The sun. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1916-1920, 1919-10-03
JUDGE GARY SAYS HE
WON'T ARBITRATE



not In principle, we agreed 70 collec-
tive bargaining through committees OF
our men. We don't object to the men
organizing; Anybody that likes can form
union or belong to one"
Mr. Fitzpatrick said the unions were
not seeking to get all the men into the
unions and to enforce the closed shop
rule" said Senator Jones IN. M.
You seem to agree. at any rate you
don't object, to the unions as such you
arc willing that anybody who likes may
belong to a union, and they donx insist
that everybody must belong or the shop
be made a closed one"
ITS a question of facts" was the re-
ply. 1.-THE unions will get in all the en-
ployees they can. II Is not true that
they seek to get only representation OF
them. Whenever they have the power
they will compel the owners to contract
with the unions, as they do all over the
world, wherever 1t Is In their power.
Then the non-union men cannot work ex-
cept through the union
II wish you gentlemen would learn
the facts, In this and other countries,
where the unions have claimed that
those not members can still get employ
ment In union establishments. If that
is true anywhere 1t is a new plan that
j have not known of The shop that is
partly union and partly non-union will
coon. be made a closed shop, in their
opinion That is the intention"
you have no objection to men be-
longing to the union" said Senator
Jones, "by which l assume that you
mean that a proportion of them, but
not all, may belong to the union?''
Affiliations Not Questioned.
"No, we do not question whether mer
belong to the union. We don't know
the number who belong except as the
men have said that they did not want
TO strike and wanted to work. We dc
not ask who belongs. i couldn't ever
have told you whether the witnesses
from among our employees who appeared
here yesterday were union men or not
you recognize the right to organize
and you have no objection to your mer
belonging to unions, but you refuse tc
meet and negotiate with the representa-
tives OF unions OF what use. then, II
the union?" asked Senator Walsh.
eff 10 per cent of the men could join
the union and secure contract with the
employer dealing with the labor of that
10 per cent, that minority would have
the right to force the remaining 80 per
cent. to join. That Is the inevitable
result"
''But why should you not say to the
leaders of this 10 per cent. of union men
You represent only 10 per cent. l want
the 30 per cent. also to be represented.
pursued Senator Walsh.
IT said in my letter that I didn't
think the committee represented OUT
men. With ordinary intelligence, this
foreman, II the men came to him say
ing that they did not belong to the
union, would be justified in believing
that they didn't"
union If 80 per cent. of the men were
in 1t? You have said that you woui I
not meet Mr.. Gompers. Do you refuse
because he represents a minority or be
cause those he represents are organized
1t must be one thing or the other"
Closed shop Is Big Question.
IT refuse to substitute the closed for
the open shop" replied Judge Gary.
"And II 80 per cent Of the men be-
longed to the union. you would not ne
gotiate with them?"
IT have not said that" rejoined Judge
Gary quickly. That case has not beer
presented to me-"
.swin you confer with the representa-.
tives OF organized labor to settle this
strike ?'' demanded Senator Walsh.
Il will not" replied Judge Gary
shortly.
Twill you arbitrate the matter? I
not. why not? You say they represen
a minority. They say they do not 1
you would agree to arbitrate this poin
would you not stand better before thu
country? II it proves that they hav
a large number OF members-if it should
develop that they have over so per cent
of the men--would you confer witt
them?"
mo. am not called upon to answs
what 7 would do in different circum
stances than those actually existing
/ am sorry, Senator, that 1t is not pos
sible for me to meet these men. I dis
like to disagree with those people VIII
think 1 should meet them.
1--WE stand squarely on the issue o
the open or the closed shop. and W
must decide on the facts as they ap
pear to us. At present there are man,
things to consider. The public inter
est, 1 agree. Is the highest considera
ton,
"At present according to my informa
ton, the union labor leaders, or som
of them, acting under existing circum
stances, are utilizing small minorit
in order to secure control over the inter
ests Of the majority Of the worker
and or the/employers.
"But they say that they do repre-
sent a majority. Why not arbitrat
whether they do or do not represen
a majority? Will you meet the repre-
septatives OF labor under any circum
stancesf Yes or MOI"
VIII Not Answer eyes or No."
II will not answer yes or no." reptile
T,1Apa Gary hT was interruDted 4
answering your former question. TIL
rest of my answer Is that If the union
had forcibly got control thatwould hav
meant the closed shop.
SAT this time conditions in this cour
try are different from any heretofor
7 doubt II many of our people realiz
the danger that confronts W OF forcibl
control of our industries. I am willin
TO meet our men but not to deal wit
outsiders"
.sYou decline because you consider
would be a step toward the close
shop?' asked Senator Walsh.
81 cannot answer that in the affirms
tive"
'But you said it would be a step
the closed shop" insisted Mr.. Walsh.
'srhese men were outsiders" declare
Judge Gary. "Only a minority were
the union. The majority OF our me
were perfectly satisfied and happy wit
their conditions, and did not want
have the union leaders represent them
'T have a high opinion of you, Juds
Gary, and of your ability sincerity ar
franl1ness," declared Mr.. Walsh. "B'
wouldn't it have avoided this strike ha
you been willing TO meet the men?
that case you could have said that yC
had seen them, that you had learnt
that they represented only a minorit