dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
DR. SAUTER: Dr. Funk, have you finished? [The defendant nodded assent.] Dr. Funk, the Prosecution in their trial brief have contended that you participated in the formulation of the Nazi program. What can you tell us about that?
FUNK: I do not know what the Prosecution understands by Nazi program.
DR.SAUTER: I think-the Party program.
FUNK: That is quite impossible. The Party program, as far as I know, was formulated in 1921. At that time I did not know anything about National Socialism or of Adolf Hitler. 4 May 4
DR. SAUTER: Witness, the Prosecution has further accused you of setting up the so-called reconstruction program, the economic reconstruction program of 1932, that is, a program for the rehabilitation of German economic life. Is it correct that you established this economic reconstruction program?
FUNK: In 1932 I compiled for a speech by Gregor Strasser some points for an economic program which Strasser himself marked as originating from me. He passed these on to the various Party offices as instructions and propaganda matter. This economic reconstruction program, which in the words of the Prosecution was to become the economic bible for the Party organizers, is, I believe, in no way revolutionary or even sensational; and it could, I believe, be adopted and accepted by every democratic government. I believe it is pointed out in a book from which the Prosecution has taken various bits of information.
DR. SAUTER: Perhaps it is printed, Witness, in the book by Dr. Paul Oestreich which has been repeatedly quoted. This book contains your biography under the title, Walter Funk, A Life for Economy, and has been used by the Prosecution under Document 3505-PS, Exhibit USA-653. Dr. Funk, I have the text of this program before me.
FUNK: Please read it.
DR. SAUTER: The whole program covers half a page only and in the main sets forth really nothing which might be considered as characteristic of National Socialist trends of thought?
FUNK: Well, at that time I was not yet a National Socialist or, at least, but quite a young member of the Party.
DR. SAUTER: This economic reconstruction program must be actually read in order to convince oneself how little it contains of the characteristic National Socialist demands. This is a program which Funk says might be accepted by almost any liberal or democratic or other bourgeois party. The program is called, "Direct creation of employment through new State and private investments." That is the first demand. Then productive providing of credit by the Reichsbank but no inflation, rather the re-establishment of a sound currency and a sound financial and credit economy to promote production. General 1owering of rates of interests paying attention to individual conditions of the economy. Creation of a foreign trade office and a central foreign exchange office. Reorganization of economic relations with foreign countries, giving preference to the vital necessities of the domestic market but with special attention to the export trade absolutely necessary for Germany. Restoration of sound public finances, including public insurances. Abolishment of the untenable methods of balancing the budget. State protection for agriculture. Reorganization of the system of house and land ownership in accordance with the principles of productivity and national health. Expansion of the German raw material basis, the establishment of new national industries and trades, organization of manufactories on the basis of technical innovations. That is all, which is comprised in this so-called economic reconstruction program.
FUNK: This program was to be, as the Prosecution has said, the official Party dogma on economic matters. I would have been glad if the Party had professed these principles. In later years I had great difficulties with these various Party offices in connection with my basic attitude on economic policy. I was always considered, even in Party circles, as a liberal and an outsider...
DR. SAUTER: A liberal?
FUNK: Yes. I combated all tendencies towards collectivism; and, for this reason, I constantly came into conflict with the Labor Front. I was supported, especially in my views regarding private property' by Reich Marshal Hermann Goering. Even during the war, he had parts of the Hermann Goering Works denationalized at my suggestion. I was an opponent of a nationalized economy because a nationalized economy will always produce only average results. Nationalized economy means sterile economy. An economy which is without keen competition and individual rivalry will remain stagnant and will achieve but average results. The Fuehrer had, formerly, always agreed enthusiastically with these principles of mine. And it was a great disappointment to me when finally, in the last years, the Fuehrer turned so sharply against the bourgeois world for that meant practically that the whole of my life's work had failed.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, the Tribunal thinks he might get on to something more important than his view on state economy and private enterprise.
DR. SAUTER: Yes, Mr. President. [Turning to the defendant.] Dr. Funk, you know that it was precisely on account of the big problem of unemployment at the time that Hitler was able to grasp power. What plans did you have for the elimination of unemployment, since you knew that just that very promise...
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, we have heard nearly all the defendants on the conditions which obtained in Germany at that time. And there is no charge against these defendants for German economy between the years 1933 and 1939.
DR.SAUTER: Mr. President, I wanted to ask the Defendant Dr. Funk just how he thought that unemployment could be abolished; for from the testimony of other defendants, I gathered that they planned to eliminate it by other means, such as rearmament, and so forth. As far as I know, this was not so in his case; and I think that in judging the Defendant Funk, the question of how he proposed to handle the elimination of unemployment, whether by rearmament or by some other means, is of some importance. I do not think it will take much time, Mr. President. The Defendant Funk, I am sure, will be very brief. Perhaps he can...
THE PRESIDENT: He can answer that in a sentence, I should think.
DR. SAUTER: Herr Funk, be as brief as possible.
FUNK: If I am to answer this in one sentence, I can say only that at that time I envisioned the elimination of unemployment by a very precise plan, but at any rate without rearmament, without armament...
DR. SAUTER: But, instead?
FUNK: By methods which I would have to explain. But in any event, armament never came into question then...
DR.SAUTER: But-can you perhaps tell us in a few telling words?
FUNK: First of all, opportunities to work were offered everywhere so to speaks It was imperative to set up a large-scale roadbuilding program in Germany; it was necessary to revitalize the engine industry, especially the automobile industry, which, of course, had to be appropriately protected. An extensive house building program was needed; hundreds of thousands of houses were required...
DR.SAUTER: In short. . .
FUNK: Agriculture lacked mechanization and motorization. I should like to give here, however, only two figures, two ratios, which throw light on the whole situation. Up to the war two-thirds of Germany's total production went to private consumption and only one-third for public needs. Up to that point, therefore, the armament industry did not play a decisive role.
DR. SAUTER: Dr. Funk, now we will turn to another chapter. You will remember that the Prosecution contended in their trial brief that the evidence against you was largely circumstantial. I assume, therefore, that it was based upon your offices rather than your actions. For this reason I should be interested to know which Party offices you held during the period which followed.
FUNK: Only once, in the year 1932...
DR. SAUTER: That is to say in the Party-not government offices.
FUNK: I understand. Only in the year 1932, and then for only a few months, did I receive Party assignments, because Gregor Strasser wanted to set up for me an office of my own, for private economy. This office, however, was dissolved a few months later when he himself resigned from the Party and from his offices. Then in December 1932 I was instructed to take charge of a committee for economic policy.
DR.SAUTER: In December 1932?
FUNK: Yes. And in February 1933, that is, 2 months afterwards, I gave up this office again. Both assignments were unimportant and never really got going in the short time they lasted. All the gentlemen in the dock who were in leading positions in the Party at that time can confirm this. I never had any other Party office; so that after 1933 I received no further assignments from the Party and no Party office either.
DR.SAUTER: Then this so-called Office for Private Economy (Amt fur Privatwirtschaft), if I understood you correctly, existed for just a few months in the year 1932 but did not actually function. And in December 1932 you were made head of the other office, the Committee for Economic Policy as it was called. Then a month later, in January 1933...
FUNK: February 1933.
DR. SAUTER: February 1933, shortly after the seizure of power, you gave up this so-called office. Is that correct?
FUNK: Yes.
DR. SAUTER: Now for your connection with the Party. Were you a member of any organization of the Party-SA, SS, or any other section of the Party?
FUNK: I never belonged to any organization of the Party, neither SA nor SS, nor any other organization; and as I have already said, I did not belong to the Leadership Corps.
DR. SAUTER: You did not belong to the Leadership Corps?
FUNK: No.
DR. SAUTER: You know, Dr. Funk, that the Party functionaries, that is, the Party veterans, and so forth, met annually in November at Munich. You have yourself seen a film showing this anniversary meeting. Were you ever invited to these gatherings on 8 and 9 November?
FUNK: I do not know whether I received invitations; it is possible. But I have never been at such a gathering, for these meetings were specially intended for old Party members and the Party veterans, in commemoration of the March on the Feldherrnhalle. I never participated in these gatherings, as I was averse to attending large gatherings. During all this time I attended a Party rally only once, just visiting one or two functions. Mass gatherings always caused me physical pain.
DR. SAUTER: Witness, did you receive the Golden Party Badge, after you became Minister for Economics?
FUNK: No; I received that when I was still press chief of the Reich government.
DR. SAUTER: You did not get it as Minister?
FUNK: No.
DR. SAUTER: How long were you a National Socialist deputy of the Reichstag?
FUNK: For just a few months.
DR. SAUTER: From when to when?
FUNK: From July 1932 to February 1933. I did not get another seat, because the Chairman of the Party, the chairman of the parliamentary group, Dr. Frick, informed me that, by a directive of the Fuehrer, only the old Party members would receive mandates; and I had received a state position in the meantime.
DR. SAUTER: Witness, in regard to the 1aws which are of particular importance in this Trial, such as the Enabling Act, which practically eliminated the Reichstag; the 1aw forbidding political parties; or the 1aw for the unity of Party and State- in respect to all these laws, which were in preparation for later developments, were you still a member of the Reichstag at that time or had you already ceased to be one?
FUNK: I was no longer a Reichstag deputy. But even so, I considered these laws necessary.
DR.SAUTER: That is another question. But you were no longer a Reichstag deputy?
FUNK: No; and I was not a member of the Cabinet, either.
DR.SAUTER: Dr. Funk, we have frequently seen and heard of an affidavit by the American Consul General, Messersmith, dated 28 August 1945, Document 1760-PS. He says in the passage which concerns you: "He had been the editor of one of the leading financial journals in Berlin before the Nazis came in and had very little open Nazi sympathy when they did come in." He goes on to say: ". . . later he became an ardent Nazi And one of their most effective instruments because of his undoubted capacities in various fields." That is what the American Consul General, Messersmith, says about you. I should like to remind you of another passage from the book by Dr. Oestreich, which I have already mentioned and which has the title Walter Fun1c, A Life for Economy. That is 3505-PS, which has already been used and submitted in these proceedings. In this book the author says that the assignments given to you by the Party, even if they covered a period of a few months only, might be regarded as particularly important. What can you tell us about these two quotations?
FUNK: I have already stated that I declared myself for the Party and took up my Party work with enthusiasm. I was never attached to the propaganda organization, as has been asserted by Mr. Messersmith. I cannot remember that I ever knew Mr. Messersmith at all; nor do I remember discussing Austria with him, which he also asserts.
DR.SAUTER: Nor the Anschluss of Austria to Germany?
FUNK: I cannot remember that, although of course I considered the union of Germany and Austria necessary; but I do not recall discussing it with Mr. Messersmith. As far as Dr. Paul Oestreich's book is concerned, I am sorry that the Prosecution has used this book as a source of information. Mistakes have arisen which could have been avoided and which I would not have to refute here now. Oestreich was a man who was quite outside the Party.
DR.SAUTER: What was he?
FUNK: He owned a German newspaper in Chile. and for some years he was political editor of the Berliner Borsenzeitung.
DR. SAUTER: Political editor?
FUNK: First of all, he naturally wanted to secure a market for his book; and for that reason he exaggerated the importance of my position in the Party. He may have thought that in this way he would do me a particular favor. In any case, as things have been described there, they are not correctly stated.
DR.SAUTER: Witness, in Document Number 3563-PS, submitted by the Prosecution, there is a statement to the effect that you, Dr. Funk, were described in several publications as Hitler's adviser on economic policy; and in another passage you are said to be Hitler's "Wirtschaftsbeauitragter" (Economic Plenipotentiary). Was this a Party office, or what precisely was meant by this term? What functions is it supposed to indicate?
FUNK: It was neither a Party office nor a Party title. The press frequently called me so on account of my activity on behalf of the Party in 1932, and it was obviously adopted by writers from the newspapers. But it was neither an office nor a title. It is really nonsense to consider my activities at that time so important; for if they had actually been of importance, I should certainly have retained these offices when the Party came to power. The Reich Minister for Food and Agriculture was also a Reich letter; State Secretary Reinhardt, of the Finance Ministry, was the head of the Department for Financial Policy in the Reich Party Directorate (Reichsleitung), et cetera. But there never was a "Reichsleiter fur die Wirtschaft." When the Party came to power I left the Reichstag and all Party organizations.
DR. SAUTER: Dr. Funk, a Reich Economic Council of the Party-I repeat the term: Reich Economic Council of the Party- has been mentioned once or twice in the course of this Trial What do you know about your part in this Party organization and about the duties and domain of this Party organization?
FUNK: I had to think for a long time before I could remember this group at all, especially as neither Hess, Rosenberg, nor Frank remembered anything of the kind. But I remember dimly that Gottfried Feder had a circle of people whom he used to call in for consultation and to which he gave the rather pompous name of "Reich Economic Council of the Party." After the seizure of power this group ceased to exist. I never attended any of its sessions, and I was very much surprised to learn from the Indictment that I was supposed to have been the deputy chairman of this group. This group was of no importance whatsoever.
DR. SAUTER: You mentioned Gottfried Feder.
FUNK: He was responsible for the economic program and tenets of the Party from its establishment until it came to power.
DR.SAUTER: So he was the economic theorist of the Party from its foundation until it came to power?
FUNK: Yes. Dr. Wagner and Keppler overshadowed him later on. Keppler was always given the title of Economic Adviser to the Fuehrer in public.
DR. SAUTER: Dr. Funk, if I understood you correctly, the persons whom you mentioned just now are those whom you consider as the economic advisers of Hitler?
FUNK: No, that is wrong. DR.,SAUTER: Well?
FUNK: Hitler did not allow anyone to advise him, especially on economic matters. These were merely the men who dealt with problems of economic policy in the Party leadership, both before and after my time.
DR. SAUTER: Also from the publicity angle, like Gottfried Feder?
FUNK: He did a good deal of writing; he treated the problem of the lowering of the rate of interest, for example, in great detail.
DR. SAUTER: Dr. Funk, those were your real or supposed Party offices. Now I turn to your State offices. After the seizure of power-that is, at the end of January 1933-you became press chief under the Reich Government. In March 1933, when the Propaganda Ministry was created, that being a State Ministry, you became State Secretary in this Propaganda Ministry under Minister Goebbels. How did that come about?
FUNK: May I give a short summary of these matters?
DR. SAUTER: One moment . . .
FUNK: It would go much faster than asking each question separately.
DR. SAUTER: Then I would ask you to consider at the same time the question of why you entered the Propaganda Ministry and were made press chief of the Reich Government, although you were usually always occupied with economic questions.
FUNK: The Reich Marshal has already stated in his testimony; firstly, that he never knew that I had been active in the Party at all before 1933, and secondly, that, as he himself rightly believed, my appointment as press chief of the Reich Government came as a complete surprise. On 29 January 1933 the Fuehrer told me that he had no one among the old Party members who was intimately acquainted with the press and that he, therefore, wanted to ask me to take over the position of press chief, especially as this appointment involved regular reports to the Reich President. The Reich President knew me and, as I may mention again later on, very much liked me. I was often a guest at his home and was on friendly terms with his family.
DR. SAUTER: That is, Hindenburg?
FUNK: Yes, Hindenburg. These were the reasons which prompted Hitler to make me press chief of the Reich Government. The press chief of the Reich Government was also a ministerial director in the Reich Chancellery, and I did not like the idea of suddenly becoming a civil servant, for I never had any ambitions in that direction. But I accepted the appointment, influenced by the general enthusiasm of that period and in obedience to the Fuehrer's summons. I gave regular press reports to him, in the presence of Lammers. These conferences went on for a year and a half only, until the death of the Reich President, after which they stopped. The Fuehrer issued instructions to the press through the Reich press chief of the Party, Dr. Dietrich, who was later also made a State Secretary in the Propaganda Ministry. When the Propaganda Ministry was founded the Fuehrer asked me to organize this ministry, so that Goebbels would not have to deal with problems of administration, organization, and finance. Then the Press Department of the Reich Government, of which I had so far been in charge, was incorporated in the Propaganda Ministry and placed under the direct control of Goebbels. It also had its own special chief. From that time on-that is, after only 6 weeks activity as press chief of the Reich Government-my activities regarding the information and instruction of the press were at an end. From then on this was done by Goebbels himself, who generally drew a sharp line between the political and administrative tasks of the Ministry. He brought with him his old collaborators from the propaganda leadership of the Party to look after propaganda. My services were not required for political propaganda. Goebbels took care of it through the Party organ, of which I was not a member. I had, for instance, as Chairman of the Supervisory Council, to be responsible for the finances of the German Broadcasting Corporation-a matter of a hundred million-but I never broadcasted propaganda speeches. Nor did I speak at any of the big State or Party rallies.
FUNK: Naturally, I fully appreciated the importance of propaganda for state leadership and admired the truly gifted manner in which Goebbels conducted his propaganda; but I myself played no part in active propaganda.
DR.SAUTER: Then, if I understood you correctly, your functions in the Propaganda Ministry, which was, of course, a state ministry, were of a purely administrative and organizational nature; and you left the actual propaganda to the Minister, Dr. Goebbels, and the people he brought into the Ministry from the Party propaganda instrument. Is that correct?
FUNK: Yes. Goebbels naturally claimed the exclusive right to dispose of all propaganda material. I did not appear beside him in the field of propaganda at all; and other considerable restrictions were imposed on my position as State Secretary by the fact that many assignments, looked after in other ministries by the State Secretary, were in this case taken care of by Goebbels' expert, Hahnke, who was later made State Secretary and Gauleiter.
DR. SAUTER: Hahnke?
FUNK: Yes. I do not believe that during the entire period of my activity in the Propaganda Ministry I signed even three times as Goebbels' deputy. One of these signatures has been nailed down by the Prosecution. It is a signature appended to an order for the execution of a directive and fixing the date on which it is to come into force.
DR.SAUTER: What kind of directive was that?
FUNK: The decree for the application of the law of the Reich Chamber of Culture. The Reich Cabinet decreed legislation in connection with the Reich Chamber of Culture. I was not a member of the Reich Cabinet; but as State Secretary to the Propaganda Ministry I was, of course, formally responsible, And naturally I promoted propaganda, as did everyone else who occupied a leading position in the official or the intellectual life of Germany. The entire cultural life of the nation was permeated with this propaganda in a measure appropriate to the overwhelming, fundamental significance which was rightly attached to propaganda in the National Socialist State.
DR.SAUTER: Dr. Funk, the Prosecution has held you responsible for laws decreed during your term of office as press chief of the Reichsregierung. I refer, for instance, to the laws submitted under Documents Number 2962-PS and 2963-PS. These are the laws well known to you and which concern the abolition of civil rights in Germany and the abolition of the parliamentary form of government. I ask you to explain, what did you have to do with these laws? Did you as press chief under the Reich Government have any influence on the contents and promulgation of these laws?
FUNK: No. This question has already been answered in the negative by both the Reich Marshal and Dr. Lammers. All I had to do was to pass on the contents of these laws to the press, tin accordance with instructions given to me by the Fuehrer.
DR.SAUTER: So you were surely present at the sessions of the Reich Cabinet...
FUNK: Yes.