The sun. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1916-1920, 1919-08-20

amendment. As l understand 1t. no
reservation that we could make IN the
resolution of ratification would be eff
fective to strike out the Shartung pro-
vision. 1t must be cured, II It is cured.
by a straight out and on amendment.
striking that from the treaty. That OF
course would necessitate the resubmis-
sion Of the treaty to the signatories who
have already signed It
Changes in Draft.
Now you state later on that every
suggestion of the United States was ac-
| cepted, that is after you went back.
after you had your conference with US
last March. and having obtained our
views as to the necessity for certain
changes in the first draft of the COW
enant, you state (reading):
The views of the United States with
regard to the questions I have mentioned
had, IN fact already been accepted by
the commission, and there was supposed
to be nothing inconsistent with them In
the draft of the covenant first adopted"
And emitting a few lines which do not
apply to that you say Treadlng1 there
was absolutely no doubt as to, the mean
ing of any one of the resulting provi-
sions of the covenant in the minds of
those who participated in drafting them.
and I respectfully submit that there Is
nothing vague or doubtful in their word
| ing. OF course. that Is your opinion. II
may say so.
! The President-Yes, sir.
Senator Brandegee-But you are IA
miliar with the statements, l have no
doubt. that ex-senator Root. Chief Jus
tice Hughes, Mr.. Taft and other able
| lawyers Of the country have made with
respect to the necessity for reservations
II we are to ratify the treaty, are you
not?
The President-Yes. sir.
Senator Brandegee-That is, you ad-
nit that there are grave doubts of the
| abiest lawyers of the country as to the
| necessity for reservations or the alter
native between reservations and ratify-
ing the whole treaty as II is expressed
| m the vernacular without the dotting OF
an "i" or the crossing OF a Il?
The PRESIDENT admit that there are
those difficulties In a great many minds.
Senator Brandegee-Now, of course. II
is rtue, is II not that II difficulties arise
as to the construction of any provision
Of the treaty after we have passed from
the scene what we thought the pro-
vision of the treaty or OF the covenant
meant will not be very powerful In the
construction that may be placed upon II
by those who then have to determine
what II means, Will II?
The President-The vote Of the United
States will be essential.
Senator Brandesee-I do rot near
that. The fact that you think now
that everything in the treaty is plain
and that there is no doubt about the
meaning of any provisions, and the fact
that I think there is grave doubt about
many OF the provisions. will not serious
~ affect the opinion Of the council oil
of the arbitrator that finally passes
upon the true meaning OF the treaty
when dispute arises?
The President-No, Senator; but ths
plain wording OF the treaty will have a
great deal TO do. and the meaning OF
the wording Is plain.
| Senator Brandegee-Thati is simply an
other way of stating. 10 II not, that yor
are clear in your opinion that the pro
visions OF the treaty are plain? But
am suggesting that there will be dis
pute between nations as to what ths
treaty means after we have passed
from the scene.
The President-No, sir 1t is a ques
ton of being confident OF what Ian
guage means, not confident OF an opin'
ion.
Treaty Meaning Sought.
Senator Brandegee-I mean, we de
rive our opinions as to the meanings o.
the treaty from the language OF th'
treaty, do we not?
The President-Yes
Senator Brandegee-Now, they woulC
derive their construction OF what tht
treaty means from the language OF II
we not being there?
The President-Yes
Senator Brandegee--So that what we
think about It now will not determine n
an international court or before an ar
bitrator twenty years hence in case OF &
dispute between two nations as to thu
meaning OF the treaty?
The President-Certainly not ; but thu
language will.
Senator Brandegee-Of course, the.
will have the language befors them
but the language which determines Il II
now In dispute between you and certain
lawyers OF the country and certain
Senators as to it's meaning. Now, wha
provision is there In the treaty for tn
determination OF dispute as TO tn,
Interpretation OF a clause OF the treat,
u such dispute arises?
The President--The covenant state
that there are certain questions whicl
are acknowledged as being so sultabl,
for submission to arbitration. One o
those is the meaning OF the treaty.
Senator Brandegee-What does tn
: treaty provide about that?
The President-You have It there, sir
Senator Brandegee-Yes, sir. | won
dered IL you remembered It,
The PRESIDENT think I do So Bu
you have the language.
Senator Brandegee-Yes. Article MI
. OF the league provides (reading) 9TH
members OF the league agree that
, there should arise between them an,
dispute likely to lead to a rupture the!
/ will submit the matter either to arbitra
ton or TO inquiry by the council. an,
! they agree in no case to resort to wa
: until three months after the award b,
, the arbitrators or the report OF tn
council"
That is. IL there is a dispute, as
construe this, between members of tn
} league as to the meaning OF the cove
nant or any article thereof Il shall b
referred TO the arbiratorsl