so if i do if i meditate in a certain way i have meditated and it happens and i drop into more of a kind of equalized more still flat perception i would say or just not not perhaps not maybe not flat but its like dropping into a different dimension if you could say that like thats not really its not about the physical that much anymore as much as its a different its like residing in a different field that is more quiet and peaceful and if i sink in in my day to day life i can also go go pretty quickly to that straight away actually but i again i guess i choose not to because again somewhere along the way i think one of my teachers emphasized also feeling the fullness but thats analysis for something else but yeah ive experienced that quite a few times


location 4 individuals often use the word freedom to refer to their dominant ongoing experience


no divine


vibrancy


absolute


like a weighted blanket kind of pressure so guess it feels a little heavy but in a in a desirable kind of way


no agency


spaciousness


sometimes a spaciousness


do you stay at sort of more of a dominant place of layer two


fullness


so it feels like its outside the fullness trying to poke into it or does it feel like its in the fullness somehow


default way that fundamental wellbeing


having vanished for these participants


the nonduality the way it showed up


if there is none present that maybe my default is layer two


can can kind of manufacture emptiness if i say this is a so this may be maybe this is going back to layer two um emptiness


typically only feel a single positive emotion


stillness


like that state of like everything is just great everything is just perfect like how they say before enlightenment


falling out all the way out of fundamental wellbeing


layer three seems to come up only after ive like relaxed enough to let go of that conditioning so like i would sit for ten 15 minutes and then i feel that all these sensations in my hands my head my legs usually are they just dissolve and theres nothing left and then there is just like oh there is this peace and everything is just perfect and i dont really get that fullness experience but maybe thats just a semantic thing but there is a feeling of joy and just a flow and everything is just amazing and nothing really bothers me


spaciousness sounds more accessible than emptiness


its like its like im kind of feeling the room that im in for example like literally actually kind of feeling it and theres a sense of ease and and the liveness and and also you know if i relax my perception ive been able to do this for ten 15 years one day it just happened in a moment you know if i relax my perception it feels like im seeing waves of energy so in the room and kind of just perceiving that around people or just you know just looking straight ahead um so i feel like on different levels perceptually im kind of picking up on things there as well and that doesnt feel empty it feels quite full in that sense yeah


special abilities such as being able to read minds see the past and future heal the sick and so forth as strange as they may sound levitation passing part or all of ones physical body through a solid object disappearing manifesting unusual visual phenomena such as a glowing light pushing a solid object through a different one and manifesting objects from thin air are mentioned across many traditions because some aspects of this were covered in the chapter on location 5


layer three of location two because youll be experiencing some sort of separation some sort of union


emptiness


i would have to say probably not its just that i think that the mind gets so active in trying to kind of like very quickly come up with things to say or stuff like that that it can feel like


from from layer three


you say youre most interested in obtaining fluidity with locations two


conditioning standpoint


location 1


so youre saying too because im you know youve watched some of these and youve seen the perceptual thing and youve identified presumably that there is no looker and no listener


stillness for you is a good way of accessing layer three


tilted considerably


yeah so that you know thats there you know i have excellent night vision you know people will go camping and if we go for a hike and a trail and a dark trail people will have flashlights id be like shut those flashlights off you know and they cant see but i can see its like i can see better without the flashlights on and then a few you know sort of you know issues have been like i would be sitting and the the visual field would say half of my box on the zoom call right would start to fill with light and be just wavy and so half was you know normal and half was was light filled and so that happened a few times so ive had sort of those quirky things dont experience the luminosity i think you mentioned that on the call i kind of see a halo effect but its not the way you youve spoken about things being luminous


no love


um and then when you were talking about like think layer four in your presentation in the six hour class and you were talking about


and location two and its sort of like a very nice functional place in location two


some of the things in terms of location two


commonly perceived all of these layers


happy


nonduality and location two


joy love and the divine as indicatorsjoy is another common indicator that is used as feedback by some in locations 2 and 3


layer one is probably just trying to hold them back with what its doing


the great thing that you moved in the direction of jesus because you know his his followers are a lot more about union


remained unconscious or who had serious difficulties with the function of their bodies for periods of days weeks and even longer after moving into one of these locations


so what youre describing there is primarily rootedness in layer one which might be happening in location one


me vastness and spaciousness feel equivalent um emptiness you know i just really like the sound of it i like the descriptions of it you know even im a long time buddhist practitioner and i wont say scholar but ive done a lot of study and i remember hearing teachings that if one feels a spontaneous joy and affinity to the teachings on emptiness and thats a sign that you have past life experience and thats thats considered a very good sign


because then that shift happened i realized that i had a lot less interest in my personal story and other stories and it was not like nondual it


that resulted in participants reporting a sense of


you say that when youre doing the medieval mystical chant you feel very centered and connected with divine spirit


um simply because youve you possibly had a lot of experiences of layer three in location two that are already quite location three like and what you want to somehow get is a glimpse of that sense of union


locations 1 generally experience a full range of emotions


spaciousness


the more im noticing the unpleasantness of being verbal logical rational the more im noticing but not minding the egoic activity of other people you know violent communication and projection of anxiety and those kinds of things


centerless beingness


approvalseeking conversations


fullness


i think this life purpose thing is one of the things that changed after going to location four


experiencing layer two


love and joy


it sounds more like containing


duality with location one


because their own emotions arent influencing the situationas weve seen in this chapter peace or the disturbance of it is often of utmost importance to the success of finders committed relationships


the feelings of union with divinity or an allpervasive consciousness also disappear


all right um so you mentioned your goal is first uh location to layer three so it sounds like youve got that already of course theres always more to explore


youve talked about how the layer four is the most primitive part of the brain and and just the other day when i was i think having kind of a glimpse of it i felt more like a crocodile you know like like im just here like ready to you know eat whatever comes across my path and and thats about it you know im not im not like pondering this question im having right now about the human the purpose of my existence as a crocodile


like my body is still responding like you know typical male hormonal cycle so ill wake up in the morning and its like my body is is primed that way so you know i can see my body is is there for it and its there if i go if im curious im like i wonder what itd be like to try and think about this you know think about sex and its like okay i can kind of bring that on its still there yeah so i still have access to it im noticing kind of so this is a little bit of an aside but it does fit there was a little bit of an abundance thing i had going on just after transitioning and its really kind of taken on more of an aesthetic flavor and the last little while i dont know how to where to pin it exactly in calendar time but probably in the last month or six weeks or something so this kind of fits with that i even i even had this intuition the other day you know monks and nuns dress a certain way not because that was to enforce behavior or enforce kind of this neutrality but for people who had realized something that would have been an outward expression of more of this celestial kind of quality at least from a you know at least what ive seen of that


and i did have 1 or 2 experiences of where everything was totally flat and when i looked and thought oh i recognize you but it was gone then the next minute but um i knew based on what you guys had said that thats something that can can happen and i did i did ayahuasca a few years back oldest person there but did have the experience of the luminosity and i also had the experience of a tree talking to me so based on on that i use that sometimes as a thread to go back to that luminosity to start


so i would save that one for when you do want to explore location four and just not use it until that point


its possible so the term presence could you know people can very much use that for layer two that term is very generic in some ways definitely has the most resonance with layer three but layer two can be described that way and the way youre describing it you know it being everything and containing everything or everything being within it showing up within it is more a layer two type of description


layer three this sense of like you know a field of something or some substance to stuff seems not at all there


yeah its like sinking in but specifically usually sinking into the senses and the body like in a more very direct way like leaving everything else behind and like boom going to seeing to hearing to sensing in a very like direct way that thats what usually brings it about


you know the it can be worth thinking into for some people if they get that sense of aliveness in the body that if you just really sink into it for some people that can open up deeper aspects of layer three stillness the silence beneath that aliveness kind of has a depth to it


and now i think you you know its given you access or just as a function of deepening and fundamental wellbeing whatever it is it has given you access and produced a shift to the to deeper parts of fundamental wellbeing


so its always functioning from a kind of separate perspective if youre paying attention to it


i feel like nothing there


location 4 since it often conflicts with deeply held beliefs and ideologies though again its important to note that there usually isnt a sense of agency involved to the finder it appears as if the debate and subsequent rejection just happen


no i think its a different thing than its related to location two layer three


you have a proclivity to bringing that in to second guessing everything to all of that heavily influenced in your layer one


the layer three content or materials are in the courtroom as well


i feel like really just im in layer one i think when im busy


path of freedom


theres very little layer two in it have you ever had an experience that was solely layer two you know like really just emptiness without a sense of fullness


at this point much of this has been backed up by neuroimaging all of this knowledge tells us that in most cases theres no reason that the changes have to cluster the way they dofor example it may be possible to reliably create a new location that involves the single emotion of location 3 and the absence of agency found in location 4


the second one the path of humanity poh bears a greater resemblance to earlier locations


divine


the big changes in my life its clear looking back there was no agency because i couldnt as a stealth done them i couldnt have left separated from my wife i couldnt i couldnt do it it was when i had a deep enough sense that the door opened and i walked out i used to work on wall street could have never left that if it wasnt you know the door opened and i walked out theres been so theres a sense in the deeper looking oh there just is life coming through isnt that amazing but when you get into minutia its a more of a challenge because i dont live life doesnt flow freely yet through here so in that sense theres a sense of agency still but it is much much less


layer three infused experience where theres a sense of fullness within the emptiness or presence of emptiness


feeling of connectedness and union


yeah yeah i think so yeah


location 3


that that seems to draw me into the present moment to stillness a sense of presence


spaciousness


and layer two of location one


location two


this includes very lowlevel brain processes such as dissolution and reassembly of how the senses are perceived


im not sure how successful that will be because my spreadsheet mainly has where people are at not oh they were wrong about the fact that they werent in layer one


layer three in location two


emotionless


lets start by seeing if its location one


freedom part


layer two is sometimes more effective for that


increased loss of selfrelated


religious finders usually experience an intense union with the divine this creates a deep certainty within them involving their faith and is generally validated by their tradition as correct its sudden absence can be jarring and convince them that something has gone wrong even though their wellbeing and sense of freedom have increased


emptiness


you know in your experience you may not be experiencing those as strongly as you otherwise would without being in layer three and having you know sort of the experience of layer three


celestial standpoint


obviously on location three in the sort of the degree of it that you have which is a very sort of worship y you know intense in a way kind of experience of of the divine aspect of it you know theres all sorts of encounters with things that can be like reported as angels and stuff like that so basically entities are not a strange thing to have reported people dont usually say theyre extraterrestrials but i dont know whats going on in the brain per se around that but my guess is you know different you know different representations of whatever showing up for different stuff i remember this years ago i was back


and so theres a gravity thats you know making you want to experience fundamental wellbeing a certain way instead of experience that more constricted state that goes along with where headless way usually put someone and you just have to decide you know im going to ignore that gravity


fullness


im very joyful like everything is like dreamy joyful and warm and loving


location 5


so would it be accurate to say that when youre there your sense of what you are is that presence of fullness pervading everything


happy kid


single positive meta emotion of love


seems as though youre perceiving times and we do it visually and auditorily just because thats clear as a bell perception wise you dont have to wonder about things like sense of self or any sort of words that can be squishy you know either its visually or auditorily perceived that way or its not so it seems like you know you had three distinct experiences visually one is of a locus of a seer behind your eyes sort of the standard thing that humans have which arises especially with thought and stuff like that and then one that can also arise it seems like when youre thinking but that is aware of everything is just arising visually but there is a sense of well its arising out there and im here and its arising out there kind of thing those are both location one type experiences


deeper into layer three


i dont think a lot of people would necessarily use those words okay some people use them and sure think if you if you have the experience in a very complete way which means identity has shifted into being that all pervading field of presence um then probably if you read that you could be like okay i could describe it this way um but awareness is a very its a very general term and some people will use that to describe layer two or so


when did you transition to fundamental wellbeing


a correct choice or path in every situation


joy bliss and sometimes just expansion like really just limitless expansion and letting go of


flatness


layer one i will feel that my thoughts are very real my problems are very real and theres a lot of dangers in the future


but its definitely in the direction of layer four and in the direction of location four


a finder cannot feel merged with an outside force like god if s  he is experiencing nondual perception because the person would not have a sense of anything existing outside of him or herself to merge with


nonduality


they are also less likely to actively call up as many memories as they did before their transition


and then goes up to layer two in location one


responsibilities in my life


right and so you know thoughts are completely real the divine is completely real when youre experiencing it from my perspective right its almost like youre taking some sort of filter and youre blocking access to things and then when you remove that filter those things are still there just because you are blocking access to things doesnt mean they actually go away it just means that youre turning a blind eye towards them you know it just means that youre sort of filtering them out and not observing them thats a very unusual perspective within fundamental wellbeing


i think i remember reading your childhood thing and your pastor thing um let me said it felt like getting lost and ending up on material earth so thats you know that can be in the direction of it for sure but that can also just to some degree be a finder thing as well in some cases even as early as location one


empty


no not that and because youre defaulting a lot to layer one


focused


nondual


so you know you said that layer three maybe sounded interesting


you know a lot of identity built up in your system around layer three versions of fundamental wellbeing


and so you know and even like you know its not often that someone uses the word felt like hell right being constantly frustrated upset at everything you know as a result of the intensity of you know trying to reprogram your system decondition your system you know all of that and so clearly youve got a lot of stuff down there at layer one that that wants to anchor you there


just get a sense that maybe i should do that you know maybe thats what the system needs um it seems like systems fundamental wellbeing systems do


emptiness


personal sense of self


in location three there was a certain clarity that i dont have now because it was like less commotion or deadness because like the love would infuse every thought so a thought would come up and instead of me where i am right now i dont want to deal with it it would just be like oh its okay its lets lets just sit with it and the loving feeling would just infuse every thought and then certain judgments that id have oh well i dont really need to look at it that way i can well i can just put love in this or i can just love it so that that id say that was like the most stark contrast


certainly that doesnt preclude you working on layer three


from layer three most of the time


in contrast the location three type qualities are more related to the obviously that meta emotion so love joy compassion particularly if they have you know the more impersonal qualities of those


goals can abruptly change or remain the same out of habit or after careful reanalysis


being nondual


and what youll see is if you were to just take those instructions and then just view them as more of a longitudinal practice eventually you would sort of systematically work your way through everything all of the memories you would even eventually get to the point where youre working on the self to some degree which might be a little trickier for you in location two obviously those instructions are designed for people that are not in fundamental wellbeing


often feel that they dont commit much information about their daily life to memory


it infuses experience most of the time


emptiness of vastness


you say the sense of presence that is calm vibrant and alive can be like a loud silence theres a sense of electricity in the air for some reason its much easier to notice in a natural setting outdoors outdoors with your eyes open it seems to hang in the air with my eyes closed its very hard to describe theres a scintillating energy that is in my body but not defined by the edges of my body no boundary has a sense of aliveness it feels like an energy field its like a constant hum like the hum you hear an electrical station its a metaphor of course it doesnt literally hum when i focus on it i start to notice a feeling tone it has a joy and a positivity a contentment warmth glow


that s kind of pushing you back into your default because youre not sinking into those experiences and the question isnt necessarily putting you straight into like layer four where theres no self whatsoever


presence


i was bouncing back from location four i feel peaceful


and so perhaps stillness or silence is one direction spaciousness or that sense of it containing everything everything just arising spontaneously within it whatever it is


m starting to play around with the space between objects so that just to see how if i can move the perceptions it seems like this is all it seems like its all new to me


i would also be very surprised if as part of this process you werent also getting glimpses of time and location three


a place of like a deep safety


merger


location 3 participants reported the experience


spacious emptiness


i think i was doing 45 days so that was like two years ago


emptiness


emotion


its more like 21 so mostly layer one as i am still very much in the world and not so out there doing stuff


fullness or awareness


totally path of humanity


location 4


i noticed you said in some moments the center of a hair seems to fall away and a pervading boundaryless field is weakly present everywhere so it does sound like youre having a centerless layer three deeper layer three experience sometimes


things are rewiring at that level and the sense of self is being somehow pulled out of all of that you know and in such a way that even if you go back to like location 2


emotions


so possibly in that direction thats one of our qualities that we look for for a very deep experience of layer three yeah its clearly somewhere deeper than what youre usually access in terms of having the greater sense of serenity or stillness and feeling just generally more like present theres


spaciousness


pervasive consciousness


no motion no love


openness


i think yeah its more like the things are there and i can also when i close my eyes see colors or just theyre just there its not not its just there i think there are times during my day when that shifts or changes when im really engaged in work or something but right now it just feels like its there


modulation of joy


divine love


so if it were like for instance location three layer two you know it would be a spacious emptiness mixed with the divine or the panpsychist presence or whatever which is kind of a distance from god you know kind of a separation in a way


stillness does it feel like the spaciousness contains everything or where is the spaciousness


it does actually go back to layer two


agency


divine


and then you reference location for for like days off like walks in the forest parks


layer two that thats spaciousness of that distance


possibly location five


so you do get a sense of spaciousness


love


seems as though youre perceiving times and we do it visually and auditorily just because thats clear as a bell perception wise you dont have to wonder about things like sense of self or any sort of words that can be squishy you know either its visually or auditorily perceived that way or its not so it seems like you know you had three distinct experiences visually one is of a locus of a seer behind your eyes sort of the standard thing that humans have which arises especially with thought and stuff like that and then one that can also arise it seems like when youre thinking but that is aware of everything is just arising visually but there is a sense of well its arising out there and im here and its arising out there kind of thing those are both location one type experiences


i dont think youre going to have any issue being a highly experienced divorce attorney in location three


of joy or is it the aliveness


fundamental wellbeing standpoint


spaciousness


big distinction is often in the sense of whether or not there is a union or a merging or a dissolving into or a sameness or you know and and no difference from and i am sort of you know that presence that shows up you know you know to borrow your word from a minute ago channeling jesus you know you know is you know is is there a merger or a union with jesus


and now i think you you know its given you access or just as a function of deepening and fundamental wellbeing whatever it is it has given you access and produced a shift to the to deeper parts of fundamental wellbeing


still experience a range of positive and negative emotions


experience of spaciousness that youre experimenting with the sense of some emptiness that you can get when you close your eyes


extreme glitches


it sounds very plausible i think being lonely is one thing if i just sit there in my apartment you know and become more and more still and around boredom or being boring


nondual space


they often value helping others and work to maintain social graces that allow them to do that


sparkly


a subjectobject split or individuated sense of


sort of then the fullness can start to come in


thing that individual sense of self you know that has an identity at layer one even in location two


that can be useful to give you a sense of what to sink into um and yeah totally if you think you had a sense of union there at that retreat then when youre working with layer three


location 2


no agency


layer one can have that sort of individual sense of self arising as part of that one field of experience


experience of senselessness might


sense of self at layer one


sense of spaciousness or emptiness or spacious emptiness


love joy and compassion


temporary fundamental wellbeing


fundamental wellbeing


so it s lately it s when things are quieting down so it s so the last two weeks it has been very very busy so it s ive been more in location one


and i was thinking oh right you know im not seeing my therapist im not doing emdr for a while maybe this is when ill do the three weeks in location four


and it also sounds like youre able to shift your sense of self into layer two with some focus on layer two and really sinking into it


and id say like the joy maybe not as much the compassion but really that it was like the joy kept coming out


and so in location three there is and youre going between the two most subtle possible places you know potentially location wise


emotion


just everything and this happened to me like every time im sinking like deep


that sense of being presence being presence and being everywhere


so in the fullness just feels really full


into your you know move into your phobias around all of this stuff right got it and those phobias you know i often tell people theyll see if you watch some of these videos youll see me saying this you know that includes location one as far as im concerned


i have no idea but i sense sound that doesnt appear to be audible to other people right so its not coming in from here but when im zoomed out im aware that even in these spaces that i move through where think the typical word would be silence theres actually booming sound theres maybe sound isnt even the right word maybe frequencies i dont know so i feel less confined when it comes to processing sound


youve already won the lottery your system is wired for it youre deep in it you can go to you can experience layer one and


of feel feel a bit more emotional for some reason like like when you say that when you know


and so thats a way that at any given time you can sort of see where youre at see where your progress is going in terms of locking in location two if you want to lock in location two you know or go in the direction of remaining more nondual and its just the pure perceptual sense of it both auditorily and visually


former sense of self that fell away


location 2


but location four feels very dimensional compared to location 7 or 8


i just see things as thing nonliving material


nothingness


i think sometimes i glimpse location three every couple every now and then


yes so it not lasting long that isnt necessarily an indication of it not being location four because you could have just had a temporary experience of location four


there is a sense of an allpervasive consciousness what philosophers call a panpsychist experience


a sense of pervading fullness fullness that permeates everything you say you often have a subtle sense of this sometimes so subtle that you wonder if youre imagining it


location 4 appears to be a logical progression


problem at its level if that if that actually is its level if you have access to a greater range of fundamental wellbeing thats outside of it sort of like its better to pick meditation methods that work on the brain not in the brain


deeply into nonduality and location two


but it certainly sounds like for at least a lot of or most of your life youve been in fundamental wellbeing and that actually really changes the patterns of fundamental wellbeing um because you know ordinarily people go through a certain range of development as an individualized sense of self and then they transition to fundamental wellbeing wherever they transition however they transition and in a way those patterns that were laid down during the individual during the time pre fundamental wellbeing in a way kind of standardize the developmental track across people that are in fundamental wellbeing after that and so what we find when people have been in fundamental wellbeing for their whole life is that its its a bit like the wild


joy


its not necessarily because its temporary and because the reference point is remaining at layer one um its kind of its not necessarily reflecting on and deepening into the sense of actually being that all pervading presence even though that is your subjective experience if i ask you about it yeah


you have an opportunity to communicate to your system that youre a little bit more friendly with leaving access to layer one


so the reason i say mostly is because i have had deeper experiences of the nonduality so even the nonduality i feel now theres still because i have deeper experiences of it i dont know if probably deep deep location too because there was still a little agency or emotion or maybe just temporary elements of going further theres still my system just still sees that theres still that like within that nonduality theres still a duality


flatness


like ill do if im trying to do location three at the same time i guess thats why you guys recommend just devoting


freedom and exploration or whether its around a sense of really getting to a place where it doesnt matter where im at um or to a place where its like okay this is the sense of fluidity


the access that where im at in fundamental wellbeing you should come


location 3


spirit


weve heard bliss weve heard pure bliss weve heard pure joy um


emptiness or spaciousness


sense of beingness


peace continued to deepen


so so the negative thoughts will stop and the negative feelings will become sensation and and not its not that uncomfortable anymore i can stay with the sensation for a long time


awareness layer or in the in layer two were just going to well call it layer two


freedom of movement


fundamental wellbeing


yeah so that definitely seems like a good direction for this this the next two weeks or whatever since were working on layer two


empty


try to see if you can get an identity of you as being that sense of presence and you know infinite field and you know all of that


panpsychist presence


emotions


the spaciousness of it sounds spacious or feels spacious yeah it just feels stupid i guess we need to like wire me up to some kind of in some neuroscience lab and see if i have if im showing the right activity and inactivity in the right brain regions that would actually be interesting corroborating evidence i dont know how i would match up and maybe this is all totally diluted and ive never been in fundamental wellbeing and have you know this ambition thats expressing through my fabricated experience anyway


false assumption


field of presence


location 2 involves a form of nondual experience


its very good its sort of distracting me and pulling me out of one of the physiological responses that seemed to go along with my own deeper dives into fundamental wellbeing at the time


advocate going to location 4


peaceful abandonment


its kind of like its always there regardless of the type of nonduality


but initially it seems like there s just no possibility from location seven of any duality or any further deepening and then that happens and youre just like that sounds like location eight and that s definitely a place that s very hard to function from people that are there persistently or basically attended to


think with pure peace just the calmness there would be more spacious calm stillness


conditioning


they may notice less interest in their friends coworkers and even their family members and try to get them to interact in ways that are more interesting


ability of the thoughts that did remain to draw


positive flow


location 2 they almost exclusively experience positive emotions


so even in fundamental well being its so funny


they may still be working on environmental causes and can be very passionate about helping others reach fundamental wellbeing


like when i met when i meditate or if i do someone noting im always saying im being being a lot


spaciousness


and also just um like kind of steering it away from the location for qualities of like samples


yeah its this sense of aliveness its kind of like its kind of weird to say but theres just like a towel hanging in front of it on the chair like in front of me and it seems like it is becoming alive in a way im sure you heard a lot of things but its kind of like this towel is alive like in a real sense like smiling at me i dont want to sound too crazy but there is like a communication going on and not with words and not like something here and something there but just this sense of everything becoming more present a strong sense of presence


the direct experience that it is all just one thing and is all unfolding


sense of beingness


location 4


location 5


so i think exactly what youre saying you know we can generate a looker if we want to or that sense to some degree probably not a full on looker but we can generate that sense to some degree its usually on the weaker side compared to when it was the iron grip of our perception and thats fine you know that allows us to know that its that the hearing you know allows us to know that its most likely nonduality


meta emotion of love joy passion


its likely that there is a mechanism in the brain that is responsible for this form of learning


emptiness


so you might be more in that direction in the sense that you get that profound sense of peace and very little affect in that deeper place in layer three in location two then then you know and thats thats fine but if you want the love joy version of it um you may need to either try to bias your system in that direction by you know seeing if you can call up the love joy sort of qualities that tends to be a little bit shallower in layer


would call divine is this presence and with that is that love and joy and compassion


and then i usually become aware of some some sort of tension somewhere in the body and then as i keep my attention it just starts releasing and thats and so that experience makes me think that its its assuming that this experience of relaxing releasing conditioning thats so so i think thats the conditioning that keeps me in that layer one and


fullness


sense of the divine


i went into work was very cheerful and effective at work that day


identification that can occur at the layer one experience


sense of self


freedom


so lets see okay so for example im looking at the computer screen so the nonduality like the location to nonduality


that fullness


sense of emptiness


world was unable to be any other way


because three is not a nondual location


but that person also had the access still had access to location one


so did it have a sense of senselessness


fundamental wellbeing


pulled back to probably layer one


presence would generally be more layer three but can absolutely be layer two


sensation which is separate to other universe mind bodies in a sense this is where ive got to be very careful because you know with the with the medicine journeys like the and i dont know whether this is the different like layers locations and so on but ive had so many different experiences there


spaciousness


i think it feels like the the sounds are just there there is always conceptual layers of like oh this sound is from here this sound is from there or this sound means that but if i try to go as deep as possible into just the sounds it feels like theyre just there its not yeah that doesnt seem to be im also trying to like remember what it was like before then there was a like a specific or here i cant really recall that that experience so nothing to compare to


its more like spaciousness and yeah when im deep in there its like im this space im just this space and everything is arising in it even me


if you the degree to which you want a lot of fluidity is more or less the degree to which youre willing to resist various gravities that show up at different points in fundamental wellbeing


who have moved back and forth between locations often observe that each location brings a distinct flavor of truth


i would describe myself now as a presence


is your body located in the fullness and the hows that hows it spatially


from close to that place and kind of maybe sync zoom in a bit but you can essentially live probably a lot of your life from a place like that


nondual


christianity


so thats sort of after layer two


locations 1


there still is a sense of more of a solid identity


i looked into a bit of attachment theory and then i so i sat down the first of the month you know to do the exercise you know i literally got an airbnb in the forest for a week and said i would just go through the finders book go through the wheres the locations book and just start writing stuff down so i started writing stuff down and then i kept just getting super triggered so i just took a pillow and i just like hugged a pillow for like ten hours a day for the whole week and i think it was must have been an attachment theory thing because when i started feeling safe certain triggers started coming up and then boom instead of the trigger you know me like going into safety mode it just ended up releasing and then i must have been a week ago found myself in location three four and you know not for a few minutes but for a more consistent period of time a couple of days so now i think im a little further back down in location two later three


human experience


access to layer two


it feels very still and also very spacious


and so for that reason you might be interested in restoring some fluidity to layer two


that sentence is like textbook location for um you know context


stillness


so we narrow it down to location two its that easy


layer three can be a passive background to the activity of layer one


i still have a strong sense of a of a role to play in in the world in my in my marriage in the work that gina and i are now doing together you know im not im not ready to quote unquote retire you know and and just retreat from the world so thats thats probably the main concern and as i as i shared with you i think in an email you know some of the things you shared about the far locations you know from location three layer three they dont sound better it sounds like wait a minute im going to wake up tomorrow and im not going to have any love


if that was in location two they often did that because like they were just trying to avoid slipping back into into location one


richness


so its just that sometimes i just call it a timeline its like this timeline thats happening but it doesnt its not exclusive in any way because thats at a really low level that its happening in order in order of oh event thought decision action


yeah it could be if you feel that theres a sense of something you know in your head or behind your eyes thats looking out and stuff feels like its out there rather than it all just being one field of experience thats just youre just showing up um that would be more like location one


divine


yeah it feels full


even bad memories are often biased towards positive emotion


i dont think a lot of people would necessarily use those words okay some people use them and sure think if you if you have the experience in a very complete way which means identity has shifted into being that all pervading field of presence um then probably if you read that you could be like okay i could describe it this way um but awareness is a very its a very general term and some people will use that to describe layer two or so


location 3 a sense of deep connectedness and union enter the picture


awareness


the idea of spaciousness or is there an analog in your system in terms of the idea of silence


it doesnt sound like you have a very clear memory of that experience of union or dissolving into the divine so it might still have been location two


a new form of humor begins to emerge


okay great so thats our main test for nonduality its very clean you know its just straight perception there isnt some question around some how does your sense of self feel or something like that nonduality is a perceptual thing so it can be tested with perceptual means so we know now that youre at least in a nondual location it sounds like you have some range of emotionality you talked about how they drop off quicker but theyre obviously still present


location 4


range of emotions these individuals experience becomes increasingly positive and negative emotions become less frequent


my guess is that youre more rooted in location two than you think


sense of fullness


it can be very very powerful so thats also something that even just spending three weeks in location 3rd may do a lot for your system because that sense of divine love to experience that is very


i dont have so many self referential thoughts so it s more like an a general experience of what is happening it s not so much more that i think about what s my own agenda there is i think there s less agency as well


its the latter its become the spacious emptiness


those are those are such subjective qualities that dont necessarily apply to layer four um and so but lets go back lets go to lets go earlier here and make sure that you know you really are switching between location one and location two yeah thats a little unusual so lets make sure thats happening you actually feel like youre at times when youre in the world your system is literally going from our our nondual perception tests right which involve like a looker in here


all pervading presence


youre sort of going between location one


layer three experience


so it sounds um definitely you know interject if this doesnt sound right to you um were just trying to make sense of your way of interpreting your experience and and languaging it but it does sound like your attention is much more on the space essentially or on the the emptiness surrounding objects of perception or the space between them and because your attention is much more on that the spaciousness is almost like more in the foreground or more what your attention is centering on than the things and so the things kind of are in the background you could think of or more backgrounded than the spaciousness which produces you know this focus on the spaciousness or the emptiness in which everything is arising


sense of spaciousness


and its almost like im getting round up im getting corralled into being a me as the thoughts come and so theres no me at all when i wake up and it gets created so thats very clearly not there when i wake up


it sounds like its clearly location to to me without that sense of self behind the eyes thats the easy one it is funny how the self is bothered by its own return thats kind of entertaining isnt it its just never happy its its not happy when youre trying to make it go away its not happy when it comes back its just generally not happy


i think you know exactly where youre at from it and where stuff is going to unfold for the course


fundamental wellbeing


you know the mind and it operating in the mind is essentially operating from the perspective of there being a body you know or a system that is individualized that needs to function in an individualized way to operate in the world


you could say like layer three


lots of love


location 4 finders who experience this in committed relationships are equally fortunate


so you might even have conditioned your system to perceive it that way because youve used it as an access point for layer two by paying attention to the space rather than the content of the space


nonduality


location 3


personal emotion


fullness to experience


it can also produce a profound sense of foundational and interpenetrating spaciousness


spaciousness


very dimensional


path of freedom


the totality that was that was that was the experience


richness


path of freedom direction


so those other components are potentially there that you know can sort of come together into that composite of into that composite emotion for location three


deconditioning


finders emotional content varies despite their reduced charge in location 1 memories still have a mix of positive and negative emotions associated with them


and in layer two um theres more spaciousness theres less of when you look through your eyes theres not a sense of identity anymore more of a sense of spaciousness yeah


it takes an event of significant magnitude or the triggering of very deep and strong conditioning to make a dent in the continuous experience of location 3s dominant metaemotion


i would say i am still in location one because it can be press down and can read there are times that i need to kind of call it forward to kind of regain my equilibrium


spaciousness and stillness and emptiness qualities


when combined with the deep sense of truth that typically accompanies location 3


awareness field like presence stillness the vibrancy so theres just the fullness of course so


layer one might be in a more of a foreground on top of that but its within the container essentially of layer three in that circumstance


youre in location three i mean like you know is it bad to be more generous in a therapeutic environment you know with yourself or you know with your caring or whatever else no its not so thats fine you have one of those professions where you can be anywhere


call 3d normal processing its also habitual it helps me make sense of other experiences and it feels really very grounding that i can im more think when im when im using the physical eyes instead of other ways of seeing i its easier to to be with other people and just navigate this existence but dont identify right it doesnt feel like the sphere is personal but it seems to be a way to to use this physicality


love love love love love


so in layer two i think sometimes im affected by my sister has also taken this course and her descriptions of that sense of unity


so just just put it off for a little bit the location free stuff even if its for like a day or two or a week or whatever it is


emptiness in a way and a degree of sort of stillness and silence that is more rooted in somewhere in layer two


spaciousness emptiness presence fullness


or even location four


in layer three that youre able to access now and really sinking into those as much as you can um do you have like can you sink into the direction of that meta emotion like are there qualities of love joy compassion that are accessible to you in layer three


fullness


totally minimizing every ounce of time that they have around you know other people and not you know really talking to them that much and not doing any other activities or whatever else they can you can actually become very highly social from a fundamental wellbeing standpoint


transcend


how you describe layer two which is more like that field of nothingness the spaciousness


divine


spaciousness


i came across this this test on your website that is like asks ten questions and then tells you if youre in the middle of being or not and i remember at the time i was thinking that im probably not in fundamental wellbeing because i was just going through all this heavy conditioning that i was working with and it just wasnt fun


but the vibrancy and the richness and the aliveness and fullness and all of that are qualities of layer three those really fall away layer four


fluidity is the natural thing in fundamental wellbeing


if you went in the direction of location for fire location layer three of location two um youd sort of avoid those and really sink into the center looseness stillness silence really dissolution of any sense of self


layer three


qualities of love


seekers


the thing the thing to keep in mind is that for a system for a layer for location four especially but youre sort of close enough you know youre like a hair away from the thing type system what reading those books will do is basically prime you basically primes the system


like no sound at all


richness of layer three


d say is pretty or really the dominant state unless i really focus on location one and even then


spacious emptiness


sense of presence


god


i think spend as much time in layer two as you possibly can regardless of where at


so theres been plenty of time for for a lot of deconditioning and reconditioning to happen even at layer one


absolute


layer three of location two is where i want to be


layer two it relates to the sense of the spaciousness being everywhere being everything


like im actually experiencing some of that right now im experiencing some of that anxiety right now i feel it like theres some sort of its like a performance anxiety kind of thing


the big one of course is you know one kind of meta emotion that feels like a combination of love and joy and compassion could be some other things mixed in there depending upon life and cultural circumstances and all of that


path of freedom


location 2


an all pervading field of presence or beingness that feels profoundly rich complete full alive


im more on layer two feeling the spaciousness i think this was for sure the main place i was at and also looking to get to where when i was like in layer one mode and this is what i was looking for


and so you know and even like you know its not often that someone uses the word felt like hell right being constantly frustrated upset at everything you know as a result of the intensity of you know trying to reprogram your system decondition your system you know all of that and so clearly youve got a lot of stuff down there at layer one that that wants to anchor you there


nondual perception


i think you have to be very careful in taking a peak experience from prior to fundamental well being and trying to sort of parse it and find sort of different aspects of fundamental well being in it because youre bringing the and its its its everyone does it i think you know that has had these experiences that what sets us off on this journey right i mean these temporary experiences whether they were in drugs or whether they were just happening out of the blue for someone theyre often sort of what sets people off on a journey like this


i think maybe skip straight straight to the sense of fullness


not a divine type of love


remain aware of the fullness of the bliss of the expanded ness and simultaneously exercise the mind to be lucid and articulate and rational and logical and effective without leaving the bliss and the expansion and the and so forth


recently some christian finders have started to discuss it for decades the noted catholic mystic bernadette roberts 19312017 documented some of this later territory because she found it largely lacking in the christian mystical literature her writings catalogue a personal struggle to make location 4


i think i think the anxiety is is kind of a negative emotion that invades the emotionlessness um also some in trying to figure this all out im interested in knowing to what degree this is influenced by trauma whether its avoidant attachment style it feels like a lot of this stuff is vulnerable to kind of pre trans fantasies so is this transcendence or is this just trauma you know am i am i checking out in a dissociative trauma induced avoidant attachment space or am i spread out across the universe how are they the same how are they the different different my own explorations of trauma is i hear from people that are close to me notably my wife that she thinks that i have lots of trauma in my system but when i go look for it or try to treat it i cant find it you know i can do emdr till the cows come home and it doesnt touch it which tells me well is it really trauma or not so you know im very confused about all of this so i just wanted to inject that into this space to


i do but its but its very sort of quick and quick and its


impersonal emotion


instead a very different truth might emerge to take its place


so thats awesome um and then beyond that you are interested in potentially also getting fluid to location three


their sect


aliveness centered in your body


stillness


fundamental well being feels like resisting


i must have progressed into layer four


spaciousness


but i can see layer one acting i can i can see the mind doing its things of analyzing and planning


layer one more accessible strangely


layer four felt normalized in location four


sounds like a good direction to sink into


i can get in touch with spaciousness


layer three feeling permeates through that um and i guess the very act of investigating it also shifts my experience of it in the moment


most of the time youre probably going between location one


i have very little emotion now apart from you know just a lightness um dont really get angry even if i if something upsets me its over almost before it starts um i dont really get attached to anything ive lost a lot of sense of memory or worrying about the past or think about the future im much more in the moment um and id be tempted to say location too except i dont have that nondual aspect i dont feel like ive got that i dont feel that theres someone here really i know that theres no one here like an individual entity watching but it still seems like theres a center here so if i look back i cant say yeah its its difficult to and i can step away from that as well so i can see it myself arising and i can see whatever else is arising as well so for example when i wake up in the morning there is no me at all its just quite nice very pleasant just sort of feel myself sinking into the body feeling the sensations and then it might be a little while it might be i dont know its probably only minutes but you know then a thought will pop up and then it kind of another thought and it might be about yesterday or tomorrow


union with the divinegodetc


you can really focus that towards location three so that means focusing on the location three type qualities


so and then in addition to other more percent changes in perception and a very deep layer four type experiences that youre reporting


emotion


some christians feel that judgment is a better descriptor than compassion for that facet of the emotion when one really digs into how they mean judgment surprisingly it looks very similar to what others describe as compassion


then initially it was like dismissed that was reflecting


so if layer three hasnt been doing it for you if its its almost too far away


path of humanity


suppression of peace


go for the joy


how deep you are in layer three


full related space or a more emptiness related space or something like that


i remember then i can sense the presence as initially as one of the objects that is in and then i have to sort of relax


layer three seems to come up only after ive like relaxed enough to let go of that conditioning so like i would sit for ten 15 minutes and then i feel that all these sensations in my hands my head my legs usually are they just dissolve and theres nothing left and then there is just like oh there is this peace and everything is just perfect and i dont really get that fullness experience but maybe thats just a semantic thing but there is a feeling of joy and just a flow and everything is just amazing and nothing really bothers me


emptiness in a way and a degree of sort of stillness and silence that is more rooted in somewhere in layer two


there is one noticeable memory issue that seems to be a reliable and genuine deficit while most common with location 4


that fullness


default is more silence and more peace and more distance from thoughts and emotions you might be rooted in layer two during those times


what about the the the stuff in layer four like a sense of flatness of perception the sense that theres sort of just this


divine type


you know dont bring in any mental analysis in any layer one type stuff


should i just focus like only on layer two for like a week or two or and then its like trying to because maybe im trying to do too many things sometimes


a panpsychists an all pervasive consciousness


stillness or spaciousness


i think it also sounds to me very likely we can dig into it a little bit more but it also sounds to me very likely like you are experiencing layer two


emptiness


love arising for your wife


spaciousness


yeah right not sameness in that sense right sameness in the sense of the the presence that that is experienced here right and so from a layer three standpoint theres some kind of presence and all pervasive presence theres generally that emotion or theres different layer in location three theres always that emotion


when you just upset at it it does a little bit like it didnt at first and that question sort of made it feel there was a connection or merge


many different potential trajectories within fundamental wellbeing


from layer three or layer three


experienced became increasingly positive


sense of there not being a separate seer only


mind


location 3 has love that tends more towards the latter


to location two


and if weve asked things and youve been like oh it is actually everywhere and it is actually quite centerless so its heading in that direction


emptiness seems to come further down the line and so if spaciousness is there a little bit more present in the experience and you can remember instances where you shifted into and would have said


location one tends to kind of get yeah gets orphaned left behind


this further deepens and increases their immersion in the present moment


aliveness


location two where your negative emotions drop away


but the shift into layer four is you know it can be an intense one and it really is very different than everything that comes before it and so you know lots of strange things can happen on the way to it in the direction of it you know sort of associated with it um and its possible that when you felt like you had made progress in that direction and then you had this other sort of experience come in that it was you know just one of those types of things in that direction


what im wondering about your description there is whether or not one couldnt describe that as still some spaciousness that youre rooted in in terms of maybe not as deep as other spaciousness that youre experiencing but it doesnt sound to me like youre you know very deeply embedded in thoughts and emotions


subtle nonduality comes more to the foreground in location to


fullness


spaciousness


sense of compassion


fundamental wellbeing


i do have a fullness sometimes of more bliss yeah and it can be very little things i can see the sun coming up and shining through through a window and the sun the light catch something and it just it makes me feel really happy inside yeah


in layer three there can also be that emotion that shows up thats like a combination of joy and love and compassion with any one of them forward at any given time and often theyre perceived as the same or qualities of the same something you know field or whatever and so you know when asked people generally wouldnt say well no those those emotions are different from the presence


but now if i feel into the spaciousness it doesnt have boundaries it doesnt have it doesnt really end no so the space seems endless


access to love and other positive emotions


kind of benevolent existence that pervades the spaciousness


realize theyve moved onto the continuum until they transition to a later location


merging


emptiness


spacious


flat


i think i remember reading your childhood thing and your pastor thing um let me said it felt like getting lost and ending up on material earth so thats you know that can be in the direction of it for sure but that can also just to some degree be a finder thing as well in some cases even as early as location one


like even when there are like some thoughts and things happening around me and its like my my awareness my attention is more on the silence


compassion love


experience spaciousness first sometimes emptiness first


nondual


so the existence of everything is more fundamental than any experience of it


your is getting a lot more freedom some of those types of things are bubbling up more than they would otherwise


awareness have spaciousness


range of emotions


three felt presence divine like an undercoating of divine right and three three was full on god is the construct right god is everything its like part of me its im in this im in the soup im in god soup


we find that they can often pull people out of fundamental wellbeing so thats not the best idea weve had a lot of people report that the first time we had that reported was we were running one of the first founders courses and it was during burning man burning man hit in the middle of it burning man as you can google it if not yeah its sort of a psychedelic ish festival in the nevada desert yeah and you know we had a bunch of people that had transitioned to fundamental wellbeing before burning man they went to burning man and ingested a bunch of drugs and then fell out of fundamental wellbeing and had a hell of a time trying to get back


location one im a little more worried about my life my health people around me those those thoughts come up more yeah like those are the thoughts my internal dialogue


wellbeing


single emotion and it feels like love and joy and compassion and maybe a couple of other culturally or religiously conditioned things


emptiness


emotion


pursuit of fundamental wellbeing


god


it feels like what you see everything you see around you is just there its just showing up um without a distinct or real sense of a separate look or looking at it even though of course you can still tell you have got like a location and space and youre not identical to the wall and so on um but there isnt that subjective sense of


environment under trigger its more like 11 and then kind of off on my own doing my thing


attention to when things like the spaciousness and the shift of identity come in around spaciousness and things like that right


youre getting a glimpse of layer three and location one


and thats why you know i understand that this is a very challenging place to be at and you know its its a big its its a big decision and it takes a lot of dedication and what i you know i have in general as a person i have a very deep drive to do some certain things like a strong really deeply rooted sense of purpose that that im not sure where its coming from i really have ive really dived into it and felt into it and done a lot of inner work and it doesnt seem to be coming from like neurosis or that kind of thing at least not anymore so for this stage of my life and for this point i feel like theres some things i need to do in the world build and whatever and and so for this stage it would be really nice i mean if you ask me three three years ago when i did a founders course and i would have said location three thats thats what i would like to be at


sense of an all pervading field of presence or fullness or silence pervading everything field of silent presence whatever um it can be a field of aliveness but its a nonphysical experience or non sensory kind of perception


dual


that wouldnt have been completely common because i think in location four you do have to be careful of your unconscious biases


emptiness or got quite emotional


theres a awareness thing through well its not even that its less than that its just whats seen and i dont even know what that is because when thought is taken out of it theres no no location theres certainly no me in here and there and theres no attributes theres no colour theres no shapes i mean they are there because we can describe them as that but when i come back into really question what is there oh theres just this and the same thing goes with the center of the body which fall into the spaciousness it becomes even seen ive just noticed how in itself is a is a vibration i never knew a character is seen i always thought seen was vision but is vision but theres a sense the way it comes through has nothing to do with anything except its kind of a vibration happening and thats what it feels like to me anyway and thats open up seeing because in that is the emptiness in a certain way theres nothing here enter the void and yet when its infused with awareness it opens up to oh well this is it this this this and theres a fullness there so i dont know if thats helpful in


its very rare you know its not one of those things that one runs across very often i mean i would be surprised if we run across 100 of them probably at this point out of 10000 people that are in fundamental wellbeing its


since 2017 was when i did finders course and transitioned


um and then because theres enough of the mind of the mind or layer one still active and still kind of youre still associated with it that its kind of like reacting to its own perception


and so if youre deeper in just the spaciousness and youre really sunk into it and whatnot


rather than just having a really deep experience of layer three in location two where theres still nondual experience for divine


i was on the cusp of getting into an accident and i had to i had to i had to concentrate my my energy really quickly and this happens when im when the body is is moving through space often when im driving or when im walking um or when im floating in water the dimensionality just well there are different experiences sometimes it stretches sometimes it just goes flat and i cant figure out where i am i cant triangulate a physical location and when that happens when im driving its really unnerving it happened it happened this weekend i went to visit my daughter at her boarding school and she was in the vehicle with me along with two of her friends and that flattening stretching distending started and so you know i remember i remember focusing all of my energy on


fullness


you still have of course the habits the habit pattern and your attention system that is pulling you back to layer one


but in layer three it does become infused with more like again this bubbling energy with this joy and more softness its also a kind of openness but its more communicative with the environment its like more sensitivity and more energy and it can turn into joy also and gratitude things like that


feeling increasingly comfortable with being spaciousness instead of being a body mind


infused with the divine essentially


and from there you can also see layer one theres a very good connection between layer three and one and location two


i think it s layer three because of the intensity of it the intensity of the feeling which is im not sure if it s an emotion of love but it s really this intense connection you can say or compassion with others as well


i was reading a book describing someones experience at the time that was a type of unity experience um i feel instantly when um when i finished that book that or midway that book that something happened that i experienced a stronger sense of oneness which was the focus of the book and i also experienced the absence of the boundary and that lasted for a few months until from march to september i think


facets such as love are felt as divine or universal or at a minimum impersonal


in the merger


sense of that impersonal emotion remaining


they feel value laden and quite arbitrary distinctions um mm theres just a sensation that well i know that this this body can die right i know that awful things can happen to people that are in my circle so havent lost that perspective but at a at a really eternal indestructible level i dont think any of those words actually matter theyre theyre not dont have a a frame of reference for them


nonduality


couple of times passing through location six where she passed out


some deal with lowlevel processes such as how the senses come together to create experiences and even fundamental body life support breathing heartbeat etc


often this sense was in the background


what you what youre describing by stepping back may be placing more attention on the layer two qualities that are also in your experience or it might be some shift in terms of where your sense of self is centered


and so in your case its probably not that youre jumping suddenly over into you know location three


location four and that kind of process


least spaciousness still from location one


so if layer four there would be no sense of a container its not happening in anything theres nothing within anything so theres no sense of like that all pervading presence thats not there theres literally just this


layer one is the the well you know the motivational speaker whos whos in fundamental well being


individuals who initially land in location 4 as their first experience of fundamental wellbeing generally report a great deal of automaticity and obviously didnt develop it as a habit


yeah its more like location one


fluidity


location 5


towards what im going to call heart and


nervousness and the spaciousness


sense of self


fullness


in location three


flatness


obviously there is a locus for the scene and for the hearing but you know youve been through that before with many people


emptiness


a person has been in location 4 for a while that same freedom from approval the elimination of conditioning around social norms and other key elements of this location often make it hard to establish longerterm and more meaningful relationships


you know there are other side benefits you know its but one of the benefits of that system is the authority associated with it you know having someone say okay now this and feeling a sense in the system very much like a christian does and turning something over to jesus or turning something over to christ or something like that right so its up to you to do that in this case and youve seen this a million times and people who have come to you you know hoping to transition to fundamental wellbeing theyve got to give permission to give up their old life


in layer three there can also be that emotion that shows up thats like a combination of joy and love and compassion with any one of them forward at any given time and often theyre perceived as the same or qualities of the same something you know field or whatever and so you know when asked people generally wouldnt say well no those those emotions are different from the presence


i am just used to like a more dead version of layer three in location two


individualized self had vanished


so you can use this both with hearing despite hearing loss doesnt really matter or with vision despite more visual acuity from the hearing loss doesnt really matter you can use this to determine basically where youre at in terms of location one


all pervasive consciousness


i think because it it felt like theres this like almost cold empty space and a kind of clearness to it by just like a lot of like it empty empty is what it feels like empty


probably an apparent stability


conditioning


it was like that in the sense that they just fold socialization in you know they dont totally isolate themselves


contrasting that to previous experiences of being triggered can be earlier in fundamental wellbeing could be before fundamental wellbeing or whatever


path of freedom


i refer to these as facets of a single metaemotion


youve been fundamental wellbeing so long


qualities of layer three


sense of agency


itll move as you as you sink in but just what you can do is is sink into that experience and really let your system recognize that theres an entirely different experience of what you are or of being than there normally is and while the personal self is you know temporarily either in the background or dissolved there is still beingness you know its not like youve ceased to exist and so you can just let your system kind of recognize that what you are is more foundational than the the personal sense of self that can just fall away because that is already what youre experiencing its just that the recognition of it isnt necessarily happening at the deepest level that it can


one of the things that often hangs people up with the switch from location two


so lets see okay so for example im looking at the computer screen so the nonduality like the location to nonduality


layer three early part of it is more prominent which its full it overrides the consciousness emptiness


arising


i think its definitely more no emotion than any specific type of emotion but sometimes emotions arise like uh anger anxiety and sometimes affection


location for


layer three in there or some fluidity


its more about spatial spaciousness than emptiness


flat


layer three type of more location three ish type of layer three type experience


and for most people that are in fundamental well being because most people arent in location four or later or the furthest highest possible reaches of location three where or location two


spaciousness


sense of beingness


emotion


sometimes its so funny to see how no concept makes any sense anymore it brings the laughter sometimes i dont think there is this love there and theres really simplicity directness and peace kind of thing


emptiness


youre deep in location two


centralis and connected


location 2 a perceptual change occurred


union with


depressed just prior to their transition its not uncommon for location 1 finders to just assume that something has occurred that lightened their load


fullness


finders who have children often say that their transition to location 4 didnt occur until they felt freed from the bulk of their parental obligations whether by the death of their child or simply the child getting married and beginning a family of his or her usually her own


they would be viewing layer one


no agency thing would continue on past location four on the path of freedom


nothing coming in my mind so im just being quiet unless im asked something


locations 5


not fundamental wellbeing


the mind it feels you know kind of much less noisy more quieter you know silent and still and some of those spacious


well im thinking of like two things now it was i did think i glimpsed location for for a while and there there there were no emotions like like at all uh and its very very quiet there and like i was yeah i felt like like like i was just or not even i but like whatever just being like thought it that way and then just being just doing things on its own and like theres no me anymore for a while so that one is pretty clear i think yeah there werent emotions in that at that point


just this like sense of energy thats aliveness and aliveness tingly aliveness


the access that where im at in fundamental wellbeing you should come


spacious


but basically you just kind of remember it you know or get to it however you can sometimes its just a relaxation in the system sometimes its an intense focus on maybe something like divinity that eventually just pulls one over into something you can sink into


spacious awareness


layer one id say is more in the head theres more thoughts a little more noise too is more in the flow


it sounds more like containing


but it very much could be location three and just exploring it think worry you know if something happens


the primary qualities of location three are sort of that one dominant emotion one you know one emotion with three or more facets but at least three facets of divine or impersonal love compassion joy with at any given time one of those facets you know more dominant in ones experience


its like a its a way it can be a way of pulling your attention almost back into that more foundational layer of of awareness


no it feels like its over there trying to poke in


the decision to move into these later locations is not to be made lightly


or an allpervasive consciousness


location 4 individuals have reported shifts to twodimensional instead of threedimensional visions


delight


and are often surprised by the words that come out of their mouths


active mind


im going to heal my emotions from childhood around my mother or something you know like theyre often used for today and so you know i think we do have to separate sort of a healing context for them potentially from a transitioning context so thats pretty fundamental wellbeing and fundamental wellbeing someone is new to fundamental wellbeing


youre coming up theoretically somewhere on the end of your first seven year cycle and fundamental wellbeing


emptiness


nondual


so just hold those descriptions loosely and when something you know shifts in your experience that feels like its in the direction of location three just ask yourself you know does it feel like its all one thing


nonduality


unfolding


um your system isnt necessarily recognizing that what youre experiencing is an entirely different quality of self um of what you are because its kind of like oh well selfs gone


but it is important to note you have little selves in there something is arising right back when youre at location one


but the main thing to to focus on would be to bias your system in the direction of location three


will there be a is there when theres a when theres a trigger and you go down


layer three in there or some fluidity


their levels of fear anxiety stress worry and


it all sounds like location four


is that the sort of location eight kind of direction that you re referring to there as the fringe


centerless beingness


term life stuff


the primary way of operating in the world comes from the perspective of this center which feels like a locus of self


fullness


this single metaemotion itself is a near constant experience and companion at location 3


emptiness


well right now the conversation is happening in the presence the presence is the bigger thing so now im trying to remember like i think its the opposite way around so theres more sort of like i am the whatever that personality is or i sort of believe it more


emotion


temporary experiences


love joy compassion


love


sense of spaciousness or emptiness or spacious emptiness


spaciousness


divine


i dont know that it was a rising in a way that you would have answered the questions that way during this interview per se but you clearly have a penchant for you know fluidity in general you know and you were able to detect oh wait a minute im getting a little too close in the direction of location four we dont want that you know it sort of you have enough sort of presence to be able to sense that kind of thing and generally thats the kind of thing that comes from someone who is used to having some fluidity you know its kind of a situational awareness if you will within fundamental well being in the same way that ordinary people have a situational awareness in life among different circumstances and stuff like that right and so im sure that theres fluidity here for sure but at least during this interview the way you described things the way you talked about things you know id pin it mostly at location two layer three


like you are entering layer two its completely missing and user interface but so there was like a real like shit kind of movement or shift from i am the thinker of my thoughts to seeing


emptiness or the flatness and the spaciousness


basically you know some people systems inclined towards it some people systems dont inclined towards it um but its sort of smack on you know location two layer three type of experience


we havent heard anything i havent heard anything that you know sort of makes me think otherwise you know i agree it is a it is a bit of a hitch right because if you do mention that because of the strength of the habit and the system of the eyes and the looking out and the fact that that probably actually is how visual perception is working of course yeah um and all of that it becomes very easy to sort of reconstitute it but its its reconstituted typically in a situation like this in such a light way


nondual


i noticed like i was a little concerned when you said it might be location one im like oh no i want location two so there is this kind of things that come up all the time and even though ive become like really aware of them its just it just still comes up and i still experience it and there is like there is some a little bit of a feedback loop if there is some frustration with that oh again so thats that feels like layer one at layer two


lot of very positive experience it s there s a very deeply a lot of love and deep understanding as well for others there s compassion


freedom


achieve fluidity


youve talked about how the layer four is the most primitive part of the brain and and just the other day when i was i think having kind of a glimpse of it i felt more like a crocodile you know like like im just here like ready to you know eat whatever comes across my path and and thats about it you know im not im not like pondering this question im having right now about the human the purpose of my existence as a crocodile


layer three is more like it feels like its this you know field of presence thats still and pervades everything infuses everything um rather than necessarily being the things you can get that type of experience but it certainly doesnt feel like its around things or its containing them it feels you know very clearly like its sort of yeah pervading everything


its there and location to layer three and then the personal side drops off and location three and then emotion itself drops off and location four and thats whats providing that richness you know of that experience and so its although there can still be you know a sense of presence found in the experience and stuff like that its like an alien type of presence compared to you know what someone experienced up to that and its going to you know youre typically speaking youre going to lose access to it in a matter of weeks and root more into just layer four and location four


but if not like the usual like in my daily life its more like layer one


spaciousness or emptiness


of location two but theres still some sense of separateness there and then the third one that you experienced is classic you know nondual type of perception


i still get triggered


fluidity


that makes sense still this feels really comforting so i wasnt really feeling it when i was feeling nervous and im not feeling nervous anymore but i think some nervousness kind of blocks me from feeling this really deep stillness


youve seen me present it where someone lands in location one layer one


layer three or even location three


nonduality


still have emotions


the totality that was that was that was the experience


the reason for this lies in the brain regions involved and the impact that even rudimentary language use can have on the deepening process versus silence


whereas in location to my internal chatter is very quiet and just i hardly notice it


we find that they can often pull people out of fundamental wellbeing so thats not the best idea weve had a lot of people report that the first time we had that reported was we were running one of the first founders courses and it was during burning man burning man hit in the middle of it burning man as you can google it if not yeah its sort of a psychedelic ish festival in the nevada desert yeah and you know we had a bunch of people that had transitioned to fundamental wellbeing before burning man they went to burning man and ingested a bunch of drugs and then fell out of fundamental wellbeing and had a hell of a time trying to get back


to me that would have been an obscure sounding address very recently but based on your work i would say that for the first time in my life hey ive got an address up here it was always general delivery up until this point


that you mentioned what sounds a lot more like a layer three type thing so is it a stabilizing and layer three thing and viewing other layers through that or is it a fluidity of experience


so its its subtle but theres definitely a distinct difference between those two experiences um of layer three


divine


conditioning


brought a degree of psychological reintegration


do feel like there still is fullness


spacious


transcendent freedom


no emotion


and when you have that shimmer is that happening in a state where youve got more access to layer three type qualities yeah like the warmth you described


nonduality


but it a get deeper version of layer three its definitely been i guess enhanced or like shown what is possible and really just me seeing how much me being in location two later three is just kind of i mean the word id say is zombified like almost its easy for me to just sort of escape in that way and feel okay about it and then suddenly going into three three same thoughts same thoughts that would come up in vacation two that i would just escape from suddenly oh wow i have this extra feeling of love i dont have to leave i can just be here and oh they dont you know it doesnt get worse it actually just releases then i think what brought me down a bit the last few days has just been working and you know the casino environment is not even though ive been used to it its not exactly the best for deepening yeah so i think im literally like 29 like im just below the three and you know now i got the next week off so i think ill um go back into it i got this interesting thing called um a hug sleep so its basically an adult swaddle like um i dont know whatever they use it compresses you so you just sleep in it and it just feels like somebodys hugging you so that seems to be working on the attachment theory stuff


you know you never quite know how these things are going to play out when the jumps occur for the first you know times um but yeah theres theres heading in the direction of layer four and through it to location four


what im thinking im thinking the aliveness of of the sensation that accompanies thinking into layer two


what about a sense of being in union with something either the divine or you know like an all conscious presence of sorts but not being one with it not being it right yeah but being you know sort of increasingly merging in with it


you know thats cool keep in mind charmed life is a locking in of location to layer three


you say the sense of presence that is calm vibrant and alive can be like a loud silence theres a sense of electricity in the air for some reason its much easier to notice in a natural setting outdoors outdoors with your eyes open it seems to hang in the air with my eyes closed its very hard to describe theres a scintillating energy that is in my body but not defined by the edges of my body no boundary has a sense of aliveness it feels like an energy field its like a constant hum like the hum you hear an electrical station its a metaphor of course it doesnt literally hum when i focus on it i start to notice a feeling tone it has a joy and a positivity a contentment warmth glow


it feels like i am this empty space or openness i like openness just this openness kind of thing yeah


it feels like my bodys included in it like its much larger than my body


fullness


background sense that things were


so in the fullness just feels really full


something like just stillness


deep


one thing to keep in mind about the descriptions of location two is that theyre not designed for people when theyre just first shifting into it


from layer one


about later locations five six


location three on a holiday for a week with your kids


that that seems to draw me into the present moment to stillness a sense of presence


it has taught us that social situations train us how to feel just as they train us how to think and act in so many other ways


i do notice that when i do some deep work or i really go into that layer three experience that feeling will come you


these individuals are rarely aware of the degree to which this impacts their social life and connection to others they often feel that they have much stronger social bonds than is actually the case on the other hand they feel complete and have a deep sense of freedom and wellbeing so they typically dont care


location three its like they sink more into some aspect of the qualities that hold them in location three at at layer three you know and they dont quite get to you know the the progression from layer four and then location four kind of standpoint


thats sort of everywhere another thing that made me ask that is because your your description of layer three in your document relates to a very specific and quite deep experience of layer three where it does feel like a liquid or like this thick quality thats that is a absolutely layer three


theres a theres a lot of spaciousness and a feeling of a space of awareness in which thoughts emotions sensations perceptions arise and its very very much a default for me you know i dont identify necessarily purely with just the contracted sort of psychological inner being and a physical body i do feel more expanded and feel like all of the the whole the entire bubble of perception is sort of me or im made up of that same whatever that is


wonder


i wouldnt say there s been too much of a change in wellbeing


fullness in the spaciousness


i think it just be like a little easier to just to stay in location two and just go to the layer two


and i liked your suggestion of start doing mini as youre walking around or driving or parked at the lights or something just do mini in and out too because with a strong layer one which i had for a long time i can see how i really need to be on the ball with this


awesome um so probably it would still be good if you feel up to to spend the next two weeks working on layer two just for its deconditioning benefits and increased flexibility in your system


like the qualities of layer two is just you know spaciousness or emptiness a sense of everything arising within it as it if your universe view feels like kind of this um all containing sense of this one thing thats just arising that is um i suppose if its layer two in essence it would feel somehow like it is the space within which the universe arises or that the universe is somehow composed of a spacious emptiness or that type of quality


it can be very very powerful so thats also something that even just spending three weeks in location 3rd may do a lot for your system because that sense of divine love to experience that is very


their emotional life becomes more and more positive and they can reach a point where negative emotions are rare


when you remember and theres presence which of which of these two things feels more like the case


divine


beneath that field of existence which is something like the universe or just reality that you may be having glimpses of or experiences of layer four


fundamental wellbeing


layer one you can get a feel for is this a useful thing or would i prefer to have you know access to something like layer one from somewhere else whether a more awareness


it could also relate to your identity really shifting into the spaciousness


like i might have been location two or something and then just like glimpse


spaciousness


the conditioning definitely seems to be something that is keeping you anchored to a much more shallow experience of layer one


assuming that even experienced glimpses of it which i can barely remember and maybe i have it feels intuitively that location for allows for a more clear perception


later locations could be dangerous


fullness


i think its predominantly a location to layer three im just thinking of like recent glimpses i think of being in union where like im just driving and and i just completely


i didnt like it but somewhere in that timeframe i just lost all concern for for speaking and i lost any need to prepare right come out of the management consulting world where we had dry runs of endless powerpoint presentations you know timed right


the attachment to them and specific outcomes in general is reduced


and layer one


location 4 finders either remain alone or learn how to respond appropriately so that their partner feels loved


i think if you can get that sense of self a bit looser from layer one


sense of judgment


location 1 participants also


path of humanity


so id say for this weekend you know you can watch the layer two stuff play around with it if you want but probably or have more of an affinity to the layer three stuff


yeah it was when my dad died yeah yeah and you know i was like crying but i was like well this is just love so this is okay i wouldnt say this is i want it to stop yeah


emotions


nonduality


emptiness


freedom


thoughts an absence of certain types of affect


the reason i would call it nonduality is because theres a slight memory of what it was like to be dual and its almost like a faint imprint and its not i guess because its not there and theres greater connection almost like my eyes are slightly glazed over or like in like no subject object or out or less


layer two once where you felt you are the space


the fullness


union


deepening towards location 3 will result in eventually reaching a point where negative emotions are only rarely experienced


when youre even when youre just using like if youre using for instance theres a method where like somebody just comes and holds you in a very loving way and eventually you find yourself sobbing in their arms you have no idea why youre sobbing and you know whatever else and its its just sort of this preverbal thing and theres really not that many people in the world that can even get somebody to you know have that experience


as long as you retain the ability to zoom in and


sense of emptiness


little blandness


the nature of self and other is much subtler in location 3


calm


i could i could fortunately i could stay clued into the to what they said and then id say something you know oh tell me more about that or you know that was all i could do i couldnt work out what i need to do with this client


the thing about all the things that youre mentioning is that they really you know for someone else could be something that might you know trigger them going to a lower location or something like that but theyre not necessarily things that would hold someone in a location you know like you can be in location one layer two as your dominant experience and still have you know triggers that pull you down to layer one or something but nonetheless be anchored you know at a higher layer than that or even over in location two


lot of love


well i guess its like at the same time i almost have a maybe the memories just coming in but like at the same time its like almost paradoxical its like its like within the smaller reality it is nondual and then at the same time i have the perception that that whole feeling is still dual because theres still a deeper sense of i guess nonduality there so its like appearing at the same time almost


attention to when things like the spaciousness and the shift of identity come in around spaciousness and things like that right


just not say a word oftentimes or whatever right and they would just eventually stop talking and to sort of turn around confused and walk away or something like that


so one of the few memories that i have held onto was the accident that i included in the material that i sent to you and annemiek


im not sure if you meant every single layer of of layer four for example probably more just like what makes sense and you say for that i need to get to location for layer four


spaciousness


compassion


emptiness


a few even seem to have maps that extend far beyond location 4 but these are typically kept hidden


result in those sorts of characteristics that we have listed underneath location two and the charts and stuff


alien


disassembly and reintegration