dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
GEN. RUDENKO: Well, there is no use to speak about it in detail. Now, let us go into the explanation of your personal participation and your personal role in the field of German propaganda. I should like you to state exactly what relations you had with Dr. Goebbels. Yesterday you spoke about it in detail, but here I should like you to state it briefly.
FRITZSCHE: The briefest formula is this: Personally, little relationship; officially, in the course of time, more and more relationship.
GEN. RUDENKO: Yes. Do you know the name of General Field Marshal Ferdinand Schorner?
FRITZSCHE: Yes, I know the name.
GEN. RUDENKO: I should like to read into the record an extract from his testimony. Mr. President, I am submitting this document. (USSR-472) as Exhibit USSR-472. [Turning to the defendant.] We are going to hand you this document in a minute. In order to facilitate the reading of it, the paragraphs which I am going to read here are underlined in red pencil. I am going to read the first excerpt; will you please follow the text-I quote: "Everybody, including myself, was aware that Fritzsche was not only a close associate of Goebbels, but was also a favorite of his. He gained Goebbels' sympathy by frequently copying him in his political activities and quoting Goebbels in his speeches. Goebbels, in his printed and verbal speeches, referred to the conclusions and prognoses made by Fritzsche as having the force of official declarations." Please tell me, Defendant Fritzsche, is that in accordance with reality?
FRITZSCHE: May I ask you which quotation you have been reading, 1, 2, or 3?
GEN. RUDENKO: I have already told you, it is quotation Number 1.
FRITZSCHE: According to my text, the first one says: "Everybody, including myself, was aware that Fritzsche was not only a close associate of Goebbels, but was also a favorite of his."
GEN. RUDENKO: Yes, that is quite correct. That is exactly what I quoted. I am asking you, is that in accordance with reality?
FRITZSCHE: I should, not have expressed it like that, and I think it is a question of taste. This statement...
GEN. RUDENKO: I understand.
FRITZSCHE: Just a moment. I have something to add. The expression "close associate of Goebbels" is wrong, objectively seen, and "favorite"-well, I do not think so.
GEN. RUDENKO: Yes, very well. Let us go further. You enjoyed the complete confidence of Goebbels and you carried out your duties in the Ministry of Propaganda entrusted with fullest powers. Do you admit that?
FRITZSCHE: Absolutely.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. Thus, enjoying the confidence and disposing of full powers, in your utterances you fully mirrored the demands of the Hitler Government which were made tasks of German propaganda; is that correct?
FRITZSCHE: Yes, to the exact extent which I described yesterday.
GEN. RUDENKO: Now, I should like to read into the record some extracts from your testimony of 12 September 1945. I am submitting this document (USSR-474) as Exhibit USSR-474. I am going to read into the record Excerpt Number 1.
FRITZSCHE: May I have the document?
GEN. RUDENKO: Certainly, it win be handed to you immediately. Will you please follow my quotation of Excerpt Number 1. It is underlined in red pencil. I am reading: "During a long time I was one of the leaders of German propaganda." I skip a few lines and further read: "I must say that Goebbels valued me as a convinced National Socialist and a capable journalist so that I was considered his confidential aid in the German propaganda machine." Is that correct?
FRITZSCHE: Mr. Prosecutor, that is not correct. I know that I have signed this report but at the very moment when I signed it in Moscow I stated: "You can do what you like with that record. If you publish it, then nobody in Germany will believe it and no intelligent person in other countries either because this is not my language." I state that not a single one of the questions contained in this report was put to me in that same form and I go on to declare that not a single one of the answers in that record was given by me in that form and I signed it for reasons which I Will explain to you in detail if you want me to.
GEN. RUDENKO: You therefore do not confirm these statements?
FRITZSCHE: No, only the signature is true.
GEN. RUDENKO: All right, let us say only the signature is true. Well, we want to bear in mind that in this quotation which I just read and which you deny, it is said that Goebbels valued you as a National Socialist and a capable journalist and that therefore you were a trustworthy person in the German propaganda machine. This is the essence of the quotation; is that right? Do you deny this? Just a minute please. I am going to remind you. . .
FRITZSCHE: Yes, General, I admit that, I admit these facts.
GEN. RUDENKO: Well, then the quotation was correct, was it not?
FRITZSCHE: Yes.
GEN. RUDENKO: Well then, what else are we speaking about? That means you do corroborate this statement?
FRITZSCHE: I am talking about the record which has been put before me in its entirety.
GEN. RUDENKO: At present I am questioning you with particular reference to this quotation which I just read into the record. You are not going to deny it? You admit it?
FRITZSCHE: I will not confirm the quotation but I will confirm once more the contents which you have just summarized again.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. The sense is not different from the actual quotation, but results from it. I should like to remind you of an excerpt...
THE PRESIDENT: One moment. What is it you are saying, Defendant? Are you saying that you did not sign this document or that you did?
FRITZSCHE: Mr. President, I signed the document, although its contents did not correspond with my own statements.
THE PRESIDENT: Why did you do that?
FRITZSCHE: I gave that signature after very severe solitary confinement which had lasted for several months; and I wrote that signature because one of my fellow prisoners, with whom I came into contact once, had told me that once every month a court was pronouncing sentences based merely on such records and without interrogation; and I hoped that in this manner I would at least achieve being sentenced and thus terminate my confinement. So as not to be misunderstood I should like to emphasize that no force was used and that I was treated very humanely, even if my detention was very severe.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. Of course, you never thought, Defendant Fritzsche, that after all you had done you would be sent to a sanatorium? It is obvious that you had to land in a prison and a prison is always a prison. This was just an aside, however. I should like to ask you about the following: You stated that in 1945 you signed this because of a very strict regime to which you were subjected; very well-when you arrived in Nuremberg you were interrogated on 3 November 1945 here in Nuremberg by General Alexandrov; is that correct?
FRITZSCHE: Yes.
GEN. RUDENKO: So that is correct? Very well. I should like to remind you of some of your answers. You were put the following question-on 12 November 1945 questions were put to you and you replied. Do you remember these statements? You answered, "I have very often been interrogated and I do not know what statements and testimony are in question now." Thereupon, General Alexandrov submitted to you your testimony of 12 September and you answered him, I am fully aware of this document." You were asked, "I should like you to peruse this document. Do you remember these statements?" You said, "Of course, there is no doubt about it." And further: "Do you corroborate this document, which you perused and which was signed by you?" And you replied, "Of course." Do you remember these statements which you made in Nuremberg?
FRITZSCHE: In the statement which you have quoted, all those passages are missing where I stated again and again that the record was put before me complete and finished for the purpose of obtaining my signature. I wished to make 20 or 30 alterations. Some of them were granted but passages were missing wherein I said in Nuremberg that some of the answers in that protocol contained a certain amount of truth but that none of them actually do represent my own answers.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I should now like to remind you of an extract from your statement of 7 January 1946. Your Honors, this is Document 3469-PS. It is not in my book of documents as it was submitted by the Counsel for the Defense. I am going to quote from that document; it is a very short passage. [Turning to the defendant.] This is Paragraph 39 of your statement: "Once Goebbels tried to coerce me into submitting my texts for perusal. I refused this request and explained that usually I dictated a short resume of my speech immediately before my broadcast and consequently, so to say, improvised my speeches. He said it was all right but on condition that if he would wish it, I should at least speak on specific, given themes." Is that right?
FRITZSCHE: Yes.
GEN. RUDENKO: Does that not indicate the confidence Goebbels had in you? Is that not right?
FRITZSCHE: No doubt he had a great deal of confidence in me, and I did not deny it.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. Let us proceed. In this very same document, which I have just mentioned to you, that is to say, in your statement of 7 January 1946, in Paragraph 35 there is the following sentence-I think it was written by your own hand. It was in reply to some of the questions put by your counsel. You say, "More and more I became the only official authority in the Ministry in the field of radio communication." Is that right?
FRITZSCHE: Unfortunately I did not hear the end of your question but you have quoted the passage correctly and I have written it.
GEN. RUDENKO: So, it does correspond to facts?
FRITZSCHE: Yes, absolutely.
GEN. RUDENKO: Well, you therefore will admit that in the German propaganda machinery you occupied the most prominent position after Goebbels?
FRITZSCHE: No, my previous answer does not contain such a statement.
GEN. RUDENKO: I am asking you that now.
FRITZSCHE: I will admit that I had. a most influential position in German radio, of which I was the head. If you now put a new question, asking who held the second position in the entire set-up of propaganda after Dr. Goebbels, I will reply: Dr. Dietrich, the State Secretary, or Dr. Naumann, the . . .
GEN. RUDENKO: Excuse me just a minute, please. I did not say the second position; I only said the most influential position. Are you going to deny this?
FRITZSCHE: I have no objection to your use of the word "influential," but it does not change my answer.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well, "influential position," if you like. That is still stronger. Let us proceed, however. In the same statement of 7 January you wrote-it is contained in Paragraph 15: "During the entire period from 1933 to 1945 the task of the 'German Press Department' was the supervision of the local press and supplying it with directives... More than 2,300 German newspapers were thus supervised." And then: "In the execution of this task given to me by Dr. Goebbels, in accordance with instructions of the Ministry of Propaganda, my activity encompassed the entire news and information system of the German press and radio." Is that correct?
FRITZSCHE: I do not know whether you have quoted the last sentence correctly, but I have certainly fully recognized the first sentences. It is my affidavit Document 3469-PS.` That corresponds word for word with the truth.
GEN. RUDENKO: Quite correct. Please tell me this: You organized in the German Press Department, the head of which you were, the Schnelldienst, the so-called speed service, which supplied the German press with provocative material. Do you admit that?
FRITZSCHE: If you will eliminate the word "provocative" and replace it with the word "propaganda" material, then I will admit it.
GEN. RUDENKO: All right. The Tribunal will consider this. We are not going to argue about it. Now, the last question from this group of questions: Tell me, were your broadcasts on the radio, which were presented with "Hans Fritzsche Speaks," considered official Government broadcasts?
FRITZSCHE: I explained this subject to you yesterday. Actually, they were a private work of my own; but the private work, publicly audible, of a Ministerialdirektor of the Ministry of Propaganda and the head of the German radio system will, of course, be regarded as semi-official, though not fully official; and this fact I had to consider, and I did consider it.
GEN. RUDENKO: All right. Now, I should like again to revert to the testimony of Ferdinand Schorner, which I have already submitted to the Tribunal as Exhibit USSR-472. I should like to quote Paragraph Number 2. Do you find it, Defendant Fritzsche?
FRITZSCHE: Yes.
GEN. RUDENKO: I am going to read it into the record.
THE PRESIDENT: General Rudenko, the Tribunal would like to see the whole of this document, or at any rate would like to see the questions to which these are answers.
GEN. RUDENKO: Mr. President, this document has been submitted to you in full.
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, I see. You mean that what we have in English here are only the parts that have been translated into English?
GEN. RUDENKO: Yes, that is quite correct. I am doing to read into the record Extract Number 2: "I am fully aware that Fritzsche was a prominent collaborator of the Ministry of Propaganda and that he was extremely popular in National Socialist circles and among the German people. He gained great popularity, especially by his weekly war political radio commentaries on the international situation. I often heard Fritzsche's broadcasts in peacetime as well as during the war; and I perceived his broadcasts, which were filled with fanatical devotion to the Fuehrer, as directives from the Party and the Government." Do you agree with this evaluation?
FRITZSCHE: I cannot raise any objection to this quotation, but beyond that...
THE PRESIDENT: General Rudenko, is the document sworn?
GEN. RUDENKO: This document was put into official form in accordance with the processes which are in use in the Soviet Union.
THE PRESIDENT: Where was it taken?
GEN. RUDENKO: In Moscow.
THE PRESIDENT: The man who made the statement-was he free or was he in prison?
GEN. RUDENKO: He was at the time a prisoner of war.
THE PRESIDENT: Did the man who is alleged to have made the statement sign it?
GEN. RUDENKO: Of course, it was signed by him.
THE PRESIDENT: Go on.
GEN. RUDENKO: Thank you. And so you . ..
FRITZSCHE: May I add that it is known to me that on distant battle fronts or, for example, with German colonies abroad, my radio speeches were considered, shall we say, as a political compass.
GEN. RUDENKO: Yes, I understand. I should like to put to you another document which I will ask you to peruse. Your Honors, I am submitting as Exhibit USSR-471 the testimony of Hans Voss. Defendant Fritzsche, do you know this name, Vice Admiral Hans Voss?
FRITZSCHE: I know the name, but not the man personally.
DR. FRITZ: I apologize, Mr. President. It may be that the statement of General Field Marshal Schorner does not deserve too much attention, but at any rate I am unable to ascertain from the document the place where it was taken.
THE PRESIDENT: General Rudenko says that it was taken at Moscow.
DR. FRITZ: But the record, the protocol itself, does not show that; and then I have noticed also that the photostatic copy which I have here does not show the signature of the Field Marshal. It just says "signed." Later on in the right margin a handwritten signature has been affixed, but I do not know whether this document is admissible from a legal point of view.
THE PRESIDENT: You can see the original and compare it.
GEN. RUDENKO: I am speaking about the Document USSR-471, which is a written statement by Hans Voss. Please look at the Excerpt Number 1, which is underlined; I quote: "Fully devoted to Hitler and the National Socialist Party, Fritzsche rendered priceless services in helping to spread National Socialism throughout Germany." Is that in accordance with reality?
FRITZSCHE: Well, at least I will not object.
GEN. RUDENKO: In other words, you are in accord with it?
FRITZSCHE: As I told you, I do not object, but I do not want to say by that that I concur.
GEN. RUDENKO: On the other hand, you do not deny this?
FRITZSCHE: No, I say for the third time that I do not raise any objection.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I should now like to question you regarding your attitude toward the racial theory. You gave yesterday a detailed explanation in this connection to your counsel, so that I am going to put to you only two or three questions, and I should like you to reply briefly. Did you agree with this racial theory?
FRITZSCHE: Yes, and precisely to the extent which I described to you yesterday.
GEN. RUDENKO: All right. In a radio broadcast on 6 April 1940 you spoke about Poland. Your Honors, this is Document USSR-496. I am not going to read this document as I do not want to propagate the views contained in it, but I should like the defendant to peruse this document. Please will you look at Excerpt Number 1 of this document. It is underlined in red pencil. This refers to your evaluation of the Polish nation. I simply should like to ask you about this speech of yours.
FRITZSCHE: It is impossible for me to recognize a radio speech of mine when I see an extract of only 20 lines, considering that I have spoken about a thousand times, as I said yesterday. In that case, you will have to let me have the full speech so that I can recognize my line of thought at the time.
GEN. RUDENKO: Did you not examine the document? This is a full text of your utterance which took place on 6 February 1940 on radio station, Deutschland Sender.
FRITZSCHE: General there are 20 lines here. They begin with the words, "Considerable effort was necessary to..."
GEN. RUDENKO: That is enough, all right. There is no need in further quoting. That is the document to which I am referring. I am asking you, is that your speech?
FRITZSCHE: It is quite possible, but if you give me only 20 lines of that speech, I can only confirm that: At the time when I had seen the official German documents dealing with the atrocities committed against Germans in Poland I talked about that with great disgust on the radio, talked about what I saw in those documents.
THE PRESIDENT: Shall we adjourn now?
GEN. RUDENKO: All right, Mr. President.
DR. THOMA: I ask you to grant leave for Defendant Rosenberg to be absent from the Court this afternoon because I have an important conference to hold with him.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. [The Tribunal recessed until 1400 hours.] Afternoon Session
GEN. RUDENKO: Defendant Fritzsche, extracts from your speech dated 5 July 1941 will be handed to you. They concern the opposition which the German Fascist troops encountered while entering Soviet territory. My Lord, this Document Number 3064-PS has already been submitted by the Defense. Will you look at Paragraph 7, the last paragraph? I do not intend to read it.
FRITZSCHE: Yes, I have noted it.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. Do you admit having used those very expressions?
FRITZSCHE: Yes, I admit that and I should like to emphasize, without quoting it, in what connection this statement was made.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I merely want to ask you the following: When, in your speeches you insult the Polish and Russian peoples by calling them "subhumans" do you not consider that these are expressions of misanthropic theories?
FRITZSCHE: Mr. Prosecutor, I should like to state that I never called the Russian people or the-Polish people subhumans.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I do not intend to argue with you; the documents speak for themselves. I would like to turn again to the statement of Hans Voss. This is Document USSR-471. It has already been submitted. Will you pay attention to Excerpt Number 2? It is underlined. It is just a short excerpt, and I will read it: ". . . and he"-Fritzsche-"understood how to influence the German mind when he tried to convince them that they, the Germans, were the superior race and therefore had to rule over other peoples as their slaves." Does that agree with the facts?
FRITZSCHE: No, it does not agree with the facts; rather, it contradicts the facts in all points.
GEN. RUDENKO: Let us say it contradicts your assertions. Very well, I will put another question to you. Do you know the name Lieutenant General Rainer Stahel, who was the former commander of the city of Warsaw?
FRITZSCHE: I am not familiar with that name.
GEN. RUDENKO: You are not familiar with that name? Very well. You will be handed a document. Mr. President, this is Document USSR-473, and it is the testimony of Rainer Stahel, dated 15 September 1941. The passage is underlined in your copy. I will read the first excerpt: 'Goebbels and Fritzsche took every measure in order to popularize the racial theory among the Germans and to convince them that the Germans were a master race and that other peoples, as inferior races, must be subordinated to the German 'master race.' "In order to convince the Germans of this and to compel -them to believe in this theory, the Ministry of Propaganda, run by Goebbels and Fritzsche, made a large number of films before the war and during the war and published books, pamphlets, periodicals, and other literature in which the authors attempted to prove the 'superiority' of the Germans over other nations. "It can be said that as a result of the energetic activity of Goebbels and Fritzsche the racial theory gained a firm hold on the minds of large numbers of the German people. This contributed to the fact that during the- war the German soldiers and officers, having assimilated the teaching of the leaders of German propaganda, committed bestial crimes against peaceful populations." Tell me, did Rainer Stahel correctly describe the part played by you in the propagation- of racial theory?
FRITZSCHE: No, I should like to add that the level of this statement is even lower than that of the other statements submitted to me. I should be happy if just one of those people whose testimony has been submitted to me in this form, could appear here in person in order to testify as to the documentary basis of his statement.
GEN. RUDENKO: I believe that during the 6 months that the Trial has lasted, you have heard enough testimony. Well, let us go on.
FRITZSCHE: No, I have to make this observation: I have not been confronted with any testimony of witnesses dealing with the subject matter discussed here.
GET. RUDENKO: You remember, I hope, the testimony of the witness Hoess regarding the extermination of millions of persons. [There was no response.]
GEN. RUDENKO: I say that you, I hope, remember the testimony of Hoess, the commander of the concentration camp in Auschwitz, concerning the extermination of millions of people.
FRITZSCHE: I did not forget this testimony, and not for a minute did it escape my memory.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I merely wanted to remind you. I do not intend questioning you on this matter. I am passing on to questions connected with the propaganda regarding the preparation for aggressive war by Hitler Germany. In order to shorten the cross-examination, I shall quote a few of your own statements, dated 12 September 1945, which have already been submitted to the Tribunal as Exhibit USSR-474. Please look at the second excerpt. It is underlined.