The New York herald., 1922-05-06
BROKER DENIES Being
WATCHDOG FORDIER
But Wilson of Carpenter
Firm Admits Bankrupt
Financed Him.
HE REPAID SMALL PART
Caffry Testifies He Refused
to Pay $4,000 to Dodge
Hearing.
DER CONTINUES ACTIVE
Said to Be Connected With
Capital Raising and Pro-
noting Scheme.
DER CONTINUES ACTIVE

A New York Stock Exchange house
was called into the hearings in the
$4,000, 900 bankruptcy OF +. d. der 6:
Co. yesterday when e. Waring Wilson,
partner of Carpenter. Caffry & Co., "a
broadway. was questioned regarding
his and his firms dealings with Elmore
d. Dier, head Of the bankrupt firm.
Other members of Stock Exchange
houses will beicalled later.
Assertions by Saul S. Myers. at
torney for the receiver, that Mr.. Will
son. who bought his half interest in
Carpenter. Caffry & Co. with a $4,000
loan underwritten by DER, was the
watchdog" for Dier in the Stock Ex-
change firm and operated in nier's in
terests there, were denied by Mr.. Will
son and by Joseph Spencer. attorney
for the firm.
Mr.. Wilson had been D,er's lawyer.
but denied that he. was Dier's guiding
spirit, that he knew his client was on
the interest Of $4,000 charged by Levy
Bros, money lenders. on the $4,000
loan was paid by Carpenter, Caffry
& Co.
Charles w. Caffry, p member of the
Arm. and the firms counsel, Joseph
Spencer stated that there had never
been an Irregular deal between der.
Wilson or their frm.
Gets Offer of Inn immunity.
Mr. Caffry said that an offer Of Inn
munity from being suppened If a
contribution of $4,000 were made to
the DER creditors fund had been made
to his company by attorn, Us for the re-
ceiver.
1--WE were offered what was described
as n clean bill of health and immu-
nifty from testifying and having our
books and records subpuenaed II we
ould come across" said Mr.. Caffiy,
"but l replied that there was nothing
doing-and here We are"
Saul S. Myers of counsel for the re-
ceiver. when informed of this state
ment made no comment.
Mr.. Myers read into the record state
mant saying that the five brokerage
firms. four of them members of the
New York Stock Exchange. who were
mentioned In the testimony at the last
hearing had no connection or dealings
with E. ID. Di,r * Co. other than in
direct brokerage dealings, and were In
no way connected with any irregulnr
tradings. These firms are Carlisle. Mel
lick 4 Co., De Haven & Townsend. Ar
thur Upper & Co.. Orvls Brothers &
Co and c. II. Van Beuran e Co.
Mr.. Wilson testified that he lived at
Rosemont. Pa. was a member of the
Pennsylvania Bar and that he has be en
member of Carpenter, Caffry g. Co.
since June TO- 1890. OF the $4,000 he
owed to DER for taking up the loan Mr..
Wilson testified that he had repaid only
s33.3o0. and that the balance had been
released by Dier in consideration of
Wilson's services. The money he paid
to Dier. Mr.. Wilkon said, he withdrew
from Carpenter. Caffry &, Co. Decem-
Der 81. 1921. just two weeks before the
Dier failure.
DER Lends Wilson $4,000.
An additional $4,000 was lent by
DER to Wilson In 1920, he stated and of
this but $4,000 was repaid, and DIer
refused the balance, asking that Il be
placed in an account with Carpenter.
Caffry Co., under Mr.. Wilson's name
and trades made on it. I: was trans
ferred later to the name OF Thlelen. n
remained Dier's in reality
Three notes. aggregating 100000.
from DER to the Stock Exchang. house
were exhibited. They were put up by
DER when his account was closed and
were on the Ell Progresso Silver Com
pany. one of the DER mines This was
considerably in excess of tie amount OF
Dier's debt.
II tried to get all could" Wilson
said.
Because you thought he was b.sted ?"
asked Mr.. Myers.
by no means, merely to protect the
firm. These notes may be worth a lot"
he said, "as the FL Progresso property
may turn out TO be worth millions"
Mr.. Wilson admitted later that Dier's
title TO the El Progresso was arestion-
able
Bernard J. Refs. certified public ac-
countant, testified that his investira-
tions of the books Of Dier and of the
firm OF Carpenter. Caffry & Co. indi-
Gated that from November 1921, Mt least
95 per cent Of the orders OF Dier e. Co.
were bucketed in what he termed "fhe
old fashioned way" Hc defined the
new style of bucketing" through the
notification OF customers orders" lie
said the DER firm paid TO Percy Thomas
special commissions over the usual
amount FOR the use of the latter's name
In certain dummy accounts.
Nullilcstion Of Orders.
Modification OF orders was Indicated
clearly. he said. through tho books OF
DER & Co. in many deals with Carpen-
der, Caffry & Co. Refs gave IL as his
opinion that Carpenter. Csffry e. Co.
had traded for Dier on much simmer
MARGINS than those customary.
Refs concluded by stating that Car
pender, Caffry g. Co had received $751;
600 in commissions when Dier's impcnd-
ing failure was common talk along the
Street"
That Elmorc ID. Der Is still Interested
considerably in the brokerage and pro-
motion field was indicated by Raymond
NJ Bond. an oil operator from Fort
Worth. Tex. staying at the McAlpln.
He was questioned regarding the opera
tons Of the Mutual Capital Corporation
OF 347 Madison avenue, In which. he
said "Dr." DER Is interested and has
been at the cfices within the last few
days. According to Bond. Dicr and q
man named Cara have continually asked
him 20 take an active interest In the cor
4. -.