dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
MR. DODD: That Document, 3954-PS, is also now available to the Tribunal in French, Russian, German, and English; and we offer it as Exhibit USA 877. Then, Mr. President, a motion picture film was shown during this cross examination of the Defendant Funk; and the Tribunal inquired as to whether or not we would be prepared to submit affidavits giving its source, and so on. We are now prepared to do so; and we offer first an affidavit by Captain Sam Harris who arranged to have the pictures taken, which becomes Exhibit USA 878. The second affidavit is by the photographer who actually took the picture. We offer that as Exhibit USA 879. Finally, I should also like to clear up one other matter. On March 25, during the cross examination of the witness Bohle, witness for the Defendant Hess, Colonel Amen quoted from the interrogation of Von Strempel, as appears in the record beginning at Page 6482 (Volume X, Page 40). We have had the pertinent portions translated into the operating languages of the Tribunal, and we ask that this interrogation, which bears our Document Number 3800 PS, be admitted in evidence as Exhibit USA 880. I believe, Mr. President, that clears up all of the documents that we have not offered formally, up to this date.
THE PRESIDENT: Now, counsel for the Defendant Sauckel.
DR. SERVATIUS: With the permission of the Tribunal, I Will now call Defendant Sauckel to the witness stand. Am; PRESIDENT: Certainly. The Defendant Sauckel took the stand.]
THE PRESIDENT: Will you state your full name?
FRITZ SAUCKEL (Defendant): Ernst Friedrich Christoph Sauckel.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you repeat this oath after me: I swear by God-the Almighty and Omniscient-that I will speak the pure truth-and will withhold and add nothing. [The defendant repeated the oath.]
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down.
DR. SERVATIUS: Witness, please describe your career to the Tribunal.
SAUCKEL: I was the only child of the postman Friedrich Sauckel, and was born at Hassfurt on the Main near Bamberg. I attended the elementary school at Schweinfurt and the secondary school.
DR. SERVATIUS: Mow long were you at the secondary school?
SAUCKEL: For 5 years. As my father held only a very humble position, it was my mother, a seamstress, who made it possible for me to go to that school. When she became very ill with heart trouble, I saw that it would be impossible for my parents to provide for my studies, and I obtained their permission to go to sea to make a career for myself there.
DR. SERVATIUS: Did you join the merchant marine, or where did you go?
SAUCKEL: First of all I joined the Norwegian and Swedish merchant marine so that I could be thoroughly trained in seaman ship on the big sailing vessels and clippers.
DR. SERVATIUS: How old were you at the time?
SAUCKEL: At that time I was 15 1/2.
DR. SERVATIUS: What were you earning?
SAUCKEL: As a cabin boy on a Norwegian sailing ship I earned 5 kronen in addition to my keep.
DR. SERVATIUS: And then, in the course of your career at sea, where did you go next?
SAUCKEL: In the course of my career as a sailor, and during my training which I continued afterwards on German sailing vessels, I sailed on every sea and went to every part of the world.
DR. SERVATIUS: Did you come into contact with foreign families?
SAUCKEL: Through the Young Men's Christian Association, principally in Australia and North America, as well as in South America, I came into contact with families of these countries.
DR. SERVATIUS: Where were you when the first World War started?
SAUCKEL: It so happened that I was on a German sailing vessel on the way to Australia when the ship was captured, and on the high seas I was made prisoner by the French.
DR. SERVATIUS: How long did you remain prisoner?
SAUCKEL: Five years, until November 1919.
DR. SERVATIUS: And did you return home then?
SAUCKEL: Yes, I returned home then.
DR. SERVATIUS: And then what did you do?
SAUCKEL: Although I had finished my trading and studies in seamanship required of me, I could not go to sea again and take my examination, since my savings made during those years at sea had become worthless because of the German inflation. There were also few German ships and very many unemployed German seamen, so I decided to take up work in a factory in my home town of Schweinfurt.
DR. SERVATIUS: Did you remain in your home town?
SAUCKEL: At first I remained in my home town. I learned to be a turner and engineer in the Fischer ball bearing factory in order to save money so that I later could attend a technical school, an engineering college.
DR. SERVATIUS: Were you already interested in politics at that time?
SAUCKEL: Although as a sailor I despised politics-for I loved my sailor's life and still love it today-conditions forced me to take up a definite attitude towards, political problems. No one in Germany at that time could do otherwise. Many years before I had left a beautiful country and a rich nation and I returned to that country 6 years later to find it fundamentally changed and in a state of upheaval, and in great spiritual and material need.
DR. SERVATIUS: Did you join any party?
SAUCKEL: No. I worked in a factory which people in my home town described as "ultra Red." I worked in the tool shop, and right and left of me Social Democrats, Communists, Socialists, and Anarchists were working-among others my present father law- and during all the rest periods discussions went on, so that whether one wanted to or not one became involved in the social problems of the time.
DR. SERVATIUS: You mention your father-in-law. Did you marry then?
SAUCKEL: In 1923 I married the daughter of a German workman I had met at that time. I am still happily married to her today and we have 10 children.
DR. SERVATIUS: When did you join the Party?
SAUCKEL: I joined the Party definitely in 1923 after having already been in sympathy with it before.
DR. SERVATIUS: What made you do it?
SAUCKEL: One of those days I heard a speech of Hitler's. In this speech he said that the German factory worker and the German laborer must make common cause with the German brain worker. The controversies between the proletariat and the middle class must be smoothed out and bridged over by each getting to know and understand the other. Through this a new community of people would grow up, and only such a community, not bound to middle class or proletariat, could overcome the dire needs of those days and the splitting up of the German nation into parties and creeds. This statement took such hold of me and struck me so forcibly, that I dedicated my life to the idea of adjusting what seemed to be almost irreconcilable contrasts. I did that all the more, if I may say so, because I was aware of the fact that there is an inclination to go to extremes in German people, and in the German character generally. I had to examine myself very thoroughly to find the right path for me personally. As I have already said, I had hardly taken any interest in political questions. My good parents, who are no longer alive, brought me up in a strictly Christian but also in a very patriotic way. However, when I went to sea, I lived a sailor's life. I loaded saltpeter in Chile. I did heavy lumber work in Canada, in Quebec. I trimmed coal on the equator, and I sailed around Cape Horn several times. All of this was hard work; I ask...
DR. SERVATIUS: Please, come back to the question of the Party.
SAUCKEL: This has to do with the question of the Party, for we must an give some reasons as to how we got there. I myself ...
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Servatius, I stated at the beginning of the defendant's case that we had heard this account from the Defendant Goering and that we did not propose to hear it again from 20 defendants. It seems to me that we are having it inflicted upon us by nearly every one of the defendants.
DR. SERVATIUS: I believe, Mr. President, that we are interested in getting some sort of an impression of the defendant himself. Seen from various points of view, the facts look different. I will now briefly...
THE PRESIDENT: It is quite true, Dr. Servatius, but we have had half an hour, almost, of it now.
DR. SERVATIUS: I shall limit it now. The Party was dissolved in 1923, and refounded in 1925. Did you join it again?
SAUCKEL: Yes.
DR. SERVATIUS: Did you take an active part in the Party or were you just a member?
SAUCKEL: From 1925 on I took an active part in it.
DR. SERVATIUS: And what position did you hold?
SAUCKEL: I was then Gauleiter in Thuringia.
DR. SERVATIUS: Did you do that to get work, to earn your living, or for what reason?
SAUCKEL: As Gauleiter in Thuringia I earned 150 marks. In any other profession I would have had accommodations and earned more money.
DR. SERVATIUS: When did you make Hitler's acquaintance? SAUCKEL: I met him briefly in 1925.
DR. SERVATIUS: When did you become Gauleiter?
SAUCKEL: I became Gauleiter in 1927.
DR. SERVATIUS: And how were you appointed?
SAUCKEL: I was appointed by letter.
DR. SERVATIUS: Did you receive any special instructions which pointed to secret intentions of the Party?
SAUCKEL: At that time we were very definitely told that under no circumstances should there be any secret chapters or any other secrecy in the life of the Party, but that everything should be done publicly.
DR. SERVATIUS: Who was your predecessor?
SAUCKEL: Dr. Dinter.
DR. SERVATIUS: Why was he relieved of his post?
SAUCKEL: Dr. Dinter was dismissed because he wanted to found a new religious movement within the Party.
DR. SERVATIUS: In 1929 you became a member of the Thuringian Diet?
SAUCKEL: Yes.
DR. SERVATIUS: Were you elected to that?
SAUCKEL: I was elected to the Diet in the same way as at every parliamentary election.
DR. SERVATIUS: Was dictatorship in power there already at the time?
SAUCKEL: That was not possible; the province was governed in accordance with the Thuringian constitution.
DR. SERVATIUS: How long were you a member of the Diet?
SAUCKEL: I was a member of the Diet as long as it existed, until May 1933.
DR. SERVATIUS: How was it dissolved?
SAUCKEL: The Diet was dissolved by a Reich Government decree.
DR. SERVATIUS: Then in 1932, you were a member of the Provincial Government of Thuringia. How did you get into that position?
SAUCKEL: In 1932, in the month of June, new elections took place for the Thuringian Diet, and the NSDAP obtained 26 out of 60 seats.
DR. SERVATIUS: Was any mention made of a dictatorship which was to be aimed at?
SAUCKEL: No, a government was elected according to parliamentary principles. '
DR. SERVATIUS: Wed, you had a majority in the Thuringian Government, had you not, and you could use your influence?
SAUCKEL: Together with the bourgeois parties, by an absolute majority, a National Socialist government was elected.
DR. SERVATIUS: What happened to the old officials? Were they dismissed?
SAUCKEL: I myself became the President and Minister of the Interior in that government; the old officials, without exception, remained in their offices.
DR. SERVATIUS: And with what did that first National Socialist government concern itself in the field of domestic politics?
SAUCKEL: In the field of domestic politics there was only one question at that time, and that was the alleviation of an indescribable distress which is only exceeded by that of today.
DR. SERVATIUS: In this connection, Mr. President, may I submit two government reports from which I only wish to draw your attention briefly to two passages. One is the report contained in Document Number 96, which shows the activity of the government and its fight against social distress. What is particularly important when you run through it, is what is not mentioned, that is, there is no mention of the question of war or other such matters, but again and again the alleviation of distress is mentioned. And important, too, is the work that was carried out. That is in Document Number 97. In this book, on Page 45, there is a statement of the work undertaken by the government-bridge building, road making, and so on-and in no way had this work anything to do with war. Then I am submitting Document Number 95 from the same period. It is a book called Sauckel's Fighting Speeches. Here, too, the book is remarkable for what does not appear in it, namely preparations for war. Instead it emphasizes the distress which must be alleviated. It becomes clear from the Individual articles that these are speeches made during a number of years, which show in a similar way what the preoccupations were of the Defendant Sauckel It begins in 1932 with a speech dealing with the misery of the time, and ends with the final questions where reference is made once again to the alleviation of social need and the preservation of peace. The Tribunal will be able to read these articles in the document book. In 1933 you also became Reich Regent of Thuringia. How did you manage to get to that position?
SAUCKEL: I was appointed Reich Regent of Thuringia by Field Marshal Von Hindenburg, who was Reich President at that time.
DR. SERVATIUS: What were the instructions you received when you took up your offices?
SAUCKEL: When I took over my office as Reich Regent I received instructions to form a new Thuringian Government, as the Reich Regent was to keep out of the administrative affairs of a German state...
DR. SERVATIUS: You need not tell us these technical details. I mean what political task were you given?
SAUCKEL: I was given the political task of administering Thuringia as Reich Regent within the existing Reich law and prevailing Constitution, and of guaranteeing the unity of the Reich.
DR. SERVATIUS: And did the words "guarantee the unity of the Reich" mean the overpowering of others, in particular the authorities in Thuringia?
SAUCKEL: No, the authorities remained.
DR. SERVATIUS: Now, you held both the position of Gauleiter and that of Reich Regent. What was the aim of that?
SAUCKEL: Both positions were entirely separate in their organizations. Under the Regent were officials in office, and under the Gauleiter were employees of the Party. Both positions were administered absolutely separately, as is the case in any other state where members of a party are at the same time party officials or leaders and exercise both these functions simultaneously.
DR. SERVATIUS: So you received no order that one position should absorb the other?
SAUCKEL: No, I had no such orders. The tasks were entirely different.
DR. SERVATIUS: Were you a member of the SA?
SAUCKEL: I myself was never an SA man. I was an honorary Obergruppenfuehrer in the SA.
DR. SERVATIUS: How did you receive that appointment?
SAUCKEL: I cannot tell you. It was honorary.
DR. SERVATIUS: Were you appointed SS Obergruppenfuehrer by Himmler?
SAUCKEL: No, the Fuehrer made me honorary SS Obergruppenfuehrer for no special reason and without functions.
DR. SERVATIUS: Were you a member of the Reichstag?
SAUCKEL: Yes, from 1933 on.
DR. SERVATIUS: As a member of the Reichstag, did you know anything in advance about the beginning of the war? Were you informed?
SAUCKEL: I was never informed in advance about the start of the war or about foreign political developments. I merely remember that quite suddenly-it may have been during the days between 24 August and the end of August-we were called to a session of the Reichstag in Berlin. This session was canceled at the time, and we were later ordered to go to the Fuehrer, that is, the Gauleiter and Reichsleiter. But a number had already left so that the circle was not complete. The conference, or Hitler's speech, only lasted a short time. He said, roughly, that the meeting of the Reichstag could not take place as things were still in the course of development. He was convinced that there would not be a war. He said he hoped there would be some settlement in a small way and meant by that, as I had to conclude, a solution without the parts of Upper Silesia lost in 1921. He said-and that I remember exactly-that Danzig would become German, and apart from that Germany would be given a railway line with several tracks, like a Reichsautobahn, with a strip of ground to the right and left of it. He told us to go home and prepare for the Reich Party Rally, where we would meet again.
DR. SERVATIUS: Did you have any close connections with the Fuehrer?
SAUCKEL: I personally, as far as I know the Fuehrer, had a great deal of admiration for him. But I had no close connection with him that one could describe as personal. I had a number of discussions with him about the administration of my Gau and in particular about the care he wished to be given to cultural buildings in Thuringia-in Weimar, Eisenach, and Meiningen; and later on there were more frequent meetings because of my position as Plenipotentiary General for the Allocation of Labor.
DR. SERVATIUS: We shall come to that later. What connections did you have with the Reichsleiter?
SAUCKEL: My connections with the Reichsleiter were no different from my connections with the Fuehrer. They were of an official and Party nature. As regards personal relationships I cannot say that I had any particularly personal intercourse with anyone.
DR. SERVATIUS: What about your connection with the Reich Ministers?
SAUCKEL: My connection with the Reich Ministers was of a purely official nature and was very infrequent.
DR. SERVATIUS: What about the Wehrmacht?
SAUCKEL: I could not have the honor of being a German soldier because of my imprisonment in the first World War. And in this World War the Fuehrer refused to allow me to serve as a soldier.
DR. SERVATIUS: Witness, you have held a number of high positions and offices. You knew the Reich Ministers and Reichsleiter. Will you please explain why you went aboard the submarine at that time?
SAUCKEL: I had repeatedly made written requests to the Fuehrer that I might be allowed to join the Wehrmacht as an ordinary soldier. He refused to give me this permission. So I arranged in secret for someone to take my place and went aboard Captain Salmann's submarine with his agreement. As a former sailor and now a politician in a high position I wanted to give these brave submarine men a proof of my comradeship and understanding and of my sense of duty. Apart from that I had 10 children for whom, as their father, I had to do something too.
DR. SERVATIUS: I should like now, in a number of questions, to refer to your activities. Were you a member of a trade union?
SAUCKEL: No.
DR. SERVATIUS: Do you know what the aims of German trade unions were?
SAUCKEL: Yes, I do.
DR. SERVATIUS: Were they economic or political?
SAUCKEL: As I, as a worker, came to know them, the aims of German trade unions were political, and there were a number of different trade unions with varied political views. I considered that a great misfortune. As workman in the workshop I had had experience of the arguments among the trade unionists between the Christian Socialist trade unions and the Red trade unions, between the syndicalist, the anarchist and the communist trade unions.
DR. SERVATIUS: The trade unions in your Gau were then dissolved. Were the leaders arrested at the time?
SAUCKEL: No.
DR. SERVATIUS: Did you approve of the dissolution of the trade unions?
SAUCKEL: The dissolution of the trade unions was in the air then. The question was discussed in the Party for a long time and there was no agreement at all as to the position trade unions should hold, nor as to their necessity, their usefulness and their nature. But a solution had to be found because the trade unions which we, or the Fuehrer, or Dr. Ley, dissolved all held different political views. From that time on, however, there was only one party in Germany and it was necessary, I fully realize, to come to a definite decision as to the actual duties of the trade unions, the necessary duties indispensable to every calling and to workers everywhere.
DR. SERVATIUS: Was not the purpose of removing the trade unions to remove any opposition which might stand in the way of an aggressive war?
SAUCKEL: I can say in all good conscience that during those years not one of us ever thought about a war at all. We had to overcome such terrible need that we should have been only too glad if German economic life could have been started again in peace and if the German worker, who had suffered the most during that frightful depression, could have had work and food once more.
DR. SERVATIUS: Did members of trade unions suffer economically through the dissolution?
SAUCKEL: In no way. My own father law, who was a member of a trade union and still is today, and whom I repeatedly asked for information, whom I never persuaded to join the Party- he was a Social Democrat and never joined the Party-confirmed the fact that even when he was getting old and could no longer work, the German Labor Front never denied him the rights due to him as an old trade unionist and by virtue of his long trade union membership, but allowed him full benefits. On the other hand, the German State-since in Germany old age and disability insurance and the accident insurance, et cetera, were paid and organized by the State-the National Socialist State guaranteed him all these rights and made full payment.
DR. SERVATIUS: Were all Communist leaders arrested in your Gau after the Party came to power?
SAUCKEL: No. In my Gau, as far as I know, only Communists who had actually worked against the State were arrested.
DR SERVATIUS: And what happened to them? SAUCKEL; The State Police arrested and interrogated them and detained them according to the findings.
DR. SERVATIUS: Did you have Kreisleiter in your Gau who had been members of a former opposition party?
SAUCKEL: The Party's activity was recruiting. Our most intensive work was the winning over of political opponents. I am very proud of the fact that many workers in my Gau, numerous former Communists and Social Democrats, were won over by us and became local group leaders and Party functionaries.
DR. SERVATIUS: But were there not two Kreisleiter from the extreme left appointed by you?
SAUCKEL: One Kreisleiter from the extreme left was appointed. Also, besides a number of other leaders, the Gau sectional manager of the German Labor Front had belonged to the extreme left for a long time.
DR. SERVATIUS: How did you personally deal with your political opponents?
SAUCKEL: Political opponents who did not work against the State were neither bothered nor harmed in my Gaul
DR. SERVATIUS: Do you know the Socialist Deputy Frohlich?
SAUCKEL: The Socialist Deputy August Frohlich was my strongest and most important opponent. He was the leader of the Thuringian Social Democrats and was for many years the Social Democrat Prime Minister of Thuringia. I had great respect for him as an opponent. He was an honorable and upright man. On 20 July 1944, through my own personal initiative, I had him released from detention. He had been on the list of the conspirators of 20 July, but I had so much respect for him personally that, in spite of that, I asked for his release and obtained it.
DR. SERVATIUS: Did you treat other opponents similarly?
SAUCKEL: I also had a politician of the Center Party I knew in my home town of Schweinfurt released from detention.
DR. SERVATIUS: The Concentration Camp of Buchenwald was in your Gaul Did you establish it?