dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
THE INTERPRETER: I continue: "Subject: Technical report on the battles in the East. Reference..."-and then come series of file numbers- "The above decree of the Reichsfuehrer SS and Chief of the German Police in the Ministry of the Interior, and also one copy each of the technical reports of the Army Command North and the SS Police Division, are herewith forwarded to you for your information and use." The order is signed "Miegel."
COL. AMEN: Now, will you just go on to the distribution list and read, if you find it on the list, this defendant's name.
THE INTERPRETER: The name of the defendant is not on this distribution. I am coming to the next document.
COL. AMEN: Well, it is!
THE INTERPRETER: No, it is not contained in this document, and I am now reading the second document: "Berlin, 27 February 1942. The Chief of the Security Police and the SD, IV A 1 ..."-and then several different file references- ~ "Top secret. Subject: Activity and situation report Number 9 of the Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and the SD in the U.S.S.R. Attached hereto..."
COL. AMEN: Just a minute. He is reading the wrong document, Your Lordship. We will have it straight in a minute.
THE INTERPRETER: I am told I am reading the right document. It is the right document, I continue: "Herewith attached, I submit to you the ninth comprehensive report regarding the activities of the Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and of the SD in the U.S.S.R. In future these reports will be sent to you currently as they appear. Signed, Heydrich." . Then there is a stamp, "The Reich Defense Commissioner for the Wehrkreis XVII, received 5 March 1942;" and then follows the distribution, of which Number 13 reads, "To the Higher SS and Police Leader, SS Gruppenfuehrer, Dr. Kaltenbrunner."
COL. AMEN: His name is on the list, is it not? Now, if you will skip to "C" on that document.
THE INTERPRETER: I now read from Page 9 of the document, an extract under the heading "C. Jews:" "The attitude of the Jews towards the Germans is still clearly hostile and criminal. It is our aim to cleanse the Eastern countries of Jews as completely as possible. Everywhere the executions are to be carried out in such a manner that they will hardly be noticed by the public. Among the population, . and even among the remaining Jews, the conviction is widespread that the Jews have merely been resettled. Estonia has already been cleared of Jews. In Latvia the 29,500 Jews who remained in Riga have been reduced to 2,500. In Dunaburg there still live 962 Jews who are urgently needed for work." I am now skipping several paragraphs and I continue: "In Lithuania there are now in Kaunas still 15,000 Jews, in Schaulen 4,500, and in Vilna another 15,000 who are also needed for work. In White Ruthenia the Jews are being cleared out. The number of Jews in the part of the country which has so far been turned over to the civilian administration amounts to 139,000. In the meantime 33,210 Jews have been shot by the Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and the SD." I now skip the rest of this extract and continue by reading another document. This is dated, "Berlin, 23 April 1942," and shows an illegible initial in ink. It bears the heading, "The Chief of the Security Police and the SD, IV A 1," and several file numbers. It bears the designation, "Top secret." This document, which is signed by Heydrich and which shows as the date of receipt 28 April 1942, lists in the distribution in the 14th place, "To the Higher SS and Police Leader, SS Gruppenfuehrer, Dr. Kaltenbrunner, Vienna." I now read from Page 11 of the report, and I read an extract headed "C. Jews": "Different methods were used in solving the Jewish problem in the various front sectors.
THE INTERPRETER: Since the greater part of the Eastern territory is free of Jews, and since the few remaining Jews, who are required for most urgent work, have been put into ghettos, it was the task of the Security Police and the SD to round up those Jews who were hiding mainly in the country. Many times Jews who had left the ghetto without permission or who were not wearing the Jewish Star have been arrested. Among others, three Jews who had been sent from the Reich to the ghetto in Riga and who had escaped, were captured and publicly hanged in the ghetto. During large-scale anti-Jewish operations 3,412 Jews in Minsk, 302 in Vileika, and 2,007 in Baranowicze were shot." I now skip three paragraphs and continue: "In addition to taking action against individual Jews who were known for their political or criminal activity, it was the task of the Security Police and the SD, to clean up generally the larger towns in the remaining territories of the Eastern Front. Thus, in Rakow alone 15,000, and in Artenowsk 1,224 Jews were shot, so that now there are no more Jews there. In the Crimea 1,000 Jews and Gypsies were executed." That is all.
COL. AMEN: Defendant, do you still have the temerity to tell this Tribunal that you knew nothing about the operations of these Einsatz groups until after you took over as Chief of the RSHA?
KALTENBRUNNER: At the top left hand corner of the document can clearly be read, "The Higher SS and Police Leader..."
THE PRESIDENT: Answer the question and then you can look at the document afterwards. Do you still say that you knew nothing about these Einsatzgruppen?
KALTENBRUNNER: I have no knowledge of the contents of this document. I want to point out that the Office of the Inspector of 13 April g6 the Public Police dispatched this letter on 22 October 1941. Technical reports on the fighting on the Eastern Front and on the operations of the Security Police and SD, which were drafted at that time, are based on orders issued by Himmler or Heydrich and not on my orders. In no way can this document show how I regarded the entire question. If the distribution lists all the Higher SS and Police Leaders and all the offices to which these. technical reports were sent, I do not regard that as proof that these offices, that is to say all the men who were working in these offices-must necessarily have known of it. You cannot assume that cognizance was actually taken of reports concerning territories over which the official in question had no jurisdiction or influence whatsoever. There is no doubt at all today that these crimes. were committed in the East. But it is to be proved whether they are in any way due to my influence, either intellectually, legislatively, or administratively, and whether I approved of them, and whether I could have stopped them; all this I must absolutely deny.
COL. AMEN: Defendant, that was just one of a regular series of monthly reports, a copy of which went to you every single month. Is that not a fact, yes or no?
KALTENBRUNNER: I do not know how often such reports came. I see this report today for the first time. Of course, it cannot be denied that such technical reports from all battle zones concerning either the Security Police, or the Order Police operations, or the experiences of the Wehrmacht were issued and distributed all over the Reich.
COL. AMEN: All right, that is enough for me. Did you know about a letter written by your attorney, seeking evidence on your behalf at this Trial?
KALTENBRUNNER: I have not yet discussed such a letter with my Defense Counsel. Please ask him if he has informed me of this letter.
COL. AMEN: Well, are you not familiar with the fact that he wrote a letter to the Mayor's office in Oranienburg near Berlin and received a reply to that letter to be used on your behalf?
KALTENBRUNNER: No. Please ask him. He has not told me anything about it.
COL. AMEN: Now, then I will refer you to document number. ..
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Amen, are you entitled to go into professional matters between the defendant and his counsel?
COL. AMEN: I believe so in this instance, Your Lordship, because the letter was sent to us directly by the recipient of the letter, with the expectation that it would be used by us. This is no confidential communication. It was a letter...
THE PRESIDENT: Will you let the Tribunal see the letter?
COL. AMEN: Yes, Sir.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Mr. President, this is the first time that I have heard of this matter. If the document is addressed to me, may I perhaps have a look at it before it becomes an item in this Trial?
COL. AMEN: Sure.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, certainly, let him look at it first.
COL. AMEN: If Your Lordship please . ..
DR. KAUFFMANN: May I explain it, Mr. President?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, we had better hear from Colonel Amen first because he wants to introduce the document.
DR. KAUFFMANN: May I say something first?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Dr. Kauffmann, what do you want to say now?
DR. KAUFFMANN: Perhaps the Tribunal has already noticed that I...
THE PRESIDENT: We have not seen the document.
DR. KAUFFMANN: I have seen the document.
THE PRESIDENT: I said we have not seen it yet. We have allowed you to see it first in order that you can make any objection to it that you want to make before we see it, and then we will look at it.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Yes, I see. Mr. President, I am of the opinion that this is an unfair infringement on the rights and duties of the German Defense. The whole world may read this document. It is an inquiry which is addressed to the Mayor's office at Oranienburg. Oranienburg was a large concentration camp. Since, according to an agreement with my colleagues, I had the task of clarifying the question of the "awareness of the German people," I sent this letter containing questions which everybody may read to the Mayor's office and requested that these questions be answered. It was my intention to submit these answers, if the occasion arose, to the Tribunal. The same questions have been sent out to other towns, and I have already submitted these documents for translation and shall later submit them to the Tribunal. But it is an impossible state of affairs that a letter of a defense counsel and the reply given to that defense counsel should be disclosed here by the Prosecution.
THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute, Dr. Kauffmann. But the document that Colonel Amen was offering in evidence was not your letter to the Mayor of Oranienburg nor his answer to you.
COL. AMEN: Yes, it was.
THE PRESIDENT: I beg your pardon, I thought you said it was a letter that has been sent to the Prosecution.
COL. AMEN: I said that a copy was sent to the Prosecution: As I understand it, not only by the person who received it-there was no covering letter-but also turned over to the British Prosecution in a letter dated '46 from Major Wurmser.
THE PRESIDENT: I understand now. I do not think you said before it was a copy. What I understood was it might have been sent to you by mistake. If it were a copy of a letter which was sent to Dr. Kauffmann, then the position is clear as to what it was.
COL. AMEN: That is my understanding of it, Sir. And, of course, it is a copy of his letter but I know of no privilege whatsoever of a confidential...
THE PRESIDENT: What do you mean by "a copy of his letter"? A copy of the letter sent to Dr. Kauffmann?
COL. AMEN: Sent by Dr. Kauffmann to the Mayor of Oranienburg and a copy of the reply made by the Mayor to Dr. Kauffmann; and I think you will see, if Your Lordship reads the reply, how it is that it came directly to our attention.
DR. KAUFFMANN: May I add one more thing, only two or three sentences, please? I consider the presentation of these two documents a particularly severe infringement of the rights of the Defense. The Defense has had no opportunity to look at the documents of the Prosecution, and it would never have occurred to us to submit to the Tribunal documents of the Prosecution which are to our advantage. This is exclusively a matter between me, the sender of the letter, and the office answering it; how is it possible for the Prosecution to be allowed to interfere in such entirely personal matters? I do not think that is fair.
COL. AMEN: Now, if Your Lordship pleases, I think I can clear the whole thing up. This is a letter dated 2 April '46 from Major Wurmser to the British Prosecution, and it reads as follows: "Attached please find the original correspondence regarding Oranienburg. In accordance with your request, I have ascertained that this correspondence was received in the following way. It came addressed to the Prosecution and was delivered to the General Secretary. The original was apparently sent directly to Dr. Kauffmann and the sender, the Mayor of Oranienburg, a Mr. Klaussmann, dispatched at the same time a carbon copy to the Prosecution which not only consisted of his answer but also of the letter which was sent to him by Dr. Kauffmann."
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I think we understand the circumstances now.
COL. AMEN: So I think it was sent to the Prosecution for the very purpose for which I am now endeavoring to utilize it.
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Amen, apart altogether from the question of privilege between counsel and his client, how do you say that this document, which is a letter apparently from a private individual addressed to Dr. Kauffmann, copy of which is sent to you, is evidence at all?
COL. AMEN: Because, Your Lordship, there is included in this defendant's document book a letter which is on precisely this same point. In other words, this defendant has raised this point in his own defense. He did not read the letter.
THE PRESIDENT: That is not quite the point. This letter to Dr. Kauffmann, of which you have a copy, is not as I understand a sworn statement.
COL. AMEN: It is not sworn; no, Sir.
THE PRESIDENT: How does it become evidence then? The witness is not here.
COL. AMEN: It has the same probative value that many letters introduced here in evidence have. In fact, I think it has considerably more than many of them, because it is a letter from an official, from the mayor who has conducted an inquiry and has ascertained what I consider to be one of the most important matters in the. case-namely, whether...
THE PRESIDENT: No, I do not want to hear at the moment what is in the letter.
COL. AMEN: I cannot think of a thing that was more pertinent than this letter, or more important, to be brought out at this Trial, particularly when it-well, you do not want me to go into that- particularly when it is something which the defendant has sought to interpose as his own defense, and which now turns out...
THE PRESIDENT: But he has not sought to introduce it for his own defense.
COL. AMEN: Well, I say he has sought to introduce that issue by the letter in his document book so that, even were it not otherwise perhaps relevant, it surely becomes so when the defendant has raised that precise issue in his own documents. But even aside from that, it seems to me that it is one of the most important issues in this case. I will not characterize it in words since Your Lordship does not wish me to, but I can hardly think of anything more pertinent than the matter set forth there in the form of an official communication.
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Amen the only question I was asking you was how the particular document, which IS unsworn document, came to be competent evidence. Has it been seen by the witness who is under crossexamination?
COL. AMEN: Well, as an official communication, Sir, to his counsel. In the course of the discharge of his official duties as a mayor-it is a part of his job.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Dr. Kauffmann.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Mr. President, I do not wish to speak now about the question of procedure. I merely want to mention that this letter . . .
THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute.
DR. KAUFFMANN: I do not want to deal at great length with the question of procedure which we touched upon just now, but I wish to emphasize that these two documents have nothing to do with the case of Kaltenbrunner as such. As I have just said, anyone may look at the document; but, since this document has nothing to do with Kaltenbrunner, it has from the very outset no value as evidence.
COL. AMEN: Well, it has even further probative value, Your Lordship, in that, if the matters referred to in this letter were known, as described in the letter to the people in Oranienburg, surely the person who occupies the position as Chief of the RSHA in Germany must certainly have the knowledge which the smallest local civilian appears to have.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will adjourn. [A recess was taken]
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal rules that the document is inadmissible.
COL. AMEN: That was to have been my last document, Your Lordship; so that concludes the crossexamination, except for one point. There is a witness named Hoess, who is called on behalf of the defendant, and through whom I would like to introduce two exhibits. If he is not to be called, however, then I would like to introduce those exhibits through the defendant. So I am wondering whether we could obtain a definite statement as to whether or not the witness Hoess is actually to be called by the Defense.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Kauffmann, are you proposing to call Hoess?
DR. KAUFFMANN: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: You are.
DR. KAUFFMANN: I have no further questions to put to the defendant.
THE PRESIDENT: I am afraid I did not hear what you said, Dr. Kauffmann.
DR. KAUFFMANN: I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Then the defendant can return to his seat. Wait a minute, wait a minute!
CHIEF COUNSELLOR OF JUSTICE L. N. SMIRNOV (Assistant Prosecutor for the U.S.S.R.): Just a minute-stay! Mr. President, we have a few questions to put to the defendant.
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Smirnov, we understood the other day that the Counsel for the Prosecution had agreed that there should be only one crossexamination of the Defendant Kaltenbrunner.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: We wish to request the Tribunal to allow us to put to the defendant a few questions, which will not take very long but which are quite indispensable for further questioning.
THE PRESIDENT: In the opinion of the Tribunal, I think you know counsel ought to settle beforehand what questions are indispensable and then have them put by the counsel who cross-examines. That is the whole object of the scheme. Sir David, when we saw you on this subject, did you not tell us that all the prosecutors had agreed that so far as this defendant was concerned he should only be cross-examined by one?
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: My Lord, that was the position. I understand that the Soviet Delegation have some special points, and they were going to ask, as a matter of grace of the Tribunal, whether they could put them. That is what my Soviet colleagues have informed me.
THE PRESIDENT: M. Dubost?
M. CHARLES DUBOST (Deputy Chief Prosecutor for the French Republic): My explanation will be very brief, Mr. President. In principle, the Prosecution entrusts one man to ask all these questions. It is impossible, however, for the entire investigation and examination to be carried out by one member of the Prosecution only because we do represent four different nations which have not divergent but certainly individual interests. The only person qualified to speak in the interests of a nation is the representative of that nation. I think, therefore, that the Tribunal should permit us to ask questions from time to time when we ask to be allowed to do so.
THE PRESIDENT: M. Dubost, you are not applying now, are you, for leave to have a third crossexamination; you are just speaking on general principles?
M. DUBOST: Mr. President, it is a question of principle. The Prosecution has limited itself in order to economize on time, but it requests the Tribunal for authorization to intercede when it is necessary to do so in order to represent the interests of a country. I will not ask any questions which might have occurred to me following the interrogation by my colleague of the United States; I do not wish to retard the proceedings. I think, however, that the Tribunal could tell us that in principle we remain free to ask questions which concern our countries, especially since we alone are competent to represent the interests of our countries and cannot transfer this competency to one of our colleagues.
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Smirnov, could you inform the Tribunal upon what questions, what points you want to cross-examine?
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Yesterday, when the defendant was replying to Colonel Amen's questions and denying his participation in the extermination of the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto, he stressed that the Chief of Police in occupied Poland, Kruger, was allegedly directly subordinated to Himmler and had no connection with Kaltenbrunner at all. In the Polish documents which have just reached me, and in connection with which the Soviet Delegation has changed the order which it has primarily intended to observe, in these Polish documents there is...
THE PRESIDENT: I understand that point. Are there any other points?
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: The second point refers to another document already submitted by the Soviet Delegation, and this point has not been covered by the preceding question; but it is of intense interest from the viewpoint of the documents previously presented. It is in regard to these two questions that I wish to examine the defendant.
THE PRESIDENT: You are aware that we are going to adjourn at half past 12 for the purpose of dealing with the documents of the Defendant Rosenberg, but you may certainly cross-examine upon these points if you will do it as shortly as you can.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: I believe, Mr. President, that we shall be able to finish the crossexamination in 15 minutes.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Witness, Colonel Amen yesterday submitted to the Tribunal a document which disclosed your active participation in the liquidation of the Warsaw Ghetto. Perhaps you can tell us under whose orders the police were. Rebutting this document you dwelt at great length on the fact that the Police Chiefs in the occupied territories were directly subordinated to Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler and had nothing to do with you. Do you stick to this statement?
KALTENBRUNNER: Yes, but it should be supplemented. I also said yesterday that the Higher SS and Police Chief in the Government General was subordinate to Himmler and that, in turn, the SS and Police Leaders of the smaller districts were subordinate to him.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Perhaps you can tell us to whom the police officials were subordinate?
KALTENBRUNNER: The commanders of the Security Police, the Order Police, and the Waffen-SS were subordinate to the Higher SS and to the Chief of Police. They were also subordinated to the Chiefs of Police and SS in the smaller districts.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Perhaps you can remember your second statement as well, when you declared yourself opposed to Kruger's extreme tendencies towards the Polish Jews, and that you had even attempted to restrain him?
KALTENBRUNNER: I have stated that I agreed with Frank in favoring the release of Kruger-that is, his transfer from the Government General.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: I would like to hand Frank's diary to the defendant. [The document was submitted to the defendant.] Let him turn to Page 13, where Kruger is mentioned, and then to Page 16. From this Page 16, I shall read three paragraphs. Read and follow if it has been carefully translated, "There is no doubt"- says Kruger-"that the removal of the Jews has had a favorable effect on pacification..."
KALTENBRUNNER: That passage has not been submitted to me here. I have Page 13 of the document in my hand.