Arizona republican., 1920-12-16
Steel Corporation
 Refuses Steel To
 Union Contractors

lContinued from Page Onel Untermyer reminded the witness. add ing that the president must not have his own way all the time"
 While his corporation was mem Der of the National steel Fabricators' association. Mir. Grace declared. it had acted independently of the associations "open shop" program and had not en- tered into any agreement with any other interests to sponsor the move ment.
 Asked if he believed the Bethlehem Steel corporation big enough to carry out its open shop principle, if every other steel company decided otherwise, the witness replied;
 That is a matter Of Judgment
 Denying that he had attempted to dictate to union builders, as to how they shoudd erect steel. MT. Grace as- serted: T told them they cannot have our fabricated steel
 When the witness denied knowledge of the movement among fabricated steel manufacturers in the United States to withhold steel from union shop builders, MT. Untermyer asked:
 DO you think 1t is proper thing for manufacturers throughout the country to get together and dictate to tie builders in the different cities of the country whether or not they shall erect steel on union or open shop prin- ciples?"
 Believe in "Open Shop
 As to the question of getting to- gether | do not know" replied MT Grace. "The question of whether II would be a good principle, I should say it would be-
 T firmly believe that any character of relations or associations to support and protect the open shop principle ot giving service by any character of la boring man. in this country is a very good thing"
 .Now, can't you see what an arro- gant and indefensible attitude 1t wouio be for the manufacturers of this coun- try to try and force their point of view of what you call the open shop in the erection of their steel when other people might believe 1t was te their best interest to erect it by the union shop?" asked the committed counsel.
 If they thought 1t was to protect their interests in line with what the5 considered the right policy for theil | interest, I would not consider it arro- gant, but self protection replied MT Grace.
 The steel head admitted that th' structural iron workers union had no discriminated against the non-unior product of the Bethlehem corporation but said it may happen"
 Facts and expectations and delu sions are different things" replied Mir Untermyer.
 Aqainst "coiiective Bargaining"
 Declaring he never liked the tern collective bargaining MT. Grace saiC he believed in a system of employees representation. He explained that tn Bethlehem employees elected their rep Iresentatives to deal with the manage ment of the company "in all phase affecting the service rendered p, them" and that the plan is workin very satisfactorily.
 If 95 per cent of the men in you shop were union men, they would no have anything more to say as a union asked Mir. Untermyer.
 We only recognize them as em ployes." replied the witness , You take the liberty. don't you, c ; joining trade associations and actin as a unit in other organizations wit them jointly"
 No, no, Mr. Untermyer." You deny your employees, don't yol the right of acting jointly with em ployes of other concerns in dealin 2 with you and your association?"
 We would not recignize it'' But you expect other people to rec
 ognize dealings in which you enter a
 a member of the trade association
 don't you, while denying your employt the same right?"
 Isn't it a fact, Mir. Grace" aske
 MT Untermyer, that in times of gres
 business activity unions seek to dom
 nate the situation and in times of de
 press1on or when labor is plentiful