The Pensacola journal. (Pensacola, Fla.) 1898-1985, 1921-07-21
SPY in RANKS OF
UNION WORKERS IS
GRILLED ON STAND
Was Member of Union, Served
as Detective in Behalf
of Mine Owners.
TOLD OF DAY OF GUN
BATTLE AT MATEWAN
Said That Men at Union Head.
quarters Were Jubilant
When Killing Reported.
(ey The Assoclated Press.)


WASHINGTON, July 20.-Aroused
by a description of methods used by
private detectives in obtaining infor-
nation about activities of union
miners, Senator Mcclellan, democrat,
Tennessee, at today's hearing before
the committee investigating disorders
in the Mingo, West Virginia, coal field,
declared It was not right for men to
work themselves into the confidence
of union officials and then to report
to detective agencies as TO what was
going on.
C. E. Lively testified that while a
member Of the United Nine Workers
he served as a Baldwin -Felts agency
operative in behalf of the mine own
ers. During the past nine years. he
said, he attended union meetings, was
vice-president of a local, and attended
conventions as a delegate, all the while
making regular reports TO the detec-
tive agency.
do you think it was right and
prope rto do as you did7" inquired
Senator McKellar. When Lively re-
piled that he thought It was iustifia-
BILE, the Tennessee senator asked
whether the miners would have let
him into their meetings If they had
known ne was a detective.
Let me I'M" Lively retorted. why
they would have turned me over to the
undertaken"
S. A. Davis. counsel for the opera
tors remarked the department of JUS
tice resorted to the practice OF having
its agents join unions and other or
ganizations in order to report develop
ments.
81 don't care If it does" declared
McKellar. Il don't think it's the right
thing to do. Conduct like that doesn't
fit in with my idea of American honor.
No wonden you're having trouble in
West Virginia If you're doing things
like that.
Senator McKeIlar pressed Lively for
information as to whether, when he
attended conventions OF the miners, he
collected expenses from both the
miners and detective agency. Lively
declared he never collected from both,
but made it a rule to divide the cx-
penses.
ooh, I see, you had a delicate sense
of right and wrong" put in Senator
Kenyon, republican, Iowa.
Lively testified that he kept the fact
he was a detective a secret both from
coal operators for whom he worked
and from union miners with whom he
associated until after the gun battle
at Matewan, W. Va, in May, 1920,
during which ten men, among them
seven BaIdwin-FeIts detectives, were
killed.
The day of the shooting, Lively told
the committee, he was at United Nine
Workers headquarters in Charleston,
w. va. When the news of the affray
was received. the witness declared,
almost all "the union men at the head
quarters agreed it was a pretty good
thing and seemed to enjoy it."
One man, the committee was tod,
shook hands with himself and said it
was the best news he had heard IN a
long time"
Lively testified that during the coal
strike troubles in Colorado he had
gone there as a miner detective. He
said he killed q man In self-defense,
surrendered, and for Is months re-
mained in jail, mot wanting trial"
While in prison he talked TO men
Jailed for disorder in connection with
the strike. and made regular reports to
his agency. After 1s months, he add
ed, he pleaded guilty to involuntary
manslaughter and was released.
In the Aingo region, Lively asserted,
he had seen non-union men whipped,
shot at and killed" for refusing to
join the union.