dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You frequently attended conferences on behalf of Goering?
MILCH: On behalf of Goering, very rarely.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You deny that you attended conferences on behalf of Goering frequently?
MILCH: No. I do not deny it at all, but I was called uppn toattend some of these conferences by virtue of my own office. I rarely had occasion to represent Goering as he usually attended these conferences himself.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You had a very large part in building up the Luftwaffe, did. you not?
MILCH: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And you were honored for that, were you not, in 1941, by the Hitler regime?
MILCH: 1941 -- no; I believe, Mr. Justice Jackson, you mean 1940.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: 1940 -- well, perhaps I am wrong.
MILCH: You mean the promotion to Field Marshal, don't you?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: When was your promotion to Field Marshal?
MILCH: On 19 July 1940.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And did you not receive a gift from the Hitler regime in recognition of your services?
MILCH: In 1942, on the occasion of my fiftieth birthday, I received a recognition.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And the recognition was in the form of cash, wasn't it?
MILCH: Yes, it was a cash recognition, with which I could buy myself an estate.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And what did it consist of?
MILCH: The sum amounted to 250,000 marks.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And now you come here to testify, as I understand your testimony, that the regime of which you were a part put Germany into a war for which it was in no way prepared. Do I understand you correctly?
MILCH: It is correct insofar as Germany in 1939 entered into a war for which she was not prepared as far as the Air Force was concerned.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Did the head of the Air Force ever give any warning of that fact to the German people?
MILCH: That I am unable to say. I do not believe he could do that.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You do not know that he ever did do it, do you?
MILCH: I cannot remember that he ever gave such a warning to the people publicly. I assume that the warning was given to his superior military officer.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And what officer would be above him?
MILCH: That would be the Fuehrer, Adolf Hitler.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The Fuehrer, yes.
MILCH: As a soldier, the Reich Marshal could not address himself to the public.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now,can you point to any time at any meeting of the High Command, or at any other meeting that the Fuehrer called, when Reich Marshal Goering, in the presence of any of these people, raised the question that Germany was not prepared for war?
MILCH: I cannot remember such a conference, because such conferences were held only between the two people concerned. The Reich Marshal never strongly opposed the Fillirer in public, or before any large group of his officers, because Hitler would not have tolerated such opposition.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Do you know of any occasion when any one of the defendants in the box ever took a public position against going to war?
MILCH: Publicly, no; I cannot remember any occasion. But I rather think that also to the gentlemen who now stand accused the whole question of the war came as a great surprise.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You would like to believe that?
MILCH: I do believe it, yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You do believe it. How long did it take the German Armed Forces to conquer Poland?
MILCH: To conquer Poland -- 18 days, I believe.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Eighteen days. How long did it take to drive England off the Continent, including the disaster of Dunkirk?
MILCH: I believe 6 weeks.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: How long did it take to overrun Holland and Belgium?
MILCH: A few days.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: How long did it take to overrun France and take Paris?
MILCH: Two months in all.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And how long did it take to overrun Denmark and take possession of Norway?
MILCH: Also a short time. Denmark took a very short time, because Denmark gave in immediately, and Norway gave in in a few weeks.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And you testify, and you want this Tribunal to understand you, as an officer, as saying that there was no preparation known to the officers in advance of those movements? Is that your testimony as an officer?
MILCH: Pardon me, I did not understand you just now.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You testified that those were all surprise movements to the officers of the Luftwaffe. You were surprised at every one of them, you said.
MILCH: I said, surprised by the outbreak of war, because at first it was a question of Poland only. The other actions came very much later and there was more time to prepare for this war.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Well now, relative to Poland, you do not deny that Germany was well prepared for a war with Poland, or do you?
MILCH: The might of Germany, as compared with Poland, was powerful enough. What I meant to imply when speaking of preparedness for war in my testimony, was a degree of preparedness for entering a world war. For that Germany was not prepared in 1939.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: But she was prepared for the campaign that she initiated, was she not?
MILCH: I would not say that; I would say that of course she had armaments, in the same way as every other nation with armed forces. Our armed forces were made ready against Poland and, to our own surprise, proved sufficiently powerful to crush Poland in a very short time.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Would you question or deny that, relative to the other powers on the Continent of Europe, Germany was the best prepared for war on the first day of September 1939?
MILCH: I believe that, taking it all round, the British Air Force at that time was stronger than the German.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I asked you in reference to the Continental powers. Do you question that Germany was far better prepared for war than any of her immediate neighbors?
MILCH: I am convinced that France and Poland, according to their respective strength, were just as well prepared for war as Germany. They had the advantage of a longer time in which to arm, whereas Germany could only begin to arm 5 years before the outbreak of the war.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: When did you first meet Hermann Goering?
MILCH: I believe in the year 1928.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: What was he then? What position did he hold?
MILCH: He was then a member of the Reichstag.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And what were you doing? What was your business?
MILCH: I was then Director of the German Lufthansa, a civil aviation concern.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Did you have some discussions with Hermann Goering at about that time as to the use of an Air Force if the Nazi Party came to power?
MILCH: At that very early time, no.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: When did you first discuss that with Goering?
MILCH: I believe Goering spoke to me on this subject in 1932, when a plan was formed to take over the government dn 1932. It was believed already at that time that the other parties would form a government together with the National Socialists. On that occasion, I think, Goering did speak of the possibility of Germany being freed from armament restrictions, given a government at the helm which included the National Socialists.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Following that you became a member of the Nazi Party, did you not?
MILCH: I joined the Party only after 1933. When I again became an officer my membership lapsed.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You waited until after they had seized the power?
MILCH: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Do you recall a conversation that you had with Hermann Goering on the 28th of January 1933?
MILCH: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And where did that take place?
MILCH: In my own residence.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Did he call upon you?
MILCH: I had guests in my house that evening, and he suddenly arrived because he wanted to talk to me very urgently.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And will you relate to the Tribunal the conversation that you had with Goering at that time?
MILCH: He told me that an agreement had now been reached with the other parties in question for the formation of a coalition government with the National Socialists. Reich President Von Hindenburg had agreed to the appointment of Adolf Hitler as Chancellor in this government. He asked me whether I would be ready to offer my collaboration in an Air Ministry to be set up. I proposed two other persons instead of myself, explaining that I did not wish to leave the Lufthansa. Goering rejected them and insisted that I place myself at his disposal.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Did you agree to do so?
MILCH: I asked for his permission to think the matter over, and I made my consent dependent on whether Hitler would insist.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Well, what did Hitler do?
MILCH: I accepted on the 30th, after Hitler had told me once again that he considered my technical knowledge and ability in the field of aviation to be indispensable.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: So, on the day that the Nazi Party came to power, you took over the task of building a Nazi air force, did you not?
MILCH: No, not an air force. The immediate problem was the linking up of all the various branches of aviation which existed at that time. For instance, there was one civil aviation transport company, or there might have been two. There were the aviation industries, the training schools for civilian pilots, the meteorological service, and I believe there were several research institutes. That, I think, covers the entire field of aviation of that time -- but it had nothing to do with an air force.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Perhaps, I will say, you took over the task of making Germany predominant in the air?
MILCH: No, I cannot agree with that.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Put it in your own way. Tell us what you did; what your object was in taking over this new task.
MILCH: My first task was to develop the various branches in order to build up a large air transport system.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You then made visits to France and England, and on your return reported to Hitler personally, did you not?
MILCH: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: When you returned from England, did you warn Hitler against the activities of Ribbentrop?
MILCH: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: What did you tell Hitler about the activities of Ribbentrop in England?
MILCH: That I had gained the impression in England that Von Ribbentrop was not persona grata .
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now,when you were interrogated before, didn't you state after your capture that you told Hitler that if he did not get rid of Ribbentrop soon he was going to have trouble with England? Is that not what you told Hitler in substance?
MILCH: I cannot now remember the exact words.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: But is that not the sense of it?
MILCH: I was of the opinion that another man should be sent to England to bring about mutual understanding as to policy, in accordance with the wish so often expressed by Hitler.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Before you talked with Hitler about that, you had discussed it with Goering, had you not?
MILCH: With whom?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Goering.
MILCH: About the journey? Or about what?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: About Ribbentrop.
MILCH: No, I did not discuss him with the Reich Marshal.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: There came a time when some engineers were sent to Russia, were they not, to inspect the air construction there, factories, facilities, and that sort of thing?
MILCH: Yes, that is correct.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: This was a group of engineers, and you had something to do with sending them there, did you not?
MILCH: No, I had nothing to do with that group. At that time technical research was not under my control.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Under whose orders were they?
MILCH: Under General Udet, who, in turn, was under the Reich Marshal.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And when they came back, you learned that they had reported that Russia had greater capacity for building airplane engines than all six of the German factories, did you not?
MILCH: Yes, that is correct.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: What order did Goering give about that information being made available even to the Fuehrer?
MILCH: Goering did not believe the information at that time. I know that from the words of General Udet.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Is it not a fact that you stated to the interrogators before that Goering called these experts defeatists, forbade them to repeat that information to anybody, and threatened them with the concentration camp if they repeated that information? Did you say that or didn't you?
MILCH: I never said it in that form.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Well, use your own words and tell us just what Goering said on that subject.
MILCH: At a considerably later date, when the question of American armament figures came Up, the Reich Marshal said to me, "Now, you too are going to turn defeatist and believe these large figures." I told him then that I did indeed believe these figures; but that had nothing to do with the Russian matter.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Were those Russian figures ever reported to Hitler, to the Reichstag or in any way made public to the German people?
MILCH: The Russian figures? That I cannot say. I had nothing to do with the matter. The American figures were undoubtedly submitted to Hitler, but Hitler did not believe them.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You testified on Friday, I believe, that you knew that the commencement of the war with Russia would mean the annihilation of Germany. I remind you of that, and that is correct, is it not?
MILCH: Not the destruction -- the defeat. I think I said annihilation or defeat.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You went to Reich Marshal Goering to protest against the entrance into the Russian war, is that right?
MILCH: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And did Goering agree with you that it would end in the defeat of Germany?
MILCH: No, he did not agree. He had to be extremely cautious in his statements in deference to his relations with Hitler. I told him the cause for Germany's difficulties and he nodded. His words gave me the impression that he had already put the same arguments to Hitler, and that he had been unsuccessful.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: In other words, he agreed with you that it would end with the defeat of Germany, but did not want it said to Hitler, is that right?
MILCH: No, I would not go as far as that. When I said that this meant the defeat of Germany, I was voicing the conclusion reached by me. He merely agreed that this war should be avoided at all costs and that it would prove a misfortune for Germany. That was the way he put it; he did not use the word "defeat" in this connection.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Was it mentioned by you?
MILCH: I mentioned that to open a second front against so strong an enemy would mean the defeat of Germany.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And did he disagree with you about that? Did he take issue with you about that?
MILCH: No, he did not argue about it, he only declared himself opposed to taking on anything else, as he considered it impossible to do so; what we thought would not make the slightest difference and it would only give Hitler the impression that we in the Luftwaffe were defeatists.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And you did not attempt any further to convey the information, from which you thought Germany would be defeated if she entered into war with Russia, to Hitler or to any other officer of the High Command?
MILCH: It was impossible for me to do so. I could not act against the order of my superior officer.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Of the Reich Marshal?
MILCH: Yes, of the Reich Marshal.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And, so far as you know,after his talk with you he never conveyed the information to Hitler that it was your opinion that the war would end in disaster?
MILCH: I had the impression that he had previously discussed the subject with Hitler but without any degree of success, because with Hitler that was impossible.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Well, but you had been abroad for Hitler and reported to him and he apparently had confidence in you, and I am asking you if Hermann Goering ever reported to Hitler that you, from your information, felt that it was a disaster to go into that war?
MILCH: My trips were not made at Hitler's order. They were made in response to invitations from foreign governments to the Luftwaffe and at the order of the Reich Marshal. It was only because I was aware of the dmportance of these trips and because I incidentally heard political statements -- in spite of my reluctance at the time, since they did not concern me as a soldier -- that I thought it my duty to report personally to Hitler.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Did Goering direct you to do that?
MILCH: To go to Hitler? Yes, Goering told Hitler about it and Hitler ordered me to report to him. I myself did not say, "I am now going to see Hitler," but I received an order to that effect from Hitler himself.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And he did not send you to Hitler until he knew what you were going to report?
MILCH: No, he himself had...
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: So he did know?
MILCH: He himself had no cognizance of the subject. He had no time to receive me.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Goering had no time to receive you?
MILCH: No. Goering at that time had many other matters on hand and he did not want to hear about these things.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: So he left that to Hitler, who was not busy, I take it. Is that true?
MILCH: Hitler was interested in the matter.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I think you told us in interrogations that Goering was not very industrious. Is that correct?
MILCH: I should be very reluctant to answer that question.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Very well, I withdraw it. It was not a kindly question to begin with. When you found that Germany was going into a war which you, an informed officer, considered a disaster, did you resign?
MILCH: Resign? What from?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Resign your commission as an officer or take any other steps to protest?
MILCH: No, that was absolutely impossible. There was an order which ruled it impossible.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And who gave that order?
MILCH: Hitler himself.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, you said you had experienced this yourself.
MILCH: Not only in my own case. The order applied generally.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You said on Friday that you experienced it yourself, that you could not resign.
MILCH: No; one could not resign.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Did you try it at any time?
MILCH: I frequently applied for my discharge in peacetime. My resignation, however, was not accepted, the reason given being that I had no right to ask for it, but that I would be told by higher authorities when I had to go. During the war I never applied for my discharge, because as a soldier in wartime I could not apply for it.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Did you not have some talk with Goering at one time about retiring from your position, in which he not only forbade you to leave, but also told you there would be no use in feigning ill health?
MILCH: Yes. There was no possibility of giving this as the reason unless one was really ill. When retiring from a high position it had been customary in the past to plead ill health. Now this was no longer possible.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And he did suggest to you in that discussion one way out, did he not?
MILCH: No, he did not suggest a way out, but I did.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: What did you suggest? What talk did you have about suicide? Did Goering tell you that the only way you could get out was to commit suicide?
MILCH: That would have been the only possible way out.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Well, did Goering tell you that?
MILCH: No, I said that; not he.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And he did not disagree with you, I take it.
MILCH: No. He did not care if I did or not.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, you have the regulations with you, which you say were printed for the information of every soldier, about international law and regulations. You have them with you this morning?
MILCH: I have them with me; the regulations are contained in my service book, the same as for every soldier.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You gave us a little information about that, but I would like you to get that out and give us exactly the text of those instructions or regulations, which you say reflect international law as you understood it.
MILCH: Do you want me to read it out now? The quotation ...
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Not too fast.
MILCH: No. "Ten Commandments for the Conduct of the German Soldier in War. "1. The German soldier fights chivalrously for the victory of his people. Cruelty and needless destruction are unworthy of him. "2. The fighter must wear a uniform, or else he must be provided with insignia visible from a good distance. Fighting in civilian clothes without such insignia is prohibited. "3. No enemy once he has surrendered shall be killed, not even a partisan or a spy. The courts will administer the just punishment. "4. Prisoners of war must not be maltreated or insulted. Weapons, plans and notes are to be taken from them. Apart from these, none of their possessions may be taken from them. "5. Dum-dum bullets are prohibited. Bullets may not be transformed into dum-dum bullets. "6. The Red Cross is inviolable. Wounded enemies must be treated humanely. Medical orderlies and chaplains must not be hindered in the performance of tfieir medical and spiritual functions. "7. The civilian population is inviolable. The soldier must not plunder or wantonly destroy. Historical monuments and buildings dedicated to religious service, art, science, or charity must be treated with special care. Personal services and services in kind shall only be required of the civilian population against compensation, and if ordered by the superior officer. "8. Neutral territory must not be militarily involved by trespassing, by planes flying over it, or by gunfire. "9. If a German soldier is captured, he must state his name and rank when questioned. Under no circumstances may he say to what unit he belongs, or speak about military, political, or economic conditions on the German side, neither may he allow himself to be induced to do so by threats or promises. "10. Any contravention of these orders while on active service is punishable. Breaches by the enemy of the rules listed under 1 to 8 are to be reported. Reprisals are permissible only by order of the higher commanders."
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now that, as you understand it, is the military law conforming with international law, which was promulgated for the governance of the troops in the field?
MILCH: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: And you understood, and it was generally understood in the German Army, that that was international law, was it not?
MILCH: Every soldier could not help knowing that these were the German regulations because they were pasted on the first sheet of the pay book, issued to every soldier, and which he had to carry on him. The common soldier, of course, did not know that they represented international law.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The higher commanders, like yourself did, didn't they?
MILCH: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: That represented your understanding and interpretation of your duties and obligations as honorable men in combat?
MILCH: Yes.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, did you participate in the activities of Hermann Goering in collecting the art treasures of France and other occupied territories?
MILCH: No.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Did you participate in the removal of the civilian population for forced labor?
MILCH: No.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: You know that was done, do you not?
MILCH: I did not know that the workers who came from foreign countries had been deported; we were told that they had been recruited on a voluntary basis. In the case of France, I know that up to a certain date the French had wanted to come, but after that date they no longer wanted to come, and that the French Government itself had issued directives to deal with this.