dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
REINECKE: For the reason that there were so many cases, and also because a system of co-operation between the concentration camp commanders with the criminal detainees could be established.
THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): That is right. And how many of those 7 to 10 camps, how many commandants, were involved in these killings?
REINECKE: In practice the situation was such that practically every commander was brought under investigation and criminal proceedings were taken against five commanders in all.
THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): Five, five out of how many?
REINECKE: Altogether there were 12 commanders of concentration camps, because there were 12 large concentration camps, the so-called "Stamm" (parent) concentration camps.
THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): So out of 12 investigated you started proceedings against 5, is that right?
REINECKE: Yes, that is so.
THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): Now, you said you thought that the killings must be on a large scale. Did you find any evidence of any of the gas chambers which added to your belief that it might be a large-scale operation? You found some evidence of gas chambers?
REINECKE: The first case in which a gas chamber appeared was the case of Auschwitz. That is the case, Your Lordship, that I have just mentioned here, with reference to the detainee Eleanora Hodis.
THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): When was it that you got a report that a gas chamber was being used in Auschwitz? When?
REINECKE: That was at the end of October or the beginning of November 1944.
THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): Did you get figures of the numbers of persons who had died in these 10 concentration camps? Did you find out how many persons had died in the different camps? Did you get statistics?
REINECKE: No, Your Lordship, about that we received no information. We had to collect and look for all the material ourselves, but we had no survey.
TBE PRESIDENT: Can you remember the names of the five whom you prosecuted, the five commandants?
REINECKE: They were the Commander of Buchenwald, Koch; the Commander at Lublin, whose name I cannot remember at the moment; and the Commander of the Hertogenbosch Camp, whose name I just remember, a certain Grunwald. Further investigations were carried out against the Commander of Oranienburg, Loritz, and also against Kaindel, the later commander. The proceedings against him were discontinued, however, because proof was furnished that at the time when Kaindel was camp commander, no killings had occurred.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you prosecute Hoess? H-o-e-s-s?
REINECKE: At the end of 1944 we started proceedings against Hoess, based on the testimony of the detainee in protective custody who has just been mentioned.
THE PRESIDENT: What crime did you charge Hoess with?
REINECKE: May I please make this matter clear. Proceedings against Hoess had not advanced sufficiently to serve an indictment against him. It was still in the process of preliminary investigation. Material had to be collected first.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, you must have arrived at some decision about Hoess, surely. You must have known what crimes you were investigating. What were the crimes you were investigating against Hoess?
REINECKE: In the case of Hoess the crime of murder of unknown persons and unknown numbers of persons detained in the Concentration Camp Auschwitz was investigated.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you say that you never heard of the facts which were stated in Document EC-168, the document in which Himmler said that the number of deaths in the concentration camps must be reduced?
REINECKE: I had never seen that document before. The first time that I saw it was when it was submitted by defendants counsel here, but in the course of investigations, my judges had confirmed to me that instructions of that type were circulated in the camps and were actually observed.
THE PRESIDENT: The document, you remember, said that out of 136,000 persons in concentration camps, 70,000 had died.
REINECKE: I do not know at the moment which document you are referring to.
THE PRESIDENT: EC-168 is the document, and I wanted to know whether in the course of your investigations you found, you ascertained, those facts, namely, that 70,000 out of 136,000 had died?
REINECKE: No, such facts were not ascertained.
HERR PELCKMANN: I have no questions, Your Lordship, but I should like to be permitted to make a suggestion. This witness until the end of the war was only the deputy chief of the Main Office SS Courts. The chief was a certain Herr Breithaupt, who has since died. In the first place the heads of the commissions reported to this departmental chief, and the SS judges who carried out the investigations in the camps are still alive, and the answer to all these questions which Your Lordship and Mr. Biddle have put, can be given in detail by the witness Morgen. If I may be permitted another suggestion ...
THE PRESIDENT: But you have got some more witnesses to call, have you not? You have some more witnesses to call, have you not?
HERR PELCKMANN: During the entire Trial I have attempted to do without the witness Hinderfeld if possible. I have succeeded in putting the questions intended for witness Hinderfeld to the other witnesses I have called. If the Tribunal...
THE PRESIDENT: Well, Dr. Pelckmann. I do not understand what the object of this speech is. The witness has been examined, cross-examined, and re-examined, and examined by the Tribunal. Now he can retire and you can go on with your case.
HERR PELCKMANN: He can retire?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, the witness. can retire and the Tribunal will adjourn. [A recess was taken.]
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, I am told that I may have misunderstood what you were saying to me just before the Tribunal adjourned and that you were asking whether you might be allowed to call some other witness in place of one of the witnesses you had already applied for. Is that so?
HERR PELCKMANN: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, who is ' it you want to call?
HERR PELCKMANN: Since I know the wish of the Court to shorten the proceedings, I had endeavored to ask the other witnesses the questions which I had intended for the fifth witness. I believe I succeeded in this, but from the interest that the Tribunal took in the question of the investigation of concentration camps, I thought that it might be very expedient, and I must say that it would be in the interest of the Defense, if the judge, Dr. Morgen, mentioned by the witness Reinecke, might be examined briefly on these matters. I would be in a position to examine this witness immediately, and would no longer require the witness Hinderfeld, who was to be examined.
THE PRESIDENT: You want to examine Dr. Morgen and to give up one of the other witnesses, is that right?
HERR PELCKMANN: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Very well, the Tribunal-he has been called before the Commission, I suppose, has he not?
HERR PELCKMANN: No, Your Lordship. There are affidavits from him. May I explain briefly why I could not examine him before the Commission? On 1 July the witness arrived here in Nuremberg after I had searched for him for a long time. Up to that time the witness was in Dachau without my being able to find out about it. On I July I was very busy with the last examinations before the Commission; for example, the witness Eberstein and the witness Reinecke I examined only on 5 and 6 July before the Commission, so that I could not prepare the testimony of this witness. As a result, I was able only after the end of the activity of the Commission to prepare affidavits with him. These are, I believe, Affidavits 65 and 67, but these affidavits do not show matters as clearly as if I were to examine him now, Your Lordship, and I respectfully submit that perhaps not I but the Tribunal might examine him if the rules allow this.
THE PRESIDENT: Who is the witness you are intending to dispense with?
HERR PELCKKANN: Hinderfeld.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Elwyn Jones, what view do the Prosecution take to this application?
MAJOR JONES: I suggest, My Lord, that it is-that it might be possible for a fuller affidavit to be taken by this witness and that might possibly meet the case. But in view of the fact that the Defense are abandoning one witness, I would not press that view, but I do respectfully suggest that, in view of the time that has been taken on this organization, that an affidavit might be appropriate, particularly as Dr. Pelckmann is dealing with matters-dealing with that part of the case in which the Tribunal is especially interested.
THE PRESIDENT: What do you say to that, Dr. Pelckmann? Could you not put the same questions to this witness, and could he not incorporate into his affidavit the point you want him to? He has already had three affidavits.
HERR PELCKMANN: Certainly, Your Lordship. I have in mind the following. The Prosecution called a witness, Sievers, in order further to support their position and I think that if I want to support the testimony of the witness Reinecke by calling another witness here that might be more or less on the same basis, and by the testimony of a witness the matters of the concentration camps, the secret sphere of the concentration camp organization and the penetration of the legal authorities into it, might be cleared up more thoroughly for the Court than by an affidavit.
THE PRESIDENT: This witness of yours, is he here?
HERR PELCKMANN: He is in the witness building.
THE PRESIDENT: Were you proposing to call him next?
HERR PELCKMANN: I could do so. If the Prosecution wish to call their two witnesses first, I could interrupt, Your Lordship.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, have you any idea as to how long you will be with this witness if you do' call him?
HERR PELCKMANN: Forty-five minutes to an hour.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, then, if you wish it, and you dispense with calling the witness Dr. Hindenberg, or whatever his name is, you may call Dr. Morgen.
HERR PELCKMANN: Thank you, Your Lordship. I call the witness Dr. Morgen.
MAJOR JONES: If Your Lordship pleases, the witness is, of course, in the prison at the moment, and it might therefore be convenient to call the witness for whom Dr. Pelckmann has asked for cross-examination, who is available immediately, and no doubt the Marshal can make the necessary arrangements for the other one.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sievers, is it not?
MAJOR JONES: No, My Lord, there is a short one first, the witness Izrael Eizenberg, whose affidavit is Document Number D-939, GB-563.
THE PRESIDENT: Eisberg?
MAJOR JONES: Your Lordship, Eizenberg, it is.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Marshal, will you bring in Eizenberg and send for Morgen. [The witness Eizenberg took the stand.]
THE PRESIDENT: Will you state your full name, please.
IZRAEL EIZENBERG (Witness): Izrael Eizenberg.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you repeat this oath after me: I swear by God-the Almighty and Omniscient-that I will speak the pure truth-and will withhold and add nothing. [The witness repeated the oath.]
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down.
MAJOR JONES: Witness-I just want to put the statement to the witness, My Lord-Witness, are you Izrael Eizenberg, of 203, Reinsburgstrasse, Stuttgart?
EIZENBERG: Yes.
MAJOR JONES: Will you look at the affidavit D-939, Exhibit GB-563. Just look at it. Is that your statement?
EIZENBERG: Yes, I signed it.
MAJOR JONES: And is it true?
EIZENBERG: Yes, it is.
MAJOR JONES: Witness, I notice you have a scar on your face. Will you tell the Tribunal how it was caused?
EIZENBERG: Yes, I can tell the Tribunal. In October 1942-at the end of October 1942-I was shot at in Maidanek Camp together with many other Jews. The bullet hit my left cheek and I lay there from 9:30 in the evening until 4:30 in the morning. When people were removing the corpses, I was taken away with another man whose name was Stagel; we were the only survivors.
MAJOR JONES: And how many were killed on that occasion?
EIZENBERG: At 9:30 in the evening groups composed of about 1,000 or more people were conducted to a field. I was among them. Then they fired at us and I remained, lying on the field until 4:30 in the morning.
MAJOR JONES: Now, just answer this last question, who were the killers?
EIZENBERG: They were SS men in SS uniforms.
MAJOR JONES: I have no further questions, My Lord.
HERR PELCKMANN: Witness, I know your affidavit. As far as I can see from it, you were in Lublin, at first in Lublin. Were there SS men there too, whom you got to know?
EIZENBERG: Yes, I knew many of them. I was working in the SS staff offices as an electrician and I was there very often in order to make electrical installations.
HERR PELCKMANN: In your affidavit you have given some names-Riedel, Mohrwinkel, and Schramm.
EIZENBERG: Yes, I knew them personally.
HERR PELCKMANN: They were on this staff?
EIZENBERG: Yes, they were on the staff, and its office was located at 21 Warsaw Street.
HERR PELCKMANN: Do you also know exactly the ranks which you mentioned in your affidavit as being held by these persons?
EIZENBERG: Yes, I know them.
HERR PELCKMANN: What, for example, was Riedel?
EIZENBERG: Riedel was an Unterscharfuehrer.
HERR PELCKMANN: And Mohrwinkel?
EIZENBERG: At first he was a Rottenfuehrer and then, as a result of this action, he was promoted to Untersturmfuehrer.
HERR PELCKMANN: You just said that Riedel was an Unterscharfuehrer. In your affidavit you said he was an Oberscharfuehrer.
EIZENBERG: He had white braid on his shoulder-straps.
HERR PELCKATANN: Now, I show you a picture. Please tell me whether that is Riedel or Mohrwinkel, and what is the rank of this SS man.
EIZENBERG: This man is neither Mohrwinkel nor Riedel.
HERR PELCKMANN: And what is his rank?
EIZENBERG: It seems to me that he is a Rottenfuehrer, because there-is nothing on his shoulder-straps, and only a badge on his sleeve.
HERR PELCKMANN: Thank you. Now, I shall show you another picture. If I remember the other picture correctly, this would, also have to be a Rottenfuehrer?
EIZENBERG: I cannot tell with certainty, but the other one had on his shoulder-straps a white edge all round and here I see two white stripes on this photo,
HERR PELCKMANN: Thank you, Witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Is that all you wanted?
HERR PELCKMANN: I have no more questions, Your Lordship.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness can retire.
HERR PELCKMANN: For the information of the Tribunal, I should like to say that these photographs came from the book in Polish on the Warsaw atrocities submitted by the Prosecution yesterday, and the photographs do not show men of the Waffen-SS at all, but policemen. The witness did not notice that.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, the witness said he had never seen them before. The witness said he had never seen the man before. We do not need to argue about it. Now, who is your next witness?
HERR PELCKMANN: May I submit these pictures to the Tribunal or are they known? They are in the Polish book, in Polish, on Pages VIII, no, IX and XI. It is merely a question of uniform, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: You can certainly put them in if you think it worth while; but now will you get on with your case. Is there another witness that you are going to call before Dr. Morgen?
HERR PELCKMANN: Yes; I believe the witness Sievers was called by the Prosecution, Your Lordship. THE' PRESIDENT: Well, is he here?
THE MARSHAL: Yes, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, call him then.
THE MARSHAL: Both witnesses are here now, Your Honor, both Sievers and Morgen.
THE PRESIDENT: We will go on with Sievers now.
MAJOR JONES: Perhaps, My Lord-you did indicate, My Lord, it might be more convenient for Dr. Pelckmann to finish with his witness before Dr. Sievers.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, I do not mind. Call Dr. Morgen then. [The witness Morgen took the stand.] Will you state your full name, please?
GEORG KONRAD MORGEN (Witness): Georg Konrad Morgen.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you repeat this oath after me: I swear by God-the Almighty and Omniscient-that I will speak the pure truth-and will withhold and add nothing. [The witness repeated the oath.]
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down.
HERR PELCKMANN: Witness, in view of the importance of your testimony, I will first ask you in detail about your person. Were you an SS judge of the Reserve?
MORGEN: Yes.
HERR PELCKMANN: Please speak slowly and pause after each question. What training did you have?
MORGEN: I studied law at the Universities of Frankfurt on the Main, Rome, Berlin; at the "Acad6mie de Droit International" at 'The Hague and the "Institute for World Economy and Ocean Traffic" in Kiel. I passed the first examination and the State law examination. Before the war I was a judge at the Landgericht in Stettin.
HERR PELCKMANN: Were you a specialist in criminology and in criminal law?
MORGEN: No, I had specialized in international law, but later, during the war, when I had to deal with criminal matters and penal law, I did special work in that field.
HERR PELCKMANN: How did you come to the SS?
MORGEN: I was drafted compulsorily into the General SS. In 1933, 1 belonged to the Reich Board for Youth Training, whose ,students' group was completely incorporated into the General SS. At the beginning of the war I was drafted into the Waffen-SS.
HERR PELCKMANN: What rank did you have there?
MORGEN: In the General SS I was Staffelanwarter and SS Rottenfuehrer. In the Waffen-SS I was in the end Sturmbannfuehrer of the Reserve.
HERR PELCKMANN: What example can you give that you did not believe you were joining a conspiracy when you entered the SS-very briefly; please.
MORGEN: In 1936 I published a book on War Propaganda and the Prevention of War. This book, at a time when war was threatening, showed ways and means to prevent war and to forestall the incitement to hostility between nations. The book was examined by the Party and published. Therefore, I could not suppose that the SS or the policy of the Reich Government was directed toward war.
HERR PELCKMANN: How did you come to make investigations in the concentration camps?
MORGEN: At the order of the Reichsfuehrer SS, and due to my special abilities in criminology, I was detailed by the Main Office SS Courts to the Reich Criminal Police Department in Berlin, which was equivalent to a transfer. Shortly after I arrived there, I was given an assignment to investigate a case of corruption in Weimar. The accused was a member of the concentration camp of Weimar-Buchenwald. The investigations soon led to the person of the former Commander Koch and many of his subordinates, and beyond that they affected a number of other concentration camps. When these investigations became more extensive, I received full authority from the Reichsfuehrer SS to engage generally in such investigations in concentration camps.
HERR PELCKMANN: Why was a special power of attorney from the Reichsfuehrer necessary?
MORGEN: For the guards of the concentration camps, the SS and Police courts were competent; that is, in each case the local court in whose district the concentration camp was located. For that reason, because of the limited jurisdiction of its judge, the court was not able to act outside its own district. In these investigations and their extensive ramifications it was important to be able to work in various districts. Besides that, it was necessary to use specialists in criminal investigation, in other words, the Criminal Police. The Criminal Police however could not carry on any investigation directly with the troops, and only by combining juridical and Criminal Police activities was it possible to clear this up, and for this purpose I was given this special power of attorney by the Reichsfuehrer.
HERR PELCKMANN: Now, how extensive did these investigations become? You can be brief because the witness Reinecke answered this point in part.
MORGEN: I investigated Weimar-Buchenwald, Lublin, Auschwitz, Sachsenhausen, Oranienburg, Hertogenbosch, Krakow; Plaszow, Warsaw, and the Concentration Camp Dachau. And others were investigated after my time.
HERR PELCKMANN: How many cases did you investigate? How many sentences were passed? How many death sentences?
MORGEN: I investigated about 800 cases, that is, about 800 documents, and one document would affect several cases. About 200 were tried during my activity. Five concentration camp commanders were arrested by me personally. Two were shot after being tried.
HERR PELCKMANN: You had them shot?
MORGEN: Yes. Apart from the commanders, there were numerous other death sentences against Fuehrer and Unterfuehrer.
HERR PELCKMANN: Did you have any opportunity of gaining personal insight into the conditions in concentration camps?
MORGEN: Yes, because I had authority to visit concentration camps. Only a very few persons had this permission. Before beginning an investigation, I examined the concentration camp in question in all its details very closely, inspecting especially those arrangements which seemed particularly important to me. I visited them repeatedly and without notice. I was working mostly in Buchenwald itself for 8 months and have lived there. I was in Dachau for one or two months.
HERR PELCKMANN: Since so many visitors to concentration camps say they were deceived, do you consider it possible that you, too, were a victim of such deceit?
MORGEN: I have just pointed out that I was not a mere visitor to a concentration camp but I had settled down there for a long residence, I might almost say I established myself there. It is almost impossible to be deceived for such a long time. In addition, the commissions from the Reich Criminal Police Department worked under my instructions, and I placed them directly in the concentration camps themselves. I do not mean to say that in spite of these very intensive efforts I was able to learn of all the crimes, but I believe that there was no deception in regard to what I did learn.
HERR PELCKMANN: Did you gain the impression, and at what time, that the concentration camps were places for the extermination of human beings?
MORGEN: I did not gain this impression. A concentration camp is not a place for the extermination of human beings. I must say that my first visit to a concentration camp-I mentioned the first one was Weimar-Buchenwald-was a great surprise to me. The camp is situated on wooded heights, with a wonderful view. The installations were clean and freshly painted. There was much lawn and flowers. The prisoners were healthy, normally fed, sun-tanned, working ...
PRESIDENT: When are you speaking of? When are you speaking of?
MORGEN: I am speaking of the beginning of my investigations in July 1943.
HERR PELCKMANN: What crimes did you discover?
MORGEN: Pardon me, I had not-may I continue?
HERR PELCKMANN: Please, be more brief.
MORGEN: The installations of the camp were in good order, especially the hospital. The camp authorities, under the Commander Diester, aimed at providing the prisoners with an existence worthy of human beings. They had regular mail service. They had a large camp library, even books in foreign languages. They had variety shows, motion pictures, sporting contests and even had a brothel. Nearly all the other concentration camps were similar to Buchenwald.
PRESIDENT: What was it they even had?
MORGEN: A brothel.
HERR PELCKMANN: What crimes did you learn about?
MORGEN: As I said before, the investigations were based on a suspicion of corrupt practices. In time however, I was obliged to come to the conclusion that besides those crimes, killings had also occurred.
HERR PELCKMANN: How did you reach the suspicion that killings had occurred?