dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
LAHOUSEN: I was present at that meeting. General political questions regarding Poland and the Ukrainians in Poland were discussed. I do not know anything more about this meeting, which was the first. After that there was another meeting in the coach of Keitel, who was then Chief of the OKW, and in the course of this meeting Keitel summarized and commented on the general political directives issued by Ribbentrop. He then mentioned several possible solutions for the handling of the Polish problem from the point of view of foreign policy-this can happen, or something else can happen; it is quite possible. In this connection he said: "You, Canaris, have to promote an uprising with the aid of the Ukrainian organizations which are working with you and which have the same objectives, namely, the Poles and the Jews." And then a third discussion, or rather, a very brief remark at the end of a very short conversation between the Foreign Minister Ribbentrop and Canaris was made in connection with this subject, after the intention had been made quite clear. It was about how the uprising was to be carried out and what was to happen. I remember this so well, because he demanded that the farm houses must burn. Canaris discussed the matter with me in detail later on and referred to this remark. That is what happened, as I have described it. This was the sequence: Directives from the High Command to Keitel; then passed on by Keitel to Canaris at this meeting; then repeated to Canaris in the form of a remark which I remember so well because it contained the words about farm houses in flames, which is rather an unusual thing to say.
THE PRESIDENT: It would assist the Tribunal if one question at a time were asked and if the witnesses would answer "yes" or "no" to the question asked, and explain, if they must, afterwards. But questions and answers should be put as shortly as possible and only one question should be asked at a time.
DR. SAUTER: Now, witness, something else has struck me.
THE PRESIDENT: You heard what I said did you? Do you understand it?
DR. SAUTER: [Continuing.] Yesterday you said that these remarks of Ribbentrop are not in the diary, if I understood you correctly.
LAHOUSEN: No, this is not from the diary but has a connection with Canaris' diary, by means of which I can make this remark.
DR. SAUTER: You said yesterday that this remark struck you as being rather surprising.
LAHOUSEN: Yes.
DR. SAUTER: And today you said that General Blaskowitz also made some striking statements. You also mentioned, however, that these statements of Blaskowitz were not entered in the diary.
LAHOUSEN: No.
DR. SAUTER: Now, it occurs to me-and I would like you to answer this question: Why, if this remark of the Defendant Ribbentrop surprised you, was it not entered in the diary?
LAHOUSEN: Regarding Blaskowitz, I have to say-or rather- repeat the following: I said that I did not hear the Blaskowitz matter mentioned in this connection during the meeting, and I cannot assume that this subject came up concurrently, otherwise it would have been entered in these notes. It may be, of course, that the Blaskowitz matter was discussed at a time when I was not there. I have only put down what I heard or what Canaris told me to enter in the record.
DR. SAUTER: But did you yourself hear that from Ribbentrop?
LAHOUSEN: Yes, but the substance was not altered. Whether one speaks of extermination, elimination, or the burning of farms, they all amount to terroristic measures.
DR. SAUTER: Did Von Ribbentrop really talk of killing Jews? Are you sure you remember that?
LAHOUSEN: Yes, I definitely remember that, because Canaris talked not only to me, but also to others in Vienna about this matter and called me time and again as a witness.
DR. SAUTER: You heard that too?
LAHOUSEN: That did not settle the matter, but these words of Ribbentrop's were frequently discussed.
DR. SAUTER: Witness, something else. You have told us about murderous designs on which you or your department or other officers were employed or which you were charged to carry out. Did you report these to any police station as the law required? May I point out that according to German law failure to report intended crimes is punishable with imprisonment or in serious cases with death.
LAHOUSEN: Well, when you talk about German law, I cannot follow you. I am not a lawyer, but just an ordinary man. DR. SAUTER; As far as I know, that is also punishable according to Austrian law.
LAHOUSEN: At that time Austrian law, as far as I know, was no longer valid.
DR. SAUTER: In other words, you never reported the intended crime, either as a private person or as an official?
LAHOUSEN: I should have had to make a great many reports -about 100,000 projected murders, of which I knew and could not help but know. You can read about them in the records-and about shootings and the like-of which of necessity I had knowledge, whether I wanted to know or not, because, unfortunately, I was in the midst of it.
DR. SAUTER: It is not a matter of shootings which had taken place and could no longer be prevented, but rather a matter of intended murder at a time when perhaps it could have been prevented.
LAHOUSEN: I can only answer: Why did the person who received this order at first hand not do the same thing? Why did he not denounce Hitler for instance?
DR. SAUTER: You, as a general of the German Wehrmacht, should have asked Hitler...
LAHOUSEN: I am sorry, you overestimate my rank, I had only been a general in the German Wehrmacht since the first of January 1945, that is, only for 4 months. At that time I was lieutenant colonel and later colonel of the General Staff, not in the General Staff.
DR. SAUTER: But in 1938, immediately after Hitler's attack on Austria, you at once made a request to be taken into the German Wehrmacht by Hitler.
LAHOUSEN: I did not make a request, and I did not have to do this. Wherever I was in the service, I was known for my special services. I was not a stranger. With the knowledge of the Austrian Government and also, in a restricted sense, with the knowledge of the German authorities (that is, of certain persons) I was working for the Austrian Government in a matter which exclusively concerned things outside the scope of Austrian internal policy. I co-operated with the Wehrmacht, as well as with the Italian and Hungarian Governments with the knowledge of the Austrian Government and the competent authorities. There were matters of politics which were not my domain.
DR. SAUTER: But I believe, Witness, your memory deceives you, because immediately after Hitler's attack on Austria, you called on the General Staff in Berlin and there you tried to get a commission in the German Wehrmacht, and you now deny this. You also filled in and signed a questionnaire, in which you declared your complete allegiance to the Greater German Reich and to Adolf Hitler; and shortly afterwards you took the oath of allegiance to Adolf Hitler.
LAHOUSEN: Yes, of course, I did it just as everybody else who was in the position of being transferred from one office and capacity to another.
DR. SAUTER: Before, you said you did not apply for this appointment, and I have information to the contrary: That you, in the company of two or three other officers were the first to go to Berlin with the sole purpose of asking the Chief of the German General Staff Beck to take you into the German Army.
LAHOUSEN: I am very glad that you mention this subject, because it allows me to make my position perfectly clear. It was not necessary for me to make an application for my future position in the German Wehrmacht. I was known because of my military activities, just as any military attache is known in the country where he is accredited. Moreover, I can easily explain why my rise in office was so rapid. I have said that my activities and my co-operation with the Austrian Military Intelligence Service, which were not determined by me but by my superior Austrian office, were at that time directed against the neighboring country of Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia was the country that was next on the list after Austria. Therefore, it was natural that my later chief, Canaris, who knew me from my former position, was very interested in having me promoted in his department. He put in a word for me, and so did Colonel General Beck, whom I was visiting. Other people also know this; and I have now told everything that General Beck told me at that time.
DR. SAUTER: Then it is true, you did go to Berlin and apply to be transferred into the German Wehrmacht, which you at first denied?
LAHOUSEN: No, that is not true, I did not apply. Others made the request. I can even say that I did not go there: I flew there. Canaris, who knew me not only in my military capacity but also in regard to my personal attitude (just as Marogna had known me and just as-Colonel General Beck, who was informed about me by Canaris), made the request for me. I myself did not apply, but others applied for me, for reasons which only later became clear to me, because they knew my personal attitude, just as my Austrian comrades-they were necessarily few-knew about this and about me. That is how things stood.
DR. SAUTER: I have no other questions to ask this witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Before the cross-examination I wish to announce that there will be no public session of the Tribunal this afternoon.
DR. OTTO STAHMER (Counsel for Defendant Goering): I am counsel for the Defendant Goering, and I would like to address a few questions to the witness. Witness, if I understood you correctly, you said yesterday that it was Canaris' personal conviction that his failure to prevent the attack on Poland would mean the end of Germany and a great misfortune for us. A triumph of the system would mean an even greater disaster, and it was the purpose of General Canaris to prevent this. Did I understand you correctly?
LAHOUSEN: Yes, except for one point: Not that he had not been successful in preventing it, but that it was not possible to prevent it. Canaris had no way of knowing this...
DR. STAHMER: Is it known to you that Admiral Canaris, in the first years of the war, had very active sabotage organizations behind the enemy front and that he personally worked very hard for these organizations?
LAHOUSEN: Naturally I knew about that, and I have fully informed the American authorities who were interested in this subject.
DR. STAHMER: But how is that possible? This would not be in conformity with his inner political beliefs.
LAHOUSEN: This is explained by the fact that in the circle in which he was active he could never say what he really thought, and thousands of others could not do so either-what I said is a truth without saying. The essential thing is not what he said, or what he had to say in order to follow a purpose; but what he did and how he did it. This I know and others know it, too.
DR. STAHMER: This is not a question of what he said, but of what he actually did. He not only proposed such measures, but also applied himself to their execution-is that true?
LAHOUSEN: Ostensibly he had, of course, to remain within the limits of his office, in order to keep his position. That was the important thing, that he should remain in this position, to prevent in 1939 the thing that actually happened in 1944: that Himmler should take things in hand. I place before you these two men, one against the other: Canaris and Himmler-and I think I need hardly tell you what Canaris was striving for when he (Canaris) took part-ostensibly took part in these activities.
DR. STAHMER: You mentioned the name of Himmler, in this connection, I would like to ask the following question: Is it known to you that Admiral Canaris, during the first years of the war, laid great stress on his good relations with the SS and the necessity for close co-operation with the SS, so much so, that the Defendant Goering had to advise him to be more independent of the SS in his military functions?
THE PRESIDENT: You are going too quickly and I do not think you are observing what I said just now, that it will help the Tribunal if you will ask one question at a time.
DR. STAHMER: I will put my question briefly; did the witness know that Admiral Canaris, during the first years of the war, had good connections with the SS and recognized the necessity for close co-operation with the formation, and never failed to stress this?
LAHOUSEN: Yes, this is known to me. I also know why.
DR. STAHMER: And why?
LAHOUSEN: So that he might be in a position to see and to know and keep himself informed of everything these people were doing, and be able to intervene wherever and whenever possible.
DR. STAHMER: Was it the duty of your organization, or the duty of Canaris' department to pass on important enemy intelligence to the military leadership in good time?
LAHOUSEN: I do not understand what the office of Canaris has to do with this?
DR. STAHMER: Your section of the office of Canaris?
LAHOUSEN: Yes, of course, the Department I.
DR. STAHMER: Now, according to my information, your office did not pass on to the military departments concerned information of the Anglo-American landing in North Africa. Is that true?
LAHOUSEN: I do not know. Please do not make me responsible for the department. This is a question which could easily be answered by Colonel Pieckenbrock, but not by me.
DR. STAHMER: Regarding the Case "Rowehl," you said yesterday that a colonel of the Air Force, Rowehl, had formed a special squadron, which had the tasks of making reconnaissance flights over Poland, England, and the southeast sector prior to the Polish campaign. Is that true?
LAHOUSEN: Yes.
DR STAHMER: You also said that Colonel Rowehl went to see Admiral Canaris to report on the results of these flights and to submit photographs. Is that true?
LAHOUSEN: Yes. How should I have known about it otherwise? I did not invent it.
DR. STAHMER: I did not say that. How did Colonel Rowehl come to report to Admiral Canaris about this?
LAHOUSEN: I believe I mentioned yesterday, that this was a function of the Amt Ausland Abwehr, Abteilung I.
DR. STAHMER: Have you yourself seen the photographs that were taken over England?
LAHOUSEN: Yes, I have seen them.
DR. STAHMER: When and where were these pictures shown to you?
LAHOUSEN: In the office of Canaris they were shown to me. I had nothing to do with them in an official way. I happened to be present at the time. I was interested in seeing what was going on.
DR. STAHMER: What did these photographs show?
LAHOUSEN: I have forgotten the details. They were photographs taken from airplanes.
DR. STAHMER: The photographs were not shown to you officially?
LAHOUSEN: No, the photographs were not shown to me officially, I was merely an interested spectator on this occasion, as I have just told you.
DR. STAHMER: Did Rowehl give any written reports about these flights to the Amt?
LAHOUSEN: I do not know.
DR. STAHMER: You do not know? You also said that Rowehl's squadron made flights from Budapest?
LAHOUSEN: Yes.
DR. STAHMER: Do you know that from your own experience or from some other information?
LAHOUSEN: I know it through personal investigation. The date is entered in the War Diary kept by the section. At that time I was in Budapest, and I was asked to attend the conferring of a citation in Budapest.
DR. STAHMER: That was before the Polish campaign?
LAHOUSEN: Yes.
DR. STAHMER: And why were these flights carried out from Budapest?
LAHOUSEN: I do not know. I said that yesterday. A gentleman of the Air Force would have to answer that.
DR. RUDOLF DIX (Counsel for Defendant Schacht): Witness, do you know Captain Struenck from the Abwehr?
LAHOUSEN: I would like you to tell me something more than the name. The name alone does not mean anything to me. Give me a few points that will refresh my memory.
DR. DIX: He is a lawyer who was a reserve officer with the Abwehr. I do not know in which department, but I would say it was in the department of Pieckenbrock. However, if you do not know him I will not question you any further.
LAHOUSEN: If he was with Pieckenbrock I do not know him. I knew a few. Is Struenck still alive?
DR. DIX: No, he is no longer living.
LAHOUSEN: Was he executed?
DR. DIX: He suffered the same death as Canaris and Oster. For the information of the Court, I should like to add that I asked this question because I named Struenck as a witness and the Court has admitted him as such. I wish to take this opportunity-but if you do not know him I will not continue questioning you.
LAHOUSEN: When I asked whether he is still alive, I seemed to recall that this man, together with others whom I knew very well, might have been killed, but I cannot be more definite on this point.
DR. HEINZ FRITZ (Counsel for Defendant Fritzsche): I would like to ask the witness a few questions. Witness, do you know that the Defendant Fritzsche, when in May 1942 he was transferred to the 6th Army as a soldier and there heard for the first time of the existence of an order for executions, recommended to the Commander-in-Chief of the 6th Army, Paulus, that he should have this order suspended within the jurisdiction of his army and have this decision made known by leaflets to be dropped over the Russian front?
THE PRESIDENT: Be careful only to ask one question at a time. You have just asked three or four questions at once.
DR. FRITZ: Yes, Sir. Is it known to you that Fritzsche gave Paulus the advice to rescind the order for his army sector?
LAHOUSEN: That order had already been given to his army. Will you kindly give me the approximate date?
DR. FRITZ: That was during the Russian campaign, as I mentioned yesterday. Most of these things occurred in May 1942.
LAHOUSEN: No. I do not know anything about this in connection with Fritzsche. In connection with the name Reichenau, which was mentioned before, I do remember a conversation between Reichenau and Canaris at which I was present. It made a great impression on me. During this conversation, and in this circle, where there were several other gentlemen present, Reichenau held quite different ideas and judged things quite differently from what I had expected of him. Apart from that, I do not know anything about this particular question.
DR. FRITZ: Also nothing concerning the fact that Paulus had rescinded the order within the sector of his army?
LAHOUSEN: No, not in connection with the name Paulus, but in general I believe, as I also stated yesterday, that several army commanders, whose names are no longer in my memory today, or whose names have been recorded, were mentioned by me.
DR. KURT KAUFFMANN (Counsel for Defendant Kaltenbrunner): Do you know Mr. Kaltenbrunner?
LAHOUSEN: Kaltenbrunner? I met Kaltenbrunner only once in my life, and that was on a day that will always remain in my memory. It was also the first meeting between Canaris and Kaltenbrunner. It took place in Munich in the Regina Hotel, and it was on the day when two young people, a student and his sister, were arrested and executed. They had distributed leaflets in the auditorium of the University of Munich. I read the contents of the leaflets, and I remember, among other things, that they contained an appeal to the Wehrmacht. I can easily reconstruct that day. It was the first and last time that I saw Kaltenbrunner, with whose name I was familiar. Of course, Kaltenbrunner mentioned this subject to Canaris, who was completely shattered because of what had happened that day and was still under the painful impression-and thank God there are still witnesses available who can testify to this. When discussing the matter Kaltenbrunner was very much to the point, but at the same time he was quite cynical about it. That is the only thing I can tell you about this matter.
DR. KAUFFMANN: Kaltenbrunner claims that Himmler retained full executive powers for himself, while he was only in charge of the intelligence service. Is this borne out by the conversation that you just mentioned?
LAHOUSEN: I would like you to know what bearing that has on the Kaltenbrunner-Himmler matter-the struggle for power which was taking place in the SS. I have merely described this event. I can give you the names of the people present, who like myself were very much impressed for the reasons which I have mentioned.
HERR GEORG BOEHM (Counsel for the SA): You were asked yesterday whether the orders regarding the treatment of Soviet prisoners of war were known to the leaders of the SA and other organizations, and your answer was that these orders must have been known to them. I would now like to ask you who these leaders were at the time and what were their names?
LAHOUSEN: Who they were and what their names were, I do not know. I also stated explicitly yesterday why I said so. They must have been known to them and to a large circle through the execution of these orders, and, of course, through the return of the wounded. The German people must have learned about them.
HERR BOEHM: In other words, it was only an opinion of yours, but in no way a fact based on personal observation?
LAHOUSEN: No, it was not. I personally never had anything to do with any SA leader. I never had anything to do with them, and I do not think any one of them knows me well.
HERR BOEHM: Could you make a statement on this, that is whether the orders which were mentioned yesterday were given to the formations of the SA?
LAHOUSEN: Would you kindly formulate that question again?
HERR BOEHM: Could you make another statement as to whether the contents of these orders, which were discussed yesterday, were sent to the formations of the SA through official channels?
LAHOUSEN: No, not through official channels, but in the way I have previously indicated; in other words, members of the SA who were also in the Wehrmacht could see actually what happened out there, and when they came back they spoke about it, the same as anyone else. It was only in this connection . . .
HERR BOEHM: Is it known to you whether members of the SA had anything at all to do with the handling of prisoners of war?
LAHOUSEN: When members of the SA were in the Wehrmacht, yes.
HERR BOEHM: Did you make any personal observations in this connection?
LAHOUSEN: No, I never said that. I said I had already talked about the SA.
HERR BOEHM: I asked you which leaders of the SA formations knew about them, and you answered that they should have known about them.
LAHOUSEN: I said the leaders of these organizations came to know about them in this way.
HERR BOEHM: And today I ask you whether the individual formations of the SA had received these orders.
LAHOUSEN: I can only repeat what I said yesterday, and I think I was very clear on the subject, in other words, how these orders were issued. I myself did not read these orders, but I know the effects they had.
HERR BOEHM: I can imagine myself how this happened, but I asked you whether you know anything about how these orders reached the SA?
LAHOUSEN: No.
HERR BOEHM: You do not know? Do you know anything from your own personal observations about members of the SA being employed for the supervision of prisoner-of-war camps?
LAHOUSEN: Yes, because from my personal observations, once when I was on my way to the Army Group North, I caught an SA man who was kicking a Russian prisoner of war and I pulled him up about it. I think that is mentioned somewhere in my records, and also an episode about an Arbeitsdienst man.
HERR BOEHM: Did you report any of these incidents through the proper channels? Did you see to it that the leaders of this organization were informed about them?
LAHOUSEN: I reported it to my superior officer, or it was mentioned in my report on my visit either orally or in writing. There were discussions on this and similar incidents.
HERR BOEHM: Have you got anything in your records?
LAHOUSEN: Yes.
HERR BOEHM: Will you please submit it?
LAHOUSEN: I am looking it up. This is about the Arbeitsdienst man, this document.
HERR BOEHM: It is not about the SA man?
LAHOUSEN: No.
HERR BOEHM: Then you cannot submit anything in answer to my question?
LAHOUSEN: I do not have it here. I would have to look it up.
HERR BOEHM: Do you think you might find some records?
LAHOUSEN: I would have to have an opportunity of going through the whole of the material which is in the hands of the American authorities to find this one.