dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
SIEVERS: Yes, but the account is quite incomplete. When this discussion took place, Rascher had already long ago been arrested, and it was known that he himself had carried out this experiment. Since it was Dr. Plotner who had perfected this medicine, I told Pohl about the experiments in detail and submitted to him the expert opinion of Professor Breitner and Professor Denk from Vienna. The picture presented in this document is completely misleading.
MAJOR JONES: Witness, Rascher is dead. It is convenient to cast all the blame on to him, isn't it?
SIEVERS: The point in this case is to clarify the facts, and I can only say what is true and what I know exactly.
MAJOR JONES: Did you have anything to do with the experiments into the cause of contagious jaundice?
SIEVERS: No, I do not know anything about them.
MAJOR JONES: I want you to look at Document Number 010, Page 4 of the English document book, My Lord, Exhibit GB-584. That is a letter, as you see, from Grawitz to Himmler. It is dated I June 1943 and headed "Top Secret. Subject: Investigation into the cause of contagious jaundice."
THE PRESIDENT: What is the signature?
MAJOR JONES: That is the signature of Grawitz, is it not, the Reich Physician of the SS and Police?
SIEVERS: Yes.
MAJOR JONES: "Reichsfuehrer: The Fuehrer's Commissioner General, SS Brigadefuehrer Professor Dr. Brandt. .."-pausing there for a moment-he was the Reich Commissioner for Health and Sanitation, wasn't he?
SIEVERS: Yes.
MAJOR JONES: "The Fuehrer's Commissioner General called on me with the request that I should assist him by placing prisoners at his disposal for research work into the cause of contagious jaundice which he was' furthering considerably. "The work has been carried out up to now by a Stabsarzt Dr. Dohmen, within the framework of the Research Institute of the Army Medical Inspectorate, and with the participation of the Robert Koch Institute. It has up to now led to the result, in agreement with the findings of other German research workers, that contagious jaundice is not carried by bacteria but by a virus. In order to increase our knowledge, which is based up to now only on vaccination experiments from men to animals, the reverse way is now necessary, namely, the vaccination of the cultivated virus into humans. One must reckon on cases of death. "The therapeutic and above all the. prophylactic results are naturally largely dependent on this last experimental step. Eight prisoners condemned to death would be required, if possible of fairly young age, within the prisoners' hospital of Sachsenhausen concentration camp. I respectfully ask for a decision, Reichsfuehrer, as to: "1. Whether I may start the experiments in the prescribed form; "2. Whether the experiments may be carried out in the Sachsenhausen prison hospital by Stabsarzt Dr. Dohmen himself. "Although Herr Dohmen does not belong to the SS (he is an SA leader and a Party member), I would recommend this as an exception in the interests of the continuity of the series of experiments and thus of the accuracy of the results. The practical importance of the question raised for our own troops, especially in southern Russia, is shown by the fact that this illness has been very common in the past years, both amongst us in the Waffen-SS and Police and in the Army, so that companies have been reduced by 60 percent for periods of up to 6 weeks." And then there follows some more comment about the illness, and that is signed by Grawitz. Grawitz was the vice president of the German Red Cross, wasn't he?
SIEVERS: Yes.
MAJOR JONES: I want to turn to the Document Number 011 on Page 5 of the English document book-Exhibit GB-585. That is the reply of Himmler to the letter of Grawitz. It is dated 16 June 1943. "Subject: Research into the cause of contagious Jaundice," and Himmler says: "I give permission for 8 criminals condemned to death in Auschwitz (8 Jews of the Polish resistance movement who have been condemned to death) to be used for the experiments. , "I agree to Dr. Dohmen carrying out these experiments at Sachsenhausen. Like you, I am of the opinion that a real combating of contagious jaundice would be of inestimable value."-And then it is signed by Himmler with a note at the bottom: "SS Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl, Berlin. Copy sent with a request that note be taken." Those experiments into the cause of contagious jaundice were done for the Waffen-SS and for the Army, weren't they?
SLEVERS: I hear of these things for the first time today. I know nothing about them and I cannot see what connection I can have with them.
MAJOR JONES: If you please, I want you to deal next with your experiments into typhus vaccine. Perhaps you may be a little more familiar with the nature of those experiments. Have you any knowledge of those? Professor Haagen might give you a clue.
SIEVERS: Yes, Professor Haagen did carry out vaccinations against typhus at Natzweiler, at the request of the camp where this disease had broken out.
MAJOR JONES: Who delegated Haagen for this work?
SIEVERS: He was not delegated at all. He was the hygienist at the University of Strasbourg.
MAJOR JONES: But I asked you who delegated him for this work, and not what his qualifications were for it.
SIEVERS: As far as I recall, these experiments were carried through by Haagen on order of the Medical Inspectorate of the Wehrmacht and of the Luftwaffe.
MAJOR JONES: He was commissioned by G6ring, wasn't he?
SIEVERS: I do not know who commissioned him on behalf of the Luftwaffe.
MAJOR JONES: Well, just look at your own letter on this subject, Document Number 008, the first document in the English document book, Exhibit GB-586. It is headed "Institute of Scientific Research for Military Purposes", dated 19 May 1944. That was after Rascher had been removed from the scene. It is to: "SS Obergruppenfuehrer and General of the Waffen-SS Pohl, Chief of the VFVHA. Subject: Production of a new kind Of typhus serum." "Dear Obergruppenfuehrer: Following our application of 30 September 1943, you gave your authorization on 25 October'1943 for the carrying out of experiments with a view to producing a new kind of typhus serum and transferred 100 suitable prisoners to Natzweiler for this purpose. It has been possible to carry out the experiments very satisfactorily so far with the help of the chief of Department D III, SS Standartenfuehrer Dr. Dolling, commissioned by you." Then there follows a number of sentences dealing with the medical aspects and scientific aspects of it. Then a few lines down: "I therefore request you to detail persons to Natzweiler again for the purpose of inoculation. In order to obtain results which are as accurate as possible and can also be utilized for statistical purposes, 200 persons should be placed at our disposal for inoculation this time; it is also again necessary that they be as far as possible in the same physical conditions as is encountered among members of the Armed Forces. If imperative reasons should demand that 200 persons should not be transferred to Natzweiler for the experiments, the experiments could be carried out in another concentration camp, although it would entail great difficulties. The overcoming of these difficulties would, if necessary, have to be accepted by the scientists employed-although the latter are at the same time very much tied down to the University of Strasbourg owing to their lecturing activities-as the results which will certainly be achieved are of the most far-reaching importance for maintaining the health of our soldiers.
MAJOR JONES: As I have informed you, the direction for carrying out the experiments is in the hands of the director of the Hygienic Institute of the Reich University of Strasbourg, Professor Dr. Haagen, Oberstabsarzt and consulting hygienist to an air fleet, who was commissioned with this task by the Reich Marshal as President of the Reich Research Council. In accordance with his instructions, Dr. Haagen has to report about his work to the chief of the Luftwaffe medical services; in doing this he has to mention with whose support the work is carried out; that is, first, the Reich Research Council and secondly, the SS. I -request your decision which of the following is to be mentioned as the supporting authority of the SS; a) the Reichsfuehrer SS; or, b) Economic and Administrative Main Office; or, c) the Institute of Scientific Research for Military Purposes of the Waffen-SS." Are you still saying that Goering didn't commission Haagen?
SIEVERS: Yes, I still maintain that. It says here, "Reich Marshal, President of the Reich Research Council." That does not at all mean that Herr G6ring had knowledge of all these commissions of which tens of thousands were given in his name and on his stationery. The various authorized persons and offices concerned were competent in this respect, and that is evident from this document which lists the chief of the Luftwaffe medical services.
MAJOR JONES: The Tribunal has this document before it, so I am not going to argue with you on it.
THE PRESIDENT: Who signed the letter?
MAJOR JONES: The letter is signed by you, isn't it?
SIEVERS: Yes.
MAJOR JONES: And you mentioned G6ring specifically by name, not simply Reich Research Council. Now just look at the Document Number 009 which is further to that letter of yours. It will be GB-587. It is Page 3 of the document book. That deals with the question as to who is to have the honor of having taken the lead in these experiments. It is to the "Reichsfuehrer SS, Personal Staff." Whose signature is at the bottom of that letter?
SIEVERS: The personal secretary of the Reichsfuehrer, Dr. Brandt.
MAJOR JONES: It is dated 6 June 1944, subject: "Production of a new kind of serum against typhus. "Dear Comrade Sievers, Thanks very much for sending the copy of your letter of 19 May 1944 to SS Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl. I have informed the Reichsfuehrer SS, as the matter seemed to me to be sufficiently important. In answer to the question as to who is to be designated as the supporting authority of the SS, the Reichsfuehrer SS said that both the SS Economic Administrative Main Office (WVHA) and the Institute of Scientific Research for Specific Military Purposes should be mentioned. In addition, there is no objection to saying straight out that the Reichsfuehrer SS has also personally supported the experiments." Now what was your connection with the experiments into sterilization? Witness, I will just remind you that they were of three kinds. There were the experiments with the juice of a plant Caladium Siguinum, experiments with X-ray sterilization, and Klauberg's experiments on sterilization without operation. I have no doubt you remember them?
SIEVERS: No, I do not remember them. I do not know them.
MAJOR JONES: Do you know w14o was carrying them out?
SIEVERS: No, I do not know.
MAJOR JONES: Look at the Document Number 035, which will be GB-589, Page 7 of Your Lordship's English document book. Page 8 of the German document book. That is a letter to the Reich Plenipotentiary for the Consolidation of German Folkdom, Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler, Chief of Police, Berlin. That was another arm of the SS that was interested in these medical experiments, was it not? Did you hear my question?
SIEVERS: Yes. The address is completely wrong. It should just read: The Reich Commissioner for the Consolidation of German Folkdom.
MAJOR JONES: I asked you whether it was another branch of the SS that was involved in these medical experiments?
SIEVERS: No, it had nothing to do with it.
MAJOR JONES: I'll just read the letter in that' case. It has the initials of Himmler on the top, has it not, "H. H." You are extremely familiar with them.
SIEVERS: Yes.
MAJOR JONES: The letter reads: "I beg you to' direct your attention to the following statements. I have asked Professor H6hn to hand this letter to you and have thus selected the direct path to you in order to avoid the slower official channels and to eliminate the possibility of an indiscretion, bearing in mind the enormous importanc4, under certain circumstances, of the idea submitted. Prompted by the thought that the enemy must not only be conquered but exterminated, I feel obliged to submit the following to you as the Reich Plenipotentiary for the Consolidation of German Folkdom. Dr. Madaus is publishing the results of his research into sterilization by medicaments (I enclose both studies). In reading this article, I was struck by the enormous importance of this medicament in the present struggle of our people. Should it be possible to produce as soon as possible as a result of this research, a medicament which, after a comparatively brief period, would cause an unnoticed sterilization in individuals, we would have at our disposal a new and very effective weapon. The thought alone that the,3 million Bolshevik~ now in German captivity could be sterilized, so that they. would be available for work but precluded from propagation, opens up the most far-reaching perspectives. Madaus discovered that the juice of the plant Caladium Seguinum, swallowed or injected, produces after a certain time, particularly in male animals, but also in females, a lasting sterility. The illustrations which accompany the scientific work are convincing. Provided that the idea expressed by me meets with your approval, the following path could be followed: (1) Dr. Madaus should not publish any more studies of this kind (the enemy is listening in!); (2) Cultivation of the plant (easily raised in greenhouses!); (3) Immediate experiments on humans (criminals) in order to ascertain the dose and the duration of treatment; (4) The quickest possible discovery of the formula of the composition of the effective chemical agent in ord6r; (5) To produce the same synthetically if possible.
MAJOR JONES: I myself, as a German physician and a retired Oberarzt of the reserve in the medical corps of the German Armed Forces, undertake to observe complete silence on the use to which the subject raised by me in this letter is to be put. Heil Hitler:" -signed-"Dr. Ad. Pokorny, specialist on skin and venereal diseases." Do you know that subsequent to that, greenhouses were erected and these plants were cultivated?
SIEVERS: No, I do not know that. I only remember in this connection that this publication of Dr. Madaus, but without reference to this rather strange suggestion of Dr. Pokorny, was sent for comment to Dr. Von Wunzelburg, who was an authority on tropical plants, and who told us immediately that such a plant could not be raised here and was not even available.
MAJOR JONES: I appreciate the difficulties of growing these tropical plants in Germany, but an attempt was made to grow them, was it not?
SIEVERS: I do not know whether an attempt was made.
MAJOR JONES: Grawitz, the Reich Surgeon of the SS, was in charge of these sterilization experiments, was he not?
SIEVERS: I do not know that, either. It may be.
MAJOR JONES: Now, apart from these experiments, scientific murder, the "Ahnenerbe" was used for political purposes, was it not?
SIEVERS: Political purposes? What do you mean by that in this connection?
MAJOR JONES: Fifth column activity abroad, for instance. The penetration of the scientific thought' of other countries as a method of political influence.
SIEVERS: No.
MAJOR JONES: Just look at the Document Number 1698-PS, will you? It is inserted before Page 20 of the English document book. There is just one page of it. 1698-PS will be Exhibit GB-589. It is an annual report dated 17 November 1944. "Das Almenerbe (The Heritage of the Ancestors), Germanic Scientific Mission, Outpost Flanders, SS-Obersturmfuehrer (F) Dr. Augustin. Annual report. "The work is aimed at an intellectual deepening and broadening especially in the intellectual circles of Flanders and the Walloon district. In following the Germanic line which the SS represents, 1. The liberal-humanistic educational front must be invaded by winning over occupants of intellectual key positions; 2. Combating the great German myths with the idea of the Great-Germanic Reich community; 3. To promote the revival of the consciousness of German culture and German folkdom with the exceedingly effective-though neutrally camouflaged-political propaganda agent of science, bearing in mind the arrogant French assumptions of culture and the Flemish inferiority complex." Then in the next paragraph it says: "Thereby those circles of intelligentsia can be reached which hitherto have not been affected by the official press and propaganda. In university, college, and scientific policies, in the promotion of students' interests and in the granting of scholarships, in the selection for college training and in the education and promotion of the talented, our work must make an effort. To control, influence, and bind the holders of intellectual key positions (for example college professors, associations of lawyers, tutors, students, artists), that is the mission . . ."
THE PRESIDENT: Well Mr. Elwyn Jones, are you submitting that this is a crime?
MAJOR JONES: Yes, My Lord, I am submitting that it is an essential part of the machinery of this last instrument. First of all the perversion of science, secondly of using that perversion to infiltrate other countries. But I won't press the matter at all. Now ' Witness, the "Almenerbe" was a component part of the SS, was it not?
SIEVERS: I gave detailed evidence on this matter before the Commission. The Germanic scientific mission was subordinate to the SS Main Office. Dr. Augustin was appointed as expert for this work which in itself was only a continuation of the activity of many previous decades. I cannot believe that this amounts to fifth column activity or misuse of science for political purposes. MAJOR JONES: I was asking you generally as to the "Ahnenerbe"; that is, was it a department of the SS? Look at Document 488-PS, Page 19a of the English document book. That is Himmler's order with regard to the "Ahnenerbe." I only want to draw your attention to the first paragraph. "I, the undersigned Reichsfuehrer SS Heinrich Himmler, hereby certify that the research and teaching society 'Das Ahnenerbe'... and the 'Ahnenerbestiftung' (Ancestral Research Institute) are parts of my personal staff and thus are departments of the SS." The funds of the Institute for Scientific -Research, they came from the Waffen-SS funds, did they not?
SIEVERS: I testified on both of these points before the Commission. I said that the "Ahnenerbe" became an office in the personal staff of the Reichsfuehrer SS in 1942 and that its status as a registered association was not affected thereby. I said that the funds of the "Ahnenerbe" came from the Ahnenerbestiftung, from funds of the German Forschungsgemeinschaft (Research Society), from fees of members, from funds of the Reich and from contributions of industry. Waffen-SS and Wehrmacht funds were, as I stated before, put at the disposal of the Institute of Scientific Research for Specific Military Purposes only.
MAJOR JONES: The members of the "Ahnenerbe" that. were carrying out these experiments were all SS men, were they not? I want you just to look at the nominal roll of the "Ahnenerbe." Document D-962 which is the last document I am putting to you. It will be GB-591. You see the names of Professor Dr. Walter Wust, SS Oberfuehrer Dr. Hans Brandt? And you see as you go down the whole of that list, that with one exception they are all officers of the SS, are they not?
SIEVERS: Yes but with the difference that it does not show for what purpose it is drawn up, because it merely lists the SS leaders in the "Ahnenerbe" with reference to their marital status and the number of their children. I have- already said that approximately one-half of the colleagues belonged to the SS, the other half not at all.
MAJOR JONES: There are over 100 names there of professors and German doctors connected with your work. They were all with one exception members of the SS. Were they not?
SIEVERS: But they are not all scientists, the list also includes truck drivers. I have to go through the list before being able to answer the question.
MAJOR JONES: I don't want to go through the whole list, but they are all SS men, are they not, and they were all employed on the work of the "Ahnenerbe."
SIEVERS: No, indeed they were not. The list includes also honorary members who only had a research commission.
MAJOR JONES: I have no more questions, My Lord.
SIEVERS: May I now be allowed to complete my statement?
THE PRESIDENT: Perhaps we had better have the re-examination first. ,HERR PELCKMANN: Witness, what was the purpose of the "Ahnenerbe" institute? Was its purpose medical research or any other research? Please be brief in your answer.
SIEVERS: Its purpose was to carry out research, in the Arts and Sciences, as set down in the statute of the "Ahnenerbe."
HERR PELCKMANN: Is it correct that the "Ahnenerbe" had about 50 different research commissions?
SIEVERS: The "Ahnenerbe" had 50 different research branches. These were institutes. Beyond that it carried out more than 100 extensive research projects.
HERR PELCKMANN: Did the Institute of Scientific Research for Specific Military Purposes fall under the research projects and the various institutes which you have just mentioned?
SIEVERS: It was a separate gr9up within the "Ahnenerbe." That may also be seen from the fact that it was financed ...
HERR PELCKMANN: Please do not answer that now. I am now asking you only if it was one of the institutes which you mentioned. I shall put other questions and you will have further opportunity of speaking.
SIEVERS: No, it was not one of the institutes I just mentioned.
HERR PELCKMANN: But you heard that the Institute of Scientific Research for Specific Military Purposes carried out experiments; is that correct?
SIEVERS: Yes.
HERR PELCKMANN: How were the projects and the institutes of the "Ahnenerbe" financed?
SIEVERS: The Ahnenerbestiftung administered all the funds which it received, and made them available to the "Ahnenerbe."
HERR PELCKMANN: Where did the funds come from?
SIEVERS: From the means of the German Research Society, from membership dues, from funds of the Reich.
HERR PELCKMANN: What do you mean by membership dues? What members?
SIEVERS: The inscribed members. Every German could become a member of the "Ahnenerbe."
HERR PELCKMANN: Were they SS members?
SIEVERS: No, everybody could become a member. Membership neither of the Party nor of the SS was a condition. ' HERR PELCKMANN: You said that the money came from membership dues. Where else did the money come from?
SIEVERS: From contributions of industry.
HERR PELCKMANN: And where did the funds for the so-called Institute of Scientific Research for Specific Military Purposes come from?
SIEVERS: Solely from Wehrmacht funds which had to be separately accounted for according to the regulations...
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Pelckmann, I have got before me the Commission evidence about all this. This is all stated in the Commission evidence, is it not? I have it before me.
HERR PELCKMANN: Quite right, Your Lordship, but the Prosecution also raised the questions just now, and in such a way that the witness had, no chance to give an exhaustive reply.