The Washington times., 1920-10-08
DEBS REBUKES
SOV|ETS' CHIEF
Prisoner Candidate Upholds
British Labor's Stand on
/, Russia.
tContinued from First Pase.)

liOhh - ~~o>'
have been fully In the war against
him. France would have been, even
we should have been in It,. The Brit
ish Labor Party did great thing
II did all that in the circumstances
il could do. II was fight to stop
where It did stop. II for me TO say
that is to become a traitor, then .
traitor / am willing to be-"
SO, dear reader, you see this pris-
oner, Number 1858. is no more AFRAID
OF Nicolai Lenin that he is oi
Mitchell Palmer.
How do you explain it," / per-
sisted. :,
81 think it is probably ignorance,
he replied. IL don't believe Lenin
and the men around him understand
anything about some other countries.
They seem actually to believe that
England is ready for a revolution
like the one In Russia. They do not
know how much it meant to chal-
lenge the hypocrisy OF Lloyd George
to defy him to go to war, and they
believe the Labor Party could have
done much more. 1t would have
been madness.
"And In this country" / put in,
81 hear from friends of Lenin that
he implies we are on the verge OF
revolution also"
"Yes," he answered, apparently
he does. How foolish 1t would be!
Our Communist party In this coun-
try, with its doctrine of being pre-
q, cd 20 toka nnnfrnl nv
force when the opportunity comes, Is
not giving strength. 1t Is giving
weakness. 1t Is not by arming that
strength comes; it is by persuasion.
To try to use force now is only to
drive away those who might be with
us. When we have persuaded enough
persons, when thereby it is time for
us to rule, when the occasion comes,
then the strength will be given to
u.s."
NO NEED OF VIOLENCE.
Here Debs volunteered something,
without any suggestion from me,
that l must say startled me, as l,
like everybody else, had tmbibed un-
consciously from the newspapers
the conception Of a much less rea-
sonable man. Debs stopped, went
almost out of his way, to interpolate
the statement that the Constitution
OF the United States Is so drawn that
it enables the people without vio-
lence to obtain by amendment any
kind of government they may desire.
1t would do our fire-eaters some
good to compare that statement by
Debs with a certain passage about
amendment and revolution In Abra-
ham Lincoln's first inaugural.
This question of force is all essen
tial, and l wanted to drive it still
nearer home. So I mentioned the
bomb in Wall street, and asked him
what he would do If he were Presi-
dent" is the way I put it.
81 hope" he said. IF Debs were
President such a thing would not
occur"
YES" said, II know what you
mean; but l am talking across you
to my conservative friends. l want
an answer for them"
WELL" Debs cried willingly, do
we know who threw that bomb? Let
me ask you a question:; it is a rea-
sonable one. WHO BENEFITED?
WHO BENEFITED"
l nodded. "You mean a plant?"
/. SPIES STIR UP TROUBLE.
"No matter how indirect" he went
on, show remote, the sleuths benefit.
Thousands of them are making a
harvest today because that bomb
went off. Can you trace their influ-
ence? You cannot, l know, l who tell
you. have spent a lifetime with
them. There is not union, not a
local in this whole country, without
its spy. They are everywhere. Their
business is to stir up trouble, to di-
vide, to make discord between one
element and another, and to betray
us to the enemy. Once, long ago,
] wanted to take step in secret. l
found it was Immediately known to
the enemy. So / learned that any
attempt to accomplish anything in
secret is folly. Nothing can be done
that is of any use except what is
done in the open.
"But about this bomb, I speak of
the detectives because they profit by
it, but other causes may be mention
ed. How about the Administration?
How about the suppression Of free
speech, the imprisonments for con-
viction? That may be a real cause,
where the bomb is only a result.
I have worked against violence all