New-York tribune., 1920-02-25
One of Ousted
Five on Stand
In Own Behalf
.Waldman, First of Accused
Men to Testify, Explains
Party Group in Assembly
Worked on Unit Rule
Rev. DIR. Thomas Testifes
New York Pastor Admits
Socialism Has Tendency
to Undermine Church
rron. a star Correspondent

ALBANY, Feb. 24.-The first of the
FIVE ousted Socialist Assemblymen to
appear before the Judiciary Commit
tee of the Assembly as a witness in
his own behalf took the stand late this
afternoon. He is Louis Waldman, who
has been member of the Assembly for
several years.
His testimony was cut short by the
adjournment for the day, and con-
cerned the activities Of the group Of
ten Socialists who were members of
the Assembly in 1918. Waldman said
that they adopted unit rule as a leg
islative group, which was several times
broken. because members of the group
could not agree. He said at that time
Republican members of the Assembly
several times conferred with them
The major part Of days proceed
ings was taken up with the testimony
Of the Rev. DR.. Norman Thomas, Of
New York City.
Pastor Escapes Grilling
Dr. Thomas, q graduate of Princeton
and OF the Union Theological Seminary
made profound impression on up
state Legislators when, at the very be-
ginning of his testimony, he recited
MS work as a minister, which began
with his appointment as assistant
pastor of the fashionable Brick Presby-
torian Church, of which the Rev. DR..
Henry van Dyke was for many years
the guiding spirit
The big audience listened intentlv 10
DR.. Thomas's testimony and when it
came to cross-e2amination. the friendly
spirit of the spectators was reflected in
the questions put to him by Martin
Conboy and Archibald Z. Stevenson. of
counsel to the prosecution. He was the
hrst witness on either side to escape a
grlling.
Undermines Church Influence
heh asked to answer one Of the
charges made in Speaker Sweets in
d1ctment of the five Socialists, that the
SOCIALISTS party undermines the influ-
ence of the church, the witness said:
i hlnk that 1T probably does tend to
undermine the influence of the church.
II you understand the church in a GER
tain sense and in a certain way. it does
not undermine the influence of what
ought to be dear to the church, think
IT can be counted on generally that
Socialists, and great many people not
SOCIALISTS, are antagonistic to the
church. ! have no fear that the church
that tries to work for the PRINCIPLES
OF a brotherhood and truth will get
along quite admirably with the Social
lists"
The extreme idealism of the witness
was brought out by Archibald +. Ste
Nenson, who, after having him tell of
the numerous pacfist societies he was
connected with during the war, asked
this question:
Well, then, do you understand that
# this country had been invaded by a
foreign enemy you would still adhere to
Your doctrine of non-resistanca?
Il am SO far los to the ordiarv con-
vlctions of men," replied DIR Thomas
that If this country were invaded by
foreign enemy | believe the ultimate
victory could be won by policy of
passive resistance more surely, with
less loss of life, with less arusing of
hatred, than by armed resistance"
The other witness Of the day was AL
eernon Lee, who, in answer to ques-
tons put to him by Morris Hillquit,
said that the Socialist party did not
expect to accomplish it's proposed
changes by violence, and does not suffer
any such expression among it's mem
bers