Evening star., 1921-05-12
BILL
AGAIN UNDER FIRE
"FederaI Educational Lead
ership, Not Control"
Wanted, Is Position.

the establishment of a department Of
public welfare was again under fire
today at a joint hearing Of the Sem
ate and House committees on educa-
ton and labor Educators urged that
the provision of the bill creating a
branch of the proposed welfare de-
partment to deal with education be
eliminated. They insisted that edu-
cation was worthy of a separate de-
partment. with it's head a member of
the cabinet.
Representatives of labor told the
joint committee that the childrens
bureau. which the bill places under
the department Of welfare. should be
left in the Department of Labor. 1t
was insisted also that vocational
training should be made a bureau In
the Department of Labor, whether Il
dealt with former service men 0f
other persons.
Representative Harry L. Hull q
Iowa appeared before the joint COM
mittee in the interest of government
aid for the deaf and dumb.
DR.. Charles r. Mann. chairman Of
the educational division of the war
plans committee Of the general STAFF
of the Army, strongly urged upon
the JOINT committee that education
should be left to an independent de-
partment. He declared his opposition.
however. to the Capitalization of edu-
cational control in the federal gov
ernment The people in the states
should retain control of educational
matters. he said. 4 burst of applause
from the educators in the committee
room greeted this statement.
Opposes Capitalization.
DR.. Mann declared that the control
of large funds to be distributed for
ba Sf a TO q
would be an effective means of CEN
trailzing control of educational mat
ters in the federal government. no
matter what language might be used
in the law. He said that he was not
opposed to the kind of aid done now
by the Department of Agriculture.
which stimulated interest in educa-
tional matters.
Il am opposed to the government
holding large sums of money to be dis
tributed to the states to pay for educa-
tion," he said. 1T tends to educational
Capitalization" In reply to a question
by Senator Sterling of South Dakota.
DR.. Mann said that he thought the
Smith-Hughes educational act has
worked out badly in the main
DIR. Mann indicated that while he
was in favor of separate department
OF education. he was opposed to fea-
lures of the so-called Sterling-Towner
cation would be centralized in Wash
ington.
Il would like to have citizens come
to Washington to see how they can
help the government rather than to
come here to see what they can get out
of the government said DR.. Mann.
This brought another burst Of applause,
and Chairman Fess Of the House COM
mittee on education remarked that the
committee was seeking information
and not conducting a debating society,
and that the applause should be omit
ted.
Mr.. Fess suggested that at present
the bureau Of education is under the
Secretary Of Interior, who is absorbed
in other matters dealing with the nat
ural resources Of the country He
asked il it would not be to the advan-
tage of education to place 1t under the
department of welfare.
DR.. Mann admitted that the bureau
OF education was not receiving the at
tention it should. He pointed out that
the appropriations for the bureau this
year had been only $3.50. 900. an made
quate sum. He said. however, that in
chief educational oificer Of the govern
mont would be lessened II he became
merely an assistant secretary of well
fare. AS matter Of fact, DR.. Mann
said, he believed that education should
be placed above welfare. since education
entered into every welfare activity. In
cluding the public health. He said that
he should dislike to see the head Of the
public health service, the surgeon gem
eral. hereafter designated as an as
sistant secretary Of welfare.
Declares Salaries Inadequate.
The Kenyon-Fess bill. he pointed out,
provides salaries of only $1,000 for the
assistant secretaries. who are to have
He. said this was entirely inadequate.
and that a man of ability could NOT he
expected to serve in such capacity for
that amount. which was not a living
wage for such a man in Washington.
DR.. Mann insisted that it would be-
a grant gamble" as to whether cdu-
cation would be any better of under
the department Of public welfare than
it Is under the Interior Department.
U. 8 McGill, secretary Of the Ma
tional Education Association, told the
joint committee that the educators de-
sired a day to be heard next week.
and the committee determined to hear
them on Wednesday,. He backed up
the statement made yesterday by Rep
resentative Towner that the friends
Of education would not be satisfied
OF public welfare.
The educators and the friends Of
education generally feel that Il would
mean no advance for education" de-
clared Mr.. McGill. He insisted thaS
they wanted a separate department 0f
education and that they believed ulti.
mately they would get it. What We
want" he said. "is educational leader
ship from the government, but not
education control" He suggested that
the pending bill be amended by strik-
ing out all reference to education.
Edgar Wallace. representing the
American Federation Of Labor. recon-
mended that the children's bureau be
left in the Department Of Labor in
stead of being placed in the public
welfare department. He said that the
Department Of Labor was better able
to consider the needs Of children in
industry than would be the new de-
partment. The children of the work
ing people. he said. are the ones par
ticularly affected.
Vocational education. also, should
go to the Department Of Labor rather
than the Department of Public We'll
fare" said Mr.. Wallace. He argued
that the Department of Labor. being
conversant with the situation in the
world OF labor. would be better able
to advise the men as to the oppor-
tunities offered by the different trades
G. U. DEBATERS TO MEET.