New-York tribune., 1920-11-21
Tho Without takine, q

MIR. Sands-I took note for that.
The Chairman-Oh, you took note
in that case?
Mr.. Sands-Yes, sir.
The Chairman-Did you pay this to
Mr.. Boiling in one sum?
Mr. Sands-1 do not think 50
think gave it to him in different
items We were very intimate. and if
had money at any time and he wanted
it would be willing to let him have il
Paid Back About $500
TIE Chairman-Did Mr.. Boiling ever
repay you tue 81 800 he borrowed from
you?
Mr.. Sands think he paid me back
about $500
The Chairman-He still owes you
the balance. then?
MI Sands Yes. sir.
The Chairman-If YOU had no note
or other evidence OF that loan, how are
you going to collect it il he refuses to
Mr. sands-Well, I do not ever ex
pect to collect it, didn't expect to
collect it when | loaned it. I thought
he would be entitled to that as his part
Of the commission.
The Chairman-You never told him
so, did you?
Mr.. Sands--I have never said any
thing TO him about it.
The Chairman No. You never told
Mr.. Boiling .ha. YOU loared him that
/ 81 500 because he had $3.50 coming to
/ him, and that you were letting him get
that 81 800 on account?
M Sands Go not know that told
him, but had that in mind
The Chairman Isn't it a fact that r.
Wilmer Boiling, at present treasurer of
the Shipping Board, never received q
single penny from you or from anybody
else TO help secure a contract for the
Downey Shipbuilding Company. or any
4 body else, while he was IN the employ
of the Shipping Board?
Mr. Sands-I don't think he did; no.
The Chairman you signed this
Mr.. sands Cinterposing)-No; never
sic44ol it.
Did Not Mention Downey
The Chairman-W " ell, you agreed 70
this affidavit and were prepared to sign
it until advised by your lawyer not to
do so, stating that Mr.. Boiling was
to receive S6,250 of the proceeds of the
discount of the note and that he be-
came worried and did not accept the
balance but you had in the mean time
advanced to him in different sums ST.
500. Those advances were loans and
had nothing to do with the Downey
contracts wasn't that so?
Mr.. Sands-In the final analysis it
was.
The Chairman-You never told him
when he asked for loan of money. u
viii let you have $500, or Whatever
sum it was. and when We settle up on
the Dowrey matter We viii take it
from what IS coming TO you?
Mr.. Sands ] don't think we ever hac
that conversation.
The Chairman-or anything like
that?
Mr.. Sands-No, sir
The Chairman There was nothing
said with reference 10 Mr. BOILING, by
him to you or by you to hi01, that he
was to receive any payment or com
mission IN connection with the DoWney
contract. was there
sir. Sands-Wcl, have outlined
THAI. In the original case there was
that he was to get his part when We
divided t. That WAS all
Had an understanding
The Chairman You said there was
IN understanding?
Mr. Sand Well, 7 VIII say so-tha'
there was an understanding, then.
The Chairman he say anything
to you that indicated to you that N,
Understood it?
Mr. Sands Well, my recollection j.
that he aid.
The Chairman Well, when, whcr,
and what was said?
Mr. Sands Well, cannot recall
That was a conversation that occurred
hut it was distinct .pctween us at a. the
time or among Us.
The chairman DoN't YOU know, Mr.
SANDS, that tais $4,000 payment, OF
those notes which werc paid to yol
We're in conNection with another trans
action entirely and had nothing 70 d'
With getting p contract with the Shin
ping Noard for iho Downcv Shiphuild
ing Corporati9N. Mr.. Sands ! canno
say tina nsS,lt.
The chairman But YOU did sa,
something clso to Mir. NcCann. didn'
you Mr.. Sands | think what ! sai'
10 Nr McCann have said here
THINK I have said the same thing here
The Chairman | am asking YOU nov
If you do not know that those note
which Mn Wallace Downcy paid T.
you and which YOU discounted, an,
which wa sent to these banks for col
lection were in reference to som
Other transaction entirely and ha
nothing e do with the contract wi;'
tine DowncV ShipbuildmS Corporation
> and -ho Shipping Board? MIR. Sands
Well. think they were for the con
, tract. and always thought so.
Witness Is Cross Examined
In the course Of cross-eXamina,io
Of Sands hy Representative Kelly, tn
following coioquy took place:
Mr. Kelley Then he (Bollng) real
did get the Sl,S0o out OF the moue
that YOU obtained from the discount c
p thesc notes.
Nh. sand The first proceeds; ye
y sir.
Mr.. Kelley The first note?
p Mr.. Sands-Yes. sir.
SIR Kelley You swear to that at
solutely. that Mr.. Boiling receive