New-York tribune., 1920-12-16

rendered by them and the, plan worked
satisfactorily.
II 9b per cent Of the men in his shops
we're union men, said Mr.. Grace, they
would still not be recognized as union
men, but merely employees. I'VE would
deal with them as part of employees
representation SYSTEM" he added.
, "They would have large voice in
electing the men who speak for them"
No Joining Of Associations
"You take away the liberty Of join
ing trade associations, don't you? And
acting as unit with other organiza .
tions, don't you?"
"No, no, Mr.. Untermyer."
"But you deny your employees the
right of acting jointly with employees
of other concerns in dealing with you
and your associations 2"
1--WE would not r cognize it."
"Isn't it true, Mr.. Grace, that IN
times of great depression, when labor
is plentiful and work is scarce. the
tendency and interest of the employer
is to get his shop on basis in which
eliminating union and having non
union men?"
81 have said distinctly that we do
not discr Intimate. That is not our
method of operation. If you will par
don me-
"No. know your theories and
claims. You know | am not IN sym
pathy with them. We have had that
out. but this is BIT. inquiry, for facts
xvtax houa rnfhinop IN Gn
with it."
Opposes One Big Union
"You think it is better that all the
men in the steel industry should not
be banded together in single organ
ization?"
eyes, think 1t is better for them" :"
"That is the reason you are refusing
recognition ?"
'S1t is not on your account. 1t Is on
their account"
"I think it is better for them"
Mr.. Grace said that the open-shop
adopted "some time around September,
1919, when the American Federation Of
Labor attempted to organize the plant"
Asked whether it was not discrimi-
ration to insist on builders erecting on
the open-shop principle. Mr. Grace
said: ~ think we are asking him not
to discriminate. He is discriminating
because he rules out the non-union
men,"
Mr. Untermyer remarked that he dis
egreed with the firms policy and theo-
ries and CHOPPED It would change them"
He added that if Charles NJ. Schwab,
head of the board of governors of the
Bethlehem corporation, desired to ap-
pear before the Lockwood committee he
would be glad to hear him.
Mr.. Untermyer insisted at a certain
point in the testimony that the policy
Of the Bethlehem firm amounted to
dictation. Mr. Grace said he didn't
think 1t was dictation.
Denies Debating Policy
'sYou would not know whether 1t
was dctation if all fabricators in the
country were to say to the contract
ors: You can't have any steel unless
you will agree not to erect it union
shop'?" counsel for the committee
Queried.
"Yes, that would be dictation," re-
piled Mr.. Grace.
'4That is just what you are doing"
"Not that l know Of"
"But you are doing it in New York
and Philadelphia and trying to do it
around the country"
"That depends entirely on what effect
] shou expect it to have on our gen.
eral labor situation"
"You are members Of the Steel Fab
ricators' Association, are you not?"
That's the organization to which the
Bethlehem Bridge Corporation, one of
our subsidiaries. belongs"
Mr.. Untermyer here read a resolu-
tion adopted by the association, in
which the organization went on record
as being unreservedly in favor of the
open shop principle. This resolution,
"Ttat resolution is news to me, but
] believe in the policy" said Mr.. Grace
Eve were not following out the policy
Of any resolution We are acting
irrespective OF any other organiza-
tions"
Additional testimony was heard yes
terday by the committee from con-
tractors. showing that building costs
had been increased by the action Of
forcing builders to let their steel erec-
tion contracts to members Of the Ma
tional Iron Erectors' Association or the
Iron League Of this city.
Workers Charge Discrimination
Union structural steel workers also
told how they had been Disseminated
against by the American Bridge Com
pany. a subsidiary of the United States
Steel Corporation.
The book and records Of the National
Erectors' Association were taken over
by the committee for examination ant
process servers were sent out to fine
Captain Robert Foster, alleged head Of
the detective organization OF the asso
citation. who, Mr.. Untermyer says, ha.
disappeared.
-- Letters showing that Walter Drew
counsel for the National Erectors' As
sociation, attempted to prevent tn,
Fuller Construction Company from OBJ
tanning the contract for erection of th'
Rhode Island Hospital Trust Buldin,
at Providence, r. l., as a closed shol
job, were also offered in evidence
One Of the letters was to Frank A
Vanderlip, former president of tn
National City Bank, who is represente,