dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
HERR PELCKMANN: I found out the camp and the commander, who was Kriminalkommissar Wirth. I asked Wirth whether this report was true or what it meant. To my great astonishment, Wirth admitted it. I asked him why he permitted members of his command to do such things and Wirth then revealed to me that on the Fuehrer's orders he had to carry out the destruction of Jews. HEIRR PELCKMANN: Please go on, Witness, to describe your investigations. MORGEN: I asked Wirth what this had to do with the Jewish wedding. Then, Wirth described the method by which he carried out the extermination of Jews, and he said something like this: "One has to fight the Jews with their own weapons, that is to say "pardon me for using this expression-"one has to cheat them." Wirth staged an enormous deceptive maneuver. He first selected Jews who would, he thought, serve as column leaders, then these Jews brought along other Jews, who worked under them. With that smaller or medium-sized detachment of Jews, he began to build up the extermination camps. He extended this staff of Jews, and with these Jews Wirth himself carried out the extermination of the Jews. Wirth said that he had four extermination camps and that about 5,000 Jews were working at the extermination of Jews and the seizure of Jewish property. In order to win Jews for this business of extermination and plundering of their brethren of race and creed, Wirth gave them every freedom and, so to speak, gave them a financial interest in the spoliation of the dead victims. As a result of this attitude, this sumptuous Jewish wedding had come about. Then I asked Wirth how he killed Jews with these Jewish agents of his. Wirth described the whole procedure that went off like a film every time. The extermination camps were in the east of the Government General, in big forests or uninhabited wastelands. They were built up like a Potemkin village. The people arriving there had the impression of entering a city or a township. The train drove into a dummy railroad station.
HERR PELCKMANN: After the escorts and the train personnel had left the area, the cars were opened and the Jews got out. They were surrounded by these Jewish labor detachments, and Kriminalkommissar Wirth or one of his representatives made a speech. He said, "Jews, you were brought here to be resettled, but 493 7 Aug. 46 before we organize this future Jewish State, you must of course learn how to work. You must learn a new trade. You will be taught that here. Our routine here is, first, every one must take off his clothes so that your clothing can be disinfected, and you can have a bath so that no epidemics will be brought into the camp." After he had found such calming words for his victims, they started on the road to death. Men and women were separated. At the first place, one had to deliver the hat; at the next one, the coat, collar, shirt, down to the shoes and socks. These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a check at each one so that the people believed that they would get their things back. The other Jews had to receive the things and hurry up the new arrivals so that they should not have time to think. The whole thing was like an assembly line. After the last stop they reached a big room, and were told that this was the bath. When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were started. When the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened, and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special procedure which Wirth had invented, they were burned in the open air without the use of fuel. HERR PELCKMANN: Was Wirth a member of the SS? MORGEN: No, he was a Kriminalkommissar in Stuttgart. HERR PELCKMANN: Did you ask Wirth how he arrived at this devilish system? MORGEN: When Wirth took over the extermination of the Jews, he was already a specialist in mass-destruction of human beings. He had previously carried out the task of getting rid of the incurably insane.
HERR PELCKMANN: By order of the Fuehrer himself, whose order was transmitted through the Chancellery of the Fuehrer, he had, at the beginning of the war, set up a detachment for this purpose, probably composed of a few officials of his, as I believe, the remainder being agents and spies of the Criminal Police. Wirth very vividly described how he went about carrying out this assignment. He received no aid, no instructions, but had to do it all by himself. He was only given an old empty building in Brandenburg. There he made his first experiments. After much consideration and many individual experiments, he evolved his later system, and then this system was used on a large scale to exterminate the insane. A commission of doctors previously investigated the files, and those insane who were listed by the asylums as incurable were put on a separate list. Then the asylum concerned was told one day to send these patients to another institution. From this asylum 494 7 Aug. 46 the patient was transferred again, often more than once. Finally he came to Wirth's institution, where he was killed by gas and cremated. This system, which deceived the asylums and made them unknowing accomplices, enabled him with very few assistants to exterminate large numbers of people, and this system Wirth now employed with a few alterations and improvements for the extermination of Jews. He was also given the assignment by the Fi1hrer's Chancellery to exterminate the Jews. HERR PELCKMANN: The statements which Wirth made to you must have surpassed human imagination. Did you immediately believe Wirth? MORGEN: At first Wirth's description seemed completely fantastic to me, but in Lublin I saw one of his camps. It was a camp which collected the property or part of the property of his victims. From the piles of things-there were an enormous number of watches piled up-I had to realize that something frightful was going on here. I was shown the valuables. I can say that I never saw so much money at one time, especially foreign money-all kinds of coins, from all over the world.
HERR PELCKMANN: In addition, there was a goldsmelting furnace and really prodigious bars of gold. I also saw that the headquarters from which Wirth directed his operations was very small and inconspicuous., He had only three or four people working there for him. I spoke to them too. I saw and watched his couriers arrive. They actually came from Berlin, Tiergartenstrasse, the Fi1hrer's Chancellery, and went back there. I investigated Wirth's mail and I found in it confirmation of all this. Of course, I could not do or see all this on this first visit. I was there frequently. I pursued Wirth up to his death. HERR PELCKMANN: Did Wirth give you names of people who were connected with this operation? MORGEN: Not many names were mentioned, for the simple reason that the number of those who participated could be counted, so to speak, on one's fingers. I remember one name: I think the name was Blankenburg, in Berlin. HERR PELCKMANN: Blankenburg? MORGEN: Blankenburg, of the Fi1hrer's Chancellery. THE PRESIDENT: Well, we had better adjourn now. We have already been 50 minutes. [The Tribunal adjourned until 8 August 1946 at 1000 hours.]
REINECKE: I have the knowledge necessary to answer the ques-tion because, working in the legal department, I constantly had to concern myself with the strength of the SS. I know that the state-ment by witness Brill corresponds to the facts. It is a fact, as stated by defendant's counsel, that the figure given by witness Brill includes the losses suffered by the Waffen-SS. The figures contained in this document must be increased by the number of killed in the course of the war, both of men and leaders, either low-ranking or senior, of the Waffen-SS, in order to draw conclusions regarding the real strength of the Waffen-SS. BERR PELCKMANN: On Page 28 of the same document you have the numbers in the various offices. The final total is 39,415 members of the SS. -Do you still have the document before you, Witness? REINECKE: No, unfortunately I have not. [The document was handed to the witness.] HERR PELCKMANN: You said that the figure representing the SS Economic and Administrative Main Office, which was respon-sible for the administration of the entire concentration camp system, was 24,091 persons. Does this mean persons who were carrying out purely clerical work? Were there in fact 24,000 clerks in that depart-ment? Or what does that figure mean? REINECKE: The SS Economic and Administrative Main Office was a much inflated organization, which above all, as its name indicates, had at its disposal a large organization of firms and industries. All the employees of those industries which were for-mally attached to the Economic and Administrative Main Office were formally drafted into the SS in order to make them "uk.," that means to relieve them from compulsory service in. the Armed Forces. HERR PELCKMANN: As I understood you earlier, you also said that the guards should be counted into that figure? REINECKE: I had not finished my answer to that question.
REINECKE: The guards in the concentration camps and the entire personnel in con-centration camps were also counted in the Economic and Administrative Main Office Department "Dora" as concerns personnel and organization, and thus they were exclusively under the jurisdiction of Pohl as the Chief of the Economic and Administrative Main Office. I assume that the number of those guards is included in the figure of 24,091. BERR PELCKMANN: Would you please look at the figure of 987 SS members attached to the Reich Commissioner for the Strength-ening of German Folkdom, Volksdeutsche Mittelstelle. Merely as an example, were these 987 men the only employees of that depart-ment? REINECKE: I know from my own experience as an SS judge that the department called "Reich Commissioner for the Strength-ening of German Folkdom" had at its disposal thousands of people who, as I said yesterday, were civil servants and were in no way connected with the SS. That figure of 987 members of the SS can be explained just in the same-way as all the other figures. They became members of the SS for the same reason; that is to say, in order to be classified as indispensable they had to be sheltered in an armed unit performing military duties, to prevent them from being drafted. Those persons had no real connection with the SS organization in any case, and it was merely for the technical reasons which I have described that they were taken over by the SS. HERR PELCKMANN: Well then, these statistics which are before us show approximately 800,000 members of the SS. Is it correct, Witness, that against that figure the statistics show that the con-centration camp organization employed only about 25,000 members of the SS? REINECKE: In June 1944, which is the date of this document, that is the correct proportion of men employed in concentration camps in comparison to the total strength of the SS, which is clearly evident from this document. HERR PELCKMANN: May I now submit to Your Lordship the document which I unfortunately did not have at my disposal this morning.
REINECKE: [Turning to the witness.] Witness, I will show it to you. Would you mind having a look at it. You know this document? REINECKE: Yes, that document became known to me during the last 12 months. HERR PELCKMANN: On Page 46 of that document there appears the testimony of a detainee who is referred to by the initials "E.H." The general impression is that the testimony was given before American interrogating authorities, and it reveals ... THE PRESIDENT: Is this document in evidence? HERR PELCKMANN: Your Lordship, it is not in my document book. I am merely putting it to the witness, but as Your Lordship desired to see the book, I submitted it to the Tribunal. THE PRESIDENT: Yes, but ... Well, what is the book? I do not know what it is. What is it? Where does it come from? HERR PELCKMANN: I beg to be permitted to ask the witness just one question with reference to this. THE PRESIDENT: No, no, you may not do that until you have told me where the book comes from. Where does the book come from? HERR PELCKMANN: It comes from the library here. I just got it from the library. It is an official publication ... THE PRESIDENT: I see. HERR PELCKMANN: ... by a Colonel Quinn. On Page 46 there is the testimony of this detainee, and the impression given is that 474 7 Aug. 46 that testimony had been given before interrogating authorities of the American Army. [Turning to the witness.] Can you say anything with reference to that testimony, which describes atrocious conditions and crimes? REINECKE: Yes, I can give you information on that subject. This testimony is... THE PRESIDENT: But, Dr. Pelckmann, the document is not yet in evidence, unless you offer it. Now, if you offer it, it is different. But you are carefully trying to contradict it. What is the good of contradicting a document which is not in evidence? We have never seen it. HERR PELCKMANN: If Your Lordship would hear the witness, then you would discover that I am not trying to contradict the document. THE PRESIDENT: Do you want to offer the document in evidence then?
REINECKE: HERR PELCKMANN: First of all, I should like to put it to the witness and then if I get your permission I should very much like to offer it in evidence. THE PRESIDENT: Well, then, you offer it in evidence and you are relying upon the document, are you? Are you relying upon it or are you not? HERR PELCKMANN: As far as I can quote from Page 46, yes. TBE PRESIDENT: If you want to put it in for the purpose of relying on Page 46, you can do that. HERR PELCKMANN: And the following pages, the entire testimony signed "E. H." THE PRESIDENT: Go on. HERR PELCKMANN: Witness, you understood my question? REINECKE: Yes. HERR PELCKMANN: Please will you answer it. REINECKE: This testimony by "E.H." is the testimony of a female detainee, Eleanora Hodis from Auschwitz, and was made in the late autumn of 1944, under oath, before an SS judge. An investigating commission of the Main Office SS Courts had instituted proceedings against Grabner, Chief of the Police at Auschwitz, and various other participants, for the murder of detainees, and these people were indicted for murder in 2,000 cases. As was always the case, considerable difficulties were met with in the attempt to clear up the facts. The female detainee, Eleanora 475 7 Aug. 46 Hodis, declared herself willing to assist the investigating commission of the SS court by giving evidence, provided the judges would guarantee her life. That guarantee was given, and it was possible to get Hodis out of Auschwitz and transfer her to Munich. In Munich, at the date indicated, she gave her testimony, with those gruesome details which were to form the basis of proceedings to be instituted against Hoess and many other people. However, due to the collapse of Germany the proceedings could not be carried through. HERR PELCKMANN: Is it correct, therefore, Witness, that the conditions which are described here existed in the Dachau Concentration Camp, as it would appear ... REINECKE: No. HERR PELCKMANN: ... by being included in this book, because after all, this book deals with the Concentration Camp Dachau? REINECKE: No, that is not correct.
REINECKE: The testimony given by the witness Hodis refers exclusively to the atrocious and gruesome conditions at Auschwitz, and has nothing whatever to do with Dachau Camp. HERR PELCKMANN: Finally, Your Lordship, I merely beg to be allowed to refer to Document D-959 which has been submitted by the British Delegation. When discussing the question ... THE PRESIDENT: Give that document you just put in some number. HERR PELCKMANN: The document "SS-Dachau"... THE PRESIDENT: You can give it a number afterward. Do not delay now. HERR PELCKMANN: I will merely look up the number of documents I have submitted up to now and then I will give them numbers. When the Prosecution defined their attitude regarding the admissibility of that document, they said that it was regretted that the document could be submitted only so very late. In other words, as we all know, it ought to have been submitted during the presentation of evidence. At this stage, with reference to the hundreds of statements regarding the activity of the Waffen-SS in Czechoslovakia, I cannot now define my attitude and I, too, regret that the document arrived so very late. However, as it has now been admitted and as the Tribunal is taking judicial notice of it, I think I ought to have the possibility, therefore, of referring to the details which are brought up in support of the case for the Prosecution-its value cannot be assessed otherwise-so as to have the opportunity to define my attitude. For that purpose I beg to be granted a respite. 476 7 Aug. 46 THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, the Tribunal thinks that you must go on with your case and that you cannot be given further time. The Tribunal has said that they are bound to take judicial notice of the document under Article. 21 and this witness has told us he had never heard of the incidents-two incidents I think-to which counsel drew his attention. HERR PELCKMANN: I am afraid I did not understand the translation of the last part of what you said, Mr. President.
REINECKE: THE PRESIDENT: I said that you must go on with your case and that the Tribunal had admitted that document under Article 21, and that with reference to the two incidents to which counsel for the Prosecution referred, this witness has said that he has never heard of them. HERR PELCKMANN: I have no further questions to this witness. DR. GAWLIK: With reference to the Document D-960, submitted during cross-examination, I have a few questions to put to the witness. THE PRESIDENT: Which document? Which document? DR. GAWLIK: D-960, Exhibit Number GB-569. [Turning to the witness.] Witness, I shall once again have the document shown to you. [The witness was handed the document.] Was the SD responsible for dealing with this letter? REINECKE: That question must be answered with "no." It becomes evident from its heading that the letter is addressed to the Security Police and SD at Strasbourg. The application of the term SD in this case is misleading; it was simply used by way of habit and had nothing to do with the organization of the SD.. It results from the Chief of the Reich Security Main Office calling himself "Chief of Security Police and the SD." DR. GAWLIK: I have no further questions. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): Witness, I want to ask you a few questions about the investigation of the camps. You said your investigation began in 1943. What time in the year 1943 did your investigation begin of the concentration camps? REINECKE: Your Lordship, that was during the second half of 1943, as far as I can recollect, either in June or July. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): It lasted for a little under two years until the end of the war, I suppose. REINECKE: Yes. 477 7 Aug. 46 THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): How many camps did you investigate? REINECKE: It began in Buchenwald Camp, and thereafter investigating commissions were sent to every 'camp which had attracted suspicion. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): Witness, listen very carefully and answer the questions. All I asked you was how many camps did you investigate?
REINECKE: REINECKE: In all, investigations were made in 7 to 10 camps, but I cannot give you the exact figure at the moment. It varied from time to time. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): You mean 7 to 10 in, all, altogether 7 to 10? REINECKE: Yes, that is what I meant. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): Did that include labor training camps also? REINECKE: By the 7 to 10 camps I mean the "Stammlager" (parent camps), that is the concentration camps themselves, and from there the investigation spread from the parent camp where the commission was stationed to the labor camps. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): And that included Auschwitz and Dachau? REINECKE: In both these concentration camps there were investigation commissions. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): And Treblinka? REINECKE: Not in Treblinka, Your Lordship. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): Did you investigate any camps outside of Germany? REINECKE: Yes, for instance we had a commission in the Concentration Camp Hertogenbosch in Holland, and there proceedings were instituted against a camp commander, which ended in long terms of imprisonment. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): How many investigators were you using at any one time? REII,CKE: The total of investigating officials may have varied from 30 o 50 people, the majority of whom were not taken from the legal authorities but were experts from the Reich Security Main Office and from the Criminal Police. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): No, I do not want-now, how many cases did you recommend for court action? 478 7 Aug. 46 REINECKE: Proceedings which ended with a sentence amounted to 200 up to the end of the war; that is to say, 200 sentences were passed which were actually carried out. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): Again I did not ask you that, Witness; I said, how many cases did you recommend for action. You made recommendations, did you not? REINECKE: Altogether 800 cases, 800 proceedings were instituted in the course of the investigations. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): Where did you send your reports? Did you send them directly to the courts?
REINECKE: REINECKE: When the investigation was completed and when the case was ready for prosecution, the reports from the investigating commissions went, together with the judge's order to prosecute, to the court itself, which would then hold the actual trial and pronounce sentence. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): And where did copies of the reports go? Did a copy go to the Minister of the Interior? REINECKE: No, that I consider out of the question. THE TRIBUNAL(Mr. Biddle): You mean the Minister of the' Interior was not concerned with any of this? REINECKE: We are here concerned with criminal proceedings against members of the SS which, therefore, came under the penal jurisdiction of the SS and, as far as that is concerned, the Ministry of the Interior was not involved. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): You mean you were only investigating cases that involved the SS? REINECKE: All cases were investigated which originated in the camps, and these cases referred to SS members and also to Police members, that is to say, members of the Security Police who were brought to trial before the courts. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): Well now, you have not told us what conditions you found in the camps. You said they were very bad. What were they; what was going on in the camps? REINECKE: We discovered through our investigations that in the camps there was to some extent a regular system of killing which was in use. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): And as a result of discovering that there was a regular system of killing you thought there must be an order to that effect, although you never found it, is that right? REINECKE: Yes, Your Lordship. The fact that an order from above was in existence became known to us at the end of 1944. 479 7 Aug.,46 THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): Now, why did you think that there was a regular system of killing? Was it because there were so many killings? REINECKE: For the reason that there were so many cases, and also because a system of co-operation between the concentration camp commanders with the criminal detainees could be established. THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): That is right.