The Birmingham age-herald., 1921-03-23
BITTER CLASHES MARK HEAR|NGOF
 RAILROAD TANGLE
Walsh Declares Pennsylvania Maintained Spies and Ar
 SenalS to Take Care
 of Labor Troubles
By Associated Press

| ny AssOcthpeu fress Chicago, March 22-Charges that the Pennsylvania railroad was fighting for the open shop and that the road main tained spy system before the war,
 were the subjects of heated, ali-day discussion before the railroad labor board today
 Brig Gen. W. W. Atterbury vice pres ident of the Pennsylvania, charged the unions with attempting to force the closed shop, and Frank P. Walsh, labor attorney, retalated with declara tions that the Pennsylvania had maintained spies and arsenals to take care of labor troubles.
 The whole days testimony revolved about General Atterbury's stand that he could negotiate agreements with his own employees, but that no just and reason Iable agreements applicable to the entire country could be written by anybody. He also maintained the right of the minority assuming to represent all employees and using coercion in attempting to make them join the union.
 ADMITS SPY SYSTEM
 Attorney Walsh opened his charges of a spy system on the Pennsylvania with a statement that sSoo,oOo had been spent | in 1914 on the roads police system Gem eral Atterbury explained that this amount covered all protective measures, such as crossing watchmen and similar employees Under questioning, however, he admitted that the road did maintain a spy system but declared he could not say how much had been spent on that department.
 When MT. Walsh asked the witness if the road did not have little arsenals at various points where you kept guns and revolvers. Chairman K. M. Barton halt ed the examination oA the ground that it was getting away from the inquiry ordered by the board. Several board members joined in the subsequent dis cussion. but O. A. Wharton, labor mem Der, finally insisted that the examination continue.
 MT. Walsh then explained that the rule on discrimination against any employe because of union affiliation was the
 most important rule that there is.' His questions, he said, were intended to show that "a situation might arise. and had arisen on the Pennsylvania where dis putes between employees and the road could not be settled, despite General At terbury's statement that all the men on the road had grown up together"
 INTRODUCES BULLETIN
 General Atterbury introduced a union bulletin which informed shop craft en- ployes that there would be mo seniority provisions for, or positions provided for
 B. ~-r~- bers of the organizations affiliated with the railway employees department of the American Federation of IADor This bulletin was a direct attempt, General Atterbury asserted, to force non-union men to join the union under fear of los- Ing their seniority rights.
 A closed shop either union or non union was denounced by the general. who said a worker should have the right to be, or not to be. union man.
 Allegations against ,ne Pennsylvania were in turn brought up by Mir. Walsh. who read copy of letter purported to have been written by I. W. Geer, general manager of the St. Louis- Columbus di- vision of the Pennsylvania, in which s,i- pervisory employees were ordered "eve to resort to defamation of all labor or ganzations if necessary to obtain cs;- tain information. The letter asked o.- ficials to inquire into the attitude cs- employees regarding proposed wage re- auctions and waS dated March 70. l9.. General Atterbury declared he had never heard of the letter and. after calling Mr Geer in Sti Louis by long distance tele- phone, announced that Mir. Geer denied that he had written such a letter and declared no such letter had been written With his authority. The matter woul ] be investigated at once. General Alter bury said.
 HOLDS VOTES NOT FAIR
 Two votes on piece work taken by the unions. showing sS per cent of the em- ployes in favor of the hourly basis of pay. were not fair, General Atterbury said. and declined to accept the union figures as fair.
 The open ballot as conducted by these organizations Is not a fair nor decent vote" said the witness. ITO have the men vote so that they may be intimidated if they don't vote the way their officers want them to vote.. Is not a decent way to ask a decent man to vote"
 Taking up General Atterburys mins.- ity reports as chairman cf the rafw5 executives labor committee in which nc stood against national board of Adjusx- n-ent. Mir. Walsh opened series of ques- tions on the statements of the minority group. General Atterbury declared na- tional boards would lead to natiouallsa- ticn and syndicalism and cited William z. Foster as "a syndicalist and A. F. l.. leader representative of the class of which the railroads were menaced.