New-York tribune., 1922-12-14
Building Labor
Defying Laws,
Say Witnesses
Employers Are at Mercy of
Unions, Is Declaration
at Lockwood Hearing;
May Seek Indictments
Firm Regulation Asked
Untermyer Recommends a
State Trade Commission
For Protection of Public

Defiance by building trades unions
Of the rulings Of the Lockwood legis-
lative committee and the laws enacted
as a result Of its previous investiga-
tion Of the building industry was
shown In testimony taken at the hear
ing before tho committee yesterday in
City Hall. Following the testimony
Samuel Untermyer. counsel TO tho COM
mittce. recommended that a bill be
submitted 10 the Legislature creating
a state trade commission which would
regulate both labor unions and the en-
pioyers' business organizations. He de-
clared this was needed 10 protect the
public as we'll as 70 protect the en-
ployers and employees.
Officials OF the plumbers unions nnd
other labor men examined as witnesses
at yesterdays hearing approved Of
such a measure. Some OF the plumb
ers' union officials refused TO waive i'm
munity and were excused from testify
ug. Milton Sehnaicr, Of the Master
Plumbers Association, testified the
employers were at the mercy of the
union men because OF the denIofGlized
condition OF the employers organlza-
tion. In view Of the Indictment and
prosecution Of the master plumbers as
result Of tho previous investigation
the witness said the employers would
not attend meetings for fear some
thing might be taid or done which
would be construed as illegal. The
journeymen plumbers took advantage
Of this situation, he said, and were
only half as efficient to-day as COM
pared with five years ago.
Afraid 20 Make Any Move
"Do you mean to imply that. in order
20 get efficiency from your men, you
ought 20 be allowed TO resume your
Illegal practices?" asked Mr. Inter
myer.
The witness replied that he did not
mean that
"But the law has not interfered with
the good things. has tit has only
touched upon the wrong ones?' asked
Dir. Untermyer.
"The law has not" replied Schnaier
"but by virtue of the action taken
against the master plumbers, they be-
ing ordinary laymen and not knowing
where the law begins and where the
law ends, they are afraid 70 look al
each other"
When Mr. Untermyer drew out OF
witnesses that the plumbers and the
plasterers' unions were not living ar
to the law and the former reeommenda'
tiOns of the Lockwood committee, nc
declared these unions we're likely "a
get in trouble. He intimated that IN
dletments might be sought against
these organizations.
The latter part Of the session yes
terday was enlivened By sharp tEs
between counsel and representatives Of
the Building Trades Employers Asso'
citation and union labor witnesses. Mr
Unterniyer denounced Christian G
Norman, chairman Of the board Of d.
rcctors Of the Building Trades En-
plovers Association, as having beer
athe stumbling block in the whole
building industry in this city,
Norman replied IN bantefinl
mood, that he was willing TO be the
stumbling block. Previous testimony
given by Norman showed that ne hse
advised the business agents OF th'
Independent Cement Helpers Unior
not to join the international organi
zatiOn, because such action would oal
them from obtaining agreements Win
the cement contractors. As Mr. Nor
man was about 20 leave the witnes,
stand, Assemblyman MeWhinney' o.
the committee, wanted 10 know whether
the witness meant to say the employers
and the master cement workers had tht
right TO dictate 70 the men a. to what
labor organization they should belong
The witness replied in the negative.
ain plain English, isn't Il blackjack.
ing them into Joining what you want
them 70 joint" thundered Assembly
man McWhinney.