Consumer complaint received 2021-01-29
Product: Mortgage — Conventional home mortgage
Issue: Trouble during payment process — 
Company: PNC Bank N.A. (NY)

To Whom it May Concern, I am asking you to review my mortgage account with PNC Bank. In XX/XX/ I was laid off due to Covid-19 so I applied for a deferment of my mortgage. The first deferment was for XX/XX/XXXX, when we got our statement, we were told the outstanding principal remained the same and the past due balance was to keep track of the deferred payments that were to be put at the back of the loan. On XX/XX/XXXX we got a statement that said the principal remained at {$350000.00} with a past due payment of {$5000.00} and a current payment of {$2500.00}. The statement said " you must pay {$7600.00} to bring your loan current. We called the bank to make sure we were not ruining our credit as we have never been late in our lives. What was explained to us was the payments would go to the back of the loan and just extend the loan by the number of payments. We were told the past due number was for the banks records they were not set up for this process. We asked for a payoff so we could understand how this was being structured. At this point being unemployed we were not planning on paying off the loan. First, she told us the payoff was {$7600.00}, I said that is impossible I owe {$350000.00} according to the statement. So, we asked for her to send us a written payoff. We waited about 4 weeks for the payoff letter which she never sent. Only to find out by XXXX on XX/XX/XXXX she did do a payoff, but then she canceled it by doing a forbearance not even a deference. Not knowing the difference at this time, we learned she messed up the account. XXXX said she would fix the deference so that the principal plus interest would go to the back of the loan and just extend the loan, she said she was going to have a manager call us, but no one ever called. On XX/XX/XXXX I called XXXX to ask for another payoff she gave us a number of {$360000.00} ( I did not write the exact amount ) but she couldn't explain the difference the outstanding principal of {$350000.00} and the {$360000.00} number made no sense, but it could not be explained by XXXX. It appears the payments were being added to the principal rather than put at the back as we were told. She said do not worry about it you do not have to make any payments until we figure this out. Fast forward to XX/XX/XXXX we get a letter for a 3-month forbearance and then on XXXX XXXX we get a letter from XXXX XXXX. that we were approved for a deference all we wanted was a payoff. We were told we could not get a payoff because the deferral needed to be completed. XXXX again told us that the outstanding principle would not change, and the full payment would extend the loan, we realized that we would owe the {$350000.00} plus any money the bank paid for insurance and taxes. At this time being so frustrated we asked for a payoff and were seriously considering paying off the loan. On XX/XX/XXXX we spoke to XXXX she said the payoff was {$340000.00} which did not make since she said she would check and call back, but never called. This is the first time we heard this number but as time goes on, we keep hearing all different number in the XXXX knowing we owed {$350000.00}. On XX/XX/XXXX I called and spoke to XXXX she said she needed to email someone as to why the payoff was {$340000.00} and would call us back but never did. We received a payoff letter good until XX/XX/XXXX and had just made a payment. We felt we had a month to now get this resolved. We called on XX/XX/XXXX and spoke to XXXX she said the payoff was wrong on the letter XXXX {$360000.00} ), but they should have it fixed by XXXX. I said that is unacceptable I need to pay off this loan and get away from this bank. She gave me the number for customer service, so I called right away and spoke to XXXX. XXXX said the payoff was {$340000.00} meanwhile the outstanding principle on our XXXX statement was now changed to {$360000.00} and on a statement ONE day later {$360000.00}. She put me on hold for 40 minutes and then said the Payoff would be {$340000.00} plusXXXX, plus {$1500.00} ( Insurance ) and {$850.00} ( flood insurance ) for a total of {$360000.00}. I said this makes no sense, what is the {$15000.00} she did not know and had me call lost mitigation where I spoke to XXXX, she gave me a payoff of {$360000.00} again being blown away by all these different numbers I didnt write the exact number. When I asked why XXXX earlier gave me {$340000.00}, She said oh she should not have given you that number. Being very frustrated and not knowing who I should believe from a bank that gave a different number every time I called. She said she would have a supervisor call within 2 days, a full week later on XX/XX/XXXX I get a call from XXXX the supervisor I explain the situation he said he would review the file and get back to me on Monday or Tuesday XX/XX/XXXX or XX/XX/XXXX. Well, I never heard from XXXX so on XX/XX/XXXX I called XXXX and all XXXX had for me was another payoff of {$360000.00} with no explanation of a break down. I said my statement has said {$350000.00} for 8 months then went to {$360000.00} and a day later was {$360000.00} and XXXX says {$340000.00} and XXXX was at {$360000.00} so what is right? Now he wants to investigate this after a half of month goes by. He'll call back either Tuesday or Wednesday XX/XX/XXXX or XX/XX/XXXX. Needless to say, he did not call, and another payment was going to be due. He finally called on XX/XX/XXXX but we were in the car so I asked if I could call him when I was in front of my paperwork the next day. He said I should call him first thing in the morning and if he were on the phone he would call right back. I called at XXXX XXXX and every half hour after that until he called at XXXX XXXX. He gave another payoff number and at this point I said just send me a payoff and I'll pay off the loan and contact the federal reserve. He then said that stops the conversation this must be sent to tier XXXX our highest level. You will hear from them on Monday or Tuesday XX/XX/XXXX or XX/XX/XXXX. I waited until XX/XX/XXXX at XXXX XXXX with no call so I called XXXX as he was my last contact, so I left a message. That night at XXXX XXXX we get a call from XXXX in management he is going to run a full audit and email it to me then we can talk. I said you record every phone call and suggested he listen to them to see why we are so disillusioned by the bank. I suggested that all this confusion and bad information was not incompetence but lack of training. XXXX gave me his number, but he never called or sent Email, so I called him on XXXX XXXX XXXX  and left a message. I called again at XXXX and left another message he finally emailed at XXXX XXXX XXXX but forgot the attachment. I thought I was doing something wrong so I called and left a message at XXXX and XXXX. I called the next morning at XXXX and he answered, he said he was on the phone and would call right back NEVER DID. On XX/XX/XXXX I left another message to please call me back Monday with the password. I did the same on Monday at XXXX XXXX XXXX to please call and he finally called. He did not send the attachment the first time so between that and not telling me I had to make a password. Meanwhile time just kepts moving forward and another payment is coming due. I got the attachment after he resent the email on XX/XX/XXXX. We made an appointment to speak on Tuesday at XXXX XXXX which we did. We spoke for XXXX hour and XXXX minutes at which time he " Warm Transferred '' me to the payoff department where I got a Payoff of {$360000.00} good untilXX/XX/XXXXXXXX could not explain the numbers so we asked to be transferred back to XXXX, but he was gone. We thought he was going to stay on the line so we could go through the numbers, but he did not. I called him back at XXXX XXXX  and had to leave a message. If all he was going to do is go over his spread sheet and flip me to the payoff department then he wasted our time. He said if I contact the CFPB all they are going to do is look at his spread sheet and see that he is right. For that reason, all the numbers below are from his spread sheet. He also said that in 35 years he has never seen a first mortgage being a deference so maybe he does not know how to deal with it and neither does his payoff department. Besides after talking for an hour it was evident, he had no authority to change numbers if they were wrong. It seemed whatever number the payoff department gave was the final word. I suspect all these payoffs we got included part of or all the deferred payments that are supposed to be on the back of the loan. The deferment was a great idea to give people who are unemployed the comfort of not stressing over monthly payments with little or no income. If you must pay it back when it was due, you have dug a financial hole for everyone who used this program. I find it sad there is no one at the bank you can talk to and get answers that lead to a decision. We never intended to pay the mortgage off but now feel we have no other choice. We will use our retirement money to get us out of this mess and then maybe refinance with another bank. We will use XXXX spread sheet that we have attached, and we will try to go through the numbers. 

The outstanding principal on our XXXX bill was {$350000.00} and this number remained on every statement until XXXX when they tried to figure out where to put the deference. According to XXXX spread sheet they subtracted 9 months of principal ( 8 which they deferred and one that we paid ) from the {$350000.00} which is {$7500.00} reducing the principal to {$340000.00} the exact number we got from 3 people on XX/XX/XXXX. From this number according to the spread sheet on XX/XX/XXXX there was a {$810.00} negative balance in escrow after paying our taxes on XX/XX/XXXX. In addition to that a payment was made by the bank on XX/XX/XXXX of {$850.00} for flood insurance, a payment by the bank for {$1500.00} for hazard insurance and {$2800.00} for taxes. Adding this to the principal brought it up to {$350000.00}. By this being added to the principal no more escrow is due as a matter of fact we are owed {$1300.00} for our XXXX and XXXX payments bringing the principal down to {$350000.00}. By putting these fees into the principal, the negative escrow that the bank has been tracking from XXXX through XXXX is no longer relevant and does not go into this equation. The principal now needs to be increased by the 8 of the 9-payment ( remember we made the XXXX payment ) which is {$6700.00} bringing the principal to {$350000.00}. To bring the principal current until XXXX we need to subtract the XXXX principal of {$850.00} making the principal {$350000.00}. The last thing that needs to be subtracted is the interest paid in XXXX and XXXX while we chased 2 managers who did not even have the courtesy to return a phone call causing us to have to make two payments and now possibly a third which is not included in these numbers. This will bring the principal to {$350000.00} and it will change if we have to make a XXXX payment due on the XXXX. 

Or the easier way : {$350000.00} The outstanding Principle as of XX/XX/XXXX plus {$810.00} The negative escrow after paying our taxes on XX/XX/XXXX according to XXXX  spread sheet plus {$850.00} Flood insurance paid by bank on XX/XX/XXXX plus {$1500.00} Hazard insurance paid by the bank plus {$2800.00} Taxes paid by bank on XX/XX/XXXX. 
Minus {$2500.00} XXXX payment ( This is the cleanest way or the principal would have to be reduced we would owe no escrow and I dont feel I should pay the interest while the bank gave us the run around for 10 month and continues ) Minus {$2500.00} XXXX payment This would be deferring 10 payments 2 of which we paid in good faith while the bank scratched it head. 

Total {$350000.00} Same exact number by deferring 10 payments.