Would you like to work together? Depends on what you're thinking.  As Germany, I think England makes the most sense as an ally.  Regardless of how the early game goes, I have to deal with some combination of England, France, and Russia within a few years.  France and Russia can help against England, but  not against each other, while England can help against both of the other two.

I'm definitely open to working together, but my main questions for you: what does your contact with France or Russia look like?  Are you looking for a 3-party alliance, or just two?  What's your initial vision of how this will go, especially considering the 1910 deadline? I have reached out to France and am hoping for a three-way alliance between us. I have not spoken with Russia, and he has not spoken with me either.

I see myself going through Scandinavia and northern Russia, yourself going through southern Russia and Austria, and France will take the Mediterranean. I'm not closed off to the possibility, but I'm not thrilled at the prospect of an alliance with both you and France.  If with you, I'd much prefer that we split Scandinavia and then you focus on the Atlantic and Med.  If you land armies in Russia...well, that makes me an easy stab, while the reverse is not even close to true.

The concern about you flowing through Russia also explains my concern with the E/G/F combo, except even more so.

I'm not trying to be contrary, but I don't have the luxury of setting my back against a wall like you do. By the way, have you heard anything from France? You bring up some very good points. I'm willing to team up against France. Also, France has offered a DMZ in the English Channel. France wants me to bounce in Burgundy, and is acting (I assume?) all upset that I might move to the Ruhr.

What if I offered you Denmark - fleet only, no convoy -  for the first season only.  I'd take it back in 1902 barring something unexpected.  But if you're in the Channel and North Sea this spring, you could convoy into France while I take Holland and Belgium.  Brest and both Iberian centers are yours.  We'll figure out Norway, Sweden, Paris, and Marsailles based on how this shakes out.

My spring would be
Kie-Hol
Mun-Ruh
Ber-Mun

Yours would be to Eng & Nth, and sit with 1 build and an army in Picardy (presumably).

What do you think? https://www.backstabbr.com/sandbox/6203125562605568 I think that could work. Let's go for it! The incentivized lying makes me reluctant to believe you.  But since that's true of everyone...I'm game. Well, what do you think about how the spring went?  I wasn't psyched about the move to Picardy, but everything else in the west went fine.  Are you convoying to Pic/Brest and taking Norway/Denmark?

Austria is getting hit from all sides, which is never good for Germany, and Russia has the drop on both Austria and Turkey.  I'm on good terms with him (to protect my backdoor) with a short NAP, but if he gets a quick jump it could be trouble.

I was originally thinking you should convoy to France, but I'm wondering if that's a long term problem.  You might want to convoy to Norway.  I'm not trying to say what's best for you, just thinking about the mid- to long-term picture.

Definitely would like to hear your thoughts. Also, one other thought:
Russia and Turkey may be working together.  I haven't talked to them yet, but I'd be very unsurprised to see Con-AEG and A Bul S a Russian BLA C A Ank-Rum.

If they're not working together, that means Russia opened hostile to BOTH Austria and Turkey, which is crazy because it basically forces them to band together.  I might warn Italy... What are you thinking for the fall? I was looking at his board, and all I could think was that he *has* to have a build.  That means he has to cover Brest & take Portugal/Spain.  So you should be able to convoy to Picardy.

I think. That sounds good to me. I will do  that. So...three builds for the Cossack.  This may be a problem.  He approached me about making sure that I fend you off.  That was interesting, since all we have is a non-aggression pact.  But note that part of our deal was that he can't build in Warsaw.  That means you'll probably see F StP/nc.  I'm going to build a fleet to make sure we don't lose control of Scandinavia.

You may need to focus north more than planned.  I'm not looking to take any more than Demark, and I'm not going to break my NAP, but I can get into Denmark and the Baltic and lock him down. I haven't heard anything else from France, but if I don't help Austria this is going to be a very short game.  We're 2 turns in and Austria and Turkey are both on the mat.  They can slow Russia down if they work together - and it looks like they will - except Italy is making that a problem.

I'm hamstrung by my NAP.  I need to pressure Italy to help Austria.  I was planning on doing it through France, but that will be far too slow.  Tyrolia?  Likely bounce, but it may buy some time.

How do you want to handle France?  Dibs on Paris and Marsailles.  We can't let him up off the mat, but if you can't absorb Russian attention we're sunk.

I'm planning F Kie-BAL and A Ber-Kie, then lock up Denmark no matter what.  But these next couple moves have to be perfect. Ehhh, I'm not sure what I'm going to do with that fleet, actually.  Let me think about it and let you know.  Open to input.

By the way, if you're thinking of teaming up with Russia (or already have, said Germany, looking at the build in the Irish Sea) look at the board.  He has a clear path to a solo, and can cross the stalemate lines at StP right now, so they're of no concern.  He already has you 2-1 in the north, and Turkey and Austria will both be Russian by the end of 1903.

He told me he's not looking to solo because it'd be too hard to do with the 1910 limit.  With a big early jump, the smart money says that thought turns into seeing it as a challenge. Can you please have your A Pic S Bel-Bur? NM about that either, actually.  Nothing is quite right yet. Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what to do at the moment. Russia contacted me about leaving each other alone, so the fleet in stp is somewhat of a surprise. I'm thinking I move from eng to nth and moving  lvp to iri.  I'm willing to support bel to but if you change your mind about that. We're in a tough position, though. I know it's late.  But if you bump Paris and move Eng-MAO you assure Brest in the fall, since I can move to Paris to break any support. France just contacted me. He believes that we should all work to stop the obviously powerful Russia. He suggested working with you to get pic south, but I don't think that will work very well. Do you have any ideas? What I think you should do is move Eng to Nth, convince Germany to let you move Bel(you wouldn't be taking it though, just moving through), and then convoy Bel to Nwy where you could really fight russia - from France What do you think about that plan? I've been talking with France.  As I said, I'd like to walk away from him.  Give him the Iberian, recommend that he build to go to the Med. As you know, I have my suspicions that you're working with Russia.  Nature of the game.

So I'm not psyched about having you waltz through Belgium in a position to support a hold or misorder or even move to Holland.

That said, I'm open to some very fast brainstorming. That's understandable. Something else we might do is destroy my unit in pic so I could build an additional fleet, but that wouldn't be viable until the fall. I prefer doing that in the Fall, yes.  It puts us all a turn behind when he has a second fleet in the North already. A Bel - Ruh
A Ber - Kie
F Hol - HEL
F Kie - BAL
A Mun - Tyr So do you want me to move to bel so that I can convoy? Sure.  *Gulp* Alright. Placing my orders. Right.  Don't forget to save.  🙄 Good stuff. I'm retreating to ska so we can take swe. I didn't like that at first, but after further consideration, I do.  You're not going to be convoying anywhere just yet.  I'm thinking you stay in Belgium, but support Hel-Den from the North Sea and have F SKA S BAL C Kie-Swe?  The only way he stops that is...if he  has Norway supports Sweden holding, I think?  Or uses Sweden to support Norway to SKA, I guess.  But in that case he still loses Sweden, and you retreat to BAL. If we didn't need the centers so badly I'd convoy to Livonia anyway. Yup.  Okay, gotta run now. I think something that would work better is if you took SWE with BAL. That way I could break the support in NWY with NTH, and you could take DEN with either HEL or KIE. What do you think about that? Hmm.  He knows he can't save Sweden, so he may be resigned to losing it.  Assume that's true, and also that he doesn't think we'll bother to support into Norway because we can't take it.  What does he do? I desperately want to convoy, but it's fall, so if he gets a build it will be...not futile, but less impactful.

Right now in the South he's -1 in Austria.  He's facing a guessing game on whether he'll be -2 there, but most likely he'll be -2 in the area and +1 in Turkey.  Then +1 in Norway to offset.

I don't see any way he gets a build.

That being the case, the value of A Lvn is far more than a build for me and a disband for him.  Both of us will be even, as will he.  But A Lvn demands 3 units to defend.  It cripples him in the Balkans, and since I can break his support from StP we lock down all of Scandinavia next year. Alright, let's do that then. You convoy to lvn, and I support hel to den. So...

England
A Bel H
F NAO - NWG
F NTH S HEL - Den
F SKA S HEL - Den

Germany
F BAL C Kie - Lvn
F HEL - Den
A Kie - Lvn

? Yes, that works great. Cool.  Done. I only have a thumbs-down option on one of my messages... reposting: That assures Denmark, and the only real risk is that he moves Swe S Nor SKA, and StP-Nor.  Very unlikely that he's going to risk not getting Norway, though. Anyway, done.  Now to figure out what to do with Tyrolia and Ruhr... I was wrong, and you were right.  We have to take Sweden.  It's a long shot for Turkey and Austria to be able to offset him taking Norway, and an army in Lvn isn't going to be much good if he can build. https://www.backstabbr.com/sandbox/5538733581926400

I think that's the winner.
You lose Norway, gain Sweden and Belgium.
I lose Belgium, gain Denmark.
Russia gains Norway and Ankara, loses Sweden, and Budapest.
Austria gains Budapest, loses Serbia
Turkey gains Serbia, loses Ankara.

You get one build, all else washes. I thank you for your offer to support me into Sweden, this way I'm still in BAL and in position to convoy from Kiel or head to Munich, plus my fleet in Denmark is there to close the deal in Scandinavia.  You could send your other fleet to NWG, BAR, or swing south to help in the med.  We'll have 4 fleets to secure NWY/Sweden, and an army on the way to force his army to pull away.

...as long as he can't get a build. Check my thinking, and send other ideas. Your thinking sounds good to me. The only question is do you want swe or do you want me to have swe? I can support myself into Denmark and ensure I don't need to disband.  I'll take Sweden when you take Norway next year? BTW, I like France, but he's a threat to stab with nowhere to grow.  Which is the other reason I'm suggesting that you take Sweden - just in case Belgium. Just updated & saved:
F BAL S SKA - Swe
F HEL - Den
A Kie S HEL - Den
A Ruh - Mun
A Tyr - Tri

As long as you bump Norway and move Hel-Swe, we should be good. Alright, sounds good. Russia is reaching out to me about turning on you.  I assume the reverse is also true.  Don't buy it.

The reality is that he's totally on the ropes right now.  Scandinavia is lost to him, and with France and I starting to pressure Italy and Austria about done, Turkey is already matching his 7 centers and in a much better position both to grow and to stab.

I misread the Turkey relationship - alarm bells were going off, but that was a helluva lot of trust for a game that is (supposedly?) blind.  Given that I'm not confident that it *is* blind, we have to assume that they're acting as one power.

All of which is just a mush of thoughts, but I want to pass them to France as well to spur discussion.  I don't want him to feel left out and get antsy.  Especially when he has to build at Brest. Russia actually hasn't spoken to me. Not since the beginning of the game. Ideas on what I should build? I'm thinking fleet in edi. Okay, so this year we need to lock Norway down, ideally with a British army, make sure France is fully on board, figure out what's up with Italy, and penetrate east.

I think the clearest thing is that you take Norway in the Spring, and from Sweden.  He can't stop it, and with my Den-SKA he's left only with a retreat to BAL.

You'd then need to get the army in there in the fall.  We position in the spring and do the same with a convoy in the fall as well.  But to do that you need to stay in Sweden, which isn't a good use of a fleet - as it stands, Italy can legitimately be in the channel by winter. Alright, I'll attack nwy with swe and support from my fleets. Next phase I can convoy from Bel. If you can, I think you should move to ska so that his unit gets destroyed. I'm moving to SKA, but my guess is that he'll retreat to BAL.  He might disband anyway, but I doubt it. F BAL C Kie - Lvn
F Den - SKA
A Kie - Lvn
A Mun - Sil
A Tyr S Mar - Pie You are there, right?  I get that it didn't affect much that you hung out on your party barges near the North Pole, but we really need that convoy to Norway, along with vacating Sweden.

Are we good? I entered my orders and made sure I updated them. I'm not entirely sure what happened. I'll convoy this phase. Okay.  I'm taking Sweden, though.

Maybe we sell it as a stab?  I'll bump StP, or take it if he gives up on Norway and moves that army. France needs a build.  How do you feel about giving up Belgium? we F BAL - Swe

A Lvn - Stp

A Mun - Sil

F SKA S BAL - Swe

A Tyr S Pie - Ven ...unless I hear otherwise. Sounds good Sweden is yours next year - apologies for the miscalculation.

It will be interesting to see where Russia disbands.  He either is open to one of us, or just *begging* for Turkey to smell the solk and stab. I was thinking something like:
F Fin - Stp/sc
F NTH - Nwy
F NWG - BAR
A Nwy S Fin - Stp/sc

Germany:
A Lvn - Mos
A Mun/Ber ?
A Sil - Gal
F SKA - Den
F Swe - BOT
A Tyr S Mun - Boh

This gets a fleet into StP instead of an army, but it's a lock rather than a hope.  I'd leave Sweden in the fall if that move doesn't succeed...and start scrambling to protect my home centers.

What do you think? That sounds good to me! No, I think that's broken because of the disband and build.  I'll give it some thought, and I'd welcome your thoughts. Well, I like the moves you have for me, except the f nth - nwy, that would disrupt my attack, so I was thinking f nth s nwy.  I also like the moves you gave planned out for yourself. So whatever you want to change, let me know what you're doing and I'll tell you what I think. So that was interesting.  I'm actually not that bad off as long as France and Russia aren't coordinating, and more importantly, as long as you aren't with France.

Since clearly France can't be trusted, and obviously he'll have to come for you at some point to go for the win, maybe a convoy to Belgium is in order?  You can hold StP easily, get 2 builds, prevent France from getting any, and change the balance of power pretty dramatically.

If you really trust France you could also convoy to Holland and take a stab at crippling me permanently - he'll get +1 or +2, you'll get +2.  Though you risk bouncing with France if he gets greedy.  But if he builds, and you see a F Mar, you're in for a rough go.  If it's me, convoy to Belgium is the smarter play.  I don't even see it as a stab on your end - our alliance was three-way, and it is broken.  If you weren't in on it, it's broken for all of us. In either case, it's probably not a great idea to try to force your way into Russia via StP.  You've got it, and can hold it easily - there's a reason it's part of the stalemate lines.  You need to grow as fast as you can, or you're just waiting for a knife.  I was waiting for Turkey to stab Russia to give you an opening.  It didn't come, so I tried to force it and opened myself.  But if Turkey stabs now he'll collapse too quickly for you to get (or at least get with any chance to defend) more than one more center.

I would strongly consider figuring out lines and conditions with Russia so you can both dedicate your forces elsewhere.  And I say that knowing that a highly likely place for Russia to dedicate forces is at me.  But since the second most likely (and possibly first) is at Turkey, which takes a partner from France, it's worth the risk.

What's on your mind? As I look at what I just wrote, I am going to cut/paste it to Russia to facilitate discussions among the three of us. Are you still willing to work together? I never intended to use you as a meatshield, and hoped to remain allies with you to the end. Once I have Scandinavia locked down (which should be shortly) I will begin to redirect forces to assist you against France. I've got no problem with that.  I can make things tricky for awhile, I think.  I haven't actually looked at the adjudication, though. So, can we agree that we all need to put everything aside and stop Turkey?  He's 3 away from the solo...

I know I can't do much, but I can support y'all as needed and do whatever else I can.

(Sending to all remaining powers that aren't Turkey) Yes, that's the case I'm moving lvn to pru. You should support this move, as well as defend yourself in bur. This is to help prevent the ottoman advance. I was thinking A Ber - Sil
F Kie - BAL

with

F BAL - BOT
F Nwy - Stp/nc
F Pru S Stp - Lvn
A Stp - Lvn

and

A Hol - Ruh
A Mun - Boh
A Pie - Tyr
F Tun S TYS - ION
A Tus - Rom
F TYS - ION

I think Munich is safe no matter what happens (except if he vacates Bohemia).
St Petersburg is most likely locked down.
He expects you to move to Venice.  My guess is that he'll support himself on.  Let him.  You'll either slide into Rome or stop his fleet from doing the same.
Your fleet in TYS is protected.
I get to build an army, which should be the nail in the coffin of his chances to take a centre north of Switzerland.

Thoughts? That sounds good to me Can you defend Prussia? Bal defend bur and all else defend min? Mun* Works for me.  I was hoping to get Munich back to close the game out, but... You could talk to France about that, but it doesn't really matter. You're still alive and that's the important thing. Would have been easy to do last turn.  A little harder now...