The sun., 1919-07-18
SAYS A. FL. CALLS
BOLSHEVISM A JOKE
Holland Admits Reds Rule
Some Unions, but Thinks
Federation Is Safe.
ACCUSES JAMES j. BAGLEY
Says Pressmen's Agent Urges
RevolutiOn-25,000 Of 90O,-
600 Unionists Extremists.

Bo,shevism is Il Joke in the opinion Of
a majority of the organizations In the
American Federation Of Labor, accord
ing to James p. Holland. president OF
the state Federation OF Labor. who tes-
tilted yesterday berfore the Lusk lesis-
lative committee In City Hall.
In spite OF the fact that he had told
the committee that the radicals had sue
ceeded In capturing some of the organi-
nations In the federation and making
much Roadway on others. they never
would get control, he said. This was
because the Socialist and Bolshevik
leaders were intellectually rather than
workers.
Ultra radicalism fed on notoriety. the
witness declared. and was increased by
some people who want to get notoriety
In the public press"
Some day there would be a labor party.
Mr.. Holland declared, but II would not
be controlled by either the Socialists or
the Bolshevki. When Assemblynlan
McEllieott tried to get the witness to
acknowledge that the Republican and
Democratic parties had done we'll by
labor in the Leg stature in the last ten
years he smiled and replied that 1t was
political question which he wonld
rather answer ~ the next campaign.
Accuses Prcssmen's Argent.
Mr.. Holland said there had been con-
siderable violent talk in the meetings OF
the Central Federated Union in this city.
and that James J. BaBley, president OF
Local 20 Of the International Pressmen's
Union. had openly advocated sabotage
end tho overthrow OF the Government.
Has he ever expressed himself as
favoring the Soviet form of govern
ment?' asked Archibald e. Stevenson.
associate counsel. who conducted the ex-
animation.
Tie would favor any form Of govern
ment that would overthrow the United
States Government. and has openly
stated So" was the reply.
Has It been brought to your attention
that any appreciate number Of radical
leaders have been advocating sabotage
Yes: Mr.. Bagiey preached that on the
floor Of the Central Federated Union.
not alone to break up the Government
but to smash UP the printing presses.
We were amazed that the United States
with II. This can be found in the rec
ords of the Central Federated Union"
A little later Assistant District Attor-
ney Rorke returned 20 the Bagley sub
ject and Mr. Holland said
"He Is the business agent OF the press
men Of this country. They have n couple
Of Trishmen AS bad as the rest"
Have you ever heard him advocate
the overthrow of the Government by
force OF arms"
Yes. printed right in the minutes
that have been sent broadcast In this
State
How long ago was the last time you
heard him TALK"
1.-THE last time was before the Legis-
lature took vote on the dry question.
They said: IF they take away our
beer, we will take away the Govern
ment"
According to letters found 1T the
headquarters OF the ]. w. W.. recently
raided. that body Is attempting TO
organize transportation workers all over
the world in order that they may be
able to paralyze industry at will In
these documents. which were read into
the Lusk committee record In the morn
ing there are frequent illusions to
revolutions and one of them refers to
what they call the colloquially "One Big
Union" as the only revolutionary union
Of its kind. It was evident that the
T. w. W. were contemplating force and
violence in carrying out their aims
through this union.
II appeared from the documents that
steps are being taken to organize the
transportation workers in South Amer
lea, Spain, Mexico. Ireland and other
countries. Emissaries from tho /. w. w
here have been sent out to further the
movement.
Referring TO the question OF sabotage
as advocated In discussions at the Cen
, trail Federated Union. Mr. Stevenson
asked Mr.. Holland whether ne had ever
\ heard any of the leaders In this institu.
& ton, or their sympathizers, call for a
I seizure OF the Government by the work.
ing class.
81 have" he replied.
DO they take particular pains TO In.
dicate that that should be done by the
process OF the voter" Mr.. Stevenson
asked.
Believe I'm Revolution.
\ mo. they do not. they believe in tn,
process OF revolution. This has beer
preached on the floor OF the centra
'And when they have spoken abou
revolution they have not taken pains L
explain that this Is TO be peaceful
reVolution1"
NO they claim that wherever there 4,
. revolution somebody loses blood ant
they believe the blood should come from
the capitalist class-is the term tha
they use"
"And have you ever heard any on,
express dissemination TO establish a die
tatorahip of the proletnriatr'
That has been preached and IL beinJ
preached every day as far as some o
the radical organizations are concerned
They not only preach a dictatorship o
the Government but also n DICTATORSHIP
Of the labor movement; that the labo
movement as now being conducted b,
the American Federation OF Labor ant
led by Samuel Gompers was not bein,
led in a proper way by him or any OF hi
heutenants who may be following q
trying to follow In his footsteps"
The method OF the radicals, Mr.. Hol
LAND said. had been to send ag1tators {,
Industrial centres whenever a Legitimate
strike had been called. with the idea o
preaching Bedition and the overthrow o
the Government Some OF the regula
unions have broken away from the Amer
lean Federation at such times, but hav
seen the folly OF their ways and hav
come back
II have advised TO let the agitator
In" said Mr.. Holland. listen to VIVA
they have to say and then tell them II
no uncertain language where they Mt"
Most OF the agitators were not labor
man tho vEifnAaa dAclared