dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
HERRWERTH: In order to answer that question, I have to explain a little further. When Herr Streicher went to bed, I was usually with him or the house superintendent. On that evening Herr Stretcher went to bed earlier than usual. I do not know the reason. And that concluded my work for the day. I went from Herr Streicher to the Casino of the Gauleitung. That was in the cellar of the Gauleitung building on Schlageterstrasse. I played cards there. And then the former SA Obergruppenfuehrer, Von Obernitz, came and called me, as was customary, by the name of Fritz and told me he had to speak to Herr Streicher very urgently; and I answered him that Herr Streicher had already gone to bed. Then he said. "Then I must rouse him," and he told me he would assume the responsibility; it was an important affair. Herr Von Obernitz went to Herr Streicher's apartment in my car. Herr Streicher's bedroom is above my apartment. I had the keys and of course I could get in at any time. On the way to the apartment at night I noticed that many SA men were in the streets. I asked Herr Von Obernitz the reason for that. He told me that that night something was going to happen; the Jewish homes were to be destroyed. He did not say anything further to me. I accompanied Herr Von Obernitz all the way to the bed of Herr Streicher. Herr Von Obernitz then reported to Streicher about what was happening that night. I cannot recall the details very well any more, but I believe that he said that that night the Jewish homes were to be destroyed. Herr Streicher was, if I may say so, surprised. He had not known anything about it. He said literally to Herr Von Obernitz, and I remember that very clearly, "That is wrong. One does not solve the Jewish question that way. Do what you have been ordered. I shall have no part in it. If anything should occur so that you need me, then you may come for me." I can also mention that thereupon Herr Von Obernitz said that Hitler had declared that the SA should be allowed to have a fling as retribution for what had occurred in Paris in connection with Herr Vom Rath.
HERRWERTH: Streicher stayed in bed and did not go out during that night.
DR. MARX: Did Herr Von Obernitz mention anything about the fact that the synagogues were to be set on fire?
HERRWERTH: I believe so, yes. But, as far as I remember, Herr Streicher refused to do that, too, because the synagogue, as far as I know, was burned down by the regular fire department, and upon orders from Herr Von Obernitz.
DR. MARX: How do you know that?
HERRWERTH: I was there.
DR. MARX: Did you watch it?
HERRWERTH: Yes. I was at the synagogue during the night.
DR. MARX: And how could one assume that the regular fire department started the fire?
HERRWERTH: How that could be assumed I do not know, but I saw it. The regular fire department started the fire.
DR. MARX: Were you there in time to see how the fire was started or did you arrive when the building was already on fire?
HERRWERTH: The building was not yet on fire, but the fire department was there already.
DR. MARX.: Is that right?
HERRWERTH: I can say nothing else.
DR. MARX: Did Herr Streicher at that time mention anything about the fact that he was afraid of a new wave of excitement on the part of the world press if the synagogue was burned? Did he say that that is why he refused to do it?
HERRWERTH: I believe so, yes, but I could not say definitely; but, if I remember correctly, they spoke about that.
DR. MARX: Did Obernitz say from whom he had received the order?
HERRWERTH: He only repeated what Hitler had said-the SA should be allowed to have a fling.
DR. MARX: Is it correct that you, Witness, told your wife during the same night about that conversation between Obernitz and Streicher?
HERRWERTH: I believe I did not speak about the conversation; but when I walked down from the second floor to the ground floor through my apartment, I told my wife that I would probably be a little late because that night that action was going to be started; I told her briefly what was happening but nothing about the conversation.
DR. MARX: Then, later you were at the Pleikershof when Streicher had been forced to retire there or had retired? HERRWERTH Yes. .
DR. MARX: Do you remember an incident where the future Frau Streicher spoke about the incidents at Magdeburg which had occurred there the same night?
HERRWERTH: No, I know nothing of that.
DR. MARX: Did you not tell the then Frau Merkel that she should not talk about these incidents because Streicher always got very excited about them?
HERRWERTH: I can recall that Herr Streicher once said that he had been right in his opinion, for, not long after that night he received information-I do not know through whom-that, for instance, the glass for the window panes had to be bought from Holland again. Herr Streicher said then that that was the first confirmation of the correctness of the opinion he had expressed at that time.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Marx, just one moment. Sir David, would it be convenient to you and the counsel for the Defendant Von Schirach if we discussed the question about the documents at 0930 tomorrow morning?
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: My Lord, I will find out. Yes, counsel for Von Schirach says that he thinks it is all right.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, 0930 tomorrow morning.
DR. MARX: What observations did you make during your stay at Pleikershof about the attitude of Streicher with regard to the Jewish question? What was that about the Israelitisches Wochenblatt ?
HERRWERTH: Well, what do you want to know about the Israelitisches Wochenblatt ? Herr Streicher received it.
DR. MARX: Did he receive it regularly?
HERRWERTH: Yes, I believe I can say that quite certainly. I always saw large bundles of newspapers of the Israelitisches Wochenblatt . They came continuously.
DR. MARX: Herr Streicher said that during the first years of the war he had great difficulty in getting that paper and the Police did not release it easily.
HERRWERTH: Yes, that can very well be. For I do not know, after all, of what year they were. I just saw them and it is difficult for me to tell now of what date these papers were.
DR. MARX: Yes, you said there were always large bundles of them.
HERRWERTH: Yes, on and off, but there were other newspapers too. Swiss newspapers were there, the Israelitisches Wochenblatt , and so on. There were always so many newspapers lying about and among them I saw here and there the Israelitisches Wochenblatt . I mean to say that it would not be possible for me to say how many there were.
DR. MARX: All right. Did Streicher speak at times about his knowledge of happenings in the East or of happenings in concentration camps in the East?
HERRWERTH: Well. Herr Streicher did not know anything at all about it. Thus he could not say anything about it. At least that is my conviction.
DR. MARX: Did you, then, ever speak to him about it?
HERRWERTH: Not that I know of; I did not know anything about it myself.
DR. MARX: Did you ever receive knowledge of a letter in which Streicher was reproached by Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler because he treated the French prisoners too well? Did you understand me?
HERRWERTH: Yes, I understood, but I have to think about it. I know quite well that Herr Streicher once mentioned something about the treatment of prisoners. I know that the Frenchmen were treated very well, but whether the cause for that was a letter from Himmler I do not know.
DR. MARX: No, no. The cause for the good treatment, you mean?
HERRWERTH: No, the cause for Herr Streicher's speaking about it. Herr Streicher spoke about reproaches against the good treatment of the Frenchmen; but I do not know whether the fact that he spoke about it was due to a letter from Himmler. But I do not believe that there was a single Frenchman who could complain in any way about the treatment.
DR. MARX: You were no longer present when the Frenchmen left?
HERRWERTH: No.
DR. MARX: Do you know about an incident when the publisher Fink came into the garden of Streicher's home and admitted having lied to the police in an affair concerning shares?
HERRWERTH: The question must be put in detail, Mr. Attorney, for I do not know all about it, only part of it. I know that the then Director Fink stood in tears before Streicher, that he wailed, that he accused himself, saying that he was a rascal and a traitor. But why, I do not know. For Herr Streicher then walked farther into the garden with him, and I only saw that Herr Fink wept, and again heard how he accused himself.
DR. MARX: Do you know that Streicher at certain intervals brought people from the SPD and the KPD (Social Democratic Party and Communist Party) from the Dachau Concentration Camp?
HERRWERTH: Yes.
DR. MARX: How many do you suppose there were?
HERRWERTH: I do not know. It was every year around Christmas time. I estimate that there were about 100 to 150 men every year. They came from Dachau. Herr Streicher had dinner prepared for them in a separate room, in the Hotel Deutscher Hof, and I believe that used to be the family reunion-that is to say, the prisoners rejoined the members of their family. Streicher also saw to it that released prisoners found work, and he intervened personally for them.
DR. MARX: Did he also get work for one or another of these released persons?
HERRWERTH: Yes.
DR. MARX: What do you know about that?
HERRWERTH: I remember that three men, I believe, came into the Mars motorcycle factory. Herr Streicher at that time told the plenipotentiary of the German Labor Front to find positions for these people, as far as I remember.
DR. MARX: What was the attitude of Streicher when he found out that members of the Party had acquired cars and villas of Jewish property at very low prices?
HERRWERTH: I can still remember when Herr Streicher returned from Berlin. I do not know how much Herr Streicher knew at that time about these purchases; but at any rate, when Herr Streicher returned from Berlin where Herr Goering had expressed his views about these low-priced purchases of buildings, Herr Streicher, just arrived at the Nuremberg railroad station, said- and I heard it myself-that these purchases had to be nullified at once. Besides. I know only about one case where a Party member had to do with the purchase of a house. I do not know whether there were more of them.
DR. MARX: Do you know whether Streicher was under surveillance by the Gestapo while on his farm and that there was a prohibition against visiting him there?
HERRWERTH: In answering the first question, I cannot say for sure that Criminal Police agents were there. I cannot affirm categorically that Herr Streicher was once under observation, but it could be safely assumed. I know of a woman who even stated that she had been photographed in the forest when she came from the railroad station to the farm. And what was the second question?
DR. MARX: Whether people were prohibited from visiting him.
HERRWERTH: Yes. I met various members of the Party within the city and whomever I asked said to me, "Impossible to get out there, impossible to get out there." And if I asked who had issued the prohibition, then no one would talk about it; but as one heard it here and there, this prohibition was said to have been issued by the Deputy of the Fuehrer, Herr Hess.
DR. MARX: Do you know anything about the fact that Streicher, when he found out that acts of violence against Jews or other political adversaries were intended, stopped them immediately?
HERRWERTH: Yes. At least, on the basis of his statements. He always said that that was wrong.
DR. MARX: Do you know of any case where he took measures against somebody who had been a party to such acts of violence? If you do not know it, say you do not know.
HERRWERTH: Very well, at this moment I cannot recall any case.
DR. MARX: Do you know anything about that affair concerning the Mars Works shares? What do you know about it?
HERRWERTH: Yes. I know about that case through statements made by Streicher at that time. I was not a witness to these events myself, but Herr Streicher once related to me what had happened. Shall I describe it briefly?
DR. MARX: Yes, but very condensed, please.
HERRWERTH: Streicher was in a Turkish bath at the time when the Director Fink and his adjutant, Koenig, came and offered to sell the shares to Herr Streicher. Herr Streicher said, "What kind of shares are they?" The answer was, "They are shares of the Mars Works." He said, "How many?" The answer was "100,000 marks' worth." Then Streicher said, 'what do the shares cost?" He was told "5,000 marks." Herr Streicher asked, "Why are these shares so cheap?" Finally Herr Fink said, I believe, "Because they are Jewish shares." Whoever knows Herr Streicher as I do, knows that Herr Streicher has never taken anything from a Jew. He protested very emphatically against the fact that such an offer had been made to him at all. That seemed to settle the matter for the time being, and then suddenly the then Gauleiter Herr Streicher had the thought that with that money he could possibly construct the third Gau building. He mentioned that to the gentlemen as they left, and they decided to buy the shares. Herr Streicher forbade them to use Party money. Then both did not know what to do. Herr Streicher said he would advance these 5,000 marks. That settled the case, but I had another experience later. It was about one and a half years after that trial that Streicher had had in Munich, when he was dismissed. At that time the wife of NSKK Obergruppenfuehrer Zuehlen came to me and asked whether I already knew that the criminal police was again in Nuremberg concerning the Streicher case. I said "no" to Frau Zuehlen and added, "If they want to find out something why do they not come out to the farm to Herr Streicher himself? He will give them all the necessary information." After about 2 to 3 weeks, I met the Director of Der Stuermer , Fischer, successor to Herr Fink. He told me-but I would like to mention first that the shares, together with the 5,000 marks, were confiscated from Herr Streicher.
HERRWERTH: The then Director Fischer told me that on that same day he had received a phone call from the trustee association, and that the trustee association had reported to Director Fischer that they had transferred to the account of Der Stuermer the 5,000 marks which Streicher at that time had advanced for the purchase of the shares.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Marx, do you not think he is going into rather too much detail about this?
DR. MARX: Yes.
HERRWERTH: Yes, I will make it shorter. The man from the trustee association said that the 5,000 marks were released because the innocence of Streicher had been proved in this matter.
DR. MARX: You witnessed the Supreme Party Court session at that time?
HERRWERTH: Yes.
DR. MARX: What did Herr Fink say at that time? Did he not accuse himself again of having made false statements?
HERRWERTH: I was not present when Herr Fink was questioned.
DR. MARX: Very well. Then I would like to ask you, were you present when the incident in Munich occurred at the Kuenstlerhaus Inn-with the man who accosted Streicher?
HERRWERTH: Yes.
DR. MARX: Can you give us a description of how that incident occurred?
HERRWERTH: Well, Herr Streicher left the inn after dinner. I cannot remember the exact words any more, but I am going to try to describe it as well as possible. Herr Streicher left the inn, and as he went out that man approached Herr Streicher in a-may I say-improper manner. Streicher continued on his way and was silent at first. He asked the people around him, myself also, whether we knew that man. Nobody knew him. Then Herr Streicher sent his son, Lothar, back into the room again to speak to the man and to ask him what the reason was for such behavior. Lothar Streicher came out and said that the man had behaved in just the same manner again.
DR. MARX: Will you please be more brief? You should only tell us how that incident occurred and what caused you and also Herr Streicher to use violence against the man.
HERRWERTH: You mean his behavior?
DR. MARX: Yes. What happened then?
HERRWERTH: Herr Streicher asked the landlord for a room, and in that room Streicher spoke to the man personally. There again the man made offensive remarks, and then it came to blows, first with Lothar Streicher. Now, as it happened, he was a strong man, and of course all of us helped to get him down.
DR. MARX: All right. I am through with the questioning of this witness, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: Do any of the Defense Counsel want to ask any questions? Do any of the Prosecution Counsel wish to cross-examine? Then the witness can retire. [The witness left the stand.]
DR. MARX: Then I should like to call the witness Wurzbacher, if he is available. Is he not? I do not know which one of the witnesses is still in the witness room. Is there anyone? Wurzbacher? Hiemer?
MARSHAL (Colonel Charles W. Mays): Frau Streicher is available.
THE PRESIDENT: Is not the witness Wurzbacher here?
MARSHAL: I will see, Sir. He was not here a while ago. He was not called for.
THE PRESIDENT: What other witnesses have you got, Dr. Marx?
DR. MARX: The wife of the defendant could be called as a witness now.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, let her be called then.
MARSHAL: The witness Strobel is available now.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr: Marx wants to call Frau Streicher.
DR. MARX: Excuse me, Mr. President. If it is rather difficult to call Frau Streicher, then the witness... [The witness Frau Streicher took the stand.]
THE PRESIDENT: Will you give me your full name?
FRAU ADELE STREICHER (Witness): Adele Streicher, born Tappe.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you repeat this oath after me: "I swear by God-the Almighty and Omniscient-that I will speak the pure truth-and will withhold and add nothing." [The witness repeated the oath in German.] You may sit down.
DR. MARX: Your maiden name is Tappe and you were born in Magdeburg?
FRAU STREICHER: Yes.
DR. MARX: Were you a member of the NSDAP or of the Frauenschaft?
FRAU STREICHER: No.
DR. MARX: When did you become Herr Streicher's secretary and for how long were you in that job?
FRAU STREICHER: On 7 June 1940, I became Julius Streicher's secretary and I remained in that job until the end of the war.
DR. MARX: And during that period, you were continuously on his farm?
FRAU STREICHER: Yes, I was always with him.
DR. MARX: Were you also in charge of all the correspondence for Herr Streicher?
FRAU STREICHER: Yes.
DR. MARX: What did that correspondence mainly consist of?
FRAU STREICHER: Mainly letters to his sons and to relatives.
DR. MARX: What were Streicher's activities during that period of 5 years?
FRAU STREICHER: Julius Streicher did mainly physical work; that is, agriculture and gardening, and from time to time he wrote articles for Der Stuermer .
DR. MARX: During these 5 years did he leave the farm at all or was he ever absent from the farm for any length of time?
FRAU STREICHER: During the first few years of his stay there Julius Streicher did not leave the farm at all; later, once in a while, he would pay a visit in the neighborhood. His longest absence did not comprise an entire day and never a single night.
DR. MARX: Did you know that it was prohibited for prominent Party members to visit Herr Streicher?
FRAU STREICHER: Yes, there was such a prohibition.
DR. MARX: How did you know that?
FRAU STREICHER: From conversations. Then, too, I myself remember, when Dr. Goebbels visited the farm, that Julius Streicher said to him, "Doctor, you dare to come here? Do you not know that it is prohibited by the Party chiefs to visit me?"
DR. MARX: When did the visits of Dr. Ley and Dr. Goebbels occur?
FRAU STREICHER: Dr. Ley came to the farm on 7 May 1944. The visit of Dr. Goebbels occurred on 4 June 1944.
DR. MARX: Would you please describe the character of these visits and what was the subject of the conversations?
FRAU STREICHER: Both visits were of a rather unofficial character. Dr. Ley wanted mainly to know how Julius Streicher was doing, personally. No political questions were raised. Ley said only, "Stretcher, the Fuehrer is waiting for you."
DR. MARX: And what did Streicher say to that?
FRAU STREICHER: Julius Streicher answered that he had become accustomed to his solitude, that he was happy as a farmer, and that Ley should tell the Fuehrer that he, Streicher, wanted nothing more. At the visit of Dr. Goebbels the subject of the conversation dealt mainly with Julius Streicher's dismissal from his office as Gauleiter, and Dr. Goebbels was of the opinion that Julius Streicher should return into the circle of old Party members; but he gave him the same answer, "Tell the Fuehrer I wish for nothing."
DR. MARX: Were you always present during these conversations?
FRAU STREICHER: Yes.
DR. MARX: Was not the Jewish question a subject of these conversations?
FRAU STREICHER: No, they never spoke about the Jewish question.
DR. MARX: Did they not speak about the happenings in the Eastern territories or in the concentration camps?
FRAU STREICHER: No, that never came up any more.
DR. MARX: Did not Streicher speak to you about the articles he intended to write for Der Stuermer , and did he not also speak about what he considered to be the solution of the Jewish problem?
FRAU STREICHER: From all conversations with Julius Streicher I could see with certainty that he never thought of the solution of the Jewish question in terms of violence, but hoped for the emigration of Jews from Europe and their settlement in territories outside Europe.
DR. MARX: Was Herr Streicher in correspondence with leading personalities of the Party or of the State?
FRAU STREICHER: No, neither personally nor by correspondence was there any such connection.
DR. MARX: I will now mention several names, of whom I want you to tell me whether they had any connection with him: Himmler, Heydrich, Bormann, or other leading men of the Police or the SS or the Gestapo.
FRAU STREICHER: No, I know nothing of any of these men. With the exception of one letter from Herr Himmler there was never any mail.
DR. MARX: What was the reason for that letter?
FRAU STREICHER: In that letter Herr Himmler complained about the fact that the French prisoners of war who were employed on our Pleikershof farm were treated too well.
DR. MARX: How was the treatment of the prisoners of war and the foreign civilian workers on the farm?
FRAU STREICHER: On the Pleikershof eight French prisoners of war, one Polish girl, and one Slovene girl were employed. They were all treated very well and very humanely. Each service for which Julius Streicher asked, each piece of work for which he asked personally, was especially rewarded with tobacco, pastry, fruit, or even money. Such cordial relations developed with some of the Frenchmen during the years that they were there that they assured us, with tears in their eyes at their departure, that they would visit Julius Streicher after the war with their families.
DR. MARX: Did Streicher not finally receive credible information about these mass executions in the East?
FRAU STREICHER: I believe he found out about it through Swiss newspapers in 1944. We were never informed about it officially.
DR. MARX: But it is asserted that he already had knowledge before that.
FRAU STREICHER: No.
DR. MARX: You do not know anything about it?
FRAU STREICHER: I only know about the Swiss newspapers.
DR. MARX: Very well. You once brought up the subject, in a conversation, that in Magdeburg, from the 9 to 10 November 1938, you witnessed the demonstration against the Jews and that you were revolted by it. Is that true?
FRAU STREICHER: Yes, I spoke about it and said that I was shocked at this action. Julius Streicher got very excited during that conversation and said, "Such nonsense occurred in Nuremberg also. That is not anti-Semitism; that is just great stupidity."
DR. MARX: Is it correct that Herr Streicher was hardly interested in the financial affairs of the publishing firm and left these things to the manager?