dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
BOHLE: No, we did not have any such transmission or wireless stations. Reports either came through courier in special cases or were brought by individuals to Germany.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: After the war started, did your organizations continue in neutral countries?
BOHLE: Yes.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Did they never have wireless sets reporting back information?
BOHLE: I do not know anything about that. I do not believe they had them, for I would have had to know about it.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Now, I want to ask you about only one or two documents. Would you look at 3258-PS -- My Lord, that is the exhibit already in, GB-262; I have copies of the extract for the Tribunal and members of Defense Counsel. I expect you read English -- the book itself is coming.
BOHLE: Yes.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: There you have before you a copy of some extracts from it. Would you look at the bottom of the first page, last paragraph, commencing "In 1938..." Did you have a Landesgruppenleiter in the Netherlands by the name of Butting?
BOHLE: Yes.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Just pay attention to me for perhaps one moment before you look at that document. Do you know that Butting shared a house at The Hague with the military intelligence office? Do you know that?
BOHLE: No, I do not.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Now, I want to quote you quite shortly two paragraphs of this document, which is a report, published as an official United States publication, called "National Socialism, Basic Principles, Their Application by the Nazi Party's Foreign Organization, and The Use of Germans Abroad for Nazi Aims." I just want you to tell the Tribunal what you think first of all about this report, which is printed in that book: You say that you do not know anything about that?
BOHLE: Butting was Landesgruppenleiter of the Auslands-Organisation. I am hearing about this house -- or these two houses -- for the first time, that is quite new to me.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Very well. I will just go on. Do you know whether Butting assisted the military intelligence agent in Holland in any way like that?
BOHLE: I was told later that he aided in Holland. To what extent he helped him I do not know, for he had had no such mission from me.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I understand, he had no instructions but he was doing it. Just turn now to the last paragraph on that page, too: Do you know whether the members of your organization in Holland were given instructions to learn about every canal, lock, bridge, viaduct, railway, and so on?
BOHLE: No, I had not the least idea of this.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Very well. I want you to be quite clear. I am putting to you that your organization was in the first place an espionage system reporting information of importance back to the Reich, and, in the second place, it was an organization aimed to help, and which did help, your invading German armies when they overran the frontiers of their neighboring states. Do you understand those two points?
BOHLE: Yes, indeed.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Did your organization publish an annual book, your Year Book of the Foreign Organization ?
BOHLE: Yes.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: And did that book contain information as to the activities of your organization during the year?
BOHLE: Partially, yes.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I suppose that the Tribunal would be safe in assuming that what was published in that book was accurate information?
BOHLE: One may assume that.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Will you look at the Year Book for 1942 ? I have copies of the extracts. Would you turn to Page 37 of that book? If you look back one or two pages in the book, you will find that that is an article entitled "The Work of the Norway Branch of the Auslands-Organisation in the War." Is that written by your Landesgruppenleiter in Norway?
BOHLE: I assume so, I cannot recall this.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Will you look at Page 37, and you will see that there are some passages in the book that you have in front of you that have been lightly marked in pencil along the side.
BOHLE: Yes, I have it.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Will you find the paragraph which starts, "Therefore, soon after the outbreak of war in September 1939..." Have you got that?
BOHLE: Yes, I have it.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Perhaps you will be so kind as to follow me.
BOHLE: Yes, I am following you.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Why, in September '39, was it necessary for the Party to increase its organization in Norway with people having higher knowledge of the country and language? Answer me that before you read on. You need not worry about the rest; we are going to deal with it. Why was it necessary in 1939 to enlarge your organization?
BOHLE: In Norway, as far as I recall, there were only 80 members of the Party in all, and it goes without saying that after the outbreak of the war the official agencies, not only of Germany but also, as you know, those of other states, were enlarged and were assisted by national elements, who knew the country concerned. That did not hold true for Germany alone but for all the nations participating in the war.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Yes. I still do not understand why your perfectly harmless organization should have found it necessary to increase its membership with people who had a profound knowledge of the language and the country. Why should the Auslands-Organisation have found it necessary?
BOHLE: Because the Reich agencies needed Germans who knew the country and the people, especially to furnish information on the German targets of attack in Norway -- exactly what every other nation did, too.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Well, your answer is, is it, that you required them to tell you about targets in Norway? Is that your answer?
BOHLE: No, I did not say that. I said that they were to be at the disposal of the agencies in Norway in case they were needed for public enlightenment, that is for German propaganda purposes among the Norwegians. I would like to emphasize once again that that was done not only by Germany but, of course, by all the warring countries.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Very well, let us go on and see what happens next: Tell me, was finding out and reporting about the Norwegian people, was that an "often dangerous task"?
BOHLE: Certainly not.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: What, then, were the often dangerous tasks which your own Landesgruppenleiter is saying members of his organization were undertaking from the very moment war broke out, in September '39?
BOHLE: I cannot tell you anything about that, for I have no knowledge whatsoever about this and I cannot conceive any of these dangerous tasks. I have the impression from this article, which, incidentally I did not know about until now, that the Landesgruppenleiter had the plausible desire to give more importance to his organization than it had in reality.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: But you say you did, not know about this. This appeared in the official yearbook of your organization. Did you never read what appeared in that book?
BOHLE: Certainly not everything, for I am not familiar with this article.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: You have told us that the members of your organization took no part in this. What about the people who were responsible for publishing that book? Did they not ever draw your attention to an article of that kind?
BOHLE: Obviously not.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Just look at the next little paragraph: What work was revealed on the 9th of April? What work which had been done with all secrecy was revealed on the 9th of April, work carried out by members of your organization?
BOHLE: I am sorry I cannot reply, for I have no knowledge whatsoever of this. I do not know.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I see. Will you look down to the last paragraph of that page? It is the second sentence -- four, five lines down -- at the end of the fifth line. I beg your pardon. You have the book in front of you. Will you look at Page 40 of the book? In the center of a paragraph the last word of one of the lines starts with "According to the task plan..." Have you got it? It is Page 40. To save time, let me read it: It does not sound, does it, like plans being made for different phases of an operation? It does not sound, does it, as if the work of your organization had been simply finding out about Norwegian people?
BOHLE: That might have been since this is entirely new to me, exclusively an agreement within the country itself with military or other authorities. I have had no knowledge of it up to this moment.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: So I understand you to say. But you were the head of this organization, were you not?
BOHLE: Yes.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: You have come before this International Tribunal and given them evidence, presumably saying you are in a position to give them truthful and accurate evidence; is that so?
BOHLE: Yes.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Do you understand that?
BOBLE: Yes, I have understood that.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Well, then, do I understand you to say now that you do not know what was happening in your organization, and therefore you are not in a position to give evidence as to whether or not it was a Fifth Column business?
BOHLE: It is quite evident that in an organization of this size the leader, who has his office at Berlin, cannot be closely acquainted with everything which is going on abroad and, more so, what is done against his instructions. I did not have the same disciplinary authority over my Party members abroad as did, for instance, some Gauleiter within the Reich. I need not elaborate on that, because it is self-evident. It is also evident, and this I know, that some Germans abroad, who were called on because of their patriotism in individual cases let themselves be used for purposes without the knowledge of the Auslands-Organisation and against its explicit instructions.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: In the interest of time we will not pursue that particular sphere of activity in Norway, just in case it may have been an exception which you did not know about. Let me turn to something else. Will you look at Page 65 of that book? Is that an article by your Landesgruppenleiter in Greece?
BOHLE: Yes.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Is it in the form of a day-to-day diary of the activities of the Auslands-Organisation in Greece when German troops invaded that country?
BOHLE: Yes.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Will you look at Page 65? That is the heading. I beg your pardon. I do not know whether it comes directly under that heading. This is the Landesgruppenleiter talking: Do you know...
BOHLE: Yes, I even know all about this. It certainly must be evident that the moment German troops occupied a foreign city and freed the Germans living abroad who had been interned, the latter would put themselves at the disposal of the German troops and help them in every respect as guides, interpreters, or the like. That is certainly the most logical thing in the world.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: That is in fact what they did do, and the assistance that your organization appears to have given them is that it managed to organize them and get them ready to do it; is that not so? That is what your Landesgruppenleiter seems to be doing?
BOHLE: I did not understand this question. Will you please repeat it?
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Do you understand that it is your Landesgruppenleiter who is organizing the members of your organization, organizing them so that they can give their assistance most beneficially to the invading armies?
BOHLE: That is a completely wrong way to express it. The Landesgruppenleiter in Greece, who filled that post from 1934, could not possibly tell whether there was to be an invasion of Greece or not. That had not the slightest thing to do with the nature of his organization. The moment that German troops were in the country it stands to reason that they would welcome their countrymen, act as their hosts, and help them in every way. That was a patriotic duty taken for granted.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I see. Just turn to Page 66, the next page. Will you find the paragraph which commences "Meanwhile I organized the employment of all Party members to do auxiliary service for the Armed Forces." Do you have that?
BOHLE: I understand it ...
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: You had better find the place.
BOHLE: Where shall I find that place?
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: On Page 66. It is a new paragraph.
BOHLE: Yes, I have it now.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: "Meanwhile I organized the employment of all Party members to do auxiliary service for the Armed Forces." It really looks now as though the Landesgruppenleiter is organizing them, does it not?
BOHLE: In this instance, yes.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Did you yourself know of the organization and work that your Landesgruppenleiter had put in in Greece to assist your armies in semimilitary capacities, or was that another case like Norway which you did not know anything about?
BOHLE: The Landesgruppenleiter in Greece did not create a semimilitary organization, but set up of course in this instance an organization to aid the troops entering the country in a sector which was entirely civilian.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Very well; I just want to ask you about another matter. Have you got a document there which is a telegram from somebody called Stohrer, in Madrid?
BOHLE: Stohrer, yes.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Did Stohrer have something to do with the German Embassy in Madrid?
BOHLE: Stohrer was the German Ambassador himself; Doctor Von Stohrer.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: This is dated 23 October 1939. Just let us see what it says: Were you telling the truth to this Tribunal when you told them some 30 minutes ago that you had no knowledge of wireless sets being used by your organization?
BOHLE: Yes, because I have no knowledge of these transmitters, or their use; I must assume that it concerns apparatus of the embassy.
DR. SEIDL: The copy of the telegram, as I have it before me, does not indicate to whom this wire was addressed. The last sentence of the telegram leads one to assume that it was not in any case addressed to the witness. According to my opinion, I think the witness should next be asked whether he knew about this wire and to whom it was addressed.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Perhaps you will tell Dr. Seidl to whom the Ambassador in Madrid was likely to send a telegram on such matters as this?
BOHLE: To the Foreign Office at Berlin.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: And you, at that time, were State Secretary at the Foreign Office of Berlin, were you not?
BOHLE: Quite right, in October 1939.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Beneath his signature is set out the distribution to -- it mentions various persons in departments in the Foreign Office in Berlin. Is that so?
BOHLE: Yes.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: And are you saying now that all of those departments which were asked to submit this matter to you, that they all failed to do so?
BOHLE: No, I do not claim that. They surely would have done that.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Do you remember yourself seeing this telegram before?
BOHLE: I cannot recall it. I would have noticed it for I never heard anything about two secret transmitters in Spain. It would also be quite in order for me to admit it. But I cannot do so if I do not know it. The distribution under Number 3 mentions "State Secretary," but that does not mean me, but the State Secretary of the Foreign Office, the political one. My designation in the Foreign Office was: Chief A.O.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I can save you all that. I am not suggesting that that "State Secretary" means you; otherwise it would not be asked to be submitted to you. What I want to know is what you or your embassy workers, or both of you working together, wanted with two secret wireless transmitting sets in Spain in October 1939? Are you still saying that your organization was quite unconcerned in reporting back information of military importance?
BOHLE: Just how do you mean, "reporting back"?
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Are you telling the Tribunal -- I want you to be quite clear -- are you telling the Tribunal that your organization was not being used for espionage purposes in Spain?
BOHLE: Yes indeed, I am asserting that. A distinction must be made between certain members of the Auslands-Organisation who naturally without my knowledge -- I protested against this often enough -- were used abroad for such purposes. I had no objection to Germans abroad being utilized in time of war for such tasks, as was the case very frequently with all other countries. However, I did not want members or officials of the Auslands-Organisation to become involved. A distinction must . . .
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I do not want to stop you at all. I do not want to stop you. Go on if you have anything to say. But, in the interest of time, try and make it as short as possible.
BOHLE: It seems to me there is some confusion between the Auslands-Organisation as an organization and what certain Germans abroad did during the war as their patriotic duty. This seems to me to be the crucial point of the question.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Well, I will not argue about that. We see that your organization took sufficient interest to reproduce accounts of what they were doing in its official book. I just want to show you one thing further. [Turning to the President.] Well, I have one further document to put to this witness.
THE PRESIDENT: You may as well go on.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: It is a document which I have just had found. I have not had them copied. The Tribunal will forgive me if I read extracts from them? [Turning to the witness.] It is an original document you hold in your hand and it appears to be, does it not, a carbon copy of a letter from ...
THE PRESIDENT: Has Dr. Seidl got one?
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Yes, he has one in German. [Turning to the witness.] Is that a letter from your Landesgruppenleiter Konradi?
BOHLE: It seems to be a directive from Konradi, but not signed by him.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: If you will look at the end of the letter you will see that it is actually signed "Konradi," after the usual "Heil Hitler"...
BOHLE: The copy that I have is not signed.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Will you get that copy back? Perhaps these documents... [The document was taken from the witness to Lt. Col. Griffith-Jones.] It is in fact signed "Konradi." Show it to him. [The document was returned to the witness.]
BOHLE: It is not signed by Konradi, but typed in.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I am very much obliged to you. It is my fault for not making myself clear. I told you that we have here a carbon copy. A copy of a letter which was signed and sent by Konradi. That appears to be so, does it not?
BOHLE: That I do not know, for of course I do not know about all the letters written by Konradi.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: You can take it, so far as you are concerned, that that is a German document which has been captured, that it is this bit of paper that you are holding in your hand which was found by Allied troops and that bears a typewritten signature of Konradi, who was your Landesgruppenleiter in Romania; is that correct? You remember that you had a Landesgruppenleiter in Romania?
BOHLE: His name was Konradi.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: And is this a letter of instructions to the Zellenleiter in Constantsa?
BOHLE: Yes.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: It is dated the 25th of October 1939. Will you read the first paragraph? Does that mean Berlin?
BOHLE: Yes. Berlin.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: That means your office, does it not?
BOHLE: Yes, in my office, but not in my personal office.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: No, but is it in the office over which you had complete control?
BOHLE: Yes.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Agreed. I imagine, before we go on, that no orders would be issued from your head office at a conference of that kind which were contrary to your direction, would they?
BOHLE: Not on important things, naturally not.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: I am much obliged to you. So it appears that the direction given at the conference was confirmed in writing. Now perhaps you will turn over, or rather, you will miss out -- I am reading from copy -- the English, the next paragraph, and the next plus one paragraph, and go on to the paragraph com-mencing: I want you to be quite clear about this and keep it in mind. These are directions coming directly from your head office in Berlin. I think we can leave the rest of that. Do you remember your members in Romania being told to report everything? Everything they saw?
BOHLE: Yes, of course.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you have some more to read from this document? If so, we will adjourn now until 2 o'clock. [The Tribunal recessed until 1400 hours.]
MARSHAL: If it please the Tribunal, the Defendant Streicher is absent from this session.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Witness, will you look again at the document we were reading before the Court adjourned. Would you look at the paragraph which commences "as everywhere else it is extremely important to know where the enemy is and what he is doing." My Lord, I am not absolutely certain that I did not start reading.
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, yes, you had read that and the next one and the one at the top of Page 3 in the English text. At least I think you have. You read the one beginning "An important section."
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Perhaps I can start the paragraph commencing "An important section." Have you got that?
BOHLE: Yes.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Witness, doesn't that exactly describe the way in which the Auslands-Organisation was carrying on its business? Read it again: Doesn't that fit in with the directions that this Landesgruppenleiter of yours has been writing to his members in this document?
BOHLE: On the contrary, I find that this is clear proof of the fact that the organizations mentioned here were in a foreign espionage service and not in the German espionage service. My interpretation is the exact opposite of that of the British Prosecutor.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: Are you not giving instructions here, or is not your Landesgruppenleiter giving instructions, to carry out counterespionage -- the work that is carried on by the intelligence service? Isn't that what the writer is writing about so far?
BOHLE: The letter, with which I am not personally familiar, apparently instructs Germans abroad to turn in a report whenever they encounter the intelligence service at work. I do not think that any objection can be raised to that in time of war.
LT. COL. GRIFTITH-JONES: Very well. We will not go on arguing about it. I understand that you know nothing about the instructions which are contained in that letter. This is the first you have ever seen or heard of it; is that right?
BOHLE: No, this letter is new to me, and I do not know whether it is true, for there is no original here.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: May I take it then that, of the countries around Germany in which your organization worked, you have no knowledge of the activities that they were carrying out in Belgium? You have no knowledge of the activities that they were carrying out in Norway, none about what they were doing in Spain, and not very much about what they were doing in Romania either; is that correct?
BOHLE: No, that is not correct. Of course I knew of the activity of these groups abroad; but the particular activity that the British Prosecutor wishes to point out as the aim of the Auslands-Organisation is not quite clear to me.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH-JONES: If you had knowledge of any of their activities -- I understand from your evidence that you had none of the activities about which your own Auslands-Organisation Yearbook publishes a story. Both in Norway and Greece the activities were recounted in those two stories. You knew nothing about them at all; is that right?