dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
SAUCKEL: Women from foreign countries were used in exactly the same way as German women. No other conditions.
DR. SERVATIUS: Document Number 025-PS has been submitted here. That is Exhibit Number USA-698, which was also submitted only now and is not contained in the books. This is the record of a conference which took place in your office and in which you spoke at length on the use of female labor. In the third paragraph it says: "To this end, the Fuehrer has ordered the use of 400,000 to 500,000 female Eastern Workers from the Ukraine, between the ages of 15 to 35, for domestic purposes; and the Plenipotentiary General for the Allocation of Labor"-that is you- "has been charged with the carrying through of this action, which is to be concluded in approximately 3 months." It goes on: "It is the specific wish of the Fuehrer that as many girls as possible shall be germanized if they prove satisfactory." Will you please comment on this?
SAUCKEL: Yes, this concerns a decree of the Fuehrer to bring 400,000 to 500,000 female Eastern Workers into the Reich for German households, but especially in order to lighten the work of the German farmers' wives. I should like to mention, in connection with this document, that I did not compile it and that my office did not compile it either. Most likely these minutes were written on the basis of notes which somebody had taken. With reference to these proposed 400,000 to 500,000 domestic servants, it must be said that they were to be brought into the Reich only on a voluntary basis. Actually some 13,000 to 15,000 only, I believe, came into the Reich. The idea of "Germanization," as used here, also refers only to their free will or wish to remain in Germany.
DR. SERVATIUS: What medical attention did the foreign workers receive? Various things have been mentioned here, for instance: "If the worker can no longer work, he is no longer a concern of ours," which is supposed to have been a principle of yours. Then it is further said that work, food, and pay must be brought into relationship with each other. If the worker can no longer work, he is just a dead weight. What can you say with regard to these accusations?
SAUCKEL: Would you show me where I said that? I am not familiar with it.
DR. SERVATIUS: This is in the transcript of a court session; I have the page here, in the German transcript, 2789 (Volume V, Pages 394, 395). It says there that if the worker can no longer work, no concern should be given to his fate. Did you advocate this principle?
SAUCKEL: On the contrary; there exist hundreds of precise decrees and orders which I issued. They were published in the Reithsgesetzblatt, in special issues sent to the factories and to the labor exchanges and in special collections, in which it is set down most clearly that the foreign workers who were brought into the Reich through the Allocation of Labor had to be treated in accordance with German laws, regulations, and directives as far as medical treatment and care, including insurance, were concerned. There were also...
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Servatius, were you putting to the defendant a document where it was alleged he had said that after they were unfit to work, that it is no more his concern? Was it the document you were putting to him?
DR. SERVATIUS: This document was submitted to him with regard to the female workers of whom he is alleged to have said that they were to be germanized. I am no longer dealing with that document, but have turned to the question of medical care.
THE PRESIDENT: You mean that was in Document 025-PS, Exhibit USA-698?
DR. SERVATIUS: That document, Number 025-PS, refers only to female workers. This question has already been dealt with I have turned to the question of medical care in general and am no longer dealing with the question of female workers. [Turning to the defendant.] Did you receive reports about abominable conditions regarding the health and the medical care of foreign workers?
SAUCKEL: No. Not only German physicians were employed as official physicians in the factories and camps to deal with the hygiene and health of the workers, but also numerous physicians and medical assistants from the home countries of the foreign workers were engaged and assigned to these camps.
DR. SERVATIUS: How did you supervise the execution of your decrees, and what other controlling agencies existed?
SAUCKEL: There were the following controlling agencies: first of all...
DR. SERVATIUS: Just a moment. I should like to refer to Document Sauckel-2. In it I have made a survey of the control and inspection agencies concerned with supervision. I shall explain this diagram briefly: In the center, there is the Reich Ministry of Labor, under Seldte; underneath that, the trade inspection boards, including the police department for trade and town planning. That was the only department which had police powers-that is, it could take action against any resistance on the part of those recruited for work. Besides this, several other official agencies were created to handle the difficult problem of welfare. There is, first of all, if you look at the righthand side, the German Labor Front, an agency encompassing the interests of the employers, the industry, and the workers, and in some respects taking the place occupied in the past by the trade unions. From there matters of welfare were turned over to the factories. A special inspection board was created, the Reich Inspection Office of the German Labor Front, with a department for foreign workers which had its own liaison men in the factories to hear complaints. In the factories themselves there were also foreign workers who were able to report on conditions there. Then, turning further to the right, is the Reich Ministry for Food and Agriculture which, through the regional food offices, also had direct insight into questions pertaining to food and welfare. The reports which went to the Reich Foreign Minister through diplomatic channels were eventually also passed on to Sauckel, as we shall see later. Then there is a special department for Eastern Workers under the Rosenberg Ministry-that is the central agency for the peoples of the East-and this last letter which we had here, apparently came from one of the gentlemen in this agency. This central agency for the peoples of the East in turn also had its agents in the factories and works, and they made reports directly. All these reports were turned over to Sauckel. Now, I turn to the left part of the diagram.
DR. SERVATIUS: Sauckel himself instituted for inspectional purposes a personal staff which was sent around to visit factories. We heard from several witnesses that these inspectors appeared and saw to it that everything was in order. Then he established a special office, the Reich Inspectorate. Complaints which came from the German Labor Front and other sources were sent to this inspectorate. When Sauckel says that he immediately passed on these complaints, they were sent first to the Reich Inspectorate, which in turn advised the necessary offices and, if need be, applied the compulsory measures of the Reich Labor Ministry. Then also the Gauleiter were given the task of supervision, and the witnesses who have appeared here-witnesses who were Gauleiter in their time-have confirmed that they exercised control as plenipotentiaries for the Allocation of Labor. Further to the left is shown the care and control exercised by the Reich Ministry for Propaganda which had taken over a supervisory function concerning the direction of the camps and the workers. Then, finally on the far left, comes the Wehrmacht which had its own supervisory machinery through its inspectors, who were entrusted with the prisoners of war and who saw to it that the conventions were observed. The reports of all these agencies were sent to Sauckel, and he testified here that abominable conditions were not reported to him, that he could make his influence felt only through directives, and that he gave his instructions.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Servatius, will you ask the defendant whether that was a correct statement on the meaning of the chart?
DR. SERVATIUS: Witness, this explanation, which I have given, and this diagram, which you have seen, are they correct?
SAUCKEL: Yes.
DR. SERVATIUS: They are correct?
SAUCKEL: Yes.
DR. SERVATIUS: Would you comment now on the activity of the Gauleiter as plenipotentiaries? How did you supervise the Gauleiter?
SAUCKEL: I could not supervise the Gauleiter themselves, as I had no disciplinary or official control over them. But I had the Gaue visited by members of my staff at intervals of about 3 months. On the occasion of these visits the complaints of the Gauleiter were heard and then factories and camps were inspected jointly and a check was made to see how far my directives were, or were not, carried out. I should like to remark that these inspectors naturally were not allowed any control in concentration camps and the work in the concentration camps; that was a different field which was under the control of Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl and in which I had no authority and no insight.
THE PRESIDENT: We will adjourn now. [The Tribunal recessed until 1400 hours.] Afternoon Session
DR. EGON KUBUSCHOK (Counsel for Defendant Von Papen): I ask permission for the Defendant Von Papen to be absent from the court sessions tomorrow morning and afternoon. I need a fairly long consultation with him for the preparation of his defense which I would not be able to have otherwise. Dr. Flexner will represent him during the session.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
MARSHAL (Colonel Charles W. Mays): If it please the Tribunal, a report is made that the Defendant Goering is absent.
THE PRESIDENT: As I said this morning, the Tribunal will rise at 4 this afternoon.
DR. SERVATIUS: This morning we got as far as the inspections, but I should like to go back to one question. You said that the head of the factory was responsible for the workers. Did that also apply to the prisoner-of-war and concentration camps?
SAUCKEL: No. The Army, or that part of the Armed Forces under the authority of which these prisoners of war were kept, was responsible for the prisoner-of-war camps. In the same way, as far as I know, the concentration camps alone were responsible for their inmates, even if they worked.
DR. SERVATIUS: You had formed a Department 9 as a Reich inspection department in the Reich Ministry of Labor. What were the special tasks of this inspection department?
SAUCKEL: I had set up that inspection department, which had not existed before in the Ministry of Labor, because I wanted to ascertain the uniformity and execution of contracts throughout the entire area of the Reich, as well as in the occupied territories where German undertakings and German labor contracts were being carried out; also to examine and control the unified administrative regulations; and, moreover, to see whether my orders concerning food, lodging, treatment, and care were being observed and to what extent they were in need of change. All this was also contained in a directive which I gave to the inspection department.
DR. SERVATIUS: What was the position of the Central Inspection Department in the German Labor Front-the Central Inspection Department for the care of foreign workers?
SAUCKEL: The Central Inspection Department of the DAF had the task of supervising the welfare of foreign workers in the camps in Germany to see whether they were being fed, and so on, in the prescribed way.
DR. SERVATIUS: If there were any abuses, did the Inspection Department report that to you; or who received the report?
SAUCKEL: An agreement between the Fuehrer, the German Labor Front, Dr. Lye, and myself, was added as a supplement to the decree concerning the formation of the Central Inspection Department, and it stated that where it was a question of conditions in camps the Central Inspection Department had to deal directly with the Reich offices concerned, or with the industrial inspection office in the Reich Labor Ministry, in order to remedy the conditions; whereas cases of shortage or surplus of manpower, et cetera, were to be reported to me.
DR. SERVATIUS: By this agreement, therefore, your rights were limited?
SAUCKEL: Yes.
DR. SERVATIUS: That is Document 1913-PS, which has been submitted. It is an agreement between Sauckel and Dr. Ley of 20 September 1943. It is Exhibit USA-227. It is Document Number 41 in the English document book. I shall only refer to it, without quoting from it. [Turning to the defendant.] What other kinds of supervisory offices existed? I am thinking about the French.
SAUCKEL: Well, after I took office, men were appointed to act as liaison agents with the foreign workers. These men, in agreement with the German Labor Front, had the right to visit camps, talk to the workers themselves, and hear their complaints. A special agreement had been reached with the French Government in collaboration with the Reich Foreign Minister.
DR. SERVATIUS: That is Document Sauckel-31. It is on Page 79 of the English text in the Sauckel Document Book Number 1, "French Agency for the Care of the French Employed in the Reich." That is a circular from Sauckel dated 30 April 1942. I submit the document itself, which is in this collection. I quote: "I communicate the following letter from the Foreign Office of 10 April 1942: "The Government of the Reich has notified the French Government that it agrees to the following regulations regarding the care of French voluntary workers in Germany: "Besides the already existing office for prisoners of war, an agency for French civilian workers will be established in Berlin under the direction of Ambassador Scapini. The Reich Government will furnish a building to house this agency. The agency may establish branch offices in four other German cities. "The agency is charged with the care of the French workers in Germany. It will supervise the fulfillment of the contracts made by the workers engaged. It may accept proposals from the workers and transmit them to the competent offices, and see that unsatisfactory conditions are remedied. It is entitled to issue certificates and references to the workers for submission to the French authorities." I omit one paragraph: "Moreover, the head of the French representatives is granted the diplomatic privileges of personal immunity for the execution of his tasks, as well as exemption from German jurisdiction and from coercion by the police." That is the citation. [Turning to the defendant.] How did that office actually work with you?
SAUCKEL: That office actually worked with both the DAF and with me. The representative of that office took part in the negotiations in France with the French Government. The office changed later to the extent that the care of the civilian workers was taken over by M. Brunedon in the place of M. Scapini who looked after prisoners of war only. DR. SERVATIUS. Then, it was only a change of personnel?
SAUCKEL: Yes, it was only a change of personnel. I frequently talked with these gentlemen and acted according to their wishes.
DR. SERVATIUS: What did the Central Inspection Department for the peoples of the Eastern Territories do?
SAUCKEL: The Central Inspection Department for the peoples of the Eastern Territories was an office under the Reich Commissioner for the Eastern Territories.
DR. SERVATIUS: How did that office work?
SAUCKEL: ' It worked in the same way as the French office, except that it was a German organization and Germans were in charge. It had the confidence of the Eastern Workers who worked with us as allies.
DR. SERVATIUS: Did you receive any complaints from that side?
SAUCKEL: None, apart from the cases which Rosenberg reported to me and which I discussed with him. Everything was attended to there.
DR. SERVATIUS: Now I come to the question of the maintenance of labor discipline. What sort of regulations were there in order to maintain labor discipline-punctuality and good work? What kind of regulations existed?
SAUCKEL: In Germany the regulations concerning labor discipline was a matter for the factories themselves. Each factory had its regulations which in normal times were agreed to between the management' the foreman, and the workers' council. This council could take disciplinary action in the form of fines. During the war labor discipline had become more strict, because owing to the scarcity of workers it was not possible to maintain the right of the employer or the employee to give notice. So the German worker, and German labor and industry were under wartime decrees and laws. In order to enforce these, I later issued Decree Number 13 at the suggestion of the Ministerial Council for the Defense of the Reich. This decree, which has been submitted, provides, first of all, for varying degrees of punishment within the industries for infractions of labor regulations, tardiness and unexcused absence from work.
DR. SERVATIUS: That is Document Sauckel-23 in the Sauckel document book; in the English text,- Number 1, Page 62. The witness has given you the essential contents. I merely refer to it now.
SAUCKEL: These measures within the industries for the maintenance of labor discipline started with a warning, and then went up to a fine, or the loss of a day's or week's pay.
DR. SERVATIUS: What happened in the case of gross offenses?
SAUCKEL: If they could not be dealt with by the courts of honor of the Labor Front, cases of constant and obstinate bad conduct had to be reported to the police.
DR. SERVATIUS: This law applied to foreigners as well as to Germans?
SAUCKEL: Yes, that applied to Germans and foreigners.
DR. SERVATIUS: And what was done in case of criminal offenses?
SAUCKEL: They also had to be reported to the police. The labor authorities had no competence in criminal and similar cases.
DR. SERVATIUS: To whom were the complaints sent if the regulations were not applied correctly; that is, if instead of fines corporal punishment had been inflicted?
SAUCKEL: Complaints of this kind were sent to the Labor Front, or to the liaison men for the foreign workers.
DR. SERVATIUS: Were any such cases reported to you?
SAUCKEL: None were reported to me, because that was not within my competence.
DR. SERVATIUS: What were the labor correction camps?
SAUCKEL: They were institutions of the Reichsfuehrer SS.
DR. SERVATIUS: Who was put into these camps?
SAUCKEL: Those who were punished by the authorities for infractions of labor discipline which could not be dealt with by the factory regulations.
DR. SERVATIUS: Were they the same as concentration camps?
SAUCKEL: No; in my opinion, no. These labor training camps were not under the supervision of the Reich Labor Ministry, nor under mine. They were a police institution.
DR. SERVATIUS: You know from these proceedings that quite a number of workers did, in fact, come into the concentration camps. How can you explain that? I shall hand you Document 1063-PS, Exhibit USA-219. It is a letter of 17 December 1942; in the English document book it is Number 28 of the Slave Labor Book. It is a letter marked "Secret," sent by the Chief of the Security Police and the SD to all SS offices; at any rate, not to you. I quote: "For reasons of war necessity which cannot be discussed further here, the Reithsfuehrer SS and Chief of the German Police ordered on 14 December 1942 that by the end of January 1943, at the latest, at least 35,000 prisoners fit for work are to be sent to the concentration camps. In order to obtain this number, the following measures are required: 1. As from now (until 1 February 1943) Eastern Workers, and those foreign workers who are fugitives, or have broken their contracts... are to be brought by the quickest means to the nearest concentration camps...."
THE PRESIDENT: Presumably the witness knows the document.
DR. SERVATIUS: Do you know that document?
SAUCKEL: I saw that document here for the first time.
DR. SERVATIUS: You have not yet looked through it?
SAUCKEL: I saw an excerpt here in Nuremberg for the first time.
DR. SERVATIUS: Then I should like to draw your attention to the decisive passage. Will you please read at the bottom of the first page. It says the following: "In case of necessity, offices not directly involved must be given to understand that each and every one of these measures is an indispensable Security Police measure, and be told the specific reasons in individual cases, so that complaints can be prevented, or at any rate eliminated." What did you know about that decree?
SAUCKEL: Nothing was known to me about that decree. It explains many things which puzzled us. It appears to be a letter from Gruppenfuehrer Muller and, to my surprise, it states quite clearly that other offices-and they can only refer to my offices or Speer's-should be informed that these measures are necessary Security Police measures. That was downright fraud with the intention of misleading us.
DR. SERVATIUS: What do you understand . . .
THE PRESIDENT: Before you pass from this document-I understood the defendant to say that workers were sent to labor camps for infraction of labor rules. That was what you said, wasn't it?
SAUCKEL: If workers, in spite of repeated warnings and fines in the factory, did not show improvement or continued the offenses, they were reported by the factories, not by me, to a police office. As far as I know, this police office had an agreement with the Reich Minister of Justice according to which...
THE PRESIDENT: I asked you where they were sent when you said that they were sent to labor camps for infraction of labor rules, and for no other reason. Did you say that?
SAUCKEL: For no other reason; for infractions or for criminal offenses.
THE PRESIDENT: Then how do you explain the first words of Paragraph 1 of this document: "As from now, all Eastern Workers must be sent to the nearest concentration camps..."?
SAUCKEL: It says here, in the German text, Your Lordship: "As from now, until 1 February 1943, Eastern Workers, and those foreign workers who are fugitives, or who have broken contracts, or who do not belong to allied, friendly, or neutral states, are to be brought by the quickest means to the nearest concentration camps, in observance of the necessary formalities as given under Figure 3." That is the arbitrary directive of that office which I did not know about.
DR. SERVATIUS: What do you understand by "extermination by labor"?
SAUCKEL: I heard that expression "extermination by labor" for the first time here in the courtroom. Such a concept was of necessity absolutely contrary to the interests which I stood for in my position.
DR. SERVATIUS: Did you have anything to do with the employment of concentration camp inmates?
SAUCKEL: I had nothing to do with the employment of concentration camp inmates, and I also told my colleagues that we would have nothing to do with the employment of that kind of labor. I had nothing to do with punitive measures of any kind.
DR. SERVATIUS: Who put the concentration camp inmates to work in the armament industries?
SAUCKEL: I cannot tell you that from personal knowledge because I had nothing to do with it, and I never participated in discussions dealing with this subject.