Hi there Germany!  We can both agree that one of us dying early doesn’t bode well for the other, right?  Want to establish a “intelligence sharing pact” to help make sure some early stability for each other means we can both survive into the mid-game where perhaps we can actually coordinate? Yes I’d like that. Currently England has suggested they would like to be my ally and Italy wants Tyr to remain empty. So if Italy is asking *both* of us to leave TRL empty, you know what that probably means? :/ What information do you have? No proof, just that Italy asked for a DMZ in TRL, but England says they haven’t discussed going after France together, which makes me think Italy is trying to keep TRL open so they can walk in there themselves.  Not sure though.  Also heard Russia is probably moving south as usual (but to be used with me against Turkey, or against me with Turkey? Only time will tell!) Any word from France? France has had limited communication trying to get me to not be aggressive toward them. I will plan to leave an army in Mun to dissuade Italy from going to Tyr. I’ll let them know that if they more there I’ll use that army to work with you against them. Italy seems committed to avoiding Tyr. Do you have any interest in working with them against Turkey? Perhaps Italy is truly willing to avoid Trl.  It’s always hard to tell before the first moves come out.  I’m happy to work worth them if they aim towards Turkey instead of towards me. I’ll be in Mun to back you up if they are lying to us. Any chance of you being interested in convincing Italy to lepanto? If you want to move Mun, you can always move it back there in the Fall in case Italy lied, so if I were you I’d make better use of it: I like Mun-Ruh in Spring 01: you have a say in who gets Bel, or you can guarantee Hol, and you’re still right next to Mun in case Italy is in TRL or France goes to Bur. I’m negotiating with Italy about working with them in the east, yes, and it hinges on us both agreeing to leave Trl empty, yes I get there might be better uses. And I might do that if you come to a good agreement with Italy for the east and feel confident in them. It’s imperative to me that you stay alive or I’ll probably get eaten by the east. So let me know how talks with them go and I may change orders. So it looks like Italy was trustworthy, England is cutthroat, and France is... weird?  You going to work with England against France, or the other way around? I can’t figure France out. I think they must be very new to the game. They agreed to dmz EC though as far as I know so England is going straight for them. France told me you had EC as dmz and I wasn’t openly aggressive so I’ll pretend like I’m going to side with them to get their orders. Ok, all I hear from France is they're sending Pie-Mar, which is probably the truth.  What are you thoughts on Russia?  Going to let them have Swe (for a likely second build) or hold them smaller in the north for now?  I can probably be fine either way, but would like to have some idea which to plan for... France wants me to join them against Italy. I want Italy to go east but toward Turkey. Definitely not toward you since you cover my weak spots from Russia and Turkey. I think I’ll bounce Russia in Sweden. Don’t see a reason not to and that’ll hold off a build for them. I haven’t heard much from them, very direct about answering only what I am asking them. Where did you hear about France’s move? France told me directly that they were moving back away from Venice.  I don't see any reason why they'd lie to me about that, since I'm the one who could help them right now if they asked (and if I wanted to, which I don't, but they didn't even ask). Italy *is* most likely going east against the Turk, as long as France is off their back, and I don't attack them (I don't intend to attack Italy, that's crazy for Austria in the early game). Right. So do you know if Italy is aware of France pulling back? Italy asked me if it was ok if they hung around in Venice for now, to watch and see if France really did pull away.  I told them of course it was ok, and that I appreciated them letting me know they'd still be sitting right next to Trieste.  So I think Italy and I are at least being pretty up front about what we're doing.  I don't think Italy knows if they can trust France after France just walked into Piedmont, and will prefer to see how it shakes out. Good to hear. I’d like it if us central powers could remain open. I plan to move out of Mun but am not sure where yet as France and England are talking to me about different options. Cool.  I don't see how France has much to offer you at this point (support into Belgium, I guess?), but I can see the appeal of Burgundy - France kinda collapses if they lose that line, but once they've picked up builds from Spain + Portugal, it gets wayyyy harder. Absolutely. They can’t get both builds in Iberia that soon because of their current locations. But I also don’t want England to stab me in the process either. England seems like an aggressive player, but a good one, and IMO, a good player in England’s position has far more to gain by a concerted attack *with* you against France than just stabbing you with no clear help.  France tells me they’re going Pie back to Mar, so consider that in your planning if it’s helpful. I appreciate the help. I’ll consider that. Let me know what you want to do after builds. I think if you’re not busy with Turkey we could start thinking about Russia. Are you thinking about opening up a two front war, in France *and* Russia?  That has ... historically not gone well for Germany! No not in the near future, I’ve seen how it plays out. Just like to get ideas of what you’re thinking earlier rather than later. Did Turkey hold for all of their units? Or just not submit orders? This is my first time playing on backstabbr. Turkey says they messed up the "submit" button somehow (it's easy to do, actually - very frustrating when you don't verify that they're really submitted), so held by accident.  But it basically means they're kinda toast at this point - I'll probably go with Russia and Italy against them at least for a short time. That’s too bad. Leaves them a sitting duck. However, once you've subdued France a bit, and I've shrunk Turkey down to a manageable size, I think *then* is the right time to focus our combine attention on Russia.  In the meantime, you and England should definitely make sure to keep them contained in the north. Speaking of England, one thing annoying about E/G alliances is that you really only have this one chance to build a fleet without signalling your change of intentions too obviously: now.  Right now, a Fleet Berlin build does not scare/worry your English ally, because it's clearly meant to pin down scandanavia (F Den S Ber-Bal, next season, F Bal S Den-Swe, and you work with England to support them into StP).  Any build of a fleet later is clearly meant to attack England, and they see it coming.  It's almost as obvious a telegraphed signal as Austria building a fleet (I could *tell* Italy that I'll use it against Turkey, but they'd have to be pretty dumb to believe that!) Yeah good points. I’ll see what I can do. For what it's worth: if you and England go after Swe + Stp, I don't really see Russia trying to retaliate on land: that stretches them super wide and thin, with some armies in the south fighting Turkey, and some against you, and a big gaping hole in the middle... where I sit with a pile of armies.  So if they're sensible, they'll just grumble loudly and ignore the loss in the north, biding their time to strike back once Turkey's subdued and they hope they can trust me to join them against you.  It's all in the timing, though!  I'd certainly not prefer it, but you could play nice with them, hoping you can work with them against *me* in the mid-game.  But I'm going to hope you don't go that way, because doing that just leaves your back wide open to English perfidy. 🙂 That’s exactly why I brought up Russia. In a few more rounds I see them being just as thin but you me and England being stronger and with less weak spots near them. Yep, I'm right there with you. Let's keep watch, and if my working with them means that they end up getting a build from Turkey (likely, esp. if Turkey keeps messing up like this past season), I'll let you know in advance so that perhaps that's a time when you and England can make sure the lose one in the north at the same time to stay "thin enough" 🙂 How’s it going?  Is Italy helping France survive, helping you kill them faster, or begging for a piece of the pie?  Looks like you’ve got Russia pretty well pinned down in the north, too! Going pretty good. Looks like it for you too. I think Italy is coming in to get their piece of France before it’s all gone. We’ll see how it gets divided. Yeah especially with England’s fleets up north. You and Russia have got Turkey finished off in a matter of a few turns it looks like. Any idea of where you’re going next? I’d be game for doing some damage to Russia with you, or if you decide to it’s time to go after England with some minor Russian help, I could go the other way and take on Italy.  I’m flexible 🙂  My only preference is coordination: me going after Russia while you going after England leaves us both in 1:1 situations, inefficient.  So I like it when directions change in close order, when possible. I’d prefer we go after Russia next. I would like to get a few more fleet builds and create an opening to position myself better against England before making that move. And this way we can remain coordinated. Understood.  Hopefully we can make that well coordinated (I’ll have to know I’m safe to turn my back on Italy).  I doubt you’ll get a chance to build another fleet without signaling a stab, frankly.  If/when you do it, it’ll probably need to be a “fall turn stab for Bel or Nwy or Bre, build a fleet with that build” kind of stab.  No England with a brain would look at a German ally building a third fleet as any ally worth keeping around. Yeah I get that. Now it’s just a matter of timing it between who else I’m attacking and when a stab is available. Don’t want to overextend myself and end up trapped by England and whoever else we were just working against. Hey there.  1 new build and 1 rebuild.  What's the plan with those?  Any directions you are thinking about for what should happen with our neighbors?  Italy/England/Russia - is it time for us to work together, or go "back to back" and don't work "together", but pointing opposite directions (me attacking Italy or Russia, you attacking England)?  Not sure whether you want to coordinate or not, let me know! Hey sorry busy weekend. I don’t think this is the turn for me to attack England. Don’t know my plans yet though. What about you? If you’re not going after England, I can’t imagine there’s a better time than now for Bal c Kie-Lvn, Ber-Pru, Mun-Sil, given that it locks War in the fall and gives a strong play for Mos.  But don’t do that, it’d only leave Rum and Sev for me! 😉 After I didn’t hear back about where all those armies were going, I worried it might be towards me, so I covered a hole in my defenses. No offense intended: if you want to coordinate with me, just let me know and we can see what works? I do not plan on attacking you. Can you move back away this turn. I can’t use some units to attack other countries if they need to be positioned to defend against you. I would appreciate if you could respond soon. We can stay together as central powers. I’m not attacking you!  But I had to move my armies into a position where they didn’t scare my more vulnerable neighbors.  I had to either straight out attack Russia, or Italy, and I’m not the sort to get into a war without a solid plan with an ally going with me.  Are you and England working together against Russia?  Or are you just devoting a little extra resources to hold Russia back?  I asked you last season what the coordinated plan was, but you either didn’t want to share or needed to go it alone at first, which is fine, but if we want to avoid slowing each other down, we need to talk about it, even if we’re not attacking the same person at the same time, you know? If you want to do full out war with Russia, do you need my help, or will England’s be enough?  I don’t think you’ll be successful just by yourself.  But I could instead slide south to attack Italy, who is another central power, but if I do that, I wouldn’t have enough resources to *also* head north with you. Got it thanks. Let’s come up with a plan an coordinate after the builds. So I understand it may take a season or two to ensure we have a safe way of collaborating (if I propose a plan now, you may not trust I'll do it, and have to tell me you'll do it, but then protect yourself instead) - I'd prefer to have a plan where we both agree on what can work, even if it means being a little slower.  For example, you might say "I have to sit here and double-support Munich to make sure I don't lose it, but we can work together once I see I'm not under threat - just don't take too long" or even "I'm going to have to push back at you for this season, but as soon as you can move into Galicia we can attack Russia together from there".  I'm open to suggestions. One other option, given the builds which happened: Russia built a northern fleet, so if you wanted, we could go in a different direction than attacking them - I could go south and attack Italy, and you and Russia could attack England together.  Just keeping options open... Thanks you I would like to rebuild trust. I will be holding in Mun and moving to Sil. Can you support Ber to Sil? Maybe you could move Vie-ADR? Ven-Adr definitely makes sense, as does your move to Sil.  I can move to Gal as well. Thank you. Glad to work together again. Man that sucks. Why’d you do that? I didn't think they'd actually take it - I really just wanted to make sure Italy got into Marseille.  I'm sorry about that - obviously if I'd wanted to attack you I would have done it myself!  It should be pretty easy to repair though, right? Of course, you could just leave that unit in Munich for now, where you can keep an eye on it?  Once you have it surrounded, you crush it easily.  Right now if I don't support Warsaw you can get it guaranteed: Bal-Lvn cuts that support, and Sil S Pru-War gets in, if I move gal? Can you move to Gal? I’m in Gal already, what do you mean? Sorry, are you moving Gal? Is what I meant to ask. You mean can I move Gal so you know it’s not supporting War? Yeah, what is your plan for that unit? I was going to cover Bud because part of the reason I had to make moves dangerous for you was because Russia is all around me right now, and I need to get them not focused on taking 2-3 of my centers.  Once they are not totally hovering over me, I’m more safe to actually counterattack Ok we’ll see after this turn I suppose. Gal can cover Bud, Alb can cover Ser, was some of what I’m doing to make sure I’m less likely to get smashed.