The New York herald., 1921-06-04
UNTERMYER C0NFERS
With INSURANCE MEN
ON REDUCING RATES
Lockwood Committee COun-
sci Insists on Lifting of
Ban Upon Mutuals.
WOULD END MONOPOLY
Fire Company Executives
at Meeting, but Exchange
Heads Are Absent.
DENIALS MADE OF USURY
Prudential and Mutual Life
Concerns and Brooklyn Bank
Defend Their Methods.
DENIALS MADE OF USURY

Executives of half a dozen of the
largest fire insurance companies doing
business in New York State spent
practically all of yesterday in con-
ference with Samuel Untermyer, coun-
sci to the Lockwood legislative COM
mittee. The discussion bore on pro-
posed notifications in the practices
of the New York Fire Insurance Ex-
change, upon which the Lockwood
committee will insist as condition to
suspension of further investigation.
Neither Mr.. Untermyer nor any Of
the insurance men present at the con-
ference would discuss what transpired,
but enough was learned from authori-
ment that the negotiations did not
progress to a finish and that they will
be continued before the committee re-
sumes its hearings on Tuesday.
Among the insurance men present
were Henry Evans. chairman of the
other large companies; James j. Hoey.
vice-president of the Continental and
formerly a State Insurance Commits
sioner: Cecil F. Shallcross. United
States manager of the North British
and Mercantile and an officer OF sew
eral American companies; L. c. Bus
we'll, vice president OF the Home Insur-
ance Company: Charles G.. Smith OF
the Great American and Otto Schaffer
of the Westchester Fire Insurance
Company.
Insurance circles in William street
were buzzing all day with reports and
gossip about the meeting and its i'm
port. Some of the talk was to the
Untermyer's office. although represen-
tative members OF the New York Fire
Insurance Exchange. went TO the con-
ference in their individual capacities
and not representing the exchange.
Mr.. Untermyer would neither affirm
nor deny this statement.
Negotiations Are Unofficial.
The suggestion that the negotiatio
so far have been of a more or less un-
official nature, so far as the exchange
is concerned. was In a certain measure
supported by Willis o. Robb, general
manager OF the exchange. He declined
TO discuss the situation except 10 point
out that neither y. S. Barlow of the
Queen Insurance Company and presi-
present.
"If there is conference there is
certainly no representative Of the ex-
change present" Mr.. Robh said.
As THE New York HERALD announced
yesterday, Mr. Untermyer. acting on be-
half OF the Lockwood committee on
Thursday afternoon sen: 10 Mr.. Evans
ond his associates some tentative sugges-
tions 20 serve as working basis for
notifications OF the exchanges prac-
tices about which the committee COM
plains. These may be summarized sub
stantially as follows:
IA discontlnuanCe OF the practice of
the exchange OF exercising supervision
over brokers and agents already licensed
by the state Insurance Department.
2--The free admission Of mutual COM
panics 10 all the privileges OF the ex-
change without abandoning the profit
sharing principles upon which they oper-
ate.
Am agreement by the companies
not TO oppose legislation that would
give the State Superintendent OF 1nsur-
ance the power to supervise rates fixed
by the exchange.
4.Discontinuancc OF the practice OF
allowing brokers an extra 5 per cent.
commission upon their agreement TO
limit their business TO exchange mem
bers.
5--An early revision Of rates with the
reserve interest earnings OF the com
panles taken into consideration and sp-
piled toward reduction.
The last mentioned condition, Il is
understood I'm insurance circles. Is the
one upon which II has been hardest TO
reach an agreement The insurance men
hold that the accruing interest on their
reserves properly belongs to profits and
maintain that this theory has been on
cieliy accepted by the National Associa-
ton of Insurance Commissioners.
Usurious Methods Denied.
Those bankers and officials OF life in.
surance companies who were willing yes
terday 10 discuss tho more recent Lock-
wood committee exposures regarding the
rates Of interest charged for mortgage
and building loans were quick 10 deny
the implication Of usurlous methods.
Oficials OF tho Prudential and Mutual
Life Insurance companies. while declin-
ing 10 make any formal statement, Of
fered general denial Of the charges.
They explained that they frequently
cano into possession Of property which
under the law they had 20 get rid or
They added that Il was the rule that
the realty men 10 whom the property
was sold" generally got rid OF II again
at a good profit
The Brooklyn Savings Bank. ono OF
the institutions which II was shown on
Thursday compelled n borrower 20 ac-
cept his loan IN Victory notes at par
when they were worth about 95 In the
market issued the following statement:
THE statement that the Brooklyn
Savings Bank demanded or received 90
per cent bonus In making mortgage
loans Is absolutely false.