Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1954-04-08

plants who pleaded the fifth
This is another in o series of article.
on the controversial junior Senoto
from Wisconsin currently appearing
in The StoF.
amendment before Senator Nc
Carthy's investigating commit
tee, "they have all been either
suspended or fired" the Senator
says.
The idea of box score on the
success of the committee has, he
says. "a lot of merit"
Questions and Answers.
81 think it could be useful" he
told two questioners in an ex-
elusive recorded interview. Roy
M. Cohn, the committees chief
counsel, also sat in on the ses-
sion, Here are the questions,
and Senator McCarthy's an
Swers:
Q. Some IF the chairmen OF
investigating committees have
published in the Congressional
Record a box score of the re-
suits Of what they have done
Do you plan anything similar
to that in the near future?
A. Senator Mccarthy: It hadnt
occurred to me. It might be a
good idea.
Q. Would you consider keep
ing a running box score week by
week or month by month, or
something of that sort?
A. If any of the members of
the committee wanted it, yes.
Q. I mean for your own per-
sonal use. You are always al
luding to how many Communists
were in such position or in
such a place. If you keep a box
score, wouldn't you have it at
your fingertips?
A. I think it is good idea.
In fact, it is a good idea for the
speeches from now on.
Q. How would you break this
down. such a box score, in cate
gorieS? You have talked about
Communists. You don't usually
use the words fellow traveller. :"
You have said the Communist
associates" You have also said
Fifth Amendment Commu-
nists." Would you break that
down into gradations of these
people?
A. I suppose you would have to
break it down because there is
a difference between a man who
has been named an espionage
agent, a man who has been
named as a spy in a high plan
ming position, or the Communist
who is, we will say, driving a
truck in a defense plant. There
is certainly no comparison be-
tween the two insofar as the
damage they can do is concerned.
Box Score idea Praised.
AS I say, it is the first time
that an idea Of keeping a box
score has been preached. I think
it has a lot Of merit. I think it
could be useful. I think, Roy,
you should give that some
thought.
@. What is your present figure
for the number of Communists,
Fifth Amendment Communists,
and of Communist associates,
take those three categories, on
which you claim you have turned
up or your committee turned up?
A. First. I suppose we will have
to go back to the old figure of
81 that I gave to the Senate. A
stable number of the 81 have
been removed from week to week.
O.. Those are the 81 cases you
cited in that Senate speech?
A.. Yes. That included the 81
that I mentioned over at Wheel
ing, w. Va. I think the most
recent of those cases which is
getting attention is the case of
John Patton Davies.
(Mr. Davies is counselor to the
United States Embassy at Lima,
Peru. He was cleared seven
times by State Department
loyalty-security boards, and once
by the top Government loyalty
review board under the Truman
administration. Secretary of
State Dulles has announced that
Mr.. Davies will go before a spe-
cial security board to clear up
conflicting points raised in a
new investigation0
What will be done about his
case, I don't know. I frankly
couldn't at this time give you a
complete list of the 81 who have
been removed from Government.
In the book that I wrote short
time ago-not a short time ago
two years ago we had list. which
is not up to date now. I have no
way of following the 81 except
by personal investigation. IN
der the present rules. under the
old Truman order. we can not
get that information from the
Government. In other words.
whether they were discharged
for security reasons. loyalty
reasons or what.
80 Pleaded Protection
AS to defense plants. Roy. how
many took the Fifth Amendment
who were working in defense
plants? Do you remember the
figures?
Mr.. Cohn. In public session it
was something over 80 who were
fired as a result of the investiga-
ton.
Senator Mccarthy. What is
the figure of 81 that somebody
gave me the other day?
Mr.. Cohn. That is a composite
figure.
Senator Mccarthy. That in
cludes more than Fifth Amend
ment cases.
Mr.. Cohn. It includes Fifth
Amendment cases hut not ali Of