dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
LAHOUSEN: Yes. In the course of discussions the entire problem was under discussion including the manner in which these orders were carried out-according to my recollection-by the Einsatzkommandos of the SD. These SD squads were in charge both of singling out of persons in camps and in assembly centers for prisoners of war, and of carrying out the executions. Reinecke also discussed measures regarding the treatment of Russian prisoners of war in the camps. Reinecke emphatically accepted the arguments put forth, not by me but by Mueller, and voiced his conviction in very decisive and excessively sharp manner.
COL. AMEN: Now, will you explain to the Tribunal from what you learned at this conference the exact manner in which the sorting of these prisoners was made and in what way it was determined which of the prisoners should be killed?
LAHOUSEN: The prisoners were sorted out by Kommandos of the SD and according to peculiar and utterly arbitrary ways of procedure. Some of the leaders of these Einsatzkommandos were guided by racial considerations; particularly, of course, if someone were a Jew or of Jewish type or could otherwise be classified as racially inferior, he was picked for execution. Other leaders of the Einsatzkommando selected people according to their intelligence. Some had views all of their own and usually most peculiar, so that I felt compelled to ask Mueller, "Tell me, according to what principles does this selection take place? Do you determine it by the height of a person or the size of his shoes?" Mueller was very emphatic in rejecting these and any other objections, and Reinecke adopted rigidly the same point of view as Mueller, instead of accepting my opinions, that is, those of the Amt Ausland Abwehr, which were offered him as a "golden bridge" for his acceptance. That was essentially the contents of the discussion in which I participated.
COL. AMEN: And had you received knowledge about the manner in which these orders were executed through official reports which you received?
LAHOUSEN: We were currently informed of all happenings by our officials at the front or in the camps. Offices of the Abwehr Division III were active in these camps, and in this way, that is, through the normal service channels, we were informed by reports and oral presentation of all these measures and of their effects.
COL.AMEN: Was the information which you received secret and confidential information not open to others?
LAHOUSEN: The information was confidential in accordance with the manner in which our offices were run. De facto , however, the happenings in the camps and the occurrences taking place at the selections were known to large groups of the Wehrmacht.
COL.AMEN: Now, at this conference did you learn anything from Reinecke with respect to the treatment of Russian prisoners in prison camps?
LAHOUSEN: In this discussion the treatment of Russian prisoners in the camps was discussed by Reinecke, and Reinecke was of the opinion that in the camps their treatment must not be the same as the treatment of other allied prisoners of war, but that here, too, appropriate and discriminating measures must be applied. The camp guards, at all events, had to be furnished with whips, and at the slightest sign of an attempted escape or other undesirable act, the guards should have the right to resort to arms.
COL.AMEN: Besides the whips, what other equipment were the Stalag guards given?
LAHOUSEN: Those are details which I do not remember for the moment. I can only say what was mentioned in this discussion.
COL.MIEN: What, if anything, did Reinecke say about the whips?
LAHOUSEN: Reinecke said that the guards, that is, the guard details, should make use of their whips or sticks or whatever instruments they had.
COL. AMEN: Now, through official channels did you learn of an order for the branding of Russian prisoners of war?
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Amen, I think you should refer to them as "Soviet", not "Russian" prisoners.
COL. AMEN: Yes, Your Honor. [Continuing the interrogation.] Did you learn of such an order?
LAHOUSEN: I have heard about it in one of the discussions at which most of the previously mentioned divisional chiefs were usually present. At least a majority of them must have been present.
COL.AMEN: Do you know whether any protests were made with respect to that order?
LAHOUSEN: When the intention of branding these Soviet prisoners was made known, a very sharp protest was voiced at once by Canaris through the Amt Ausland, that is, by Buerckner himself.
COL.AMEN: What, if anything, did Canaris tell you with regard to this order?
LAHOUSEN: Canaris told us that the question had already been expounded in a medical opinion by some physicians; and that there were actually people to lend themselves to treating such a mad subject in a written medical opinion. That was the main topic of this discussion.
COL. AMEN: What information, if any, did you receive through official channels regarding plans to bring Soviet prisoners back to German territory?
LAHOUSEN: In the same context and in the same circle-I must always repeat it-that is, in discussions between Canaris and the chiefs of his divisions I learned that the General Staff had prepared to bring Soviet prisoners into Germany, but that their transportation was suddenly abandoned. I remember that this was by direct order of Hitler-which resulted in the conditions developing in camps in the theater of operations where prisoners were crowded together, could not be fed, and could not be adequately clothed or housed, so that epidemics and cannibalism resulted in these camps.
COL. AMEN: I am not sure but what we missed some of your previous answer. Will you start again to tell us about the change which was made in these orders?
LAHOUSEN: Will you please repeat the question?
COL.AMEN: You referred to a change in the plans to take the Soviet prisoners back to German territory. Is that correct?
LAHOUSEN: Yes, they were not brought back into Germany.
COL.AMEN: And what was the result of this action, namely of their not being brought back at the direct order of Hitler?
LAHOUSEN: The result was as described just now.
COL. AMEN: But I want you to repeat it because we lost some of the answer in the interpreting process. Please just repeat it again. LAHOUSEN The enormous crowds of prisoners of war remained in the theater of operation, without proper care-care in the sense of prisoner of war conventions-with regard to housing, food, medical care; and many of them died on the bare 'door. Epidemics broke out, and cannibalism-human beings driven by hunger devouring one another-manifested itself.
COL.AMEN: Were you personally at the front to observe these conditions?
LAHOUSEN: I made several trips with Canaris and I saw some of these things which I have just described, with my own eyes. At the time I made notes of my impressions which were found amongst my papers.
COL.AMEN: Did you also obtain information as to these matters through official channels of the Abwehr?
LAHOUSEN: Yes, I received this information through the office subordinate to me and through the Amt Ausland.
COL.AMEN: From your official information, to what extent was the Wehrmacht involved in the mistreatment of these prisoners?
LAHOUSEN: According to my information, the Wehrmacht was involved in all matters which referred to prisoners of war, except the executions, which were the concern of the Kommandos of the SD and the Reichssicherheitshauptamt.
COL. AMEN: But is it not a fact that the prisoner-of-war camps were entirely under the jurisdiction of the Wehrmacht?
LAHOUSEN: Yes, prisoners of war were under the jurisdiction of the Supreme Command of the Wehrmacht.
COL.AMEN: But before they were placed in these camps, the Special Purpose Kommandos of the SS were responsible primarily for the executions and the selection of the people to be executed, is that correct?
LAHOUSEN: Yes.
COL.AMEN: Did you receive through official channels information regarding the existence of an order for the killing of British Commandos?
LAHOUSEN: Yes.
COL.AMEN: What action, if any, did Canaris or yourself take with respect to this order?
LAHOUSEN: The order, and as far as I remember, even the mere intention that such an order was to be issued, were discussed in our circle, that is between Canaris and his section chiefs. We all, of course, unanimously agreed on its rejection. The reasons, apart from the aspects of international law, were that the Amt Ausland had under its command a formation, which was attached to our section named "Regiment Brandenburg" which had a task similar to the Commandos. As the head of the section to which this regiment was attached and for which I considered myself responsible, I immediately and most emphatically protested against it in view of the retaliation measures which were to be expected as a result of this order.
COL.AMEN: Did you personally assist in the drafting of these protests?
LAHOUSEN: I know that twice a protest was lodged against this order by Canaris, and by Amt Ausland, through Buerckner. The first time orally, or in writing as soon as the order was issued, and the second time after the first executions had been carried out in pursuance of this order. I myself helped to draft one of these written protests-I do not know whether the first or the second-making a contribution in the interest of my section, and the Regiment Brandenburg, whose functions were similar, very similar, to those of the Commandos.
COL.AMEN: To whom in the ordinary course did these protests go?
LAHOUSEN: The protests were addressed to Canaris' superior officer, that is to say, to the Chief of the OKW.
COL. AMEN: Who was that?
LAHOUSEN: It was Keitel, at that time.
COL.AMEN: Did these protests in the ordinary course go also to Jodl?
LAHOUSEN: That I cannot say, but it is possible.
COL.AMEN: Now, will you tell the Tribunal what were the grounds of the protests which you made?
LAHOUSEN: The grounds were above all, that it was contrary to the interpretation of international law that soldiers, that is to say, not agents or spies, but soldiers clearly recognizable as such, should be killed after they had been taken prisoner. That was the main point which was also of concern to my section since it also comprised soldiers who had to carry out such or similar tasks in their capacity as soldiers.
COL.AMEN: Were there any other grounds urged in protest against these orders?
LAHOUSEN: Certainly. Other reasons were also mentioned in accordance with the interests of the different sections affected by these orders. For the Amt Ausland, it was the point of view of international law. The Abwehr Division III was particularly interested in the interrogation of soldiers captured in commando raids, but never in seeing them killed.
COL.AMEN: Were there any other chiefs of the Abwehr Department who assisted in the preparation of these protests?
LAHOUSEN: As far as I remember today, no.
COL.AMEN: You mentioned Admiral Buerckner, did you not?
LAHOUSEN: Yes, Buerckner was not the chief of the Amt Ausland Abwehr, but only of the Amt Ausland.
COL.AMEN: Now, have you ever heard of an operation known as "Gustav''?
LAHOUSEN: The name "Gustav" was applied not to an operation but to an undertaking similar to the one which was demanded for the elimination of Marshal Weygand.
COL.AMEN: Will you tell the Tribunal what was the meaning of "Gustav"?
LAHOUSEN: "Gustav" was the expression used by the Chief of the OKW as a cover name to be used in conversations on the question of General Giraud.
COL.AMEN: When you say the Chief of the OKW, are you referring to Keitel?
LAHOUSEN: Yes.
COL. AMEN: And are you referring to General Giraud of the French Army? LAHOUSEN Yes, General Giraud of the French Army who, according to my recollection, fled from Königstein in 1942.
COL.AMEN: Do you know of any order issued with respect to General Giraud?
LAHOUSEN: Yes.
COL.AMEN: Who issued such an order?
LAHOUSEN: The Chief of the OKW, Keitel, gave an order of this kind to Canaris, not in writing but an oral order.
COL. AMEN: How did you come to know about this order?
LAHOUSEN: I knew of this order in the same way as certain other chiefs of the sections, that is Bentivegni, Chief of Abwehr Section I, Pieckenbrock and a few other officers. We all heard it at a discussion with Canaris.
COL.AMEN: What was the substance of the order?
LAHOUSEN: The essential part of this order was to eliminate Giraud, in a fashion similar to Weygand.
COL. AMEN: When you say "eliminate" what do you mean? LAHOUSEN I mean the same as in the case of Marshal Weygand, that is, it was intended and ordered that he was to be killed.
COL.AMEN: Do you recall the approximate date when this order was given by Keitel to Canaris?
LAHOUSEN: This order was given to Canaris several times. I cannot say for certain when it was given for the first time as I was not present in person. It was probably after the flight of Giraud from Königstein and prior to the attempt on the life of Heydrich, in Prague. According to my notes, this subject was discussed with me by Keitel in July of the same year, in the presence of Canaris.
COL.AMEN: Well now, what did Keitel first say to you personally about this affair?
LAHOUSEN: I cannot repeat his exact words, but the meaning was that he proclaimed the intention of having Giraud killed, and asked me, as in the case of Weygand, how the matter was progressing or had progressed so far.
COD. AMEN: And what did you say to him on that occasion?
LAHOUSEN: I cannot remember the exact words. I probably gave some evasive answer, or one that would permit gaining time.
COL.AMEN: Now, was this question later discussed by you at any time?
LAHOUSEN: According to my recollection, this question was once more discussed in August. The exact date can be found in my notes. Canaris telephoned me in my private apartment one evening and said impatiently that Keitel was urging him again about Giraud, and the section chiefs were to meet the next day on this question. The next day the conference was held and Canaris repeated in this larger circle what he had said to me over the phone the night before. That is, he was being continually pressed by Keitel that something must at last be done in this matter. Our attitude was the same as in the matter of Weygand. All those present rejected flatly this new demand to initiate and to carry out a murder. We mentioned our decision to Canaris, who also was of the same opinion and Canaris thereupon went down to Keitel in order to induce him to leave the Military Abwehr out of all such matters and requested that, as agreed prior to this, such matters should be left entirely to the SD. In the meantime, while we were all there, I remember Pieckenbrock spoke, and I remember every word he said. He said it was about time that Keitel was told clearly that he should tell his Herr Hitler that we, the Military Abwehr, were no murder organization like the SD or the SS. After a short time, Canaris came back and said it was now quite clear that he had convinced Keitel that we, the Military Abwehr, were to be left out of such matters and further measures were to be left to the SD. I must observe here and recall that Canaris had said to me, once this order had been given, that the execution must be prevented at any cost. He would take care of that and I was to support him.
COL.AMEN: I don't think you have yet told us just who was present at this conference.
LAHOUSEN: The three Abwehr chiefs were present, Colonel Pieckenbrock, whom I have already mentioned, Colonel General Bentivegni, and I. Probably, also General Oster, and possibly Buerckner, but I cannot remember clearly. In my notes only those three chiefs are mentioned who all strictly rejected the proposal.
COL. AMEN: What was the next occasion when this matter was again brought to your attention?
LAHOUSEN: A little later, it must have been September, the exact date has been recorded, Keitel, then chief of the OKW, rang me up in my private apartment. He asked me, "What about 'Gustav'? You know what I mean by 'Gustav'?" I said, "Yes, I know." "How is the matter progressing? I must know, it is very urgent." I answered, "I have no information on the subject. Canaris has reserved this matter for himself, and Canaris is not here, he is in Paris." Then came the order from Keitel, or rather, before he gave the order, he put one more question: "You know that the others are to carry out the order?" By "the others," he meant the SS and SD. I answered, "Yes, I know." Then came an order from Keitel to immediately inquire of Mueller how the whole matter was progressing. "I must know it immediately," he said. I said, "Yes," but went at once to the office of the Ausland Abwehr, General Oster, and informed him what had happened, and asked for his advice as to what was to be done in this matter which was so extremely critical and difficult for Canaris and me. I told him-Oster already knew as it was-that Canaris so far had not breathed a word to the SD concerning what it was to do, that is, murder Giraud. General Oster advised me to fly to Paris immediately and to inform Canaris and to warn him. I flew the next day to Paris and met Canaris at a hotel at dinner in a small circle, which included Admiral Buerckner, and I told Canaris what had happened. Canaris was horrified and amazed, and for a moment he saw no way out. During the dinner Canaris asked me in the presence of Buerckner and two other officers, that is, Colonel Rudolph, and another officer whose name I have forgotten, as to the date when Giraud had fled from Königstein and when the Abwehr III conference had been held in Prague and at what time the assassination of Heydrich had taken place. I gave these dates, which I did not know by memory, to Canaris. When he had the three dates, he was visibly relieved, and his saddened countenance took on new life. He was certainly relieved in every way.
LAHOUSEN: I must add that-at this important conference of the Abwehr III Heydrich was present. It was a meeting between Abwehr III and SD officials who were collaborating with it-officials who were also in the counterintelligence. Canaris then based his whole plan on these three dates. His plan was to attempt to show that at this conference he had passed on the order to Heydrich, to carry out the action. That is to say, his plan was to exploit Heydrich's death to wreck the whole affair. The next day we flew to Berlin, and Canaris reported to Keitel that the matter was taking its course, and that Canaris had given Heydrich the necessary instructions at the Abwehr III conference in Prague, and that Heydrich had prepared everything, that is, a special purpose action had been started in order to have Giraud murdered, and with that the matter was settled and brought to ruin.
COL.AMEN: There was a mistake I think in the translation back a little way. So if you don't mind, will you please go back to where you first referred to Heydrich in the conversation with Canaris, and repeat the story, because I think that the translation was incorrect. In other words, go back to the point where Canaris suddenly seemed relieved, and started to tell you what the apparent solution might be.
LAHOUSEN: All those present saw that Canaris was much relieved, as he heard the three dates from me. His whole plan or his maneuvering-and that was typical of his personality-was a purely intellectual or spiritual combination, built up on these three dates, essential being the date of the escape of Giraud, and the Abwehr III conference, for if the Abwehr III conference had taken place prior to Giraud's escape, then this combination would probably not have stood the test.
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Amen, what is the reason for the repetition?
COL.AMEN: There was a mistake in the record. If it is the wish of the Tribunal, I shall not have him repeat it any further.
THE PRESIDENT: It seems clear to the Tribunal what was said.
COL. AMEN: Very well.
COL.AMEN: What, if anything, happened next insofar as the affair Giraud was concerned?
LAHOUSEN: Nothing more happened. Giraud fled to North Africa, and much later only I heard that Hitler was very indignant about this escape, and said that the SD had failed miserably- so it is said to be written in shorthand notes in the records of the Hauptquartier of the Fuehrer. The man who told me this is in the American zone.
COL. AMEN: Were you acquainted with Colonel Rowehl?
LAHOUSEN: Yes.
COL.AMEN: Who was he?
LAHOUSEN: He was an officer. He was a colonel of the Luftwaffe.
COL.AMEN: What was the work of the special squadron to which he was attached?
LAHOUSEN: Rowehl had a special squadron for altitude flying which operated together with the Ausland Abwehr for the reconnaissance of certain territories or states.
COL. AMEN: Were you ever present when he reported to Canaris?
LAHOUSEN: I was present occasionally.
COL.AMEN: Do you recall what Rowehl told Canaris on those occasions?
LAHOUSEN: He reported on the results of the reconnaissance flights and submitted his photographs, I believe, to Abwehr I, Section Lust which, competent for this work, made some evaluation of them.
COL.AMEN: Did you know over what territories these reconnaissance flights had been made?
LAHOUSEN: They were taken over Poland, England and in southeastern Europe; I cannot be more explicit as I do not know the specific territories or countries of southeastern Europe. All I know is that this squadron was stationed in Budapest for the purpose of making such reconnoitering flights.
COL. AMEN: Did you personally see some of these photographs?
LAHOUSEN: Yes.
COL.AMEN: Now will you tell the Tribunal the dates when you know that these reconnaissance flights over London and Leningrad were being made?
LAHOUSEN: I cannot give the exact dates. I only remember, being present at discussions between Rowehl and Canaris-sometimes Pieckenbrock was there too-that these reconnaissance flights did take place in the aforementioned areas, that photographic material was furnished and that the squadron operated from Hungarian air fields in the vicinity of Budapest. I know this because once I myself flew back from Budapest to Berlin in such a plane, and also from knowing some of the pilots and their activities.
COL.AMEN: What I am going to ask you about now is the year, or years we will say, when these reconnaissance flights were being made. LAHOUSEN They were undertaken in 1939 before the beginning of the Polish campaign.
COL. AMEN: Were these flights kept secret?
LAHOUSEN: Yes, of course they were secret.
COL.AMEN: And why were these flights being made from Hungary, if you know?
LAHOUSEN: A Luftwaffe expert would have to give this information.
COL.AMEN: Do you have in your possession a report of the treatment of the Jews in certain territories?
LAHOUSEN: Yes, I have a report which probably came to us through Abwehr Department III, and I made several copies for Canaris and one for myself. This report deals with the shooting of Jews in Borrisov.
COL. AMEN: Is that an official report?
LAHOUSEN: Yes, it is. The report came by way of the Abwehr. The files would show from what office it came to us. In connection with these shootings of Jews in Borrisov the name of a counter-intelligence officer, whom I knew quite well and who was an Austrian like me, was mentioned.