dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
KALTENBRUNNER: As I have already said once, I have never had authority to sign on my own initiative a so-called order for execution, that is to say a death sentence. Apart from Hitler nobody in the whole Reich had such authority except Himmler and the Reich Minister of Justice.
DR. KAUFFMANN: With regard to this point, I wish to mention that the Prosecution have also presented execution orders which bore the signature of Muller. Do you want to say something about that?
KALTENBRUNNER: If an execution order had Muller's signature, Muller can have signed it only on the strength of an order from Himmler, or on the strength of a sentence submitted by a court.
DR. KAUFFMANN: It suggests itself to say that if Muller had authority to issue execution orders, then you ought to have had such authority to a much higher degree? Is that right?
KALTENBRUNNER: No, that is not so, because Himmler never gave me such power; also the setup of the chain of command-the State Police remained under Himmler after Heydrich's death even after I took office-would have contradicted that.
DR. KAUFFMANN: The incident referred to in this document is of such importance, particularly since foreign parachutists are involved, that one ought to suppose that it was known in the high offices in Berlin, that means also in the Reich Security Main Office. Did you receive no knowledge of the matter afterwards?
KALTENBRUNNER: I want to add the following statement: The incident definitely did not come to my knowledge.
THE PRESIDENT: Have you finished with Document L-51?
DR. KAUFFMANN: No, I am still concerned with Document L-51, but I am about to leave it.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, ought you not to refer him to the particular incident which is referred to toward the end of the document, where it says, "Concerning the American military mission which landed behind the German front in the Slovakian or Hungarian area in January 1945"? It goes on, then, to say that the-I think it was adjutant of the camp said, "Now Kaltenbrunner has approved of the execution. This letter was secret and had the signature, 'signed, Kaltenbrunner."' I think you should put that to him.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Yes, certainly. He knows the document, and I believe he knows every single word of this document, but I will put it to him again. [Turning to the defendant.] It says here: "I estimate the number of those persons captured to have been 12 or 15. They were wearing a uniform which was either American or Canadian, browngreen color, and blouse and beret. Eight to 10 days after their arrival, the order for their execution was received by means of a radio message, or a teletype. Standartenfuehrer Ziereis-that is the Camp Commandant-came to see me in my office and said: 'Now Kaltenbrunner has approved of the execution.' This letter was secret and had the signature, 'signed, Kaltenbrunner.' "These men were then shot on the spot, and their valuables were given to me by Oberscharfuehrer Niedermeyer." Would you, very briefly, go into this?
KALTENBRUNNER: It is completely out of the question that this incident was ever brought to my knowledge, or that it happened with my participation. This is not only plainly a crime against the laws of warfare, but it is, in particular, an action which could or necessarily had to produce the most serious foreign political consequences. Certainly, in such an incident it is out of the question that Muller or even I, myself, as Muller's superior, could have taken action; but in such a case thorough discussions must absolutely have taken place previously between Himmler, himself, and the Fuehrer. It is to be assumed, furthermore, that quite definitely someone -maybe the competent section for international law-would have been consulted on the subject first, and that such en action, of course, would have been decreed either by the Fuehrer or by Himmler. In any case, it would have been an order from one of these two personalities. However, even that is unknown to me. If, therefore, this man Zutter relates here that the order bore my signature, then this can only have been an order which, as I have described before, bore my name falsely since I never had authority to issue an order for execution. Therefore, the signature should have been "Himmler" or "By Himmler's order, Muller."
DR. KAUFFMANN: So that you attribute this signature also to a misuse? ~ '
KALTENBRUNNER: No, I believe that it does not concern my signature at all here, but that Ziereis should have said "Himmler." It cannot be assumed that Muller would have signed his or my name in such a way.
DR. KAUFFMANN: We are now coming to another subject. I am referring now to Document 1063(b)PS, Exhibit USA-492, which is a letter from the Reich Security Main Office, dated 26 July 1943. It has the signature, "Signed, Dr. Kaltenbrunner," and the letter is addressed to all Higher SS and Police Leaders. It refers to the establishment of correctional labor camps. Will you please look through the letter? The Prosecution charges you with the establishment of correctional labor camps. Please explain what your attitude really was, and state whether that letter originated from you.
KALTENBRUNNER: With regard to this point I have to make the following statement: I conclude from the fact that my name is typewritten that this order had not been shown to me before it went out: otherwise I would have signed it in handwriting.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Do you know of a Himmler order?
KALTENBRUNNER: As far as I can remember, I learned of it afterwards.
DR. KAUFFMANN: What is a correctional labor camp? Is it identical with a concentration camp?
KALTENBRUNNER: No, correctional labor camps were camps in which men were put if they were Germans, if they had dodged the compulsory labor service in spite of repeated reminders, or foreign workers who had left their place of work without permission and had been arrested, or workers who were caught during roundups on trains, railway stations, and roads, and who had no permanent labor contract. Confinement to such correctional labor camps covered a period of 14 to 56 days.
DR. KAUFFMANN: It says in this letter that these correctional labor camps, so far as administration and orders were concerned, are under the State Police offices and, furthermore, under the commanders of the Security Police and the SD. Did you have knowledge of that?
KALTENBRUNNER: A so-called breach of labor contract in the Reich or an evasion of the Compulsory Labor Service by a German citizen is an offense which actually could have been dealt with by the law courts just as well. The law had provisions to that effect but because of the enormous number of workers employed in the entire Reich-not only Germans, who amounted to 15 or 20 million, but also 8 million foreign workers-it would have been impossible to start hundreds of thousands of proceedings in courts, in hundreds of thousands of cases, for failure to work or breach of contract, or willful desertion from the place of work, et cetera. It goes without saying that furthermore the police departments had no kind of prison accommodations extensive enough to give short-term sentences in such cases. For these reasons such correctional labor camps were established at the headquarters of the State Police or Criminal Police offices.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Did you, in principle, approve of the establishment of such correctional labor camps?
KALTENBRUNNER: Yes, in principle I approved of them although I myself did not participate in issuing this order. I did, however, learn of it later and considered it proper in view of the labor shortage and the conditions then prevailing in the Reich.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Did you have knowledge regarding the treatment of the internees: for what period of time they were confined to these camps, what their food ration was, and how they were employed?
KALTENBRUNNER: As I said, these correctional labor camps were designed to impose confinement for a period not exceeding 56 days. Even this, I believe, was possible only after a man had previously been sentenced for 3 similar offenses. Normally, confinement to correctional labor camps...
THE PRESIDENT: The question was whether you knew the condition in the camps? You are not answering it at all.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Will you please answer my question?
KALTENBRUNNER: I think you asked me...
DR. KAUFFMANN: I asked you whether you knew anything regarding the treatment, the food, and the employment of the internees in these correctional labor camps?
KALTENBRUNNER: I knew only that correctional labor camps had the task of doing labor for public works, that is, in public construction work like roads, railroad maintenance, and, in particular, for repair of damage due to air raids. The internees of correctional labor camps have been seen by the entire population when so employed. The impression which the appearance of these internees made . . .
THE PRESIDENT: He still is not answering the question.
DR. KAUFFMANN: I put three exact questions to you. I want exact answers to these questions. Do you know anything about the treatment, the food rations, and the employment? Did you have any knowledge of this, "yes" or "no"?
KALTENBRUNNER: I said with regard to the employment...
DR. KAUFFMANN: Did you have knowledge?
KALTENBRUNNER: Yes, I did. The other two factors I did not know from personal observation.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Did officers of Amt IV ever report to you on this?
KALTENBRUNNER: Not officers of Amt IV; but this problem has, of course, been discussed repeatedly within the political home intelligence service, namely, about the utilization of such labor for emergency work.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Did you see no cause to interfere?
KALTENBRUNNER: I had no cause to interfere with these camps for any misuse, since no case of abuse of camp internees was known.
DR. KAUFFMANN: I am now coming to another document, Document Number 2542-PS, Exhibit Number USA-489. This is a statement, an affidavit by Lindow. He states that until the beginning of 1943, and by order of Himmler, Soviet Russian political commissars and Jewish soldiers were taken out of prisoner-of-war camps and transferred to concentration camps, to be shot. Furthermore, he states that Muller, the Chief of Aunt IV, had signed the execution order. If the Tribunal so desire, I shall quote a few sentences from this document. [To the defendant.] What is your statement with reference to this document?
KALTENBRUNNER: This order of Himmler's was not known to me, and may I point out that it was used from 1941 until 1943, which means, in the main, during the 'time when I was not in Berlin.
DR. KAUFFMANN: I am now reading a particularly incriminating passage-Paragraph 4. Will you please make a statement regarding the question whether this report on these facts also refers to the time after 1943 or to the time before 1943, or whatever you may be able to say about the date.
KALTENBRUNNER: I know the passage.
DR. KAUFFMANN: "In the prisoner-of-war camps at the Eastern Front, there were small Einsatzkommandos which were led by members of the Secret State Police of lower rank. These Kommandos were attached to the camp commandant and had the task of selecting those prisoners of war who were to be executed in accordance with the orders issued, and of reporting their names to the Gestapo office."
KALTENBRUNNER: About this, I...
DR. KAUFFMANN: One moment. From Paragraph 2, I am quoting the last paragraph: "These prisoners of war were first of all discharged as a matter of form and then taken to a concentration camp for execution." Now I am asking you what knowledge did you have of these facts?
KALTENBRUNNER: I had no knowledge of these facts. Moreover, it is impossible that I could have gained knowledge of them, of orders which were issued in 1941 and which, as this witness says, continued to be actually in force until the middle of 1943; it is impossible that, in order to stop the execution of these orders, during the last days, I could have in time...
DR. KAUFFMANN: But actually, it cannot be denied that within the Reich Security Main Office there was a Section IV A 1, that is, a part of the Gestapo, and that this section functioned from 1941 until the middle of 1943, and that it carried out such orders. It can be assumed obviously that you, too, must have been informed about this extremely grave situation, which was inhuman and prohibited by international law, does it not?
KALTENBRUNNER: I was not informed of it.
DR. KAUFFMANN: I am now turning to the subject of concentration camps and the responsibility of the defendant in that sphere.
THE PRESIDENT: We will adjourn now. [The Tribunal recessed until 1400 hours.] Afternoon Session
MR. DODD: Dr. Kauffmann has told me that he had an opportunity to read two cross-interrogatories which we wish to submit-the cross-interrogatories of Dr. Mildner and Dr. Hottl. I told Dr. Kauffmann that it might be well, in order not to disquiet the Defendant Kaltenbrunner, if they were read before he completed his examination.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you agree that it would be better that this crossexamination should be read now, so that the defendant can deal with any points he wishes to deal with?
DR. KAUFFMANN: Yes, that will be satisfactory.
COLONEL JOHN HARLAN AMEN (Associate Trial Counsel for the United States): The first affidavit, if it please the Tribunal is the affidavit of Dr. Rudolf Mildner: "I, the undersigned, Dr. Rudolf Mildner, made the following affidavit in answer to cross-interrogations by representatives of the Of lice of United States Chief of Counsel, relating to my affidavit of 29 March 1946, made in response to questions by Dr. Kauffmann for presentation to the International Military Tribunal: "Question Number 1: Confirm or correct the following biographical data: "Answer: In December 1939 I became Chief of the Gestapo Office in Chemnitz; in March 1941 I became Chief of the Gestapo Office in Katowice; in September 1943 I became Commander of the Sipo and SD in Copenhagen; in January 1944 I became Inspector of the Sipo and SD in Kassel; on 15 March 1944 I was made Deputy-Chief of Groups IV A and IV B of the RSHA; in December 1944 I became Commander of the Sipo in Vienna; in December 1944 I became Deputy Inspector of the Sipo in Vienna. "All of these appointments after January 1943 were made by Kaltenbrunner as Chief of the Security Police and SD. "Question Number 2: Is it not true that while you were Gestapo leader at Katowice you frequently sent prisoners to Auschwitz for imprisonment or execution; that you had contacts with the Political Department (Abteilung) at Auschwitz during the time that you were Chief of the Gestapo in Katowice with regard to inmates sent from the district of Katowice; that you visited Auschwitz on several occasions; that the Gestapo 'SS Standgericht' frequently met in Auschwitz and you sometimes attended the trial of prisoners; that in 1942 and again in 1943, pursuant to orders by Gruppenfuehrer Muller, Chief of Gestapo, the Commandant of Auschwitz showed you the extermination installations; that you were acquainted with the extermination installations at Auschwitz since you had to send Jews from your territory to Auschwitz for execution? "Answer: Yes, these are true statements of fact.
COLONEL JOHN HARLAN AMEN (Associate Trial Counsel for the United States): "Question Number 3: With respect to your answer to Question Number 5 in your affidavit of 29 March 1946, did all orders for arrest, commitment to punishment, and individual executions in concentration camps come from RSHA? Was the regular channel for orders of individual executions from Himmler through Kaltenbrunner to Muller, then to the concentration camp commandant? Did the WVHA have supervision of all concentration camps for administration, utilization of labor, and maintenance of discipline? "Answer: The answer is 'yes' to each of the three questions. "Question Number 3a: Is it true that conferences took place between SS Obergruppenfuehrer Kaltenbrunner and SS Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl, Chief of the WVHA and Chief of Concentration Camps? Was Dr. Kaltenbrunner acquainted with conditions in the concentration camps? "Answer: Yes, and because of these conferences and on the occasion of discussions with the two Amt chiefs-Gruppenfuehrer Muller, IV, and Gruppenfuehrer Nebe, RSHA, the Chief of Sipo and SD-SS Obergruppenfuehrer Dr. Kaltenbrunner should be acquainted with conditions in concentration camps. "I learned from SS Gruppenfuehrer Muller, Chief of Amt IV, that regular conferences took place between RSHA and Amt Group D of WVHA. "Question Number 4: Is it not a fact that in July or August of 1944 an order was issued to commanders and inspectors of the Sipo and SD by Himmler through Kaltenbrunner, as Chief of the Sipo and SD, to the effect that members of all Anglo-American Commando groups should be turned over to the Sipo by the Armed Forces; that the Sipo was to interrogate these men and shoot them after questioning; that the killing was to be made known to the Armed Forces by a communiqué stating that the Commando group had been annihilated in battle; and that this decree was classified top secret and was to be destroyed immediately after reading? "Answer: Yes.
COLONEL JOHN HARLAN AMEN (Associate Trial Counsel for the United States): "Question Number 5: With respect to your answer to Question Number 7 of your affidavit of 29 March 1946, is it not a fact that: "a) After you sent a telegram to Muller requesting that the Jewish persecution be stopped, you received an order by Himmler that the Jewish actions were to be carried out? "b) That you then flew to Berlin for the purpose of talking with the Chief of the Sipo and SD, Kaltenbrunner, personally, but that since he was absent you saw his deputy, Muller, Head of Office IV of the RSHA, who, in your presence, wrote a message to Himmler containing your request that the persecutions of the Jews in Denmark be stopped? "c) That shortly after your return to Copenhagen you received a direct order by Himmler sent through Kaltenbrunner as Chief of the Sipo and SD, stating that 'The Anti-Jewish actions are to be started immediately'? "d) That for the purpose of carrying out this action the Sonderkommando Eichmann, which was under the Gestapo, was sent from Berlin to Copenhagen for the purpose of deporting the Jews in two ships which it had chartered? "Answer: Yes, to each question-a), b), c), and d). "Question Number 6: Is it not a fact that the action of Sonderkommando Eichmann was not a success; that Muller ordered you to make a report explaining the causes for the lack of success in deporting of Jews; and that you sent this report directly to the Chief of the Sipo and SD, Kaltenbrunner? "Answer: Yes. That is right. "I have read the above questions and answers as written and swear they are true and correct...."-et cetera. And now, may it please the Tribunal, the cross-affidavit of Wilhelm Hottl...
THE PRESIDENT: [To the defendant.] Did you want to say something?
KALTENBRUNNER: I wanted to ask the High Tribunal for permission to reply immediately to this interrogatory, so that I...
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, you will have an opportunity in a moment. The purpose of having it read now was that your counsel might ask you any questions with reference to it, and then you can make any comment that you want to. Colonel Amen will go on and read the other cross-interrogatory, and then your own counsel will continue your examination-in-chief. Do you understand?
KALTENBRUNNER: Yes, I understand. I merely wanted to suggest, since these two matters are treated separately and concern two different spheres, that I may first express my views and then later . . .
THE PRESIDENT: We cannot have the matter interrupted in that way. You will be able to deal with it in a moment. Go on, Colonel Amen.
COL. AMEN: The affidavit of Dr. Mildner dated 9 April 1946 will become Exhibit Number USA-791 and the affidavit of Wilhelm Hottl which I am about to read, dated 10 April 1946, will become Exhibit Number USA-792. "I, the undersigned, Dr. Wilhelm Hottl, make the following affidavit in response to cross-interrogation relating to an affidavit executed by me on 30 March 1946 answering questions put by Dr. Kauffmann for presentation to the International Military Tribunal. "1) With respect to question Number 3: Please give the following information: "a) Explain the basis of your statement that when persons belonging to the SD were transferred to the Einsatzkommandos of the Sipo and SD they resigned from the SD. Your attention is invited to the fact that Ohlendorf, the head of the SD, has testified to the contrary. "b) Explain the basis for your statement that Einsatzkommandos had nothing to do with executions. Your attention is invited to the fact that your testimony in this regard is likewise in direct conflict with the head of the SD, Ohlendorf. "c) What was Hitler's so-called 'Commissar order' and when did you first acquire knowledge of this order? "With respect to la): In my affidavit I did not speak of a permanent separation from the SD but of a leave of absence for the time of activity with an Einsatzkommando. By that was meant that they did not exercise their SD functions during this time; that this function was inactive. "With respect to lb): My affidavit appears to have been misunderstood concerning this point. I did not state that Einsatzkommandos had nothing to do with executions but only that not all Einsatzkommandos were concerned with executions. I mentioned as an example the Einsatzkommandos in Africa, Hungary, and Slovakia. In connection with that, I said that these Einsatzkommandos had nothing to do with executions; by that I meant not directly with the actual executions. "With respect to lc): I, myself, do not know the so-called 'Commissar Order' of Hitler. Dr.
COL. AMEN: Stahlecker, who commanded an Einsatzgruppe of the Sipo and the SD in Russia, told me in the summer of 1942 that the executions of commissars and Jews were carried out on the basis of the Commissar Order which covered the extermination of the Jews under the reason of their being bearers of Bolshevism. "2) With respect to question Number 4: Is it not a fact that Heydrich, as Chief of Sipo and SD, gave the initial instructions to Eichmann concerning the extermination of Jews; that in the RSHA Eichmann's immediate superior was Muller, Chief of the Gestapo; that Muller was first the deputy of Heydrich and later of Kaltenbrunner? "With respect to 2): Yes, I heard from Eichmann, probably in August 1944, that Heydrich had given him these directives. It is also correct that Muller, Chief of the Gestapo, was Eichmann's immediate superior. As far as I know, Muller was the deputy of Heydrich and later of Kaltenbrunner only in the field of the Gestapo, as likewise were the other office chiefs in their respective fields. "3) With respect to question Number 5: Is it not a fact that you know from your discussions with Kaltenbrunner and with Eichmann that they came from the same community in Austria and were exceptionally close friends; that Eichmann always had direct access to Kaltenbrunner and that they frequently conferred together; that Kaltenbrunner was well pleased with the manner in which Eichmann carried out his duties; that Kaltenbrunner was very interested in the extermination work performed by Eichmann; that you personally know that Kaltenbrunner went to Hungary for the purpose of discussing the extermination program in Hungary with officials of the Hungarian Government and with Eichmann and other members of his staff in Hungary? Please confirm or correct these statements and make any statement necessary to clarify your answer. "With respect to 3): I heard from Eichmann that he knew Kaltenbrunner from Linz and that they served there together in 1932 in an SS Sturm.