davidaulloa/AmericanStories huggingface dataset:
Evening star., 1961-11-28

ment between our countries. but
take those steps which make
peace possible. 1 don't think
that paper, and words on paper,
are as significant as looking at
those areas which provide ten
sion between our two systems
and seeing if we can dispel that
tension.
One of those areas now is the
problem of Germany and Ber-
lin. If we could make progress
there. then in my opinion it
would provide a most important
step in improving our relations
in other areas.
l stated that if we had been
able to get an agreement on
the nuclear tests cessation,
that would lead to other agree
ments on disarmament. If we
can make an agreement sue
ceSSfully which provides peace
in Central Europe, if we can
conclude our efforts in Laos and
insure a government and a
country which are neutral and
independent, as Chairman
Khrushchev and I agreed at
Vienna. then we would be able
to move into other areas of
tension. I believe, as I have said,
If we can now make an agree
ment on a satisfactory basis on
Berlin and Germany, which is
the most critical area-becauSe
it represents a matter of great
interest to both our countries,
and great concern to our peoples
then we could take other
steps. II we can solve the prob
lem Of Germany and Berlin,
I believe we can find our rela-
tions substantially improved.
Mr.. Adzhubei: Thank you.
Mr.. President, this is a most
worthy thought. Especially be-
cause. as I understand you. you
intend to talk seriously on these
problems with our government.
Let me say that the German
problem is of great Importance
to our country, for manv rea-
sons. Not only for strictly po-
litical reasons. and not only
because Of prestige considera-
tions.
As you know we have allies
Poland, Czechoslovakia. and
a number of other countries.
However, to date we haven't
any sober voices from the West
affirming the integrity of the
borders, existing in Europe and
it would be very important to
hear that.
But there is also another as
pect to the German problem.
In our country, in the Soviet
Union there is not a single
family that did not lose some
kin in the war. You know we
are trying to put out the
smouldering Goals of the last
war in Central Europe. But we
do not wish only to play the
role of a political fireman, as
it were. though it is very i'm
portant. In the heart of every
Soviet citizen, in the soul of
every Soviet citizen, there are,
as you know, Goals still burn
ing from the last war and they
are burning his soul and does
not let him sleep quietly.
Evening star., 1961-11-28
President Cites
Test-Bun Effort
The President: we'll. I \

The President: Well, I would
say that the relations today are
not as satisfactory as l had
hoped they would be when I
first took office. In fact, one
Of the first things that did
on becoming President was to
commit the United States to
an earnest effort to achieve a.
satisfactory agreement with
the Soviet Union on the ceSsa-
ton Of nuclear tests.
as a result of that effort, at
the end of March, we sent
our representatives, along with
Great Britain's, to Geneva for
the first time with a complete
treaty which we tabled for dis
cussion. 1 had hoped that this
would be one area where we
could make real progress. 1t
would lessen the contamina-
ton of the air, it would be a
first step toward disarmament,
and I felt that if we could
achieve an agreement in this
area, we could then move on
to the other areas of disarma-
n1ent which required action.
We were not successful. And,
as you know, we were in fact
still at the table in Geneva in
August when, still negotiating.
the Soviet Union resumed its
tests, tests which must have
been in preparation for many
months, at the very time that
the conversations were going
on: So that has been dis
appointment.
In addition, Berlin and Ger
many have become, / think,
areas of heightened crisis since
the Vienna meeting, and I think
extremely dangerous to the
peace, which am sure-I know
both of our people want.
I think that the Soviet Union
and the United States should
live together in peace. We are
large countries, energetic peo-
pie, we are steadily providing
in both our countries an in
crease in the standard of liv-
ing. If we can keep the peace
for 20 years, the life of the
people of the Soviet Union and
the life of the people of the
United States will be far richer
and will be far happier as the
standard of living steadily rises.
Where we feel the difficulty
comes is the effort by the So
Wet Union to communize. in a
sense, the entire world. If the
Soviet Union were merely seek
ing to protect its own national
interests, to protect its own
national security, and would
permit other countries to live
as they wish-to live in peace
then I believe that the prob
lens which now cause so much
tension would fade away.
Evening star., 1961-11-28
Test Ban Treaty
As First Step

That is why I thought it so
vitality important that we make
an agreement on cessation of
nuclear testing as the first
step, and then proceed step
by step through atomic weap-
ons. through missiles. through
the level Of ground forces, the
Navy, and all the rest. If we
can get agreement on that,
then we can move toward gen.
eral and complete disarma-
ment.
l think it would be helpful
if NATO and the Warsaw Pact
engaged in a commitment to
live in peace with each other.
I certainly believe we should
take every conceivable step to
prevent surprise attack. I be-
lieve that if the relations be-
tween our countries can be
normalized, there will be less
military buildup on both sides,
but we cannot now withdraw
our troops from Europe. way
back across the Atlantic Ocean,
when you merely withdraw
your troops to the Soviet Un-
ion which is only few hun
dred miles away. That is why
we need some understanding
of what is going to be the
situation in Berlin and in
Germany. And that is why I
hope negotiations will take
place between our governments
quickly and will come to a
successful conclusion.
The statement has been made
on many occasions that we OBJ
iect to the signing of a peace
treaty, that we regard that as
a belligerent act. That is not
the point. 1t is our view that
the statement which the four
powers made at Geneva in 1866
providing for the reunification
of Germany represents the
soundest policy. To divide a
country, to divide a city, to put
up a wall in a city, we believe,
only increases tensions rather
than diminishes them. And we
believe that, if the German
people were permitted to be re-
unified, adequate steps could be
taken to protect the security
of all involved.
Evening star., 1961-11-28
Adzhubei Agrees:
Let People Decide

Mr.. AdZhubei: I under
stand you, Mr.. President, and
I am very happy to hear these
words from you, because as you
know. the future of the world
depends in many respects on
the relations between the
United States and our country.
Let the people decide what way
of development they want to
choose. However. I would like
to draw your attention to the
following historical parallel.
When the BolshevikS, headed
by V. I. Lenin, came to power.
all the capitalist world was
shouting that they were plot
ters and that there was no
freedom in Russia, but in A
years our country became a
great power. But this is not
the issue. I would like to ask
you another question
The President: You are a
neWspaperman and a politician.
Mr.. AdZhubei: In our country
every citizen is a politician. be-
cause we like our country very
much. The young and the old
like the Socialist system of our
country and we are ready to
fight for it until its victorious
end. You are proud of your
country, Mr.. President, ard we
are also very much proud of
our own country. and we are
very proud of V. I. Lenin.
Mr.. President, sometimes it's
said that in order to improve
the relations between our coun-
tries, it is necessary to start
with the settlement of small
problems. Others believe that
too many small issues have ac-
cumulated and that perhaps it
would be better to start with a
big act.
We believe that such a big
act was . the visit by Nikita
Sergeyevich Khrushchev to the
United States in 1859. But un-
fortunately the results of that
trip were not completely salts
factory. Mr.. President, what
is your attitude toward the idea
of concluding pact of peace
between the United States and
the Soviet Union? That would
be a great step forward.
Evening star., 1961-11-28
u. S. Relations
With East Germans

Mr.. Adzhubei: You just an
swered the question I was going
to ask. But 1 cannot agree with
you.. am not a specialist in
the field of disarmament, but
as I understand it. the McCloy-
Zorin agreement was a very
important step forward, and
we hope that the efforts by
specialists who will be author
lied by our governments will
lead to better results.
And now a few words about
Germany. If I understood cor
rectly the translation. I have
heard a very unrealistic term.
l have in mind the term East
German authorities" 1t would
be more pleasant to hear gov
eminent of the German Demo-
cratic Republic" You don't like
the German Democratic Re-
public. We don't like the Fed
eral Republic of Germany, but
we have diplomatic relations
with the FRG, we have very
good trade relations with it.
Thus, we are realists. If the
Government of the United
States were not saying East
German authorities" but were
to say government of the
CDR" that would be very good
and realistic.
And now a second point. We
would like to sign "a peace
treaty together with cur World
War II allies, and we hope that
it will be so. 1t would be a great
happiness not only for our gov
ernment but also for our
people. Nobody intends to turn
West Berlin over to East Ger
many. That does not make
sense. There is the CDR and
there is the FRG with its cap
italist system. Let's sign a
peace treaty and let us guaran-
tee freedom for West Berlin
by every means-by troops of
the four powers, by United Ma
tions troops-and let's thus
guarantee its rights. But this
is a problem for future nego-
tiation. Now a few words about
access to West Berlin. Why
complicate such a simple prob
lem? Communication to West
Berlin runs over 100 miles
through the territory Of the
German Democratic Republic.
If one needs to visit West Ber-
lin, if its necessary to send
people, food or other goods
there. then it is very elemen-
tary to ask permission for that
Of the government of the CDR.
Sometimes I feel--and l am
saying this to you very frank
ly-that some evil people are
attempting to complicate sim
pie things and thus are de-
liberately creating tension.
Yesterday, when I was talk
ing with your closest advisers,
1 gave this example: If an man
has his nervous system ex-
tremely strained, he is irritated
by every noise. every sound
and everything is taken by him
very suSpiciously. Such a man
can create much trouble. We
hope that the negotiations
which will take place in the
near future will be objective,
realistic, and Will be conducted
in an atmosphere of complete
calm.
Evening star., 1961-11-28
Denies Soviet Effort
To Export Revolution

We want the people of the
Soviet Union to live in peace
we want the same for our own
people. 1t is this effort to push
outward the Communist system,
on to country after country.
that represents, I think. the
great threat to peace. If the
Soviet Union looked only to
its national interest and to pro-
viding a better life for it's
people under conditions Of
peace, I think there would be
nothing that would disturb the
relations between the Soviet
Onion and the United States.
Mr.. Adzhubei: That is very
Interesting. However. as a citi-
zen Of the Soviet Union, as a
Evening star., 1961-11-28

thorities, 1t seems to me that
that is going to increase ten
sion. If the Soviet Union at
tempts in that treaty to turn
over jurisdiction over West
Berlin to the East German au-
thorities, against the wishes of
the people Of West Berlin-if
the lines of communication and
access, from West Berlin to the
outside world and the West,
are completely under the con-
troll of East German authorities
to cut any time they so wish
then this treaty does not bring
peace. it only increases the
danger.
Now I am hopeful that, in
the conversations and negotia-
tions which we hope to have
with the Soviet Union, assur-
ances will be given which will
permit us to continue to exer-
else the rights which we now
Nave in West Berlin, as a result
Of the existing four-power
agreement. and will permit
free access in and out of the
city. We do not want to stay
in West Berlin if the people
there do not want us to stay.
But they want us to stay. When
they decide that they don't
want US, we will leave. But SO
long as they wish us to stay,
it seems to me that the rights
which are ours by agreement
should be maintained. I am
hopeful that the Soviet Union
will agree with this, and in par
ticular will agree to permit
supplies and people to move in
and out of West Berlin freely
Then we can. in my opinion
reach a peaceful settlement ir
the center of Europe, and if we
can reach an agreement on this
question, then I believe oul
relations will greatly improve
Evening star., 1961-11-28

s Following is the tert of the
interUietu held last Saturday
in HydnniS Port, Mass, be-
+ ttUeen President Kennedy and
AIerei Adzhubei, editor OF
IzUeStid.
= Mr.. Adzhubei: Mr.. President.
] am happy to get this interview
from you, and I would like to
tell you quite frankly that your
election to the high post of
President of the United States
office was met with great hope
by public opinion in our coun-
try. In connection with this,
] would like to ask you the fol-
lowing question:
= The President: May 1 just
say that appreciate very much
your coming to the United
States. I also appreciate the
opportunity to talk. through
. you and through your news
paper. to the people Of the
Soviet Union. I think that COM
munication. an exchange Of
views. an honest report of what
our countries are like and what
they want and what the people
wish, is in the interests Of both
our countries and in the in
terests of peace. So We are de-
lighted to have this opportu-
nifty.
Mr.. Adzhubei: would like to
ask you the following question.
Mr.. President. during the elec-
ton campaign. on several oc-
casions you expressed good in
tentions with respect to the
necessity of improving Soviet
American relations. On the oc-
casion of your Inauguration as
President of a great country,
Nikita Khrushchev, Chairman
Of the Council of Ministers Of
the USSR, and Leonid BreZh-
nev. Chairman of the PreSidium
Of the Supreme Soviet of the
USSR. in their message to you,
Expressed the hope that by
their joint efforts our coun-
tries can succeed in radically
Improving our relations and the
international situation.
They also expressed conf
dence that we can, step by step,
liquidate the existing suspicion
and distrust, and thus bring
cooperation between our
peoples. On its part, the Soviet
government is always ready to
support any good endeavor in
that direction. and to do its
best for the establishment of a
stable peace in the world, in
order that all peoples may live
in friendship and without
hatred among them.
Mr.. President, what do you
think about the present state
Of Soviet American relations.
and what in your opinion must
be done by the American as
well as the Soviet governments
to improve the relations be-
tween our two countries?
Evening star., 1961-11-28
u. S. Objection
To Divided Germany

The reason why we have been
reluctant to recognize East
Germany as a sovereign power
is that we do not recognize the
division of Germany. In our
opinion the German people
wish to have one united coun-
try. If the Soviet Union had
lost the war, the Soviet people
themselves would object to a
line being drawn through Mos
COW and the entire country. If
we had been defeated in war.
we wouldn't like to have a line
drawn down the Mississippi
River. The Germans want to
be united. I think it should be
possible to provide for that un-
der conditions which will pro-
tect the interests of all con-
cerned. But the Soviet Union
believes that it is more in their
interest to keep Germany di-
vided.
Now the question is-given
that decision-can we provide
for the protection of our rights
in West Berlin. which were
agreed to in 1945 by the Soviet
Union. so that this is not a
continuing crisis? In attempt
ing to work out solution OF
the problems which came about
as a result of World War II, we
don't want to increase the
chances of World War III. All
we wish to do is maintain a
very limited-and they are a
very limited number of troops
of the three powers in West
Berlin and to have. for example,
an international administration
on the Autobahn so that goods
and people can move freely in
and out. Then we can have
peace in this area for years.
But if East Germany is going
to exercise the right Of author
ity over that access. we are
going to have continued ten
sion there-and I simply do not
see, given the strong interests
of both of us in having peace
in this part of Europe, why that
is a wise decision. I am hopeful
instead that the negotiations
which we are anxious to see
take place will bring about an
agreement on this area which
will recognize fairly the inter-
ests Of all.
Mr.. AdZhubei: Mr.. Presi-
dent, since I'm talking to you
in a very frank and friendly
manner, I would like to ask you
to imagine, at least for a
moment. the following impos-
Sible thing. Imagine that you
were an officer, a veteran Of
the Soviet Navy, who fought in
World War II. You won the
war, and then the very events
occurred which are now taking
place.
One of the parts of Germany
the Federal Republic of Ger
many-does not recognize the
border which have been estab-
liShed after the war. 1t is again
building up its armed forces,
The Chancellor of that country
goes to the United States to
talk to the President Of the
United States and they have
secret talks. The spirit Of re-
vanchiSm is very high in that
part of Germany. What would
your attitude be toward this,
if you we're a veteran of the
Soviet Navy?
Evening star., 1961-11-28

that 1 know that the Soviet
Union suffered more from
World War II than any coun-
try. 1t represented a terrible
blow, and the casualties af-
fected every family. including
many of the families of those
now in government.
1 will say that the United
States also suffered. though not
so heavily as the Soviet Union.
quite obviously. My brother
was killed in Europe. My Sis
ter's husband was killed in
Europe.
The point is that that war
is now over. We want to pre-
vent another war arising out OF
Germany. I think the impor-
tant thing between the United
States and the USSR is not to
create the kind of tension and
! pressure, which in the name of
settling World War II increases
the chances of a conflict be-
tween the Soviet Union and It's
allies on the one hand and the
United States and its allies on
the other. What we should at
tempt to do is work out a Solu-
tion through negotiation which
will make it possible to keep
the peace in Central Europe.
And that is the aim of this
/ government.
Now in regard to trade, one
of the first things I did on be-
coming President was to change
/ governmental policy which pro-
vided for the admission of crab
meat. This was not a matter
of great dollar value. but had
some symbolic importance. and
was a matter which Chairman
Khrushchev had spoken about
on several occasions.
/ My own judgment is that. if
we can solve the problems that
we are now talking about. par
ticularly in Berlin, and ease the
| general tension, trade will then
increase. What has diminished
trade in recent months mas been
the difficulty which we have
experienced in Germany and
Berlin. 1 would hope that trade
could be expanded, and in my
JUDGMENT it would expand i'm
mediately. if we can bring
about a peaceful and satisfac-
tory solution to the interests of
all in Germany and Berlin.
Mr.. AdZhubei: I shall COM
communicate your words to
our readers with a feeling of
satisfaction. We have always
thought and still think of the
Americans as the realists. 1t
is your energy. your realistic
approach, that has helped you
to create such a wealthy coun-
try.
But now I would like to ask
you frankly, Mr.. President. be-
cause this idea was expressed
by you in several instances.
whether you seriously think
that the social changes which
are happening in the world
today are the result of actions
in which Moscow has its hands?
would like to remind you OF
one thing. You know, in France
when the bourgeois revolution
won, the aristocratic Europe
accused France of every mortal
sin. When the october revo-
luton won, all the world of
the rich condemned that revo-
luton. But this revolution won!
You mentioned that a Marx
ist came to power in British
Guiana. Do you think that
events occurred there according
to our instructions? Of course,
we can't give you any assur-
anceS that there won't be social
changes in the world, although
you will call it the result of the
Evening star., 1961-11-28

Party. I cannot agree with you.
in that part of your answer
where you are saying that we
are trying to "communiZs" the
world. At the 22d Party Con-
gress, which, in our opinion.
was an historic event. we
adopted a program Of Com
munist development and we
said that we are against any
export of the revolution, but
we are also against any export
Of counter-revolution. If we
turn to facts, there are many
countries in the world in the
affairs of which, from our point
of view the United States is
interfering.
Yesterday, 1 saw TV pro-
gram which was being shown
to millions of Americans. where
your commentator asserted that
the whole world is under COM
plete threat of the Communists
to capture the world. We would
like to see an end put to this
situation.
Our Government and our
party believe that every people
chooses such a system of gov
ernment as they like. Austria
chose the capitalist way of de-
velopment, although American
and Soviet troops were there.
But Cuba has chosen another
way of development. And we
would be happy if you, Mr..
President, were to state that
the interference in the affairs
of Cuba was a mistake. We
hope that the Cuban people
will consolidate their own way
of life-as we'll as the Domini-
can Republic, Ecuador. Brazil
and many other countries.
The President: May I just
say, without getting into a de-
bate, that the United States
supports the idea that every
people shall have the right to
make a free choice as to the
kind of government they want.
In the case of Cuba, let me
you that the Castro
was originally sup
ported by the great majority
of the people. When Castro
was leading the revolution, the
statement was made that there
would be free elections, and
freedom for the people, and
progress for the people. But
Castro has not kept that COM
mitment. Until the present
government of Cuba will allow
free and honest elections. in
our opinion, it cannot claim
to represent the majority of
the people. That is our dispute
with Cuba.
Mr.. Jagan. on the other
hand, who was recently elected
Prime Minister in British
Guiana is a MarxiSt, but the
United States doesn't object
because that choice was made
by an honest election, which
he won.
If the people of any country
choose to follow a Communist
system in a free election, after
a fair opportunity for a num-
ber of views to be presented,
the United States would accept
that. What we find to be OBJ
jectionable, and a threat to
the peace. is when a system is
imposed by a small militant
group by subversion, infiltra-
ton, and all the rest.
If the Soviet Union and this
country could develop their
own resources, and if you per-
mitted the peoples of the world
to develop in the way they
wish to develop, then, if any
Nation should choose a Com
munist system, we would recog-
nize and accept that. And if
they chose another system,
then we would hope that you
would recognize and accept
that. too. II we could get that
on both sides, I believe the So
Wet Union and the United
States. which have so much to
gain from peace, could live in
peace.
Evening star., 1961-11-28
Says Actions Speak
Louder Than Words

The President: I think we
should have not only an agree