dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
DR. MARTIN LOFFLER (Counsel for the SA): Perhaps the Prosecution can later discuss this question on the basis of their knowledge of the particulars of Anglo-Saxon and other foreign legal systems. This point seems of particular importance to me because -- if it is neglected -- there is the danger that the judges, particularly the Anglo-Saxon judges, will apply the political standards of their countries to German conditions. The sober political instinct that is characteristic of the citizens of England and America is nonexistent in the Germans. We are a politically immature people, credulous, and consequently especially susceptible to political misguidance. The Court should not overlook this dissimilarity when passing its judgment on the good faith of the individual members of the organizations. According to the impressions which the Defense of the SA has received to date from its visits to camps and from numerous letters, the majority of SA members are convinced that they did not belong to any criminal organization. Among other reasons are the following subjective ones: It was generally known and has been specifically stated in the Organization Book of the Party -- Document 1893-PS, Page 365 -- that only a person whose character was unobjectionable could join the SA. It is further stated verbatim, and I quote: "Unobjectionable reputation and no criminal record." The members of the SA maintain that they know of no case in which a gang of criminals or conspirators required in their statutes similar conditions for membership. Part of the essence of a conspiracy is the idea that its criminal aims be kept secret from its opponents. An organization of several millions is, by its very nature, not suited to carrying out a plot. The leaders of the SA emphasized in numerous addresses that they wanted to maintain peace under all circumstances. They pointed out that Germany would be rather a danger to European peace if she were without defense and arms in the heart of Europe and that being in a state of preparedness was the best guarantee for securing future peace in Europe.
DR. MARTIN LOFFLER (Counsel for the SA): The simple members point again and again to the fact that foreign powers gave diplomatic recognition to the leaders of National Socialism. They consider this fact not simply an act of "international courtesy" but are convinced that foreign governments would not have entered into relation with the German Government if that German Government had consisted of open criminals. I might mention a particularly characteristic example: the Indictment against the SA is substantiated by a number of documents. These are Documents 2822- and 2823-PS. According to these documents, as early as May 1933 Lieutenant Colonel Auleb, a deputy of the Reich War Ministry of that time, was detailed to the high command of the SA in order to assure liaison between the heads of the two organizations. But the whole affair is treated as strictly secret, and it is ordered that Auleb should wear the SA uniform for the purpose of "camouflage." How, I ask, should or could a simple SA member have known anything of such affairs? I have mentioned here only a few points put forward by SA members which, in the opinion of the Defense, do not constitute unfounded subterfuges, but which show that the majority of these people never thought of participating in a criminal conspiracy. Also the fifth criterion set up yesterday by the Prosecution to define a criminal organization the close connection between the main defendants and the SA -- is in the case of no organization so difficult to prove as in the case of the SA. This may, at first, sound surprising; of the main defendants here, six were high-ranking members of the SA. Nevertheless, a closer scrutiny shows that there were no close connections at all. Except for Goering, none of the main defendants ever exercised command authority over the entire SA. The rank which these main defendants had in the SA was an honorary rank; and, so to speak, merely decorative. Consequently, the Prosecution has mentioned only Goering's connection with the SA in its recent list of the criminal elements.
DR. MARTIN LOFFLER (Counsel for the SA): But even Goering's connection with the SA curiously enough is very slight and is actually confined to a period of three quarters of a year -- that is -- 9 months, namely, from February 1923 to 9 November 1923, that is to say, 23 years ago. Goering was never, as stated in Appendix A of the Indictment, ReichsFuehrer of the SA. That is an error. Rather, in February 1923 Goering was commissioned to take over the command OI the then existing Party group for the protection of meetings -- the so-called Sturmabteilung. Goering led the SA until the November Putsch of 9 November 1923. On that day his command power over the SA came to an end and was never revived. Later Goering was given by Hitler honorary command of the unit Feldherrnhalle. He was the honorary commander, not the active commander of this unit. I believe the difference between honorary and active command of a regiment is known in all states. I do not have to give any further explanation. Honorary command has a purely decorative significance. The task which the SA had to carry out under Goering in the year 1923 was the protection of meetings. Anyway, it cannot be charged that at that time the SA, in co-operation with Goering already planned the crimes stated in Article 6 of the Charter or that these aims could have been anticipated at that time in any tangible form. Neither can it be charged that Goering ever made use of the SA after 1923 for carrying out any criminal plan. The man who led the SA from 1930 to 1934, Ernst Rohm, was an embittered opponent of Goering's. After his death the SA was led by Victor Lutze from 1934 to 1943 and from 1943 until its dissolution, by Wilhelm Schepmann. According to Article 9, Paragraph 1, of the Charter, an organization can be declared criminal only in connection with any act of which a main defendant may be convicted. From a legal and factual point of view I have the gravest doubts as to whether the facts of the case in 1923, as described by me, are sufficient to comply with the requirements of the Charter as far as the SA is concerned.
DR. MARTIN LOFFLER (Counsel for the SA): This could be done only if the Tribunal had reason now to pass sentence on Goering's activity as leader of the SA group for protecting meetings 23 years ago, including the November Putsch, as a special crime. This, however, would be at variance with the fact that this entire action was settled with legal effect by the amnesty of the democratic Reich Government, whereby the matter was, at the time, disposed of in this fashion. May it please the Tribunal, if it is a fact in the case of any organization, then certainly it is a fact in the case of the SA, that its being listed among the criminal organizations is contrary to the real picture. Large circles abroad, particularly those who were forced to leave Germany in 1933, knew nothing of the complete change of structure which the SA underwent during the following years. The foreign countries heard at every Reichstag session the traditional song, "The SA Marches," while, as a matter of fact, the SA had long since lost all political influence and had been transformed en masse into an association with a huge membership, the very size of which rendered it harmless as far as conspiracy was concerned and which showed all the characteristics of the so-called German club-mindedness. I refer in full here to the statements made by Colonel Storey, himself, in his speech for the Prosecution. This is on Page 1546 of the Court's Record (Volume IV, Page 138). The organization through which the SA was then eliminated from political life was, as is well known, the SS, and this happened on the occasion of the so-called Rohm Putsch in 1934. That, indeed, the SA and SS always confronted each other like rival brothers is a fact which, in the interest of truth, should not remain unmentioned. For all these reasons the SA is judged on a completely different basis, even by German opponents of National Socialism; and this has already to contradictory results, the speedy elimination of which by the Prosecution or the Court would be highly desirable.
DR. MARTIN LOFFLER (Counsel for the SA): At this opportunity the following facts should be pointed out: The SA, up to the higher ranks, is not, as a matter of principle, subject to arrest, which is at variance with probably all the other organizations. The new denazification law which recently came into force after thorough consultation between German circles and the Military Government and which is now the law in force throughout the entire American Zone, regards all SA members of a rank lower than that of SturmFuehrer neither as active Nazis nor much less as criminals. According to the electoral procedure now in force in the American Zone of Occupation, which recently was the basis for elections in thousands of German communities under the directives of the Military Government, the ordinary SA members, insofar as they were not Party members, were not only permitted to vote, but were also eligible for election. The same people who are before the Court accused of serious crimes may at the same time, according to the law in force, be elected as community councillors, and, in fact, are being so elected. I talked personally about two weeks ago to an SA man and asked him whether, following the notice of the Court, he had reported here for interrogation. He declared that he saw no reason for doing that, because in the meantime he had been elected and approved as community councillor. The regulations of Law Number 30, regarding the application of the German community order of 20 December 1945, namely, Articles 36 and 37, which show that SA men are eligible for election, also confirm the fact, which is known in Germany, but apparently not in foreign countries, that an ordinary Party member had -- only by comparison, naturally -- a more active political position than the completely uninfluential SA member. Whoever was a Party member before 1937 cannot vote, and whoever at any time was a Party member cannot be elected.
DR. MARTIN LOFFLER (Counsel for the SA): A comparison of Party members, who are not indicted here, and SA members, who are indicted here, shows the following facts: If at the time of National Socialism one was politically incriminated or suspected one could, without difficulty, become an SA member but under no circumstances a Party member, because in regard to Party membership -- and even ordinary Party membership -- much higher political qualifications were required than in the case of SA members. There were certainly many SA members who joined this organization only to escape to some extent the persecution they had to expect because of their incriminating political record in the past. May it please the Tribunal, I have tried by means of these examples to show the extraordinary danger existing in the particular case of the SA, if all its members, including its millions of ordinary SA men, are legally declared criminal; by the Tribunal. I am sorry I cannot share the opinion expressed yesterday by Justice Jackson that the verdict sought from this Court would be a purely declaratory one with no penalties involved. On the contrary I know that hundreds and thousands of SA members, who were simple followers and were not even Party members, have been dismissed from their positions, and their future and their existence will depend on the verdict of this Court. A declaratory judgment of this Court is sufficient to make them outlaws and to exclude them from positions and professions in the future. Therefore the members of the SA are correct in pointing out that they are denied the right of judicial hearing. There is no direct evidence and no direct trial. A court does not decide the fate of lifeless creatures of the law or formal organizations that have long since ceased to exist; it passes judgment on living human beings, and no court should forego the opportunity of seeing in person those whom it is trying. A good judge is always a good psychologist and soon can tell what kind of person is on trial -- whether he is a criminal or somebody who has been deceived and misled.
DR. MARTIN LOFFLER (Counsel for the SA): No law on earth since time immemorial ever allowed the passing of judgment against an organization instead of against its single members. The laws and precedents quoted yesterday by the Prosecution regarding criminal gangs and conspiracy certainly recognize to a large extent the collective responsibility for acts of accomplices, but two requirements must be fulfilled there too: Firstly, the member must know that he is party to a criminal conspiracy or criminal association; secondly, the indictment is not directed against the conspiracy as such, and the conspiracy will not be judged, but the persons of the individual participants. It is the conviction of the Defense that the Charter did not intend to stand in contradiction to these legal principles of all states. The late President Roosevelt, whom Justice Jackson named the spiritual father of the Charter, has in his great speeches, particularly in those of 25 October 1941 and 7 October 1942, stated clearly that the leaders and instigators shall be called to account. Permit me, Mr. President, to read two sentences from the speech by President Roosevelt taken from the official collection, Speeches and Essays by President Roosevelt , published on order of the government of the United States. I quote from the speech of 25 October 1941: "Civilized peoples long ago adopted the basic principle that no man should be punished for the deed of another." The second quotation is from the speech of President Roosevelt on 7 October 1942, and I quote: "The number of persons eventually found guilty will undoubtedly be extremely small compared to the total enemy populations. It is not the intention of this Government or of the Governments associated with us to resort to mass reprisals.
DR. MARTIN LOFFLER (Counsel for the SA): It is our intention that lust and sure punishment shall be meted out to the ringleaders responsible for the organized murder of thousands of innocent persons and the commission of atrocities which have violated every tenet of the Christian faith." In addition to these fundamental objections to such a separation of the proceedings there is also an important technical objection. If the Tribunal passes a declaratory judgment against the organizations, as requested, all these millions of members of the organizations will automatically become outlaws pending the definite legal decision in the subsequent trials. Until that date every individual is under serious suspicion of being a criminal, since it is questionable whether he will succeed in exonerating himself in the subsequent trial. Since, however, an individual person, without such exoneration will probably not be able to return to his profession -- and will also be excluded from the ranks of honorable citizens until he is exonerated -- the right to have such a subsequent trial should not be denied to him. I believe that Justice Jackson will agree with me in this. But if, as desired by the Prosecution, 7 million members of organizations, according to a conservative estimate, are affected by the declaratory judgment of the Tribunal and thus temporarily become outlaws, then millions of subsequent trials will have to take place. We shall have to assume that in the course of 1 year, perhaps 100,000 trials can be completed. I believe that this is a very optimistic estimate, as our German courts will not be able to participate; it is well known that they are completely overworked since they have now only a small portion of their former personnel. Of these millions of cases, the courts will probably have to deal first with those of the most criminal nature. The accused, whose existence is at stake, will defend themselves during the subsequent trials with all legal means at their disposal.
DR. MARTIN LOFFLER (Counsel for the SA): There is the danger that the really innocent people will have to wait for many years, even for decades, before they will have an opportunity to rehabilitate themselves through a process of exoneration. I believe that it would have been possible to find some sort of solution. For instance, if the Control Council had passed a law to the effect that, since there is the suspicion that offenses and crimes against peace and humanity have been committed with the aid of these organizations, the courts have the right and the duty to try those of whom it can be proved that they participated in these crimes as principals or accessories in some way or other -- if such a formula could be found, then I believe that both the Prosecution and the Defense would consider that a just solution. The effect would be limited to those who are actually guilty. The Defense objects in no way to the punishment of those who are actually guilty, provided that their guilt is determined in regular unobjectionable proceedings. Should the Court, however, adhere to a verdict against the organizations, as requested by the Prosecution, then I request for all the reasons adduced, arising as they do from the presentation of the Prosecution and from the impressions made by those applications which have been filed, that judgment not be passed against the entire SA. The point of view brought forward by Justice Jackson in the case of the other organizations, namely, that in the face of so many murders and atrocities the individual members of an organization can no longer be determined as perpetrators, this point of view, noteworthy as it is, does not apply to the SA. The few excesses which, according to the presentation of the Prosecution, took place here, happened in Germany in public. The perpetrators are known. Some regional courts have already opened proceedings of this kind. I have heard, for example, that the city of Bamberg has opened proceedings against the destroyers of the synagogue there and against the perpetrators of the action of 10 and 11 November 1938.
DR. MARTIN LOFFLER (Counsel for the SA): But should the Tribunal be of the opinion that judgment is nevertheless to be passed against the SA as an organization, then I ask the Tribunal as far as possible to make use of the right to provide certain limitations in regard to periods of time and categories of members, as both the Prosecution and the Defense agree that the Tribunal has the power to make such limitations. Very important distinctions are to be made here, first as to the different periods of time. The SA men who joined the SA after the seizure of power in 1933 joined an organization that on its face bore the stamp of approval by the state. Admittedly not even a state authority can declare crimes against humanity legal; but when weighing the degree of guilt and the severity of the penalty it is, nevertheless, of considerable importance whether the perpetrator acted outside the bounds of the laws in force and committed offenses against the positive law, or whether his acts, although they may offend a higher moral order, are not contrary to the laws of his country. Therefore an exemption should be made at any rate of all those SA members who joined after 1933, and who can be proved to have had no part in the events of 10 and 11 November 1938. In regard to categories, I urgently request, in the interest of justice, a double limitation: 1. Simple SA members up to the rank of SturmFuehrer should be exempted at any rate and, if possible, very soon. I mentioned previously why this appears imperative in the interests of justice, at least in the American Zone. Perhaps -- and I should welcome this tremendously -- Justice Jackson would have the kindness to pay special attention to this matter once more. The idea of such limitation is also supported by the fact that it would considerably reduce the numbers by eliminating the simple followers; and in this way the technical difficulties, which seem almost insurmountable, would also be considerably simplified. 2.
DR. MARTIN LOFFLER (Counsel for the SA): It was gratifying that the Prosecution yesterday agreed to separate proceedings against the SA Wehrmannschaften, the bearers of the SA Sports Badge, and the members of the SA Reserve -- or rather, to exempt them altogether. In the interest of equality and justice as recognized by the law and by this Tribunal, it would be fair to separate from the SA all those special sport units which had only a loose organizational connection with the SA. These are the Navy SA (Marine-SA) and the Cavalry SA (Reiter-SA). There are a number of applications before the Court, and it is well known in Germany to everybody involved that these particular units were exclusively devoted to their respective sports, namely, sailing and rowing on the one hand, and horsemanship and holding of tournaments on the other hand. When in 1933 the Party came to power, it attempted to take charge of all sport activities in Germany. Consequently, the various navy clubs and the so-called country riding clubs became affiliated with the Party, but both clubs had hardly anything to do with the political SA, even after their regrouping. Only their chiefs were, according to the organizational system, subordinate to the SA. They are very well suited for separate proceedings because they constituted a completely closed group within the SA. None of the main defendants present here was ever a member of one of these sport groups. Members of the Cavalry SA feel that they are at a particular disadvantage because the Prosecution has not indicted the NS Kraftfahrkorps (National Socialist Motor Corps) and the NS Fliegerkorps (National Socialist Flier Corps), which is perfectly justified, since it is known that they were by nature sport organizations. The NS Kraftfahrkorps and the NS Fliegerkorps were, however, until the year 1934, exactly like the Reiterkorps, sport divisions of the SA. The NS Kraftfahrkorps succeeded in gaining organizational independence since 1934 or 1935, due to the political influence of its leader Huhnlein. The NS Fliegerkorps also succeeded in doing so.
DR. MARTIN LOFFLER (Counsel for the SA): The NS Reiterkorps, however, did not have such influence and merely succeeded in 1936 in being recognized as an independent NS Reiterkorps; but it still remained formally connected through its leadership with the SA, since Litzmann, the Chief of the Reiterkorps, was subordinate to the Chief of the SA. For this purely formal reason about 100,000 farmers and farmhands who enjoyed education in horsemanship through these country riding clubs are indicted here. It can be proved that they never took part in politics or in any activities against Jews or people of other beliefs. Likewise a pursuit of militaristic aims is out of question in the case of the Cavalry SA. Already after the First World War it was evident that the horse had no further role in war. This charge would rather be in point as far as the Kraftfahrkorps and the Fliegerkorps are concerned. The Prosecution stated correctly that these organizations whereby nature predominantly sport organizations. For this reason I should be grateful to the Prosecution if they would once more examine the cases I have mentioned in order to find out whether or not the same conditions exist in this case as in the case of the SA Reserve and the armed SA units. As the last group I mention the SA university units (SA Hochschulsturme), because they were almost without exception obligatory organizations for those students who would not have been admitted to the state examinations without a record of activity in such organizations. The same thing applies to the SA health units (SA Sanitatssturme), which represented an obligatory activity for many physicians who were applying for positions. I should like to correct myself on one point, because it has been called to my attention that I wanted to set a time limit for those SA members joining after 1933. I should have said, "after 30 January 1933," the day of the seizure of power. In conclusion, I should like to say a few words about the hearing of SA members. Most of the members of the SA are free.