dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: You have found the page -- Page 81. A meeting of the Supreme Party Court of the Party, and it begins with a report about the events and judicial proceedings in connection with the anti-Semitic demonstrations of 9 November 1938. If you look just after it says "Enclosure 2" it reads: ". . . it was understood by all the Party Leaders present from the oral instructions of the Reich Propaganda Minister that the Party should not appear outwardly as the instigator of the demonstrations but in reality should organize and execute them. "Instructions in this sense were telephoned immediately-thus a considerable time before transmission of the first teletype-- the bureaus of their districts (Gaue) by a large part of the Party members present." And if you will look on to the next paragraph but one: "At the end of November 1938 the Supreme Party Court, through reports from several Gau Courts, heard that these demonstrations of 9 November 1938 had gone as far as plundering and killing of Jews to a considerable extent and that they had already been the object of investigation by the Police and the public prosecutor." And then after that it says: "The deputy of the Fuehrer agreed with the interpretation of the Chief Party Court, that known transgression in any case should be investigated under the jurisdiction of the Party: "I) Because of the obvious connection between the events to be judged and the instructions which Reich Propaganda Minister Party member Dr. Goebbels gave in the town hall at the evening party of comrades. Without investigation and evaluation of these connections a just judgment did not appear possible. This investigation, however, could not be left to innumerable State courts." And then Paragraph 2 says that matters which concerned the vital interests of the Party should also receive Party clarification first and that the Fuehrer should be asked to cancel the, proceedings in the State courts.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Now ff you look on-I do not want to take too much time-you will see that there were then 16 cases which came up before the Supreme Party Court, and the first three cases are matters-oh, yes, there is just one point I should have drawn attention to. Just before you come to the first case: "Gau leaders and group leaders of the branches served-, as jurors at the trials and decisions. The decisions, which, for reasons to be discussed later, contain only in part the statements of the facts, are attached." The first three cases, which come from Rheinhausen, Niederwerrn, and Linz, are concerned with theft and rape. They are allowed to go on to the State courts. The next 13-which come from al l over Germany, very different places like Heilsberg, Dessau, Lesum, Bremen, Neidenburg, Eberstadt, Lilnen, Aschaffenburg, Dresden, Munich, and all over Germany-are 13 cases of murdering Jews. Two of the perpetrators get the very mild sentence of a warning and not being able to hold public office because of disciplinary violation, and as for the remaining 11, the proceedings are suspended against them. Now, I just want you to look at 102. If you will look at 6, that is the shooting of a Jewish couple called Goldberg; Number 7, the shooting of the Jew Rosenbaum and the Jewess Zwienicld; Number 10, shooting the Jewess Susanne Stern; and there is Number 5. Number 5 is the shooting of the 16-year-old Jew, Herbert Stein. Now, you say that you did not deal with any of these situations yourself, is that so?
KAUFMANN: I explained clearly that I gave orders to the contrary in my Gau.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Yes. I asked you, as I said at the beginning-I want you to tell the Tribunal about it generally how it is that the Court of your Party, which is supposed to deal with the discipline and decency of its members, passed over 13 cases of murder with two suspensions from public office for 3 years, and the remaining 11 cases with all action suspended. Do not you think that that was a disgraceful way to deal with murder?
KAUFMANN: May I say first that among the 13 cases which are quoted here, there is only one Political Leader.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, you are not right, you know. Cases 9 and 10 involve Ortsgruppenleiter; case 11 involves a Blockleiter. It is true that cases 2 to 8, 12, and 15 involve people with various ranks in the SA, and cases 11, 14, and 16 involve cases with people in the ranks of the SS. But actually I think you will find that cases 9, 10, and 11 involve the Political Leadership. But that is not my point, Witness; my point is this: Here are these members of the Party brought up before the Court of the Party, and the Court of the Party is condoning and conniving at murder. That is my point, and I want you to give your explanation as to why you connive and condone at murder.
KAUFMANN: I saw this document which has just been submitted to me for the first time only after I was brought here to the Palace of Justice as a witness. In view of my attitude toward the Jewish question and the Jewish measures, I did not under any circumstances approve such handling of cases as is mentioned here. I would never have approved of it if I had known about it.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: But, Witness, if that is your personal view, then let us leave your personal view for the moment. The Tribunal are considering the Leadership Corps of the Party. Here is the highest Court of the Party. If the highest Court of the Party gives decisions of that kind - of which you intensely disapprove, does not it show that the highest Court of the Party was rotten to its foundations?
KAUFMANN: The Supreme Party Court should have adopted a strong attitude toward the Fi1hrer. It apparently neglected to call to account the creator of the whole action, the instigator of all these excesses.
SIR DAVID MAXW-ELL-FYFE: I am not going to take it in complete detail; but I just want you to look at one paragraph of the explanation which the Party Court gives. The full explanation is there, on Page 87. [Turning to the Tribunal.] My Lord, that is the second paragraph. [Turning to the witness.] Will you turn to that? I am not sure where that will be. It will be a few pages on-112, I think, Witness. I just want you to try and help us on this point. Have, you got a paragraph that begins, "Also in such cases as when Jews were killed without an order (Enclosures 13, 14, and 15) or contriary to orders (Enclosures 8 and 9)..."? Now, mark the numbers...
KAUFMANN: No, I have not found that paragraph.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Would you try at Page 113? The sergeant will help you.
KAUFMANN: Yes.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Do you see: "Also in such cases"-it begins-"as when Jews were killed ,without an order (Enclosures 13, 14, 15) or contrary to orders (Enclosures 8 and 9) ignoble motives could not be determined. At heart the men were convinced that they had done a service to their Fuehrer and to the Party. Therefore, exclusion from the Party did not take place. The final aim of the proceedings executed and also the yardstick for critical examination must be, according to the policy of the Supreme Party Court, on the one hand, to. protect those Party comrades who, motivated by their decent National Socialist attitude and initiative, had overshot their mark and, on the other hand, to draw a dividing line between the Party and those who for personal reasons misused the Party's national liberation battle against Jewry ... Do you say that it is decent National Socialist attitude and initiative to murder Jewesses and children of 16?
KAUFMANN: My opinion in this matter is quite clear. I objected to the action, and I do not at all approve the viewpoint of the Party Court. I am convinced that the majority of the Party members are of the same opinion.
SIR DAVID ALAXWELL-FYFE: But it must mean, must it not, Witness-your own denunciation must mean that on the Party Court there were a number of men who were completely devoid of any moral sense whatever; is that so?
KAUFMANN: I cannot accept this rather far-reaching characterization. I personally never had anything to do with the Supreme Party Court, and I never had insight into its measures and judgments, particularly in these and similar cases.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I do not want to take time in trying to persuade you to condemn your old colleagues too highly, and therefore I will leave it at that, if you agree so far that you disapproved strongly of the action that was taken by that Party Court. I think you said that. If I understand you correctly, I shall not go into it further. Is that right?
KAUFMANN: I disapprove and reject the opinion of the Party Court as expressed in this document.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Now, I just want to show you that that was not an isolated example, and -- My Lord, if Your Lordship would be good enough to turn to Page 45 of the same book-no, My Lord, it is Page 46, 1 am sorry; and My Lord, the document begins on Page 45, but actually what I would like Your Lordship to, look at is on Page 47. It is either on Page 50 or 51, Witness, in the German copies. Now, that is a document dated the 7th of June 1933, issued by the Gau propaganda leader of the Gau Koblenz-Trier. You will see that it is issued to all Kreis directorates, and the subject is "Jew baiting." The first paragraph says that they will receive a list of Jewish firms and businesses, and the second paragraph says: "Jew baiting. "The district directorate (Kreisleitung) will set up a committee which has the task of directing and supervising the communities in the whole district. The strength of this committee will be determined by the Kreisleiter. You are to inform the Gau propaganda directorate at once of the committees named. The Gau propaganda directorate will then contact these committees through you." Then it goes on to suggest a considerable number of measures against Jews, including refraining from trading with them, and action against anyone who does trade. Now, that just happens to be a document which we captured from the Gau Koblenz-Trier. I want you to tell us just how that fits into the Party machinery. That goes from Gau propaganda to Kreis; then, I suppose, when the Party Leaders in the various Kreise would set up their committees, they would employ the Ortsgruppenleiter, or the Zellenleiter and the Blockleiter to form these committees. Is that how it would work?
KAUFMANN: The document which I have before me is a copy of a radio message. I did not know that it was common usage in the Gaue in 1933 to send such directives by radio, but assuming that this directive was actually issued, then it was a measure in the Gau Koblenz-Trier, which, to my knowledge, was not based on any order.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: But you are not suggesting that out of the 42 Gaue, Koblenz-Trier is the only Gau in which there was Jew baiting in 1933, are you?
KAUFMANN: No.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: , But what I asked you was, assuming the instructions from the Gau were carried out by the Kreis, would these committees be formed out of the Zellenleiter and Blockleiter of the various parts of the Kreis?
KAUFMANN: I must assume so from the document, if I can take it to be correct.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Yes, assuming that it is a verified captured document, am I right in assuming that the Kreisleiter of Koblenz-Trier carried out these instructions? Did they form the Jew baiting committees out of the Zellenleiter and Blockleiter?
KAUFMANN: Under no circumstances was that method, that measure, common usage throughout the Reich. Under no circumstances did the Reich authorities issue a directive to this effect, otherwise I would have known about it.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: If that is your answer I would not occupy the time. I just wanted to show what happened in 1933 and 1933. We will now take something that happened during the war-My Lord, if you will be good enough to turn to Page 27 and 28-Page 29 and 30, Witness.
KAUFMANN: Yes.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: You see that it is a document issued on the 5th of November 1942 regarding jurisdiction over Poles and Eastern nationals, and you can see that the jurisdiction is to be placed over-if I may just read the first paragraph to you to explain it: "The ReichsFuehrer SS has come to an arrangement with the Reich Minister of Justice, Thierack, whereby the courts will not ask for the usual legal procedure in the cases of Poles and Eastern nationals. These persons of alien race are in future to be handed over to the Police. Jews and gypsies are to be treated in the same way. This agreement has-been approved by the Fuehrer." And then it goes on to explain that the reason for the handing over of the Poles and for not giving them a trial is, you see that in Paragraph 2, because Poles and Eastern nationals are alien and racially inferior people living in the German Reich territory. I would like you to look at the end of it where it develops the fact that considerations for trying Germans do not apply to considerations for trying Eastern nationals. Then Paragraph 3 says: "Above expositions are for personal information. In case of need, h6wever, there need be no hesitation in informing the Gauleiter in suitable form." My Lord, it is the last sentence of the document, that: "... there need be no hesitation in informing the Gauleiter in suitable form." Now, tell the Tribunal, Witness, how did the Gauleiter come to deny Eastern nationals a trial and handing them over to the Police? What had he to do with it?
KAUFMANN: Firstly, this document refers, in the beginning, to a directive of the ReichsFuehrer SS to his subordinate offices, that is, not to the Gauleiter. Secondly, it remained at the discretion of the persons who received this document, whether they would instruct the Gauleiter in cases of need.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: That is what I want you to help us on. How did it become necessary for these Police officers and the officers of the R.S.H.A_ to consult the Gauleiter about refusing a trial. What I want you to tell the Tribunal is how the Gauleiter came into it, unless they were helping the Police to perpetrate this injustice like many others. How did they come into it?
KAUFMANN: The Gauleiter did not have anything at all to do with these things. With the permission of the Tribunal, I would like to mention my own experience in this matter...
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I would rather not. I am not interested in your experiences. What I am interested in is why the Police should be instructed to inform the Gauleiter if necessary? Tell us the sort of circumstances in which the Police would go to the Gauleiter-that is what I want to hear.
KAUFMANN: I do not know that; the Gauleiter did not participate in these things.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: So it is your answer that you cannot tell the Tribunal. You cannot imagine any circumstances which would cause Herr Streckenbach to send these instructions to the Higher SS and Police Leader and one-half dozen Police districts? You cannot think of anything that would cause that paragraph to come in?
KAUFMANN: I have already said that the writer of this document leaves it to the discretion of the recipients whether they will instruct the Gauleiter or not. I cannot judge in which cases the Gauleiter were instructed and in which cases they were not ...
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: All right,, let us look at something else. My Lord, if Your Lordship will turn to Page 24. Witness, it is 26-Page 26 in your book. Now, that is a report from Herr Abetz, who was the Reich Ambassador in Paris and it has a very large distribution to the Foreign Office and other places, and it is dealing with Jews who had left Austria and had not changed their Austrian passports for German passports, and also Reich German Jews who had not reported when they were abroad. I want you to look at the end of the first paragraph where Abetz says: "Suggest for the future a collective expatriation procedure for the occupied territory of France based on lists made here in agreement with Hoheitstrdger in which should be listed primarily the members of the following groups..." And then he has listed the ex-Austrians and Jews who have not reported.
KAUFMANN: May I ask where I can find the word Hoheitstrdger?
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: You see the Number 1-well, about three lines before that: "Suggest for the future a collective expatriation procedure for the occupied territory of France based on lists made here in agreement with Hoheitstrqger"-high Party leaders-"in which should be listed primarily the members of the following groups..." Now, is Herr Abetz suggesting that the Hoheitstrager should make the lists of the Jews who have not complied with the regulations, and therefore are to be expatriated from comparative safety in France and brought into the Reich where, in 1942, they would probably take a journey into the East and then be gassed? Now, is that a normal type of duty which the Hoheitstrdger did-to make lists of offending Jews for the Reich authorities?
KAUFMANN: Firstly, this is concerned, apparently, with the Hoheitstr"ger of the Auslands-Organisation. As a Gauleiter ...
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Yes, that is evident from the word here.
KAUFMANN: I, as Gauleiter, have never been expected to perform such work or such services and if I had been asked to perform them, I would have refused to do so.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Just one other point on the Jews. Would you look at "Die Lage"? [The document was submitted to the witness.] My Lord, this will be Exhibit GB-534. My Lord, there are copies of the relevant extracts. "Die Lage" is the situation report giving the military political situation of the day. [Turning to the witness.] You will see, if you will just look back at the beginning, Witness, for a moment-if you will look back to the front. Would you be good enough to look back to the front? You will see that it is for August 1944, and it begins with an article by the Defendant D"nitz on sea warfare. Now, you notice that at the front it is referring to H"ngen which, I understand, is somewhere near Aachen-NSDAP H"ngen. Now, did you get that? Did you get "Die Lage"?
KAUFMANN: Yes.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well now, just look at Page 23, dealing with the Jewish problem in Hungary: "It was a matter of course that the German offices in Hungary did everything possible after 19 March to eliminate the Jewish element as rapidly and as completely as was at all possible. In view of the proximity of the Russian front, they commenced with the cleaning up of the northeastern area-north Transylvania and the Carpathian province-where the Jewish element was the strongest numerically. Then the Jews were collected in the remaining Hungarian provinces and transported to Germany or German controlled territories. A hundred thousand Jews remained in the hands of the Hungarians to b e employed in labor battalions." And then it tells of the question of getting the command of the Hungarians and of the slight difficulty of the definition of "Jew" in Hungarian law. It goes on to say, toward the end of the first paragraph: "Up to 9 July approximately 430,000 Jews from the Hungarian provinces had been handed over to the German authorities. The handing over takes place on the Hungarian national frontier up to which point the carrying out of the measures against the Jews, and with it also the responsibility for it, is a matter for the Hungarians." Then I would like you to note the next paragraph, about Budapest. It says: "As a last stage the Jews from Budapest were to be deported.  It is a question of approximately 260,000. But in the meantime pressure from enemy and neutral countries (Hull"-I suppose that is Mr. Cordell Hull-"the King of Sweden, Switzerland the Pope) has become so strong that those circles in Hungary that are friendly to the Jews attempted to influence the Hungarian Government to prevent any further measures against the Jews..." Now, Witness, whoever else in Germany was ignorant about the action taken against Jews in Hungary, everyone who got "Die Lage" knew what the Germans were doing with regard to the Hungarian Jews, did they not?
KAUFMANN: I have to disappoint you, Mr. Prosecutor, because I myself see this magazine today for the first time. I do not deny that it was sent to me but I never read it, maybe through lack of time. I do not know to what extent other circles of the Party received it. I myself am hearing of the measures against the Jews in this form and of these numbers for the first time.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, just let us get the distribution of "Die Lage". It may have been bad luck that you did not read it-or good luck; but still, it went to all Gauleiter, it went to all Army and Navy and Air Force commands. Did it go to the Kreis and the Ortsgruppenleiter?
KAUFMANN: May I ask you to tell me where it says so?
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I am asking you whether that is not right. You know it as well as I do, do you not, that it went to all Gauleiter and to Army Command?
KAUFMANN: I said to you, Mr. Prosecutor, just now that it is for the first time-that it is possible that this booklet was sent to me, but that I see it here in this courtroom today for the first time. I have never read it and have never seen it.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: You never read it at all, do you say?
KAUFMANN: I do not know this magazine "Die Lage"; I see it for the first time here today.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: So that you cannot say whether there was any distribution to Kreisleiter or Ortsgruppenleiter?
KAUFMANN: I think this distribution is improbable, because my attitude to the Jewish question was well known and my Kreisleiter would, I am sure, have drawn my attention to this article.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: But, as I understood you a few moments ago, you said that it was quite possible that you might have got "Die Lage" but you had not read it?
KAUFMANN: Yes, I am saying this under my oath.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Why did you think it was quite possible that you might have got it, if there was not a distribution to Gauleiter?
KAUFMANN: I did not claim that there was no distribution. I merely asked where it said that the Gauleiter received this magazine.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, you see, I have referred you to the front page, to what was put on the copy which we happened to capture. It has got "NSDAP H"ngen." It does not look as if it was a very restricted distribution if it got to the NSDAP at H"ngen. I am right, am I not, that H"ngen is a village near Aachen? Is that not right?
KAUFMANN: I do not know whether it is a village near Aachen. I can only see a note in handwriting here, I do not know who wrote it. I see this for the first time today.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: All right. Well, we must not take up too much time. I will take you on to another point which Dr. Servatius referred to. I want to ask you just one or two questions about the lynching of Allied airmen. My Lord, if Your Lordship will look at Page 41 of the book. Witness, it is Page 43 for you. That is an order signed by the Defendant Hess, of the 13th of March 1940. My Lord, it is Document 062-PS, Exhibit USA-696, and the subject is: "Instructions to civilian population regarding appropriate behavior in case of landings of enemy planes or parachutists in German territory." It says: "The French civilian population was directed officially and by radio how to behave in case of landings of German planes. Because of this fact the Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force has requested me to instruct the civilian population correspondingly by means of Party channels. The attached directions as to procedure are to be disseminated only orally via Kreisleiter, Ortsgruppenleiter, Zellenleiter, Blockleiter, leaders of the incorporated and affiliated organizations of the Party. Transmittal by official orders, posters, press, or radio is prohibited." Then it says: "Official stamp: Top Secret." And the various matters, instructions as to the treatment of top secret documents. Now if you will look on to the next page where the document occurs, it says: "One-planes to be put under protection; two-the airmen are to be arrested at once and restarting or destruction prevented; three-no looting or taking of souvenirs." Now look at Paragraph 4: "Likewise, enemy parachutists are immediately to be arrested or made harmless." My Lord, I think that is a better translation of "unsch"dlich gemacht." ITurning to the witness.] Now, what was "making harmless" -- murdering?