davidaulloa/AmericanStories huggingface dataset:
Evening star., 1963-09-26
ACC ROUNDUP
Duke Has Passing, Too

It may be too early to estab-
liSh trends in the Atlantic
Coast Conference, but Duke,
which seems to be off and run
ming in a bid for It's fourth
straight championship, is sur
prising some folks by passing
too.
The Blue Devils shoot for
their 10th straight ACC victory
Saturday at Virginia, ard re-
member that quarterback prob
lem Duke was suppose d to
have? Forget 1t.
Junior Dave Uible. the wise
cracking southpaw who hadn't
played much before, completed
10 Of II passes against South
Carolina last week. And, as
Evening star., 1963-09-26

as host to Maryland. A look at
the rest of the conference ac-
tivity:
North Carolina at Michigan
State-The Spartans are pri.
marily a senior club, but a BIZ
lighter than usual. However, q
sophomore. Steve Juday, starts
at quarterback. Sherman Lew.
is, 5 feet 9 and 152 pounds, i.
the broken-field threat and the
tn ir d. d-down-and-two man. H,
also plays defense. For the Tai
Heels to win, they'll have to gel
Lewis in a defense match.
up with 6-foot-3 Bob Lacey
The Spartans are favored BY
IA. Last year, with essentially
the same personnel on bott
sides, Michigan State won
1876.
Clemson at Georgia Tech
Frank Howard was a bit en-
barrassed at Oklahom a last
week. The Sooners used their
famed quick snap for a IT.
point splurge in 81a minutes,
scored on a le-eligible pass
play, and let Clemson win the
battle of statistics: New Tiger
flaw uncovered: Punting (26.7
yards per kick. Bobby Dodd
keeps Georgia Tech well-honed
and he's had an extra week to
prepare for this one. Tech is
favored by II.
Wake Forest at Virginia a
Tech-The Deacons appear
headed for 11th straight loss,
unless Fullback Briarf Piccolo,
who scored all 10 points
against East Carolina, gets
considerable help. Virgins
Tech, with letterm e n three
deep. had Kentucky tied, 14-14
at the half and has a dandy
OBJ, Bob Schweickert, who fig.
ure to be too much. Virgins
Tech favored by 7.
N. C. state at Mississippi
SOuthern-The Southerner.
have IA lettermen back from
team which defeated d N. C
State. 800, last year. However
the Wolfpack trailed only TT
going into fourth quarter. Ask
any Terp. This is a better N. C
State team. -GUBACK.
Evening star., 1963-09-26

the season as Bowl erica
was ia king all three games
from Bill Gerke's five.
Some of the best rolling In
the league was turned In by
Jack Betz, Miller Liquor, 4l2;
Stan Ward, Coca-C ola, 424;
Larry Burdette, Fred Davis
Distributors, 400; Wink Alex
ander and Don Pearson, Rob-
ertson's Crab House, AIT and
AIS. Bill Lewis, Congressional
Olds, rolled his fourth straight
400 or better series with a 400.
Waldorf Diner took two from
Congressional as Miller Buick
and B. Frank Joy won two
games from Hill and Sanders
and Boat Super Market respec-
lively, Bill Lewis remains the
high average performer with
1881.
There's no stopping Betty
Shoemaker in the Ladies Su-
burban Major League. Last
night she had a 159 m e d a |
game and a 42l set to remain
the high average performer
with 1857.
The John Hughes Co. star
helped her team to a three
game sweep of the Jones Opt
clans as it took over undisputed
first place In the league.
Gladys Liebrecht, Jimmy
Comber'S, set a new high game
mark for the year with a I'll as
her team won two games from
the Lewis Co.
In other matches, Coronet
Hair Stylist won two from
Wayne Trailer Rentals, B. L.
Nash won two from Jarrett
Beauty Bazaar, Ledo Restaurant
took two from William P. Gel
berg Co. and Fulford Radio
grabbed a pair from the Jake
Snider Sign Co.
When Jimmy and Jacuui
'IDietsch h left the Washington
area last winter to take over
the activities at the Rebel Bowl
Duckpin Lanes in Freder-
ickSburg, Va, they went there
with the express purpose of
stirring UP some action.
They are now prepared to
give area duckpinners that ac-
tion with their first tourna-
ment this weekend, the first
annual Rebel Bowl Open.
Shifts are IL noon, 4 pm. and
8 pm. on Saturday and Sun
day.
Jimmy and Jacqui say they
have designed this tournament
with all the bowlers in mind.
On the basis of 100 entries,
they have extended the prize list
deep into the ranks with the
10th finisher getting In the
money. In the event of $50 en-
tries the prize list goes down to
the 28th performer.
Evening star., 1963-09-26
Cage Leagues Slotted
In Euirfux County

The Fairfax County Depart
ment of Recreation is organiz-
ing basketball leagues for men
women. girls and boys. Team
entry applications, for tn c
leagues, financed by franchise
fees, are available at the Re-
creation Department.
Information on basketball
and other indoor sports pro-
grams such as badminton and
volleyball can be obtained by
calling the Recreation Depart
ment at Crescent $4,000, ex-
tension 38S.
Evening star., 1963-09-26
PEPco Foces Boyes
For SoftbuII Title

John Beardmore pitched q
no-hitter last night as PEPCC
defeated Naval Printing and
Publications. 40, in, a semi
final game Of the Metropolitan
Area Glass B softball tourna-
nnent at Guy Mason Recreation
Center. ..... -.
Beardmore struck out four
and allowed two: walks, PEPCO
plays Bayes Restaurant for the
title OF $3.50 o'clock tomorrow
night ut Guy Mason.
Evening star., 1963-09-26
Sugar Ray Enroute
To Bouts in Europe
~ the Associated Press

NEW YORK, Sept. 26 (AP)
Sugar Ray Robinson, A.
year-old former middleweight
champion. left on the Queer
Elizabeth yesterday for q series
of fights in Europe.
He will meet Armand Van
ucci, q 28-year-old French mid
dleweight, in Paris October II
and Nino Benvenuti, 25-year-
old Italian middleweight, ir
Rome In November. Benvenut
won the Olympic welterweight
crown In 1850.
Evening star., 1963-09-26
GuuriIiu Placed
On Waiver List

BOSTON, Sept. 26 (AP).-
The Boston Celtics placed Gene
Guarilia on the National Bas-
ketball Associations waiver list
yesterday.
Guarilia, who starred at
George Washington University,
has been with the Celtics four
years.
The Celtics now are down to
10 players. They must be down
to IL by october 16, opening
night.
Evening star., 1963-09-26
Loyne Diagnoses
From Press Box

PITTSBURGH. Sept. 26
tAP).-The Pittsburgh Steelers
said yesterday former Quarter
back Bobby Layne will join the
club each week end to diagnose
opponents plays at the teams
phone In the press box.
Layne, who retired at the end
of last season after a brilliant
career with Detroit and Pitts
burgh, will serve in no other
capacity, the National Football
League club said.
Evening star., 1963-09-26
Ace at Pinecrest

Bill Starke scored his first
hole-in-one yesterday, using a
six iron on the 155-yard first
hole at the Pinecrest Golf Gen.
ter in Fairfax County.
Evening star., 1963-09-26
BOATS and MARINE

CANOES. Is it., fiberglas, factory
closeout special, S116.5O CAP'N
STAINS BOAT CENTER, S326 Ga. ave.
JU. 5-7773.
ELECTRIC TROLLING MOTORS, clear
ance price, S79.95. CAP'N STAINS
BOAT CENTER. 1929 Ga. ave. JU.
5-7773.
JOHNSON MOTORS, new '63. At dis
count prices. CAP'N STAINS BOAT
CENTER. S326 Ga, ave. JU. SITS.
WH1RLWIND boat, Is #, with 5O-hp.
johnson, all extras, for $500 or best
offer. Call CHESTER KELLER, JU, j.
200. May be seen at Oak Grove Pier,
Md. 7437 BIB
90-FT. MATHIS YACHT
Twin GIN 67l 20 XIV gen.. 3 state
rms. 4 baths. Recently refurb. win
trade for real estate or smaller boat.
For appt., call IA. Silly or ia, =.
$500. MR.. GOLD
lift. BROADWATER rumabout 1861,
40-h.p. johnson, custom cover, new
shipmate, tilt trailer, remote con-
trolls, windshield. JE. 3-1o43, 337-
400 after d.
HOGAN'S GOAT-Group outings. pic.
mics. fishing (up to 81 people)
Annapolis. WA. 7-41g2, WI. f-36H9
Evening star., 1963-09-26
Boat Supplies

Rope ia cts. Jackets So, tarpaulins
pumps, cushions, hooks, dry chemical
iife ext. 5000, nylon 4 "a cts. Miscel
2513 NJ st. NV. FE. a-634b
Evening star., 1963-09-26
DODGERS, !; NETS, o

a-Struck out for Moon in 5th; b-Rar
for T. Davis in Sth; c-Flied out fol
Fairly In Sth; d-Grounded out for Kaneh
in 9TH; e-Struck out for Moran in 7thi
|f-Singled for Craig in 9th; g-Grounded
out for Smith in 9Th; h-Singled fol
Schreiher In 9th
Evening star., 1963-09-26

NATHAN HALE IL better than his last race at
Timonium and sets the yete here IN closely matched
field. SUSQUEMANNA will battle 10 the wife. CLOUD
COVER . winntr earlier at Shenandoah Downs
Evening star., 1963-09-26
FIRST RACE-Purss, SLIGO: claiming 1880; T.
yaaF.Olda and M; 61S faFlonne,

FLY UNTO jaSt missed In bis lasA In Q. same
sffcrt ana locks best here; pOEOTmY Buck viii
sitter finishing fouFth In his hst 90
Evening star., 1963-09-26
FRIDAY RACES TRACK FAST POST TINE. 1889 PM.

FOURTH RAcE-Rune, SLIGO, claiming N1,25O)i
3-year-slds and up. Maryland fOalsi about
Evening star., 1963-09-26
claiming (SI,2SO): s.

GRAND FIDDLER finished third for $500 and
sss' esssss. r: me lsss. SS: HsTEss df6RY rate;
chance II started.
Evening star., 1963-09-26

EQUlFROsT finished third for $1,000 and meets
lesser here. TUSCANY JR. his last start for
81 ESQ and h the .sns to beat. BLAL0CHS rates
excellent chance, n starts. '..
Evening star., 1963-09-26

N-Faced men IN Ist, y-Faced 2 men
In Hh, z-Faced ! man In 7th.
U-Forman, Landes, Harvey, German.
T-2:3s. A-A.360.
Evening star., 1963-09-26

E-Hoak. Philadelphia as, San
Francisco T-l3. DP-Pagan, Hitler and
Cepeda; Stanek, Pagan and Cepeda. LOB
Philadelphia 5, San Francisco 6.
2B-C -Cailison, Mays 2, Hitler. 3B- Mays.
HR= =Cepeda, Sievers, Demeter, Callison.
S-Haller,
Evening star., 1963-09-26

HBP-By Worthington t0liver). WP-
SPAIN. u-Secory, Walsh, Burkhart. Pry
or. T-2;2s. A-5,sSs,
Evening star., 1963-09-26
CARDS, S; CUBS, z

Totals 3Tsii5 Totals 17747
a-Ran for Ricketts, In eth: b-SinEied
for Maxvill In sth; c-Flied out for Bur.
dette In Hhi d-Grounded out for Elston
in eth
Evening star., 1963-09-26

E-Burton, Boccabella, Maxvill, Boyer
PO.A st. Louis u.l4, Chicago 21.l5. Dl
-Hubbs. Stewart and Boccabella. LOB
81. Louis 7, Chicago 2.
9B-Flood. HR- -Hubbs, Clemens. SB-
williams. S-Jackson.
Evening star., 1963-09-26
PILLS, 6; GIANTS, 4

Io'A. ua aOlaIs "
H0mered for Herrnstein in 7th; Gran
for Covington In 7th d. Struck out for
Stanek In 9TH; e-Flied out for Daven-
port In sth; f-Grounded out for Pagan
In 9th; g-Struck out for buffalo in 9th.
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1963-07-07

MR.. SCHORR, a Social Sc
curity Administration staff
member, Is now on leave Of
absence to study public
policies affecting families in
Great Britain.
His views are contained in
a 168-page research study
entitled "Slums and Social
Insecurity" (for sale by
the superintendent of Docu-
ments, Washington IS, D. c.,
so cents which we would
like to predict will be one of
the, most widely discussed
Government publications for
quite q while to come.
"1f we are to serve this
goal Of wiping out poverty,
we shall not only be adapting
our response to other goals
we shall be subordinating
other goals" Mr.. Schorr says.
Housing policies will have
to be integrated towards the
end of eliminating social in
security for everyone.
q. Public housing and
public assistance programs,
though specifically directed
to low-income families, are
very far from reaching them
all.
"Those who are assisted
are In many cases assisted
inadequately. Remedies are
available. They win only be
effective, however, If improv-
ing the condition Of the poor
is the first and not an Incl
dental objective Of policy.
"Thus we come in the end
to the central conclusion,
that housing policies will
have to be integrated toward
the end Of eliminating social
insecurity or-put positively
achieving social security"
THERE IS A VERY fine
ring about what Mr.. Schorr
says, and the objective is
certainly laudable. But there
remains the question Of
whether this is what Con-
gress had in mind when 1t
enacted urban renewal legis-
lation.
Whether or not this is
what Congress had in mind,
this is apparently what Con-
gress has got, as Mr.. Schorr
EXPLAINS Il.
an clearance programs, by
chance to be sure, our cities
are embarked on the identi-
fication Of poor families on
a grand scale.
Government is going to
deal with these families in
some fashion, neither partner
to the transaction can escape
1t. II we set out TO deal with
poor families as construc-
tive as possible, prevention
of poverty'-in the public
health sense-may not be an
inappropriate description Of
the activity.
1T we accept the chal-
lenge, we shall have uncom-
mon cities and in them UNI
common men," he says.
And-perhaps 1t should be
added--a far different sys-
tenn Of Government than we
. have today.
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1963-07-07

necessary changes in the law
and coming regulations are
made to permit higher build
ings here I'VE would still have
our wide avenues with their
wide vistas and more green
spaces"
Height limitations in the city
now range UP to 100 feet for
one section of Pennsylvania
avenue. but generally the limit
is 80 to ITO feet in the down.
town area, the general said.
Would Support Subway
He said that another ad-
vantage Of greater height al
lowances is that 1t would create
"a greater density Of popula-
ton" in the downtown area and
thereby help support any SUBJ
way system that is built here.
Gen. Clarke said that one
reason given for the height re-
strictions here is the concern
that tall buildings might over
shadow the Capitol and other
Federal structures.
He said, however, he feels
that taller office buildings can
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1963-07-07
Clarke Sees Taller BUILDINGS
AS Key to District Growth

be constructed here without
dominating the Federal Gov
eminent buildings.
There Is still a tremendous
demand for office space here, F"
he said.
Gen. Clarke said that other
reasons once given for restrict
ing building heights here, such
as the rather inefficient per-
Torrance of earlier model ele-
vators and the lack Of water
pressure to fight fires in tall
structures, are no longer rele-
want.
Gen. Clarke's term as en-
gineer commissioner viii END
at IL am. tomorrow when Col
Charles M. Duke will be sworn
In as his successor in a cere-
mony at the District Building
The Board Of Commission
ers will then hold a reorganiza-
ton meeting. Walter N. To-
briner is expected to be re-
elected as board president and
Commissioner John B. Dun
can probably viii succeed Gen.
Clarke as vice president.
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1963-07-07
Boiling ALB to Get
New Commander

Col. Frank E. Marek, COM
mander Of Carswell Air Force
Base, Tex, has been named
commander Of Boiling Air
Force Base here.
Col. Marek, a native Of
Wilkes-Barre, Pa, will replace
Col. Wilson r. Wood, who has
bee Unassigned to Maxwell Air
Force Base, Ala.
Col. Julius j. Adelman will
serve as temporary commander
Of Boiling until Col. Marek
arrives July 20.
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1963-07-07
D. c. Man Dies
Crushed as His
Truck Upsets

A Washington man was
killed yesterday afternoon when
the panel truck he was driving
went out Of control on Mac
Arthur boulevard, overturned
and crushed him.
Earl B. Clemens, A, Of 1924
Girard street NV, q driver
salesman for a cigar company,
was pronounced dead at
Georgetown Hospital at 3:I5
pm. a few minutes after the
accident.
sergt. w. s. Britt Of the
Accident Investigation Unit
said the truck, going south
east around a curve on Mac
Arthur boulevard Just north Of
Cathedral avenue, swerved into
the left curb, then across into
the right curb. back to the
median divider strip and over
turned. Mr.. Clemens was
thrown partially out the win
dow.
Charlie Thomas, AZ. Of 1929
F street NE, a passenger in
the truck, told police Mr..
Clemens swerved TO avoid hit
ting a child on a bicycle. Mr..
Thomas was not hurt in the
accident.
The fatality was the 43d in
the District this year, compared
with 81 traffic deaths by this
time a year ago.
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1963-07-07
FIRST TIME IN 6 YEARS
Taxicab Fare Zone System Up for Complete Review

so many Of their trips start
and finish, is a prime target
for the carving block.
The taxi industry is not ex-
pected to speak with one voice,
however. One group of COM
panies, fleets and associations,
which claims to represent about
one-third Of the approximately
1900 licensed cabs in the Dis
trict is preparing a plan which
involves a complete overhaul Of
the zone system. An increase
from the present % zones to
about 40 zones, all about 11a
miles square, is being consid-
cred. 1t has been learned.
Some trips now a one-zone
ride might go up IS to so cents,
one informed source said.
Attorney Charles J. Pilzer,
who will represent the group
which includes such large out
fits as Yellow Cab and Dia-
mond, declined TO confirm this.
Details Not Worked Out
The details have not been
worked out, he said. The group
hopes to maintain the present
zone fares $50 cents for the
first, with rs cent increases for
each additional zone), but re-
shape the zones TO come UP
with a fair price for each trip"
Some Of the longer rides in
Zone l would probably become
two-zone rides under a 40-zone
system. One preliminary map
Of the system shows the Capt.
toll as a neutral zone. This
would perpetuate, in part, the
advantage now enjoyed by
Congressman and others start
ing their trips there. because
II Is included in Zone /.
In approaching the Capitol
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1963-07-07

from zones on any side, 1t would
not cost the rider extra to ride
into the Capitol grounds. It is
not certain, however, whether
the neutral zone will be part
Of the final proposal offered.
Other Proposals
Some Of the other proposals
expected to be advanced in
clude:
Division Of Zone only.
Scrapping Of all fixed boun-
Diary zones In favor Of a uni
form circular zone system with
the zones measured by airline
mile units.
Scrapping Of the party rate.
This allows a reduced fare for
three or more passengers riding
from the same origin to the
same destination.
It will be up to the cab in
dustry, Of course, to prove that
drivers are not making enough
under the current zone system
and fares. In judging their
claims, the PUG. once again
will be traversing the muddy
waters Of the Districts unique
taxi economics.
Brag or Cry?
Washington does not know
whether TO brag or cry because
II has moro cabs in relation to
its population than any other
major city In the country. In
dustry figures for 1862 show
the District; with its $500 Ii
censed cabs, was topped only
by New York City with about
1880. But New York, with 10
times Washington's population.
has only about one-third more
cabs.
Figures can be misleading.
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1963-07-07
Planning Advisers
Rebuffed in County,

each application by the profess
sional staff, the rezoning re-
quests are subjected to the rec
concentrations Of the individual
planning boards.
Then they are forwarded to
the Prince Georges County
Commissioners or the Mont
gomery County Council for fl
nal action. The elected officials
are not bound by planning
board recommendations.
Hundreds Of Applications
Each year, the two county
bodies act on hundreds of re-
coming applications.
Last years planning commits
sion annual report showed that
the Montgomery County Coun-
Gil reversed its planning board
in 8 per cent of the cases
from May /, 1861. to April 80,
1862.
During the same period in
Prince Georges, the county
commissioners acted against
planners in 81 per cent of the
cases.
A survey of rezoning records
last week shows that the lame
duck Democratic Montgomery
Council acted on 1876 rezonings
from May ! last year until De-
cember. 1t reversed the plan
ners in 81 of them-or IS per
cent.
The four man Republican
majority took office in De-
cember.
Since then, the new council
has acted on IS rezonings and
reversed its planning board in
81 Of them-or 81 per cent.
In doing so, they approved
(where planners denied recon-
ings for more than ITO acres
Of garden-type apartments and
more than 80 acres of indus
trial land, among others.
However, the council also de-
MED where planners ap-
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1963-07-07
HE'S QUITTING
Gen. Clarke
Gets City's
Lowest Pay

The District Governments
lowest paid full-time employe
is quitting tomorrow.
He had been working dill
gently at his major city job
for three years and he was re-
garded by his colleagues as a
dedicated, conscientious and
able official.
But no matter how hard he
labored the District Govern
ment refused to give him q
raise.
AS a matter Of fact the Dis
trict not only declined to boost
the approximately $4,5OO-a-
year salary he started al
nearly three years ago but has
periodically reduced it.
This employee is Engineer
Commissioner Frederick j.
Clarke, whose annual salary
from the District is now 1913.
He leaves the District Building
tomorrow to report for his new
Army assignment as chief of
military construction.
BY law the District supple
ments the Army salary of the
engineer commissioner to bring
it up to the $40, OOO-a-year pay
the two civilian commissioners
receive. When Gen. Clarke
first reported for duty at the
District Building he was q
colonel.
After he was promoted to
the higher-paying job Of briga-
der general, the Districts
share Of his total salary was
proportionately reduced.
The engineer commissioner
at least gets some salary from
the District. The three assist
ant engineer commissioners
work full-time for the city but
receive only their Army pay.
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1963-07-07

Zation Of the taxi industry here,
1t Is clear that taxis are a pop
ular and competitive form of
transportation. The Districts
zone system, unlike the meter
system used in most major CT
ties, allows the rider to deter
mine his exact fare before the
trip begins II he has a zone
map available.
Back In 1857, a poll Of driv-
ers by the House District Com
mittee found sentiment among
drivers heavy" in favor Of the
zone system.
Meter Use Barred
While 1t is known that some
segments Of the industry still
favor meters. the PUG. can
not even consider them. Since
1888 Congress has put a rider
on each District appropriations
bill which prohibits the PUG.
from establishing anything 9TH
er than a system Of uniform
zones and fares for taxicabs.
One Independent driver. r.
Wing Schlaifer. has maintained
that the congressional require
ment for uniform zones Is not
met by the fixed boundary sys-
tenn. His proposal is for zones
to be measured in airline miles
from the starting point Of each
trip.
The PUG. has interpreted
uniform" to mean that the
same zone system should apply
for all cabs, however. A ma
jority Of the present P. c.
commissioners is known TO be
DESTROYS of making the zones
more uniform geographically.
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1963-07-07

Raising the building height
limitations for Washington's
central core area would do
more to rehabilitate the down.
town business district than any,
thing I can think Of" Engineer
Commissioner Frederick j.
Clarke said yesterday.
In a final interview as engi-
neer commissioner. Gen. Clarke
said that if present coming
height limitations are lifted
selectively it would provide "a
great incentive" for new con-
struction in the central city.
THE trend today seems to
be to trade height for open
space-to provide more green
areas in return for permission
to build higher" said Gen.
Clarke. II personally think this
is a good trend"
If developers are allowed to
construct buildings higher, they
can make a greater profit on a
piece Of land and they will be
encouraged to help rejuvenate
the downtown area. Gen. Clarke
said.
Skyscrapers Not Needed
II am not advocating New
York-type skyscrapers," Gen.
Clarke explained. II think they
would be inappropriate for
Washington and there is no
economic need for towering
skyscrapers here.
What I would favor is rails
ing the present 90-foot height
limitations in some downtown
areas to 100 feet. ! think this
would take care Of the city's
needs for the next 40 years."
Gen. Clarke said he was ex-
Guiding Pennsylvania avenue
in his remarks because a spe-
cial commission is now pre-
pairing a plan for this street.
The general said the appro-
pirate time to provide for the
height increases would be in
connection with an urban re-
newal plan for downtown.
Legislation is now pending in
Congress to authorize such a
plan.
Gen. Clarke said that If the