dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
THE PRESIDENT: Can you give a number to this document? DR. KAUFFMANN: Yes, Document Kaltenbrunner-2. "Question Number 1: Give details about yourself. What was your official position in the SD? Where did you know Dr. Kaltenbrunner? "Answer: I was born on 19 March 1915, in Vienna; by profession, a historian. My occupation up to the time of the German collapse was that of a sub department chief in Amt VI, Foreign Intelligence Department, of the RSHA. After Austria's Anschluss in 1938, I voluntarily joined the SD. Coming from the National Catholic Youth Movement, I made it my aim to achieve a moderate political course for my country. "I made the acquaintance of Kaltenbrunner in 1938; he knew that the above was my aim. "In 1941, on personal orders of Heydrich, I was called before the SS and Police Court for having religious ties and for lack of political and ideological reliability, and I had to join the ranks as an ordinary private. After Heydrich's death I was pardoned and, at the beginning of 1943, I was detailed to the office of Schellenberg' Chief of Amt VI of the RSHA. Here I was in charge of matters relating to the Vatican, as well as of matters relating to some states in the Balkans. "When Kaltenbrunner was appointed Chief of the RSHA at the beginning of 1943, I was continually in touch with him at work, particularly since he was endeavoring to draw the group of Austrians in the RSHA nearer to him. "Question Number 2: Give an estimate of the numbers involved at the Main Office of the RSHA in Berlin. "Answer: The Main Office in Berlin, Amt n (Gestapo) had approximately 1,500 members; Amt V (Criminal Police) 1,200; Amt III and Amt VI (intelligence service at home and abroad) 300 to 400 each. "Question Number 3: What is understood by SD and what were its tasks? "Answer: Heydrich organized the so-called Sicherheitsdienst (known as the SD) in 1932. Its task was to give to the highest German authorities and the individual Reich ministries, information on all events at home and abroad. "The SD was purely an information service and had no sort of executive authority.
THE PRESIDENT: Only individual persons Belonging to the SD were drafted to the so-called special action commands (Einsatzkommandos) in the East. They thereby assumed executive positions, and they resigned from the SD during that period. There were special action groups and special action commands of the Security Police and the SD up to the last; also in Africa, and in Hungary, and Czechoslovakia even up to 1944. These Kommandos had. nothing to do with executions. Their tasks had in the meantime assumed the nature of general security police matters. As far as I know, executions revere carried out only 'in Russia, due to the so-called 'Commissar Order' by Hitler. Whether these Kommandos stopped or continued their activity after Kaltenbrunner was named Chief of the RSHA, I do not know. "Question Number 4: Do you know about the 'Eichmann Operation' to exterminate the Jews? "Answer: I learned details of the Eichmann Operation only at the end of August 1944. At that time Eichmann himself gave me detailed information. Eichmann explained, among other things, that the Vole action was a special Reich secret and was known to only very few people. The total number of members of this Kommando, in my opinion, could hardly have exceeded 100. "Question Number 5: What do you know about the relations between Eichmann and Kaltenbrunner? "Answer: I know nothing about the official relations between the two. However, Eichmann may well have had no direct official contact with Kaltenbrunner. He often asked me to arrange a meeting with Kaltenbrunner for him. Kaltenbrunner always refused. "Question Number 6: What was the relationship between Kaltenbrunner and Muller, the Chief of the Secret State Police (Gestapo)? "Answer: I cannot give any details about their official relations. It is certain, however, that Muller acted quite independently. He had gained great experience in Secret State Police matters over a period of many years. Himmler thought a great deal of him. Kaltenbrunner did not think very much of him. Kaltenbrunner had neither technical schooling in police problems nor any interest in them.
THE PRESIDENT: The intelligence service took up the main part of his attention and all his interest, especially insofar as it concerned foreign countries. "Question Number 7: Who was in charge of the concentration camps? "Answer: The SS Main Office for Economy and Administration had sole charge of the concentration camps; that is, not the RSHA, and therefore not Kaltenbrunner. He, consequently, had no power to give orders and no competency in this sphere. According to my opinion of him as a man, Kaltenbrunner certainly did not approve of the atrocities committed in the concentration camps. I do not know whether he knew about them. "Question Number 8: Did Kaltenbrunner issue or transmit an order according to which enemy aviators who made forced landings were to be given no protection in the event of lynch justice being carried out by the population? "Answer: No, I never heard about anything of the kind from Kaltenbrunner, although I was with him a great deal. As far as I can remember, however, Himmler issued an order of this kind. "Question Number 9: Did Kaltenbrunner issue orders that Jews were to be killed? "Answer: No, he never issued such orders, and in my opinion, he could not issue such orders on his own authority. In my opinion he was opposed to Hitler and Himmler on this question, that is, the physical extermination of European Jewry. "Question Number 10: What church policy did Kaltenbrunner pursue? "Answer: As adviser on Vatican matters, I often had the opportunity of speaking to him officially on this subject. He immediately supported my suggestion, made to Hitler in the spring of 1943, that a change in church policy should be effected so that the Vatican could be won over as a peace negotiator on this basis. Kaltenbrunner had no success with Hitler, as Himmler opposed him violently. Baron Von Weizsacker, German Ambassador to the Holy See with whom I discussed the matter, failed likewise in his efforts, the result of which was that Bormann had an eye kept on him. "Question Number 11: Did Kaltenbrunner intervene in foreign policy in the interest of peace?
THE PRESIDENT: "Answer: Yes; in the Hungarian question, for example. When, in March 1944, the German troops occupied Hungary, he succeeded in persuading Hitler to be moderate and to prevent Romanian and Slovak units from marching in as planned Due to his support, I was able to prevent a National Socialist government from being formed in Hungary as planned, for another 6 months." [A recess was taken]
THE PRESIDENT: Now, Dr. Kauffmann, are you going to call the defendant?
DR. KAUFFMANN: Mr. President, I have committed a small oversight. I did not read Page 5 of my document book. Those are Questions 12 and 13 of the affidavit, which I, inadvertently, did not read. I wish to apologize and ask your permission to finish it.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
DR. KAUFFMANN: I continue on Page 5: "Kaltenbrunner wanted the old Austria-Hungary to be reestablished on a federative basis. Since 1943 I had told Kaltenbrunner that Germany must endeavor to end the war by a peace at any price. I had informed him about my connection with an American office in Lisbon. I also informed Kaltenbrunner that I had recently made a contact with an American office in a neutral country through the Austrian resistance movement. He also declared his willingness to travel to Switzerland with me and start personal negotiations with an American representative in order to avoid further senseless bloodshed. "Question Number 12: Do you know that Kaltenbrunner instructed the Commandant of Mauthausen Concentration Camp to hand over the camp to the approaching troops? "Answer: It is correct that Kaltenbrunner did give such an order. He dictated it in my presence, to be forwarded to the Camp Commandant. "Question Number 13: Can you say something briefly about Kaltenbrunner's personality? "Answer: Kaltenbrunner was a man completely different from Himmler or Heydrich. He was therefore by conviction strongly opposed to both of them. He was appointed Chief of the RSHA, in my opinion, because Himmler did not want to run the risk of having a rival like Heydrich. It would be wrong to call him 'little Himmler.' In my opinion, he was never in complete control of the large office of the RSHA and, being very little interested in police and executive tasks, he occupied himself preponderantly with the intelligence service and with exerting influence on general policy. This he regarded as his particular sphere." This is followed by signature, date, and certification.
THE PRESIDENT: Have you any more documents?
DR. KAUFFMANN: No.
THE PRESIDENT: Now you wish to call the defendant?
DR. KAUFFMANN: Yes. [The Defendant Kaltenbrunner took the stand]
THE PRESIDENT: Will you state your full name, please?
ERNST KALTENBRUNNER (Defendant): Ernst Kaltenbrunner.
THE PRESIDENT: Repeat this oath after me: "I swear by God- the Almighty and Omniscient-that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing-so help me God." [The defendant repeated the oath In German.]
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down.
DR. KAUFFMANN: During the last 2 years of the war, since 1943, you have been the Chief of the Security Police and Security Service and the Chief of the Reich Security Main Office, the RSHA. You are aware, of course, that you are under extremely serious charges. The Prosecution charge you with having committed Crimes against Peace, and with having intellectually aided and abetted or participated in the crimes against the law of war and against humanity, and finally, the Prosecution connect your name with the Gestapo terror and the atrocities of the concentration camps. I now ask you, do you assume responsibility for the Counts charged as outlined and which are known to you?
KALTENBRUNNER: In the first place, I should dike to state to the Tribunal that I am fully aware of the serious character of the charges against me. I know the hatred of the world is directed against me; that I particularly since Himmler, Muller, and Pohl are no longer alive must here, alone, give an account to the world and the Tribunal. I realize that I shall have to tell the truth in this courtroom, in order to enable the Court and the world to fully recognize and understand what has been going on in Germany during this war and to judge it with fairness. In 1943-that is to say, 2 years before the ending of this war- I was called into an office, whim fact I shall explain in detail later on. Right at the beginning, I would dike to state that I assume responsibility for every wrong that was committed within the scope of this office since I was appointed Chief of the RSHA and as far as it happened under my actual control, which means that I knew about it or was required to know about it. May I ask permission for my defense counsel to put questions to me so as to direct my dine of thought?
DR. KAUFFMANN: Will you briefly describe, in rough outlines, your career until you entered public life, and Austrian politics, that is until about 1934.
KALTENBRUNNER: I was born in 1903. My father and my grandfather were lawyers of repute; for the rest I am a descendant of farmers and scythemakers. My mother is of modest descent. She was adopted by the Belgian Ambassador to Romania and lived there for 25 years. During my childhood, which I spent in the country with a family which took very good care of me, I enjoyed on the one hand the best education and on the other hand I became familiar with the life of the simple people. I attended secondary school, high school, graduated, and in 1921 went to Graz University. First I studied chemico-technical sciences at the Institute of Technology and later on, when my father returned from the war seriously ill and when the possibility arose that I might have to take over his solicitor's practice, I studied law. I completed these studies with the degree of Doctor of Law and Political Science in 1926. I had a hard time. I had to earn my own living and the expenses for my studies. I had to work while I studied and for 2 years I worked as a coal miner during the night shift; and I have to thank my fate that thus I got to know the German workman much better than people usually do.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Would you be slightly more brief? Please get as quickly as possible to the period after 1934.
KALTENBRUNNER: After leaving the University I had to complete 7 or 8 years work as a candidate for the bar examination in accordance with the Austrian law, of which I spent one year in court as assistant and the rest of the time in lawyers' offices in Sandburg and Linz.
DR. KAUFFMANN: I am interrupting you for one moment with a question. Is it correct that in 1932 you became a member of the Party?
KALTENBRUNNER: I Became a member of the Party in 1932 after I had belonged for several years to the Non-Partisan Movement for the Protection of the Austrian Homeland.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Did you join the SS in that same year?
KALTENBRUNNER: I think it was at the end of 1932 or maybe at the beginning of 1933.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Is it correct that even before 1933, as maintained by the Prosecution, you were public speaker of a Gau and legal adviser of an SS sector?
KALTENBRUNNER: That statement requires clarification. It is true that I made speeches in my own home province, the Gau Upper Austria, at National Socialist but primarily-or rather exclusively-to promote the Anschluss movement. I was a legal adviser just as any other lawyer of any party who, at that period of economic emergency, was willing to give legal information and advice free of Barge for some hours at the end of the day to the needy, who in this case were National Socialists.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Is it true that later, in 1934, the Dollfuss Government had you arrested and that you, together with other leading National Socialists, were sent to the Kaisersteinbruch Concentration Camp? What was the cause for that?
KALTENBRUNNER: That is correct. I think that with regard to this point I must briefly describe the political situation in Austria at the time. The Government was in the hands of a group of men who had very few followers among the people. There were two large groups of size which did not participate in the Government; the first being the leftist group, that is, the Social Democrats and Austro-Marxists, and the second being the National Socialists, which was at that time a very small group. The Government, then, did put not only the National Socialists but also Social Democrats and Communists into their detention camps in order to eliminate any political strife originating from meetings or demonstrations. I was one of those National Socialists who were arrested at that time, whose number was approximately 1,800.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Did you have another conflict with them? And were you eventually subjected to a trial for conspiracy against the Government and thereupon discharged from the custody under which you had been placed? Give in a few sentences the reasons for this procedure.
KALTENBRUNNER: This was considerably later. I was arrested in May 1935. I should say first of all that in the meantime the National Socialist attempt at revolt had taken place in Austria in July 1934. This attempt at revolt, which unfortunately also included the murder of Dollfuss, was defeated and avenged by most severe measures against a large number of National Socialists. One particularly severe measure was the law by which many thousands of National Socialists lost their jobs or professional license and the necessity arose to bring about a pacification, I should say a mitigation in principles of the Government policy. That was primarily done by two men: Langot, then the Chief Deputy of Upper Austria, and Reinthaller, a farmer and engineer. That appeasement action started at the end of 1934 in September or October, and I was invited to join that action.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Will you please, if possible, get to the period of 1938, in rough outlines?
KALTENBRUNNER: I was in no way implicated in this attempted revolt of July 1934 and that is why I was invited to join in that appeasement action. Within that program the Government themselves demanded that certain men should maintain connections with the Party leaders, with the SA, SS, and all organizations of the then forbidden movement. With the knowledge and consent of the Government and the proper police departments, I took up the connection with the SS. In May 1935 I was arrested, suspected of establishing an illegal connection with the SS and of being engaged in high treason activity. I remained in custody for 6 months and was arraigned before the military tribunal in Wels on a charge of high treason. I was, however, acquitted of this crime since the Government themselves admitted that this assignment had been granted to me with their knowledge. All that was left over was a minor sentence for conspiracy which, however, was served by my custody.
DR. KAUFFMANN: How did you participate in the Austrian revolution which occurred in March 1938 and how did the SS participate?
KALTENBRUNNER: Shortly after my activities in connection with the Reinthaller-Langot appeasement action, I got in touch first with circles of the Anschluss movement clubs and second with those circles whose aim it was to improve conditions in Austria peacefully, by an evolutionary movement and development, and, on the other hand, to enlarge the Anschluss movement so as to win over the government themselves to that idea. In 1937 and 1938 I attempted to come into closer personal contact with Seyss-Inquart, later Minister, and I completely adopted his political conceptions.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Are you of the opinion that the plebiscite in Austria in April 1938 corresponded with the wish of the nation?
KALTENBRUNNER: The plebiscite of 10 April 1938 was completely in accordance with the will of the Austrian population. The result of 99.73 percent for Anschluss to the German Reich was perfectly genuine.
DR. KAUFFMANN: In the occasion of the Anschluss is it right that you were promoted to. SS Brigadefuehrer and leader of an SS sector?
KALTENBRUNNER: Yes, but first I would like to add the following to the question of the Anschluss: The representation and opinion of the Prosecution are completely incorrect when they think that National Socialism in Austria at that time could in any way be compared with the development which had already taken place in Germany. The development of Austrian National Socialism was on the contrary completely different. The starting point was the abnormal economic depression in Austria and beyond that the Anschluss movement, and finally National Socialism made the Anschluss come true. This course, from economic depression via Anschluss movement to National Socialism, was the road of nearly all National Socialists, and the ideology of the Party program of the time was in no way responsible. I believe this has to be taken for granted and I believe I also ought to say it first, that the Anschluss movement in Austria was backed by the people; the fact that the plebiscite in the various provinces, like the Tyrol or Salzburg, had already in previous years -I believe from 1925 to 1928-shown a result of more than 90 percent of the votes in favor of the Anschluss should now be taken into consideration. Back in 1928 the National Council of Austria and the Austrian Federal Council signed the decree of the National Council of the year 1918 which said that both these assemblies had resolved to join the Reich; and they did not swerve from that resolution.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Kauffmann, I do not think you need go into these subjects as to reasons why they were in favor of the Anschluss in such detail. Will you try to confine the witness to less detail and get on to the material period?
DR. KAUFFMANN: I thought that the defendant was being held responsible for his participation in the change of regime. Therefore I wanted to have at least a few sentences said about that before this Tribunal, but I am now prepared to change the subject.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness was giving us the figures in particular plebiscites long before the Anschluss, and that seems to be quite irrelevant detail.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Then, in September 1938, you were promoted to SS Gruppenfuehrer; is that correct?
KALTENBRUNNER: Yes. After the ensuing Anschluss I had to take over the leadership of the General SS in Austria, namely, the SS Main Sector Danube. At that time I had been promoted to brigade leader without going exactly through the preceding ranks of SS leaders. And I think it was in September that I was appointed Gruppenfuehrer, so that my rank was made the same as that of all the other main SS sector leaders in the entire Reich.
DR. KAUFFMANN: May I question you regarding your further career in the SS? Were you in 1941 appointed Higher SS and Police Leader in Austria?
KALTENBRUNNER: In March 1938 I became a member of the Austrian Government; that is, I had to take over the position of State Secretary for Security m Austria, which was under the Ministry of the Interior. That Austrian Government was dissolved in 1941; that is to say, their activity was discontinued in favor of such bodies of administration which prevailed in the Reich; consequently, the Office of State Secretary for Security was also dissolved, and in order to retain me at the same level in the budget, I was appointed Higher SS and Police Leader, I think in July 1941.
DR. KAUFFMANN: And on 30 January 1943 you were appointed Chief of the Security Police and the SD, that is, of the so-called Reich Security Main Office. How did that appointment come about? Did you have connections with Himmler? What was said between you and Himmler on the occasion of your appointment?
KALTENBRUNNER: I must describe briefly my activities from 1941 to 1943, that is, 2 years, so as to make it clear why I was called to Berlin. The Prosecution charge that I had led the Security Police already in Austria. In that respect the Prosecution are mistaken. The State Police and the Criminal Police as well as the Security Service in Austria were directed centrally from Berlin and were completely removed from the power of SeyssInquart, then the responsible Minister, and his deputy, Kaltenbrunner. My activity as Higher SS and Police Leader in Austria-unlike the activity of the same men in the Reich-was therefore limited merely to the task of representing or leading the General SS, which in no way took up all my time. During these 2 years I therefore followed out my intentions concerning political activity and developed a rather large political intelligence service radiating from Austria toward the southeast. I did that because, in the first place, I regretted that the Reich did not make use of at least the political and the economic resources, of all the resources which Austria could have put at the disposal of the Reich, and because the Reich with unequalled shortsightedness did not fall back upon Austria's most significant mission as an intermediary with the Southeast. Thus, my reports met with increased interest in Berlin, and since Himmler was continuously reproached by Hitler that his intelligence service, which was run by Heydrich in the Reich, did not furnish adequate reports on political results, Himmler, 8 months after Heydrich's death, felt obliged to look for a man who could free him from Hitler's reproaches that he had no intelligence service worth mentioning.