dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
HERR PELCKMANN: THE PRESIDENT: Well, we had better adjourn now. We have already been 50 minutes. [The Tribunal adjourned until 8 August 1946 at 1000 hours.] Can you, as a high-ranking judge, comment on this allegation? Did the courts of the SS gain knowledge of these occurrences, and if so, did they remain silent? REINECKE: Of a consistent policy of the SS with reference to the conditions shown in this film, there can be no question. Frightful atrocities were committed in concentration camps, but the film shows the effect of the total collapse of the German Reich on the concentration camps; it does not, therefore, represent normal con-ditions in such camps. The normal conditions were quite different. I am in a position to pass judgment on these matters, because the legal authorities of the SS and the Police used all the means at their disposal ... THE PRESIDENT: Is the witness speaking from personal ob-servation of the concentration camps? HERR PELCKMANN: Yes, Mr. President, he is just about to explain that. REINECKE: I am entitled to pass judgment on these matters because the legal authorities of the SS and the Police used every means at their disposal, sometimes even overstepping their own authority, to take legal measures against these atrocities. We had investigating commissions in the concentration camps which reported to me repeatedly on conditions in the camps. If the legal authorities of the SS and the Police were in a. posi-tion to take steps against such conditions, then it was only because these conditions were not the result of 'a consistent policy of the SS, but were caused by criminal acts of individual persons or small groups and by a few highly placed superiors, but were not com-mitted by the SS as an organization. The legal authorities took steps in order to fight against these crimes and to eliminate such criminal elements from the SS. HERR PELCKMANN: I want to quote from a document already submitted by the Prosecution.
REINECKE: Of a consistent policy of the SS with reference to the conditions shown in this film, there can be no question. Frightful atrocities were committed in concentration camps, but the film shows the effect of the total collapse of the German Reich on the concentration camps; it does not, therefore, represent normal con-ditions in such camps. The normal conditions were quite different. I am in a position to pass judgment on these matters, because the legal authorities of the SS and the Police used all the means at their disposal ... THE PRESIDENT: Is the witness speaking from personal ob-servation of the concentration camps? HERR PELCKMANN: Yes, Mr. President, he is just about to explain that. REINECKE: I am entitled to pass judgment on these matters because the legal authorities of the SS and the Police used every means at their disposal, sometimes even overstepping their own authority, to take legal measures against these atrocities. We had investigating commissions in the concentration camps which reported to me repeatedly on conditions in the camps. If the legal authorities of the SS and the Police were in a. posi-tion to take steps against such conditions, then it was only because these conditions were not the result of 'a consistent policy of the SS, but were caused by criminal acts of individual persons or small groups and by a few highly placed superiors, but were not com-mitted by the SS as an organization. The legal authorities took steps in order to fight against these crimes and to eliminate such criminal elements from the SS. HERR PELCKMANN: I want to quote from a document already submitted by the Prosecution. It is a letter from the SS Economic and Administrative Main Office, Concentration Camps Department, Reference D, et cetera, and contains instructions to the senior medical officers in concentration camps. THE PRESIDENT: What is this document? What is the document? HERR PELCKMANN: It is a document already submitted by the Prosecution, E-168, and it is also in the official document book on concentration camps.
REINECKE: THE PRESIDENT: I cannot hear what the reference is. Is it "D", dawn, or "G"? THE INTERPRETER: "E", easy-168. THE PRESIDENT: What is the exhibit number? HERR PELCKMANN: I beg your pardon, I cannot give you this number at the moment. In that document it says among other things: "With such a high death figure the number of detainees can never be brought to the level demanded by the Reichsführer SS. The senior camp medical officers must use every means at their disposal to reduce the death rate in the various camps considerably. The best medical officer in a concentration camp is not the man who believes that undue harshness must be applied, but rather the one who, by means of careful control and interchanges at the various places of work, main-tains a high standard of efficiency. "Medical officers in the camps should check the food of the prisoners more often than before, and with the approval of the administration they should submit to the camp com-mander suggestions for improvements. Naturally these must not merely appear on paper, but camp medical officers should make regular checks. Apart from that, the medical officers should see to it that the working, conditions at the various places of work are improved as much as possible. It is necessary, for that reason, that medical officers should thoroughly inspect the places of work and investigate work-ing conditions. The Reichsführer SS has ordered that the death rate must be reduced at all costs." THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, didn't you understand that we don't wish to have-can't you hear? HERR PELCKMANN: Yes. THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal has indicated to the Prosecution they don't want to hear these documents read which have already been put in evidence, and there you are reading every word of this document. HERR PELCKMANN: I understand, Mr. President. THE PRESIDENT: Surely you can summarize it-if you have question to put upon it, that must be possible. HERR PELCKMANN: Do you know, Witness, whether such in-structions were actually carried out in the concentration camps?
REINECKE: REIN`ECKE: The investigating commissions of the head office "SS Courts" have repeatedly confirmed to me in personal reports that such instructions were in fact put into practice in the concen-tration camps. They reported to me that accommodation, hygienic conditions, medical care, feeding, and also the treatment and the physical appearance of the detainees were for the most part good. They also confirmed that the strict prohibition of ill-treatment of detainees was repeatedly made known in the camps, and was, in fact, observed. The picture of the concentration camps under normal conditions is, therefore, quite a different one. To the outsider, the cleanliness and the smooth functioning of the working program was noticeable. If crimes have been committed in concentration camps, then they occurred in a way in which they remained hidden from the outside world and even from the inmates of the camp unless they partic-ipated in them. THE PRESIDENT: Are you saying that you personally received this letter or that you had these facts before you? REINECKE: I received reports from these investigating com-missions, which were submitted to me personally, and from these reports I was able to gather the facts which I have just related. THE PRESIDENT: Well then, you knew in December 1942 that 70,000 arrivals in concentration camps out of 136,000 had died, did you? REINECKE: No, that I did not know. I shall, have to supplement my testimony by giving now an answer which I was to have given in connection with a later question, namely, that the head office "SS Courts" instituted these investigating commissions for the disclosure of crimes committed in concentration camps only as from the second half of 1943. THE PRESIDENT: I thought you said in answer to my question, "These facts were known to me." Go on, Dr. Pelckmann. HERR PELCKMANN: In this connection, I draw the attention of the Tribunal to my affidavit Number SS-65 to 67 which was translated in its entirety at my request.
REINECKE: It was deposed by a judge who conducted the investigations and it contains numerous additional details. [Turning to the witness.] To what extent were the legal authorities of the SS responsible for the administration of the law in con-centration camps? REINECKE: The SS jurisdiction did not apply to the detainees in concentration camps. Only the regular German courts had responsibility for them. To a certain extent the SS legal authorities also had to administer justice to the political prisoners in the con-centration camps, but with the proviso that the Reich Security Main Office, in this case, had the preference in making investigations. Guards and members of the commander's staff in concentration -camps came under the jurisdiction of the SS legal authorities to the full extent laid down by military courts. HERR PELCKMANN: You have already mentioned, Witness, that the legal authorities began prosecuting crimes committed in concentration camps in 1943. When in 1943? REINECKE: In the second half of 1943 the legal authorities, while following up a case of corruption in which the former camp commander Koch was involved, came upon clues to crimes leading to other camps. It was from that moment that the legal authorities became active. HERR PELCKMANN: How was it that the legal authorities became active so late? REINECKE: So-called legal officers were attached to concentra-tion camps for purposes of supervision. These legal officers, who were the instruments of the appointing authority concerned, had the duty of writing so-called reports of evidence, if crimes of any sort occurred, and of submitting such reports to the courts so that they might take over the prosecution of the crimes. HERR PELCKMANN: One intermediate question ... THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, I don't think he gave an an-swer to your question at all. Your question was: How was it that it was so late as the second half of 1943 that these investigating commissions began to become active? He did not answer that ques-tion at all. HERR PELCKMANN: Your Lordship, the witness has not yet finished.
REINECKE: I was just going to put an intermediate question, and in his further explanations the matter will become quite clear. [Turning to the witness.] I want to pat an intermediate question, Witness. Were these legal officers subordinated to you, to the head office "SS Courts", or to the SS legal authorities, or to whom were they subordinated? Can you give names? REINECKE: The legal officers were not subordinates of the legal authorities, but they were officials of the chief justice making the investigations. HERR PELCKMANN: Who was that in the case of the concentration camps? REINECKE: In the case of concentration camps it was Oswald Pohl, who was already mentioned yesterday. HERR PELCKMANN: Now, will you please continue with the answer to the question, why did the legal authorities learn of these atrocities at so late a stage? REINECKE: The reason was that earlier the legal authorities had not had any suspicions, owing to the fact that these legal officers, during the years until 1943, were continuously handing in such reports of evidence to the courts. These reports of evidence were very detailed. In cases of unnatural death of detainees, they con-tained photographs of the place of the crime, medical reports, evidence by detainees and guards. These reports were so detailed that the suspicion that other crimes could be committed behind the backs of the legal officers could not arise. These reports of evidence which were submitted led in every case to the trial and sentencing of the criminal, and such sentences were pronounced throughout all the years. HERR PELCKMANN: Might not the reports of evidence have been forged, and might not the actual facts have been covered up in that way? REINECKE: In part this was the case. I just said that during the second half of 1943 we began investigations in the camp at Buchenwald. Already in 1941 we had carried out such an investiga-tion in Buchenwald, which, however, had no result.
REINECKE: During the later investigation, in 1943, it was in fact discovered that in 1941 the commander, Koch, had used forged reports, coached witnesses, and forged medical reports which had deceived the investigating judges. We then conducted investigations in other camps, where we found that these reports of evidence had been in order. HERR PELCKMANN: Now, will you please describe briefly what further steps the SS legal authorities took with regard to these crimes in concentration camps? REINECKE: The clues in the camp at Buchenwald were mani-fold and they led to many camps. The matter became more complex from month to month. It was evident that the investigating organs of the legal authorities had been utterly unsuitable for the task of conducting a purely criminal investigation of this sort, because the legal authorities, in view of their character as a military legal instrument, lacked- a fundamental basis, namely, an authority capable of carrying out criminal prosecutions. For that reason, judges were quickly given short training courses in criminal proceedings, and at the same time, in collaboration with the Reich Security Main Office, experts from the Reich Criminal Police Department were made available for the investigation of these crimes. Such commissions were detailed to many camps and they worked continuously until the collapse. The head office "SS Courts" created a special court which had almost exclusively the task of trying these cases involving crimes committed in concentration camps. In the head office "SS, Courts," which was the leading office of the legal authorities, a special head department was created which carried out the over-all direction of the investigations in concentration camps and which was to take over the task ordinarily discharged by the public prosecutor. HERR PELCKMANN: Now, briefly summarized, what was the outcome of the fight of the SS jurisdiction against crime in con-centration camps?
REINECKE: REINECKE: Altogether, approximately 800 cases were investi-gated; 400 of these 800 cases were brought to trial, and 200 out of those 400 ended with sentences by the court. Among the cases investigated were proceedings against five commanders of concentra-tion camps; proceedings against two commanders were completed and ended with a sentence of death by shooting., HERR PELCKMANN: Were any difficulties put in the way of your commissions conducting these investigations? REINECKE: Very considerable difficulties were put in the way of these commissions. These difficulties originated with Pohl, who was using every means in his power to prevent the investigating commissions from penetrating to the real sources of these crimes. In that way, the legal authorities, being unable to make rapid progress and being compelled to break up piecemeal the secrecy surrounding the evidence, were forced to work together with detainees. In almost every camp in which such a commission was at work, confidential agents were recruited from among the detainees who submitted material to the investigating judges. But it was very difficult to persuade these detainees to co-operate, because they' feared that they would be killed if their activities were discovered. HERR PELCKMANN: But could you not easily have removed these obstacles by reporting, for instance, to Himmler? Pohl, as far as I know, was directly subordinate to Himmler, so that Himmler could have given him the necessary orders? REINECKE: Oh no, this man Pohl did not proceed as clumsily as that. Outwardly he pretended to welcome and support with all means the investigating work of the head office "SS Courts." And that was how he represented the matter to Himmler, after we had drawn Himmler's attention to Pohl's somewhat doubtful role. In reality, Pohl sabotaged with all the means of his tremendously powerful position the investigations we were making and worked hand in glove with the detainees and the criminal commanders, as we proved on the basis of evidence.
REINECKE: In 1941, to mention one outstanding example, when our first investigation in the Buchenwald Concentration Camp failed, as I have described, Pohl wrote a letter to the camp commander Koch, which I have read myself, and which contained the following: "I shall use all the power of my position to protect you if some unemployed lawyer should again stretch out his greedy hangman's hands toward your clean, immaculate person." That is how Pohl always worked. He was not only caught in the death machinery of the concentration camps, but he became at the same time the most corrupt person in the whole Reich. Of that we found evidence toward the end of the war through the many proceedings against organizations which he headed in private busi-ness. As head of that criminal clique, he actually tried to under-mine the system of trustees among the detainees, which he knew might endanger his own person. He had one of our confidential agents in the camp of Sachsenhausen-his name was Rothe-locked up and was trying to elicit, under false pretenses, an order from the Reich Security Main Office, or rather the Reich Criminal Police Department, to have the man hanged publicly before all the detainees of the camp so as to intimidate them and at the same time make the investigation work of the legal authorities impos-sible. One of our investigating officers heard of this in time and was able to prevent it at the last moment. HERR PELCKMANN: More slowly please, Witness, much more slowly. These are important statements, and the translation is not simple. REINECKE: That was how this criminal Pohl worked. The most important support in his fight against the legal authorities was the Führer Order Number 1, regarding secrecy, which was posted in every office of the SS and Police.
REINECKE: According to that order, matters which had to be kept secret could only be communicated to the persons immediately concerned, and even those could be told only as much as they absolutely had to know, and even then, only for the period in which they were actively concerned with the partic-ular matters. Everything in the concentration camps was secret; only with special passes and credentials was it possible to enter them. The work done by the detainees was secret, ostensibly because "V" weapons were being, produced. The other doings of the detainees were secret, ostensibly for reasons of counter intelligence. Corre-spondence on concentration camps was "secret," and for that reason could not be checked at all. For years Pohl deftly withdrew behind this screen of close secrecy, and he surrendered to the advancing investigation of the legal authorities only step by step whenever on the basis of individual facts he was systematically cornered. HERR PELCKMANN: Then, Witness, do you believe that with the results you have just described you came near to discovering the real extent of the crimes, as we have learned them from the pro-ceedings here? REINECKE: To the extent to which I know them today, certainly not. And the reason for that is that the legal authorities of the SS and Police dealt with all these crimes as individual crimes, and were unable for long years to detect the system of criminality as it can be recognized today. When toward the end of 1944 the legal authorities succeeded, on the strength of individual facts, in cornering the criminals Pohl and Grawitz, and also Müller from the Gestapo, who was covering up many of the crimes, it was for the first time that these men referred to orders from above. The investigations which the legal authorities then commenced along a new line collapsed together with the Ger-man war machine. HERR PELCKMANN: Did you then, toward the end of 1944, come near to discovering the actual extent of the crimes, the mass exterminations?
REINECKE: REINECKE: It was clear at the end of 1944 that orders from above must exist, but it was not recognizable even then that they dealt with mass exterminations of a tremendous extent. HERR PELCKMANN: According to the result of the investiga-tions you have just described, who was responsible for the crimes which were revealed? . REINECKE: Of the highest superiors, Pohl; next to him the former Reich medical officer of the SS and Police, Grawitz; and next to him the Chief of the Gestapo, Miller. Apart from these, the commanders of the concentration camps, members of the com-manders' staffs, medical officers in concentration camps, and to a considerable extent, criminal detainees in the concentration camps. HERR PELCKMANN: Would it therefore be correct to say that without distinction all members of the groups of persons which you have just mentioned participated in the crimes? REINECKE: No, that is not correct. The investigations which we carried out proved clearly that certain camps were perfectly in order, that not every commander was a criminal, and that many, members of the commanders' staffs and many medical officers knew nothing about the crimes. Above all the guards in the concentration camps had nothing whatever to do with the crimes, because they themselves were unable to gain knowledge of the real happenings within the concentration camps. HERR PELCKMANN: You have been speaking about the com-mander at the concentration camp of Buchenwald, Koch. His case has already been mentioned in the course of these proceedings, and the Prosecution at that time alleged, on the basis of testimony given by the detainee Blaha, that Koch had been sentenced for embezzle-ment and for the murder of three persons whose existence was in-convenient to him. The Prosecution described the case in a way which gave the impression that at that time the SS court had simply ignored the numerous other cases of killings. Is that correct, as far as you know? REINECKE: No, that is not correct.
REINECKE: The proceedings against Koch were based on a charge of corruption, and on that charge he was sentenced to death. The actual contents of the findings against Koch, that is, the reason for the death sentence imposed on him was the system of murder, a system which Koch invented and applied in many cases. This version of the findings had to be chosen because there was evidence of so many crimes which Koch had committed in the distant past and of which the traces had meanwhile been eliminated, that if it had been possible at all, it would have taken long months and years to clear up these individual cases. It was for that reason that, using the shortest possible means of proof to put a stop to Koch's activities at once, these three cases were taken up as being typical, but he was in fact sentenced for the system of murder in the Buchenwald Concentration. Camp. HERR PELCKMANN: The testimony of this witness on these events is supported by the affidavits SS-65, 64, 66, 67, 68, and 69. No, not 68, 1 listed that by mistake; not 68, but 64 through 67, and 69. These affidavits were deposed by the investigating judge, Dr. Morgen, who was to have appeared here as a witness. Un-fortunately, he only arrived at the beginning of July, just before the hearings before the Commission were completed, and I was not able to prepare him for his examination in time. I have submitted his affidavit, however, and the High Tribunal will be able to judge whether it might possibly be necessary to hear Dr. Morgen in person, since his testimony concerns the most important matters. [Turning to the witness.] What was Himmler's attitude with regard to these investigations? REINECKE: When the crimes were discovered at Buchenwald, at the end of 1943, Himmler was given a report on the matter at once, and he was throughout kept informed of the progress of the investigations. Himmler displayed very considerable activity, and he himself ordered that the investigations be strictly carried out. Only with his authority was it possible at all to pass the gates of the concentration camps.