Daily Kennebec journal. [microfilm reel] (Augusta, Me.) 1870-1975, 1924-08-15
COUNSEL-WITNESS
CLASH AT HEARING
LOEB AND LEOPOLD

Chicago, Aug. .14-(By A. P)-Two
alienists for the state admitted under
cross examination today in the hear
ing to determine punishment for
Richard Loeb and Nathan Leopold,
Jr.. for kidnapping and killing Rob-
ert Franks, that their conclusions
that the youths were sane, were ar
rived at after brief conversations un-
der unfavorable conditions and per-
functory physical examinations.
Cross examination Of the two doc
tors-Dr. Hugh T. Patrick and DR..
Archibald Church. Chicago phsychia-
trists-occupied virtually the entire
day, DR.. Church's direct testimony
taking only few minutes.
The proceedings were enlivened by
a heated three clash be-
tween DIR. Church, Clarence S. OAR
row, chief of defense counsel and
Robert E. Grove. states attorney,
curtailed only when Judge John f.
Caverly ordeed five minute recess.
Mr.. Darrow was questioning Dr..
Church as to the guise under which
he had approached the youths.
Now isn't it fact that you went
u lHcH OnIy lot the sane vi SeLllHS
evidence on which they could be
hanged" Mr.. barrow shot at the
witness.
DR.. Church had asserted that he
had been introduced to the youths as
a doctor and that the purpose Of his
visit was explained to them.
You know that isn't true. Mr..
barrow he said. heatedly, shaking
his finger at the defense attorney.
Mr.. Grove was on his feet shouting
for the doctor to continue his reply
while at the same time Mr.. barrow
uttered an apology and requested the
question be stricken from the record
as IAN inadvertance" Judge Caverly
added his calm voice to the up-oar
with an announcement of a recess,
with Mr.. Darrow and the prosecutor
exchanging final verbal thrusts
Forty minutes of questioning paved
the way for the defense's first attack
upon the conclusions of the states
mental Psychologists. Conditions in
the states attorneys Office where
Leopold and Loeb were examined
soon afte.' their arrest. of persons
present and the lack of acquaintance
of the doctors with the youths back
ground were brought out.
Did you ever in your life make an
examination as to a mental condition
under such circumstances? asked
Benjamin Bachrach of defense coun-
sell Of DR.. Patrick.
Il think not" replied the psy-
CHA rist.
Virtually the same question was
asked later of DR.. Church by Mr..
barrow and gained approximately
the same response.
Too many persons We're present
for an ideal examination" and
really. there were very few ques-
tons asked were replies by Dr..
Church.
DR.. Church agreed with defense
alienists that the endocrine glands
have an influence on human conduct.
Part of the defense's plea for peni-
tertiary sentences instead of hang
ing for Leopold and Loeb is based on
the theory that functional disorders
of the endocrines has helped to
make them mentally sick. DR.. Church
qualified as an expert on endocrin-
ology. saying he thought he had re-
ported the first case. Under careful
cross examination by the veteran
barrow, DR.. Church admitted that the
present ages of Loeb and Leopold
are within the trying period Of a
young mans life and that no doctor
nor teacher could examine youths of
their age without taking that into
considerations
Dr.. Church was excused from the
witness stand with final question as
to who had retained him to act for the
prosecution. AS in the instance of DR..
Patrick. who testified yesterday, he
was paid daily fee of $3.50. Dr.
Church said he first was approached
by Samuel Ettelson. former corpora
ton counsel of Chicago, and close
friend of Jacob Franks, father of the
murdered boy.
Completion of testimony by the
states first two alienists left the
states attorney three additional alien
lists and list of approximately two
score lay witnesses frem whom to ad-
duce evidence tomorrow.