Evening star., 1951-03-22
Continued From First Page)

IdS SOille pdIG Ill NoOIlcy UuSl-
ness operations.
Senator Hunt, Democrat, o1
Wyoming clashed Sharply with
Mr.. Carroll at one point anc
stormed, 1--WE don't believe a wore
you are saying"
Senator Hunt charged that high
officials of the American Tele.
phone & Telegraph Co. cooperate
with large bookmaking syndicate!
to install batteries of telephones
When Senator O'Conor, Democrat
of Maryland asked Mr.. Carroll i
he desired to make any commen
on Senator Hunts allegation tht
witness replied:
None other than his statement
is untrue"
Attempts to Apologize.
Later, Mr.. Carroll said he wantee
to apologize to Senator Hunt arc
explained that what he was at
tempting to convey was his belle.
that there is no collusion between
telephone company officials ane
gamblers.
Senator Hunt insisted that telc.
phone company officials are aware
that gamblers operate extensively
with telephone company equip.
ment. He said he intended to hav,
telephone officials appear befors
the committee and explain theil
position.
Mr.. Carroll drew laughter from
the packed committee hearing
room when he told the Senator:
he did not think any Federal Law
could stamp out betting on horss
races.
II think gambling is a biological
necessity" the short, elderly wit.
ness explained. 1T gives sub.
stance to peoples day dreams"
Denies ANY Bribery Attempt.
In st. Louis, Mr.. Carroll said
about 100000 people receive
pleasure and. excitement from
gambling" He estimated tha'
about 1900 persons make theil
livelihood out of illegal gambling
operations.
Mr.. Carroll said he had nevel
attempted to bribe police official:
and said they had never inter-
ferred with him because Il never
directly accept a wager"
Mr.. Carroll told the investi.
gators today they are wrong i
they think big bookies use come
back" men to force down tracl
odds on long shots.
Mr.. Burling took Mr.. Carol
through series of questions abou'
the intricacies of the betting in
dustry.
He asked about the activities g.
10 Urvanni, a come back" mai
who testified previously.
Bridling, Mr.. Carroll said tht
committee has a probably falss
idea" about comeback activities.
Committee members have con.
tended that such operators act fol
bookies, placing large bets at thu
tracks at the last moment to drive
down the odds on long shots which
have been bet on heavily by the
bookies' customers.
Carroll Snaps Back.
That's a sort of second-degree
layoff, isn't it?" Mr.. Burling asked
mo, I don't think the question
of layoff enters into it," Mr.. Car
roll replied.
Mr.. Burling said that as he un-
derstands it, a comeback man re-
ceives instructions to throw q
great deal of money into the ma
chimes (parimutueD and distort
the odds in the last go seconds
before a race.
That is absolutely false" Mr.
Carroll snapped.
He added that it relieved the
obligation" of the betting com.
missioner and also gave him Ger.
tainty that he would be paid.
Mr.. Burling mentioned opera.
tions he said had been carried or
at 318 Missouri avenue, in East st
Louis. He said the volume of bet.
ting there ran into millions O.
dollars"
He asked if Mr.. Carroll hadn'
told a Senate Commerce subcom
mittee investigating big time book.
making last spring that the Law
of averages would insure Is per
cent profit on such operations
He said Carroll now seemed to b,
contradicting this testimony will
his observations about the come
back activities.
Licensed in Nevada.
Il don't think it is contrary,
Mr.. Carroll replied.
Mr.. Carroll said that many
many people believe they are do
ing business with him whel
actually they are not.
you mean they do it witt
Mooney?" asked Mr.. Burling.
That's right" Mr.. Carroll re
piled.
Mr.. Carroll told the committe
he is licensed as a betting com
missioner in Reno, New, but ha
never done any business there
In st. Louis, he said, he work
with the gambling organization
operated by John Mooney ant
Michael Grady. This o~ganiza
tion handled about $40 million il
1949, he said.
About half of the money be
with the Mooney-G Grady organ
ization is laid off" to him, MI
Carroll testified. His personal ne
profit from the operation in 1874!
was about $4,000. he said. H,
said he retired from the book
making business several month
ago and now has no income ex
cept from investments.
Mr.. Carroll is a middle-aged
Imild-appearing man who look
more like a grocer than a ma
tionally known maker of bettin,