davidaulloa/AmericanStories huggingface dataset:
The New York herald., 1922-02-23
EXPLOSION OF STILL
KILLS HOOCH MAKER
Victim, for Secrecy, Had
Brooklyn Rooms Alright,
Causing His Death.
PUFF FOLLOWS BLAZE
Mystery of Tenement Revealed
in Wrecked Plant and
Bottles.
PUFF FOLLOWS BLAZE

Two rooms on the ground floor of the
fiftyfour family tenement at 1856 Co
lumbia street. Brooklyn. about which
before has been considerable mystery.
gave up their secret yesterday after one
of the strangest accidents ever recorded
by the police. The rooms were used for
the operation of big still.
At 4 o'clock neighbors and policemen
who broke down the door to investigate
cries for help found the twisted wreck
of the still and other evidences of an
explosion that made practically no sound
and man who was burned so badly he
could not talk. He died before the ar
rival of an ambulance surgeon. and last
night the police were trying to learn his
identity.
Three months ago Paul Messina,
owner of the tenement. rented the
rooms. which were in the rear. to a
man whom he knew only as "Condito."
Condito disappeared a few days later,
but his place as tenant was taken by a
short, thickly set man who appeared
every morning. spent the day In the
flat and left at o'clock every after
noon. The stranger never spoke to any
of the 200 persons in the house and as
the rent was paid regularly. he was
never bothered.
noon. the man was heard moving about
in the flat. Antonio Durango. who has
a small grocery store Adjoining the flat,
remarked to customers that the fellow
was in and paid no more attention to
the footsteps until he heard a muffled
Puff" followed by moan and a cry
for help.
Durango and others ran first to the
street to shout and blow police whistles
L. Hv.A
and put their shoulders to 1t. The lock
snapped and they tumbled into the
room, which was almost dark. Flash
lamps revealed the unidentified man
on his back about five feet from the
base of a still. His face and neck were
burned and 1t was evident he had in
hailed flame.
An inspection OF the rooms showed
the ceilings and walls scared by flame.
Part of the still was warped and
twisted. The air was almost void Of
oxygen.
Detectives found later that the mans
death was probably due to his anxiety
to conceal his whiskey making plant by
making his flat practically alright. He
had constructed thickly padded shut
ter for the inside Of the one window and
another for the door leading to the hall
and had plugged up ventilator. The
result was that the vaporizing alcohol
filled every cubic inch Of space in the
rooms and transformed them into some
thing similar to the combustion cham
ber of a gas engine.
When the operator lighted match,
as he evidently had, the inflammable
gas ignited with a flare instead of a
blast, enveloping him in fire. but maxi
ing little noise. After the flare the lack
of oxygen prevented the room from
taking fire.
The mans body was taken to the
Morgue and finger prints were made.
There was nothing In the pockets Of the
clothing or the apartment to identify
him.
In the fiat were found nine barrels of
mash. five dozen whiskey bottles and
quantity of coloring matter.
The New York herald., 1922-02-23
Greenwich Village Acts
to Uphold Fair Fame

II UsINESS people of Greenwich
Is Village. including proprietors
of dance halls and tea par
lors, will get together at Greenwich
House, 27 Barrow street. tonight
and organize a Chamber of Com
merce. Business interests of the
village, it was explained, have
grown weary Of the impression
that the village is not a wholesome
place in which to live, work or
play. They purpose to correct that
by setting the locality right in the
eyes of the public.
The speakers at the organization
meeting will be Robert Grier Cook,
president of the Fifth Avenue AS
ISOLATION; Gustavus Kirby, presi-
dent of the Washington Square
Association; the Rev. A. R. Petty
of the Judson Memorial Church,
Willis Fletcher Johnson of the
North American Repieto and Major
Edwin w. Dayton. secretary of the
Boys Work Department of the
Rotary Club of New York.
The New York herald., 1922-02-23
PENNSYLVANIA DRYS
FOR WOMAN SENATOR
Rachel c. Robinson Nom
mated as Party Candidate.

PITTSBURGH, Feb. 22.-The biennial
state convention of the Prohibition
party, in session here to-day. nominated
candidates for office at the coming elec-
tlon and adopted platform Rachel G.
Robinson of Williamsburg, president OF
the Allegheny County w. c. T. u. was
named a candidate for United states
Senator, while Miss Ella Brummell.
state secretary of the w. G. T. u. was
nominated for State Secretary of In
ternal Affairs
other nominations we're: William
Rept, Old Forge, Pa. Governor; II. E
English. Grove city, Lieutenant-Gov-
crnor; j.. G. Lewis. Delaware county,
United States Senator.
Platform panks include: Passage Of
laws prohibiting manufacture and sale
of habit forming drugs, including to-
bacco more stringent motion picture
censorship, a plea for Industrial peace
and establishment Of courts to decide in
dustrial disputes.
The New York herald., 1922-02-23
ANTI-VOLSTEAD CIGAR,
SOAKED, LACKS KICK

SANTA BARBARA. Feb. 22.--The "antl-
volstead smoke" or alcoholic cigar. has
made its appearance here. It's producer
e Del Caro-. cigarmaker, paid fine OF
$3.50 in public court following a plea If
guilty 20 the charge of having liquor In
his possession.
A brass spraying device exhibited
elected the explanation that Il was used
to saturate the tobacco leaves with
liauor before rolling. The cigar thos
treated does not contain kick" e
was contended In defense, although Il
was conceded that it carried a heavy
frcigNlsd fragrance. M
The New York herald., 1922-02-23
SIXTY FAMILIES FLEE
BY FIRE ESCAPES
Battle Police to Return for
Their Belongings.

Sixty negro families fled by the fire
escapes yesterday when flames swept
through the five story tenement house
at 16 East 1920 street. The fire started
in an apartment on the first floor and
coursed up the stairway to the fifth floor.
where it "mushroomed."
The tenants hurried to the fire escapes
when they found means Of escape by the
stairway cut off. Many of them at
tempted to break through police and
fire lines to return for belongings, but
were restrained. The fire was confined
to the building in which II started.
Damage was estimated at $1,000.
The New York herald., 1922-02-23
Horowitz's Conclusion.

Mr.. Horowitz said he had studied the
committees plan and was ready to
guarantee that model tenements could
be constructed to rent at moderate
prices. Houses can be built to rent
at reasonable prices il contractors are
satisfied with reasonable profits" he
added. 1.-THE Lockwood plan does not
appeal to the building profiteer."
Senator Lockwood said that the bill Is
not a Metropolitan Life Insurance Com
pany measure. but originated In the
committee and was indorsed by the
committee. lie said:
I'VE have a situation in New York
city that can be solved only by the
construction on a large scale of reason
ably priced tenements. In respect to
this bill. every question of safety has
been looked into and we know what
can be done. Something must be done
right away il the health and welfare of
the residents of New York are to be
protected"
The New York herald., 1922-02-23
FEAR OF DEATH BROUGHT
DEATH.

BERLIN. Feb. 22-whcn jury re-
turned verdict OF life imprisonment
upon A. Hoppe, murderer, and then
announced II would have TO reconsider
the verdict on account of an error. Koppe
became so frightened over the possibility
OF a death sentence that he suffered
heart failure and died within a., few
hours. ~
The New York herald., 1922-02-23

BERN, Switzerland, Feb. % (Associated
Press) The young son of former Em-
peror Charles and Empress Zita of Aus
tria-Hungary has completely recovered
from the operation he underwent some
time ago and will leave Switzerland to-
morrow accompanied by former Arch
duchess Maria Theresa for Madeira. He
is the last of the Hapsburgs remaining
In Hertsenstein Castle. which now Will
be closed
The New York herald., 1922-02-23
MURDERERS OF DATO
EXTRADfTED TO SPAIN
Germany Hands Ouer Two
Assossins of Premier.

BERLrN, Feb. 22.--Two of the alleged
murderers of Eduardo Dato, the Spanish
Premier. who was assasslnated in Mad
rid In March of last year, have been
formally handed over to the Spanish
authorities in accordance with an agree
ment between the German and Spanish
Governments.
The New York herald., 1922-02-23

Luis Nicolau and his wife have been
detained In Berlin since last year on
charge Of completely in the assassination
of Premier Dato. The Spanish Govern
ment several times requested their ex-
tradition 10 Span.
The New York herald., 1922-02-23
J. A. LEWIS TO HEAD BANK.
Former omce BOY Elected Presi-
dcut of ST. Louis Institution.

ST.. LOUIS. Feb. 22.-J. A. Lewis.
vice-president of the Irving National
Bank OF New York. who started his
career as an office boy here to-day
was elected president of the Republic
National Bank. one q the largest finan-
ciaDinstitutions of( his city.
The New York herald., 1922-02-23
BUILDERS INDORSE
LOCKWOOD PLANS
Support Proposal for Insur-
ance Companies to Invest in
Model Tenements.
RENTAL AT 81 A ROOM
L. J. Horowitz and Frederick
A. Matthews Say Building
Boom Would Ensue.

Special Dispatch to THE NEw YoRK HERALD.
New York Herald Bureau.
Albany, Feb. 22.
Apartments can be built to rent for
81 room in New York, representatives
of the largest building interests in the
city told the legislative Insurance Com
mittees to-day in ipdorsing the Lock-
wood committees proposal that insur-
ance companies be allowed to invest
their surplus funds in model tenements.
The plan is being consid cred favor
ably. There is fair prospect 1t will be
passed. Louis J. Horowitz. president
of the Thompson-Starrett Company
which does $40,000.000 worth of build
ing annually, and Frederick A. Matthews,
treasurer of the Matthews Building
Company, said adoption of the Lock
wood committees scheme would be a
tremendous boon to building.
All the Lockwood committee has as
serted is that five and six room model
tenement could be built to rent for 50
a room. The builders said that could
be beaten. Furthermore. they declared.
1t would solve the housing problem in
a short time.
Ready to Go Into Business.
Walter Stabler, comptroller OF the
Metropolitan Life Insurance Company.
and LIE Roy A. Lincoln, general coun-
sci for the company announced that
corporation was ready to go into the
building business Immediately under the
provisions and safeguards of the Lock-
wood bill. Investigations have convinced
the company the scheme is practical,
they said Both declared their first con-
sideration must be for the company's
policyholders but that with the safety
of their clients assured they were ready
to go ahead
IF we can satisfy ourselves" said
Mr.. Lincoln, that we can build these
houses and on average rental or 50
month obtain net revenue that will yield
per cent interest on investment and
an additional per cent. for amortiza-
ton and depreciation we shall go
ahead. We have taken up the subject
with the Thompson-Starrett Company
and have been informed that it is pos
sible to construct a unit of buildings
which at the present costs of materials
and labor could rent from So to $40 a
room, making the average cost so a
room.
There will be no speculation on our
part. Our first plan would be to con-
struct a unit covering square block
that it, about 200 by GOO feet. This would
require an investment of from 100000
to 81 100000"
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1922-04-12
TABLE BOARD.

COPPER KETTLE CAFETERIA, SCI Vermont
ave. opposite war risk-Finest quality food
home cooking; combination breakfast, 25c
luncheon. soc; dinner, 4Oe. Our motor, high
est quality, lowest prices. 15'
I84I ST. N.W.-ENcellent meals, well bal
anced. properly cooked. attractively served.
North 2323 l5s
1871 RANDOLPH ST. N.W.--E1ceIlsnt meals,
well served: good home cooking. 13s
EARLY BREAKFAST; lunches packed. 223
n NV. 1Ss
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1922-04-12
REAE ESTATE
OFFICES AND STUDIOS.

DESIRABLE PnIVAfE ROOM fncidental
use. reception room; preferably to lawyer
TO Albee bldg ~
FURNISHED OFFICE. COMPLETE, $40 PER
month. Room 33l rtar bldg.
DESK SPACE IN OFFICE IN CONTINENTAL
Trust bldg. Address Boz 212-p, Star oGse. u
POPE BUILDING. s1I iAth Ct. i.W.-EnW
owner. new msLAssRspt; gsod once rooms FOR
rent: epen for inspsetien; electric liGhtss
elevator: ST. 30 TO "a. 50 per mo. HERxAN
=: UAscH. 1929 New York ave. nv.
Y0R RBNT-AckIN BLDG, 1911 g At. NV.
Very desirable Ones rooms. single OF en- suite.
Two large ROOMS. about 900 square tset
each; all ip AEst-eiass conditicn; rent reason.
able. 4. g. Wn41Y. rs Evans bldg. Asia
t248.
G20 18th ST.-ENTIKE SE6OND FLOOR;
wide frontage; 100 feet deep; immediate pos
SHANNON 4 LUCHS.
713 18th st. Main 2345.
CHEsLEY ECILDNG. l3l7-13l9 n. Y. AVE-
: large rooms. 2nd floor; large windows.
facing Il st northern light. Just on 14th
ST. Suitable for any business.
JESSE L. HEISKELL, Ills Eye st nv.
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1922-04-12
ron RENql.

S. BELOFF. Exclusive Agent,
QaI 18th St. NV.
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1922-04-12
RENTAL BUREAU.

ROOMS = APARTMENTS HOUSEKEEPING
suites-Fiye hundred of them all 'PERSON-
ALLY INSPECTED" by us. to choose from
Every detail in our files. Let us do the cl,as-
ing you do the choosing Investigate. WASH,
INGTON SERVICE BUREAU, AT District
National Bank bldg. Main 2l33. 17s
DRAWINGS en- Ole Of Jingle and double fur.
nished rooms; save searching. Illustrated Rem
~ Ca JILL 4At,asNASeeR 40 19s
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1922-04-12
APARTMENTS TO LET

UNFURNISHED-(C0
8 ROOMS AND BATH NEWLY DECORAT-
ed; 40 per month. N. NEY HEALTHY CO.,
72s 18th 81. NV Main $3.50.
iao0 BELMONT sT.-ONE ROON. DINING
room and kitchen combined. and hath. GEO.
W. ILNKING, 1710 K at.
ZR0OM AND BATH APAkTNHNT WITH
use Of kitchsn; private home, Ansooatis. Call
2130 18th ct. sc.
ROOMS. KITCHEN. PRIVATE BATH. AP-
ply 6l3 End ct. NV. IL
18th 81. AND COLUMBIA RE- LARGE
rooms. private bath; steam heat. hot water.
2467 18th Ut. NV. Apply at store.
5 ROOMS; GAS AND ELEC. LIGHTS; ONE
square from Congressional Library; rent rsa-
sonabls. Apply after $50 pm. 8O7 B 1t: Sc.
SUITABLE FOR DOCTOR, DENTIST, ETC;
frat floor. front. in large apt: house; finest
location; large rooms, reception hall. bath
only $126: one extra room, $25. Apply no
1Ath st. NV, Room 200. ".
9 ROOMS AND BATH: IDEAL LOCATION:
e3ll Conn. sve;i rental; $50 per month tiS
DESIRABLE 3-R. 4 BATH HOUSEKEEPING
apartment in modern hreproof building. ~
Gated in best northwest section. Price, $so'
ElLEksoN 4 wBMPLE, ~,
134 18th st. NV. Main S0o.
2II8 Pa. Ave. NV.
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1922-04-12
WANTED-GARAGES.

wANTED'GARAGE IN IMMEDIATE VICIN-
iry Of Brighton Hotel, 2123 California st.
Call or write Apartment 212 ~
WANTED3 Oh CAR GARAGE. SUITABLE
for repair shop, in NV. R. D. BEATTlE, 1905
18th nj n ". 10
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1922-04-12
FOR RENT-ROOMS
FURNISHED ROOMS-Continued

1901 N. HAMP. AVE. NV.
Front room. suitable for two; electricity and
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1922-04-12

A store with two fats. h.-w. h.. electricity.
in Georgia ave-, the 1000 block: no lease. VIII
sell for $l3, 500, under easy terms.
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1922-04-12
WANTED-RO0MS

Observation-Disclosures. 2 rooms. kitchenette
and bath, ON first or second door, BY settled
couple. no children; vicinity Of Lincoln Park
? FURNISHED. light housekeeping roons.
Box o. ssa-S BUST Sta. ,'e eiaes. ''@'' 's' iss
wANfED-By married coaIpie, no esildfsn. two
o. three furnished or nfuInishsd. Lii, rooms
dress Box soe sfs'i Star once ssH.A' il.
BY MAY with or adjoining bath; down
town section; hot-water, slee.; must DO res-
sGese 81. 'ssn ssar ees
COUPLE desire room in refined home with
privilege Of getting ewn breakfast and using
leges. Address Bog 25.E. Star ONCE.
MIDDLE-AGED LADY desires two unfurnish-
location and terms. Address Box a5e-D, star
ONCE.
LARGE ROOM with kitchenette, furnished or
unfurnishsd. on cool st., upper deoFsefown,
Address Bog 2E. Star office:
YOUNG JAPANESE wishes room in private
9 LARGE, unfurnshed rooms, kItchenette and
bath Call Frank. 7l40-J. Reasonable. IA
WANTED-ROOMs WITH BOARD.
BUsINEss MAN desires furnished room and
board with strictly private and renasd Piotss'
wANTED-Room and board. with Hebrew
family; uptown section preferred. Address
Box 382-D, Star Office. 12s
SUBURBAN ROOME WITH BOARD.
WANTED At ONCE-R00M AND BOARD
for couple with seven month-ofd baby; reason-
able. Chevy Chase preferred Address Box
250D. Star office. Ia
SUBURBAN ROOMS WITH ROAND.
TWO MEN desire two furnished rooms. with
strictly private board, with private family Of
two; ami. Clarendon preferred; by May !.
Address Box 45-E, Star Office.
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1922-04-12
APARTMENTS TO LET

FUkNISHED-C0at
1880 FAIRMONT ST. N.W.--TWo DOM
muuieating rooms, adjoining bath, furniahed
for LAX; reasonahle. Phone Cal. l044s. fa'
i5S6 Iztk 81. NV, APT. INK LANCE
rooms. back porch; Win sell fuxniturs and give
ysar's hsas 70. 3Ioo; rent. 80 par m meat
FINE AF1kFANNT; Ro0ND. KffCHtN-
cite, bath; ssmi-furnishsd.
1887 CALVERT ct. NV. 12s
iN5 NEW HAMFSHFRE AVE. NV. lC0k.
ner st)-3 outside rooms. kitchsnetts. bath;
walking distance devntovs; e7erythias fur
uished. H.
dH7 3 81 NV, TIE SENECA = XFAkT
ments. Nos D and II, vacant April Is; 2
rooms and bath; gas cookers. electric light;
nm. Totem, 7e6 9th 81 nv
IAdMEDIATE POSSESSION = COMPLETELY
Furnished. rooms. Kitchen. BATH, screened
porch; piano. 222S Decatur pl., near Conn.
ave. and S. Main 728. Il.
18th ST. NEAR YOU-ONE ROOM, DINING
and kitchen combined. and bath; partly fur
nished: $50. GEO. W. LlNKINS. l1lo yt-
THE AIABEMARLE.
100 st. NV.
Delightful furnished outside apartment Of
rooms and bath; immediate occupancy; ol00
Per month. Apply janitor for inspection.
THE F. a. SMITH COMPANY.
lll4-14la Eye Ct: ~
1880 MASS. AVE. NV.
FouR nicely furnishsd rooms and bath. See
janitoP, 14e
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1922-04-12

WANTED TO PURCHASE - BETACHED
house, 8 rooms and battle, In the nsi{heoI-
Purchaser WIN pay up to $4,000. A61,s0
Box sod, Star ONCE.
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1922-04-12

90 G. ST. Sc, End floor. blocks from Capt.
tol-One reom; running water; large porch
ssd lawn private family; gsutlsmsa 1refered.
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1922-04-12

Louisiana ave.. facing Supreme Court:
frontage Of 40 f.: three stores with nats
above; garage in rear. Renting for over $500
per month. VIII sell for 1000; good terms
Best Investment In the city.
Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1922-04-12

aud bath, on first or second floor b. settled
couple. no children; vicinity Of Lincoln Park
or Bro0kland. Address Box Gid, Star once.
Norwich bulletin., 1922-12-14
POPULARITY PRIZE STARTED
 RUTH RUIcKH0LDT's GAY LIFT

Her popularity was her downfall, ac- cording to Mrs. Ruth Ruickhoidt, or Ruth Champion, formerly of New London, who is again behind the wall of the New York state prison at Auburn, where she must remain until July IS, 1925. with little to do save review her cheekered career which has extended from the biackmail- ing and fraud to tho responsibility of the wife of New Haven physician.
 , Mrs. Ruickholdt was paroled a short time ago from the prison where she was serving sentence for attempted larceny of jewels from New London store. After being parole on Oct. 24 she went to Hartford, where she started a blackmall game which case various Connecticut citizens several thousand dollars before the police caught her and had her taken back to Auburn where she must serve outt her term.
 Mrs Ruiekholdt asoribes her 6ownIaIl to her victory in a popularity contest which gave her a free trip to Washing ton. Thereafter, the quiet and sedate life of her home town of Waterford. was unbAarable and for several years she led a strenuous life in various, cities in New England and New York. Twice she came to police stteHti0n for unpaid hotel bills once in New Haven and once in Hartford. Later shA married Dr. Charles Ruick- holdt of New Haven. They took a trir to Boston and there she resumed her career" by attempting to betray some of her friends.
Norwich bulletin., 1922-12-14
BANKERS TRUST co. CELEBRATES
 OPENING f BANK ONE YEAR AGO

The anniversary of its first year of bus mess will be reached today (rhursdaY) by Norwich's newest banking institution, the Bankers Trust Co.,, which opened in the ThayeF building for its first day Of business on Wednesday, Dec. 14, 1921. Commercial accounts received on the first day were $76, ,214.0e and savings accounts S3,675.50, the business for that day clos ing with total assets of $2so, ,SsS.I1. The paid in capital and surplus when the bank opened was $125 ,0N0.
 Since the first day the oaAk has had an uninterrupted growth aad eEGSs. which bring it now with total resources of about S7ee,oeo. Its books sAOw 1.S0e savings department doDesitnrs and 400 commercial depositoRs,
 One of the best known Woolen maAu- factnrers in this end of the state. Angus Park of Hanover, is it's president. He is prominently identified with the Airlie mills at Hanover, the AsSswaga mills at Dayville and the Angus Park Manufac- turing Co. at Glastonbury. Secretary and treasurer of the Bankers Trust Co. is George A. Finn. who has had wide banking experience, having been for 1t years auditor of the Greenwich Trust C.. s7,ooo,0o0 corporation, and for three years senior state bank exanaiAer for Coa- inecticut.
 Its three vice presidents are aA pReuIi- 1 nent citizens of Norwtch-ffnothy c
Norwich bulletin., 1922-12-14

Murphy, an ex-mayor, Charles A. Sax ton and Joseph c. Worth, well kouyn manufacturers.
 Tho directors of the bank include David D. Disco, James J. Donohue, Edwin ". Higgins, Angus Park, Herbert NJ. Le- rou, Charles D. Foster, Louis J. Fontaine, Timothy C. Murphy. MaCtin Rozyeki. William H. Cruickshank, James Graham, Abner Schwartz, Joseph c. Worth, Charles A. Saxton and George A. Finn.
 Inc statement of the condition of the bank at tho close of business on Sept 15, 1892, ~as as follows:
 Assets-Loans and discounts, ss5A- S14.ss; bonds and securities, S1S5.7Se 1; funds set aside for savings depositors, $142, ,Ss7.43; furniture and fixtures, sl5,- sa7.51; cash on hand and in banks, 3s1,- S5s.4s; accrued interest receivable. &s1s17; expense account. sS,44s.59; to- tai assets, $7o4,f71.o4.
 Liabilities-Capttal stock, $10e,oe0 ; surplus S25,0o0; due to banks,- $S1.77 ; commercial deposits, $Sss, ,111.S5i savings deposits. s14s,ss7.4s; total liabilities S7o4, ,171.e4.
 In honor of the anniversary, the bank is to be attractively decorated with flow CTS and ferns, and. the citizens of Nor wich are cordially invited. as they were year ago. to como into the bank and pay a visit whether they are to tranSaei bUsiness or not.