dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
MR. DODD: All right. You were trying to have supreme authority and make yourself answerable only to the Fuehrer and that is what this contest was about, and that is what Document Number EC-271 referred to and this is your answer to the OKW's objection that you had too much power. This does not look like you were a little man, does it, Mr. Witness?
FUNK: Yes. I wanted to clarify the position, but later it was not clarified in that sense but in the sense that I was dependent upon the directives of the Reich Marshal. I wrote this letter in order to try to obtain a clarification, but I do not remember this letter in detail.
MR. DODD: You told Lammers. . .
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Dodd, is not this letter that you have just read the very letter which is referred to in the letter which you put to him immediately before?
MR. DODD: Yes, Sir, it is. It referred to EC-271. I am sorry, I said 271, I meant 270.
THE PRESIDENT: GB Number 649/38 is the letter you just read. Will you look at the first paragraph of EC-270; the letter referred to there, criticizing, is the Defendant Funk's letter you just read.
MR. DODD: Yes, it is, your Honor. [Turning to the witness.] My point here, Mr. Witness, is that, you see, you told the Tribunal that you really just worked for Goering; that you did not have much to say about these things, but now we find that you were writing a letter asserting your supreme authority and saying now, "it is a fact that I am really only answerable to Hitler," and, you see, those two are quite inconsistent. What have you got to say about that?
FUNK: Yes; in fact, I was never successful.
MR. DODD: Now, let us see if you were not. Now you turn another page in that document and you will find another letter from Lammers, written on 6 April 1938, and it is written to you, and he tells you that you are just right in what you understood to be your position; that you are indeed only subordinate to the Fuehrer and that he has sent a copy of your letter to both Field Marshal Goering and the Commander of the OKW. Now, what do you say about that?
FUNK: I see from this that I tried at that time to achieve that post, but in fact I never succeeded because the Reich Marshal himself stated later that he would never turn over the war economy to me. The formal authority of the Plenipotentiary for Economy was turned over to the Four Year Plan by a decree of the Fuehrer of December 1939.
MR. DODD: Well, is that your answer? Now, you also have told the Tribunal, as I understood you at least, that you really did not have much to do with the planning of any aggressive wars, and that your activities were restricted to regulating and controlling the home economy, so to speak. Now, actually on 28 January 1939, which was some months before the invasion of Poland, you were considering the use of prisoners of war, were you not?
FUNK: That I do not know.
MR. DODD: Are you sure about that? Now I will ask that you be shown another document, Number EC-488 which becomes Exhibit USA-842. This is an unsigned letter, a captured document from your files. This letter, by the way, was transmitted under the signature of Sarnow. You know who he was; he was your deputy. Now, this letter, dated 28 January 1939, says that its subject is "Re: Employment of Prisoners of War." Then it goes on to say: "Under the Reich Defense Law of 4 September 1939 I have the direction for the economic preparations for the Reich defense, except the armament industry." Then it goes on, "For the utilization of labor..." and so on. But what I want to call your attention to particularly is the sentence in the second paragraph which says: "The deficit in manpower may force me to the employment of prisoners of war as far as possible and practical. The preparations, therefore, have to be made in close co-operation with the OKW and GBW. The offices under my jurisdiction will duly participate therein." Remember that communication?
FUNK: No, I have never seen that letter, and never signed it. Put that letter belongs to the matters about which I spoke this morning. The of lice of the Plenipotentiary for Economy-moreover, I see "Plenipotentiary for War Economy" is scratched out-was continuously occupied with these things. I personally had nothing to do with it.
MR. DODD: Well now, that is rather playing with words. This was your Ministry that was making these suggestions, and your principal deputy who transmitted this letter, is that not so?
FUNK: No, that was...
MR. DODD: Now, you look up in the right hand corner of that letter and see if it doesn't say "The Plenipotentiary for the Economy," and then it gives the address and date. ~
FUNK: Yes, and it is signed "By Order: Sarnow."
MR. DODD: That is right, and he was your principal deputy, was he not?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: What was he?
FUNK: He only worked in the office of the Plenipotentiary General. My main deputy, who was in charge of those things, was Dr. Posse.
MR. DODD: Well now, at any rate...
FUNK: As I have said before, I personally had nothing to do with these things whatsoever.
MR. DODD: It has just been called to my attention that if you say the man was Posse, then in the second paragraph of that letter you can find his name: "I can refer to the statements of Generaloberst Keitel, State Secretary Dr. Posse..." At any event, important people in your organization were involved in this thing, were they not?
FUNK: Certainly.
MR. DODD: All right. Now, you remember the Document Number 3562-PS. It was introduced here as Exhibit USA-662. It is the minutes of a meeting set out by Dry Posse, your deputy, which discussed a memorandum for financing the war, and you talked about that this morning and you said that despite the fact that there is a note on it "to be shown to the Minister," you never saw it.
FUNK: I would have had to initial it if I had seen it.
MR. DODD: Well, whether that is so or not, I am not concerned about right now. Instead, I want you to listen while I read an excerpt from it. If you would like to see the document you can have it, but I hardly think it is necessary. You recall that in that document one of your memoranda is referred to, is it not? Do you remember? Do you remember that Posse said: "It was pointed out that the Plenipotentiary for Economy is primarily concerned with introducing into the legislation for war finance the idea of financing war expenditures by anticipating future revenues, to be expected after the war."
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: All right. That is an I have to ask about that document. We can move right along here. Referring again to your own direct testimony, I understood you to tell the Tribunal that insofar as the war against Poland was concerned, you did not really know until some time in August that there was even a likelihood of war with Poland; some time in August you thought it would be settled by diplomatic means. Is that not so?
FUNK: In all probability not. For months there was a latent danger of war, but even in August one could see that it was imminent.
MR. DODD: Had you been planning or making economic plans for war with Poland for more than a year before the attack on Poland? You can answer that "yes" or "no.?'
FUNK: I do not know.
MR. DODD: You mean you did not know whether you had or not? What do you mean by that kind of an answer? Do you not remember?
FUNK: I do not remember. 6 May 46.
MR. DODD: All right. Then I can help you. There is a Document, Number 3324-PS, which is already in evidence. You must remember it; it is Exhibit USA-661. That is a speech that you made. Is that not so? Do you not remember saying in it that you had been planning in secret for well over a year for the war on Poland? Do you remember that? Would you like to see the document?
FUNK: Yes, please.
MR. DODD: The sentence is here: "Although all the economic and financial departments were utilized in the tasks and work of the Four Year Plan, under the leadership of Field Marshal Goering, the war economic preparation of Germany on another branch has also been advanced in secret for years..." Do you remember that?
FUNK: Yes, now I know.
MR. DODD: You will notice it says here "for well over a year," and you went on to say this had been done under you. Is that true?
FUNK: Yes, that was the activity of the Plenipotentiary for civilian economy. I already explained that this morning.
MR. DODD: All right. Well, that is all right. I just wanted to get your answer...
FUNK: I did not speak of Poland.
MR. DODD: Well, that is the only war that was on when you made this speech. It was October 1939.
FUNK: The preparations were not made for a specific war, it was . . .
MR. DODD: All right.
FUNK: It was a general preparation.
MR. DODD: Now, actually you and Goering were even in a contest for power to some extent, were you not? Was the Goering door one of those that you were also trying to get in? You can answer that very simply. You told us you were trying to get in these various doors, but you would get up there and never get in. I now ask you if the Goering door was one of those.
FUNK: I do not believe that I was so presumptuous as to want to get Goering's post. That was far from being my intention. I had very little ambition at all.
MR. DODD: I did not say that you wanted to get his post, but you wanted to get some of his authority, did you not? Or do you not remember? Maybe that is the solution.
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: Wed, your man Posse was interrogated here by representatives of the Prosecution and the document is Number 3894-PS. He was asked these questions: "Question: What was the nature of the conflict between the Plenipotentiary for Economy and the Four Year Plan?' "Answer: 'The struggle for power.' "Question: 'The struggle for power between Funk and Goering?' "Answer: 'The struggle for power between Funk and Goering, between Funk and the Ministry for Agriculture and the Ministry of Communications.' "Question: 'How was the struggle finally resolved?' "Answer: 'Never. It was a struggle always continuing under the surface."' Then we move on: "Question: 'Did Funk, who had very important powers as Minister of Economics and later as Reichsbank President and as Chief Plenipotentiary for Economy, actually exercise these powers?' "Answer: 'Yes. But the powers of Goering were stronger.' "Question: 'Nevertheless, Funk did exercise important powers?' "Answer: Yes, as President of the Reichsbank, Minister of Economics, and Plenipotentiary for Economy."' Posse was your chief deputy, was he not?
FUNK: Yes, but Posse's position was somewhat apart. My deputy was Landfried, and in the Reichsbank, Puhl. They knew these things better than Herr Posse.
MR. DODD: Well, all right.
FUNK: They should know more about it than Posse.
MR. DODD: You do not think he really knew what he was talking about when he said you were in the struggle for power? Is that your answer?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: [Turning to the Tribunal.] That becomes Exhibit USA-843. We have not offered it up to now. Now, Mr. Witness, I want to ask you about when you first heard of the impending aback on Russia. I understood you to tell the Tribunal that you heard about it some time-I think you said-in May. Is that right? Or June?
FUNK: When Rosenberg was appointed.
MR. DODD: Well, that is what we want to know. When Rosenberg, in April of 1941, was appointed, you knew then there was to be an attack on Russia, did you not? But this morning I do not think you made that clear. Is that not right, Dr. Funk?
FUNK: Yes, I said that the reason given us for that appointment was that the Fuehrer considered a war with Russia to be possible.
MR. DODD: Yes, but you know what you told the Tribunal this morning. You said that Lammers sent you notice of Rosenberg's appointment because of your interest in improving the trade relations with Russia. That is the answer you made this morning. Now, that was not so, was it?
FUNK: Yes, Lammers has said that here, too.
MR. DODD: I do not care what Lammers said. I am asking you now if it is not a fact that you were told by Lammers because you were to co-operate with Rosenberg in making ready for the occupation of those territories after the attack began. Now you can answer that very simply. Is that not true?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: Now, we will see. You know, on another occasion you have given another answer, by the way, I might say, parenthetically. Do you remember telling the interrogator that you first heard from Hess about the impending attack on Russia? Do you remember you gave that answer at one time as the source of your first knowledge? Do you remember telling us that?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: I'll tell you about that in a minute. We will stay now on this Rosenberg business. There is a Document Number 1031-PS and it is dated 28 May 1941, which would be a lithe more than a month after the Rosenberg appointment: "Top secret notes; meeting with Reich Minister Funk." Do you know what you were talking about that day, about counterfeiting money for use in Russia and the Ukraine and the Caucasus? Do you remember it?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: You do not remember it? Well, you had better take a look at the Document. It is Number 1031-PS, which becomes Exhibit USA-844. Do you not remember the day that your Reich bank Director Wilhelm said it should not appear that you were counterfeiting so-called ruble bills for use in the occupied countries? Rosenberg was at that meeting. It is a very short memorandum. Have you read it? Oh, it is on Page 4, I think, of the document that you have; I am sorry. Do you find it? It starts out: "In the Ukraine and the Caucasus, however, it would become necessary to maintain the present currency, the ruble..." and so on. You were talking about money problems in the territory that you expected to occupy, and that was, well, about a month before the attack and about a month after Rosenberg's appointment, was it not? Can you not give me an answer?
FUNK: I have not found the passage yet. Yes, if these countries were conquered, it was necessary to deal with these questions.
MR. DODD: The point is that certainly by that time you knew about the impending attack on the countries that had to be conquered, did you not?
FUNK: I knew nothing of an attack. I only knew of an imminent danger of war.
MR. DODD: Well, all right, you have it your way. The important thing is that you were talking about using money in the Ukraine and in the Caucasus, and it happened about a month later.
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: All right. There are quite a few questions I want to ask. I would like to close this examination before the adjournment time is due. Do you have anything you want to say to that? I only offered to show you that you had knowledge about the impending attack. You knew that something was going to happen in the East. That is all I wanted to ask. I think you will agree with that, will you not?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: All right.
FUNK: Since the appointment of Rosenberg-and I explained that quite clearly this morning-I knew that a war with Russia was threatening.
MR. DODD: We are all in agreement. We do not need to go further. I understood you to say this morning that you did not know. That is all right. I misunderstood you then. I now understand you to say that you did know it.
FUNK: I said quite clearly this morning that I was informed that the Fuehrer was expecting a war with Russia, but I am not sure about this document, as to who has written it.
MR. DODD: Well, I do not know either. I can simply tell you that it was captured, among other documents, from Rosenberg's files. I cannot tell you anything more about it. I think we can talk about something else, if you will permit me. I really do not think there is any need to go on with it.
FUNK: Yes, but it is important insofar as these things about the ruble have been attributed to me.
MR. DODD: I will say it is, too.
FUNK: It says here that I said that the use of the Reichskreditkassenscheine and the determining of the rate of exchange involved considerable danger. In other words, I was very doubtful in regard to the proposals made in this respect.
MR. DODD: All right. I am glad to have your observations about it. Now, I want to talk to you a little bit about when you took over the Reichsbank. Posse was your principal deputy in your Ministry of Economics, was he not?
FUNK: Landfried was my main deputy.
MR. DODD: And by the way, he was at the same meeting that we have just been talking about. Who was your principal assistant in the Reichsbank?
FUNK: Puhl.
MR. DODD: He was a holdover from the Schacht days, was he not?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: Did you induce him to remain? Did you ask him to remain?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: You said that you selected your personnel. That is what you told the Tribunal this morning.
FUNK: No. Puhl remained and also Kretschmann and Wilhelm.
MR. DODD: I am not interested in going through your roster of personnel. I am only asking-and I will tell you the purpose. Puhl was a reliable banking man, was he not? He was well known in the international banking circles. He had been offered a position in the Chase Bank in New York at one time, did you know that?
FUNK: No, I did not know that.
MR. DODD: Well, it is true. In any event, he was quite a man, and he is a reliable man, is he not?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: You asked for him as a witness, did you not?
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: And you wanted him to come here because you believe him and you know he...
FUNK: Yes.
MR. DODD: Now, I want to talk a little bit about the gold in the Reichsbank. How much gold did you have on hand at the end of the year 1941, roughly? Do not give me a long story about it, because I am not too much interested. I am merely trying to find out if you were short on gold in 1941.
FUNK: The gold reserve which I took over amounted to about 500 million Reichsmark when I received the post of Schacht.
MR. DODD: Well, all right.
FUNK: It was increased in any substantial manner only by the Belgian gold, as far as I know,
MR. DODD: That is really-it is interesting to hear all about it, but I have another purpose in mind. From whence did you obtain gold after you took over? Where did you get any new gold reserves from?
FUNK: Only by changing foreign currency into gold, and then, after I took over the post, we got in addition the gold reserve of the Czech National Bank. But we mainly increased our reserve through the Belgian gold.
MR. DODD: All right. Now, of course, gold became very important to you as a matter of payment in foreign exchange. You had to pay off in gold along in 1942 and 1943, did you not? Is that so?
FUNK: It was very difficult to pay in gold.
MR. DODD: I know it was.
FUNK: Because the countries with which we still had business relations introduced gold embargoes. Sweden refused to accept gold at all. Only in Switzerland could we still do business through changing gold into foreign currency.
MR. DODD: I think you have established that you had to use gold as foreign exchange in 1942 and 1943 and that is all I wanted to know. When did you start to do business with the SS, Mr. Funk?
FUNK: Business with the SS? I have never done that.
MR. DODD: Yes, sir, business with the SS. Are you sure about that? I want you to take this very seriously. It is about the end of your examination, and it is very important to you. I ask you again, when did you start to do business with the SS?
FUNK: I never started business with the SS. I can only repeat what I said in the preliminary interrogation. Puhl one day informed me that a deposit had been received from the SS. First I assumed that it was a regular deposit, that is, a deposit which remained locked and which was of no further concern to us, but then Puhl told me later that these deposits of the SS should be used by the Reichsbank. I assumed they consisted of gold coins and foreign currency, but principally gold coins, which every German citizen had had to turn in as it was, and which were taken from inmates of concentration camps and turned over to the Reichsbank. Valuables which had been taken from the inmates of concentration camps did Not go to the Reichsbank but, as we have several times heard here, to the Reich Minister of Finance, that is...
MR. DODD: Just a minute. Were you in the habit of having gold teeth deposited in the Reichsbank?
FUNK: No.
MR. DODD: But you did have it from the SS, did you not?
FUNK: I do not know.
MR. DODD: You do not know? Well, now, if Your Honor please, we have a very brief film, and I think we can show it before we adjourn, and I would like to show it to the witness before I examine him further on this gold business in the Reichsbank. It is a picture that was taken by the Allied Forces when they entered the Reichsbank, and it will show gold teeth and bridges and so on in their vaults.
FUNK: I know nothing about it.
MR. DODD: I think perhaps before I show the film I would like -I think I can do it in the time; I do want to complete this this afternoon-to read you an affidavit from this man Puhl who, you told me a few minutes ago, was a credible, well-informed man and whom you called as a witness. This affidavit is dated 3 May 1946.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, I protest against the reading of this affidavit by Herr Puhl. This affidavit most probably-I'm not sure-was taken here in Nuremberg. We do not know its contents. The Prosecution surprises us today with an affidavit of which we know nothing, and within ten minutes a dozen documents are thrown at us, of which the Prosecution asserts they are only short documents, whereas, for instance, one affidavit among them contains twelve pages, I believe. It is quite impossible for us, in the course of the extreme speed at which this examination is taking place, to follow these statements and these documents. Therefore I have to protest against the use of an affidavit of that kind at this moment.
MR. DODD: Well, this affidavit was taken at Baden Baden, Germany, on the 3rd day of May. We have been trying for a long time to put this part of this case together, and we have finally succeeded. Certainly we did not turn it over to Dr. Sauter, because we wanted to use it for just the purposes that I am trying to put it to now. And it is an affidavit of his assistant Puhl, whom he called as a witness and from whom he expects to have an interrogatory. It has to do with a very important part in this case. I might say that if we are permitted to use it, certainly Dr. Sauter will have a chance to re-examine on it and he will have all night to study it if he would like to look it over.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Dodd, are you wanting to cross-examine the witness about this document?
MR. DODD: Yes, I want to read it to him and I want to ask him a couple of questions about it. I want him to know it because it is the basis for two or three questions of cross-examination, and to impeach him for statements he has already made about the gold.
THE PRESIDENT: You may do that. But Dr. Sauter, of course, will be able, if he wishes to do so, to apply afterwards that the witness should be produced for cross-examination. And he will have time in which he can consider the affidavit and make any comments that he wants to about it.
MR. DODD: Very well, Your Honor.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, may I make just one statement? Today a case occurred where the Prosecution protested against the fact that a document was used of which the Prosecution had not previously received an English translation. The representative of the Prosecution told me he did not understand German, and therefore the document had to be translated. I am of the opinion that the Defense should get the same right as the Prosecution. If one English document after the other is thrown at me without my having the slightest idea of the contents, then I cannot answer them. Difficulties are constantly increasing. For instance, I have received documents here which contain 12 pages. One sentence is read out of such a document. The defendant is not given time to read even one single further paragraph. I myself am not given time. And in spite of that it is expected that the defendant immediately explains one single sentence taken out of the context, without having the possibility of examining the document. That, in my opinion, is asking too much.