dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
PAULUS: If I judge correctly, then I believe that I am supposed to be here as a witness for the events with which the defendants are charged. I ask the Tribunal, therefore, to relieve me of the responsibility of answering these questions which are directed against myself.
DR.NELTE: Field Marshal Paulus, you do not seem to know that you also belong to the circle of the defendants, because you belonged to the organization of the High Command which is indicted here as criminal.
PAULUS: And, therefore, since I believe that I am here as witness for the events which have led to the indictment of these defendants here, I have asked to be relieved of answering this question which concerns myself.
DR. NELTE: I ask the Tribunal to decide.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal considers that you must answer the questions that have been put up to date.
PAULUS: Then may I ask for a repetition of the question, please?
DR. NELTE: I have asked you whether, since you realized that there were serious doubts, you talked to your chief, Halder, or to Commander-in-Chief Von Brauchitsch, about these things?
PAULUS: I cannot remember having talked to the Commander-in-Chief of the Army about it, but I did so with the Chief of the General Staff, Generaloberst Halder, who was my superior.
DR. NELTE: Was he of the same opinion?
PAULUS: Yes, he was of the same opinion, that is to say, of the opinion of great anxiety for such a plan.
DR. NELTE: For military or moral reasons?
PAULUS: For many reasons, both military and moral.
DR. NELTE: It is certain, then, that you and the Chief of Staff, Von Halder, realized these facts which would have stamped the war against Russia as a criminal attack and that you nevertheless did nothing against it? In your statement you have said that later you became Commander-in-Chief of the 6th Army; is that right?
PAULUS: Yes.
DR. NELTE: With knowledge of all these facts just stated you accepted the command of an army which was to push against Stalingrad. Did you have any scruples about being made a tool of that attack which in your opinion was a criminal one?
PAULUS: As the situation at that time presented itself for the soldier, in connection also with the extraordinary propaganda which was put into play, I had at that time, as so many others believed, to do my duty toward my fatherland.
DR. NELTE: But you knew about the facts which were against that opinion?
PAULUS: The facts which became clear to me afterwards, due to my experiences as Commander of the 6th Army which found their climax at Stalingrad, those facts I did not know at that time. Also, about that criminal attack-that knowledge came later, when I thought about all the circumstances, because before I could only see part of the whole.
DR. NELTE: Then I have to consider your expression "criminal attack" or any other expressions for the war mongers-I have to consider that as something that you found out later?
PAULUS: Yes.
DR. NELTE: And I may say then that in spite of your having serious doubts and knowledge about the facts which marked the war against Russia as a criminal action of aggression, that in spite of your knowledge, you considered it your duty to take the command of the 6th Army and to hold Stalingrad until the last moment?
PAULUS: I have just explained that at that time, when I took over the command, I did not see the extent of the crime which was considered in the beginning and execution of this war of aggression; that I did not see the entire extent of it and could not see it, as my experiences as Commander of the 6th Army which I was able to gather at Stalingrad have shown to me later.
DR. NELTE: You speak of the extent, but the fact is that you knew the causes. Maybe you were one of the few who knew them. You have not mentioned that.
PAULUS: I did not know then. I knew the instigation of this war to be aggression, from the attitude of the greater part of the officers' corps. In keeping with the prevailing concept I saw nothing unusual in the basing of the fate of a people and a nation upon power politics.
DR. NELTE: So you agreed to these ideologies?
PAULUS: Not to the tendency which appeared later, but I did not conclude therefrom that the fate of a country could be built upon power politics. It was a mistake that at this time, and in the 20th Century, only the democracies and the concept of the nationality principle were the decisive factors.
DR. NELTE: Would you grant to "others also, who were not so near to the sources, the good faith that they only wanted what eras best for their fatherland?
PAULUS: Yes, I do, of course.
DR. FRITZ SAUTER (Counsel for Defendants Von Schirach and Funk): Witness, yesterday you mentioned that you consider the Hitler Government as the guilty ones. Is that correct?
PAULUS: Yes, I have done so...
DR.SAUTER: In your written deposition which you made on 9 January 1946-in a prisoner-of-war camp it is said-there is nothing about that; at least, I have not found anything about it so far.
PAULUS: This letter has nothing to do with that. This is a letter to the Soviet Government, in which I explained several questions which came up within the 6th Army in Russia, and several of my own experiences.
DR. SAUTER: In this letter of 9 January 1946, you said explicitly- and I quote: "Today, when the crimes of Hitler and his helpers are being judged, I find myself obliged to tell the Soviet Government everything which I have known and which may serve as proof of the guilt of the war criminals in the Nuremberg Trials." In spite of that, in this written declaration, which is very detailed, there is nothing about it.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, if you cross-examine the witness on this letter, you must put the letter in evidence, the whole letter.
DR. SAUTER: That is the statement which the witness has given, on the...
THE PRESIDENT: I have no doubt it is; all I say is, if you cross-examine him on the letter and put the letter to him, you must put the letter in evidence. You have a copy of the letter?
DR. SAUTER: Yes. It is in the statement which the Soviet Prosecutor yesterday put up to the witness and in regard to which the witness made the statement that he considers it correct and will repeat it.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I follow it. I was not sure whether it was actually put in or not or whether it was withdrawn upon the promise to produce the witness. Is the letter actually in?
DR.SAUTER: But the witness has said, after the Prosecutor asked him, that he will repeat that statement.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Willey, has the letter been put in?
MR. HAROLD B. WILLEY (American Secretary): It has not been put in, no.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, you can go on cross-examining about it, but the document has got to be put in, that is all.
DR. SAUTER: [Turning to the witness.] Now I would like to know, Witness, what you mean by "Hitler Government"? Do you mean the leaders of the Party or do you mean the Reich Cabinet, or what exactly do you mean?
PAULUS: I mean everyone who is responsible.
DR.SAUTER: I would like you to answer the question more precisely.
PAULUS: In my statement yesterday I have only explained what I have seen myself, what I have experienced myself. I did not intend to make any statements about individual personalities in the Government because that would not be within my knowledge.
DR. SAUTER: Yes, but you spoke about the Hitler Government, did you not?
PAULUS: I just meant the concept of the Hitlerite leadership of the State.
DR. SAUTER: Of the Hitlerite leadership of State? That means, first, the Reich Cabinet, does it not?
PAULUS: Yes, inasmuch as it is responsible for the directives given by the Government.
DR. SAUTER: For this reason I would like to know the following: The Defendant Funk, who is sitting over there, was also a member of the Reich Cabinet and the Defendant Von Schirach is also counted as a member of the Reich Cabinet by the Prosecution. Do you know anything as to whether the Defendant Flunk and the Defendant Von Schirach, like you, for instance, knew anything about these plans of Hitler?
PAULUS: I do not know.
DR. SAUTER: Do you know whether, during the war, since you were at the OKW, there were any meetings of the Cabinet at all?
PAULUS: I do not know that either.
DR. SAUTER: Do you know that Hitler, in the interests of secrecy of his war plans, even ordered that at conferences between himself and his military advisers the members of the Reich Cabinet, as for instance Funk, could not be admitted?
PAULUS: I do not know about that.
DR.SAUTER: Did it not come to your knowledge, perhaps through Herr Jodl or through Herr Keitel, that Hitler even forbade that civilian members of the Reich Cabinet should be present at such military conferences?
PAULUS: I do not know anything about that at all
DR. SAUTER: Another question. After Stalingrad was encircled and the situation had become hopeless, there were several telegrams of devotion sent to Hitler from inside the fortress. Do you know anything about that?
PAULUS: If you speak of telegrams of devotion, I only know about the end, when efforts were made to find a meaning for the catastrophe that had happened there, to find a meaning for all the suffering and dying of so many soldiers. Therefore these things had been depicted as heroism in the telegram, to be forever remembered. I am sorry, but at that time, due to the prevailing situation, I let that pass and did not stop it.
DR. SAUTER: These telegrams were yours, were they not?
PAULUS: I do not know to which telegrams you are referring, with the exception of the last one.
DR. SAUTER: Several telegrams of devotion, in which there was a promise to hold out to the last man; those telegrams about which the German people were horrified. They are said to have your signature. PAULUS I request to have them presented to me, because there is nothing known to me about them.
DR. SAUTER: Do you have any idea what was in the last telegram?
PAULUS: In the last telegram there was a short description of what the army had done, of the achievement of the army, and it was pointed out that it did not intend to capitulate, and that that should be an example for the future.
DR. SAUTER: The answer was, I think, your promotion to General Field Marshal?
PAULUS: I do not know that this was the answer.
DR. SAUTER: But you were promoted to General Field Marshal, and you still have that title because the statement which I have submitted to the Court is signed "Paulus, General Field Marshal."
PAULUS: Well, I have to say.... Do you mean this statement?
DR. SAUTER: Yes, this statement.
PAULUS: Yes, I had to take that title which was conferred upon me.
DR. SAUTER: In this statement which I have submitted to the Court as proof, there is the last sentence: "I bear the responsibility for the fact that I did not give due attention to the execution of the order of 14 January 1943 about the surrender of the prisoners"-namely, all Russian prisoners . . .
PAULUS: Yes.
DR. SAUTER: ". . . to the Russians, and, furthermore, that I . . ."
PAULUS: Yes.
DR. SAUTER: ". . . did not devote myself sufficiently to taking care of the prisoners."-That is to say, the Russian prisoners. I would like to hear your statement about the following: In that detailed letter why did you forget the several hundred thousands of German soldiers who were under your command and who lost under your command their freedom, their health, and their lives? There is no word about that.
PAULUS: No.
DR. SAUTER: No?
PAULUS: That is not the question in this letter. This letter to the Soviet Government was concerned with what happened to the Russian civilian population in the area of Stalingrad and the Russian prisoners of war. At this time I could not say anything about my soldiers, of course not.
DR. SAUTER: Not one word?
PAULUS: No, I could not speak here, because that had to be done at a different time. Of course, it is so that all the operational orders which led to the terrible conditions of Stalingrad, in spite of my objections.... About 20 January, as I said, I had made a report that conditions had reached such a measure of misery and of suffering through cold, hunger, and epidemics as to be unbearable, and that to continue the fighting would be beyond human possibility. The answer given to me by the Supreme Command was: "Capitulation is impossible. The 6th Army will do its historic duty by fighting to the utmost, in order to make the reconstruction of the Eastern front possible."
DR. SAUTER: And that is why you continued your efforts in the crime you have described until the very end?
PAULUS: That is correct.
DR. SAUTER: Because, according to your own statements, everything from the very beginning was a crime, which clearly and for a long time had come to your mind?
PAULUS: I did not say that it was clear to me as a crime from the very beginning, but that later I had this impression, as a result of retrospective considerations. My knowledge comes actually from my experience at Stalingrad.
DR.SAUTER: Then I would like to know, in closing: Was it not clear to you from the very beginning, when you were charged with the development of plans for the attack on Russia, as a specialist for such tasks-was it not clear to you from the very beginning that this attack on Russia could be made only under violations of international treaties, to which Germany was bound?
PAULUS: Yes, under violation of international law, but not under those conditions which developed later.
DR. SAUTER: No, I asked whether it was clear to you that this plan could only be executed by violation of international treaties?
PAULUS: It was clear to me that an attack of that kind could only be made under violation of the treaty which had existed with Russia since the fall of '39.
DR. SAUTER: I have no more questions. Thank you. [Dr. Exner approached the lectern.]
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Exner, I have already told the witness, and defendants' counsel have been told over and over again, that it is of the utmost importance that they should ask their questions slowly, that they ask one question at a time, and that they should pause between the question and the answer and between the answer and the next question. Will you try to observe that rule, please?
PROFESSOR DR. FRANZ EXNER (Counsel for Defendant Jodl): Witness, in September of 1940 at the OKW you were charged with the execution of an operational study against Russia, that is, to continue work on a plan which existed already. Do you know about how strong the German forces in the East were at that time?
PAULUS: I can only clarify, in the OKII I have. . .
DR. EXNER: Yes, we have the OKH in mind.
PAULUS: I do not know any longer how strong the forces in the East were at that time. It was at a time shortly after the end of the campaign against France.
DR. EXNER: You do not know about how many divisions were in the East at that time for the protection of the German border?
PAULUS: No, I cannot remember that.
DR. EXNER: In February of 1941 our transports to the East began. Can you say how strong at that time the Russian forces were, along the German-Russian demarcation line and the Romanian-Russian border?
PAULUS: No, I cannot say that. The information which reached us about the Soviet Union and their forces was so extraordinarily scarce and incomplete that for a long time we had no clear picture at all.
DR. EXNER: But did not Halder at that time talk to the Fuehrer frequently about the strength and deployment of the Russian forces?
PAULUS: That is possible, but I cannot remember it, because I had nothing to do with these questions after that time-with the theoretical development of our ideas. In December the operations department of the Army took the work over.
DR. EXNER: At this time you had theoretical war exercises?
PAULUS: That Divas in the beginning of December.
DR. EXNER: Then you probably used, as a basis of these exercises, information you had about the actual strength of the enemy?
PAULUS: That was just what we assumed about the strength of the enemy.
DR. EXNER: Well, you have collaborated intensively with that operational plan. You have tried it out by theoretical war exercises. Tell me, what was the difference between your work and Jodl's at that time?
PAULUS: I do not think I am able to judge that.
DR. EXNER: I do not understand. That was General Staff work, was it not?
PAULUS: Yes, it was General Staff work, with which I was charged by the Chief of Staff.
DR. EXNER: Yes, and the activity of Jodl as Chief of the Wehrmacht Fuhrungsstab...
PAULUS: The difference is that he had a view of the entire situation from the point where he was, whereas I could only see a small section, only that which I needed for my work, and that is all the information I received.
DR.EXNER: But the activity in both cases was one of General Staff preparation for the war?
PAULUS: Yes.
DR. EXNER: I would also be interested to know something about Stalingrad. In your written statement, or written declaration, you have said that Keitel and Jodl were guilty with regard to the prohibition of capitulation, which had such tragic consequences. How do you know that?
PAULUS: I just wanted to say it was the Supreme Command of the Wehrmacht who was responsible for that order. It had the responsibility, and it makes no difference whether it was one person or another. At any rate, the responsibility was with the office as such.
DR. EXNER: At any rate, you do not know anything about the personal participation of any one of these two gentlemen? You only thought of...
PAULUS: The OKW, which is represented by these persons.
DR. EXNER: Why, when the situation at Stalingrad was so hopeless and terrible-as you have indicated today-did you not, in spite of the order by the Fuehrer to the contrary, try to break out?
PAULUS: Because at that time it was represented to me that by holding out with the army which I led, the fate of the German people would be decided.
DR .EXNER: Do you know that you enjoyed the confidence of Hitler in a special measure?
PAULUS: I do not know about that.
DR. EXNER: Do you know that he had already decided that you would become the successor to Jodl if the Stalingrad operation would be successful, because he did not like to work with Jodl any more? o
PAULUS: I do not know about that in this form, but there was a rumor that late in the summer or early in the fall of 1942 a change was planned in the leadership. That was a rumor which the Chief of Staff of the Luftwaffe told me at that time, but I did not get any official information about that. There was other information, that I should be relieved of the command of that army and should be used to lead a new army group which was to be formed.
DR. EXNER: Do you remember the telegram white you sent to the Fuehrer when you were promoted to the rank of Field Marshal at Stalingrad?
PAULUS: I did not send a telegram then. After my promotion I did not send a telegram.
DR. EXNER: Have you not thanked the Fuehrer in any way?
PAULUS: No.
DR. EXNER: That is quite contrary to statements which other people have made. Witness, you are said to be or to have been a teacher at the Military Academy at Moscow. Is that correct?
PAULUS: That is not right, either.
DR. EXNER: Did you have another position in Moscow?
PAULUS: I was never in Russia before the war.
DR. EXNER: But now, since you became. a prisoner of war?
PAULUS: I have been in a prisoner-of-war camp, like my other comrades.
DR. EXNER: Were you a member of the German Freedom Committee?
PAULUS: I was a member of a movement of German men, soldiers of all ranks and men of all classes, who had made it their aim to warn the German people at the last moment from the abyss, and to arouse them to overthrow this Hitler regime which had brought all this misery to many nations and especially to our German people. I have done that with the proclamation of 8 August 1944.
DR. EXNER: Did you do anything about that before?
PAULUS: No, I did not.
DR. EXNER: Thank you.
DR. LATERNSER: I have only a few more questions to ask the witness. [Turning to the witness] Witness, did you not know when you took over your office as Chief Quartermaster I that these preparations which Major General Marx already had begun, and which you then continued, were intended only for an eventual case?
PAULUS: One could think so, of course, but very soon in the course of the work things appeared which made it seem very probable that these theoretical preparations were to be put to practical use. In connection with the formulation of this plan of operations for an attack in which, from the very beginning, we were thinking in terms of using the Romanian area-during that very time we saw the dispatching of the first military mission with training groups and an entire Panzer division, just into that area for which the first theoretical preparations for an attack were being made. Thus, gradually, the impression became intensified that this was a plan which eventually would be executed.
DR. LATERNSER: Witness, the reason for my question is this: I believe the date which you mentioned, since which the plan was to have already been in existence, the fall of 1940, is a little early, isn't it?
PAULUS: The documents which I was given for that plan of offense I explained in detail yesterday. They were submitted on 3 September, for upon the basis of these documents everything was developed, and everything was actually executed like that later.
DR. LATERNSER: I mean this: That first this plan was considered or conceived for an eventual case, and then at a later date, after a decision had been taken, it was used.
PAULUS: In retrospect, they fit together in perfect sequence, first the theoretical preparation, and then the practical preparation and execution.
DR. LATERNSER: Do you know Directive Number 18 of 12 November 1940, issued by the former Supreme Commander of the Wehrmacht?
PAULUS: I cannot remember it.
DR. LATERNSER: Mr. President, I refer now to a document which has already been submitted by the United States Prosecution, Number 444-PS. Handing the document to the witness7 I submit it to you, Witness. Page 8 is the one to which I am referring.
PAULUS: I cannot remember that I have ever seen this.
DR. LATERNSER: To inform the Court I am going to quote the passage-it is very short-which I have just shown to the witness. It is Page 8 of the Document 444-PS, this paragraph I quote: "5^ Russia: Political conferences with the aim of clarifying the attitude of Russia for the near future have been started." Witness, after you have seen that passage you will have to admit that I am right in saying that the time at which the decision was taken to attack the Soviet Union must have been later than the time you told us yesterday.
PAULUS: I can only say from my personal experience and my own opinion as I look back now, following the entire development, that there was a clear plan from the beginning, the conception of that plan on 3 September 1940, then the directive of 21 December, and then its execution. Just at which precisely measurable date the decision was taken, I do not know, of course.
DR. LATERNSER: Did you know that in 1939 the Soviet Union marched into Poland with very strong forces which bore no relationship-according to opinions of German military experts- with the military problem to be solved at that time?
PAULUS: I only know of the fact that Soviet forces marched into Poland, but I have never heard anything about the size of the forces, nor have I ever heard anyone marvel at the strength of the forces that had taken part in the invasion.
DR. LATERNSER: Do you know that before the German deployment on the Eastern border many strong Soviet forces had been deployed along that border, especially very strong Panzer forces in the area of Bialystok?