dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
BRILL: Of course. I always asked, because as a former member of the Leibstandarte I was still interested in what was going on. But I did not discuss individual items such as, for example, the speech of the Reichsfuehrer.
MAJOR JONES: Because he was educating your division in what is the very opposite of honor and decency, you know. Did you know, for instance, of the mass murder of the leaders of the Polish nation by the SS?
BRILL: That cannot be possible. I read a great deal of the training material of the Waffen-SS. I did not read any request to commit such mass murders.
MAJOR JONES: Let me read to you two or three sentences from a speech Himmler made to the officers of your own regiment. I refer to Document Number 1918-PS, Exhibit USA-304: "Very often the member of the Waffen-SS thinks about the deportation of this people here. These thoughts came to me today when watching the very difficult work out there per-formed by the Security Police, supported by your men, who helped them a great deal. Exactly the same thing happened in Poland in weather with 40 degrees of cold, where we had to haul away thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thou-sands; where we had to have the toughness-you should hear this but also forget it again immediately where we had to have the toughness to shoot thousands of leading Poles, other-wise one might later sorely regret it." Are you saying that you did not know that Himmler said that to your regiment?
BRILL: In the first place, I did not know it. In the second place as far as I have heard, no members of the Waffen-SS did that. Himmler said "we." I do not know who this "we" is. As far as I heard, that cannot be gathered from the speech.
MAJOR JONES: Himmler was addressing the officers of your regiment, the Adolf Hitler SS Leibstandarte, and told them that the murders shall be the work of the Security Police, namely, your men, the men of your regiment. That is perfectly clear, is it not?
BRILL: No. That is not clear. The whole thing is wrong.
MAJOR JONES: Let me read to you another indication of the honor and decency in which you were apparently being inculcated. At Page 10 of the German text of Himmler's speech, Page 3 of the English text, you will see how Himmler-you need not trouble to read it at the moment-you will see how Himmler was telling your regiment of the SS that out of the slave labor of the victims of his organization, money was to be raised for the benefit of the SS men. I will read to you what he said.
THE PRESIDENT: We have had this document read before, I think.
MAJOR JONES: Yes, My Lord, I am only going to refer to two sentences of it.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness said he was not there.
MAJOR JONES: That is so, My Lord. What I am suggesting is that this was an address to the officers of his own regiment. At the showing before the Commissioner, it was indicated he joined a month later. When did you rejoin the Leibstandarte, Witness? In 1941?
BRILL: I joined in 1933.
MAJOR JONES: Did you rejoin it again in 1941?
BRILL: In 1941, from July to August, I was on the Russian front with the Leibstandarte.
MAJOR JONES: So you joined this regiment a few weeks after Himmler had addressed the officers of it?
BRILL: I do not know exactly when Himmler's speech was in Metz.
MAJOR JONES: If it is not desired that I should put the docu-ment to the witness, I certainly should not do so against the wish of the Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal would rather you did not.
MAJOR JONES: Can you explain to the Tribunal why it was that the Waffen-SS, the personnel of the Waffen-SS, were used in antipartisan activity?
BRILL: No. I do not know that the Waffen-SS was particularly used against the partisans. By virtue of my position, I know that 'the Waffen-SS was often subordinate to Army units in the rear areas and there, perhaps in exceptional cases, has been employed in antipartisan activities. On the whole, however, the Waffen-SS with its divisions was at the front. I know nothing of the special partisan units of the Waffen-SS.
MAJOR JONES: I suggest to you that for military or other tasks that call for ruthlessness or political fanaticism, the Waffen-SS was used. Is that not so?
BRILL: I do not know that. I know nothing about it. Please give me an example and I will comment on it.
MAJOR JONES: I will tell you what Field Marshal Göring has said about it to the Duce, in the Palazzo Venezia on 23 October 1942. I am referring to the Document D-729, Exhibit GB-281. He described Germany's method in fighting the partisans. He describes the taking away of livestock and the other details of the technique that was advocated; and then Göring says: "Germany had experienced that, generally speaking, soldiers were of no use in carrying out such measures. Members of the Party discharged this task much more harshly and efficiently." If you'll be good enough to listen to me reading it, Witness, it will come over the earphones. "Members of the Party discharged this task much more harshly and efficiently. For the same reason armies that were strengthened by a political creed such as the German (or the Russian) fought harder than others. Also the SS, the guard of the old fighters of the Party, who have personal ties with the Fuehrer and who constitute an elite, confirm this principle." That's correct, isn't it, Witness?
BRILL: I do not know whether the Reich Marshal gave any order to the Waffen-SS to combat the partisans. What the prose-cutor has just read is a statement of opinion to another statesman. I do not consider this an order to the Waffen-SS; and for that -reason I maintain my testimony that the Waffen-SS as a unit was not used for combating partisans.
MAJOR JONES: If it please Your Lordship, in' view of the evidence which is before the Tribunal on the employment of the Waffen-SS and on its pay measures, I am not going to proceed with the cross-examination as to the general matters with which this witness dealt. The Court has indicated that it does not desire me to put matters which should be put in cross-examination before the Commissioners and under these circumstances I have no further questions to ask but I will take my cross-examination before the Commissioners for the purposes of the Tribunal. '
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: I am going to ask a very few short questions with your permission, My Lord. As I understood you, Witness, you were very surprised when you learned about the killings in the concentration camps?
BRILL: Yes.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: And you contend that the Waffen--SS did not participate in the killings in the concentration camps?
BRILL: I said that I and countless comrades of the Waffen-SS knew nothing about them. The defendant's counsel told me that killings were carried out. I did not deny it.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Will you tell us, please, who was in charge of the command within the concentration camp. Was it not the Waffen-SS?
BRILL: No, they were not commands of the Waffen-SS. Certain members of the nominal Waffen-SS were with the commands; but there is a clear order of the High Command of the Armed Forces which I have already mentioned. It is included in the Army circular of December 1940, and states that members of the Death's-Head units do not do any military service in the sense' of the Waffen-SS -Members of the Death's-Head units.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: I would like to ask you to be more concise. So you contend that the commands in concentration camps were not Waffen-SS commands?
BRILL: The commands were not under the High Command of the Waffen-SS; but I wish to point out that members of the Waffen-SS were with the commands. This is the difference.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Now, were these commands not commands of the Waffen-SS?
BRILL: No, they were not commands of the Waffen-SS.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Another question, before I refresh your memory on these matters. Is not the High Command of t1te Waffen-SS responsible for the most terrible crimes committed in the concentration camps?
BRILL: The Inspectorate of the Concentration Camps was the supreme authority for the guard personnel and for the commands of the concentration camps; and this inspectorate was responsible, as far as I know, for all concentration camps.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: What was the rank of Gueicks? Do you know that name?
BRILL: Gueicks was the chief of the Inspectorate of the Con-centration Camps.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: I am asking you about his military rank. Was he a general of the Waffen-SS?
BRILL: I believe he was a lieutenant general of the Waffen-SS.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: Sir, please allow me, in order to refute the words of the witness, to present a document which, although it is a private document, has an exceptional evidential value and without which the material of the proceeding would be incomplete. I am speaking now of a circular letter of the Major General of the Waffen-SS, Gueicks, about the utilization of human hair in the concentration camps. If the Tribunal please, while evi-dence was presented concerning the Auschwitz Concentration Camps, we mentioned that 7 tons of hair cut off from 140,000 women's heads had been found there. We did not know till now what was to be done with this hair; but now we have an original document which I am submitting. This document has been found in the archives. I will quote the whole document, Document Number USSR-511, with your permission. I am quoting: "Secret. SS Economic and Administrative Main Office, Amts-gruppe D, Concentration Camp, Oranienburg, 6 August 1942. Copy Number 13. Regarding: Utilization of cut hair. To the commanders of the concentration camps...." And then 13 concentration camps are mentioned. I skip them. "The chief of the SS Economic and Administrative Main Office, SS Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl, on the basis of a report submitted to him, has ordered that all human hair cut in concentration camps be appropriately utilized. Human hair is to be used for the manufacture of industrial felt and to be spun into yarn. Out of combed and cut hair of women, hair-yarn socks for U-boat crews are to be made, as well as hair-felt stockings for employees of the Reich railways. "Therefore, I order that the hair of women prisoners after due disinfection be collected. Cut hair of male prisoners can only be utilized beginning with a length of at least 20 milli-meters. "SS Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl, therefore, gave his consent that by way of experiment the hair of male prisoners should be cut only when it reaches a length of 20 millimeters.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: "In order to avoid facilitating escape through the increase in length of hair, in all cases where the commander deems it necessary to earmark the prisoners, a strip of hair should be clipped by means of a narrow clipper right over the middle of the head. "The hair gathered in all the camps will be utilized by creating a special production unit in one of the concentration camps. More detailed instructions as to the delivery of the collected hair will be given separately. "Reports on amount of hair gathered each month, male and female recorded separately, must be submitted on the 5th of each month, beginning with 5 September 1942. "Signed: Gueicks, SS Brigadefuehrer and Major General of the Waffen-SS." Now, Witness, I would like you to look at the stamp. Do you see this stamp? It says, "Waffen-SS Kommandantur, KL Sachsen-hausen." Do you still assert that the command of the camps was not composed of the Waffen-SS?
BRILL: Yes. I will explain that. The commands of the Waffen--SS-the commands of the concentration camps were officially on the budget of the Waffen-SS, as it was necessary to have all economic...
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: So they were on the budget of the Waffen-SS, were they not?
BRILL: I said they were on the budget of the Waffen-SS. For economic reasons it was necessary that the commands, in their dealings with the Reich, operate under the name of an organization which had the possibility of working with Reich funds and with the Reich authorities.
MR. COUNSELLOR SMIRNOV: To clarify this question, Mr. President, may I draw your attention to the stamp where it is said, "Kommandantur, KL Sachsenhausen, Waffen-SS." This proves that the Waffen-SS was in charge of the command. I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you want to re-examine?
BERR PELCKMANN: Witness, I will also ask the next witness about what I am asking you now in one final question. Did you ever hear the expression "nominal Waffen-SS"?
BRILL: Yes. The expression "nominal Waffen-SS" was applied by -us for the guards and commands of the Waffen-SS, insofar as these commands were in the Waffen-SS at all, that is to say in the "nominal Waffen-SS." Within the Waffen-SS, as I have already explained when mentioning the regulations for replacement, we had the Waffen-SS proper, that is, the troops; and then on the economic budget of the Waffen-SS, we had various formations which, at the order of Himmler, were put there so that they could enjoy the advantages of the Waffen-SS with regard to dealings of an economic nature, et cetera, with the authorities.
BERR PELCKMANN: Then the term "nominal Waffen-SS" was a technical expression which was known everywhere?
BRILL: Yes. The Waffen-SS proper, that is the troops, were under a command office of the Waffen-SS unless they were at the front and thug under the Army. And this Inspectorate of the Con-centration Camps was not under the command office of the Waffen-SS and received no orders from this office. The Inspectorate of the Concentration Camps, Gueicks' office, had its own channel of command. As far as I know, it received its mail independently, and so forth. It did not come into closer contact with the Waffen-SS and, to my knowledge, not even with the WVHA, although it was an Amtsgruppe of this office.
HERR PELCKMANN: Thank you.
THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): Witness, you said that the Kom-mandaturen were within the budget of the Waffen-SS. Did you mean on the budget of the Waffen-SS?
BRILL: On the budget as far as I know.
THE TRIBUNAL (MR. BIDDLE): Of the Waffen-SS?
BRILL: On the budget of the Waffen-SS, as far as I know.
THE PRESIDENT: And was the Inspectorate of Concentration Camps also on the budget of the Waffen-SS?
BRILL: I cannot say that for sure.
TM PRESIDENT: How were the Waffen-SS paid in the first place? Were they paid in the same manner as the Wehrmacht?
BRILL: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Were they paid the same amounts?
BRILL: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: And was their budget in the budget of the Wehrmacht or was there a separate budget?
BRILL: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: What do you mean "yes"? Was it in the budget of the Wehrmacht, or was it a separate budget?
BRILL: We were paid according to the pay order of the Army, that is, from the budget of the Wehrmacht.
THE PRESIDENT: So in all respects as far as pay went, you were part of the regular Army, is that right?
BRILL: Yes, that's right.
THE PRESIDENT: Why then did you keep this separate designa-tion of Waffen-SS if you, were part of the Wehrmacht?
BRILL: I assume that Himmler and particularly Hitler wanted it that way. He wanted to have a Waffen-SS, a special troop.
THE PRESIDENT: You had separate uniforms, did you not? You had different uniforms from the Wehrmacht?
BRILL: We had the same uniforms, only different insignia. That is, we had the same shoulder insignia, only in addition we had stars and stripes which the Wehrmacht did not have.
THE PRESIDENT: To what extent after you joined the Army, were you still subject to Himmler's command?
BRILL: We were not under Himmler's orders at all. Up to 1939 we were as SS Verfuegungstruppe under Hitler's orders; and then the Waffen-SS was also under the orders of Hitler in his capacity as Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces.
THE PRESIDENT: Did Himmler have anything to do with the Waffen-SS?
BRILL: Yes. For example, Himmler had the right of inspection, he had the right to make promotions; and with regard to administra-tion and the care of the troops, and also, as far as I know, on legal matters, Himmler, that is, his main offices had an influence.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness can retire.
HERR PELCKMANN: Your Lordship, to clear up the question which the Tribunal has just asked, I consider it necessary to call the head of W`VHA, Amtsgruppe D, the witness Pohl. It is not quite sure ...
THE PRESIDENT: Is he one of the witnesses that have been allowed to you?
HERR PELCKMANN: He is not one of these witnesses. I want only to prepare orally for my written application which I shall hand in.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal thinks you had better call your next witness, Dr. Pelckmann.
HERR PELCKMANN: The next witness will be well qualified to testify on the questions that were asked the last witness.  I shall make my suggestion for the cross-examination of the witness Pohl in writing. I call the witness Hauser. [The witness Hauser took the stand.]
THE PRESIDENT: Will you state your full name, please?
PAUL HAUSER (Witness): Paul Hauser.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you repeat this oath after me: I swear by God the Almighty and Omniscient-that I will speak the truth -and will withhold and add nothing. [The witness repeated the oath.]
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down.
HERR PELCKMANN: When were you born?
HAUSER: I was born on 7 October 1880.
HERR PELCKMANN: You were a professional soldier?
HAUSER: Yes.
HERR PELCKMANN: When did you leave the Armed Forces?
HAUSER: On 1 February 1932 I left the Reichswehr as a heuten-ant general.
HERR PELCKMANN: How did you come to the SS?
HAUSER: In 1933, as a non-Party member, I joined the Stahl-helm and with this organization I was transferred to the SA reserve in 1934. After the events in the summer of 1934, I was asked by Heinrich Himmler whether I would be willing to take over the establishment and direction of an officer candidate school. I accepted this assignment, and in November 1934 1 joined the Verfuegungstruppe.
HE RR PELCKMANN: At what time and in what position did you acquire the knowledge which enables you to appear here and testify as a witness for the SS?
HAUSER: From Easter 1935 to the summer of 1936 I directed the school. Then I was inspector of the Verfuegungstruppe from 1936 to 1939. During the war, for 2 years in each capacity, I led an SS division and an SS Panzer corps, and then from 1944 on I was again in the Army, as commander-in-chief of an army group. I am in a position to give information on the Verfuegungstruppe in peacetime and on the Waffen-SS during the war, as far as I became acquainted with them personally, and as far as they were under my orders. I do not know the General SS. During the war I was not employed at any main office.
HERR PELCKMANN: What was your last rank in the Waffen-SS?
HAUSER: I was Generaloberst in the Waffen-SS.
HERR PELCKMANN: What was your last position?
HAUSER: My last position, at the beginning of 1945, was Com-mander-in-Chief of Army Group D, on the southern flank of the Western Front.
HERR PELCKMANN: About how many divisions were under you at that time?
HAUSER: This army group had 20 to 30 divisions alternately, only two of which belonged to the Waffen-SS..
HERR PELCKMANN: How did you as a general of the Waffen--SS, get a leading position in the Army?
HAUSER: That was a result of the close co-operation between the Army and the Waffen-SS. I can have been recommended to this job only by reason of favorable opinions of my superiors in the Army.
HERR PELCKMANN: Let us go back to the initial stages. When was the Verfuegungstruppe created? How strong was it, and how did it develop?
HAUSER: The beginnings of the Verfuegungstruppe go back to the year 1933. In this year the Leibstandarte was created as a sort of bodyguard for Adolf Hitler. Following that, some battalions were formed for representational purposes. Only at the very beginning, in 1933 and 1934, were men of the General SS employed; later the very youngest of the age groups subject to military duty were recruited.
HERR PELCKMANN: What was the strength in 1936, and, for instance, in 1939?
HAUSER: In 1936 there were three infantry regiments and three technical battalions. In 1939 there were four infantry regiments one artillery regiment, and three technical battalions.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal thinks this would be a con-venient time to break off. [A recess was taken.]
TBE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will adjourn at half past 4 this afternoon.
HERR PELCKMANN: Witness, what was the purpose and the task of the so-called Verfuegungstruppe? Was it to serve as a new armed force alongside the Armed Forces?
HAUSER: The purpose and the tasks were laid down in the basic decree of Adolf Hitler of August 1938. According to that decree the Verfuegungstruppe was to belong neither to the Armed Forces nor to the Police. It was a permanent troop at the disposition of Adolf Hitler, and it was paid from State funds. The training was supervised by the High Command of the Army and replacements were taken from volunteers of the youngest age groups.
HERR PELCKMANN: Was the Verfuegungstruppe, therefore, meant to be a political nucleus? The Prosecution accuses it of being a special instrument for the oppression and elimination of political opponents and of having aided realization of the Nazi ideology by use of force.
HAUSER: That is not true., The Verfuegungstruppe had-neither political nor Police tasks. It developed gradually into a test troop which incorporated all the old soldierly virtues with the require-ments of our socialist age. It paid special attention to the relations between officers and men, encouraged advancement without special examinations, and did away with any and all exclusiveness.
HERR PELCKMANN: Were the members of the Verfuegungs-truppe expected to render blind obedience?
HAUSER: No. We swore obedience and loyalty to Adolf Hitler and to our superiors. Unconditional obedience leading to crime was not expected and was not sworn to.
HERR PELCKMANN: The Prosecution is particularly accusing the Verfuegungstruppe for inciting racial hatred and for the persecu-tion of the Jews as one of its special tasks. Was the troop trained for these purposes?
HAUSER: The political and ideological training could only be achieved by schooling. I, personally, as director of the school and as an inspector, have closely watched this training, for I was a new man myself and had first to acquaint myself with these ways of thinking. I can testify that race hatred and the extermination of Jewry or of the Eastern peoples was never taught and was never demanded.
HERR PELCKMANN: According to the Prosecution, this troop served for the purpose of preparing for an aggressive war. Was Germany's predominance by terror and the conquest of all Europe taught?
HAUSER: These young troops needed time and peace for the fulfillment of their tasks. Their commanders were all veterans of the first World War. They knew war and they knew what misery it had brought to us once already. The thought of terrorizing Ger-man domestic life or of dominating Europe never entered the mind of this small, young troop.
HERR PELCKMANN: Can it be deduced from the organization of this Verfuegungstruppe, even before the re-establishment of con-scription in 1936, that by its formation a breach of the Treaty of Versailles was intended?
HAUSER: Before the re-establishment of conscription, this tr6pp had consisted at the most of 4,000 to 5,000 men and could not be used -for either a defensive or an offensive war. And later, too, it was not prepared for war, as it had no divisional staff, no general staff, no replacement of men or officers. It was far from being ready for a war of aggression.
HERR PELCKMANN: What tasks did you personally have as inspector of the Verfuegungstruppe?
HAUSER: I was not a commander vested with power to issue orders but rather an inspector responsible for the training and education of the troop. Beyond that, I had to enforce orders which I received from Heinrich Himmler on questions of organization.
HERR PELCKMANN: Did the replacements consist of volun-teers? And where did they come from? What were the motives for their joining?