dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
GEN. RUDENKO: I understand. I should like to put a few questions to you with regard to the prisoners of war. The employment of prisoners of war, especially from the Soviet Union, on work in the aircraft industry has already been mentioned here.
MILCH: Yes.
GEN. RUDENKO: What is your attitude to employing prisoners of war on work against their own country? What do you think of that?
MILCH: It is, of course, not a nice thing to do; but as far as I know it was also done to our prisoners of war by all the other countries.
GEN. RUDENKO: I am talking of Germany now. You say it is not a nice thing. Is not that a rather mild way of putting it?
MILCH: It depends upon what the others do. All laws of warfare are based on reciprocity, as long as there is any reciprocity.
GEN. RUDENKO: I should like you to answer my question. What was the German High Command's attitude to this kind of employment? Do you consider that by this employment the regulations of international law were being violated?
MILCH: That is a moot point which even now is not clear to me. I only know that orders were given to employ them, and to use these men, as well as women, in the struggle for our existence.
GEN. RUDENKO: Do you consider this to be a legitimate order?
MILCH: I cannot judge that; that depends upon conditions and, as I said, upon reciprocity.
DR. LATERNSER: Mr. President, I ask to have this question and answer stricken from the record. The witness has been asked to give a legal opinion, and it is not for him to do so; since the question is not admissible, the answer too should be stricken.
THE PRESIDENT: General Rudenko?
GEN. RUDENKO: I should like to say I did not realize that the witness did not know whether or not this was a violation of international law. I had every reason to believe that the witness was competent to answer this question, the more so as at the beginning of his statement today, and on Friday, he mentioned the ten rules of the soldier, which he said must not be broken as they were based on international law. I thought, therefore, the witness to be competent to answer the question concerning the use of prisoners of war by the Luftwaffe against their own country. If the Tribunal considers this question to be inadmissible, I will of course withdraw it.
THE PRESIDENT: The question might have been framed differently, as to whether it was not a breach of the rules set out in the soldiers' pay book. However, as to international law, that is one of the matters which the Tribunal has got to decide, and upon that, of course, we do not wish the evidence of witnesses.
GEN. RUDENKO: Yes. I still have two questions to put to this witness.
THE PRESIDENT: We wanted to rise at half-past 4. If it is your intention to ask some more questions, perhaps we had better rise now, or, have you finished?
GEN. RUDENKO: We had better call a recess now, because I may still have a few questions to put to this witness. [The Tribunal adjourned until 12 March 1946 at 1000 hours.]
THE PRESIDENT: General Rudenko, have you concluded your interrogation?
GEN. RUDENKO: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Does the French Prosecution wish to ask any questions? Dr. Stahmer, do you wish to examine further?
DR. STAHMER: No, Sir.
THE PRESIDENT: Then the witness can retire. [The witness left the stand.]
DR. STAHMER: I call the next witness, Colonel of the Luftwaffe, Bernd von Brauchitsch. [The witness Von Brauchitsch took the stand.]
THE PRESIDENT: What is your name?
BERND VON BRAUCHITSCH (Witness): Bernd von Brauchitsch.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you repeat the oath after me. I swear by God -- the Almighty and Orrmiscient -- that I will speak the pure truth -- and will withhold and add nothing. [The witness repeated the oath in German.]
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down if you wish.
DR. STAHMER: Witness, what position did you hold on the staff of the Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I was the first military adjutant of the Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe. I held the rank of chief adjutant. I had the job of making the daily arrangements as ordered by the Commander-in-Chief and working out the adjutants' duty roster. The military position had to be reported daily; military reports and messages only to the extent that they were not communicated by the offices themselves. I had no command function.
DR. STAHMER: In the course of your work did you know that on 25 March 1944 from the prison camp of Sagan, Stalag Luft III, 75 English Air Force officers had escaped?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I knew of this as a special event, as at that time it was reported that a number of air force officers had escaped.
DR. STAHMER: Can you give us some information about the fate of these officers after their escape?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: The fate of these officers is not known to me.
DR. STAHMER: Were you not ever informed that 50 of these officers were shot ostensibly while trying to escape?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I heard only much later that a number of these officers were said to have been shot.
DR. STAHMER: Can you tell us under what circumstances these shootings were carried out?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I do not know anything about that.
DR. STAHMER: Did Reich Marshal Goering order the shooting, or did he have any part in these measures?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I know nothing about the Reich Marshal having taken part or given an order in this matter.
DR. STAHMER: Do you know of the attitude of Hitler with regard to the treatment of so-called terror-fliers who were shot down?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: In the spring of 1944 the number of civilian air-raid casualties by machine-gunning increased suddenly. These attacks were directed against civilians working in the fields; against secondary railroads and stations without any military importance; against pedestrians and cyclists, all within the homeland. This must have been the reason for Hitler giving not only defense orders, but also orders for measures against the fliers themselves. As far as I know, Hitler favored the most drastic measures. Lynching was said to be countenanced.
DR. STAHMER: What was the attitude of the Reich Marshal of the Luftwaffe to this order?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: The Commander-in-Chief and the Chief of the General Staff expressed their opinion that a most serious view must be taken of these attacks, which were directed solely against civilians. Notwithstanding, no special measure should be taken against these airmen. The suggestion that those who bailed out should be lynched and not afforded protection could not be agreed with. In view of Hitler's instructions, the Luftwaffe was forced to deal with these questions. They endeavored to prevent these ideas of Hitler, of which they disapproved, from being put into practice. The solution was to pretend that measures would be taken which, however, were not actually carried out. Then I was given the task, which was outside my competence, of conferring with the High Command of the Armed Forces about the definition of the term "terror-fliers." All those cases which constituted violations of international law and criminal acts were the subject of subsequent discussions and correspondence. These definitions were meant to prevent lynching. The lengthy correspondence also shows the endeavors of the office to put the matter off. At the end of June 1944, the term "terror-fliers" was defined. The Stalag was instructed to report all cases of violation, but not to take any action. Thus we avoided giving an order of the character Hitler had wanted.
DR. STAHMER: In your opinion, therefore, could we say that the measures directed by Hitler were not carried out by the Luftwaffe?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: Yes. It can be said that the measures directed by Hitler were not carried out. As confirmed by the commanders of the air fleets, their men did not receive any orders to shoot enemy airmen or to turn them over to the SD.
DR. STAHMER: Do you know anything about the Luftwaffe having received directives to take hostages or to shoot them?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I do not know of any directive or order dealing with hostages.
DR. STAHMER: Now one more question: Can you give us any information about the treatment of the five enemy airmen who in March 1945 bailed out over the Schorfheide and were captured?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: In March 1945, an American four-engined bomber was shot down after an attack over the Schorfheide. Part of the crew saved themselves by jumping. Some of them were injured and sent to a hospital. The observer, an American captain of the reserve, who in civilian life was a film director in Hollywood, on the following day was interrogated by the Reich Marshal himself about this mission and his bringing down.
DR. STAHMER: I have no more questions for this witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Do any other defendants' counsel wish to ask the witness any questions?
DR. LATERNSER: I have only a few questions for this witness. [Turning to the witness.] What post did you hold when the war started?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: At the outbreak of war I was at the war academy and had just left my squadron.
DR. LATERNSER: Can one say that the outbreak of war caused a happy feeling among the professional soldiers? What was the mood like at that time?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: No, one cannot say that the outbreak of war was greeted with enthusiasm. Rather we faced the fact with great gravity. As young soldiers, we saw our mission in training and educating our men for the defense of our country.
DR. LATERNSER: What posts did you hold during the war? Were you ever on the staff of an air fleet?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I was never on the staff of an air fleet. Except for a short time, when I served as group commander, I was throughout adjutant of the Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe.
DR. LATERNSER: As chief adjutant, as you said before, to the Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe, you had a lot of inside information about the Luftwaffe?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: Insofar as material was available, yes.
DR. LATERNSER: Now, according to your inside information, did the chiefs of air fleets have any influence on political decisions or the conduct of the war?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: According to my information the chiefs of air fleets had no influence on any political decisions. Their job was the technical execution of the orders received, and orders on the conduct of the air war were given more and more by Hitler himself.
DR. LATERNSER: Did the chiefs of air fleets make any suggestions to use more severe methods in the conduct of the war?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I do not know of any suggestions of that kind made by chiefs of air fleets. They were professional soldiers who acted according to orders.
DR. LATERNSER: I have still one question: Was there any co-ordination between the branches of the Wehrmacht? Was this co-ordination of a purely official nature or did it go farther?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: There was co-ordination between the leading local authorities at the front; at a higher level it was effected by the Fuehrer himself.
DR. I.ATERNSER: I have no more questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Does any other defendant's counsel wish to ask any questions? Do the Prosecution wish to cross-examine?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I would ask that the witness be shown Document Number 1156-PS of the United States documents. [Document 1156-PS was submitted to the witness.] Do you recognize this document, Witness?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: No, I do not know this document.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I call your attention to the date, the 20th of March 1941, and I call your attention to the fact that it purports to be a report to Reich Marshal Goering at the 19th of March 1941 meeting.
VON BRAUCHITSCH: While in the service I attended military conferences only if they did not take place at the Fuehrer's Headquarters, or if they were not personal discussions. I have not seen this document and I do not know the facts.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Let me call your attention to Item 2 which refers to you, I take it, and which reads: "The directive worked out by the Wi regarding destructive measures to be undertaken by the Luftwaffe in Case Barbarossa. was agreed to by the Reich Marshal. One copy was handed to Captain Von Brauchitsch for transmission to the General Staff of the Luftwaffe." And I ask you whether that states the facts.
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I cannot remember these facts, neither can I give any information about the contents of the letter mentioned here.
MIL JUSTICE JACKSON: You knew about Case Barbarossa, did you not?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I did not hear about Case Barbarossa until the beginning of 1941. 1 was not present at the conferences.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: But you did know that certain destructive measures were planned to be undertaken in connection with that by the Luftwaffe, did you not?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I know only of the first missions given to the Luftwaffe, and I recollect that attacks on airfields were ordered.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Did it not also provide for attacks against cities, particularly St. Petersburg?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: To my recollection and knowledge, at the time this letter was written nothing was said about these targets but only about attacks on airfields, which were the main targets of the Luftwaffe.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I will ask that the witness be shown Document Number 735-PS, in evidence as Exhibit Number GB-151. [Document 735-PS was submitted to the witness.] That is in evidence and appears to be a most secret document of which only three copies were made, is that correct?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: May I read this letter first before I answer the question?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I call your attention first to the signature at the end of it and ask you if you recognize it?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: The signature is Warlimont.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Who was Warlimont?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: Warlimont was the Deputy Chief of the Armed Forces Operations Staff.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And you knew him well and he knew you well, is that not so?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I knew him by sight and on this occasion I spoke to him for the first time.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: On the occasion of this meeting that is recorded in these minutes, is that the occasion when you first met and spoke to Warlimont?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: When I first spoke to him officially, yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: That was on the 6th of June 1944, when this meeting was held?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: According to this letter, yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, I call your attention to Paragraph Number 1 of the minutes of this meeting, from which it appears that ObergruppenFuehrer Kaltenbrunner opened this meeting with a report that a conference on the question of the fliers had been held shortly before with the Reich Marshal, the Reich Foreign Minister and the Reich Fuehrer SS. That is the opening of it, is it not?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I know nothing of the record of this conference or even that it took place.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Who was the Reich Marshal at that time?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I remember the fact because on the 6th of June the invasion started and during the night of the 5th to the 6th I phoned Reich Marshal Goering himself at 0200 hours and informed him that the invasion had begun. In the morning he left Veldenstein for Klessheim, in order to attend in the afternoon a conference there on the situation.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And this meeting is said to have been held in Klessheim on the afternoon of the 6th of June, is it not?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I said once before that I do not know anything of the meeting as such and of the subject of the discussion.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Yes, I understand, you were not present. Goering was Reich Marshal; is that right?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Ribbentrop was Foreign Minister at that time, was he not?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And who was the Reich Fuehrer SS?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: Himmler.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, it was as a result of that meeting at which the Foreign Minister -- just follow the next sentence, ". . . the Foreign Minister who wished to include every type of terror attack on the native civilian population...." It was agreed that this conference, which you did attend, was to take place; is that not the sense of the first paragraph?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: In the first place, I was not at this meeting and, secondly, I do not know anything about the subject as shown in evidence here.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Well, were you not at the meeting with Kaltenbrunner which Kaltenbrunner called?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I was not at the meeting with Kaltenbrunner which is mentioned here.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Despite the signature of Warlimont on these minutes which says you were?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: In spite of the signature. May I first read the whole document before I give a definite answer?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Read the last sentence. Witness, I may be misinterpreting this. It does not say you were present, but it does say that you gave them this information. I ask you to look at the last paragraph and say whether that is not true?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: The last paragraph of this document, above the signature, can only refer to a conference which, if I remember correctly, took place in the late afternoon of 6 June in General Warlimont's quarters and which I have mentioned in my previous statement.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I think I was confused about the two meetings and that these minutes do not show you to have been present. There was such a conference as Warlimont describes but it was not the same conference at which Kaltenbrunner was present, is that correct?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: Yes, that is correct. I know only of this one meeting in the late afternoon of 6 June between Warlimont and myself.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And that is the conference to which he refers in the first paragraph?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: No, the conference in the afternoon has nothing to do with the first paragraph which I just read, and has no connection with it.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The third paragraph had no connection with the first meeting, you say?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: Paragraph Number 3 has no connection with Paragraph Number 1. I had no knowledge of Paragraph Number 1. I mentioned before that I was given the task of conferring with the OKW about the definition of acts which were to be considered as iriolations of international law, and criminal acts.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Let us ask it once more so we will have no misunderstanding about it. The conference referred to in Paragraph Number 3 of Warlimont's minutes is a conference between you and him later that afternoon and had nothing to do with the Kaltenbrunner conference which was held earlier in the day.
VON BRAUCHITSCH: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, what was the situation in the beginning of 1944 with reference to the bombing of German cities?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: The situation was that the air raids had increased in intensity and in the beginning of 1944 they were very heavy.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: That was becoming very embarrassing to the Reich Marshal, was it not?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: Of course it was very unpleasant for the Luftwaffe, because their defensive strength was too weak to stave off these attacks.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And they were being blamed somewhat and the Reich Marshal was being blamed for the air attacks, was he not?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: Of course, that goes without saying.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And the Reich Marshal was in the embarrassing position of having assured the German people back in 1939 that they could be protected against air attacks on the German cities. You understood that fact, did you not?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I understand that to be so, but I also know that the conditions in 1939, which led to this statement, were entirely different from those of 1944 when the whole world was against us.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: But the fact was that German cities were being bombed and the German people had looked to the Reich Marshal to protect them, is that not a fact?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: It is clear that the German people expected the Luftwaffe to use all available means to ward off these attacks.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, what were the relations between Goering and Hitler at this time?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: May I ask to have the question repeated? I did not understand it clearly.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: What was the relation between Goering and Hitler at this time? Was there any change in the relations as this bombing of German cities progressed?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: The relations between the Reich Marshal and the Fuehrer were no doubt worse than they had been before. Whether that was only due to the conditions caused by the air warfare is not known to me.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You were very close to Reich Marshal Goering throughout this period, the entire period of the war, were you not?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I do not know what you mean by close in the relations between a commander-in-chief and his adjutant.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Well, you were particularly friendly; he had great confidence in you and you had great regard for him. Is that not a fact?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I can confirm that, but unfortunately only on very rare occasions did the Reich Marshal disclose his real motives.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You were with him on the 20th day of April 1945, when he sent the telegram proposing to take over the government of Germany himself, and was arrested and condemned to death?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: Yes, I was present at that time.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And the SS seized you and the Reich Marshal and several others and searched your houses, seized all your papers, and took you prisoner, did they not?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: It is correct that on 23 April at 1900 hours we were surrounded. The Reich Marshal was led to his room and from that moment on he was kept closely guarded; later we were separated and put into solitary confinement. Finally we were separated from him altogether by SS troops stationed at the Berghof.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And this occurred at Berchtesgaden?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: It happened at Berchtesgaden.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I think you have told us that you were all supposed to be shot by the SS at the time of the surrender and were supposed to approve it by your own signature. Is that correct?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: No, that is not quite correct. I know that an order existed that the Reich Marshal with his family and his entourage should be shot in Berlin at the time of capitulation. The second thing you mentioned refers to, something else, namely, that we were to be compelled to report voluntarily to the SS. I must say, in order to be just, that this SS leader would far rather not have had us there at that time so as not to have to carry out this order. At that time we were already separated from the Commander-in-Chief.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: What was the state of your knowledge about the activities of the SS? What was the SS and what was its relation to the Wehrmacht at this time? What was its relation to the Luftwaffe? Tell us about the SS.
VON BRAUCHITSCH: I can only say this much, that SS was a comprehensive term, that the SD, Gestapo, and Waffen-SS were quite separate subdivisions, and that the Gestapo was an instrument of repression which restricted much personal freedom.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And the Waffen-SS likewise, is that not a fact?
VON BRAUCHITSCH: The Waffen-SS was a military force. I myself had neither trouble nor any friction with them.