i think the anxiety is kind of a negative emotion that invades the emotionlessness also some in trying to figure this all out im interested in knowing to what degree this is influenced by trauma whether its avoidant attachment style it feels like a lot of this stuff is vulnerable to kind of pre trans fantasies so is this transcendence or is this just trauma you know am i am i checking out in a dissociative trauma induced avoidant attachment space or am i spread out across the universe how are they the same how are they the different different my own explorations of trauma is i hear from people that are close to me notably my wife that she thinks that i have lots of trauma in my system but when i go look for it or try to treat it i cant find it you know i can do emdr till the cows come home and it doesnt touch it which tells me well is it really trauma or not so you know im very confused about all of this so i just wanted to inject that into this space to


sunsets in location 1 layer 4 paint the sky not just with color but with the promise of renewal and the peace of the coming night


layer 4 feels like absolute irreducible reality in which there is no state or condition nor any existent thing to which a state or condition could pertain


doesnt seem correct


yeah it could be if you feel that theres a sense of something you know in your head or behind your eyes thats looking out and stuff feels like its out there rather than it all just being one field of experience thats just youre just showing up um that would be more like location one


however when asked to describe the details of their firstperson experience differences between them emerge even individuals who have studied and practiced their religion or spiritual system together in the same place for decades can arrive at different versions of fundamental wellbeing sometimes these variations can be more in sync with individuals outside of their tradition than those within it think of it this way there might be only a handful of people within a given tradition who experience location 4


if a finder does work at restoring some perception of layer 3 it can often appear extremely intense energetically at first


you know youve had experiences that are and nonduality and all of that


you know youre past the sense point obviously of layer two youre to the direct perceiving of layer two at various amounts of depth of layer two and even to the point where youre starting to get occasional periods of identity shifting into it and so thats you know a really good progression into layer two


so just just put it off for a little bit the location free stuff even if its for like a day or two or a week or whatever it is


expanding in all directions


deeper into layer 4 in later locations the sense of unfolding diminishes until everything feels instantaneous and total


doesnt feel empty or in the beginning it can feel like the emptiness is sort of infused with presence or beingness or fullness um some people might describe it as an aliveness but it doesnt feel empty any longer


no agency no emotion no divine


fullness presence


i am hoping so much to be deeper in fundamental being that im trying to daydream into it


im in layer two and im able to access layer one


location1 the sense of


it was pretty noticeable when we jeffrey did the sinking into layer two meditation that was more like distinct than my usual state


think of spaciousness all the time


seeing transparent shapes


it is possible that less detail or fewer memories are being stored


we do recommend that people go back and forth between 4 and 5 a lot to kind of build a bridge back so that they can have fluidity back to those earlier locations


fear there because theres emotion there and emotion is


not layer one


it is also known that this agency is its a false sense of agency in the system because its coming from from a mysterious it feels kind of unknowable


flatness


dual


by the time someone reaches location 2 a change in sense of self is very noticeable typically involving a dramatic reduction in or elimination of the conceptual narrativebased sense of self this change relates in part to association with the qualities of layer 2 or deeper rather than with the personal sense of self that is produced at layer 1


basically you know some people systems inclined towards it some people systems dont inclined towards it um but its sort of smack on you know location two layer three type of experience


yeah thats where the fear comes up if i can get over to location two layer two


have enough introspection at location four and later to be able to cleanly answer those questions


layer three feeling permeates through that um and i guess the very act of investigating it also shifts my experience of it in the moment


happiness


something connected with maybe a feeling of settling in


i definitely i definitely feel so when im one one thing thats shifted recently is that is that like in the last probably six months is that i used to whenever i would get bug reports i would react to them pretty negatively um sort of in a fear response kind of way like oh i fucked up and like im going to lose my job and you know not that i was really seriously entertaining that but just kind of like there was a gut feeling like that and um a while ago i noticed that if i just treated them as scientific investigations um that i could do i could do all of my debugging from layer two instead of from layer one and that was so much more pleasant and also so much more effective because im not wasting any time like oh this is going to be bad theres going to be you know like all of this like reflective thought about like you know whats going wrong and what the implications of this is gone like forget it dont worry about it just do the debugging and so yeah i mean but you know i also feel like i mean ive had experiences of layer three


there is no looker or listener in my head anymore


planning


nonsymbolic experience


deconditioning environment


the fullness and so on um what happens in both cases both with the fullness and when i reach the more of a peaceful emptiness is um theres still a sense of an underlying field again like the self


you know its really sort of in a way using location two layer three in a very specific way


zero interest in meaning or purpose


in location 1 this layer will typically be experienced as everything just arising with a general sense of things arising as one but maintaining the perceptual duality of an observer subject here and everything arising there object


because were talking talking about earlier about this peripheral and can be like a big peripheral sometimes where its where its a sense of almost like world mind body like a whole or universe mind body


it was the absence of triggers thats really what i noticed nothing would bother me anymore


later locations


so no question in my mind you know that youre experiencing layer two spaciousness


so the reason i say mostly is because i have had deeper experiences of the nonduality so even the nonduality i feel now theres still because i have deeper experiences of it i dont know if probably deep deep location too because there was still a little agency or emotion or maybe just temporary elements of going further theres still my system just still sees that theres still that like within that nonduality theres still a duality


the ego or the annoying roommate in lay one is noisy busy and buzzing attaching to things like thinking emotion and strategizing


spaciousness or im seeing this mistiness


sacredness or the divine


ones life circumstances assessing


you know how you describe layer two which is more like that field of nothingness the spaciousness


location 2 was the change in subject to object


location two layer two thing


so theres been plenty of time for for a lot of deconditioning and reconditioning to happen even at layer one


thought is replaced by knowingness which is silent and selfevident


i feel like youve been to location four in the past and that you came back from it for relationship reasons primarily in the documen


targeting the location two layer three sort of charmed life type of sweet spot in part to get a sense of sort of the magic that can really be in life


doesnt prevent negative emotions from arising


i think maybe skip straight to the sense of fullness


emotional


layer two which is really you know that is the classical endpoint for so many systems and traditions that is identifying as the you know spacious empty presence of awareness um and feeling that you are that and are untouched by all experience and everything you describe is is really that kind of classical enlightenment in many systems


it would be around sort of the location two layer two type of attributes


look for and find the sense that at the deepest


as long as you retain the ability to zoom in


and layer one


they can feel like a blessing is radiating out to everyone in their presence


because it feels it doesnt feel exactly like what i would call pure peace because sometimes i feel that too where its just you know inner peace and it doesnt feel like pure joy and it feels really good and and it feels in the family of happiness as far as my experience of emotions and what i term kind of the general family of happiness and good feelings and yeah just just just pleasurable and which is good so it seems to me like what you know quote unquote bliss is or should be it does have more im trying to like like right now it has more energy in it theres almost more it seems like theres more energy in it than really kind of just pure bliss


location four it can be um like it can be harder for their system especially if theyve deepened there


so when i get triggered um so the sort of the triggers where im like pleading with reality to be different than it is that kind of trigger that um when its happening so when were at the house up in emerald hills one of the people that was there was talking about contracting around things and expanding outside of that which was a term that i hadnt really heard used before and that really kind of mapped well to what im doing right like when thats happening i feel like im just like shrink wrapped around whatever problem is happening and then yeah exactly and then the relief comes when i notice that im shrink wrapped around the problem which obviously is going to be happening from a perspective of layer two


seeing you as this magical being


approval seeking conversations


you could do that possibly maybe not maybe theres a sense maybe you stay in the shallow range of layer three and just start moving in that direction letting that stuff start to come up


location 4 finders report an even deeper sense of peace and wellbeing


i would say youre somewhere deeper in in location two layer three with that access to layer one


imagining


deeply aware


fullness and whatnot of layer three


layer two is that spacious emptiness that all containing spaciousness and if youre really deeply rooted in it you feel that thats what you are


but didnt really have too much time to dig into that whole agency thing you might already be getting glimpses or have had glimpses of location four my guess is youll get temporary experiences of it doing this you know it wont just like be some jump over in you know tomorrow morning and some locking into location four so you can probably you know get some temporary experiences of it get some more experiences of it and start to get a feel for it and at least its more shallow form before it really sort of deepens and locks in


other stuff is sort of showing up in the nothingness


the fabric of community in location 1 layer 4 is strong woven from threads of trust support and mutual respect


unfolding


pervasive


i can see the broadband


nothingness always there


if you think about divinity as sort of a lower vibrational form of the celestial and you think about the celestial as a potential onramp for a for a very flexible system like yours but not in its lower form not in its mid range form i mean just in its highest most pure most transcendent form and so thats what you would really want to try to find and sink into and the experience of the divine if you wanted to play around with going to the to the celestial yeah be careful of the celestial you know from a relationship standpoint and stuff though of course because like your sex drive will drop off if that matters to your husband or something


location three layer three maybe you experience again that you feel like you have a soul kind of thing or something


instead of action being experienced as the consequence of thought and intentionality it feels intrinsic to the unfolding itself and is silent and selfrevealing


and it all sounds like location four to me


embedded in layer one because theres a you experiencing this not necessarily its still nondual there wouldnt be like a separate looker or something but theres still a sense of an individualized sense of self that is recognizing and experiencing this all present all containing awareness


when shifting deeply and exclusively into layer 4 which essentially only happens from location 4 on it can feel like layer 3 collapses or disappears


suppression of peace


i feel the vibration of what i call love or either love joy or compassion usually compassion is the easiest one


i feel like based in the mind that its a place that i experience the world from and where my attention is most of the time


layer three experience


location two layer three this sense of pure beingness full with presence and life force experiencing a field of infinite potential formless but pregnant with possibility that as well in there in addition to the love peace yes


there are exceptions however for a minority of location 3 finders their profound sense of truth involving what should be done in most situations can be so strong that it can make them difficult to live with


i can still get triggered but negative emotions fall off much faster like glimpsing into layer four by doing unprovoked happiness


contains everything is everything is just here


impersonal emotion


because at least theres some action now and im kind of like since transitioning a bit detached about you know my career who gives a shit you know and you know family just you know an idea like im more detached and i dont really care about a lot of things achievements you know and of course if i would just like to sit on my couch and you know i dont know become a mommy you know its i see why the system can be fearful about that you know yeah but yeah bringing it in into life more i think and and spending more time thinking deeper and see then where it takes me i think its a very good point


i felt that freedom for a long time because i used to be a prisoner of my emotions


instead a very different truth might emerge to take its place


very conscious


theres still a lot of thoughts that i have they are not so much in as as they were when i was not in fundamental being


living a charmed life


and then for location three theres all sorts of methods lesters love i think was one that was mentioned a minute ago by you if i remember right and theres ascension


and you may find that when you get to location three that lifts there is a personal emotion component to it that is producing some negative valence in there that is producing sort of that negative feel


not nondual


personal definition of compassion


feel like spacious


there was no choice and it kept unfolding


thats a common thing for people to have when theyre first in the experience but then it can settle out sometimes over days sometimes over weeks sometimes over months frankly but typically it does settle out for those who have that experience going into location three


if there is none present that maybe my default is layer two


beingness so beingness when you say that and when i when i tune into that i feel like for me that feels like more of a layer two thing


empathetic


i do have a fullness sometimes of more bliss yeah and it can be very little things i can see the sun coming up and shining through through a window and the sun the light catch something and it just it makes me feel really happy inside yeah


there is a powerful directionality and gravity to layer 4 which can be difficult to escape location 4 finders often experience what they describe as a deepening after initially transitioning which can last from a few weeks to a few months and typically involves their perception being drawn more deeply and exclusively into layer 4


emotion


but initially it seems like theres just no possibility from location seven of any duality or any further deepening and then that happens and youre just like um so yeah that sounds like location eight um and thats definitely a place thats very hard to function from um people that are there persistently or basically attended to


expansiveness to relate


when psychologically triggered they could


layer three is nice but it doesnt beat netflix and cheetos


location 3 layer 3ss


and maybe it pulls you over to location three


self felt expanded


certainly if youre in layer one all the time there wont be as you know it wont be very dominant in your experience by comparison


the all pervading aliveness


this is especially the case for finders who had a divine experience of layer 3 before transitioning to location 4 because divinity disappears


the sensory overload of location 1 layer 4 contrasts sharply with an inner feeling of flatness where external stimuli lose their edge


i think its and i think its more because i feel more connected to other people people as well


so ive been working on that for decades anyway um but there are some things i dont have access to like dont have access to i cant see or hear or feel the effects of of the energy transmission but that people tell me about later after the concerts over um so i dont have a sense of where exactly its going other people have been able to see that observe that process happening but um for me im just aware of it all radiating out and very very centered and very spacious


those who can experience it more fully are typically finders who have deepened into layer 4 in later locations and are pulled back down to location 1 for some reason


when that reaction occurs and there is that contraction in some way inside you or whatever else


but life kept unfolding


i want to do fundamental wellbeing so that i can be in layer three of this location or layer whatever so that i can achieve this


its hard to let go of that but i think thats my experience yeah


location 3 finders are typically delightful to be around


nondual location


okay great so thats our main test for nonduality its very clean you know its just straight perception there isnt some question around some how does your sense of self feel or something like that nonduality is a perceptual thing so it can be tested with perceptual means so we know now that youre at least in a nondual location it sounds like you have some range of emotionality you talked about how they drop off quicker but theyre obviously still present


and so basically ever since then its been more of a layer two type thing


and im a separate object now you know and all of that if instead you know more or less the perceptual stuff stays the same even though that reaction is occurring in the system then you know youre basically staying in location two


location two layer three because a lot of the stuff there has been seen through and you know you sort of reconstituting parts of the individualized sense of self bringing agency back in


psychedelics


i feel so free so free


stillness for you is a good way of accessing layer three


youre looking for some sort of consciousness whether divine or just consciousness to emerge or to or a hint of it or something that you can find in that mist youre looking for that meta emotional experience of joy love compassion and can have other things


deeper into layer 2 there is an association with the substance of its spaciousness as ones true nature which is also experienced as the essential nature of everything


reports a significant reduction in or even complete absence of thoughts


but it was not the overriding sensation thats experienced so just thought oh definitely not close to layer three where were in layer two here and thats good


this includes very lowlevel brain processes such as dissolution and reassembly of how the senses are perceived


love with everybody and everything you know and just you know overflowing with love towards them


feel kind of like an alien


location 2 somewhat paradoxically the quality of self in layer 2 and later is impersonal


return to emotion


to more of a nondual emptiness space


could that possibly mean i was in location one


personal sense of self


i hear you thats whats great about these exercises um prior to fundamental well being


if you went in the direction of location for fire location layer three of location two youd sort of avoid those and really sink into the center looseness stillness silence really dissolution of any sense of self


location 2 finders will often comment that at times they fall back into their old sense of self and this often relates to aspects of layer 1 which has a quality of self that feels more individualized and personal than other layers at this location


seeker


spacious perception


freedom is a bigger container than love


layer 1 can usually be easily accessed in location 3 but is by no means the default anymore


vastness to the point of actually a little dreariness


cant have the look or see without going into the mind


that environment became an aversive stimulus to location four until eventually one day the system was just lets not go to location four anymore


false assumption


agree absolutely and it looks like youve had great progress


unprovoked bliss and happiness


you could have just as dominant an experience of mental activity if you really got shallow into layer one but you wouldnt suddenly feel like theres something in your head or behind your eyes thats looking out your eyes and stuff is out there and youre in here and its distinct and separate


i meditated for several months for two hours a day and had quite quite a lot of experiences during that period im pretty sure i was in location three


it took me like five minutes to come back and be able to talk like a normal person again and so ive actually been avoiding those unless im i have someone near me um buddy im staying with is a pretty advanced meditator but hes like a happy location three person


so a lot of those experiences arent directly related to fundamental wellbeing


yeah so the class or the session following the layer two session will be layer three


and its still kind of have that aliveness or that awareness quality is still being differentiated from existence


that stillness is then next sort of felt as a fullness


emptiness


everything comes together like it has for you


experience of the spaciousness but its still relatively shallow because your identity isnt generally speaking really shifting into that


i have no emotion zero just its kind of weird


but theres no sense of like i see myself because the self is just not seeming real anymore


because their own emotions arent influencing the situationas weve seen in this chapter peace or the disturbance of it is often of utmost importance to the success of finders committed relationships


fullness and the energy


you know that you mentioned what sounds a lot more like a layer three type thing so is it a stabilizing and layer three thing and viewing other layers through that or is it a fluidity of experience


layer two and feel emptiness


in a direction stillness


normal functioning and activity of the mind


not fundamental wellbeing


location 2 individuals also have fewer and less powerful conditioned psychological responses


its just one of those words that just just completely sticks out you know i was reading through your document and you used it pretty early on in your document and i was like crystalline interesting you know and then i get to the sex section and im like okay and then i just keep going and youre walking through the progression of how the divine has showed up over time and its like check right and then we get to the point where youre talking about your your perception of the divine in retrospect from this new you know its like check


its a mystery


the silence of the early morning in location 1 layer 4 holds a sacred space for reflection a sanctuary within the self


now i forgot a few years back when i got into nonduality i simply forgot that i had noticed this person what i would call a personal presence


no emotion no sense of agency


this is going to go to the stratosphere youre going to take advantage of those genes and the presence of place and launch like a rocket out into the far reaches of fundamental well being


sense of perfection in location three leads to higher wellbeing than location 2 with less narrative self


the streets of location 1 layer 4 carry stories of ages past each cobblestone a testament to the layers of time and consciousness


and from there you can also see layer one theres a very good connection between layer three and one and location two


divine version


lot of sense of self there in the mind


fundamental wellbeing standpoint


sense of an all pervading field of presence or fullness or silence pervading everything field of silent presence whatever um it can be a field of aliveness but its a nonphysical experience or non sensory kind of perception


and your spiritual system happens to end at a certain point of layer three in location two


a subjectobject split or individuated sense of


agency is basically a sense that you can take action in the world in the sense that were using it its the sense that you can sort of take action in the world that you can make decisions things like that and so folks in location four are usually find that to be a ridiculous idea you know they can have a glimpse of a mental layer that theyre watching discuss things that you know can seem to come to decisions or something but they feel almost like its a read only situation you know its like its a view only situation like they have no input into it you know whatsoever and then a decision is reached and you know their body seems to do that and they still feel like they have no real input in that in that thing


make logical sense or would be considered the


very rich and full


sense of self i feel the sense of self is pretty steadily rooted in layer one


reconditioning process thats occurred for you um and location one


sense of its just the universe looking at your eyes


you sort of have this conscious being and its very close to god but its but its not described with the same divine type of aspect


there are a few thoughts the thoughts are kind of in the air and it feels like theyre passing through my head


theres an awareness that is awareness of everything happening inside my body and outside my body and expanding way out which encompasses all the people in the space that im singing for um so its inclusive its an inclusive awareness um thats the way i have understood it in the past thats a thats actually a term used just in music performance


so when im in layer three definitely its full


everything is conscious


stories including personal stories become less interesting and the thinking mind is still my default


the spaciousness


location 4 individuals have reported shifts to twodimensional instead of threedimensional visions


that makes sense still this feels really comforting so i wasnt really feeling it when i was feeling nervous and im not feeling nervous anymore but i think some nervousness kind of blocks me from feeling this really deep stillness


no individualized sense of self no selfrelated


more comes more to the forefront theres no emotion there


messiness thats at layer one


layer one a personal sense of self


coordinated with itself where the axioms are satisfied


layer three thats like more of a layer three center


negative affect and now experienced one


and spaciousness


location four when youre at some parent teacher thing


location 1 still have a relatively full range of positive and negative emotions


might say aliveness


you would want to minimize sort of those proclivities in your experience that relate to location three and maybe try to make it on to layer four


emptiness or the flatness and the spaciousness


location four you know youre just sort of watching your thoughts


a lower energy system as it comes into fundamental wellbeing more deeply can still seem like a heavy you know type of experience or whatever else what some people do including sanjay manchanda


its just not baked in as part of the natural abilities that come with fundamental well being on top of fundamental well being being hard thing to do in the first place and so its all its all sort of loops back around on itself


this seer or looker


being beingness or presence or the divine


beneath that field of existence which is something like the universe or just reality that you may be having glimpses of or experiences of layer four


as with layer 2 the movement in and out of these temporary experiences can give location 1 finders a sense of not being there yet which is usually not correctthere are simply more locations and depths within them to explore and they are at the beginning of that process unfolding


seems as though youre perceiving times and we do it visually and auditorily just because thats clear as a bell perception wise you dont have to wonder about things like sense of self or any sort of words that can be squishy you know either its visually or auditorily perceived that way or its not so it seems like you know you had three distinct experiences visually one is of a locus of a seer behind your eyes sort of the standard thing that humans have which arises especially with thought and stuff like that and then one that can also arise it seems like when youre thinking but that is aware of everything is just arising visually but there is a sense of well its arising out there and im here and its arising out there kind of thing those are both location one type experiences


location two has so many different possible experiences in it


changes in encoding


i guess its because a few months ago for a period of time i was i cant figure out whether i should put you on speaker or gallery here um for a period of time i um i felt really a lot of the feeling of sacredness um and and there was a lot of um a lot of joy and no joy okay there was a lot of um what i call it there was a lot of bliss i would actually call it bliss so there was like when i in my body it was just a lot of bliss and i related more to sacredness kind of sacredness and everything and i almost felt like there was too much energy in my body like it was it was almost like too much bliss i dont know if that makes sense um and and then i i didnt think i was nondual because i didnt understand what non i didnt really get it until ive been watching these interviews and so then when i started watching the interviews i realized that or some either something shifted or i realized or something shifted because i dont feel that really strong bliss so much even in the first interview i did i felt it more and then over the last couple of weeks it feels more like um it feels more like just a lovely like contentment and fullness and like oh its just so nice


including your focus on location two layer three


mental state to fundamental wellbeing


spacious empty system


nonduality


magnetic attraction in a way to a sense of union


definitely sometimes and and and one of the times that i would notice that would be the times when im sort of stressed about something which does still happen you know cant get upset about things still so thats all you know thats definitely a identification with some kind of story thats going on then


was almost a trigger


but basically you just kind of remember it you know or get to it however you can sometimes its just a relaxation in the system sometimes its an intense focus on maybe something like divinity that eventually just pulls one over into something you can sink into


like even right now im feeling a little bit the gosh its like a warmth right here in my you know kind of chest and just torso you kind of stomach area um and just i wouldnt its in the family of joy but i wouldnt call it joy necessarily its also the related to this idea that just and you know that everything is going to be okay but its somehow stronger than that well theres a few things


aliveness


so when it comes into a cruelty kind of are damaging people that really riles me like of the things that can trigger me


in location three there was a certain clarity that i dont have now because it was like less commotion or deadness because like the love would infuse every thought so a thought would come up and instead of me where i am right now i dont want to deal with it it would just be like oh its okay its lets lets just sit with it and the loving feeling would just infuse every thought and then certain judgments that id have oh well i dont really need to look at it that way i can well i can just put love in this or i can just love it so that that id say that was like the most stark contrast


i feel like it just collapses and im left with an expansion of my sense of self


in the merger


that aloneness quality that seems to come up sometimes in association with layer two


that makes more sense all right so yeah its a trigger to awareness for some reason yeah okay so it is awareness related methods that youre in good shape there you know thats the majority of people slight majority i mean not like 70 of people or something but yeah okay so thats great um thats thats a good sign that those work for you because those are those are good for especially progression through layer two


sense of presence or however deep it goes


mostly i feel the fullness and the connectedness the oneness


sense of emptiness


so location 3 is dual but not in the same way as location 1 or for nonfinders


location two because youve got that single meta emotion


and layer two of location one


even my thoughts


quite deeply into layer 3 its fieldlike presence can feel dense even like a thick liquidalthough not everyone experiences this


it has taught us that social situations train us how to feel just as they train us how to think and act in so many other ways


through layer one as an example


it might be some way that your system kind of translates or resonates with layer three or sinking into layer three


i refer to these as facets of a single metaemotion


looking like boundless space from behind to front


is that the sort of location eight kind of direction that youre referring to there as the fringe


its because they dont have a dominant layer and theyre like you know no you know the fullness is there and the emptiness is there and the mind and the thoughts and the emotions theyre all there but im not any of those and youre thinking to yourself okay well what about you know lets maybe youre a layer four


sense of spaciousness


location eight


i do think location three could do a lot for you so its probably worth seeing what thats like because theres more trade off on the location for side given the interpersonal nature of some of the work you do


you know in your experience you may not be experiencing those as strongly as you otherwise would without being in layer three and having you know sort of the experience of layer three


life within everything


all pervading sort of field of awareness


of course if youre fully in layer two where youre sensing that all containing awareness and you are that they wouldnt be a sense of something to be alone


everything just showing up


up through that location im sorry layer one


i havent i dont really understand how it could be full right now so i dont know what that means and so that really doesnt make sense when i look


it would seem the moments that the centre and falls away and the self comes more less and less that


fullness that permeates everything


so you might be more in that direction in the sense that you get that profound sense of peace and very little affect in that deeper place in layer three in location two then then you know and thats thats fine but if you want the love joy version of it um you may need to either try to bias your system in that direction by you know seeing if you can call up the love joy sort of qualities that tends to be a little bit shallower in layer


but with with some limits on the love and compassion side of things and the overall predominance of joy um not a sense of unity type stuff or divine type stuff or anything like that it just might be easier for you to route in to layer three and location two rather than trying to make the jump


remain quite highly social in later locations because its just whats been habituated you know so most people had the socialization habituated from an individualized sense of self perspective then the individualized sense of self goes away and whats happened is theres wiring in their brain where theres key parts of the brain that basically get more active when the individualized sense of self is there and less active when the individualized sense of self isnt there is reduced or whatever else


it really sounds to me like you might have had a transition to the celestial experience of things pretty recently you know the sex stuff fits obviously and it sounds like there were probably some movements in that direction even prior to whatever the last five days or something but youve had your whole in your document its just such a divine sacred you know um you know surrendering devotional constantly merging constantly dissolving sort of feel of a layer three experience and the one thing that we have the only thing that we have potentially correlated at this point with the transition to the celestial is essentially that type of sort of devotional surrender if you will and so you fit the bill for that you know perfectly your descriptions you know the minute i see something like exalted and crystalline its just like you know nobody else ever says crystalline


something into this experience of two so my experience of this has its just now releasing a lot of the as of a couple of days ago thought it might be wise to look at this yeah so ive been experiencing you know this very strange weird nonduality type


location four is not as intense


four so the information on the layers was just me edging out for my peace palace from location four you know annemiek said something about locations it didnt really occur to me that you could change locations that quickly you know you used to have the fluid four and you had the concept where you change locations


life in its totality has no opposite and cannot die


i still get triggered


associating stillness with focus


so i meditated on it and immediately resolved it it disappeared that was the last big one


regardless of whether youre in location one


stark nothingness


there is a sense of me here but its not its not showing up in the perceptual field like the perceptual field is just here the sense the sense of me


i dont feel sadness


location two because my system shifted and i was being the the space spacious emptiness um without without being the body anymore


so that even that phrase having a charmed life


if that really drops away completely that may be more noticeable but even then because of the lack of self reflection its very possible for finders to just not even notice that right um but yeah thats thats a significant kind of shift when layer three really disappears from perception along with any remaining sense of even the most impersonal form of self or beingness


conceptualizing


your sense that you can do anything make any choices or anything like that typically goes away


overwhelming sort of feeling of joy


very concentrated state


deep peace and beingness


boring


finders experiencing this can seem atypically antisocial and rude during this period


of layer four


this deepening process involves the falling away of remaining subtle layers of self at layer 3


center less


so basically the components of that meta emotion the sense of the divine and methods that are particularly good for location three


a major reason for this was because the change they experienced in motivation after their transition to fundamental wellbeing produced negative impacts on their income social life or other aspects of their life and they simply decided to switch backmany people who rejected fundamental wellbeing had one major thing in common they had experienced rapid transitions that took them directly into location 4 in one case a person read a book about fundamental wellbeing went to sleep and woke up in location 4 despite being absorbed in a previously undreamtof level of wellbeing and sense of freedom he felt hed traded his humanity for it it is not uncommon for those who land in location 4 without religious or spiritual moorings or a psychological frame of reference to feel this way


so those other components are potentially there that you know can sort of come together into that composite of into that composite emotion for location three


it has ebbed and flowed a little bit but its been pretty consistent feeling of deeper stillness at the points where one would expect you know you were describing things around the fullness or just stuff like that versus the body per se versus like sinuses and mhm or even in this part of the conversation you know like it seems like the stillness is ebbed a little bit from the depth that it was a moment ago


like i felt everything kind of like drop into like layer one so i feel much more like actually as the personality


experience love


when youre in location four you give yourself a little bit you know more likely access to path of freedom versus path of humanity


glimpse a more pure form of layer four in location four


yeah it is so this this stillness is a bit more still like the presence sort of is like it was like a like you know with it wasnt quite still but it was a bit more still in fullness or much more still in fullness


felt nice i was kind of surprised at that point


life is just fantastic


all right so you mentioned your goal is first uh location two layer three so it sounds like youve got that already of course theres always more to explore


so see what see if you can really deepen your access to layer to be able to shift their fluidly at least to a very you know complete experience of it if not to an identity shift and see what that does you know when when theres a trigger or something even if its a very subtle trigger just really sink into that layer two experience and see what that does


start off with greater intensity


all right location three has the sense of divinity or panpsychists theres a sense of being in union with that um its that single emotion of joy love compassion maybe some other facets depending on someones belief systems or cultural underpinnings things like that whereas layer three is probably more of what youre thinking off layer three is more of that field like presence that we talked about i dont have to repeat it because we just did a video on all that


probably youre already doing all of that intuitively it would be my guess and then the other thing is there was you mentioned temporary glimpses when deeper of a shift of your identity into spaciousness


theres lots of things that should bring it to the fore and they just dont


christianity


layer one from a more persistent higher place as well


boundary and location two is just like the state of missouri cant contain it its just the vastness


but again that is if i choose to focus in that way and i dont have a sense of emptiness rather i would say when i you know when if i just feel its more of a sense of fullness that im experiencing and i feel like i experienced that in the world as well so not just in myself and but then when i relate to people for example that is still going to be you know im still going to default back into seeing us as two separate individuals right and you know very much in that way


from there they can let the whole process go before anything further arises or allow it to arise


fullness or that beingness from a layer three standpoint


single emotion of love and joy and compassion


more towards positive emotion than location 1


this includes experiences like felicity or frustration though we must be careful here


or are temporarily experiencing fundamental well being


if theyve got some temporary glimpses or temporary experiences happening of location two


i call it the exuberance of the universe like laughter that its a flavor in layer three


clear openness never goes away


i can trust it completely


divine one


when i do come into that spaciousness


over to location three


often have a noetic sense that everything is unfolding exactly as it should


being experienced in the context of fundamental wellbeing


everything arises


however does it seem like when youre looking that everything is just sort of showing up okay so thats just a quick test we do for nondual perception so thats a second vote in favor of location two


sense of agency


others like ones of layer one tend to be dissolved very rapidly by layer two


i think i remember reading your childhood thing and your pastor thing um let me said it felt like getting lost and ending up on material earth so thats you know that can be in the direction of it for sure but that can also just to some degree be a finder thing as well in some cases even as early as location one


ive actually one benefit is that ive got i have my anchor or my hook for location three out of it which just happened recently just pure pure holiness


it certainly sounds like most of your experience of the deeper layer stuff is layer three everything you described is sort of layer three qualities and it sounds like you can actually sink into that very easily and you know a highly fluid to that place and in addition it shifts you to location two from having a more dual sort of perception and so thats really just awesome


connected to everything in the immediate


and get stuck in location one


the senselessness at layer three


their emotional life becomes more and more positive and they can reach a point where negative emotions are rare


whats out there is out there


spaciousness is coming i dont know how to describe it


layer 2 is essentially out of phase with location 4 and can bring on difficult experiences for people


but it becomes more salient and


there is no sense of distance or space even the field of awareness disappears leaving no sense of any dimensiononly the allpresent reality


that makes sense because remember like the first ever transition had into fundamental wellbeing and then a second transition when i went probably to a deeper layer i think those two transitions felt very strong and noticeable quite dramatic mean they were not like you know catastrophe dramatic like some people have but you know they were unmissable right whereas this feels this shifting between what might be layer three


i saw shapes in language


dark night of the soul


people actually not thinking that theyre even in fundamental wellbeing


it feels like a battle between my mind and the fullness right now


im immediately noticing that im the witness um and then its obvious its easy to notice then that things have an emptiness about them and that theres


location two also combination one


it could be that that mist type feeling that field type thing mist type thing as its showing up for you which is a totally legit way of describing it might you know you might start to see sort of a consciousness emerge in it


and even the reintroduction of emotions for some


from close to that place and kind of maybe sync zoom in a bit but you can essentially live probably a lot of your life from a place like that


and so location four is emotionless agency less you know divine less feeling of you know alienness feeling of loss of humanity


so then if i was able to go to location four


talking to everybody and thinking about it and examining myself and whatevers going on in that space


i kind of decided that i wanted to stay involved with society so im no longer at that state where everything is absolutely gone


opposed to feeling like its me


wellbeing is experienced that previously could not have been imagined regardless of how happy they were previously


existence


if its location two sometimes layer two of location two


from layer three or layer three


layer three type of more location three ish type of layer three type experience right


that sentence is like textbook location four you know context


theres books like breaking the habit of self you know titles like that out there and thats really exactly what people are doing when theyre transitioning into fundamental well being


layer one in terms of your sense of self and your dominant perspective then there would be


because location two layer four can sound so much like


looking out at the space


the sense of a localized distinct observersubject is no longer present instead everything is just arising as one field of experiencebecause of this nonduality at location 2 especially beyond layer 1 and the shallow end of layer 2 there is no sense of distinction between the objects of experience the experiencer and the process of experiencing it all seems to unfold as one


perception and the resulting change in sense of


because when i focus on the qualities of space i mainly sense fullness and a substance like presence


it functions autonomously but is now increasingly outside of even subjective awareness despite continuing to impact behavior


all pervasive presence


spaciousness is coming from that side from your left side


the location four doesnt you know show up as something that is necessarily dissociative or trauma related in in the ordinary sense


i have my eyes half closed and half eyes open theres some sparks of light


deepest and darkest despair of their life


its kind of operating from


divinity in everything


location three combination layer one


im describing is layer three okay so theres the experience of for you you know that all pervading sense of presence of the divine but it remains an experience of it um and therefore relational even though theres a union its relational and um its if you compare you know the idea of what we experience say the sun we experience the sun in a certain way um but the experience of the sun as it is unto itself is entirely different to our experience of the sun and the same goes for the divine or you know the the ground of being while it remains relational its an entirely different experience than when that relationship falls away or collapses and theres nothing to experience it and theres only it as it is unto itself um which means the qualities as we experience them the qualities of it whether thats divinity or presence or beingness um those can no longer be perceived because theyre only perceived in in relation to it you know as it is known to the self um but when that reflection on experience ceases its just as it is unto itself its its you know without um go ahead


nothing appears to have independent or essential existence and there is only undifferentiated realityv


the clear light of being or consciousness or awareness


lets say its just an open space to me like its theres just if i step back so if im stepping back and just um saying if theres no thought if im if im not putting thought into it it just its kind of just is so theres not really a sea without thought


silent peace have that those types of qualities


but what it suggests is that its possible that youre having shallower experiences of layer three that youre not recognizing as layer three or not paying attention to because its not the thick liquid um experience that was probably more powerful um because even that sense of presence getting heightened the sense of aliveness pervading the spaciousness is in the direction of layer three beginning to be experienced as simultaneous with layer two


layer 3 feels like a profound fullness rather than feeling as though it contains everything like layer 2 this feels as though it pervades and infuses everything


layer 4 is very difficult to access from location 1 those who can get a sense of it are mostly finders who have deepened into layer 4 in further locations and are pulled back down to location 1 due to circumstantial reasons


no thoughts


its like identity is still remaining on the layer one on the level of the mind but its kind of getting very immersed in this experience of emptiness and nothingness that its reacting to it like its sort of seeing its own emptiness or its own


you can really focus that towards location three so that means focusing on the location three type qualities


and even i even hesitate to say me but theres definitely a space between the trigger and whatever is reacting i would say the spaciousness between it


okay is this one of those location two examples where theyre not where theyre basically just not acknowledging the emotions


modulation of joy


sometimes if im in or doing awareness it can be just empty the idea of a container doesnt really i can kind of manufacture the idea of a container but even the container has something outside of it um and its not like its not like distinct for me so i could be doing a guy and like have experiences of both a container and no container but its almost like the container isnt complete containing everything its like almost if you imagine the universe is in a container and theres endless something outside of that


calm


these relate to being beingness itself the most foundational layer of association when these fall away it subjectively feels as though the centerless field of beingnessawareness ie layer 3 disappears or somehow collapses into raw indivisible existence then all that remains is existence in spontaneous unfolding


youll transition


very common and totally understandable from a fundamental wellbeing standpoint


i seem to get stuck there just thinking just in my thoughts or emotions sometimes but whenever i stop and look for either emptiness or fullness i seem to find it so im not sure what that means exactly like which way am i coming from or or maybe im just in layer one and pretending to be in the other layers


theres just absolutely no guarantee once you jump across that location five channel but you get the idea


single emotion


okay so lets lets just assume for purposes of this test that you are actually in location to


beingness that pervades everything


since 2017 was when i did finders course and transitioned


okay great so you did that early on and you i assume have a looker from that perspective


and in layer two um theres more spaciousness theres less of when you look through your eyes theres not a sense of identity anymore more of a sense of spaciousness yeah


god jesus or the holy spirit depending on


experienced became increasingly positive


thats a little bit of a difficult place to stick persistently and so its probably more of like a very high layer three


unless you want to be in location one or something


selfreferential thoughts have declined significantly and thoughts that remain are largely present moment oriented


higher levels of consciousness


that sounds very layer two so you have diagnosed yourself well on that one


i think i probably zoom in a little bit too far or zoom in back down to like layer one


layer 3 is sometimes experienced as the foundation or source of manifest existence which is typically integrated with conceptions of divinity in the case of people who experience the divine version of location 3 because it is undifferentiated and formless the only way the symbolic mind can conceive of it is as unmanifest pure potentiality


but like the distances between things dont seem any bigger than usual the space itself feels very big and infinite and


the experience of earlier locations is changed as a result of the system having deepened in late locations


i had a man that used to be a teacher have a very strong strong triggered reaction about something that didnt really connect to me but he was kind of venting on me and he was literally screaming at me frothing at the mouth and i felt quite spacious and he was blocking me he wouldnt let me leave like i was like do i need him in the groin or im okay and and it was this interesting experience but i felt like i could just really be there and it didnt impact me highly it was you know i walked when i walked away and was able to drive away i took some deep breaths and was like okay and my system felt like it released like i had to i had a couple tears but not with an emotion and i felt my system release some of whatever he was projecting but i felt quite spacious during it


complete absence of emotion


sort of the presence and the fullness of place


all of these types of distinctions go


its obviously also good for accessing layer four


sense of emptiness in that spaciousness


starts blissing you out or whatever you may want to you know backpedal a little bit on that if you dont want to wind up in location three


its peaks in intensity in the trees


it feels like like one little point one little point trying to poke into all the fullness


i would say pull down to layer one


into layer three and location two


but i realized especially because of this program and having to reflect i dont know when i stopped having selfreferential thoughts


perceiving or aware at its most foundational level can kind of emerge from layer four to varying degrees or collapse


youre just like seeing it from you know outside of its space time or something


layer two of that spacious beingness that feels like your real nature is always there


the notion that fundamental wellbeing necessarily entails experiencing a unified or onenessbased type of perception nonduality is not accurate


location two layer four is an easier traverse between going between the layers and to then when you flip into four it


probably an apparent stability


layer three of location two is where i want to be


you know love joy divine you know thing


very full


overabundance


it was just this experience of all inclusive love like there was no separation between anything and it was incredible


if it was in layer two it would be you moving up to that boundary between layer two and layer three and starting to experience that which is totally possible


quality of clear openness


no experience of


it feels quite a bit more spacious now


many of the positive traits and types of human experience


they kind of emerge into awareness as this kind of nonverbal understanding or knowingness that is essentially something translated down to a deeper layer from layer one


theres much more flow now than there used to be


layer four


fundamental sense of okayness but its kind of in the background


very rich and very full you know complete


and so you could potentially do a little biasing that way


location 1


its joy


so i was tripping over the the definition of i think its location three layer three around one singular emotion so the word emotion was tripping me because dont feel that as something localized to this form but theres a theres a tonal quality to that space or a i dont know how to maybe a frequency sensation


vibrancy


daniel brown retreats


like its holding everything like everythings appearing in it i cant see the edges of it though its a bit like guess the ocean would be a good metaphor mean although you kind of he know that the ocean has limits you cant see them but i dont i dont know theres any limits to this because i cant see them and i dont you dont have that reference point to know theres any limits to it so i suppose im probably not using the word container correctly


locations 1 generally experience a full range of emotions


classic end of christian


body will react as if there was a thought


and so keep that in mind for the probing the visual effects of location five location six youre looking for glitches involving senses and the nervous system


whole experience is center less


location four is no personal emotion


try to see if you can get an identity of you as being that sense of presence and you know infinite field and you know all of that


and maybe the way to get at that a little bit more is to go on to what happens when you do actually sink in and when you have the thing in your sternum in the center of your chest or whatever basically happening that that sense of a void i mean a void is one of those things that you hear you know thats a term thats very strongly associated with layer two and certainly especially at a nondual type of location like location two


lot of very positive experience its theres a very deeply a lot of love and deep understanding as well for for others theres theres compassion


but probably its going to remain location two


having to go to sort of the alien and root in and become hyper familiar with the alien type of thing at location four


so it was during the the program kind of towards the end of the program i think and guys really activated the access point to that for me and some of the headless way did and there were days i dont remember exactly how many days maybe or something and after maybe three is something in me realized oh i probably need help and i was in a space of i dont even have words for it it was like this being dissolved and everything was arising but because this being had dissolved like i had trouble walking and talking and wasnt really functioning but didnt really register that i wasnt functioning until i did and yeah and then something was like you should reach out and get some help and i was like oh i should reach out and get some help and and then sent some emails and and even that it was like didnt identify with that voice that was kind of coming in somehow and and having my body type the email


you might be able to even find that in your experience of layer three right now in location two its worth looking at to see if it is possible if it is showing up as sort of one meta emotion with you know one of those three facets more forward at any given time


see objects


fullness awareness and aliveness and just all pervading and pervasive


if something major happens such as the death of a beloved child parent or spouse negative emotion can arise


it sounds like its clearly location two to me without that sense of self behind the eyes thats the easy one it is funny how the self is bothered by its own return thats kind of entertaining isnt it its just never happy its its not happy when youre trying to make it go away its not happy when it comes back its just generally not happy


impersonal or divine compassion joy


subtle duality


theres spaciousness


conditioning around needing the approval of others is dissolving and may result in less social and socially desirable behavior


but just like waking up in the morning its its very much mind content mostly around you know work or planning not a lot of like rumination or fear based thoughts but still a lot of content and being fairly embedded in the content still not like prior to transitioning which is like a huge difference but


many different potential trajectories within fundamental wellbeing


would mean a loss of self loss of the center loss of beingness loss of ones own existence so its natural that your system would kind of pull back to even if its just the upper reaches of layer three where there is awareness


very reaction based from the standpoint of being in fundamental wellbeing


feeling full of joy


then your description of location four sounds you know it sounds like location four you know no sense of self no sense of agency no emotion um it sounds like you probably did have a glimpse of location four


a little turbulence around emotion


when youre in layer one its mostly rooted in a higher layer whether its layer two or layer three or even layer four


rather than layer one


the charmed life would be a more sensible and realistic and just better choice for me


you are in location four because it locks you in


the art found in location 1 layer 4 is a mirror of the soul each piece a window into the artists journey and the viewers own depths


in location 1 layer 4 dawns first light doesnt just herald a new day but whispers of eternal beginnings felt deep within


and particularly when you have a very strong catholic upbringing and then very strong couldnt be any stronger than that in the years that i was catholic


minds seemed much quieter


former sense of self that fell away


location for type of nonduality


the access that where im at in fundamental wellbeing you should come


and you can use that period to work on exploring and deepening into layer three where youre already at but you could also start seeing if you can develop some fluidity or access to layer three


all right so generally speaking when i hear something like that it immediately makes me think probably location two


the boundaries between work and play blur in location 1 layer 4 each act imbued with purpose and the joy of being


love a yes so its just that yeah i guess the word just has so many different connotations much more than what i have now i think it just kept trying to go more and then it kept being a little blocked so like i guess probably just the beginning stages of location three or just i dont know i dont like maybe it was really deep location two layer three i just dont know how like magical


but theyre all one field of experience if it were a duel it would be like well this thing is separate from this thing that which is looking is fundamentally separate from fields separate from distinct from what is out there


or location three


unconditional positive regard


but you know the nature of the thoughts like if im to compare myself to ten years ago you know the nature of myself is very different its theres not really a tangible self per se theres no voice in my head or like not really many im not really interested in narratives or not many narrative thoughts going back to me its just not something im really drawn to yet i do think about life situations i do analyze things i do make plans theres just not so much backward looking activity in that sense so yeah i can go on


so then then i realized after reading the book like one and a half times so im like oh well maybe that spaciousness is whats referred to when im in meditation and theres this part of it where we call the ring space and i go there and its just just all space and it feels happy to be there um but the thing that confused me was that i couldnt say in that experience that everything was arising from that space its like someplace i go to so that thats why well maybe thats the beginning of layer two


so in like a watcher kind of way


the subjective experience is emmeshed with deep beliefs about what is ultimately real and transitioning to and deepening into location 4 can be disconcerting


no panpsychist sense


divine love and their merging


both empty and full


staying more shallow you do increase your range


sort of a social aspect of your life very important prior to fundamental well being


rather than just having a really deep experience of layer three in location two where theres still nondual experience for divine


being complete


location 4 finders who experience this in committed relationships are equally fortunate


kept having to just do what was in front of me


although a soulless version of a dark night of the soul the soul word doesnt make a lot of sense to them um and so there are these there are such significant changes identity wise for you in that leap from layer three to layer four location four


and thats makes perfect sense to me because the gravity is really to those elements of layer three and location three you know right


wouldnt be divine


just whatever is noticing


deity


feels untouched


better than location four layer four just based on ive heard that you know location for layer four is not terribly associated with go getter type of attitudes no matter the piece or anything


no aloneness


location four you might have that repeat again with temporary glimpses of location 5 or 6


the conditioning definitely seems to be something that is keeping you anchored to a much more shallow experience of layer one


healers


total spaciousness


if its arising more strongly and blocking out a perception that you really never leave layer two its just that its you know as its coming up its sort of pushing layer two into the background and sort of you know hiding it a little bit and all of your attention is going here on layer one because its like in the foreground of your experience and then you know you you immediately you can think to yourself well wait a minute and then layer two you know can come more forward right but i think one thing to pay attention to in your experience is is there an underlying identity shift in that process you know are you going from layer two and theres that disappearing and layer one is coming on and then layer two is coming back in you know with layer one sort of you know contained within it away in a way or is it a situation where layer two is always there youre never actually leaving layer two youre stable in layer two but just some of the you know some of the problems or issues or triggers that you have are so significant that theyre really giving you know just just you know theyre really creating a trigger that pulls that layer one very very very close so that maybe you have difficulty even seeing around it


there is a sense of an allpervasive consciousness what philosophers call a panpsychist experience


does this mean that location 4 and beyond were unknown within christianity this seems highly unlikely until very recently for christian authors what occurred in the transition to location 4 was probably difficult to share without dire personal consequences and possible retributions from church hierarchy


the self falls away


go for the joy


generically impersonal love


the ego in lay one is allconsuming able to block access to perception of other levels with a false assumption of its importance and my staying at its level


from layer one


nondual experience thats had in april of this year i had um was doing inquire inquiry you know after finishing the 45 days and um you know obsessively doing that because you know i just wanted to get whatever was on offer you know from the program and well i was really trying to get back to my december experience of 2018 but because i didnt really know what was on offer but so i kept doing the inquiry inquiry and then i realized there was no me at that time and so thats the weird nondual experience that


a state where that very that emotion is present thats a combination of love joy and compassion


feel like its kind


and layer three


youve already won the lottery your system is wired for it youre deep in it you can go to you can experience layer one and


silence and stillness


lack of emotion


its basically in all likelihood going to be that type of stillness or silence type of focus that will pull you through to the very deepest reaches of layer three


thats really a big reason why the triggers went away because im no longer a prisoner of those things


capable of great focus and efficiency


people suppress their peace a little


never arguing with anybody or anything


location 2 involves a form of nondual experience


less concerned about you continuing to go deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper i dont have any issue with you playing around with that and you know i mean if anything it might be like maybe 10 to 20 of time on layer one methods


its easy as well to go to location to layer two basically


it feels more like presence there is this sort of buzzing energy thats pretty much always happening its quite strong now um thats something that i associate with aliveness but it doesnt have the sort of intelligence that awareness has presence has uh so im not really sure thats one of the questions im not so yeah that buzzing did sort of i do associated with layer three


so its just that sometimes i just call it a timeline its like this timeline thats happening but it doesnt its not exclusive in any way because thats at a really low level that its happening in order of oh event thought decision action


an event in fundamental wellbeing for a while


the nothingness could also be in layer three


i had a retreat for example in just in in august where i was basically almost all of the time in awe i felt the most of the time in location three


and if you really deepen into layer four in location two your system will sooner or later be unable to really stabilize that in location two and it will shift into location four


location two layer one


dont experience anger


only a single positive emotion remains in location three feeling like a combination of universal compassion love and joy which is almost always in the foreground


inner joy or aliveness or love


looker or the listener inside your head


what was covered in location 1 around goals a present moment focus feeling complete or whole relationship to stories psychological triggers a sense of self that extends beyond the body personality changes or lack thereof perception of physical pain humor goals and paradoxesshould largely be seen as holding true for later locations unless it is specifically commented upon


spacious


youve got sort of a watcher thing that is a meta perspective sort of a meta cognitive perspective


whereas in location to my internal chatter is very quiet and just i hardly notice it


we find that they can often pull people out of fundamental wellbeing so thats not the best idea weve had a lot of people report that the first time we had that reported was we were running one of the first founders courses and it was during burning man burning man hit in the middle of it burning man as you can google it if not yeah its sort of a psychedelic ish festival in the nevada desert yeah and you know we had a bunch of people that had transitioned to fundamental wellbeing before burning man they went to burning man and ingested a bunch of drugs and then fell out of fundamental wellbeing and had a hell of a time trying to get back


and then while youre in layer one you know youre able to produce a memory of layer three if thats what it is


location 4 since it often conflicts with deeply held beliefs and ideologies though again its important to note that there usually isnt a sense of agency involved to the finder it appears as if the debate and subsequent rejection just happen


its all just there


meta experience


and then when its more you know having that deeper experience where theres the sense of union or the dissolving the melting into creation thats you know possibly glimpses of location three


the streets of location 1 layer 4 are not just paths but journeys each corner a crossroads of potential and discovery


no real emotional valence to it which people will often confuse with location four


in location 2 this is often the result of the experience of layer 1 being integrated with or experienced from deeper layers this in turn involves a degree of distance from layer 1 which also produces a sense of distance between mind and self eg i am not my thoughts i am not the thinker


arising


positive flow


observer


so theres a fairly rapid and high amount of fluidity but we dont yet know if its actually fluidity or if youre viewing different layers from one


so when you say its in everything what qualities of it are you perceiving in everything


divine sense of the divine


like layer one kind of zooms in and out and theres definitely still some some habits and some theres some avoidance protocols that are in place because theres things you dont you know thoughts have been problematic for


it makes perfect sense youd be able to zoom in zoom out


still be visible in some way or distinguishable


that can be a very useful place to try if youre working with conditioning at layer one


and then you talked about a joy and deep peace spreading throughout you when you receive the eucharist


but then also you know in location for theres no sense of agency and theres sort of you know in the public its a very much a smear between what these things sort of mean


persistent form of peace


so love joy compassion


the allencompassing feeling of love joy and compassion pervades all experience and there is a deep sense of perfection beauty and even sacredness to everything


although their need for approval has lessened even further than location 2


theres a feeling of a deeper and deeper stillness where theyre seeing theres no one and nothing but the eyes can be open then to see that also it maintains itself


in location 3 layer 2 shows up as the presence of divinity or as the panpsychist presence


desert of emptiness and the massive you know the massive sort of crisis of existence


as you know thats the location two at least some nondual location anyway


emptiness or spaciousness


when i meditated on the thought of that person it was a little surprising because i think i still have feelings but not emotions because emotions i feel are a reaction or you know something like that and thought i could remember them


in location 1 layer 4 the warmth of a shared meal transcends nourishment becoming a communion of souls and stories


and help us sort of get a general context of where youre at and so you know i think in some cases youre probably getting glimpses of layer three in location one


rich experience


something is just revealed in a moment


single remaining positive


there is no longer the sense of anything within or beyond itno sense of alltranscending or allpervading formless presence or beingness


layer one i will feel that my thoughts are very real my problems are very real and theres a lot of dangers in the future


i got into buddhism in the first place was because i was looking around me and i was just seeing like you know im actually living kind of a charmed life right now like i have all of my needs met you know i never have any trouble getting a job


four that shifting feels very subtle and i was expecting something a bit more a bit stronger and so that maybe explains why thats the case


like i just look at the tree and i feel joy and i feel i dont know what im looking for here


sometimes the layer to spaciousness location to layer two stuff comes in spontaneously as a result of just the right environment or circumstances typically relating to the safety thing


thats like a location nine type of experience um where yeah if its not under your control then its its some fluidity in your system that actually dont have that one under control either


its still there but the sort of like alive presence that i feel that isnt limited to me but everywhere is part of that field and its like it was always there but now that im aware aware of it it was just sort of like a very slight phase shift to be able to see it like if it was a visual thing it would be like averting my glance just like a couple of degrees in one direction and then like suddenly its there


it is essentially the home layer of location 4 and later and experiences of it in earlier locations tend to be partial and temporary


somewhat like just me relocating my organs


the big one of course is you know one kind of meta emotion that feels like a combination of love and joy and compassion could be some other things mixed in there depending upon life and cultural circumstances and all of that


remember from the content that there a strong link oftentimes between layer three


thats sort of everywhere another thing that made me ask that is because your your description of layer three in your document relates to a very specific and quite deep experience of layer three where it does feel like a liquid or like this thick quality thats that is a absolutely layer three


location 1 individuals notice that their focus is now more centered in the present moment rather than the past or future


it will often be experienced from perception being centered in deeper layers


i dont know that it was a rising in a way that you would have answered the questions that way during this interview per se but you clearly have a penchant for you know fluidity in general you know and you were able to detect oh wait a minute im getting a little too close in the direction of location four we dont want that you know it sort of you have enough sort of presence to be able to sense that kind of thing and generally thats the kind of thing that comes from someone who is used to having some fluidity you know its kind of a situational awareness if you will within fundamental well being in the same way that ordinary people have a situational awareness in life among different circumstances and stuff like that right and so im sure that theres fluidity here for sure but at least during this interview the way you described things the way you talked about things you know id pin it mostly at location two layer three


divine or of an all


and then goes over to location two you know and layer two and so on and so forth from there


listener


and then and the sensory smoke you know just like somethings burning and theres nothing burning but im just smelling smoke so other than that i cant recall them


who doesnt believe in the divine


even feeling that space was just jarring


increased loss of selfrelated


as one begins to sense into the shallower end of layer 2 there is a quality of stillness that feels deeper than or more real than the mind and its contents


layer three that really resonates


you can perform the nonduality test that you saw and many of the videos where we ask


layer four is less than optimal for a lot of functioning


presence would generally be more layer three but can absolutely be layer two


it sounds a lot to me like youre rooted primarily in layer three as your dominant layer


theres spaciousness at another point theres the body at another point


and just going back and forth between duality


i think im more prone to experiencing layer three


like if it sucked then id get out of it in fact it can lead to discomfort because enough time passes and deadline pressure builds and people want my attention for things and


in location 1 layer 4 art is not just seen but felt each creation a window into the artists soul and the collective unconscious


feeling of spaciousness or just layer two


and now youve got this very multidimensional highly fluid system thats operating from probably at least what you could think of at the moment as like layer five or deeper and able to access qualities of at least down to location three could be to where youre getting some access to agency some access to the impersonal love


location 4 an even more pronounced change


it makes me wonder if like some part of the layer one identity has discovered that this is a way that it can


most of europe around the barrio in the room or if im at home theres you know theres theres trees in the garden i look outside the windows and and it goes a bit further yeah


feel i always have a some level of fundamental wellbeing even in stress and illness


there isnt a looker here


i think you know exactly where youre at from it and where stuff is going to unfold for the course


its really a direct experience and i think you are having you know even from location one the sense of layer three


you know have aspirations of going to something like location two


inside is the same as outsideit is equally present everywhere


um so so when we were just by the way when we refer to the godhead its usually used in the context of layer four of location three right its just a term that a lot of people seem to use to refer to that experience i think because you know theres such a prominent experience of the divine for those people who get a divine experience in location three that you know when they go beyond that to sort of layer four where beyond all distinction just like beyond the divine beyond god whatever you called the god


its very different than layer four location four layer four type of stuff which is more freedom


a default layer two that might be a little bit more shallow than the depth of layer two that you get into when youre just relaxing sinking in


divine or being in union


active in your experience or in your nervous system


in most cases layer 1 is readily accessible in location 2 as is the case with other earlier locations therefore typically finders in layer 1 of location 2 will experience some selfreferential thoughts along with a mix of positive and negative emotions


memories spontaneously arise less often and theres no possibility of anything beyond it or any thing being outside of it


mean was the anger


agency


so youre saying you have no thoughtsyes my mind is completely silent what is one plus one two did you watch the presidential debate last nightyesdo you have a favorite candidateusually i vote democrat but im leaning towards the other person this timewhyi think his position on something i consider important is more inline with my viewbut again you say you have no thoughtscorrectand no sense that there is an individual yourighthmmmits easy to see how an exchange like this one can be somewhat baffling it took a great deal of careful probing experimentation and analysis to unravel and come to grips with seemingly contradictory statements such as those in the example above


self referential thoughts are just dead silent


permeating everything


dont have that mental abstraction


positive emotions like joy


it may still feel like you have a lot of individualness and you know thoughts and emotions and things like that and thats perfectly fine because all of that can continue to exist at layer one


much less affected by self


i looked into a bit of attachment theory and then i so i sat down the first of the month you know to do the exercise you know i literally got an airbnb in the forest for a week and said i would just go through the finders book go through the wheres the locations book and just start writing stuff down so i started writing stuff down and then i kept just getting super triggered so i just took a pillow and i just like hugged a pillow for like ten hours a day for the whole week and i think it was must have been an attachment theory thing because when i started feeling safe certain triggers started coming up and then boom instead of the trigger you know me like going into safety mode it just ended up releasing and then i must have been a week ago found myself in location three four and you know not for a few minutes but for a more consistent period of time a couple of days so now i think im a little further back down in location two later three


loneliness


that fullness is basically permeating and infusing the experience


mind


the reintegration of layer 3 on the path of humanity allows these finders to return to feeling more human while those on the path of freedom continue in the direction of location 4 which feels profoundly alien and out of phase with the world


and i can if i want to i can play with layer one more be more active with


because of the profound experience of love joy and compassion in location 3 the mind tends to be biased by the very positive affective state


flow of movement


huge fullness


from a location two perspective


so much so that it made me think its almost unusual for someone to have this nice a deconditioning process without having jumped over to location two and maybe not knowing it


and then when i drop in when im in nature which is every day i live in the jungle and i go down to the river every day and when i drop in and i dont have all the practical kind of oh i have to schedule this or do that then theres a deepening of the stillness that happens and an expansion


and i liked your suggestion of start doing mini as youre walking around or driving or parked at the lights or something just do mini in and out too because with a strong layer one which i had for a long time i can see how i really need to be on the ball with this


sympathy


in layer three that youre able to access now and really sinking into those as much as you can um do you have like can you sink into the direction of that meta emotion like are there qualities of love joy compassion that are accessible to you in layer three


layer two standpoint


you know darkness is never really described as darkness unless its just absolutely pitch black its just described as dim and the objects that are still in perception to somebody in location five


you experience layer two what is it that makes you say oh no im pretty sure i experienced at least some of layer two


hard to see their perspective or to know what they want or feel if they dont state it directly


i just am or you know whatever people however they kind of put words to that but youre describing it as well the self is just gone because your reference point for the term self is your ordinary sense of kind of individual or personal self at layer one


joy is always my weak spot


further in locations


location 1 finders often become much less interested in the stories the people around them tell


spaciousness emptiness


so in location three its generally one wouldnt have personal emotion so that includes most you know basically negative emotion even things like personal love um theres really just that impersonal or universal love joy compassion that composes that meta emotion so thats what im sort of digging into


me vastness and spaciousness feel equivalent um emptiness you know i just really like the sound of it i like the descriptions of it you know even im a long time buddhist practitioner and i wont say scholar but ive done a lot of study and i remember hearing teachings that if one feels a spontaneous joy and affinity to the teachings on emptiness and thats a sign that you have past life experience and thats thats considered a very good sign


sense of christ god andor the holy


silent beingness that is observing experience


it feels like it is everywhere there is nowhere it is notyet it is not localized anywhere and it does not have spatial dimensionality so also feels like it is nowhere


in location 1 layer 4 the journey of selfdiscovery is honored each persons path seen as vital to the weave of the whole


awareness have spaciousness


and no apparent sense of agency or ability to


spaciousness and the emptiness being accessible and then you know


using words like emptiness


strategizing


divine quality


spaciousness


despite these reports none of this seems to impact their ability to perform at very high levels


to layer one


if theres a sense of more of a field of presence or and um kind of all pervading field or fullness then that could be um some aspects of layer three


when youre even when youre just using like if youre using for instance theres a method where like somebody just comes and holds you in a very loving way and eventually you find yourself sobbing in their arms you have no idea why youre sobbing and you know whatever else and its its just sort of this preverbal thing and theres really not that many people in the world that can even get somebody to you know have that experience


makes them even less reactive


theres a very spaciousness quality to that moment


layer one more accessible strangely


i saw in your document you said its been ten years since your first glimpse of fundamental well being


transitioned to location 1


from a purely nondual sense and location


most of the time curious and open rather than fearful


obviously there is a locus for the scene and for the hearing but you know youve been through that before with many people


it becomes more difficult to access layer 3 and to return to previous locations this is even more so the case for location 5 and later finders


if your attention is more on what youre doing or on the mind doesnt necessarily mean that your perception has gone nondual as has gone dual you could still be experiencing it all as one field of experience arising but have your attention primarily on the mind content in that field of experience


location 3 does not have this divine component for everyone


recently some christian finders have started to discuss it for decades the noted catholic mystic bernadette roberts 19312017 documented some of this later territory because she found it largely lacking in the christian mystical literature her writings catalogue a personal struggle to make location 4


also really just making a very hard and stressful and abrasive work environment slash job feel completely fine


with the peaceful


i dont think youre sensing anything


theres a deep peace but it can be suppressed by triggered conditioning which is indicative of just the layer four but not location four thing


felt correct regardless of whether it seemed to


exercise layer one verbal logical rational facility


isolated there or kind of not really aware of layer one um and you you are still aware of layer one then it would show up


its like things are appearing in it its like the water in the pool but without the the edges of the pool the waters just there


wonderful life


location three brings other ancillary issues with it


boston retreats are so great for glimpses theyve got that down i really do


so theres just these ranges of different types of experience and theyre all you know theyre all perfectly fine


thats that combination of love and compassion and joy


i think its layer two we dug in as much as we felt we needed to until we were convinced okay theyre talking about layer two you do that until you reach that point period so youre always always going for clarity with people until youre sure that youre understanding what theyre talking about and that youre matching them up with in this case the matrix


it feels just kind of like it is what it is


nondual way


this is a complete openness of everything that that that is happening around and just to complete okayness with that and trust that that things are just developing in the way they should and its so less less agency its just its just just happening and its yeah its good to be there yeah


if the only reason youre doubting it is because it was temporary then it probably just was a temporary experience of location four um its all you know youre not saying anything that sounds vague or uncertain theres no sense of the divine a sense of self no sense of agency no emotion including no love


peace and silence


its accessible when im in a deeper silence and stillness its accessible


something is triggering you and you mentioned the triggers that you do describe that happen very infrequently


blister action more like what is the very foundational stillness within it and the senselessness of it um so those are kind of the qualities of the really the deepest reaches of of layer three


fighting the gravity of layer one in your system at the moment because its triggering it


so even in fundamental well being its so funny


seeking control


can kind of manufacture emptiness if i say this is a so this may be maybe this is going back to layer two um emptiness


the remaining psychological conditioning at layer 1 keeps the peace of fundamental wellbeing pushed to the background most of the time especially when someone has recently transitioned


be like it was before it could never be because that was out of fundamental wellbeing to begin with


you talk about having space around the motions watching them come and go


where someone at location 1 on the continuum might have a short outburst and make a brief hand gesture individuals


like ill do if im trying to do location three at the same time i guess thats why you guys recommend just devoting


if youre in location one you dont want to be locking yourself into layer one right


this refers to experiencing the world as no longer colored by the narrativeself from the new viewpoint of fundamental wellbeing especially from location 2 on


layer one is probably just trying to hold them back with what its doing


one of the things most finders notice first is a reduction in their interest in nearly all stories


so what youre describing there is primarily rootedness in layer one which might be happening in location one


remained unconscious or who had serious difficulties with the function of their bodies for periods of days weeks and even longer after moving into one of these locations


theres a significant amount of richness in the human experience


so it comes on immediately i can sink straight into it but its subtle and faint at first and then it begins to to deepen um it starts off as a stillness but just a gentle superficial stillness and and then the then the the feeling of well theres a theres a feeling of presence which is there all the time anyway


psychic intuitive empathetic type of awakening


layer 4 will initially be sensed as an even deeper stillness or silence than that of layer 3


mist


i noticed like i was a little concerned when you said it might be location one im like oh no i want location two so there is this kind of things that come up all the time and even though ive become like really aware of them its just it just still comes up and i still experience it and there is like there is some a little bit of a feedback loop if there is some frustration with that oh again so thats that feels like layer one at layer two


the unfolding does not happen in anything rather it is total and complete in itself


they often value helping others and work to maintain social graces that allow them to do that


there is still a sense of self but it feels formless impersonal and in union with the allpervading presence


it becomes more difficult access to layer 3 and to return to previous locations


in one spot i am spaciousness


expansion of sense of self


finders often assume this is something to go beyond but it is just the nature of layer 1 and if subjective experience is centered there this  quality of a more individualized or personal self naturally arises


its aliveness


there was no agency