dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
DIECKHOFF: Until Herr Von Neurath's resignation in February 1938, I always presumed that Hitler agreed with the peaceful policy pursued by Herr Von Neurath; and I never heard or learned anything to the contrary.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Do you know what the thoughts, the considerations of Herr Von Neurath in 1935 were regarding the question of rearmament, that is to say, the re-establishment of Germany's military sovereignty?'
DIECKHOFF: I know that Herr Von Neurath held the view that Germany, by the declaration of the Western Powers on 11 December 1932, had been granted equality of rights; and he considered her to have the indisputable right to rearm after all disarmament efforts had failed.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: I should like to put the same question to you, with regard to the considerations and attitude of Herr Von Neurath, with reference to the remilitarization of the demilitarized Rhineland.
DIECKHOFF: I know that Herr Von Neurath was aware of the seriousness of this problem, for he knew that the problem of the remilitarization of the Rhineland was interconnected with the Locarno Pact; but I know that he saw a breach of the Locarno Pact in the Franco-Russian Agreement of Mutual Assistance concluded in May 1935 and that as a result of the ratification of this pact, or its going into effect, he firmly believed that Germany had the right to re-establish military sovereignty in the Rhineland.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: What was the general political situation in those days? Taking it into consideration, was it not justified to assume that sooner or later a peaceful solution of this Rhineland problem would be arrived at in any case?
DIECKHOFF: At any rate, the actual development after 7 March 1936 showed that the Western Powers, though they did not agree to the remilitarization of the Rhineland, nevertheless very quickly acquiesced in the fait accompli. I was at that time, during the second half of March 1936, for 2 weeks in London on behalf of the Reich Government; and I had the opportunity to discuss this matter with many Englishmen; and the view I found in the widest circles was that as Germany had been granted equality of rights one could not deny her the right to remilitarize the Rhineland. In some circles I even found the view that it was a relief that the remilitarization of the Rhineland, which was due sooner or later in any case, was carried out so quickly and comparatively painlessly.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: And now one last question. What do you know about Herr Von Neurath's resignation from the position of Reich Foreign Minister in February 1938?
DIECKHOFF: I was Ambassador to Washington at that time and I was completely surprised by Foreign Minister Von Neurath's sudden departure. I did know that there were many things he did not agree with and that he had asked several times to be allowed to resign. I also knew that he was ill; he suffered from a neurotic heart. I also knew that he had passed his sixty-fifth birthday, which gave him the right to retire. But I was surprised all the same, particularly as I did not know the details at that time. I regretted the resignation of the Foreign Minister, in whose peace policy I had confidence, very much. I remember that the official circles -in Washington also regretted the departure of Herr Von Neurath very much, for Under Secretary of State Sumner Welles approached me a few days after this event and told me that the American Government regretted the departure of this man who had pursued a moderate policy.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, I have no further questions to this witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Do any other members of the defendants' counsel wish to ask him any questions?
DR. KUBUSCHOK: One single question, Witness. You said that if Von Neurath assumed the office of Foreign Minister, you had expected that he would continue Stresemann's and Bruning's policy. According to your knowledge did he actually continue this policy of Bruning's after he became Foreign Minister?
DIECKHOFF: Yes.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Thank you.
SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: My Lord, on the same basis I intimated with regard to the last witness, the Prosecution do not desire to take up time by asking any questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Then the witness may retire.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, may I then have your permission to call my third and last witness, Dr. Volkers, into the witness stand. [The witness Volkers took the stand.]
THE PRESIDENT: Will you state your full name, please?
HANS HERMANN VOLKERS (witness): Hans Herman Volkers.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you repeat this oath after me: I swear by God-the Almighty and Omniscient-that I will speak the pure truth-and will withhold and add nothing. [The witness repeated the oath.]
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Witness, you were twice the personal adviser to Herr Von Neurath; first in his position as Foreign Minister and later in his position as Reich Protector of Bohemia and Moravia; is that correct?
VOLKERS: Yes; since 1920 I was a member of the Foreign Office, and I spent all my time abroad. Under Stresemann I spent 4 years in Geneva as Consul General and as the permanent German representative to the League of Nations; and in 1932 I was called to the Foreign Office and became personal adviser to the newly, appointed Foreign Minister, Herr Von Neurath. I remained in that position for a year; and then, upon my own request, I was sent to Madrid as Embassy Counsellor, and later I became Minister to Havana. In 1939 I was called back to the Foreign Office to act as personal adviser with the title of chief of the office of Herr Von Neurath, who in the meantime had been appointed Reich Protector in Prague.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Did this appointment as personal adviser to Herr Von Neurath in Prague take place on the basis of any personal relations or merely for professional reasons?
VOLKERS: Only for professional reasons. Until I was his attaché in Berlin I did not know Herr Von Neurath.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: What was the attitude of the officials of the Foreign Ministry toward Herr Von Neurath's appointment as Foreign Minister?
VOLKERS: I had the impression that the officials of the Foreign Office were generally most satisfied that in view of the difficult internal political situation an old professional diplomat and expert minister took over the direction of the Foreign Ministry, because they saw in that a guarantee for a steady foreign political course; all the more so as it was known that Herr Von Neurath had the special confidence of Reich President Von' Hindenburg and because he enjoyed, due to his entire personality and his equanimity, the special recognition and veneration of all the officials of the Foreign Office. ' When Hitler came to power I had the impression that he was skeptical and reserved toward him. He did not belong to the circle of the closer associates of Hitler, and during the time I was with him he never attended these evening conferences which Hitler held in the Reich Chancellery in those days. Gradually, however, the pressure on the Foreign Office increased more and more. The Auslands-Organisation was created and the office of Ribbentrop started a competitive enterprise into which were called all sorts of people/who had been abroad. They made all sorts of reports which went directly to the Fuehrer without being controlled by the Foreign Office. And then later on the head of the Auslands-Organisation was installed as commissioner in the Foreign Office while Prince Waldeck was transferred into the personnel department of the Foreign Office. At that stage the pressure became so strong that finally one could not fight against it any more. But the fact that the Foreign Office had isolated itself for so long and that it was still evading the pressure of the Party, that, I think, is certainly the merit of the then Foreign Minister and his State Secretary Von Bulow. When the Jewish laws were then introduced into the Foreign Office, too, I know that Herr Von Neurath protected, as far as that was possible, his officials. I was in Stockholm during the last 2 years of the war and met there two former colleagues of mine with whom I am close friends.
VOLKERS: One is Ministerial Director Richard Meter who used to be in charge of the Eastern department and who had to leave quite soon and who often told me in Stockholm how grateful he was to Herr Von Neurath for not only having enabled him to take with him his family and his furniture and everything when he went abroad but also that Herr Von Neurath, until the collapse, continued to pay him his monthly pensions in Swedish kroner.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: What was your position and your activity in Prague in the Government of the Protectorate?
VOLKERS: My position in Prague with the Government of the Protectorate was approximately the same as the one I had 7 years earlier when I had been personal adviser to the Foreign Minister in the Foreign Office in Berlin, with the exception that in the Foreign Office there is a special protocol department and a chief of protocol, whereas in Prague I was also in charge of all protocols and ceremonial affairs, and that was really my chief occupation. I was head of the so-called Office of the Reich Protector, not to be confused with the principal authority, with which I had nothing to do. When I came to Prague in the summer of 1939 the office already had been functioning for several months. My predecessor was one Legation Counsellor Von Kessel from the Foreign Office. Apart from myself two other officials from the Foreign Office, who were subordinated to me, belonged to the Office of the Reich Protector, also one Count Waldburg, whose mother was a Czech and who was engaged by the Reich Protector because he was hoping to establish, especially through him, good relations with the Czechs. The office was responsible, apart from the general and usual routine matters, for dealing with the private correspondence and the handling of personal petitions. In the course of time we had to set up a special department, because later on, when the many arrests took place, we received so many petitions, most of which were addressed to the Reich Protector personally.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Von Ludinghausen, surely this is very remote from anything we have got to consider, and all the previous evidence this witness has given has been cumulative evidence which has not been cross-examined upon before; and now what he is saying is all very remote to anything we have to consider.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: In fact, I have already come to an end, Mr. President. I merely wanted to show that he is in a position to answer the following questions from his own knowledge. [Turning to the witness.] What can you tell us from your own observations and experiences about the attitude of Herr Von Neurath toward the Czechs?
VOLKERS: I can give you only general impressions. As I have already told you, I had nothing to do with the actual activities of the office but was attached to Herr Von Neurath personally only for his private affairs and all ceremonial matters. But I. do know, and he told me, that when he took over his position as Reich Protector, he did so with the intention of treating the Czech population as justly and decently as possible in order to create, by smoothing out the differences, a healthy basis for a peaceful living, side by side, of the two nations. He told me frequently that he was appointed Reich Protector, that is, protector of the Czechs; and we knew that the last German Ambassador in Prague, Dr.Eisenlohr, had often reported that the last Czechoslovakian Government, for their part, had been prepared to effect an Anschluss with Germany. He was an opponent of using military measures, and Herr Von Neurath told me when I came to Prague-I think it was in September 1938-that he had expressed himself very strongly against their use and that he together with Goering had visited Hitler in Munich in order to dissuade him from that. In my office I experienced again and again that Herr Von Neurath-shall I go on-was very open-handed toward the Czechs with regard to petitions. He had a lot of sympathy and understanding; he examined each individual case, and that was very well known among the Czechs. And as we in this office had the possibility of submitting each single request and petition of Czech individuals directly to the highest chief, the Czech petitioners very frequently and gladly used this channel because the prospects for a positive action on their private requests and petitions through the highest local chief promised to be much more favorable than if they were quickly processed by the authorities concerned in the Government. Particularly this practice brought us in conflict with the State Secretary...
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Von Ludinghausen, this witness is simply making speeches, you know. You are not asking him any questions at all. He is simply going on...
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Witness, what do you know about the personal and official relationship between Von Neurath and the President of State Hacha?
VOLKERS: According to my observations, the personal and official relationship between the Reich Protector and the President of State Hacha was excellent; and I believe that this was not merely a matter of form, but I had the impression that Herr Von Neurath really and sincerely liked the President of State because he considered him a very decent and upright man who, under the existing circumstances . . .
THE PRESIDENT: Witness, when you see your counsel has heard enough of your answer, surely you can stop.. .
VOLKERS: Very well.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: What was the relationship between Herr Von Neurath and the State Secretary attached to him, Frank?
VOLKERS: That was a very bad one. Herr Von Neurath told me already at the time when I assumed my office that he had had considerable difficulties with him because of his definite anti-Czech attitude, as a Sudeten German-an attitude which a Reich German could not easily understand. He had always hoped, however, that Frank, who was not a civil servant but an outsider, would gradually follow his policy and adapt himself to the civil service staff. But unfortunately this was not possible. I do not know when...
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Witness, can you describe to us briefly what the actual official powers of Herr Von Neurath and Frank were in relation to each other?
VOLKERS: Herr Von Neurath was the superior of the State Secretary. The State Secretary was in charge of the entire internal administration, which was a very large one. Under State Secretary Von Burgsdorff, who I think has been examined already before this High Tribunal, worked under him. Besides being State Secretary, Frank was also the Higher Police and SS Leader.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Now, did Herr Von Neurath have a certain influence on this part of Frank's activities, that is to say, in his capacity as Higher SS and Police Leader?
VOLKERS: The way conditions were he had practically no influence. I do not know whether in the beginning the matter had already been legally settled. In practice, however, the Police and the State Secretary were completely independent from Herr Von Neurath regarding police measures. This had some connection with the situation in the Reich, where Himmler, too, led the entire Police and SS, having taken the police powers away from the Ministry of the Interior. As far as I can remember, the matter was legally settled in the autumn of 1939 to the effect that the Police was independent and that Herr Von Neurath was to be informed afterward of all measures taken.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: You mean by that the decree regarding the organization of the administration and the German Security Police in the Protectorate, under date of 1 September 1939?
VOLKERS: Yes, I think that is the one. The first part referred to the administration and the second part to the Police.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Mr. President, may I remind you that the wording of this decree is contained in my document book under Number Neurath-149.
THE PRESIDENT: It has been submitted as evidence?
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Yes. I merely wanted to remind you that I have presented it. [Turning to the witness.] Was Herr Von Neurath at least informed afterward, in accordance with the instructions, of the police actions which Frank carried out independently?
VOLKERS: The Chief of the Police was an SS man by the name of Bohme. He used to report to the Reich Protector several times each week. I do not believe that he informed him in advance of intended police actions. We never heard anything like that. Whether he reported such actions afterward and in their entirety is something which I cannot say. The rule was that the Reich Protector sent to him, for comment, the various petitions from the next of kin of Czechs who had been arrested and that Bohme would bring them along when he came to report. That was generally the way the Reich Protector was afterward informed.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Well then, when Herr Von Neurath was later on informed of such police measures, no matter in which way, did he make attempts for the suspension of arrests or for any limitation and mitigation of such police measures?
VOLKERS: As I have already told you, we had set up in the small office of the Reich Protector a special department for the purpose of receiving such applications. This department, which of course was directly under the jurisdiction of the Reich Protector, did everything possible in order to reassure the next of kin and to bring about the releases of the detained persons. The work was particularly difficult because these local departments, the local police chief and also State Secretary Frank, usually took a negative attitude. Again and again the Reich Protector would then appeal directly to Himmler and very often to the Fuehrer himself. I know and remember that there was a very excited correspondence with Himmler and that Herr Von Neurath repeatedly complained to the Fuehrer about this.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Witness, can you judge, or can you tell us how far Herr Von Neurath, as Reich Protector, apart from the Police and police measures, was free and independent in his political and economic measures and orders, or how far he was depending on Berlin when giving those?
VOLKERS: When I came to Prague there were all sorts of other offices beside that of the Reich Protector. For instance, there was a Reich Commissioner for Economy who, as far as I can remember and as I heard at the time, had already begun to exercise his functions when the Office of the Reich Protector had not yet been established. Then there was a Plenipotentiary for the Four Year Plan and there was the Armed Forces Plenipotentiary who had a large staff. Even the Party agencies were not centrally organized. Prague and the north belonged to the Sudetengau under Gauleiter Henlein; the whole of Moravia belonged to the Niederdonau Gau, under Gauleiter Dr. Jury; and the west belonged to a third Gaul All these Gauleiter tried, in turn, on their part...
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, this is all detail, is it not, and quite unnecessary detail?
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Do you know anything about Von Neurath's attitude toward numerous plans of germanizing the Czechs?
VOLKERS: No, I know nothing about that. I remember only that, right at the beginning of the war, Herr Von Neurath told me that the whole structure of the Protectorate was regarded by him as a temporary solution and that the peace would have to decide the ultimate fate of Czechoslovakia.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Well, then, as you probably remember, in the autumn of 1939 there were the first demonstrations in Prague on the occasion of the Independence Day of Czechoslovakia, on 28 October 1939.
VOLKERS: Well, I cannot remember the details. There were demonstrations on a Czech national holiday in October. As far as I can remember, they took place on the Wenzel Platz, and the Narodni-ulice. I, personally, did...
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: What do you know about the consequences of new demonstrations particularly on the part of the students at Prague when a wounded student died and was buried on 15 November? What do you know about these demonstrations and what happened immediately in the wake of these demonstrations?
VOLKERS: Previous to the second demonstration, as far as I remember, the instruction was given to exercise restraint. The demonstrations were generally, as I was told later, not particularly alarming. In spite of this, Frank had reported to Berlin about it. At any rate, the Reich Protector and Frank and General Friderici were called to Berlin for a conference with Hitler in the Reich Chancellery. I accompanied the Reich Protector at the time. Chvalkovsky, the Czech Minister in Berlin, was also invited. I was present when Hitler, in a very excited and rude manner, reproached the Minister because of the events, for which he was holding the Czech Government responsible. Whether the closing of universities was discussed on that occasion, I cannot remember, nor can I remember having heard him threaten the shooting or arrest of students. The manner in which Hitler treated the Minister was most embarrassing to us. The Minister then left the room without saying a single further word. As far as I can remember, the subject was then mentioned no further. We had lunch, and when saying goodby, Hitler said to Frank that he wanted to talk with him some more. Herr Von Neurath was not asked to stay and I remember that while walking home with him he was very angry about it. On the following day, I traveled back with Herr Von Neurath while Frank had already left the same night for Prague. I remember that when I came into the office in Prague, I saw a red poster declaring that because of the demonstrations, the shooting of the leaders and the arrest of students and the closing of universities had been ordered; that poster carried Neurath's signature. As I did not know what had happened in Prague in the meantime, I was utterly surprised, because I had heard nothing about these measures in Berlin; and I suspected an intrigue on Frank's part and went to report the matter to Neurath. I had the impression that Herr Von Neurath was deeply upset and just as unpleasantly surprised as I was and that he had known nothing at all about this previously.
VOLKERS: Soon afterward Frank passed through my room going into Neurath's room, carrying that red poster under his arm. I do not know whether Von Neurath had sent for him or whether he came on his own initiative.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Did Herr Von Neurath afterwards, at least after this unfortunate matter had occurred, use his influence for the release of these students who had been arrested?
VOLKERS: Yes. He immediately used his influence, but he did not even succeed in getting hold of the list of names of the arrested students. Only after urging the Czechs for a long time did we receive from the Czech Government an incomplete list of names. In spite of this, Herr Von Neurath immediately worked for their release; and he did, in fact, have excellent results in that connection as time went by.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: Do you know anything about what was done to accommodate or employ those students who, on account of these demonstrations and the subsequent closing of the universities, had more or less become idle?
VOLKERS: No, I know nothing about that, and I had nothing to do with that matter.
DR. VON LUDINGHAUSEN: But do you know whether Herr Von Neurath repeatedly urged Hitler to reopen the universities?
VOLKERS: Yes, I remember that the chancellor, named Rosny, of the Czech University, whom I knew well, had asked me once for that and I reported it to Herr Von Neurath and Herr Von Neurath again made efforts at the time; but as far as I know, as long as we were in Prague the universities were not reopened.