New-York tribune., 1920-11-24
before the Lockwood housing irvesti-

before the Lockwood housing investi-
eating commiStee.
"AlI information you may dissent
nate in connection herewith, if
published, is iibelous. | want to give
yor this notice that l will hold You
criminally and civiliy responsible and
] will submit the matter within forty
eight hours to grand jury.
"GROVER A. WHALEN,
Commissioner of Plantseand Struc-
lures"
Whalen said on the stand that the
dumping of the ashes on che courthouse
site was good thing for the city and
that the hole was a proper dumping
ground when the health Of the city was
concerned. There was so much snow on
the ground in 1918, he said, tha. ashes
could not be taken to Long Island or
other places.
''But there wasn't any snow on the
ground in July, when the practice was
still going on commented Mr.. Inter
lmyer.
Whalen said he came into his share
of the Holland company through his
fathers death fourteen years ago, but
that he gave it away in August Of 1917
because, he asserted, it was unprofit-
able and he was going into the Mayor
atty campaign. He denied having any
interest in the company after he gave
up his share or that he had anything
to do with granting permission to the
company to dump ashes in the excava-
ton.
Smith in Mayors Chair
Mayor Hylan was at Palm Beach and
Governor Smith, then President of the
Board of Aldermen, was acting Mayor
when the practice began, he said.
aAp1 wan would lita to ohoyo +b; n
off on the Governor" asked Mr. Tn
termyer.
No. nothing of the kind"
and you weren't interested in this
thing bit ."
mot bit. Not bit. That's clear
English | want you te know you are
not going to besmirch my character" "
"I'm not trying TO besmirch your
character. I'm asking you questions
and you'd better answer them"
"Ill answer, but don't you insinu-
ate'
Later Mr.. Untermyer suggested that
Whalen be a little less impertinent.
II can't help it, You lead me to it,"
replied Whalen.
Whalen explained that the Holland
company was copartnership and that
he had nothing in writing to show his
severance of partnership relations. He
SI4U ne gave up mrs snare IN tHS COiu-
p2ny by q verbal mutual agreement.
He added that the company's contract
with the city could have been revoked
With about two days notice.
Mr.. Untermyer Laughs
Mr.. Untermyer laughed at this, say
ing; Now let's see what kind of busi-
pany got s55 day from the city and
$4,000 q year from the street railway
company Tor clearing ashes. and that
despite rising costs of labor. trucks.
machinery and material, the contract
was not changed over period OF
twenty-five years"
That's right" commented Whalen.
Whalen said that he knew about the
dumping of the ashes into the excava-
ton at the time the practice started
DO you mean to say that they would
dump it and you being there with the
Mayor away. as his secretary, seeing it
done, knowing it.donc, you said nothing
about it -
trucks replied Whalen.
If they had only FIVE trucks"
queried MIR Untermyer, to do all this
job the testimony is that they put
30 900 cubic yards there-that would
have taken a good many moaths with
five trucks, and the snow did not stay
fourteen inches high during ali that
time did it?"
No"
Terms of the Contract
What did the contract with the city
provide? Surely it did not provide
that the ashes be taken from one place
NO"
ut provided for their being taken
away?'
yes"
"And dumped somewhere where tho
city would no. have to dump them
again?' -
NO
80 the contractor could have taken
hem from Broadway and dumped them
IN West Street, is that the idea ~
THAT may be your idea"
'Wasn't that yours ~
Where had the Holland Company
been dumping their ashes .hefore?"
"Along the East and North rivers"
Didn't the contracts provide that
5hey should dump their ashes out at
sea-"
mo, ] am positive Of that"
Whalcn Makes Objection
Mr.. Whalen then objected to "un-
necessary questions, to which MIR. Un-
termyer replied:
"Oh, that's all right. Mr.. Whalen,
The city is paying for your time. You
were here for previous sessions and
YOU were not subpoenaed either"
II believed in the honesty of the
Mayor and wanted TO help him if I
could" responded Whalen.
"And the city was paying for your
time then,' commented Untermyer.
And you think this is clean trane-
action?" asked counsel for the com
mittee, resuming examination.
absolutely, and l defy you to prove
anything else"
Whalen was preceded on the stand
by Commissioner Hirshfield. 1t was
through his testimony and that of some
others associated with the Even Street
police court back in 1904 that Unter-
myer tried to attack a portion of the
Mayors testimony touching on the lat
ter's acquaintance with Hettrick.
The Mayor had declared that he had
never heard of Hettrick until the time
of the limestone letter of February 8
wherein the substitution of limestone
for terra Gotta in schoolhouse con-
struction was urged. Mr.. Untermyer
attempted to show that the Mayor
Hirshfeld and Hettrick were acQuaint-
I'd long before that time.
Knew Hylan in 1904