davidaulloa/AmericanStories huggingface dataset:
Evening star., 1954-04-24

Secretary Stevens: But 1t.
Corr can and will.
Mr.. jenkins: Will he be
available as q witness?
Secretary Stevens: He will.
Mr.. jenkins: All right.
What next was done or said
at Fort Monmouth on October
20?
Secretary Stevens: Yes. sir.
This particular lab, and then
we went into another secret
lab, and we had approximately
the same divide up of people.
but that was a relatively short
visit and when we came out
and we finally got the party
together. it was still very
apparent to me that Mr.. Cohn
was very much provoked by
the whole proceeding and
when we went back to the
headquarters building the
same room we had been in
before, and we had a sort of
a box luncheon in that build
ing.
Mr.. Jenkins: I want you to
! tell what transpired at that
luncheon. ...
Secretary Stevens: Well, Mr..
Cohn was so obviously pro-
voked by the whole proceeding
that took it upon myself, Mr..
Jenkins, to try to calm him
down a little bit, you might
say.
Mr.. jenkins: What did you
say or do with the idea of
calming him down. as you
put it?
Secretary Stevens: Well. I
said it was too bad that there
wasn't time available at the
door of the laboratory to make
all of the necessary inquiries
about who was cleared for
what, and therefore I had made
that onSthe-spot decision and
I certainly did not intend to
offend anybody by it, but did
the best ! could and I did not
intend it as any offense to Mr..
Cohn or any one else.
Mr.. jenkins: Was that in
the nature of an apology, Mr..
Secretary?
Secretary Stevens: I would
say that it was.
Mr.. jenkins: Very well. You
may proceed.
Secretary Stevens: Well, I
would say it was in the nature
of an apology. I don't know,
sir, am trying to rethink that
one over as to whether apology
is the right word. I knew that
had not done anything that
was wrong on the one hand;
and I felt in my heart I had
done what was right. I tried
to protect the interests of the
United States.
Mr.. jenkins: Did you make
any effort on that day to stop
this investigation OF the 1st
Army area and Fort Mon
mouth?
Evening star., 1954-04-24

order without argument.
Senator Mccarthy say
it is completely indecent sand
improper to take a recording
of a conversation without
notifying the person on the
other end that it is being
taken. Let me finish, if you
please. I insist upon making
this point of order. Mr.. Chair
man. May I do it without
interruption?
Senator Mundt-What Is
your point of order?
Senator Mccarthy - T h Q
point of order is this: That
while I think it is completely
improper. as ! started to say,
indecent and illegal under the
laws. to record a conversation
without notifying the person
on the other end. ! personally
would want the conversation
in this case made a part of the
record, if it is a verbatim
transcript.
Mr.. Jenkins shall ask him
that question.
Senator Mundt-The chair
is going to uphold your point
of order, that. before we vote
on it, we should find out
whether there is such a tran
script. That question will be
asked.
Senator McCarthy-May I
finish-and we are losing a lot
of time and I think | am en-
titled to this: it is an impor-
tant point. If, however. this is
the recollection of some in
dividual of what occurred
months ago, if it merely con-
sists of notes that he made,
and not a verbatim transcript.
then I think it should not be
made a part of the record. If
it is a verbatim transcript, I
will want it a part of the rec
ord, no matter how illegal the
act in it's inception was.
Mr.. Jenkins-I am prepared
to explore that subject now.
Senator Mundt-The chair
will uphold the point of order.
and the counsel will interro-
gate Mr.. Stevens as to whether
or not he has a transcript to
produce.
Mr.. Welch-Could I say a
word, Mr.. Chairman? Mr.. Jen-
kins fully understands the
somewhat difficult legal ques-
ton here presented, and with
extreme courtesy he did not
interview Mr.. Lucas, who took
the notes, and he did not ask
to see~hiS notebook, and he is
merely informed that there is
a transcription now in this
room for which the committee
may call If it wishes.
I have not anything to say
except the transcription is
here, and as I view it. it can
neither be produced nor testi-
fed about unless and until
this committee votes that you
want it.
Evening star., 1954-04-24
Tells How Aide
Monitors All Calls

The procedure is this: When
a telephone call comes IN, Mr..
Lucas stays on the line. The
reason he stays on the line
is in order to assist the Secre-
tary in doing his job. Let, me
give you an illustration. Sup
pose I receive q telephone call
from somebody in Chicago.
who invites me to come to
Chicago to address the annual
convention of some organiza-
ton. And suppose, by a quick
glance at my calendar, I find
that I can accept this engage
ment, and decide that I ought
to, in the interest of the Army.
I then say, II will accept this
invitation"
The following things have
then been set in motion: Mr..
Lucas, being on the line, first
when and where this appear
ance is to be: second. trans
portation to and from Chi
cago; third, hotel reservation
in Chicago; fourth, advice to
the 5th Army headquarters in
Chicago because when / go
into one of the Army areas I
always want to notify the area
commander. and fifth, it will
be necessary to get some facts
together in order to prepare
this address.
Now, when ! finish that tele-
phone conversation I put down
that receiver. and as far as I
am concerned. that is the end
of it. and I cannot with the
busy duties of a Secretary of
the Army without further
thought until the time comes
when, for actually leaving on
the trip or for the prepara-
ton of the remarks that am
going to make.
In the meanwhile, MIR. Lucas
will have dispatched little
memoranda to appropriate
members of the staff to begin
to implement the five points
which / have just outlined to
you. Having done that, he files
his notes away, and that is
the end of it. But he is on the
telephone in the manner
have just described.
Mr.. Jenkins-Was this tele-
phone conversation between
you and Senator Mccarthy as
of November Z monitored? I
am not asking now for the
report. I say was it monitored.
Secretary Stevens-Mr. Luz
cas- was on the line.
Mr.. Jenkins-I will ask you
to state. from your recollec-
ton. now, and not any moni-
tored record, the tenor Of that
Evening star., 1954-04-24
Questions Legality
Of Monitored Talk

Mr.. Welch--Well, as you
know, Mr.. jenkins, do not
wish to keep the monitored
telephone conversation out OF
this hearing, and ! only want
the proper legal set-up made
so that it can go in as I view
the law, which I have discussed
with you, and I think we are
at that point.
AS you know, MIR. jenkins.
a special subpoena was served
on Mr.. Stevens requiring him
to bring among other things
this monitored conversation.
In response to the subpoena,
which I wish placed in the rec
ord at this point. he has
brought this monitored con-
versation to this room.
In a meeting of another
committee, at which Senator
Symington was present, it was
stated that there were such
monitored conversations SO
that their existence is not
actually a secret. It follows
that there are in this room, or
is in this room, a transcription
of this, of the notes that Mr..
Lucas made, and they have
been produced under a SUBJ
poena which I wish to be made
a part of the record. And if
this committee votes that Mr..
Stevens must produce and dis
close. he is prepared to do so.
But I ask that he have the
protection both of the SUBJ
poena, and of a committee
vote. ordering him to produce.
Senator Mundt Does the
chair understand that you
raise the point of order that
before the notes are produced,
and introduced, you would like
a vote by the committee?
Mr.. Welch-We are dealing
with the Federal Communica-
tions Act which puts certain
restrictions on monitored tele-
phone calls, and I think that
no Army man may properly
produce these unless a COM
mittee of the Senate orders
him to do so.
Senator Mundt Does the
chair understand that you have
raised the point of order that
before producing the notes, you
would like to have a vote by the
committee?
Mr.. Welch-That is precisely
correct.
Mr.. Jenkins-I now ask the
committee to take a vote or
whether or not this monitored
report, a transcription of it, to-
gether with the original short
hand notes, shall be produced tc
the committee for its consider
alton.
Senator Nc cCarthy-Mr. Chair
man, I think that the counsel
should first develop whether OF
not the Secretary has a ver-
batim transcript of the tele-
phone conversation. think
otherwise it is impossible fol
the committee to intelligently
decide whether or not the mon
itored conversations would be
part of the record. May say
I think it is one of the most in
decent and dishonest things
have heard of-a point of order
Mr.. Jenkins-Mr. Chairman
Senator McCarthy-A point OF
order.
Mr.. Jenkins-I ask the chair
man to instruct the Senator
that those statements are i'm
proper at this time. ...
Senator McCarthy-A point OF
order.
Senator Mundt-A point OF
Evening star., 1954-04-24

things. cover this entire story
on direct-examination, and If
I fail in my duty to do so. I
again remind Senator Nc
Carthy that he has the oppor-
tunity to crosS-examine at
length, and ! do not think
that the inquisition, or the
statement, at this time
Senator Mundt - Counsel
will proceed. I am sure he
will develop the full facts. If
not, Senator Mccarthy will
have complete opportunity to
ask the questions.
Senator Mccarthy - Mr..
Chairman. may / say the
reason I raise this point at
this time is. it will probably be
tomorrow or the next day be-
fore / have a chance to ex-
anime the witness, and I think
fs,r It. would be completely un-
1alf
Senator Mundt-The coun-
sci has assured the Senator he
expects to do that this morn
ing.
Mr.. Jenkins-And will in all
probability be fully covered
this afternoon.
Senator McCarthy-O. K.
Mr.. Welch-Mr. Chairman,
could ] suggest that I think
an orderly procedure would
be to clear the legal hurdles
and have the monitored tele-
phone conversation placed in
evidence.
Mr.. Jenkins-May I ask If
you have now stated from
your recollection, regardless
of any monitored proceeding.
the full conversation had with
you by Senator Mccarthy on
November z?
Secretary Stevens-No, sir.
Mr.. Jenkins-If not, proceed
to do SO.
Secretary Stevens-And may
] say, Mr.. Chairman, that the
one thing I don't want to do
is to create any impression
that is unfair to anybody.
Senator Mundt-I am sure
If you will elucidate those rea-
sons We can do that.
Secretary Stevens want
to give all of the facts but
when you are searching your
memory and trying to testify,
if you overlook some point it
is I guess a human frailty
and will not do SO intention
ally, ! will put the facts out
here on the table, bad, good,
and Indifferent as far as
know them.
Mr. Jenkins-Will you go
ahead.
Secretary Stevens-I have
not finished my statement
when I was interrupted.
Mr.. Jenkins-You have been
asked to do so now.
Secretary Stevens - I was
going to say that SEN
ator Mccarthy did say that
he thought this would be mis-
interpreted, the reassignment
of David Schine to this COM
mittee. He thought it would
be misinterpreted and would
be bad from that angle. If
cast any reflection in my
recollection as I am trying to
recall on David Schine in what
I said previously, I did not in
tend it in that manner. I
intended it merely in my
efforts to get the facts before
the committee. Now, in that
conversation Senator Nc
Carthy says ChaC one OF the
few things that he had trouble
with Mr.. Cohn about was
David Schine. He said that
Roy thinks that Dave ought
to be a general and operate
from a penthouse on the
Waldorf Astoria" or words to
that effect. Senator Mccarthy
then said that he thought a
few week ends off for David
Schine might be arranged or
words to that effect. Perhaps
for the purpose of taking care
of Dawes girl friends. Now,
have searched my memory,
Mr.. jenkins, and that Is about
the conversation as I recall 1t.
Mr.. Jenkins-That embraces.
as you recall it, the conversa-
ton between you and Senator
Mccarthy on that day?
Evening star., 1954-04-24
Mr.. Jenkins-From whom?

Mr.. Jenkins-From whom?
Secretary Stevens - From
Senator Mccarthy.
Mr.. Jenkins-Do you recall
the time of day that call came
in?
Secretary Stevens-Not pre-
cisely: no. sir.
Mr.. Jenkins-Did you per-
sonally talk to Senator Nc
Carthy on that day?
Secretary Stevens-I did.
Mr.. Jenkins-I will ask you.
Mr.. Secretary, first Of all. does
the Army or does your Office.
you, as Secretary. sometimes
have a telephone conversation
monitored?
Secretary Stevens - Mr..
jenkins, ! would like, if I may.
to take a moment here in or
der to tell this committee pre-
cisely what happened.
Mr.. Jenkins-That would
be the next question as to why
you did it. But do you some
times have one monitored?
Secretary Stevens-n I may.
/ will tell you what the pro-
cedure is, sir.
Mr.. Jenkins-If you want to
answer the next question now.
go right ahead, it is quite all
right.
Secretary Stevens-When I
came into the Office of Secre-
tary of the Army, I made in
quiry as to-of course-as to
who my various assistants
were, and got acquainted with
them. And I found that out
side of my door, at a desk
there. sits a competent civil
servant by the name Of Jack
Lucas.
I don't know just how long
Mr.. Lucas has been in that
particular job. except that I
do know that he was there
throughout the service Of
Frank Pace, as Secretary Of
the Army, and I believe back
into Frank PAGES predecessors
regime. I inquired as to what
the procedure was, and I will
explain to you what that pro-
cedudre is, and I left it un-
changed as I came into Office
precisely as I found it.
Evening star., 1954-04-24
Stevens First Visit
To Fort Monmouth

Mr.. jenkins: May I interrupt
with one question. Had you not.
prior to that date and since your
installation as Secretary Of the
Army, visited Fort Monmouth?
Secretary Stevens: This was
my first visit.
Mr.. jenkins: Very well, Go
ahead.
Secretary Stevens: It was on
this trip around to some of these
laboratories, we came to one
lab which required a special
security clearance to gain admit
tance. AS Secretary of the
Army
Mr.. jenkins: Without giving
away any information that
might be Of aid or comfort to
the enemy, if there is one. de-
scribe the nature of that install
lation.
Secretary Stevens: That in
stallation has to do with ad-
vanced research and develop
ment on radar.
Mr.. jenkins: Very weh
Secretary Stevens: I was
qualified, as Secretary of the
Army. holding the highest ,
clearanceS, to enter the lab
oratory, but it was not clear
whether anybody else was or
wasn't. I made an on-the-
spot decision that I wanted
to see the lab, and I would
take with me those in the
party who had been elected
to the Congress by the people
of the United States. THAT in
cluded Senator Mccarthy,
Senator Smith, and Congress
man Auchincloss.
Mr.. jenkins: State whether
or not MIR. Adams was ad-
mitted.
Secretary Stevens: Yes.
Adams, I believe was in. He
has proper clearance. and I
think he was in.
Mr.. jenkins: You may pro-
ceed. Go ahead.
Secretary Stevens: We spent
possibly 10 or IL minutes in
the lab, and then came out:
/ and when we came out I
quickly became aware that
Mr.. Cohn was exceedingly
angry that he had not been
permitted to go with us into
the lab.
Mr.. jenkins: Now I want
you to describe to the COM
mittee the reactions. the con-
duct, the statements of Mr..
Cohn on that occasion, stat
ing what you know personally,
stating also information given
to you by those present and
whom you expect to use as
witnesses in the investigation
of this controversy.
Secretary Stevens: All right,
Mr.. jenkins.
Col. BeLieu. my military
assistant, told me that Mr..
Cohn-
Mr.. jenkins: Is he the young
man sitting behind you now?
Secretary Stevens: Yes, sir.
Mr.. Jenkins: Go ahead.
Evening star., 1954-04-24
Stevens Questioned
About Transcript

Senator Mundt-The Chair
has ruled that before asking
the committee to vote, he
wants to find out whether or
not there is actually a trans
cript of the conversation
present. The only way I can
find that out is to have the
counsel interrogate the Secre-
tary on that point.
Mr.. Jenkins-Mr. Stevens,
do you have a transcription of
that conversation?
Mr.. Welch-Could I hear
that question read?
Senator Mundt-The report
er will read the question.
(Whereupon the question
was read by the, reporter as
above recorded.)
Secretary Stevens-Yes.
Mr.. Jenkins-By whom was
1t made?
Secretary Stevens-By Mr..
Lucas.
Mr.. Jenkins-Where is Mr..
Lucas? Is he here available?
Secretary Stevens-Yes, sir.
he is in my office.
Mr.. Jenkins-Have you read
that transcription?
Secretary Stevens-I have
looked at it.
Mr.. Jenkins-Have you read
it?
Secretary Stevens-Yes, sir.
Mr.. Jenkins-State whether
or not that transcription was
made from memory or wheth-
er or not it was made from
notes taken at the time and
simultaneously with this con-
sversation?
Secretary Stevens-It was
made from shorthand notes
taken at the time of the con-
versation.
Mr.. Jenkins-And you say
you have read it?
Secretary Stevens-Yes, sir.
Mr.. Jenkins-Is not it an
accurate. verbatim report of
your conversation with Sena-
tor Mccarthy?
Secretary Stevens-I would
say it was.
Senator Mccarthy - Mr..
Chairman.
Senator Mundt - Senator
Mccarthy?
Senator McCarthy-Again
may say ! think If there is
a verbatim recording of this
conversation, it should be put
into the record, but I think it
should not be put into the
record until Mr.. Lucas is here
under oath and swears that it
contains everything that was
said, and is examined as to
complete accuracy. If that is
done. / frankly think it should
be put into the record I do
not think Mr.. Stevens-and
this is no reflection upon you,
Mr.. Secretary
Senator Mundt-The chair
man will uphold Senator Nc
Carthy's point Of order. We
will have Mr.. Lucas sworn and
testify before receiving the
evidence.
Mr.. Jenkins-I concede, In
my opinion. Senator Mccarthy
is right about it. 1t is now
practically adjourning time.
May suggest that the meet
ing now be adjourned and that
Mr.. Stevens stand aside until
2:30, and Mr.. Lucas be put on
at that time.
Senator Mundt-The COM
mittee will take a recess until
2:30. Mr.. Lucas will be the
first witness.
Evening star., 1954-04-24
Partial Transcript
Covers Bitter Dispute
AT Mccarthy Hearing
The UerbGtint transcript OF
hiohlightS of yesterdays Army
Mccarthy hearing folloWS::


The uerbotim transcript OF
highlights of yesterdays Army
Mccarthy hearing follows::
Mr.. jenkins: Was anything
said to you on that day tOcto-
ber IA, 1859 by the Senator
or any member of his staff
with reference to any prefer
entail treatment to be accord
ed Schine?
Secretary Stevens: Well. Mr..
Schine and I had quite an
interesting talk in the car,
riding downtown.
Mr.. Jenkins: Will you relate
what that conversation was.
Mr.. Secretary?
Secretary Stevens: Well, the
conversation was along the
line that I was doing a good
job in ferreting out Commu-
nists.
Mr.. jenkins: Was that your
statement or his?
Secretary Stevens: That was
Mr.. Schine's statement.
Mr.. Jenkins: Very well.
Secretary Stevens: That he
thought 1 could go a long way
in this field. And that he would
like to help me. He thought
that it would be a much more
logical plan for him to become
a special assistant of mine
Mr.. Jenkins: Than to do
what?
Secretary Stevens: Ito as
sist in the Communist pro-
gram, Communicating pro-
gram in the Army. and he
thought that would be a more
logical assignment than being
inducted into the Army. I
told David Schine substan-
TALLY this
Mr.. jenkins: Is that the first
time that David Schine ever
intimated to you that he
wanted some special dispensa-
ton?
Secretary Stevens: That is
my first definite recollection.
Mr.. Jenkins: Very well. And
you told David Schine what?
Secretary Stevens: I said to
him that one of the best
things that had ever happened
to me in my life was my op-
portunity for service in the
United States Army in two
world wars; that felt that if
he would face up to his forth
coming induction and ap-
proach it in the right way,
that he would look back on it
all his life as one of the great
experiences that he had had.
and that il for any reason he
did not take his military
training, in my opinion he
would regret it the rest of his
life. And I pointed out to him
that I had served: my sons
had served. and we all think
we got a great deal out Of it
in addition to having the op-
portunity Of serving our coun-
try. 'N@
Mr.. jenkins: Do you recall
his reply to that, Mr.. Secre-
tary?
Secretary Stevens: I think
that it made some impression
on Mr.. Schine. don't know,
of course, how much.
Mr.. Jenkins: That was on
October IA, as we understand
it?
Secretary Stevens: That is
correct.
Mr.. Jenkins: During that
day, at any time, either at the
hearings, luncheons or else
where. did or not Senator Nc
Carthy or any member of his
staff speak to you with refer
ence to Schine?
Secretary Stevens: I do not
recall that.
Evening star., 1954-04-24
Butter so Cents in Sumou

Butter. now subsidized. is con-
sidered a luxury in Samoa at so
cents a pound. Apia reports. In
some Southwest Pacific island
areas, however. the price is twice
that.
Evening star., 1954-04-24
Secretary stevens-Yes.

Secretary Stevens-Yes.
Mr.. Jenkins-Did you say
that that conversation was
monitored?
Secretary Stevens said
that Mr.. Lucas was on the
wire.
Mr.. Jenkins--Do you have a
record made by Mr.. Lucas of
that conversation? And / have
not asked for it yet, Mr.. WEIGH.
/ am asking if he has record
made by Mr.. Lucas of that
The Key West citizen., 1954-12-29
Portugal Warns
India Against
Taking Territory

LISBON, Portugal B-Portugal
warned India Monday night that she
will use "all possible means" TO
resist any invasion Of the Portu-
guese Indian territory of Damao.
A communique from the Over
seas Ministry said armed men
with combat equipment had been
sighted on Indian territory near
the Portuguese pocket and that
since Friday Indian border Off
cialS had stopped all mail and
travellers to and from Damao.
Damao, an area of 1,449 square
miles important for its valuable
teak forests, fishing and shipbuild-
ing, has been held by the Portu-
guese since 1859. 1t is one of the
three Portuguese districts on In
dia's west coast which Prime Min
lister Nehru has demanded repeat
edly be ceded to India.
Portugal has refused even to
discuss the Indian demands. Nehru
has said his government would use
only peaceful means to secure the
territory.
The Key West citizen., 1954-12-29
IOttawa Man
ITortureCase

OTTAWA R-Police are holding
a 265-pound Ottawa man they
accuse of repeatedly torturing and
beating his 86-year-old roommate
and longtime friend because he
thought the old ahn had stolen
$500 from him.
Alex KeninSki, 65, was arrested
last night and charged with in
flicting grievous bodily harm.
The victim, Ukrainian-born Ivan
Onowrichuk, was hospitaliZed and
reported in a serious condition. He
continued to deny that he had lifted
the money from Keninski's pants
pocket on the night of Dec. II
while Keninski, his friend for 20
years, was sleeping.
Police said On0wrichuk, from his
hospital bed, told them through an
interpreter that Keninski:
After discovering his loss on Dec,
13 beat him up despite the older
mans denials he knew nothing of
the theft;
Ripped the house apart" in a
vain search for the money;
Forced a red hot iron between
Onowrichuk's lips Dec. II:
Yanked out two of his teeth with
pliers Dec. IS;
Pierced his ear lobes repeatedly
with wires Dec. 10, then twisted
them Dec. 10;
And when he still denied the
theft, beat him up again and
jumped up and down on his body.
Following up an anonymous tele-
phone call, two police officers dis
covered the old man Monday in a
"pitiful condition" in the bedroom
the two men shared in Keninski'S
home.