The daily worker. [volume] (Chicago, Ill.) 1924-1958, 1932-06-16

have been sitting in my place for somebody
must sit here. Fate" is something out
side of the laws of nature, something mythical
do not believe in mysticism. Certain causes
were, of course, responsible for the fact that I
got past certain dangers, but number of other
incidentals, series of other causes might have
taken place which could have brought about
quite the opposite result So-called fate has
nothing to DO with it.
Ludwig: Lenin spent many years abroad as
an immigrant. You had occasion to be abroad
not very long, Do you regard this as your short
coming? Do you think that more useful to the
revolution were those who lived abroad as
emigre and had an opportunity to study Europe
at close range but on the other hand were out
OF immediate contact with the people; or that
the reVolutionists who worked here knew the
sentiments of the people but knew little Of
Europe?
Stain: Lenn must be excluded from the
comparison. Very few of those who remained in
Russia were so closely in contact with Russian
reality, with the labor movement within the
country as was Lenin, although he spent many
years abroad. Every time when came to him
abroad-19O7- 1912, I found on his table
heaps Of letters from practical workers in Rus
STA, and always Lenin knew more than those
who remained in Russia. His living abroad he
always considered a burden for himself
In our Party and in its leadership there are,
Of course, more comrades who remained in Rus
: STA. who did not go abroad, than there are for
mer emlgrants; and the former of course had
the possibility of better serving the revolution
than the emigrantS. Only few enligrants are
left in our Party. OF the two million members
they number 100 to ZOO OF the 10 members
OF the G. c., hardly more than to have been
in emigration.
AS regards acquaintance with Europe the
study of Europe, naturally those who wished to
study Europe had more possibility of doing SO
when they were actually in Europe And in
this sense those who have not lived long time
abroad have lost something But residence
abroad does not possess any decisive Importance
Tor the study OF European economy, technique
cadres OF the labor movement, literature of every
kind: belle lettres or scientific Other condi-
lions being equal it is, of course easier to study
Europe when one is staying there But the
disadvantage which people have who have not
spent long time in Europe, is of no great inn
portance. On the other hand I know many
comrades who have lived 20 years abroad some
where In Charlottenburg or in the Latin Quarter
sat in the cafe, drank beer, but nevertheless
were not able to study Europe and did not I'M
derstand it.
LuoWIg: 10 you not think that among the
Germans, as a nation the love of order is more
developed than the love of freedom?
Stain: At one time people in Germany did in
fact have great respect for law In the year
1907 when 1 spent two or three months in Ber-
ln we Russian Bolshevih frequently laughed at
certain German friends on account of this re-
Spect Tor the law. For instance, story is told
that when the Berlin social democratic PARTY
executive convened some demonstration or other
on certain day at certain hour to which
members Of the organizations were to come from
all the suburbs, group of 200 people from a
suburb arrived in the city at the proper time but
did not come to the demonstration but stood
Two hours on the station platform unable to
decide to leave it, because there was no ticket
collector at the barrier and because there was
nobody to whom they could give up their tickets.
1t was jofngly told that it was necessary for
Russian comrade to show the Germans the
simple way out of the situation: to leave the
platform without giving up their ticketsl
Is there anything like this in Germany now?
Are the laws respected in Germany now? Do
not those same national socialists who, so it
would appear, more than all others keep watch
over bourgeois lawfulness, break the laws, de-
stroy workers clubs and kill workers without
being punished? I do not speak of the workers
who, it appears, have lost all respect for bour-