The New York herald. [volume] (New York, N.Y.) 1920-1924, 1920-12-01
DEFIANT BUILDERS
HIDE COST SECRETS
Continued from First Page.

pQna have been sitting Tor weeks wait
ing the ordeal of Mr. Untermyer's cross
examination. The spectators finally be-
came as much absorbed in watching Mr..
conboy as in listening to the witnesses
monotonous, II decline to answer on
the grounds"
Whether it was due to nervousness
or was merely a habit of his, Mr.. Con-
boy kept busy necessarily with his
hands rubbing his nose pulling his ears
and patting his thinning hair. What the
spectators were trying TO figure out was
whether the series OF gestures was in
any way connected with the II don't
knows" and II refuse to answers from
the witness stand.
This side line of observation was sug-
gested by Mr.. Untermyer. Mr.. Penny
had refused even to look at the pile OF
Supply Bureau books piled upon the
table. Then suddenly the witness
switched his position, stated he had re-
considered his statements and would
identify the books
Did you turn over these papers on a
signal?" Mr. Untermyer asked. and the
witness was mystifed by the question.
Interest I'm Murphy's Associate.
Interest centres around John A. Nc
Carthy in this desperate struggle of the
Supply Bureau to prevent it's trade Sc
crets becoming public. That is probably
because of Mr.. McCarthy's close friend
ship with prominent Tammany men, and
particularly with Charles F. Murphy.
Tammany leader.
AT the opening Of the morning ses-
sion, Mr.. Untermeyer said It had been
decided TO call Mr.. Penny with a view
employe OF the Bureau, OF the en-
barrassment of testifying. Mr.. Conboy
asked permission to present statement,
which was accepted. reviewing the legal
proceedings and putting in the record
Justice Hotchkiss's decision denying
the motion for stay. Mr.. Conboy
challenged the right OF the committee
to take physical possession of the books
Penny Is chairman OF the Builders As
ISOLATION.
Mr. Penny is a member o. he firm
OF Candee, Smith & Rowland, dealers
in lime. cement, brick and plaster. Mr..
Untermeyer asked the witness to open
the packages of books presented last
week when Miss O'Dea was called to
the stand. and merely list the docu-
ments for the record. Mr.. Penny re-
fused, asserting his constitutional right
not to answer.
Have you an idea of what crime It
would tend to convict you, IL you We're
simply to tell us what these books
are?" Mr.. Untermeyer asked.
mo, l haven't" the witness answered
Mr.. Untermeyer fired q score of 1ues-
tions. practically all of which the wit
ness refused to answer. He did know
who were some Of the members of the
bureau. He could not recall who Or
ganized the bureau.
Now look at the books and tell us
when 1t was organized
II refuse to look at them"
Declares Witness in Contempt.
al ask the chairman to instruct the
witness that he must answer" Mr. Tn
termyer said. and Senator Lockwood so
instructed the witness. Mr. Penny still
stood on his rights.
Nov, / ask the chairman to declare
the witness to be in contempt of this
committee" Mr.. Untermyer said
II do 80 declare the witness to be in
contempt" the Senator said.
Can't you see that you are blocking
the States investigation to find out
what organizations have been operating
TO fix prices and restrain trader" Mr..
Untermeyer asked.
suppose So GeIIlN answered.
The lawyer asked about the bureaus
Insurance fund and whether it was
manipulated to equalize sales. Penny
would not answer. About every half
dozen questions, Mr.. Untermeyer would
go through the routine Of having wit
ness adiudged in contempt.
with whom have you conferred about
the position you have taken here"
81 decline to answer on the ground
it might lead To-
well, want to know. because with
whomever 1t was they are equally guilty
with you"
~ refuse TO answer"
do you know what the punishment Is
for contempt"
81 do. / will take a chance"
You had rather go to jail than an
swer n question here about your or
ganization?"
Yes"
Again the witness Is in contempt
The score is going UP fast. 1t is either
eight or nine in one hour on the stand.
Then Mr.. Untermeyer caught Penny off
guard for about one minute.
He tainted the witness about des-
troying papers. Penny became indig-
nant. The lawyer asked about the cor
respondence and they had dispute
whether the leILeTS WCTt tff lHtit.
Finally Penny was prevailed upon to
identify the letter book. and In a fash
Mr.. Untermyer had offered It In EVIL
dence and opened the way for getting
all the documents before the committee.
The witness then reversed his position.
"In what respect do these cards OF
your association differ from the cards
put out by the Hettrick code?"
The witness said he knew nothing
about the Hettrick code.
Ibid you turn over these papers on a
signal?" the examiner asked. and the
witness said he did not. This question:
ing without answers went on for an
other half hour, Mr. Unteirnyer having
the witness declared in contempt every
time the list of queries became long
enough.
Mr. Conboy broke In TO renew his
fight against allowing tho committee to
take the papers.
John A. Philbrick, the next witness,
was Just about as communicative as
was Penny. Philbrlck is a member OF
Holmes a. philbrick and John A. Phil
brick e. Bro, both dealers in masous
supplies The witness admitted he had
presid ed at meetings OF the association.
Asked to tell about any meeting. the
witness said:
"I decline TO answer anything in con-
nection with the organization Of the