dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
MR. COUNSELLOR RAGINSKY: I have one last question to ask you. Do you remember an article published in the newspaper Das Reich, dated 18 August 1940, in connection with your 50th birthday? This article is entitled, "Walter Funk, Pioneer of National Socialist Economic Thought." I shall read into the record a few excerpts from this article: "From 1931 on, Walter Funk, as personal economic adviser and Plenipotentiary of the Fuehrer for Economics, and therefore the untiring middleman between the Party and German economy, was the man who paved the way to the new spiritual outlook of the German industrialists. "If in the outbreak of 1933 the differences which had existed for more than a decade in the public life of Germany between politics and economy, and especially between politics and the industrialists, disappeared overnight, if from the outset, the guiding rule of all labor has been an ever-increasing contribution towards a common end, this is due to the pioneering work of Funk, who since 1939 has directed his speeches and his writings to that end." And in the last paragraph of this article: 'Walter Funk remained true to himself because he was, and is, and will remain a National Socialist, a fighter who dedicates all his work to the idealistic aims of the Fuehrer." The whole world knows what the ideals of the Fuehrer were. Do you admit that this article gives a correct appreciation of your personality and your activities?
FUNK: Generally, yes.
MR. COUNSELLOR RAGINSKY: I have no more questions to ask. [Dr. Din approached the lectern.]
THE PRESIDENT: What is it you wish to say, Dr. Dix?
DR.DIX: I have only one question for the witness, which was brought up by the cross-examination of Mr. Dodd. I could not put this question any sooner, since I am asking it only because of what Mr. Dodd said.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, go on.
DR.DIX: Witness, Mr. Dodd has put to you a record of your interrogation, according to which Schacht, after leaving the Reichsbank, still had a room there. You have heard the testimony of Schacht here. He testified clearly that he did not have a room at the Reichsbank but that the Reich Government put a room in his apartment at his disposal and contributed to the rent, and that the Reich Government paid a secretary whom he took with him from the Reichsbank, but who was now paid by the Reich Government and not by the Reichsbank. That was the testimony of Schacht. By your answer given to Mr. Dodd it was not quite clear whether you have any doubt about the correctness of that statement by Schacht. I ask for your opinion.
FUNK: I do not know anything about the apartment of Dr. Schacht. I was told at the time that he still came frequently to the Reichsbank and that a room was reserved for him. If that information was not correct, then it is not my fault. I do not doubt that what Dr. Schacht said is correct. He must know the arrangements concerning his apartment better than I do.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, do you wish to re-examine?
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, we have found this final questioning of the Defendant Dr. Funk harder to follow than the other cases, because the translation caused serious difficulties. I have to admit, frankly, that I have been able to understand only part of what has been said here. The defendant may probably have had the same difficulty and therefore I should like to reserve the right, Mr. President, after I receive the stenographic record, to make one or two corrections, if the transcript should show this to be necessary-. It has also been made more difficult for us, Mr. President, because in the course of cross-examination a large number of extensive documents was submitted to the Defendant Dr. Funk. We are gradually becoming used to those surprises. Moreover, the Defendant Funk was supposed to give answers to questions concerning documents which he had not issued, which had nothing to do with his activities, which he...
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, the Tribunal saw no sign at all of the Defendant Funk not being able to understand thoroughly every question put to him. And I think that therefore there is no reason for any protest on your behalf and you should go on to put any question you wish to put in re-examination-let us bay, questions which arise out of the cross-examination.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, on our earphones, at least on this side, we could not understand quite a number of questions. Whether it applied to these particular earphones or to the entire apparatus I do not know.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, if the Defendant Funk did not understand any questions put to him, he could have said so. He did not say so. He answered all the questions, from a logical point of view, perfectly accurately. You can ask him if you like, if he did not understand any of the questions put to him.
DR. SAUTER: Now, Herr Funk, the Prosecution among other things has put to you that you participated in the exploitation, the spoliation of France. In this connection is it correct that the merchandise, the consumer goods which came from France, were in many cases manufactured from raw materials which had come from Germany?
FUNK: Certainly. We continuously delivered coal, coke, iron, and other raw materials in France, so that they could produce goods-we delivered especially those raw materials which the French did not have in the country themselves. There was a very active exchange of production and a very close productive cooperation between the German and French economy. Even the same organizational methods were used.
DR. SAUTER: Dr. Funk, excerpts from an article which appeared on the occasion of your birthday have been read before. Do you know the author of that article?
FUNK: Yes, from the earlier years.
DR. SAUTER: Did he receive any factual material from you for that article?
FUNK: No.
DR. SAUTER: Did he not ask for it?
FUNK: No, I did not know anything about that article beforehand. I did not order a birthday article for myself.
DR.SAUTER: Precisely. So you did not know anything about that article and therefore, if I understand you correctly, there is no guarantee that what is said in this article is completely true.
FUNK: No. But I find that the tendency of the article is generally very good. The tendency . . .
DR. SAUTER: Witness, the American prosecutor confronted you yesterday with the matter of your negotiations with Rosenberg in the spring of 1941 and the fact that at that time, a few months before the march into Russia, you had these negotiations with Rosenberg. He apparently wanted to conclude that you had admitted, or wanted to admit, that you had known about the intention of Hitler to wage an aggressive war against Russia. You did not have a chance to say anything on this yesterday. Therefore I should like to give you another opportunity now to state very clearly what your belief was at that time concerning the intentions of Hitler in the spring of 1941, when you negotiated with Rosenberg, and what you knew about any possible causes for war before that time.
FUNK: As to the question of the American prosecutor, I did not understand it to mean that I knew anything about an aggressive war against Russia. The prosecutor spoke explicitly about preparations for war with Russia. I myself had already made it quite clear that I was completely surprised when the task was assigned to Rosenberg, and I was informed by Dr. Lammers as well as by Herr Rosenberg, that the reason for the assignment was that the Fuehrer was expecting a war against Russia, because Russia was deploying large numbers of troops along the entire eastern border, because Russia had entered Bessarabia and Bukovina and because his negotiations with Molotov brought proof that Russia maintained an aggressive policy in the Balkans and the Baltic area, whereby Germany felt herself threatened. Therefore preparations had to be made on the part of Germany for a possible conflict with Russia. Also, concerning the meeting which the American prosecutor has mentioned, I said explicitly that the measures concerning currency which were discussed there were approved by me, because we created thereby stable currency conditions in the Occupied Eastern Territory. I was therefore opposed to the idea that the German Reichsmark, which the Russian population would not have accepted because they could not even read it, should be introduced there.
DR. SAUTER: Witness, the Soviet Russian prosecutor has pointed out again and again that you were not only Reichsbank President and Reichsminister of Economics, but also Plenipotentiary for Economy. You have corrected that already and pointed out that from the very beginning when you were appointed, your authority as Plenipotentiary for Economy was practically taken over by Goering, and that, I believe, in December of 1939, your authority as Plenipotentiary for Economy was also formally turned over to Goering.
MR. DODD: I wish to enter an objection not only to the form this examination is taking, but as to its substance. Counsel is in effect testifying himself, and he is testifying about matters that the witness testified to on direct examination, and it seems clear to us that this cannot be helpful at all to the Tribunal as a matter of re-direct examination.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, is it really proper for you to get the witness to go over again the evidence which he has already given? The only object of re-examination is to elucidate any questions which have not been properly answered in cross-examination. The witness has already dealt with the topics with which you are now dealing, in the same sense which you are now putting into it.
DR. SAUTER: I have repeated the statements only because I want to put a question to the witness now concerning a document which was submitted only yesterday, which had not been submitted until then, and to which I could therefore not take any position; and because the Soviet Russian prosecutor has again made the assertion here that the defendant also during the war was Plenipotentiary for Economy, although that is not correct. Mr. President. . .
THE PRESIDENT: I have heard myself the witness say over and over again that he was not the Plenipotentiary General for Economy during the war. He has repeatedly said that.
DR. SAUTER: But it has been repeated from this side. Mr. President, yesterday a document was submitted which bears the Document Number EC-488.
THE PRESIDENT: What is the document you want to deal with?
DR. SAUTER: Number EC-488. It was presented yesterday, and is a letter dated 28 January 1939. On the front page it is marked in large letters "Secret." Here in the original is the heading, which is in capital letters, and it reads, "The Plenipotentiary for War Economy." So much for the heading of the letter paper. Then the word "War" is crossed out, so that you can read only, "The Plenipotentiary for Economy." Therefore, before 28 January 1939 the title of Plenipotentiary for War Economy must have been changed to a new title, "Plenipotentiary for Economy." I now ask that the defendant...
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I see. The copy that we have before us has not got the word "War" in it at all.
DR. SAUTER: It can be seen on the photostat.
THE PRESIDENT: I see it. But what is the question you want to put?
DR. SAUTER: At the time when this letter was written, the Plenipotentiary was the Defendant Funk. I should like to ask to be permitted to put the question to him, how it can be explained that the title of his office-that is, Plenipotentiary for War Economy-was changed. The question would be how it could be explained that the title of his office, "Plenipotentiary for War · Economy" had been changed to the new title, "Plenipotentiary for Economy."
FUNK: The reason is...
DR. SAUTER: One moment, Dr. Funk, please.
THE PRESIDENT: I did not ask you to stop putting your question. You can put your question. Go on. What is the question?
DR. SAUTER: Go on, Dr. Funk.
FUNK: The reason was that according to the old Reich Defense Law, Schacht had been appointed Plenipotentiary for War Economy, and on the basis of this second Reich Defense Law, which appointed me, I was appointed Plenipotentiary for Economy, because at that time it was quite clear that the special tasks concerning war economy-that is to say, armament industry, war economy proper- could no longer remain with the Plenipotentiary for Economy, but that he had essentially to co-ordinate the civilian economic departments.
DR. SAUTER: In connection with that, Mr. President, may I call your attention to another document which was submitted yesterday. That is Number 3562-PS. Here the heading already has the correct new title, "Plenipotentiary for Economy." That is no more "Plenipotentiary for War Economy," and that is also a new document which was submitted only yesterday. Mr. President...
MR. DODD: Just to keep the record straight, Mr. President, that Document 3562-PS is in evidence, and it was submitted by Lieutenant Meltzer at the time he presented the case against the individual Defendant Funk.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Dodd, am I not right in thinking that the Defendant Funk stated from the outset in his examination in chief that he was appointed Plenipotentiary General for Economy?
MR. DODD: Yes, indeed, Sir. That is as I thoroughly understand it.
THE PRESIDENT: And you have not challenged that?
MR. DODD: We have not challenged the fact that he said so. But we do challenge the fact that he, in fact, was only for economy. We do maintain that he, in fact, had much to do with the war effort as the Plenipotentiary.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. But he was not to be named that?
MR. DODD: No. And that Document EC-488 was not offered, anyway, for that purpose, but rather to show that the defendant was engaged in talking about what prisoners of war would do after an attack.
DR. SAUTER: Yesterday a document was produced about the interrogation of a certain Hans Posse. It is Document 3894-PS. The witness Hans Posse was formerly State Secretary in the Ministry of Economics and as such Deputy Plenipotentiary for Economy. That record has been submitted by the Prosecution in order to show that allegedly there was a struggle for power, as it says here, between Funk and Goering. However, I should like to quote to the witness a few other points from that record so that several other points can also be used as evidence: Witness, State Secretary Hans Posse says, for instance-and I should like to ask whether this is still your opinion today-that is Document 3894-PS, Page 2 of the German translation, at the bottom of the page-he was asked, "How often did you report to Funk in connection with your duties as Deputy to the Plenipotentiary?" The witness answered then, "The Plenipotentiary for Economy never really went into action."
FUNK: I must repeat what I said again and again, and what has keen confirmed by everybody who has been heard on that question. That was a post which was merely on paper.
DR. SAUTER: Then the witness was asked to what final end you, Dr. Funk, had worked. It says, "Dr. Posse, is it correct that the office of Plenipotentiary for Economy was established to the final end of uniting all economic functions with a view to the preparation for war?" Then the witness answered, "The purpose was what I have just said-to co-ordinate the various conflicting economic interests. But there was no talk about the preparation for war." And on the same page, on Page 4, at the bottom, the witness says, I quote: "It is correct that the aim, was to co-ordinate all economic questions, but the purpose was not to prepare for war. Of course, if war preparation should become necessary, it was the task of the Plenipotentiary for Economy to concern himself with these questions and to act as a co-ordinator."
FUNK: Herr Posse was an old, sick man, whom I had put in this post. He was formerly State Secretary under Schacht, and when I took over the ministry, I received a new State Secretary through Goering who, unfortunately, later became insane. And then State Secretary Dr. Landfried came to me, and Posse, who formally was still in the Ministry of Economics as State Secretary, was without a job. Therefore I made him an executive officer attached to the Plenipotentiary for Economy. Here, of course, he had constant difficulties from the very beginning. The High Command of the Armed Forces or the War Economy Staff wanted to reduce the authority of the Plenipotentiary, as can be seen from the letter which was presented yesterday. And the civilian economy department did not want to follow his directives because they already had been subordinated to and had to follow the directives of the Delegate for the Four Year Plan. Therefore, as a matter of fact, that unhappy Plenipotentiary for Economy held a post which to all intents and purposes existed only on paper.
THE PRESIDENT: Would this not be a convenient time to break off now? [The Tribunal recessed until 1400 hours.] Afternoon Session
DR.SAUTER: Mr. President, I have two more questions which I wish to put to the Defendant Dr. Funk. [Turning to the defendant.] Dr. Funk, before the recess we stopped at Document 3894-PS, the testimony of your State Secretary Posse. I should like to read one passage on Page 7 of the German text and ask you whether you agree with it. The witness Posse was asked by the Prosecution whether he, as Deputy Plenipotentiary for Economy, knew about the international relations, especially about the war situation and so forth, and he says, on Page 7, in the middle: "We never knew anything about the international situation and we never heard anything about it, and if the inter- national situation was mentioned in our discussions we could always voice merely our personal opinions." And a few lines further down: "We"-he means apparently himself and you, Dr. Funk-"We always hoped that there would be no war." Do you agree with this opinion of your former State Secretary Posse?
FUNK: Yes. I have said repeatedly that until the end I did not believe that there would be a war, and the same is true of my colleagues, and everyone who spoke to me at that time will corroborate this. Herr Posse was, of course, still less informed about political and military events than I was. Consequently, that also applies to him.
DR. SAUTER: Then I have a final question to put, Witness. You have seen the film which the Prosecution has presented. Now, you were the President of the Reichsbank. Consequently you are familiar, possibly only superficially with the conditions in the vaults of the Reichsbank, at least, I assume, in Berlin, if not in Frankfurt, where the film was taken; and you also know how, especially during the war, these items which had been deposited with the bank in trunks or packages and the like were safeguarded. Possibly, Dr. Funk, on the basis of your own knowledge of the conditions you can make a statement regarding this short film which we have seen.
FUNK: I was completely confused by this film and most deeply shocked. Photography and especially films are always very dangerous documents because they show many things in a light different from what they really are. I personally have the impression, and I believe the Prosecution will probably corroborate this, that all these deposits of valuables and this entire collection of valuable items came from the potassium mines where, at my instigation, all gold, foreign currency and other valuables of the Reichsbank had been stored away when, because of a terrific bombing attack on Berlin, we were no longer able to work in the Reichsbank. The Reichsbank building alone in this one raid on 3 February 1945 was hit by 21 high explosive bombs; and it was only by a miracle that I was able to reach the surface from this deep cellar together with 5,000 other people. Gold, foreign currency, and all other deposits of valuables were then taken to a potassium mine in Thuringia and from there apparently to Frankfurt, I assume. So this concerns, to a large extent, normal deposits by customers who had placed their valuables, their property, in these safe deposits which could not be got at by the Reichsbank. Consequently I cannot tell from this film which of these items were deliveries by the SS and which were genuine deposits. The Prosecutor certainly is correct when he says that no one would deposit gold teeth in a bank. It is, however, quite possible that certain functionaries of concentration camps made genuine deposits in the Reichsbank which contained such articles, to safeguard them for future use. I think that is possible. However, in conclusion I must say once more that I had no knowledge whatsoever of these things and of the fact that jewelry, diamonds, pearls, and other objects were delivered from concentration camps to the Reichsbank to such an extent.
FUNK: I knew nothing about it; it was unknown to me, and I personally am of the opinion that the Reichsbank was not authorized to do this kind of business It is certainly clear from one document, which contains an account for the Minister of Finance, that most likely everything from the concentration camps was first brought to the Reichsbank and then the unfortunate officials of the Reichsbank had to sort it, send it on to the Minister of Finance-or rather to the pawnbroker who was under the Minister of Finance-and prepare a statement of account. Therefore, I must request that someone be examined on these matters-first of all Herr Puhl himself, and perhaps someone else who was concerned with these things-in order to explain what actually took place and above all, to show that I personally had no knowledge whatsoever of these matters except for the few facts which I myself have described to the Court.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, I have finished my interrogation of the Defendant Funk, and I should now like to ask permission to examine the only witness whom I can call at this time, the witness Dr. Hayler.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
MR.DODD: [Interposing.] Mr. President, may I raise one matter before the witness is excused? This Document 3894-PS, that we have quoted from and that the defendant has quoted from, contains a number of other quotations and I think it would be well if we submitted the whole document in the four languages; and I shall be prepared to do that so the Tribunal will have the benefit of the whole text. So far we have both been quoting from it, but I think it would be most helpful to the Court if it had the whole text. And may we ask, Mr. President, shall we make arrangements or should I do anything about getting the witness Puhl here?
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, have you any request to make with reference to the witness Publ, who made an affidavit?
DR. SAUTER: Regarding the witness Emil Puhl I beg to request, Mr. President, that he be brought here for cross-examination. I was going to make that request in any case.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, certainly, Dr. Sauter, the witness Puhl should be brought here. He will be brought here as soon as possible.
DR. SAUTER: Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: Now the defendant can return to the dock. [The witness Dr. Hayler took the stand.]
THE PRESIDENT: Will you state your full name?
HAYLER (witness): Franz Hayler.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you repeat this oath after me: I swear by God-the Almighty and Omniscient-that I will speak the pure truth-and will withhold and add nothing. [The witness repeated the oath.]
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down.
DR. SAUTER: Dr. Hayler, how old are you?
HAYLER: 46 years.
DR. SAUTER: Are you a professional civil servant, or how did you get into the Ministry of Economics under Dr. Funk?