dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
WISLICENY: After a lengthy discussion Eichmann told me that this request to visit the Polish ghettos could not be granted under any circumstances whatsoever. In reply to my question "Why?" he said that most of these Jews were no longer alive. I asked him who had given such instructions and he referred me to an order of Himmler's. I then begged him to show me this order, because I could not believe that it actually existed in writing. He...
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Where were you at that time? Where were you at the time of this meeting with Eichmann?
WISLICENY: This meeting with Eichmann took place in Berlin, Kurfurstenstrasse 116, in Eichmann's office.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Proceed with the answer to the previous question. Proceed with the discussion of the circumstances and the order.
WISLICENY: Eichmann told me he could show me this order in writing i! it would soothe my conscience. He took a small volume of documents from his safe, turned over the pages, and showed me a letter from Himmler to the Chief of the Security Police and the SD. The gist of the letter was roughly as follows: The Fuehrer had ordered the final solution of the Jewish question; the Chief of the Security Police and the SD and the Inspector of Concentration Camps were entrusted with carrying out this so-called final solution. All Jewish men and women who were able to work were to be temporarily exempted from the so-called final solution and used for work in the concentration camps. This letter was signed by Himmler himself. I could not possibly be mistaken since Himmler's signature was well known to me. I. . .
LT. COL. BROOKHART: To whom was the order addressed?
WISLICENY: To the Chief of the Security Police and SD, that is, to the office of the Chief of the Security Police and SD.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Was there any other addressee on this order?
WISLICENY: Yes, the Inspector of Concentration Camps. The order was addressed to both these offices.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Did the order bear any classification for security purposes?
WISLICENY: It was classified as "secret."
LT. COL. BROOKHART: What was the approximate date of this order?
WISLICENY: This order was dated April 1942.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: By whom was it signed?
WISLICENY: By Himmler personally.
LT.COL.BROOKHART: And you personally examined this order in Eichmann's office?
WISLICENY: Yes, Eichmann handed me the document and I saw the order myself.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Was any question asked by you as to the meaning of the words "final solution" as used in the order?
WISLICENY: Eichmann went on to explain to me what was meant by this. He said that the planned biological annihilation of the Jewish race in the Eastern Territories was disguised by the concept and wording "final solution." In later discussions on this subject the same words "final solution" appeared over and over again.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Was anything said by you to Eichmann in regard to the power given him under this order?
WISLICENY: Eichmann told me that within the RSHA he personally was entrusted with the execution of this order. For this purpose he had received every authority from the Chief of the Security Police; he himself was personally responsible for the execution of this order.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Did you make any comment to Eichmann about his authority?
WISLICENY: Yes. It was perfectly clear to me that this order spelled death to millions of people. I said to Eichmann, "God grant that our enemies never have the opportunity of doing the same to the German people," in reply to which Eichmann told me not to be sentimental; it was an order of the Fuehrer's and would have to be carried out.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Do you know whether that order continued in force and under the operation of Eichmann's department?
WISLICENY: Yes.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: How long?
WISLICENY: This order was in force until October~1944. At that time Himmler gave a counter order which forbade the annihilation of the Jews.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Who was Chief of the Reichssicherheitshauptamt at the time the order was first issued?
WISLICENY: That would be Heydrich.
LT. COL.BROOKHART: Did the program under this order continue with equal force under Kaltenbrunner?
WISLICENY: Yes; there was no diminution or change of any kind. .
LT. COL. BROOKHART: State, if you know, how long Kaltenbrunner knew Eichmann.
WISLICENY: From various statements by Eichmann I gathered that Kaltenbrunner and Eichmann had known each other for a long time. Both came from Linz, and when Kaltenbrunner was made Chief of the Security Police, Eichmann expressed his satisfaction. He told me at that time that he knew Kaltenbrunner very well personally, and that Kaltenbrunner was very well acquainted with his family in Linz.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Did Eichmann ever refer to his friendship or standing with Kaltenbrunner as being helpful to him?
WISLICENY: Yes, he repeatedly said that, if he had any serious trouble, he could at any time go to Kaltenbrunner personally. He did not have to do that very often, since his relations with his immediate superior, Gruppenfuehrer Muller, were very good.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Have you been present when Eichmann and Kaltenbrunner met?
WISLICENY: Yes; once I saw how cordially Kaltenbrunner greeted Eichmann. That was in February 1945 in Eichmann's office in Berlin. Kaltenbrunner came to lunch every day at Kurfurstenstrasse 116; there the chiefs met for their midday meal with Kaltenbrunner; and it was on one such occasion that I saw how cordially Kaltenbrunner greeted Eichmann and how he inquired after the health of Eichmann's family in Linz.
WISLICENY: In connection with the administration of his office do you know to what extent Eichmann submitted matters to Heydrich and later to Kaltenbrunner for approval?
WISLICENY: The routine channel from Eichmann to Kaltenbrunner lay through Gruppenfuehrer Muller. To my knowledge reports to Kaltenbrunner were drawn up at regular intervals by Eichmann and submitted to him. I also know that in the summer of 1944 he made a personal report to Kaltenbrunner.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Did you have an opportunity to examine files in Eichmann's office?
WISLICENY: Yes; I frequently had occasion to examine the files in Eichmann's office. I know that he handled with special care any files which had to do with questions concerning his own special task. He was in every respect a confirmed bureaucrat; he immediately recorded in the files every discussion he ever had with any of his superiors. He always pointed out to me that the most important thing was for him to be covered by his superiors at all times. He shunned all personal responsibility and took good care to take shelter behind his superiors-in this case Muller and Kaltenbrunner-when it was a question of responsibility for his actions.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: In the case of a typical report going from Eichmann's department through Muller, Kaltenbrunner, to Himmler-have you seen copies of such reports in Eichmann's file?
WISLICENY: Yes, of course there were many such copies in the files. The regular channel was as follows: Eichmann had a draft made by a specialist or he made it himself; this draft went to Gruppenfuehrer Muller, his department chief; Muller either signed this draft himself or left the signing to Eichmann. In most cases, when reports to Kaltenbrunner and Himmler were concerned, Muller signed them himself. Whenever reports were signed by Muller without any alteration they were returned to Eichmann's office, where a first copy and one carbon copy were prepared. The first copy then went back to Muter for his signature, and thence it was forwarded either to Kaltenbrunner or to Himmler. In individual cases where reports to Himmler were involved, Kaltenbrunner signed them himself. I myself have seen carbon copies with Kaltenbrunner's signature.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Turning now to areas and countries in which measures were taken affecting the Jews, will you state as to which countries you have personal knowledge of such operations?
WISLICENY: First, I have personal knowledge of all measures taken in Slovakia. I also know full particulars of the evacuation of Jews from Greece and especially from Hungary. Further, I know about certain measures taken in Bulgaria and in Croatia. I naturally heard about the measures adopted in other countries, but was unable to gain a clear picture of the situation from personal observation or from detailed reports.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Considering the case of Slovakia, you have already made reference to the 17,000 specially selected Jews who were sent from Slovakia. Will you tell the Tribunal of the other measures that followed concerning Jews in Slovakia?
WISLICENY: I mentioned before that these first 17,000 laborers were followed by about 35,000 Jews, including entire families. In August or the beginning of September 1942 an end was put to this action in Slovakia. The reasons for this were that a large number of Jews still in Slovakia had been granted-either by the President or by various ministries-special permission to remain in the country. A further reason might have been the unsatisfactory answer I gave the Slovakian Government in reply to their request for the inspection of the Jewish camps in Poland. This state of affairs lasted until September 1944; from August 1942 until September 1944 no Jews were removed from Slovakia. From 25,000 to 30,000 Jews still remained in the country.
LT. COL.BROOKHART: What happened to the first group of 17,000 specially selected workers?
WISLICENY: This group was not annihilated, but all were employed for enforced labor in the Auschwitz and Lublin Concentration Camps.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: How do you know this?
WISLICENY: I know this detail because the Commandant of Auschwitz, Hoess, made a remark to this effect to me in Hungary in 1944. He told me at that time that these 17,000 Jews were his best workers in Auschwitz.
LT. COL.BROOKHART: What was the name of that Commandant?
WISLICENY: The Commandant of Auschwitz was Hoess.
LT. COL.BROOKHART: What happened to the approximately 35,000 members of the families of the Jewish workers that were also sent to Poland?
WISLICENY: They were treated according to the order which Eichmann had shown me in August 1942. Part of them were left alive if they were able to work; the others were killed.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: How do you know this?
WISLICENY: I know that from Eichmann and, naturally, also from Hoess, during conversations in Hungary.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: What proportion of this group remained alive?
WISLICENY: Hoess at that time, in a conversation with Eichmann at which I was present, gave the figure of the surviving Jews who had been put to work at about 25 to 30 percent.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Referring now to the 25,000 Jews that remained in Slovakia until September of 1944, do you know what was done with those Jews?
WISLICENY: After the outbreak of the Slovakian insurrection in the fall of 1944 Hauptsturmfuehrer Brunner, one of Eichmann's assistants, was sent to Slovakia. Eichmann refused to grant my wish to go to Slovakia. With the help of German police forces and also with forces of the Slovakian Gendarmerie, Brunner assembled these Jews in several camps and transported them to Auschwitz. According to Brunner's statement, about 14,000 persons were involved. A small group which remained in Camp Szered was, as far as I know, sent to Theresienstadt in the spring of 1945.
LT. COL.BROOKHART: What happened to these Jews after they were deported from Slovakia, this group of 25,000?
WISLICENY: I assume that they also met with the so-called final solution, because Himmler's order to suspend this action was not issued until several weeks later.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Considering now actions in Greece about which you have personal knowledge, will you tell the Tribunal of the actions there in chronological sequence?
WISLICENY: In January 1943 Eichmann ordered me to come to Berlin and told me that I was to proceed to Salonika to solve the Jewish problem there in co-operation with the German Military Administration in Macedonia. Eichmann's permanent representative, Sturmbannfuehrer Rolf Gunther, had previously been to Salonika. My departure had been scheduled for February 1942. At the end of January 1942 I was told by Eichmann that Hauptsturmfuehrer Brunner had been nominated by him for the technical execution of all operations in Greece and that he was to accompany me to Salonika. Brunner was not subordinate to me; he worked independently. In February 1942 we went to Salonika and there contacted the Military Administration. As first action...
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Whom in the Military Administration did you deal with?
WISLICENY: War Administration Counsellor (Kriegsverwaltungsrat) Dr. Merten, Chief of the Military Administration with the Commander of the Armed Forces in the Salonika-Aegean Theater.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: I believe you used 1942 once or more in reference; did you at all times refer to 1943 in dealing with Greece?
WISLICENY: That is an error. These events occurred in 1943.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: What arrangements were made through Dr. Merten and what actions were taken?
WISLICENY: In Salonika the Jews were first of all concentrated in certain quarters of the city. There were in Salonika about 50,000 Jews of Spanish descent. At the beginning of March, after this concentration had taken place, a teletype message from Eichmann to Brunner ordered the immediate evacuation of all Jews from Salonika and Macedonia to Auschwitz. Armed with this order, Brunner and I went to the Military Administration; no objections were raised by the Military Administration, and measures were prepared and executed. Brunner directed the entire action in Salonika in person. The trains necessary for the evacuation were requisitioned from the Transport Command of the Armed Forces. All Brunner had to do was to indicate the number of railway cars needed and the exact time at which they were required.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Were any of the Jewish workers retained at the request of Dr. Merten or the Military Administration?
WISLICENY: The Military Administration had made a demand for about 3,000 Jews for construction work on the railroad, which number was duly delivered. Once the work was ended, these Jews were returned to Brunner and were, like all the others, dispatched to Auschwitz. The work in question came under the program of the Todt Organization.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: What was the number of Jewish workers retained for the Organization Todt?
WISLICENY: Three to four thousand.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Was there any illness among the Jews that were concentrated for transport?
WISLICENY: In the camp proper, that is, the concentration camp, there were no special cases of illness; but in certain quarters of the city inhabited by the Jews typhus was prevalent and other contagious diseases, especially tuberculosis of the lungs.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: What, if any, communication did you have with Eichmann concerning this typhus?
WISLICENY: On receipt of the teletype concerning the evacuation from Salonika, I got in touch with Eichmann on the telephone and informed him of the prevalence of typhus. He ignored my objections and gave orders for the evacuation to proceed immediately.
LT. COL.BROOKHART: Altogether, how many Jews were collected and deported from Greece?
WISLICENY: There were over 50,000 Jews. I believe that about 54,000 were evacuated from Salonika and Macedonia.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: What is the basis for your figure?
WISLICENY: I myself read a comprehensive report from Brunner to Eichmann on completion of the evacuation. Brunner left Salonika at the end of May 1943. I personally was not in Salonika from the beginning of April until the end of May, so that the action was carried out by Brunner alone. 3 Jan.46
LT. COL. BROOKHART: How many transports were used for shipping Jews from Salonika?
WISLICENY: From 20 to 25 transport trains.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: And how many were shipped in each train?
WISLICENY: There were at least 2,000, and in many cases 2,500.
LT. COL.BROOKHART: What kind of railway equipment was used for these shipments?
WISLICENY: Closed freight cars were used. The evacuees were given sufficient food to last them for about 10 days, consisting mostly of bread, olives, and other dry food. They were also given water and various other sanitary facilities.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Who furnished this railway transportation?
WISLICENY: Transport was supplied by the Transport Command of the Armed Forces, that is, the cars and locomotives. The food was furnished by the Military Administration.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: What did the Subsection 1VA4 have to do with obtaining this transportation, and who in that subsection dealt with transportation?
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Brookhart, you need not go into this in such great detail.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: If Your Honor pleases, this particular question, I believe, will have a bearing on the implications involving the military; I can cut down on the other details.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, you spent- some considerable time in describing how many of them were concentrated. Whether it was 60,000 or how many were kept for the Todt Organization-all those details are really unnecessary.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Very well, Sir.
THE PRESIDENT: I mean, you must use your own discretion about how you cut down. I don't know what details or what facts you are going to prove.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: If Your Honor pleases, this witness, as he has testified, is competent to cover practically all details in these Balkan countries. It is not our wish to add cumulative evidence, but his testimony does furnish a complete story from the Head Office of the Reichssicherheitshauptamt through the field operations to the final solution.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, what is he going to prove about these 50,000 Jews?
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Their ultimate disposition at Auschwitz, as far as he knows.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, you can go on to what ultimately happened to them then.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Yes, Sir. [Turning to the witness.] What was the destination of these transports of Jews from Greece?
WISLICENY: In every case Auschwitz.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: And what was the ultimate disposition of the Jews sent to Auschwitz from Greece?
WISLICENY: They were without exception destined for the so-called final solution.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: During the collection period were these Jews called upon to furnish their own subsistence?
WISLICENY: I did not quite understand the question.
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Brookhart, does it matter, if they were "brought to the final solution" which I suppose means death?
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Your Honor, this witness will testify that 280,000,000 drachmas were deposited in the Greek National Bank for the subsistence of these people and that this amount was later appropriated by the German Military Administration. That is all I have hoped to prove by this question. [Turning to the witness.] Is that a correct statement of your testimony?
WISLICENY: Yes. The cash which the Jews possessed was taken away and put into a common account at the Bank of Greece. After the Jews had been evacuated from Salonika this account was taken over by the German Military Administration. About 280,000,000 drachmas were involved.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: When you say the Jews taken to Auschwitz were submitted to the final solution, what do you mean by that?
WISLICENY: By that I mean what Eichmann had explained to me under the term "final solution," that is, they were annihilated biologically. As far as I could gather from my conversations with him, this annihilation took place in the gas chambers and the bodies were subsequently destroyed in the crematories.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: If Your Honor pleases, this witness is able to testify as to actions in Hungary, involving approximately 500,000 Jews.
THE PRESIDENT: Go on, then. You must use your own discretion. I can't present your case for you.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: I have no desire to submit cumulative evidence. [Turning to the witness.] Turning to actions in Hungary, will you briefly outline the actions taken there and your participation?
WISLICENY: After the entry of the German troops into Hungary Eichmann went there personally with a large command. By an order signed by the head of the Security Police, I was assigned to Eichmann's command. Eichmann began his activities in Hungary at the end of March 1944. He contacted members of the then Hungarian Government, especially State Secretaries Endre and Von Caky. The first measure adopted by Eichmann in co-operation with these Hungarian Government officials was the concentration of the Hungarian Jews in special places and special localities. These measures were carried out according to zones, beginning in Ruthenia and Transylvania. The action was initiated in mid-April 1944. In Ruthenia over 200,000 Jews were affected by these measures. Consequently, impossible food and housing conditions developed in the small towns and rural communities where the Jews were assembled. On the strength of this situation Eichmann suggested to the Hungarians that these Jews be transported to Auschwitz and other camps. He insisted, however, that a request to this effect be submitted to him either by the Hungarian Government or by a member thereof. This request was submitted by State Secretary Von Baky. The evacuation was carried out by the Hungarian Police. Eichmann appointed me liaison officer to Lieutenant Colonel Ferency, entrusted by the Hungarian Minister of the Interior with this operation. The evacuation of Jews from Hungary began in May 1944 and was also carried out zone by zone, first starting in Ruthenia, then in Transylvania, northern Hungary, southern, and western Hungary. Budapest was to be cleared of Jews by the end of June. This evacuation, however, was never carried out, as the regent, Horthy, would not permit it. This operation affected some 450,000 Jews. A second operation was then...
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Before you go into that, please, will you tell the Tribunal what, if anything, was done about organizing an Einsatz group to act in Hungary on the Jewish question?
WISLICENY: At the beginning of March 1944 a so-called Einsatzgruppe, consisting of Security Police and SD, was formed at Mauthausen near Linz. Eichmann himself headed a so-called "SonderEinsatz-Kommando" to which he detailed everybody who had held any position in his department. This Special-Action Commando was likewise assembled at Mauthausen. All questions of personnel devolved on the then Standartenfuehrer, Dr. Geschke, leader of the Einsatzgruppe. In technical matters Eichmann was subordinate only to the Chief of the Security Police and the SD.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: What was the meaning of the designation "Special-Action Commando Eichmann" in relation to the movement into Hungary?
WISLICENY: Eichmann's activities in Hungary comprised all matters connected with the Jewish problem.
LT. COL.BROOKHART: Under whose direct supervision was Special-Action Commando Eichmann organized?
WISLICENY: I have already said that in all matters of personnel and economy Eichmann was subordinate to Standartenfuehrer, Dr. Geschke, leader of the Einsatzgruppe. In technical matters he could give no orders to Eichmann. Eichmann likewise reported direct to Berlin on all the special operations undertaken by him.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: To whom?
WISLICENY: Either to Gruppenfuehrer Muller, or, in more important cases, to the Chief of the Security Police and SD, that is, to Kaltenbrunner,