dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Nevertheless, there was some reason why this was done. Was it because the gas chambers were overworked?
SHMAGLEVSKAYA: It is very difficult to answer this question. We don't know whether they wanted to economize on the gas or whether there was no room in the gas chambers. I should also add that it is impossible to determine the number of these children -- like that of the Jews -- because they were driven directly to the crematory, were not registered, were not tattooed, and very often were not even counted. We, the internees, often tried to ascertain the number of people who perished in gas chambers; but our estimates of the number of children executed could only be based on the number of children's prams which were brought to the storerooms. Sometimes there were hundreds of these carriages, but sometimes they sent thousands.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: In one day?
SHMAGLEVSKAYA: Not always the same. There were days when the gas chambers worked from early morning until late at night. I should also like to tell you about the children -- and their number is large -- who were interned in concentration camps. At the beginning of 1943 Polish children from Zamoishevna arrived at the concentration camp with their parents. At the same time Russian children from territories occupied by the Germans began to arrive. The Jewish children were added to these. In smaller numbers, one could also meet Italian children in the concentration camp. The conditions were as difficult for the children as for adults; perhaps even more onerous. These children didn't receive any parcels because there was no one to send them. Red Cross packages never reached the internees. In 1944 a great number of Italian and French children arrived at the concentration camp. All these children suffered from skin diseases, lymphatic boils, and malnutrition; they were badly clad, often without shoes, and had no possibility of washing themselves. During the Warsaw uprising captured children from Warsaw were brought to the concentration camp. The youngest of the children was a little 6-year-old boy. The children were quartered in special barracks. When the systematic deportation of internees from Birkenau to the interior of Germany commenced, these children were used for heavy labor. At the same time there arrived in the concentration camps the children of Hungarian Jews, who had to work together with the children who were brought after the Warsaw uprising. These children worked with two carts which they had to pull themselves to transport coal, iron machines, wood for floors, and other heavy things from one camp to the other. They also labored at dismantling barracks during the liquidation of the camp. These children remained in the concentration camp until the very end. In January 1945 they were evacuated and had to march to Germany on foot under conditions as difficult as those of the front, under an SS guard, without food, covering about 30 kilometers a day.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: During this march the children died of exhaustion?
SHMAGLEVSKAYA: I wasn't in the group where there were children, as I managed to escape on the second day after this evacuation march. I should also like to add a few words regarding the methods of demoralization of the people who were interned in concentration camps. Everything that we had to suffer was the result of a whole system for degrading human beings. The concentration camp cars in which the internees were transported had previously been used for cattle. When the transports were about to move the cars were nailed shut. In each one of these cars there was a great number of people. The convoy of SS men never considered that human beings have physical needs. Some of these people happened to have necessary pots with them, and they often had to use them for physical needs. For some time I worked at the store, where kitchen utensils of internees were brought.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Do you mean that you worked in the warehouse where the belongings of these who were murdered were brought. Did I understand you correctly?
SHMAGLEVSKAYA: No, only the kitchen utensils of people who arrived at the concentration camps were brought to this warehouse.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: These things were taken away from them?
SHMAGLEVSKAYA: What I want to say is that in some cases the kitchen utensils and pots contained remains of food, and in others there was human excrement. Each of the workers received a pail of water, and had to wash a great number of these kitchen utensils during one half of the day. These kitchen utensils, which were sometimes very badly washed, were given to people who had just arrived at the concentration camp. From these pots and pans they had to eat, so that often they caught dysentery and other diseases from the first day.
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Smirnov, I don't think the Tribunal wants quite so much of the detail with reference of these domestic matters.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: The witness was called here with a view to describing the attitude of the Germans toward the children in the camps.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you keep her to the part of her testimony which you wish to bring out?
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Tell me, Witness, can you add anything else to your description of the attitude of the Germans towards the children in the camp? Have you already told us about all of the facts which you know regarding this question?
SHMAGLEVSKAYA: I should like to say that the children, as well as the adults, were also subjected to the system of demoralization and degradation through famine. Often starvation caused the children to look for potato peels in garbage heaps.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Tell me, Witness, do you certify in your testimony, that sometimes the number of carriages remaining after the murder of the children amounted to a thousand per day?
SHMAGLEVSKAYA: Yes, sometimes there were such days.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Mr. President, I have no further question to ask of the witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Do any of the chief prosecutors with to ask any questions? [There was no response.] Do any of the defendants' counsel wish to ask any questions? [There was no response.] Then the witness can retire. [The witness left the stand.]
MR.COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Mr. President, I should like to take up the next section of my presentation which deals with the organization, by German fascism, of secret centers for the extermination of people. These cannot even be considered concentration camps because the human beings in these places rarely survived more than 10 minutes or 2 hours at the most. Out of all these terrible centers, organized by the German fascists, I would submit to the Tribunal evidence on two such places, that is to say, on Kwelmno center (Kwelmno is a village in Poland) and on the Treblinka Camp. In connection with this I would ask the Tribunal to summon one witness, whose testimony is interesting, because he can be considered a person who returned from "the other world," for the road 27 Feb. 46 . to Treblinka was called by the German executors themselves "The Road to Heaven." I am speaking of the witness Rajzman, a Polish national, and I beg the Tribunal's permission to bring this witness here for examination.
THE PRESIDENT: It is just a quarter to 1 now, so we had better have this witness at 2 o'clock. We will adjourn now. [The Tribunal recessed until 1400 hours.] Afternoon Session
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal has been informed that the witness who was referred to yesterday, Wielen, is in a prisoner-of-war camp or in prison near London, England; and he can, therefore, be brought over here to be examined at short notice. The Tribunal, therefore, wishes defendants' counsel to make up their minds whether they wish Colonel Westhoff and this man Wielen to be brought here during the Prosecution's case for them to cross-examine those witnesses or whether they prefer that they should be brought when the defendants are presenting their case. But, as I have stated with reference to all witnesses, they can only be called once. If they are examined as part of the Prosecution's case, then all the defendants must exercise their rights, if they wish to do so, of interrogating the witnesses at that time. If, on the other hand, the defendants' counsel decide that they would prefer that these witnesses should be called during the defendants' case, then similarly, the witnesses will be called only once, and the right of examining them must then be exercised. At the same time, the statement or the report which was presented yesterday and which the Tribunal ruled was admissible, will be read in the course of the Prosecution's case at such time as the Prosecution decide.
DR. NELTE: Mr. President, may I be allowed to postpone making a statement until after discussion with my colleagues. I hope this will be possible in the course of the afternoon.
THE PRESIDENT: I understand you want to consult the other defendants' counsel before you let us know. Very well; you will let us know at your convenience. Go on, Colonel Smirnov.
MR.COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Mr. President, I should like to proceed with the interrogation of the witness. [The witness Rajzman took the stand.]
THE PRESIDENT: What is your name?
SAMUEL RAJZMAN (Witness): Rajzman, Samuel.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you repeat this oath after me: I hereby swear before God -- the Almighty -- that I will speak before the Tribunal -- nothing but the truth -- concealing nothing of what is known to me -- so help me God, Amen. [The witness repeated the oath.]
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Witness Rajzman, will you please tell the Tribunal what was your occupation before the war?
RAJZMAN: Before the war I was an accountant in an export firm.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: When and under what circumstances did you become an internee of Treblinka Number 2?
RAJZMAN: In August 1942 I was taken away from the Warsaw ghetto.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: How long did you stay in Treblinka?
RAJZMAN: I was interned there for a year -- until August 1943.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: That means you are well acquainted with the rules regulating the treatment of the people in this camp?
RAJZMAN: Yes, I am well acquainted with these rules.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: I beg you to describe this camp to the Tribunal.
RAJZMAN: Transports arrived there every day; their number depended on the number of trains arriving; sometimes three, four, or five trains filled exclusively with Jews -- from Czechoslovakia, Germany, Greece, and Poland. Immediately after their arrival, the people had to leave the trains in 5 minutes and line up on the platform. All those who were driven from the cars were divided into groups -- men, children, and women, all separate. They were all forced to strip immediately, and this procedure continued under the lashes of the German guards' whips. Workers who were employed in this operation immediately picked up all the clothes and carried them away to barracks. Then the people were obliged to walk naked through the street to the gas chambers.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: I would like you to tell the Tribunal what the Germans called the street to the gas chambers.
RAJZMAN: It was named Himmelfahrt Street.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: That is to say, the "street to heaven"?
RAJZMAN: Yes. If it interests the Court, I can present a plan of the camp of Treblinka which I drew up when I was there, and I can point out to the Tribunal this street on the plan.
THE PRESIDENT: I do not think it is necessary to put in a plan of the camp, unless you particularly want to.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Yes, I also believe that it is not really necessary. Please tell us, how long did a person live after he had arrived in the Treblinka Camp?
RAJZMAN: The whole process of undressing and the walk down to the gas chambers lasted, for the men 8 or 10 minutes, and for the women some 15 minutes. The women took 15 minutes because they had to have their hair shaved off before they went to the gas chambers.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Why was their hair cut off?
RAJZMAN: According to the ideas of the masters, this hair was to be used in the manufacture of mattresses for German women.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you mean that there was only 10 minutes between the time when they were taken out of the trucks and the time when they were put into the gas chambers?
RAJZMAN: As far as men were concerned, I am sure it did not last longer than 10 minutes.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Including the undressing?
RAJZMAN: Yes, including the undressing.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Please tell us, Witness, were the people brought to Treblinka in trucks or in trains?
RAJZMAN: They were brought nearly always in trains, and only the Jews from neighboring villages and hamlets were brought in trucks. The trucks bore inscriptions, "Expedition Speer," and came from Vinegrova Sokolova and other places.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Please tell us, what was the subsequent aspect of the station at Treblinka?
RAJZMAN: At first there were no signboards whatsoever at the station, but a few months later the commander of the camp, one Kurt Franz, built a first-class railroad station with signboards. The barracks where the clothing was stored had signs reading "restaurant," "ticket office," "telegraph," "telephone," and so forth. There were even train schedules for the departure and the arrival of trains to and from Grodno, Suwalki, Vienna, and Berlin.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Did I rightly understand you, Witness, that a kind of make-believe station was built with signboards and train schedules, with indications of platforms for train departures to Suwalki, and so forth?
RAJZMAN: When the persons descended from the trains, they really had the impression that they were at a very good station from where they could go to Suwalki, Vienna, Grodno, or other cities.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: And what happened later on to these people?
RAJZMAN: These people were taken directly along the Himmelfahrtstrasse to the gas chambers.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: And tell us, please, how did the Germans behave while killing their victims in Treblinka?
RAJZMAN: If you mean the actual executions, every German guard had his special job. I shall cite only one example. We had a ScharFuehrer Menz, whose special job was to guard the so-called "Lazarett." In this "Lazarett" all weak women and little children were exterminated who had not the strength to go themselves to the gas chambers.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Perhaps, Witness, you can describe this "Lazarett" to the Tribunal?
RAJZMAN: This was part of a square which was closed in with a wooden fence. All women, aged persons, and sick children were driven there. At the gates of this "Lazarett," there was a large Red Cross flag. Menz, who specialized in the murder of all persons brought to this "Lazarett," would not let anybody else do this job. There might have been hundreds of persons who wanted to see and know what was in store for them, but he insisted on carrying out this work by himself. Here is just one example of what was the fate of the children there. A 10-year-old girl was brought to this building from the train with her 2-year-old sister. When the elder girl saw that Menz had taken out a revolver to shoot her 2-year-old sister, she threw herself upon him, crying out, and asking why he wanted to kill her. He did not kill the little sister; he threw her alive into the oven and then killed the elder sister. Another example: They brought an aged woman with her daughter to this building. The latter was in the last stage of pregnancy. She was brought to the "Lazarett," was put on a grass plot, and several Germans came to watch the delivery. This spectacle lasted 2 hours. When the child was born, Menz asked the grandmother -- that is the mother of this woman -- whom she preferred to see killed first. The grandmother begged to be killed. But, of course; they did the opposite; the newborn baby was killed first, then the child's mother, and finally the grandmother.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Please tell us, Witness, does the name Kurt Franz mean anything to you?
RAJZMAN: This man was deputy of the camp commander, Stengel, the biggest murderer in the camp. Kurt Franz was known for having published in January 1943, a report to the effect that a million Jews had been killed in Treblinka -- a report which had procured for him a promotion from the rank of SturmbannFuehrer to that of ObersturmbannFuehrer.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Witness, will you please tell how Kurt Franz killed a woman who claimed to be the sister of Sigmund Freud. Do you remember this incident?
RAJZMAN: A train arrived from Vienna. I was standing on the platform when the passengers left the cars. An elderly woman came up to Kurt Franz, took out a document, and said that she was the sister of Sigmund Freud. She begged him to give her light work in an office. Franz read this document through very seriously and said that there must be a mistake here; he led her up to the train schedule and said that in 2 hours a train would leave again for Vienna. She should leave all her documents and valuables and then go to a bathhouse; after the bath she would have her documents and a ticket to Vienna. Of course, the woman went to the bathhouse and never returned.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Please tell us, Witness, why was it that you yourself remained alive in Treblinka?
RAJZMAN: I was already quite undressed, and had to pass through this Himmelfahrtstrasse to the gas chambers. Some 8,000 Jews had arrived with my transport from Warsaw. At the last minute before we moved toward the street an engineer, Galevski, an old friend of mine, whom I had known in Warsaw for many years, caught sight of me. He was overseer of workers among the Jews. He told me that I should turn back from the street; and as they needed an interpreter for Hebrew, French, Russian, Polish, and German, he managed to obtain permission to liberate me.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: You were therefore a member of the labor unit of the camp?
RAJZMAN: At first my work was to load the clothes of the murdered persons on the trains. When I had been in the camp 2 days, my mother, my sister, and two brothers were brought to the camp from the town of Vinegrova. I had to watch them being led away to the gas chambers. Several days later, when I was loading clothes on the freight cars, my comrades found my wife's documents and a photograph of my wife and child. That is all I have left of my family, only a photograph.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Tell us, Witness, how many persons were brought daily to the Treblinka Camp?
RAJZMAN: Between July and December 1942 an average of 3 transports of 60 cars each arrived every day. In 1943 the transport arrived more rarely.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Tell us, Witness, how many persons were exterminated in the camp, on an average, daily?
RAJZMAN: On an average, I believe they killed in Treblinka from ten to twelve thousand persons daily.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: In how many gas chambers did the killings take place?
RAJZMAN: At first there were only 3 gas chambers, but then they built 10 more chambers. It was planned to increase this number to 25.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: But how do you know that? Why do you say, Witness, that they planned to increase the number of gas chambers to 25?
RAJZMAN: Because all the building material had been brought and put in the square. I asked, "Why? There are no more Jews." They said, "After you there will be others, and there is still a big job to do."
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: What was the other name of Treblinka?
RAJZMAN: When Treblinka became very well known, they hung up a huge sign with the inscription "Obermaidanek."
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: What do you mean by "very well known"?
RAJZMAN: I mean that the persons who arrived in transports soon found out that it was not a fashionable station, but that it was a place of death.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Tell us, Witness, why was this make-believe station built?
RAJZMAN: It was done for the sole reason that the people on leaving the trains should not be nervous, should undress calmly, and that there should not be any incidents.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: If I understand you correctly, this criminal device had only one purpose -- a psychological purpose of reassuring the doomed during the first moments.
RAJZMAN: Yes, exclusively this psychological purpose.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: I have no further questions to ask this witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Does any of the other chief prosecutors wish to ask any questions? [There was no response.] Do the defendants' counsel wish to ask any questions? [There was no response.] Then the witness can retire. [The witness left the stand.]
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: I should like to submit to the Tribunal a very short excerpt from a document which is submitted as an appendix to the Polish Government report. I mean an affidavit . . .
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Smirnov, have you got any more witnesses?
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Yes, I still have a request to call one more witness on the last count of my statement. In connection with the presentation of evidence on this last count I would request the Tribunal's permission to summon as witness the Archdeacon of Leningrad Churches and Rector of the Leningrad Seminary, the Permanent Dean of Nikolai Bogoiavlenski Cathedral in Leningrad Nikolai Lomakin.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, and you will be able to include his evidence today and conclude your statement; is that right?
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Yes, Mr. President. I should like to read another short excerpt from this report of the Polish examining magistrate, which I have submitted to the Tribunal (Document Number USSR-340). I shall read only that excerpt which demonstrates the scale of the crimes. The number of victims murdered at the Treblinka Camp, according to the Polish magistrate'' estimate, is about 781,000 persons. At the same time he mention that the witnesses interrogated by him testified to the fact the when the clothes of the internees were sorted out, they even fount British passports and diplomas of Cambridge University. This mean that the victims of Treblinka came from every European country. I should like further to quote, as proof of the existence of another secret extermination center, the depositions of Wladislav Bengash the district examining magistrate in the city of Lodz, made before the Chief Commission for the Investigation of German Crimes is Poland. This testimony is also an official appendix to the Polish Government report. I should like to read two excerpts from this statement which would give us an idea of the methods of extermination practiced in the village of Helmno. The two paragraphs are on the back of Page 223 of the document book: "In the village of Helmno there was an abandoned mansion surrounded by an old park -- the property of the state. Nearby . . . there was a pine forest with a nursery and dense undergrowth. At this point the Germans built an extermination camp. The park was closed in by a high wooden fence, and one could not see what was going on in the park nor in the house itself. The inhabitants of the village of Helmno were all evacuated." I interrupt the quotation and pass on to Page 226 of the document book, first paragraph. I quote: "The whole organization set up for the extermination of people was so cunningly devised and carried out that right up to the last moment the next transport of doomed persons could not guess the fate of the group which had preceded them.