The sun., 1919-08-20


subject, and nobody has any doubt al
to what was agreed upon. '
The Chairman--I asked the question
because seemed to me a matter OF
| great Importance.
The President-Yes, It is.
The Chairman-As a matter of self.
protection, 1t seemed on the face Of II
| that the treaty would give the 1--WE prin-
cipal allied and associated Powers the
! authority to maka such disposition as
they saw fit of those islands. but ]
| did not know whether the secret treaty
would thwart that purpose. have
no further questions to ask, Mr.. Presi-
| dent.
At this point Senator Borah took ur
| the questioning and brought from the
President that the United States alone
! II 1t desired to withdraw from the league
would pass on the question of whether
| or not II had fulfilled its obligations
| and was entitled to withdraw. Its own
conscience would decide. the President
said, and other nations would be power
| less to say otherwise.
The conversation follows:
Senator Borah--Mr. President, IL nc
| one else desires to ask question I want
/
ct little clearer information with ref
erence to the withdrawal clause in the
| league covenant Who passes upon the
question of the fulfilment Of our inter-
NATIONAL obligations, upon the question
whether nation has fulfilled its inter-
national obligations?
Withdrawal Clause Deemed.
| The PARLIAMENTARY.
Senator Borah-Does the council have
| anything to say about Il?
The Fredericksburg whatever.
Senator Borah--Then II a country
should give notice OF withdrawal il
would be the sole Judge OF whether, OF
not it had fulfilled its international OBJ
| legations. its covenants to the league.
The President-That is as / under.
| stand 1t. The only restraining influence
would be the public opinion Of the world
Senator Borah-Precisely. but II the
United States should conceive that II
had fulfilled its obligations that ques-
ton could not be referred to the council
in any way. or the council could not be
called itno action?
The President-No.
Senator Borah-Then. as understand.
| when the notice is given the right to
withdraw Is unconditional?
The Presldent-Well, when the notice
is given 1t is conditional on the faith OF
! the conscience Of the Withdrawing ma
| ton at the close of the two year period.
Senator Borah-Precisely; but It is
unconditional so far as the legal right
| or the moral right Is concerned?
The President-That Is my interpreta-
| ton.
| Senator Borah-There is no moral OBJ
| legation on the part Of the United States
| to observe any suggestion made by the
council?
| The President-oh, no.
| Senator Borah--With reference 10
withdrawing7
The President-There might be a
moral obligation II that suggestion had
weight. Senator, but there is no other
obligation.
| Senator Borah-Any moral obligation
which the United States would feel would
| be one arising from its own sense OF
obligation?
Tho Presldent-oh. certainly.
! Senator Borah-And not by reason of
! any suggestion by the council?
| The Presldent-Certainiy.
Senator Borah-Then the idea which
has prevailed in some quarters that the
council would pass upon such obligations
Is an erroneous one from your stand
point?
The President-Yes. entirely.
1
View Held by Commission.
Senator Borah-As I understand. OF
course, you are expressing the view
| which was entertained by the commits
sion which drew the league?
| The Presiden<-I am confident that
| that was the view. That view was not
| formulated, You understand. but l am
| confident that that was the view.
1 Senator M0Cnnhar-Mav O
question right here? Would there be
any objection, then. to reservation de-
4 claring that to be the understanding of
the force Of this section2
| The President-Senator, as indicated
| at the opening OF our conference, this Is
| my Judgment about that: Only we can
interpret a moral obligation. The legal
| obligation can be enforced by such ma
| chinery as there is to enforce IL. We
are therefore at liberty to interpret the
sense in which we undertake a moral
| obligation. What I feel very earnestly
| is that 1t would be mistake to en-
body that Interpretation in the resolu-
ton of ratification, because then it would
be necessary for other governments to
| act upon 1t.
Senator McCumber-If they all I'M
| derstood at the time that this was
| the understanding and the construction
treaty would II be necessary for them
| to act on 1t again?
The President think it would, Sen
ator,
Senator McCumber-Could they not
merely accept 1t by acquiescence?
The President-My experience as a
lawyer was not very long. but that ex-
perience would teach me that the Ian
| guage of a contract Is always part OF
the debatable matter, and / can testify
that in our discussions in the commits
sion on the League of Nations We did
not discuss ideas half as much as we
discussed phraseology.
Senator McCumber-But suppose. Mr.,
President that we should make a dec
laration of that kind which would be in
entire accordance with your view of the
understanding of all the nations, and
| without saying anything the nations