New-York tribune., 1921-11-01
Commons for
Lloyd George
On Irish Issue
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law until man was convicted he was
presumed to be innocent.
The House must trust it's negotia-
tors or replace Them" Lloyd George
challenged, amid cheers.
IL want to know if you want us to
: make peace" he pursued and pro-
! ceeded to reckon the cost of peace and
war He dismissed the objection that
the Sim Feiners were rebels with the
remark that this was not the first time
| Great Britain had treated with rebels
with good effect.
Future of Empire Involved
Finishing with All c.oquent perora-
tion, the Premier declared that the de-
cision the House might face would be
! fateful one in the history of the
empire.
The Speaker of the House had
ruled that debate must be limited to
discussion Of the governments action
in entering into negotiations with the
Sim Tciners. and consequently Lord
Robert Ceci's amendment condemning
the governments policy toward ireland
in the last three years was out of
order.
Coloel Gretton, who introduced the
resolution of censure, was greeted
with ironical cheers several times dur
| ing his speech, in which he attacked
Sir Hamar Greenwood, Chief Secretary
for Ireland. and declared the Sim Fem
ers had been guilty Of several murders
and other outrages during the truce
and that they were driving the King s
government out of ireland. He said
the group he represented, the Union
lists, was small, but was not afraid to
e c~I>1 IL. l.
so, even though beaten.
| A great crowd filled the House of
Commons. Only a mild cheer greeted
Mr.. Lloyd George when he entered the
House of Parliament few minutes be-
fore the debate began. Earlier in the
day he had had conference with scv-
eral Cabinet ministers and also had
seen Lord Fitz Alan, Lord Lieutenant
Of Ireland.
According to expectations, the Pre-
mier, with Lord Birkenhcad. Winston
Churchill and Sir Hamar Greenwood.
will meet with the Irish delegates to-
morrow. This meeting is regarded as
of vital Importance. ard the chances of
an amicable settlement are regarded as
about even.
LONDON, Oct. 81 (Bs The Associated
| Press).--So far as the debate was de-
signed to draw information as to the
proceedings of the conference, it failed.
The Premier gave no information as to
what had been decided. OF was being
discussed, regarding Mr.. de Valera's
claim to independence and the ru-
mored attempts to arrange concessions
from Ulster for united Ireland. These
remain in the realm of speculation.
The one piece of information which
the Premier did give was that unless
something happened within few days,
presumably in the conference, to solve
the unsettled status of Ireland's two
! governments steps would be taken to
give the Ulster Parliament the powers
necessary to make it a real govern
ment.
Mr.. Lloyd George declared that the
time to question the negotiations was
when he first proposed them to the
Sim Fein by public correspondence.
last July.
Double Censure Sought
The resolution of censure as pre-
sented in Parliament was divided into
two sections the first, an expression of
grave apprehension that the govern
ment had entered into negotiations
with men who had repudiated the au-
thority of the crown, and, second. that
have been obtained for the actual pro-
posals made.
"No compact can come into effect
without the authority os Parliament" !"
said Mr.. Lloyd George. every detail
will be submitted to Parliament. The
agreement, if there be an agreement,
will have to be in the form Of an act
Of Parliament. Is it suggested that
the government ought to come to the
House and say: we want your sane
tion for this or that proposal?' (Cries
Of "Why not?").
mo negotiations could possibly be
some latitude. There are certain basic
principles, but these have been de-
clared to the House repeatedly. (Cries
Of What are they?")
"They have been declared time after
time, and we stand by them. We have
declared to Parliament repeatedly that
the government is prepared to meet any
representatives of. the Irish people who
could deliver the goods. l am prepared
to meet any one who can make a good
bargain on behalf of the population Of
Ireland"
II am now invited he went on. "to
state what the opinions of the govern
ment are in the middle of a confer
ence on the subjects discussed there.
| There are two kinds of conferences. the
| open conference, at which no business 9
is ever transacted, though it encour
ages the faithful, and the conference
of closed doors, which is the only con-
terence at which you can do business.
Then there is the conference of par
tial disclosure, which has all the vices
and none of the virtues of the other
| two, and is the way to disaster.
without caring one iota myself
the House of Commons must either
trust its negotiators or replace them
| Cloud cheers). I want to know. nv
colleagues want to know whether
you want US to try to make peace. If
you do not, there will be one glad man
who will go to his Sovereign and say:
Il hand in my portfolio (cheers).
If we discuss the matter in this
house there will be no conference"
Unless it was absolutely necessary
for the honor and security of the coun-
| try, he said, it was not the time to i'm
| pose great additional burdens upon the
taxpayers and invite the young men
once more to risk their lives. (Cheers
| from the Laborites.)
Before you do that" said the Pre-
mier, you must first of all convince
the people of this country that there
is no other alternative. You must con-
vince the empire. You must convince
| yourselves.
Negotiations are proceeding would
be happy If l could be in position to
announce that the great parent races
which founded this empire had decided
| to put an end to this feud of centuries
and SuhStituto rcpo 70 aSh;v ~ 49,