dtufail/nuremberg-trials-corpus huggingface dataset:
FRITZSCHE: No, I did not know of any such directive, but the fact that such statements and directives have been submitted in this courtroom has made me realize, I have said, that some of the premises of our propaganda have up foundation.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. You also had no knowledge either of the instructions issued by the OKW and signed by the Defendant Jodl regarding the carrying out of propaganda in the "Case Barbarossa"?
FRITZSCHE: I cannot say that without seeing these documents; the Case Barbarossa as such meant nothing to me until this Trial.
GEN. RUDENKO: Mr. President, this is Document Number C-26 and has already been submitted to the Tribunal. I will deal with it only in connection with the matter of propaganda. It is Exhibit USSR-477 in your document book, Mr. President, Document C-26. [Turning to the defendant.] I will quote one excerpt, Defendant. These instructions say: "Propaganda directed toward the dismemberment of the Soviet Union into single states is not to be used for the time being. In the various parts of the Soviet Union German propaganda must use that language which is most spoken. But this should not be done in such a way that the various propaganda texts might give the impression that it is intended to dismember the Soviet Union at an early date." Were you acquainted with these directives?
FRITZSCHE: I knew neither the document nor the contents of the directive which you have just read.
GEN. RUDENKO: Yes, but I hope you will not deny that this was the spirit in which the propaganda was carried on.
FRITZSCHE: No. As far as I could observe, the propaganda which was carried on in the Soviet Union had just the reverse tendency. It tried to educate the various nationalities, such as the Ukraine, White Russia, Baltic States, and so forth, for independence.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I would like to ask you now: When did you meet the Defendant Rosenberg for the first time, and when did you get his information concerning the tasks of German propaganda in the East? ..
FRITZSCHE: I doubt whether before this Trial I ever spoke with Herr Rosenberg, but I do believe I met him socially. However, never in my life have I had an official conversation with him.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. You will be handed Document Number 1039-PS. This is Rosenberg's report on the preparatory work concerning matters connected with the eastern countries. This document has already been submitted to the Defendant Rosenberg and he did not deny it, but confirmed it. I would like you to turn to the second quotation which is marked. In order to shorten this cross-examination, I will not read the whole quotation. This report states: "Apart from these negotiations"-about which we spoke before-"I received the responsible representatives of the entire propaganda organization, namely Ministerial Director Fritzsche, Minister Schmidt, Reich Superintendent of Broadcasting Glasmeier, Dr. Grothe for the OKW, and others. Without going into details as to political objectives, I instructed the above-mentioned persons in confidence about the necessary attitude, with the request to tone down the whole terminology of the press on uniform lines, without issuing any statements. "The schemes for dealing substantially with questions concerning the eastern countries, which were prepared a long time ago, have now been issued by my 'office and I have passed them on to the propaganda representatives." Did Defendant Rosenberg correctly describe these events which occurred in 1941, before the attack against the Soviet Union?
FRITZSCHE: No. I do not recall ever having been received by Rosenberg. In any case I never received before 22 June, from Rosenberg or from any of his colleagues, any report about the planned attack on the Soviet Union. On the other hand, and this perhaps may clarify matters, I do recall that a colleague of Rosenberg's frequently came to see me or my colleagues. I even recall his name; he was chief of a press group, Major Kranz, formerly an editor of the Volkischer Beobachter . This man frequently came to see me and my colleagues and transmitted certain wishes of Rosenberg's pertaining to press propaganda. But in any case this was not before 22 June.
GEN. RUDENKO: This means that as far as you are concerned what Rosenberg writes in his report is not true?
FRITZSCHE: Untrue would be saying too much. It may be that this information of which he talks refers to a later period of time. I cannot judge that, as I have not read the entire document. It may also be that Rosenberg, in this report, was not quite accurate when he mentions the reception of the responsible representatives of the entire propaganda organization.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. In this connection I would like to put two questions to you. First of all, I would like to refer to the written testimony of Hans Voss, which is Document USSR-471, and which you already have. It is Excerpt Number 3 of Document USSR-471. Have you found it?
FRITZSCHE: Yes, I have found it.
GEN. RUDENKO: I quote: "After the defeat of the German troops at Stalingrad and after the start of the general Soviet offensive on the whole Eastern Front) Goebbels and Fritzsche took great pains to shape German propaganda in such a way as to help Hitler very effectively in mastering the situation at the front. This propaganda was based on the hope that the Germans would succeed in holding out for a long time. There was an attempt to frighten the German population by disseminating calumnious reports of the brutal acts of the Russian soldiers and the intention of the Soviet Union to annihilate the German nation. "In the last stage of the war the propaganda conducted by Goebbels and Fritzsche made one last attempt to serve Hitler and to organize resistance to Soviet troops." Is that correct?
FRITZSCHE: It is not only incorrect, it is nonsense.
GEN. RUDENKO: You frequently used such terminology. Obviously it is a sign of a professional practice. All right, I do not' intend to enter into polemics with you. I would like you to take a look at your testimony of 12 September 1945. It is the third excerpt of the Document USSR-474. Have you found that passage? I will quote your explanations concerning this question.
FRITZSCHE: All of them are not my statements. What passage are you referring to, sir?
GEN. RUDENKO: I mean marked Excerpt Number 3, which begins with the words, "The military aggression against the Soviet Union."
FRITZSCHE: Yes.
GEN. RUDENKO: Please pay attention: "Since we had a treaty with the Soviet Union the military attack on the Soviet Union was prepared by Germany in secret. Therefore, during the period of preparation for war against the Soviet Union, no propaganda was carried on. Accordingly, the German propaganda authorities did not begin active anti-Soviet propaganda until after the war started on the Eastern Front. "It must be added that the main task to which Goebbels set the whole propaganda machinery was to justify Germany's expansionist policy toward the Soviet Union. "From this point of view, as chief of the German press and radio, I organized a vast campaign of anti-Soviet propaganda, attempting to convince the public at large that the Soviet Union and not Germany was the guilty party in this war. I must, however, state that we had no documentary basis for accusing the Soviet Union of preparing an armed attack on Germany. "In my radio talks I tried especially to instill fear of the horrors of Bolshevism in the hearts of the peoples of Europe and the German population. Thus I asserted that only Fascist Germany was the protective barrier for the European countries against Anglo-American 'plutocracy' and 'Red imperialism.' " Do you admit this?
FRITZSCHE: Here again actual statements made by me have been distorted. If I may, I want to give you the factual basis briefly for the various points. It is correct to say that I stated in Moscow that the war against the Soviet Union had not been prepared for by propaganda, because this war came very suddenly and as a surprise. Furthermore, it is correct to say that after the attack on the Soviet Union it was the main task of German propaganda to justify the necessity of this attack; therefore we had to emphasize again and again that we had merely forestalled a Soviet attack. Further, it is correct that I said that the next task for propaganda was to show that not Germany but Russia was guilty of this war, which amounts to practically the same thing. Unfortunately the most important argument which I quoted is omitted from this record, namely, that I and with me millions of Germans believed the official communiqués given out by the German Government because it would have seemed to us nonsensical and crazy if in the middle of a war which had not yet been decided in the West, we wantonly and willfully risked another war in the East. I continue. It is also correct that the evidence given in the White Book published by the Foreign Office at the time was rather meager and it is furthermore correct to say that German propaganda wanted to make Europe afraid of Bolshevism. It is finally correct that German propaganda again and again emphasized the fact that Germany was the only bulwark against the Soviet world revolution.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I would now like to draw your attention to Excerpt Number 4 of the same document, which is in your possession, in connection with propaganda to keep alive the spirit of resistance in the German people, notwithstanding all evidence of Germany's obvious defeat. I would like to read this very short Excerpt Number 4 from the same document Number USSR-474. I quote: "Beginning in 1943 I tried my best to assert through German radio propaganda that Germany was in possession of weapons which would shake the power of our enemies. For this I used invented data regarding the output of the German war industry which had been given me by the Reich Minister for Munitions, Speer." Is that right?
FRITZSCHE: One part is wrong and the other part that is correct has been wrongly stated. To begin with the latter part: It is correct that I received figures from the Ministry for Armaments and War Production which gave me great hopes for progress. I received, for instance, figures dealing with monthly aircraft production, figures dealing with new and especially effective fighter planes. In the meantime, through direct questioning of Speer himself, I have ascertained that the figures which I received were quite correct at the time and that the airplanes either were used wrongly, as, for instance, in the Ardennes offensive instead of for the protection of the home country, or that they could not be used because of the gasoline shortage. The first half however...
GEN. RUDENKO: You are going too much into details, Defendant Fritzsche. You are going into a lot of details which have already been dealt with here and which have nothing to do with you. I would like to submit to you the testimony of Speer, who was interrogated by the Soviet prosecutor here in Nuremberg on 14 November 1945. I submit this document as USSR-492. I would like to read into the record only that part of the document which deals with the carrying out of propaganda during this particular period. I quote: "In September 1944 I wrote a letter to Dr. Goebbels . . . In this letter I warned Goebbels that it was wrong to keep on giving out propaganda about new V-weapons, for in this way he would merely arouse vain hopes in the German people. This was secret propaganda which was carried out by Dr. Goebbels in order to inspire in the German people the hope of a favorable outcome of the war." Is that correct?
FRITZSCHE: Only partially. It is a fact that Dr. Goebbels, more than a year before the use of the first V-weapon, himself made propaganda with it. On the other hand, Speer in the meantime has stated in his testimony here that he now knows the actual source of the propaganda dealing with "miracle weapons," namely Standartenfuehrer Schwarz van Berk. Finally, Dr. Goebbels in the last months of 1944, likewise tried to stifle this "miracle weapon" propaganda which he himself had once instigated.
GEN. RUDENKO: Now, I would like to remind you of the part you played in this propaganda. You propagandized these new weapons to instill in the hearts of the German people the hope of a successful resistance. I submit to you Document USSR-496. You already have it. It is your radio speech of 1 July 1944.
THE PRESIDENT: General, are you going to finish very soon or shall we adjourn now?
GEN. RUDENKO: I believe we should adjourn now, Mr. President, because I will still need about half an hour. [A recess was taken.]
GEN. RUDENKO: Well, Excerpt Number 6 from Document USSR-496 has been submitted to you. It is your speech, dated 1 July 1944. I am going to read it into the record: "We Germans have been very reserved in our reports on the effect of the new weapons. We could afford this reserve, knowing that sometime or other Britain would break the silence with which she tried at first to gloss over the effect of the V-1. We were right about it. Reports from Britain during the last few days, and especially today, prove that the effects of the first thrusts with the new weapon are becoming all too obvious.- It is completely beside the point for the British to complain now about the wave of hatred which is supposed to surge from Germany against the British Isles. In the fifth year of the war it is useless to talk about feelings, although much could be said about this." Do you admit, Defendant Fritzsche, that by means of such propaganda you duped the German people and incited them to senseless resistance?
FRITZSCHE: On the contrary, in this case I spoke much more reservedly and much more modestly than, for instance, the German press did about the results of the V-1. For that matter the very next sentence following your quotation reads, "We can only repeat that for us the V-1 is the means with which we can break the enemy terror."
GEN. RUDENKO: Now I should like to remind you, Defendant Fritzsche, of your testimony of 12 September 1945 with regard to the activity of the Werewolf organization. This document is Exhibit USSR-474, Excerpt Number 5. Have you found it?
FRITZSCHE: Yes, I have found it.
GEN. RUDENKO: I am going to read it: "At the end of February 1945 the State Secretary in the German Ministry of Propaganda, Dr. Naumann, sent on to me instructions from Goebbels to work out a plan for the organization of a secret broadcasting station. In reply to my question as to why this broadcasting station was needed, Naumann explained that the German Government had made the decision to transfer members of the ,NSDAP to an illegal secret organization called 'Werewolf.' Naumann also revealed that all these illegal Werewolf groups would be directed by means of this broadcasting station, which I was to establish." As can be seen by your testimony you were opposed to the organization of this radio station and you spoke about it with Goebbels. In spite of this, the station was created, and the former chief of the Reich Propaganda Office, Schlesinger, was given the task of directing the broadcasts. Is that correct?
FRITZSCHE: No. Two things have been mixed up here. Firstly, the plan described in the paragraph which you have read for the creation of a Werewolf broadcasting station was a plan for a mobile station and that mobile station was not built. On the other hand- incidentally, it happened during my absence-on 1 April 1945, by direct order from Dr. Goebbels, the so-called "Old German Broadcasting Station" was opened as a Werewolf station.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I do not want to argue with you about it and I should like to submit to you your own speech broadcast on 7 April 1945. It is the same Document USSR-496, Excerpt Number 7. Have you found it?
FRITZSCHE: Yes.
GEN. RUDENKO: At that time you broadcasted as follows: "However, as a result of superiority in manpower and material reserves, the enemy has now penetrated deep into German territory, and at this moment is about to carry out his program of extermination directed against us." I am skipping a few lines: "Let no one be surprised if this desire of strong hearts to avenge oppressed human beings does not even need a short respite for temporary recovery, but leaps suddenly and unexpectedly into flame and becomes active. Let no one be surprised if here and there in unoccupied areas civilians take part in the fight or even if, after the occupation has been carried out, the fight is continued by civilians, that is to say, if without preparation and without organization, there comes into being, springing from the pure instinct of self-preservation, that phenomenon which we call the 'Werewolf.' " Well, what can you tell us now?
FRITZSCHE: Although this quotation also has been torn from its context, I recognize it verger well. Unfortunately the passage is missing in which I spoke of right and said, "Right is a sensitive concept which has its roots in tradition and ethical consciousness." At present...
GEN. RUDENKO: Excuse me if I interrupt you, Defendant. I did not ask you for such detailed explanations. I just wanted to determine the fact that you not only explained what the organization was, but also did your utmost to foster the Werewolf organization. Is that correct?
FRITZSCHE: That is absolutely incorrect. This is certainly not propaganda for the Werewolf; it is in apology for cases of Werewolf activity.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. Let us drop that subject. I should like to ask you, do you know who the head of the Werewolf organization was?
FRITZSCHE: That has already been stated here. At the very head of it was Bormann. Under him there was a Higher SS Leader whose name I tried in vain to remember during my interrogations in Moscow. I knew one of his associates, however, and that was Gunter d'Alquen.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. Before putting the last few questions to you, I should like to ask you, is it not a fact that Rosenberg and Streicher had great influence on German propaganda?
FRITZSCHE: Their influence was negligible. Streicher had no influence at all on official German propaganda and Rosenberg only to an extent which was not noticeable to me.
GEN. RUDENKO: All right. I still have a few questions to put to you. You told the High Tribunal that had you known Hitler's decrees for the murdering of people you would never have followed Hitler. Did I understand you correctly?
FRITZSCHE: You have understood me perfectly correctly.
GEN. RUDENKO: Now, in other words, I understand you to say that you would have gone against Hitler?
FRITZSCHE: It is hard to say what I would have done. Of course, this is a question about which I have now thought a great deal.
GEN. RUDENKO: I should like to ask you, if, as you stated here to the High Tribunal, at the beginning of 1942 you received information that in one of the regions in the Ukraine, which was at the time occupied by the Germans, an extermination of the Jews and the Ukraine intelligentsia was being prepared, simply because they were Jews and members of the Ukrainian intelligentsia? Did you receive such information? Is that correct?
FRITZSCHE: That is correct.
GEN. RUDENKO: That was in the beginning. In May of 1942 you were with the 6th Army, and in the 6th Army you learned about the existence of an order to shoot the Soviet commissars; is that right?
FRITZSCHE: Yes.
GEN. RUDENKO: You considered that this bloody order should not be applied? Is that right?
FRITZSCHE: That is right.
GEN. RUDENKO: You knew that this order emanated from Hitler?
FRITZSCHE: Yes, I could imagine that.
GEN. RUDENKO: That is to say, in 1942 you knew already that Hitler's order to murder existed and yet you followed him?
FRITZSCHE: You are comparing two things which are not comparable. There is quite a difference, not treating commissars as prisoners of war and giving an order for the killing of 5 million Jews.
GEN. RUDENKO: Then, if I understand you correctly, the fact that you did not go against Hitler, meant that you considered such an order to be permissible in the conduct of the war by the German Army?
FRITZSCHE: No; I considered it was an impossible order; and that is why I opposed it, and not only passively as others did.
GEN. RUDENKO: But you continued to support Hitler?
FRITZSCHE: Yes.
GEN. RUDENKO: Here is the last question. Tell me, during the war, did you ever concern yourself with the question of preparations for biological warfare?
FRITZSCHE: Never. l
GEN. RUDENKO: Did you ever hear the name of a certain Major Von Passavant?
FRITZSCHE: Yes, I know that name.
GEN. RUDENKO: He was the representative of the OKW in the Ministry of Propaganda, was he not?
FRITZSCHE: No, he was not. He was a radio expert in the Propaganda Department of the OKW.
GEN. RUDENKO: A copy of a letter of 19 October 1944 will be submitted to you. This letter bears your facsimile signature, and it is directed to Major Von Passavant of the OKW. This is a short document, and I am going to read it to you: '`To the Chief of Broadcasting, Major Von Passavant, OKW: "A listener, factory owner Gustav Otto, Reichenberg, has sent me the enclosed sketch with the proposal to carry out biological warfare. I am submitting this to you with the request that you forward it to the proper office. "Hell Hitler. Fritzsche." Do you remember this document?
FRITZSCHE: Of course I do not remember it. At the same time I want to state that I have no doubt that it is genuine.
GEN. RUDENKO: Very well. I should like to put the last question to you: This shows that you were in favor of the planning and the carrying through by Germany of biological warfare, is that correct? I have finished, Mr. President.
FRITZSCHE: But I must have an opportunity to answer the last question. I wish to state that I was by no means in favor of biological warfares but the situation was merely this: Every day piles of letters came in from listeners and these were passed on by one of the departments to the office competent to deal with the matter concerned and the accompanying letter, which consisted of two or three lines, was submitted to me for signature. As a rule I did not read the contents of the letters.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Fritz, do you want to re-examine?
DR. FRITZ: Herr Fritzsche, just now during General Rudenko's cross-examination you were asked about the radio speech of 2 May 1940 in which you spoke about your journey to Norway. Can you tell me more exactly when you went on that trip?
FRITZSCHE: I am afraid I cannot tell you the date exactly, but if I am not mistaken it was at the end of April.
DR. FRITZ: The official report of the Norwegian Government on war damage after Norway's occupation by the Germans was put to you. Here it is said that the fighting which had caused this damage could not have taken place until after you had already completed your journey. Is that true?
FRITZSCHE: That is quite possible, but I should like to say this: In the extract which the Russian prosecutor has read without quoting the beginning, I described precisely what I had seen in clearly stated places; Lillehammer and Godenthal are a few names which occur to me now. To compare these statements now with the statements made by the Norwegian Government regarding the total damage is nothing less than the attempt to measure a liquid with a yard measure or vice versa.
DR. FRITZ: I have one other question in this connection. Was this journey of yours carried out before the British landing in Norway or afterward?
FRITZSCHE: I myself had an opportunity to watch a fight with British troops. I think it was just south of a place called Ottar in the Buldrenthal.
DR. FRITZ: Mr. President, General Rudenko, during his crossexamination, submitted three interrogation records. One was from Voss, USSR-471, one from Schorner, USSR-472, and one from Stahel USSR-473. In the meantime I have looked through these three records and I should like to ask the High Tribunal also to compare these three records. Shave ascertained that in these three records, of the statements of three different persons, parts of the answers are repeated; and they tally, word for word. It says, for example . . .
THE PRESIDENT: You are not getting this from the witness; you are making an argument to us, and you must do that at some other time.