dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
VON NEURATH: There was no question at all of a limitation of the cultural autonomy of the Czechs, aside from the university problem. In Prague a great number of large Czech theaters of every description were open all the time, especially the Czech opera and several theaters. On the other hand there was only one permanent German theater with daily performances. There was a constant production of many Czech plays and operas, and the same applied to music. The well-known Czech Philharmonic Orchestra at Prague played Czech music primarily and was absolutely independent regarding its programs.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. LUDINGHAUSEN, we don't need details. The defendant says that theaters and cinema theaters were allowed and there was only one German theater. We don't want any further details about it.
DR. LUDINGHAUSEN: Very well, Mr. President. I asked about these matters only because they are rather extensively dealt with in the Indictment. [Turning to the defendant.] And what about the film industry, Herr Von Neurath?
VON NEURATH: The same applied to the movie industry. It was even especially active.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Now, I should like to turn to the alleged suppression of religious freedom, of which you are being accused in the Czech indictment. The Czech indictment speaks of a wave of persecution which inundated the churches and which started immediately when the German troops marched in to occupy the country. What about that?
VON NEURATH: A systematic persecution of the churches is quite out of the question. The population was quite free as concerns public worship, and I certainly would not have tolerated any restrictions along this line. The former Under State Secretary Von Burgsdorff has testified to that point here already. It may be true that in individual cases pilgrimages or certain religious processions were prohibited by the Police, even though I personally do not remember it clearly. But that took place only because certain pilgrimages, consisting of many thousands of people, were exploited as political demonstrations at which anti-German speeches were made, At any rate, that had actually occurred several times and had been brought to my knowledge. It is true that a number of clerics were arrested in connection with the action at the beginning of the war, which we have already mentioned here. But these arrests did not take place because the men were clerics but because they were active political opponents or people who were political suspects. In cases of this nature I made special efforts to have these people released. My personal connections with the archbishop of Prague were absolutely correct and amicable. He and the archbishop of Olmutz specifically thanked me for my intervention on behalf of the Church, as I remember distinctly. I prevented any measure against the public worship of the Jews. Every synagogue was open to the time I left in the autumn of 1941.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: In connection with the last point, I should like to put one more question about the position of Jews in the Protectorate. What can you tell us about it?
VON NEURATH: The legal position of the Jews had to be coordinated with the position of the Jews in the Reich, according to instructions from Berlin. The directives with regard to this had been sent to me already in' April of 1939. Through all sorts of inquiries addressed to Berlin, I tried and succeeded in not having the laws go into effect until June 1939, so as to give the Jews the opportunity to prepare themselves for the imminent introduction of these laws. The so-called Nuremberg Laws were introduced into the Protectorate, too, at that time. Thereby- the Jews were removed from public life and from leading positions in the economic life. However, arrests on a large scale did not take place. There were also no excesses against Jews, except in a few single instances. The camp at Theresienstadt was not erected until long after my time of office, and I prevented the erection of other concentration camps in the Protectorate, too.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: The Czech report accuses you of personally carrying through anti-Jewish measures. They maintain that, first of all, you charged the Czech Government, that is to say the autonomous government, with the carrying through of the anti-Jewish laws and that when Ministerprasident Elias refused to do so, you personally took the necessary steps.
VON NEURATH: As I said just now, the introduction of the anti-Jewish laws came about on Hitler's direct order, that is to say through the competent authorities in Berlin. The representation...
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Von LUDINGHAUSEN, why do you want to go over all this again? The defendant has given the evidence that he, succeeded in putting off the laws until June 1939 and that then the Nuremberg Laws were introduced. He has given us the various qualifications which he said he made; and then you read him the Czech report and try to get him to go over it all again, it seems to me. It is now quarter past 11. .DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: All right, then, I shall consider the first question sufficiently answered and we shall not deal with the matter of confiscation either. [Turning to the defendant.] The Czech report further accuses you of the dissolution of the organizations of the YMCA and YWCA, and the confiscation of their property in favor of German organizations.
VON NEURATH: I must admit that I do not recall these confiscations at all. If this dissolution and confiscation took place before I left, it must have been a police measure only.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: The Czech report further mentions the destruction of Czech economic life and the systematic plundering of Czech stocks of raw materials and accuses you in that regard. What are the facts with regard to that?
VON NEURATH: With the establishment of the Protectorate, the Czech economy almost automatically was incorporated into the German economy. The export trade, for which Czech industries had worked to a considerable degree, was stopped for the duration of the war, that is to say, it had to trade with the Reich. The Czech heavy industries, especially the Skoda Works and the arms industry, as direct war industries, were taken over to supplement German armaments production by the Delegate for the Four Year Plan. At the beginning I tried especially to avoid selling out of the Protectorate, which would have been hard on the population. An effective means for that purpose was the maintenance of the customs boundaries which existed between Czechoslovakia and Germany. After heated conflicts with the Berlin economic departments, I succeeded in having the customs barrier maintained up to October 1940, for another year and a half, though it had already been rescinded on 16 March 1939. I believe I am also accused of having been responsible for the removal of raw materials and the like. In that connection I should like to say that the office of the Delegate for the Four Year Plan was the only authority which could take such measures.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: In this connection I should like to refer to the decree which has already been submitted, the decree dated 16 March 1939, Number Neurath-144 of my Document Book Number 5. In this decree I should like to call special attention to Articles 9 and 10. [Turning to the defendant.] You are further charged with and accused of the fact that the rate of exchange of Czech kronen to marks was established as 10 to l, for in this way the buying out of Czechoslovakian goods was said to have been favored. Are you responsible for the establishing of this rate?
VON NEURATH: No. In the decree of 16 March 1939 dealing with the establishment of the Protectorate-a decree in the drafting of which I did not take part in any way-it was already stipulated that the rate of exchange would be determined by the Reich Government. As far as I know, the same rate was the customary one at the stock exchange and in trade before the incorporation of the Sudetenland into the Reich as well as afterwards. An official rate had to be determined, of course, and this was done through the decree issued by the authorities in Berlin.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: In connection with the decree dated 16 March 1939, which was just mentioned and which is to be found under Number Neurath-144 of my Document Book Number 5, I should like to call your attention especially to Article 10 which sets forth: "The ratio of the two currencies, the Czechoslovakian and the German, to each other will be determined by the Reich Government." [Turning to the defendant.] The Czech report further accuses you of the fact that railroad rails allegedly were removed and taken to Germany. Do you know anything about this matter?
VON NEURATH: I know nothing about this matter and I think this is certainly an error. I know only that in the year 1940 there were negotiations between the German Reich railroads and the Czech State railroads concerning the borrowing of railroad cars and of engines against remuneration. But the stipulation in this case was that this rolling stock could be spared by the transport system in the Protectorate. Aside from that, the railroads in the Protectorate were not under my supervision; but they were directly subordinate to the Transportation Ministry in Berlin.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: I should like to refer to Article 8 of the decree which I have just mentioned, a decree which is found under Number Neurath-144 of my Document Book 5. [Turning to the defendant.] It is further asserted that the Reich Commissioner at the Prague National Bank stopped all payments for abroad and confiscated all the stocks of gold and of foreign currencies of the National Bank. Did you have anything to do with this matter?
VON NEURATH: I had nothing at all to do with these matters. The Reich Commissioner for the Prague National Bank was appointed directly by the Reichsbank in Berlin, or rather by the Ministry of Finance; and he got his orders from them.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: The Czech report states further that you are to be blamed, or are to be made coresponsible, for the alleged confiscation of the Czech banks and industrial undertakings by the German economy.
VON NEURATH: The German banks, and to an extent the German industries as well, had a real interest in getting a firm foothold in the economic life of the Protectorate. However, this was something which applied long before the establishment of the Protectorate. Therefore it was not strange that the big German banks, in particular, used the opportunity to acquire Czech stocks and securities; and in this way the controlling interest in two Czech banks together with their industrial holdings were transferred to German hands in a manner which was economically quite correct. I believe the Union Bank is mentioned in the Czech report, a bank which was taken over by the Deutsche Bank; and I know in this case quite coincidentally that the initiative did not originate on the German side, but rather from the Czech Union Bank itself. But neither I nor my agencies tried to foster this development in any way. Apart from that all these enterprises had Czech general directors, and in very few cases were German officials taken in. By far the largest part of all industrial enterprises remained purely Czech as before.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: What was the situation with regard to the alleged coercive measures which the Prosecution maintains were used against Czech agriculture? Can you tell something about this and about your attitude and the measures you took?
VON NEURATH: This chapter belongs to the whole scheme of plans by the Party and SS, relative to Germanization, which have already been mentioned. The instrument of this German settlement policy was to be the Czech Land Office (Bodenamt), which in itself was a Czech office, which was a survival of the former Czech office for agrarian reform. Himmler first of all assigned to the Land Office an SS Fuehrer as its provisional leader.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal does not want to know all the details about this. The Czech report apparently alleges coercion in agriculture. The defendant says that it was due, if any, to the Party and the SS; and he had nothing to do with it. What is the object of his giving us all these details about the history of agriculture in Czechoslovakia? You must realize the Tribunal...
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Yes, but I should like to point out one thing only. [Turning to the defendant.] The Land Office, which was acting in the interests of National Socialism, was restaffed by you with new personnel after a long struggle. I considered it important to clarify this too. Mr. President, I should like to make a general remark. I said yesterday that my examination would last another hour. But yesterday, when I left the session, I found another document book to the indictment which has forced me to deal in greater detail with individual questions here. And for this reason, a reason which I could not foresee, I will have to take additional time.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, the Tribunal has not taken up the question of time at the moment. Why do you have to go into some questions of-I do not know what the word is, "Allot"-to do with agriculture? Why do you want to go into that? He, the defendant, said he had nothing to do with it.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Yes, in a way he was connected with it, Mr. President, insofar as these agricultural efforts were made through the Land Office.
THE PRESIDENT: If he was connected with it let him explain it. I thought he said the Party and the SS did it.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Yes, but via the Land Office, and he prevented this. Perhaps you can tell us briefly about this, Herr Von Neurath.
VON NEURATH: I believe that according to the statements of the President of the Court, that is hardly necessary. As a matter of fact, I had no direct connection with the Land Office. I only succeeded in having a rather unpleasant leader of this office, a member of the SS, removed.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: During your period of office as Reich Protector, was there any compulsory transportation of workers to the Reich?
VON NEURATH: No. In this connection I shall also be brief. Compulsory labor did not exist at all while I was in the Protectorate. There was an emergency service law which was issued by the Protectorate Government and applied to younger men who were employed in urgently needed work in the public interest in the Protectorate. Compulsory deportations of workers to the Reich did not occur in my time. On the contrary, many young people reported voluntarily for work in Germany, because labor conditions and wages were better in the Reich than in the Protectorate at that time.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: How did your resignation from office-and this is my last question-your leaving your office as Reich Protector come about?
VON NEURATH: First of all I should like to tell you why I remained as long as I did, in spite of all these occurrences and difficulties. The reason for it was that I was convinced, and I am still convinced today, that I had to stay as long as I could reconcile this with my conscience, in order to prevent this country, which was entrusted to Germany, from coming under the definite domination of the SS. Everything that happened to the country after my departure in 1941 I had actually prevented through my presence; and even if my work was ever so much limited, I believe that by remaining I not only rendered a service to my own country but to the Czech people as well, and under the same circumstances I would not act differently even today. Apart from this I believed' that in time of war, especially, I should leave such a difficult and responsible office only in case of the utmost necessity. The crew of a ship does not go below deck and fold their hands in their laps if the ship is in danger. That I could not comply with the wishes of the Czechs 100 percent is something that will be understood by everybody who had to deal with politics in a practical and not merely theoretical way. And so I believe that by my persevering in of lice I prevented much' of the misery which befell the Czech people after I left. This opinion vitas also shared by a large number of the Czech population, as I could gather from the numerous letters which were addressed to me by the Czech people later on.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: And how did it happen that you left, that you resigned from your office?
VON NEURATH: On 23 September 1941 I received a telephone call from Hitler asking me to come to headquarters immediately. There he told me that I was being too mild with the Czechs and that this state of affairs could not be continued. He told me that he had decided to adopt severe measures against the Czech resistance movement and that for this purpose the notorious Obergruppenfuehrer Heydrich would be sent to Prague. I did everything in my power to dissuade him from this but was not successful. Thereupon I asked permission to resign, since I could never be responsible for any activity of Heydrich's in Prague. Hitler refused my resignation but permitted me to go on leave. I flew back to Prague and on the following day I continued my journey home. At the same hour that I left Prague, Heydrich arrived. Then I wrote to Hitler from my home and again asked to resign immediately. When in spite of a reminder I did not receive any answer I repeated my request, and at the same time I explained that under no circumstances would I return to Prague, that I had dissolved my office and I refused to act as Reich Protector from now on. I was not officially relieved from my office until October 1943.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, I should like to conclude my examination of the defendant with a brief quotation from the Czech indictment.
THE PRESIDENT: Just one moment, was your going on leave made public?
VON NEURATH: Yes. '
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Yes, I was just going to quote that, Mr. President. In that text of the Czech indictment it says: "When at last in the second half of September the underground Czech revolt committees, with the help of the BBC, began a successful boycott campaign against the German controlled press, the German authorities seized the opportunity to aim a heavy blow at the Czech population. On 27 September 1941 radio station Prague gave out the following report: "'Reich Minister Baron von Neurath, Reich Protector of Bohemia and Moravia, has found it necessary to ask the Fuehrer for a long leave in order to restore his impaired health."' Then in conclusion it says: "Under these circumstances the Fuehrer agreed to the request of the Reich Protector and charged SS Obergruppenfuehrer Heydrich with the direction of the office of Reich Protector of Bohemia and Moravia during the time of the illness of Reich Minister Von Neurath." With this my examination is ended, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: From September 1941 until October 1943, did you live on your own estates, or what?
VON NEURATH: Yes, Mr. President
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: My examination is over.
THE PRESIDENT: The Court will adjourn now. [A recess was taken.]
THE PRESIDENT: Do any of the defendants' counsel wish to ask the witness any questions?
DR. EGON KUBUSCHOK (Counsel for Defendant Von Papen): Is it known to you that immediately before Germany left the League of Nations, Von Papen followed Hitler to Munich to persuade him to remain in the League of Nations?
VON NEURATH: Yes, that is known to me. In fact, I myself induced him to do so.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: During the time he was Vice Chancellor in 1933 and 1934, did Von Papen protest in the Cabinet against unfriendly acts of the German policy toward Austria, as for instance, the introduction of the 1,000-mark embargo?
VON NEURATH: Yes, that line was continuously followed by him and by other ministers and naturally by myself, too.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Did Hitler mention to you that this attitude of Papen's in the Austrian problem induced him to transfer the mission in Vienna to Papen after the murder of Dollfuss?
VON NEURATH: Yes, Hitler did speak about that.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Did Hitler discuss with you the reasons why he addressed the letter of 26 July 1934 to Papen, announcing that Papen would be sent to Austria?
VON NEURATH: Yes, but the way it happened was as follows: When Hitler told me about his intention to send Papen to Vienna, reminded him that, in order to give the latter any weight, he should first of all, after the events of 30 June, clear up the relationship between himself, Hitler, and Papen, and clear it up publicly. This letter which was read here in Court can be traced to that.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: In 1937 you paid a visit to the Austrian Government which led to demonstrations. Were you and Von Papen surprised by these demonstrations, and did you agree with them?
VON NEURATH: The demonstrations were a complete surprise to me, especially because of their tremendous size. They certainly did not please me, because they cast a certain shadow on the discussions between Herr Von Schuschnigg and myself.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Then, the last question: Before Schleicher's Government was formed there was a meeting of the Cabinet on 2 December 1932. The day before Papen had been given orders by Hindenburg to send the Parliament on leave and to form a new government. Is it correct that Papen reported on this matter to the Cabinet and that Schleicher, as Reichswehrminister, made a statement to the effect that this would lead to civil war and that the forces of the Wehrmacht were too weak to cope with such a civil war?
VON NEURATH: Yes, I remember this occurrence very accurately. We were all somewhat surprised at Schleicher's statement. However it was so well founded that we had to accept it as true.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: Do any other defendants' counsel wish to ask any questions? [There was no response.] The Prosecution?
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE (Deputy Chief Prosecutor for the United Kingdom): At the time about which Dr. Kubuschok has just been asking you, in the second half of 1932, did you know that President Von Hindenburg, the Defendant Von Papen, and General Von Schleicher were discussing and considering very hard what would be the best method of dealing with the Nazi Party?
VON NEURATH: No. As I have already testified, I had no connection in that respect. I knew absolutely nothing about all these negotiations.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I want to make it clear, I am not suggesting you were in the negotiations. But didn't you know that the problem as to how to deal with the Nazi Party was exercising the minds of the President and the Defendant Von Papen and General Von Schleicher; that it was a very urgent problem in their minds?
VON NEURATH: Yes, I knew that.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: And again, do not think, Defendant, I am suggesting that you were in the negotiations. You may take it-well, I will make all the suggestions perfectly clear. You knew that in the end the method which commended itself to President Von Hindenburg, to the Defendant Von Papen, and to General Von Schleicher was that there should be a government with Hitler as Chancellor, but well brigaded by conservative elements, in harness with conservative elements; that was the plan that was ultimately resolved on? You knew that much, I suppose, didn't you?
VON NEURATH: Yes, but the plan was not quite like that. At that time, the time you are talking about, there was only mention of the fact that we were obliged to bring the Nazi Party into the Government.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: But eventually, when the Nazi Party came in, on 30 January 1933, the plan was that it would be well harnessed to conservative elements. That was the idea in President Von Hindenburg's mind, was it not?
VON NEURATH: Yes.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: And you were one of the conservative and stable elements, if I understand you rightly; isn't that so?