dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Why did your friend Lutze, of whom you have told us so much, in his lecture in 1939 put the two things together so strongly? . My Lard, it is only a short reference from a document that is already in: 3215-PS, which is Exhibit USA-426, and, My Lord, it is in the original SA Document Book. This is an article by Lutze, as head of the SA, on SA military training, dated 11 March 1939, and he says: "The men never forgot the mission of the Fuehrer to promote the military training of the German men and to revive the military spirit of the German people." And he quotes the very well-known passage from Mein Kampf which, I am sure, Witness, you know by heart: "The sports detachments of the SA shall be the bearers of the military thought of a free people." And he gives Hitler's words: "Give the German nation six million bodies perfectly trained in sport,, all fanatically inspired with love for the Fatherland, and trained to the highest offensive spirit." In a sentence, aren't these words of your chief Lutze the spirit and aim under which you worked to train the SA from 1934 to 1939?
JUETTNER: I really am surprised that the prosecutor, after these many months of the Trial, has not yet discovered the difference between defensive thinking and military training. That was discussed in detail during the preliminary proceedings before the Commission. Lutze did not write about military training; he wrote about defensive education. That is something quite different from military training. We did what every country expects from its patriots, we educated, we trained people physically and morally, nothing more, but we did not make any preparation for war, such as you are trying to foist upon me now.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: If that was as you say, why was it that as early as 25 July 1933 the SA Command was ordering no publicity about technical, signal, and motorized companies or separate air wings, "because they might be taken as an infringement of Versailles"? My Lord, that is Document Number D-44, Exhibit USA-428; that is the first document in the book, My Lord. Why was your leadership such that what the SA was doing in the way of these technical units would be construed as an infringement of Versailles, and any publicity was to endanger the person publicizing it with prosecution for high treason, if you weren't doing military training?
JUETTNER: About that, too,, I have already testified before the Commission. That order was connected with R6hm's endeavors to create a militia, and the details must become apparent from the record. If the Tribunal wishes me to do so, I shall repeat what I stated for the record.
THE PRESIDENT: Just answer the question.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Why were you afraid that the SA training and formation of technical units would be considered an infringement of the Treaty of Versailles if they were not military?
JUETTNER: Roehm's negotiations with foreign countries had not been concluded, consequently some unfounded suspicion might have arisen.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, then why was Von Reichenau now suggesting in May 1933 that the Supreme SA Command should combine representation with the Party on the Reich Defense Council? Why were you to be represented on the Reich. Defense Council if you were not conducting military training? My Lord, that is, I think, a new document. It is Number 2822-PS, and it becomes Exhibit GB-605. That document was never put in, but Your Lordship will find it in the old SA Document Book. I am afraid that is not paged, but it has the Number 2822-PS. It is "Strictly Confidential," dated the 26th of May 1933. From the Chief of the Ministerial Office in the War Department to the Supreme SA Command. Your Lordship, it is very short. It is from Von Reichenau. I don't know what his rank was then. I think he was a General or a Field Marshal later. "In addition to my letter of 22 May 1933, may I bring to your attention that the desire has been transmitted to me from the Bureau for Defense Policy of the NSDAP also to be represented in the Reich Defense Council. "I want to submit for consideration that this representation be combined in personal union with the representation of the Supreme SA Command, so that possibly one suitable person be charged with both representations." Why was the SA Supreme Command making representations to be represented on the Reich Defense Council if it was not doing military training?
JUETTNER: The representation on the Reich Defense Council has nothing whatever to do with military training. At that time, as I have already testified before the Commission,, provision had been made that in the event that we should not be able to pay the reparation costs and would have to expect an invasion from the West, all Germans capable of military service would be evacuated from the left bank of the Rhine. The task of carrying out this evacuation was given to the SA, through the Party. To that extent the SA and the Party were both interested in what was discussed in the so-called Reich Defense Council. 'HERR BOEHM: Mr. President, may I disturb -you for a moment? This document contains a confirmation of the fact that this was turned down by R6hm. It might be well to put that to the witness, too, that it was turned down by Röhm. It says here: "To Krueger: No; talked to Reichenau about it. Rhm." Therefore he turned it down.
THE PRESIDENT: We had better adjourn now, I think. [The Tribunal adjourned until 15 August at 1000 hours.]
THE PRESIDENT: Sir David, I have one or two announcements to make. The Tribunal will sit in closed session this afternoon. There will be no open session after one o'clock today. The Tribunal will not sit in open session on Saturday. The affidavit of the Polish priest which was offered the other day is admitted. A request has been made to the Tribunal that the report of Colonel Neave be made available to counsel for the SS. The Tribunal have requested Colonel Neave to prepare for its assistance summaries of the evidence of witnesses heard before the Commission, and a report grouping the testimony of the witnesses before the Commission with respect, to the points on which they have given evidence. These summaries and the report mentioned are not parts of the record and are not accorded any evidential value by the Tribunal, which has before it, and will consider, the transcript of the entire evidence before the Commission. Counsel for the Organizations and Counsel for the Prosecution may see these documents and may comment on them in their arguments within the time heretofore allowed, but the Tribunal will not grant any delay or any additional time for argument with regard to them. The Tribunal have also received an application that Dr. Klefisch might make a speech on the law with reference to the Organizations, and a speech in writing has been deposited with the Tribunal on behalf of Dr. Klefisch. The Tribunal do not propose to hear an additional speech on behalf of the Organizations, but it will consider the speech in writing which has been deposited by Dr. Klefisch. I now turn to a completely different subject. The Tribunal have been informed that some of the defendants have deposited long statements for translation with the Translation Division. There is no necessity for the defendants' statements to be translated, and they will not be translated by the Translation Division.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal draws the attention of the defendants and their counsel to the order of 23 July 1946, which was in the following terms: "In view of the full statements already made by the defend ants and their counsel, the Tribunal assume that if it is the desire of the defendants to make any further statements, it will be only t deal with matters previously omitted. The defendants will not be permitted to make further speeches or to repeat what has already been said by themselves or their counsel, but will be limited to short statements of a few minutes each to cover matters not already covered by their testimony or the arguments of counsel." The Tribunal will adhere strictly to this order, and the defendants will no be allowed to make statements which last longer than, as the order says, "a few minutes." These statements will be made by the defendants from their places in the dock. That is all.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: My Lord, the affidavit of the Polish priest to which Your Lordship referred is Document Numb 4043-PS, and now becomes Exhibit GB-606. Witness, before the Tribunal adjourned, you made a comment on a note of Captain Roehm on Document Number 2822-PS, which was minute from General Von Reichenau to the Supreme SA Command. My Lord, it is in Document Book "Y," the original document book. [Turning to the witness.] Now, you see. what that document is that Von Reichenau is saying that the desire has been transmitted to him from the Bureau for Defense Policy of the Party to be also represented in the Reich Defense Council. He goes on to say, "I want to submit for consideration that this representation be combined in personal union with the representation of the Supreme SA Command, and that possibly one suitable person be charged with both representations." Now, look at these words which you mentioned yesterday, as suggesting that there was nothing military in the wishes of the SA.  Are these the words-follow and see that I get them right. " Krilger: nein; mit Reichenau am..." and then the figures 16 and 11, "vereinbart als Vertreter," then "Ob.SA.F."-I will repeat that, "der Ob.SA.F. KrUger." Does not that mean now that the two parts of the representation are not to be combined, agreed with Reichenau on the 16th of the 11th, that the representative of the Supreme SA Leadership is Krdger? In other words, that Krueger was to represent the SA Leadership on the Reich Defense Council. Is that not what Roehm has written?
JUETTNER: Kuelger was the Chief of Training and Instruction and as such ...
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Most of all, answer my question Is that not what is there, that Kuelger is to be the representative o the SA Leadership on the Reich Defense Council?
JUETTNER: According to this remark, yes.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: That was the remark that you were trying to make out yesterday showed that the SA were not connected with military matters. It shows they were represented directly on the Reich Defense Council, does it not?
JUETTNER: I gave reasons yesterday why that was so, namely, for clearing the left bank of the Rhine in the event which I also mentioned yesterday; a withdrawal of the male population, but nothing military.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: My Lord, in the interest of time, I should ask the Tribunal's approval of the following course: I have a certain number of new documents which are of a public nature. I shall propose to put them in without referring to the witness unless there is any point that the Tribunal would like to put to him. Then when we come to documents with which the witness can help the Tribunal, I shall cross-examine on them. My Lord, I think there would be some saving of time. I hope the Tribunal will approve.
THE PRESIDENT: All right.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: If Your Lordship pleases. if Your Lordship would look at the Document Book 16 B, at Page 53.
THE PRESIDENT: The defense counsel, of course, have these documents, have they not, or will have them?
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Certainly, My Lord, they will be given to them as we go along.
HERR BOEHM: Mr. President, I have not got these documents.
THE PRESIDENT: You are just going to be given them, I think.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: My Lord, the documents will be given to defense counsel as I read them.
THE PRESIDENT: Certainly, that is what I was asking.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: My Lord, this is Document Number D-951, I think it is my fault-I did not give the number. My Lord, that becomes Exhibit GB-607. My Lord, it is a letter, it begins with a letter of Roehm's, then the Chief of Staff of the SA, and it encloses a letter from Blomberg to Hitler. My Lord, it is the second enclosure that is important. That is from Berlin, on 2 March 1934, to the Reich Chancellor: "I feel it my duty to draw attention once more to the significance of the staff guards of the SA. According to the order of the Chief of Staff, every corps and division (Obergruppe and Gruppe) is to form an armed staff guard with a heavy machine-gun company. This formation is at present taking place. According to the report of the Sixth Military District Headquarters, the SA Brigadefuehrer are also said to be considering forming such a staff guard already, and to be engaging SA men for one to one and a half year's service for this purpose. Selection and training have to take place with the aim of appearing in public. Numerically this would amount to 6-8,000 SA men permanently armed with rifles and machine-guns in the area of the Sixth Military District Headquarters., A particularly awkward factor is that the creation of these staff guards relies on so-called SA auxiliary camps (Hilfswerklager), which are mostly situated in the big towns." Arid I call the Tribunal's special attention to the next sentence. "Today I have received the report that in H6chst on the Main, that is, in the neutral zone, the creation of such an armed staff guard, is taking place. Such behavior renders illusory all the Wehrmacht's care and that of the Kuelger depots within the neutral zone which are influenced by it. As the Chief of Staff is away from Berlin, I am sending this report direct to the Chancellor. Signed, Von Blomberg." Do you not realize that is two years before- the occupation of the neutral zone on the Rhine? Then, if Your Lordship will be good enough to turn over to Page 129, which is Document Number 4013-PS, that will become Exhibit GB-608.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: That is a letter from the Defendant Rosenberg, from the local editor's office in Berlin to the Munich editor's office, presumably of the Völkischer Beobachter. "The Munich editor's office shall forward immediately in a sealed envelope the following communication to the Chief of Staff. The authorities here have learned that Austrians in Berlin have informed Vienna"-and Your Lordship will note that this is 3 February 1934; the Dollfuss Putsch was in July 1934-"that the SA plans to have the Austrian formations in Bavaria march into Austria around the 8th or 9th of February. Then a military dictatorship would be proclaimed. This morning I had an inquiry from very important English quarters whether it might be possible that, behind the back of Hitler and Habicht, the Austrians in Germany could invade Austria. My informant added that so far the Austrian charges had been laid aside, but this information had come from such a reliable source that they simply had to contact us. I am afraid of a possible provocation by hired elements which, if announced to the world just at that time, could produce conflicts. I explained that the Fi1hrer is not following a peace policy with Poland in order at the same time to start military conflicts with Austria. I report this matter so that, if occasion requires, the Supreme SA Command may take the necessary steps." Now, My Lord, the next is the Czechoslovakian matter. If Your Lordship turns to Page 65 of the book that is Document Number EC-366-1. That is Exhibit GB-609. My Lord, it is a report on the 11th of October 1938, dealing with the position of the Sudeten Freikorps in September 1938. It is made by Lieutenant Colonel Kchling, who was the special delegate of the OKW to the Youth Leader of the German Reich. I can give Your Lordship the passages very shortly.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: On the first page, Your Lordship will see, about the sixth line from the bottom: "There were an estimated 10,000 to 15,000 men in the reception camps and villages along the active front." If Your Lordship will turn to Page 66, Line 2 says that the groups were formed into battalions, and so on. Then, Line 6: "Supplies had been organized by the SA in conjunction with the NSV, and went smoothly from the very beginning. A very small amount of arms, consisting of Austrian carbines, had been supplied by the Austrian SA." Then, four lines further on: "With magnificent camaraderie and unselfishness, the Supreme SA Leadership had looked after the Freikorps materially." Ten lines on: "Equipping and feeding remained in the care of the NSV and the SA." Then, My Lord, on Page 67, the fourth line: "Here again the SA helped in part with available signals apparatus." Six lines from that- "The building up of the groups and staffs in the manner ordered was only possible owing to the effective support of the liaison officers provided to each group by the OKH." Then, four lines on: "In this the liaison officers were particularly well supported by the German SA leaders from the Reich who had been put into the Freikorps battalions by the SA. Without their camaraderie and their readiness to do their duty, the Freikorps could not have carried out its task. "The leaders appointed to the Freikorps by the Supreme SA Leadership also contributed essentially to the building up of the Freikorps and to its successes." And then, My Lord, on the next page there is some discussion about the way the work went on and how the SA continued to help. I think from there, if Your Lordship will turn now to Page 71, you can see what this Freikorps did under this SA guidance.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: The last paragraph, My Lord, is: "The force carried out more than 200 minor undertakings, in which they suffered nearly 100 dead and more than 50 wounded, and captured more than 2,000 prisoners and a great deal of booty of all kinds-see Appendix 1-so that the task which the Fuehrer had demanded as a foundation for his foreign political negotiations may be considered as having been completed." Now, My Lord, in Appendix 1 Your Lordship will see a list of the casualties, and the prisoners, guns, and equipment that were captured. Of course, 'the Tribunal will remember that all this happened in a time of peace, when all the defendants have been so anxious to point out to us that no war ever started-that is, before Munich. Your Lordship will remember that I asked the witness yesterday whether the training of the SA in the middle of the war, in 1941, differed from the training that was given in peace. I only want to give Your Lordships the different documents in which the training is found. I am not going to take them in detail, but I will indicate what they contain in a moment. My Lord, the first is a memorandum on training, dated 23 February 1934. That is Document Number 1849-PS, and Your Lordship will find it on Page 82 of the document book; that becomes Exhibit GB-610. On Pages 89 to 104 of the book, Your Lordship will find the training course. Now, My Lord, the next document in order of date is Number 2354-PS, which is Exhibit USA-430 and is in the old SA document book. That is the organization book for 1938, which includes the training of the SA, including the military training, throwing hand grenades, and so on. My Lord, what I proposed to do was to summarize the points of similarity -at the end, and if Your Lordship will check, you can see if my summary is right. The next document is Number D-925 which will become Exhibit GB-611, which Your Lordships will find on Page 32 of Document Book 16 B.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: My Lord, that is a list of the contents of the handbook of the SA, and it must be after 1937, because there is a reference to the people's gas masks of 1937 on Page 36. 1 have not got the exact date. If Your Lordship would merely like to note the sections, they are 8, 9, and 10, under the letter "E." Number 8 is musketry; 9 is training in terrain; and "E" is the training for the attack. Then there is a lecture of Lutze, which was given in 1938, and that is Document Number 3050-PS, which is a large bundle of extracts from the SA Mann. My Lord, this is in a special bundle from which we have had translated certain articles, and it is Number 3050-K. As I say, My Lord, it is a lecture of Lutze, of whom this witness has talked so much, given on the 14th of May 1938. Then, My Lord, the next is a document that Major Barrington put in yesterday. It is Number D-918, which is Page I of Document Book 16 B. That is the training directives for 1939; it goes on from Page 1 to F6ge 21. My Lord, apart from the training-which is dealt with at length and which, as I say, I will summarize-there is one point on Page 21 which I would be grateful if the Tribunal would note. This is apart from training, but I do not want to go back to the document. On Page 21 Your Lordship will see, under the letter "H": "Aids to the preparation and carrying out of the training," and under Number 4, "The SA Man." Just a point on that, My Lord. The last document of this series is on Page 108 of Document Book 16 B, and that is Document Number 3993-PS, which will become Exhibit GB-612. It is a letter from Lutze to the Defendant Rosenberg, dated 30 January 1939: "Please accept my thanks for your congratulations relating to the Fuehrer's decree which assigns all pre-military and postmilitary training to the SA." Now, My Lord, the common factors of these documents are, as can be seen from the documents, first of all, dealing with musketry, the general handling of arms, and all the concomitant matters. Secondly, the use of terrain, including ...
THE PRESIDENT: Sir David, the Tribunal would like you to put that last document that you have been dealing with, 3993-PS, to the witness.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: My Lord, I will certainly do that [The document was submitted to the witness.] Witness, you have seen that document from Lutze to Rosenberg of the 30th of January 1939?
JUETTNER: Yes, I have got it here.
SIR DAVID MAXVTELL-FYFE: And is that correct, that the Fuehrer had decreed, shortly before that, that the pre-military an post-military training should be assigned to the SA?
JUETTNER: On 19 January 1939 this was decreed by the Fuehrer but in practice this decree was never applied.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I suppose you carried out the training which is contained in these directives from 1934 to 1939, did you not?
JUETTNER: Regarding these matters of which the SA is being accused here, I shall have to speak in more detail, particularly as the right of vindication has been expressly sanctioned by the American Chief Prosecutor, Mr. Jackson, for the Organizations. Therefore, I shall have to come, in detail, to the accusations made here ...
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I do not think you need worry about ...
JUETTNER: ... and state my opinion...
SIR-DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Just a moment ...
JUETTNER: I have not finished yet.
THE PRESIDENT: Do not argue, please; answer the question.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Do you dispute that these directives that I have mentioned all contained training in musketry, training in the handling of arms, training in the use of terrain, that is, the use of ground, camouflage, reports, methods of attack, reconnaissance, and every one except the first-no, all of them-training in the use of hand grenades and generally training in attack, in battle, in dealing with attack by armored troops, attacks by airplanes-in fact, that they all contained the first stages of military training which every soldier has to go through before he is qualified to be a soldier? And, Witness, before you answer, you may assume that 90 percent of the male population of this Court have gone through military training and they know it from a practical point of view. - Are you saying that these training directives do not contain the ordinary, initial stages of military training?
JUETTNER: In the first place I do not deny it, and in the second place, that is training which is handled by the military and not by the SA. For instance, throwing of hand grenades, air training, training in the use of arms, were things we never handled. These questions cannot be answered with "yes" or "no." I must go into them in detail if I am to give a truthful and exhaustive answer.