dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
COL. AMEN: AMEN: Well, you will see it on this exhibit which I ask you to be shown now, Document Number 3942-PS, which will become Exhibit Number USA-805. [The document was submitted to the defendant.] Defendant, this is a fairly long exhibit, which I do not want to go through in detail; but I first call your attention to the opening lines: "With respect to the occupation of Czechoslovakia, I recall that there were two different actions taken: the first one for the occupation of the Sudetenland and the border districts inhabited by German nationals; the second one for the occupation of Czechoslovakia proper...." And the following lines: "Some time before the second action, officers of HIinka Guard (the illegal organization resembling the SS in the Slovakian part of Czechoslovakia) came to the office of SS Corps Area Danube, which at the time may still have had its original name of SS Oberabschnitt Osterreich." Then follow the details of the plans for inciting this revolt. Then, coming to the end of the first paragraph, you will find the following: "There were secret meetings to which I was not invited. I felt that I was not fully trusted. I saw the gentlemen only in Kaltenbrunner's anteroom and, as far as I can remember, in the dining room. I was told nothing about the object of the discussions which referred, without doubt, to the imminent action." 359 12 April 46 Then he gives his reasons. And, passing to the second page, in the center, you will find the following: "Kaltenbrunner alone was responsible for this action. In charge of the action was SS Standartenfuehrer Spacil (nicknamed Spatz) as far as the General SS is concerned. He was chief of the administration of SS Corps Area Danube and was called later on by Kaltenbrunner to Berlin and made administration chief at the Reich Security Main Office.
COL. AMEN: Spacil was one of Kaltenbrunner's most intimate friends." Then, at the close, Paragraph 1 and 2, and subdivisions: "I have made this statement: "(1) Not from a feeling of revenge or because I want to be an informer, but in the knowledge that in so doing I can serve in detecting crimes which I, as a German, am ashamed of; "(2) With the full consciousness that because of my statements I will be slandered by the other side. I know the men who for years have been after me. But this shall not deter me from helping the spirit of justice to a victorious end." I ask you whether the substance of that document, as I have given it to you, is true or false? KALTENBRUNNER: Neither true or false; it is ridiculous and consequently untrue. The document can best be characterized by drawing attention to the fact that on the first page in the introduction it says: ". . . the second one for the occupation of Czechoslovakia proper (called afterwards the Protectorate of Bohemia-Moravia and the Slovakian State)." The fact that the Republic of Slovakia has never, in the course of history, been occupied by the German Reich is sufficient to reveal the ignorance of this witness, Mundhenke, who comes from North Germany and knows nothing about history or about politics. But this document contains so many details which can be clarified almost humorously that it becomes utterly worthless. I would like to call your attention to Page 3 of the German text and explain to you who were the men responsible for the individual big political actions which led to the occupation of Czechoslovakia. The first is a Franz Kourik who was a chauffeur. The second is Karl Spitt also a chauffeur. The third is an SS man whose name is Apfelbeck, son of an innkeeper and a butcher by trade, and who worked as an assistant official in the administration after he had suffered a grave skull injury in a motor accident. Stadler, a small bookkeeper, and the man Petenka are unknown to me. 360 12 April 46 These men are supposed to have prepared, with me, the occupation of Slovakia by the Reich.
COL. AMEN: That is utter nonsense. Excuse me for calling it so, Mr. Prosecutor, but it is and remains... COL. AMEN: Very good, Defendant. All right. That is nonsense. KALTENBRUNNER: One thing is true in this document and I want to come to that. I was with members of the Hlinka Guard in this house in Vienna, Park Ring 8, and I did hold a conference with them. This dealt with the union of the group of racial Germans in Slovakia and the Hlinka Guard, with a view to nominating joint candidates in the Slovakian Government. Documents prove it and files, in Pressburg at least, where my name was sufficiently known. Everybody knows it there and can confirm it, including this man Mundhenke, the leader of the racial group. But as an occupation of Slovakia never took place at all, in my opinion there is no need for me to defend myself against this accusation. COL. AMEN: Defendant, in the course of this Trial the order of Himmler to the effect that the civilian population should not be punished for lynching Allied airmen has been introduced in evidence, and you have heard the sworn statement of Schellenberg and Gerdes to the effect that you, in your capacity as Chief of the Security Police and SD, issued such instructions to your subordinates. Do you deny these statements? "Yes" or "no," please. KALTENBRUNNER: I do not wish to deny them, but I emphatically state that I never gave any such instructions, and I ask the Tribunal to allow my counsel to read the paper which I gave to him at the beginning of the session. This contains literally the testimony of the witness Koller, the Chief of Staff of the Luftwaffe, defining my general attitude towards this problem-that even in the presence of Hitler I declared, "I will not obey such an order." mat took place somewhat later, but it shows my own personal feelings about the matter. I made a statement to my counsel already yesterday about this question. COL. AMEN: All right, Defendant; now take a look at Document Number 3855-PS, which will become Exhibit Number USA-806.
COL. AMEN: This bears your own name at the bottom, whether it be a signature, facsimile, or anything else you choose to call it. Have you the document before you? KALTENBRUNNER: Yes. COL. AMEN: You will note that it comes from the Chief of the Security Police and of the SD, and according to the notes in the upper lefthand portion was prepared for your signature by Amt IV A 2 B. Number 220/44 g RS. KALTENBRUNNER: That is, Mr. Prosecutor, the first and a very grave mistake. 361 12 April 46 COL. AMEN: All right. "a) To all commanders and inspectors of the Security Police and the SD (for oral communication to the subordinated of fires); "b) To Groups IV A and IV B. Sections IV A 1, IV A 3, IV A 4 IV A 6, IV B 1 IV B 4; "c) To Office V, Reich Criminal Police Office, for information to the Higher SS and Police Leaders, to the Chief of the Under Police; "d) To Chiefs of Offices IIII and IV of the Reich Security Main Office. "Subject: Treatment of enemy airmen who have bailed out. "Reference: none. "A series of questions dealing with the treatment of enemy airmen who have been shot down needs clarification: "I. As a general rule captured enemy airmen are to be shackled. This measure is necessary and is made with the full consent of the Chief of the High Command of the Armed Forces; a) in order to prevent frequent escapes, and b) in view of the severe shortage of personnel at the collecting stations. "II. Enemy air crews, who a) offer resistance when captured, or b) wear civilian clothes under their uniforms are to be shot at once when captured. "III. Most enemy airmen, especially of the Anglo-American air forces, carry with them escape bags filled with daggers, various kinds of maps, ration coupons, tools for escape, et cetera. "It is absolutely necessary that escape bags be secured by the Police, as they are of the greatest assistance when making a search. They must be given to the Luftwaffe.. IV.
COL. AMEN: The order of the Reichsfuehrer SS of 10 August 1943" -which I believe you also testified you know nothing about_ "is not being carried out in full, as it has probably not been passed on orally, as ordered, to the subordinate police offices. "It is therefore repeated: It is not the duty of the police to interfere in conflicts between the Germans and English and American 'terror-fliers' who have bailed out. "V. Near the body of an English airman who had been shot down a brassard with the inscription 'Deutsche Wehrmacht' and an official stamp was found. This brassard is only worn by combat troops, and it gives the bearer access to all military and strategically important points in the various operation 362 12 April 46 zones. Parachuted enemy agents will probably make use of this new means of camouflage. "VI. During the past months individual cases have shown that the German population does seize enemy airmen but afterwards, while waiting for them to be handed over to the police or the Armed Forces, it does not use the proper restraint. Too strict measures on the part of the State Police against these citizens would keep them from seizing enemy airmen without restraint, since these cases must not be confused with the criminal act of helping escaped enemy airmen. "Reichsfuehrer SS has ordered the following measures to be applied to citizens who conduct themselves in a dishonorable manner towards captured enemy airmen either out of bad intentions or misunderstood pity: "1) In especially severe cases, transfer to a concentration camp; announcement in the newspapers of the district "2) In less severe cases, protective custody for not less than 14 days at the competent State Police office; employment in the clearing of damaged areas. Should there be no damaged area affording such employment within the jurisdiction of one State Police office, the short term protective custody sentence is to be served at the nearest State Police office, et cetera.
COL. AMEN: "The Reichsfuehrer SS has contacted Reichsleiter Bormann in this matter and has pointed out that it is the duty of the Party officials to instruct the population to observe absolutely necessary restraint towards enemy airmen. "3) I leave it to the commanders and inspectors of the Security Police, and the SD to notify in writing the subordinated offices of Sections V and VI of the above decree. "Signed: Dr. Kaltenbrunner; Certified: Rose, of lice clerk." Do you deny having had anything to do with the issuance of that document? Do you deny that you signed it? KALTENBRUNNER: This order was never submitted to me. I refer you to what I said yesterday concerning questions of direction and issuing of orders in the Secret Police office, Amt IV A which appears at the head of the letter indicating that it formulated it. In these matters this Amt was directly subordinated to Himmler. THE PRESIDENT: I have not heard the answer to the question. Did you sign it? KALTENBRUNNER: No. COL. AMEN: You deny your signature and you deny knowing anything about this document bearing your name, is that correct? KALTENBRUNNER: Mr. Prosecutor, I . have . . . 363 12 April 46 COL. AMEN: Will you answer that, Defendant? You deny this document just like you have denied every other document that has been shown to you today, is that correct? KALTENBRUNNER: I already stated yesterday, and also told my defense counsel, that these documents were never submitted to me. I should know it today. To a certain degree I am to blame for not having paid more attention as to whether such orders were issued in my name. I never denied yesterday that I was partly to blame in this respect but my position to this question can be clearly seen from Koller's testimony. THE PRESIDENT: I do not understand. Are you saying that the signature on the document is not yours, or that you may have signed it without looking at the decree? Which are you saying? KALTENBRUNNER Your Lordship, this document and this decree were never submitted to me.
COL. AMEN: To sign such a document would have been completely against my inner attitude towards the entire problem. My attitude in this matter can be seen from Koller's testimony. THE PRESIDENT: I am not asking you what your inner attitude is. I am asking you whether the name on it is written by your hand. KALTENBRUNNER: No. THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal would like to look at the document. COL. AMEN: It is a typewritten signature, Your Lordship. THE PRESIDENT: Yes; let us look at the document. Defendant, who is Rose? KALTENBRUNNER: I do not know, Your Lordship. THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Amen, can you give any idea holy long you wilt be with your crossexamination? COL. AMEN: Perhaps half an hour, depending on the answers of the defendant. THE PRESIDENT: Very well. Then the Tribunal will adjourn. We will sit tomorrow at 10 o'clock to continue this part of the case, and will adjourn at half past 12 in order to hear Dr. Thoma and the Prosecution upon his documents. [The Tribunal adjourned until 13 April 1946 at 1000 hours.] 364
KALTENBRUNNER: It is not true, insofar as witness Stroop is one step closer to my story, for on Page 1 he declares he had received the orders regarding the Warsaw Ghetto from Himmler and this is something which Kaleske has never said anywhere.
COL. AMEN: I will accept that, Defendant.
KALTENBRUNNER: An interrogation of General Stroop will clarify this point completely, also that Hahn had, of course, received orders from the Gestapo in Berlin; whether in this matter, too, I do not know, since as a matter of course the offices of the Security Police had also to be at the disposal of Amt IV, particularly as far as support in legal proceedings was concerned. But what matters here, in an action taking place in the Government General and in Warsaw, is the question of what organizations were involved in this action and all witnesses versed in these matters will have to agree that this was within the jurisdiction of the Higher SS and Police Leader in the Government General, not to the Reich Security Main Office. It is completely incorrect that these Security Police forces in Warsaw and officials such as Hahn were not subordinate to the SS and Police Leader. It can be testified to and ascertained that all Security Police offices, especially where an action of this kind was involved, could have only one leader and that was the local leader. But if, Mr. Prosecutor, you would give me again the opportunity of defining my position to these witnesses' statements more comprehensively through my defense counsel I could come back to this matter properly.
COL. AMEN: And now, Defendant, I want to refer you to Document 3819-PS, which is already in evidence as GB-306, which are notes of a conference in the Reich Chancellery on 11 July 1944, signed by Lammers and the subject of testimony before this Tribunal the other day. You recall having attended that meeting I presume. [The document was submitted to the defendant.]
KALTENBRUNNER: I do not know yet. I do not know the purpose of that meeting.
COL. AMEN: You do not deny that you were there, do you?
KALTENBRUNNER: I do not know. This is the first time I have seen this document.
COL. AMEN: Now, look at Page 12, in the middle of the page, the. sentence there, "In Paris, the evacuation of which was considered . . ."
DR. KAUFFMANN: Mr. President, may I ask for clarification of the question, whether it might have been more appropriate and correct if the Prosecution had questioned Lammers about this matter when Lammers was here on the witness stand.
THE PRESIDENT: Was this put to Lammers?
COL. AMEN: Frankly, Your Lordship, I do not know. The document was introduced and identified, and I am not sure whether he was asked about it or not. Sir David says that he introduced the document with Keitel, at the foot of Page 9.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, go on.
COL. AMEN: Have you found the place, Defendant?
KALTENBRUNNER: Yes, I have found the place.
COL. AMEN: "In Paris, the evacuation of which was considered, 100,000 to 200,000 workers could be recruited. In this connection . . ."
KALTENBRUNNER: No, Mr. Prosecutor, I have not found the place.
COL. AMEN: Well, it is just above the paragraph which commences, "The Chief of the Security Police, Dr. Kaltenbrunner." Can you find that spot?
KALTENBRUNNER: Yes, I have it now.
COL. AMEN: Well, passing to that sentence: "The Chief of the Security Police, Dr. Kaltenbrunner, declared himself willing, when asked by the Plenipotentiary General for the Allocation of Labor, to place the Security Police at his disposal for this purpose, but pointed out their numerical weakness. For the whole of France he had only 2,400 men available. It was questionable whether entire age groups could be recruited with these weak forces. In his opinion, the Foreign Office must exercise a stronger influence on the foreign governments." Is that a true reflection of what took place at that meeting, Defendant?
KALTENBRUNNER: I cannot say that concerning the wording of the document, but I might say in explanation that according to the introduction on Page 1 it was a "Cheftesprechung" (discussion of chiefs), and that does not mean me, for I was Chief of the Reich Security Main Office. "Chetbesprechung" means the ministries and the chief Reich departments. By questioning the witness Lammers it would have to be determined whether I was there on the orders of the Ministry of the Interior and Chief of the German Police, Himmler. That would have been possible. That I was there on the instruction of Himmler seems to become evident for me from the number mentioned. It mentions here that only 2,400 men were at our disposal. Neither the Security Police nor the SD, nor both together, ever had any number like that at their disposal. It must have included all the forces, even the Order Police and other small organizations, which were subordinate to Himmler. Therefore, one thing, at least, is missing in this document; that is the explanation that Kaltenbrunner, on orders of Himmler, was giving Himmler's views; that at least is missing. But by questioning the witness Dr. Lammers, I am sure we can clarify this matter. In any case, I would like to point out that it was my opinion that I could not be helpful in this matter because, first of all, negotiations between the Foreign Office and the competent foreign-that is, the French Government, were necessary. Measures to be taken there could not be introduced without the consent of the French Government.
COL. AMEN: All right, Defendant. Now, do you recall evidence given before this Tribunal about efforts made by Germany to incite the Slovaks to revolt against Czechoslovakia and that Hitler used the insurgency of the Slovakians as one of the excuses for occupying Czechoslovakia in March of 1939?
KALTENBRUNNER: I do not know who testified to that.
COL. AMEN: Well, in any event, during the year 1938 to 1939 it is a fact, is it not, that you were the State Secretary for Security in Austria? Is that right?
KALTENBRUNNER: No, I was not State Secretary for the Security Police. I was State Secretary for the security system of the Austrian Government at, Vienna, and there is an essential difference, because the Security Police in Austria was instituted and directed from Berlin.
COL. AMEN: Well, all right.
KALTENBRUNNER: And in Austria I had not the slightest influence-nor even my Minister-on the Security Police.
COL. AMEN: When did you become Supreme SS and Police Leader for Upper Austria with your headquarters in Germany?
KALTENBRUNNER: That is a complete misstatement. In Upper Austria there was no Supreme SS and Police Leader, only in Austria.
COL. AMEN: Well, when was it?
KALTENBRUNNER: That was after the liquidation of the Austrian Government and after its affairs had been settled; that can be verified exactly from the Reichsgesetzblatt. It was probably In the summer of 1941.
COL. AMEN: And is it not a fact that you, yourself, directed the activity of the Slovakian rebels and assisted them with explosives and ammunition? Answer that "yes" or "no," please.
KALTENBRUNNER: No.
COL. AMEN: Do you recall having participated in any conference with respect to a plan for instigating this revolt of Slovakia?
KALTENBRUNNER: It is not correct; I did not participate in instigating anything like that in Slovakia. I did take part in the first Government conferences in Slovakia and in the presence of the Delegate of the German Reich.
COL. AMEN: Did your friend Spacil assist you in carrying out these plans?
KALTENBRUNNER: That I cannot recall today. In any case, they were not German plans. If you investigate the political situation in Slovakia at that time, you will clearly see that it did not need any instigation on the part of the German Reich. The Hlinka movement then under the leadership of Dr. Tuka and also of Dr. Tiso, I believe, had made this decision a long time ago.
COL. AMEN: Were you acquainted with Obersturmbannfuehrer Fritz Mundhenke?
KALTENBRUNNER: I did not quite catch the name.
COL. AMEN: Well, you will see it on this exhibit which I ask you to be shown now, Document Number 3942-PS, which will become Exhibit Number USA-805. [The document was submitted to the defendant.] Defendant, this is a fairly long exhibit, which I do not want to go through in detail; but I first call your attention to the opening lines: "With respect to the occupation of Czechoslovakia, I recall that there were two different actions taken: the first one for the occupation of the Sudetenland and the border districts inhabited by German nationals; the second one for the occupation of Czechoslovakia proper...." And the following lines: "Some time before the second action, officers of HIinka Guard (the illegal organization resembling the SS in the Slovakian part of Czechoslovakia) came to the office of SS Corps Area Danube, which at the time may still have had its original name of SS Oberabschnitt Osterreich." Then follow the details of the plans for inciting this revolt. Then, coming to the end of the first paragraph, you will find the following: "There were secret meetings to which I was not invited. I felt that I was not fully trusted. I saw the gentlemen only in Kaltenbrunner's anteroom and, as far as I can remember, in the dining room. I was told nothing about the object of the discussions which referred, without doubt, to the imminent action." Then he gives his reasons. And, passing to the second page, in the center, you will find the following: "Kaltenbrunner alone was responsible for this action. In charge of the action was SS Standartenfuehrer Spacil (nicknamed Spatz) as far as the General SS is concerned. He was chief of the administration of SS Corps Area Danube and was called later on by Kaltenbrunner to Berlin and made administration chief at the Reich Security Main Office.
COL. AMEN: Spacil was one of Kaltenbrunner's most intimate friends." Then, at the close, Paragraph 1 and 2, and subdivisions: "I have made this statement: "(1) Not from a feeling of revenge or because I want to be an informer, but in the knowledge that in so doing I can serve in detecting crimes which I, as a German, am ashamed of; "(2) With the full consciousness that because of my statements I will be slandered by the other side. I know the men who for years have been after me. But this shall not deter me from helping the spirit of justice to a victorious end." I ask you whether the substance of that document, as I have given it to you, is true or false?