The Washington herald., 1920-10-16
PACT DEBATED
BY PRESIDENT
AND HARDING
Face-to-Face Discussion of
U. S. Obligations Last
Year Made Public.
STAND is SAME TODAY
Republican Senator S Ques-
tions Elicits Explanations
Of Wilson Version.
STAND Is SAME TODAY
(By Universal Service.)

A remarkable 1ace-tO-face debate
between Senator Harding and Pres
ident Wilson on the league of ma
tions covenant was made public
here for the first time yesterday.
1t is contained in the official min
utes OF the conference between the
Senate Foreign Relations Commit
tee and Mr.. Wilson at the White
House on August 19, 1919. At that
time the President had just re-
turned from France. and the SEN
ate was particularly anxious that
he should make his Interpretation
of the covenant entirely clear.
The issue, it was pointed out to-
day, is precisely the same now as
it was at that time. The debate
follows:
senator Hardfng-The President
expressed a while ago surprise that
raised a question as to the value
OF this compact because OF the moral
obligation feature. Let me premise
by the statement that l look upon
a moral obligation as that which
the conscience of the contracting
party impels. The conscience of
any nation in Europe, for example,
may be warped by it's prejudices,
racial, geographical and otherwise.
II II be true and any nation may
put aside or exercise its judgment
as to the moral obligation in ac-
cepting any recommendation of the
league, really what do we get out
OF this international compact in the
enforcement of any decree?
The President. We get the center
ing upon it generally of the defin-
ite opinion of the word, expressed
through the authoritative organs of
the responsible governments.
Senator Harding. Another ques-
ton: That is surrendering the sug-
gestion of a moral obligation for
this Republic to the prejudices or
necessities of the nations of the Old
World, is it not?
The President. l do not under
stand that We make such a surren-
der. @
Senator Harding. Would you not
understand decree by the council
to be a suggestion of this moral
obligation?
The President. Certainly 1 would,
but we would have to concur in that
before 1t had any force of any kind.
Senator Harding. Would 1t not be
quite as moral for this Republic it,
self to determine it's moral obli-
cations?
The President. Undoubtedly, Sem
ator; but in the meantime the world
would not have the knowledge be-
fore 1T that there will be concerted
action by all the responsible gov
ernments of the world in the pro-
lection of the peace of the world.
The minute you do away with that
assurance to the world you have
reached the situation which pro-
duced the German war.
Senator Hardfng-What becomes
nf our standing among nations IL
the council fixes moral obligation
upon US and we reject the judgment
of the council as to the moral obli-
cation!
The President Pardon me if
remind you that we always have to
concur in that.
Senator Hnrding-Precisely but
the council states what constitutes
the moral obligation. If we agree;
but If we do not agree. then, in the
eyes of the world we have rejected
its judgment as to a moral obliga-
tion.
The President-Certainl and 1
hold that we are at liberty to do
that, IL our moral judgment hon
estly differs from the moral judg-
ment of the world.
seaator Harding-Then, let us go
back to the original inquiry, What
permanent value is there, then, to
this compact?
The President-The greatest per-
manent value, Senator, is the point
that I have raised. We are assum-
ing that the United States will not
concur in the general moral judg-
ment of the world. In my opinion,
she generally will. If it had been
known that this war was coming
on, her moral judgment would have
with that of the other
of the world, with that
of the other peoples of the world,
and IL Germany had known that
there was a possibility of that sort
of concurrence she never would have
dared to do what she did. Without
such notice served on the powers
AudI may WISH ~ repeat Ine 1Olly
that Germany commenced there is
no assurance to the world that
there will be peace even for a gem
Grafton, whereas II they know be-
forehand that there will be that
concert of judgment, there is the
most tremendous guaranty.
Senator Harding-Btt, Mr.. Presi-
dent. nobody expressed for us our
moral obligation to enter into this
war. That was our own expression,
was 1t not? .,....-
The President-Certainly 1t was
our concurrence in the judgment of
the world. 4
Senator Harding One of the
points / am getting at, il can
make 1t clear, is the necessity of a
written compact for this republic
to fulfill its moral obligations to
The President-Senator. this re-
public. IL ! interpret 1t rightly, does
not need a suggestion from any
to fulfill it's moral obliga-
tions.
Senator Harding-I quite agree
with that
The President-But Ii steadies the
whole world by its promise before
hand that 1t will stand with other
of similar judgment to
maintain right in the world.