The Waterbury Democrat., 1939-04-07


 RAYMOND E. BALDWIN
 The name of C0nnecticut's gov ernor was written into the trial record yesterday in connection with efforts as lobbyist. on the Cross ticket. I had heard that Mayor Hayes was mayor of Waterbury and the candidate on the Democratic ticket for lieutenant governor, and had been elect ed lieutenant-governor and l had met neither gentlemen until the session of 1885. And MT. teary looked me up in the the time and during the session of capitol for the legislature program of the City of Waterbury and want ed me to undertake the work. Why he came to me, I don't know. Hand- ling the affairs of city is some times rather difficult-rather hard because you don't know what the political swing is going to be. They were particularly anxious and nerv- ous about their bond issue. The other matters that had in the gen. eral assembly were not matters that would have kept me in Hartford all the time and during hte session ot 1885 there were ten or a dozen mat ters that were passed for the City of Waterbury.
 e.. Will you just describe them?
 A. There were 38 or. Almost of them were bond issues.
 Of the record:
 o. Didn't you know that MT Hayes was member of the legisla- ture in the late 20's?
 A. MT. Murray, if I ever wanted to contact with the mayor prior to 1885, I have no recollection.
 Record:
 0. All allied bond issues, were they?
 A. We'll, think, more or less allied. I think they had other mat ters. Apparently they had quar- rel or falling-out with Culhane and they were anxious and nervous about it.
 o. Who do you mean by "they?'
 A. We'll later I talked witt Mayor Hayes in Hartford about the bills Waterbury wanted and didn't want.
 @. He knew of your arrangement with Leary. Did he?
 A. I don't see how there can b' any question because he was giving me orders. could go and find ou what he wanted on the various bill! pending. Sometimes Culhane ane others from Waterbury would op pose them in the session of 1885 The bond issues were passed and thu bills they particularly didn't wan were not passed.
 Did you make that answer to that question?
 A. Yes.
 No COncealment
 Q. Mayor Hayes, as far as you know, made no effort to conceal the fact that you were lobbying for the City of Waterbury. Did he?
 A. No.
 Q. He openly conferred with you Didn't he?
 A. Yes.
 Record:
 o. In other words, they came out 100 per cent on what they wanted?
 A. believe they did. I cannot look at it from any point, except a. representing a client-one who fig. ures his client got 100 per cent what he wanted and didn't get what ht didn't want.
 c, Your client was regarded a. the City of Waterbury?
 A. Yes.
 o. That employment really wa. made by MT. Hayes?
 A. No, no-the employment wa! made by Leary. MT, Leary didn' show up around the capitol so ofter and I only saw MT. Hayes in tht morning. Mayor Hayes was only thu director of what bills were wanted and what weren't wanted.
 Juror: MT. Williamson, we art strictly to understand that it wal MT. Leary that hired you to repre-. sent the City of Waterbury? =
 A. There is no question about that.
 AIcorn: What were your arrange. ments with MT. Leary?
 A. had no particular arrange. ments except to so ahead.
 o, Didn't you gaive any particu. lar financial arrangement as to pay. ment?
 A. Not at that moment.
 @. How did you expect to be paic on an employment made by MT Leary if he had no authority?
 A. If controller of a large city came into your office you would as. sume that payment would be al right.
 Real Authority
 o. What I'm getting at is didn' you realize that you had to get some real authority for that employment and, didn't you-in fact-get 1t be. fore you went to work?
 A. No. I didn't.
 @. What talk, if any. did yol have with MT. Hayes about that?
 A. None.
 @. No talk at all?
 A. No talk at all.
 o. Did he know that you wer, employed in behalf of the city?
 A. Of course - how could ht otherwise? would not be running to him about bills that pertained t( the City of Waterbury. l had no in, terest in Waterbury In fact, know less about Waterbury than any cit, in the state.
 o. Now, you say you went to sex Harry Mackenzie about 1t?
 A. Sure, I did.
 Q. What for?
 A. You can't get on legislative programs unless you have somebody with you--unless you have contact T1,ot se xuHot axynt.xy lox x,xynx sxS