davidaulloa/AmericanStories huggingface dataset:
The Washington times., 1919-08-19
National Conscience Is
Only League Obligation

Senator Borah-As to the question
OF legal obligation. That Is all I de-
sire to ask at present.
Senator Harding-Right there, Mr..
President, il there is nothing more
than a moral obligation on the part
of any member Of the league. what
avails Articles Y and XI?
The President-Why, Senator. it is
surprising that that question should
be asked. II we undertake an obli-
cation, we are bound in the most
solemn way to carry it out.
Senator Harding-If you believe
there is nothing more to this than a
moral obligation, any nation will as
sumo a moral obligation on its own
account Is IL a moral obligation?
The point 1 am trying to get at is
this: Suppose something arises af-
fecting the peace and the world, and
the council takes steps. as provided
here to conserve or preserve. and an
nounces its decision: and every ma
tion in the league takes advantage Of
the construction that you place upon
these articles and says, We'll, this is
only a moral obligation, and we as
sumo that the nation involved does
not deserve our participation or pro-
The Washington times., 1919-08-19

lection, then the whole thing
amounts to nothing but an express
sion OF the league council.
The President-There is a national
good conscience in such a matter. I
should think that was one Of the
most serious things that could pos
sibly happen. When 1 speak Of legal
obligation, 1 mean one that SPECIFIC
ally binds you to do a particular
thing undep certain sanctions. That
Is a legal obligation. Now a moral
obligation is OF course superior TO a
legal obligation, and II I may say
so, has a greater binding force.
Only there always remains in the
moral obligation the right to exercise
ones judgment as TO whether II is
indeed incumbent upon one in those
circumstances to do that thing. In
every moral obligation there is an
element of judgment: in a legal OBJ
legation there is no element Of judg-
ment.
Senator Johnson-But. Mr.. Presf-
dent when the moral obligation is
undoubted, II will impel action more
readily than a legal obligation.
The President-If IL is undoubted.
yes; but that involves the circum-
stances of the particular case, Sena-
tor.
Senator Johnson-Yes; necessarily.
The Washington times., 1919-08-19
Can't Change Treaty NOW
Without German Consent

Senator Knox-Where there are
two branches of the legislative de-
partment-an upper and a lower
branch-do you know whether 1t is
being submitted to both?
The PRESIDENT think not, sir.
an not certain about that, but my
memory is il is not.
Senator Fall-Mr President, the
idea has struck me, and l have en-
tertained the view, since reading the
treaty and the league, that Germany,
having signed the treaty, but not be-
ing yet a member of the league, any
reservations which we might make
here would be met by Germany's
either joining the league or refusing
TO join the league. 1t would not be
submitted to her at all now, because
she is not a member of the league
You catch the point?
The President-Yes. differ with
you there. Senator. One of the rea-
sons for putting the League in the
Treaty was that Germany was not
going to be admitted to the League
Immediately. and we felt that it was
very necessary that we should get her
acknowledgement-acceptance of the
League as an international authority,
partly because we were excluding her,
so that she would thereafter have no
ground for questioning such authority
as the League might exercise under
its covenants.
Senator Fall-PreciseIy.
The President-Thereforo ] think IL
would be necessary for her to ac-
quiesce in a league, the powers OF
The Washington times., 1919-08-19
Obligation Might
Force Action in Balkans

Senator Borah-Mr. President, does
the special alliance treaty with
France which has been submitted to
US rest upon any other basis as to
legal and moral obligation than that
OF Article 10 and Article II. which
you have just described?
The President-NO, sir
Senator Borah-That is also, as you
understand il, simply our moral OBJ
legation which we enter into with
France?
The President-Yes.
Senator Williams-AIl international
obligations are moral ones.
Senator Pittman-There is one
thing l do not understand about SEN
ator Borah's question. He has stated
that he gathers from what you said
that it all rests with our representa-
tive on the council. Even IL our repre-
sentative on the council advises as
a member OF the council, and the
council is unanimous, is II not then
still up to Congress either to accept
or reject that advice?
The President-Oh, yes: but I un-
derstood the Senator to mean that
it would be dependent on our repre-
sentative.
Senator Johnson Of California-May
I take the example that was just sug-
gested concerning the Balkan States
and a possible attack upon the new
territories Of Italy. Assuming that
that is a case OF external aggression
by the Balkan States concerning the
new territory that Italy has acquired
by the peace treaty upon US rests
compelling moral obligation to do our
part in preventing that, does there
not?
The PTesident-Yes.
Senator Johnson Of CalifOrnia-And
that compelling moral obligation
would require US to use such means as
would seem appropriate, either eco
nomic or moral? Is that not correct!
The President-Deemed appropriate
The Washington times., 1919-08-19
Obligation Moral, But
As Binding As If Legal

Senator Harding-In answering
Senator Knox a moment ago you
spoke of compelling moral obligation
Would you think that any less bind.
ing than a specific legal obligation?
The President-NOt less binding
but operative in a different way be-
cause of the element of judgment.
Senator Harding-But not less
likely to involve us in armed partici.
patton.
The President-In trihing matters
very much less likely.
Senator Harding-To clear my slow
mind, let me take a specific case
Suppose the allotted territory which
comes under the control OF Italy
should in some way be assaiIed from
the Balkan States and the Council OF
the League should Immediately look
upon that as a threat of war involv-
ing other nations and should say that
the nations Of the League should i'm
mediately contribute an armed force
to stop that war or to bring the at
tacking nation to terms, would we be
a perfdious people, if / may use that
term, would we violate our obliga-
tions il we failed to participate in the
defense of Italy?
The President-We would be our
own judges as to whether we were
obliged in those circumstances TO
act in that way or not.
Senator Hitchcock-In such a case
the council would only act unani-
mously and our representative on the
council, Of course, would have to con-
cur In any advice given.
The President-Certain we would
always in such case advise ourselves.
Senator Williams-But II in such
case, Mr.. President, we concluded that
the case provided for and prescribed
had arisen and that the extraneous
attack existed and that it fell within
the terms OF the treaty, then we
would be untrue if we did not keep
our word?
The President-Certainly
Senator Borah-In other words.
then that raises the question wheth-
er the decision should come from the
Congress of the United States or from
one individual who sits on the coun-
Gil.
Senator Williams-No, il does not:
it merely provides that when the
council acts in accordance with the
prescribed terms and we see that It
has acted. then Congress will, as a
matter of faith keeping, act itself,
and IL Congress does not Congress
will do a dishonorable thing.
Senator Borah-PreciseIy so: so
that the matter gets back to the
point where one individual has bound
Congress.
Senator Hitchcock hope my
question to the President will not be
interpreted in that way. My ques-
tion to the President was whether
the matter would even come before
this country as the advice of the
council until the American represen-
tatives had concurred with the other
eight members of the council, and
after he had Concurred it would then
be up to Congress to decide.
The President-You are quite right,
Senator. And let me suggest that I
find nothing was more clearly in the
of the men who were
these very important mat
ters than that most Of the nations
concerned had popular governments.
They were all the time aware Of the
The Washington times., 1919-08-19
Did Not Know of Secret
Treaties Until at Paris

Of understandings were disclosed =
me for the first time then
Senator Borah-Then we had NJ
knowledge Of these secret treatiel
so far as our Government was con
cerned until you reached Parts?
The President-Not unless therS
was information at the State Depart
ment Of which knew nothing.
Senator Borah-Do you know WhsE
these secret treaties between Japan
Great Britain and other cOuntriee
were first made known to China? =
The President-No sir; do not
remember a meeting OF what wal
popularly called the Council Of Ten
after our reaching Paris, In which
il was first suggested that all thest
Understandings should be laid upoE
the table OF the conference. Tha'
was some time after we reached
there, and I do not know whether
that was China's first knowledge o.
these matters or not.
Senator Borah-Would IL be proper
for me to ask II Great Britain ant
France insisted upon maintaining
Continued on Page SiK.O
The Washington times., 1919-08-19
i. S. Has POWer to Decide
Upon ReparatiOn Claim

United States should claim her pro-
portion Of the reparation.
The President-That the commits
sion would have to do it? No, we de
eide whether we claim it or not
Senator McCumber-That is what ]
want to make clear. l think the Ques-
lion was asked II the commission was
to decide that. and l thought your
answer said yes. That is the reason
l asked the questions.
The President-The claim would
have to come from US OF course.
Senator McCumber-It would have
to be through an act Of Congress-
would il not?
The President would have to be
instructed about that, Senator: | do
not know.
Senator McCumber-Whate right
the United States would receive under
the treaty for reparation or indem-
nifty is one that runs to the United
States, and therefore to divest our
selves Of that right would require
an act OF Congress.
The President-To divest ourselves
OF it? l suppose so.
Senator Knox-In the question Of
the Japanese indemnity, that was
done by a joint resolution.
Senator hcCumber-I thought he
said II would have TO be decided by
the constituted authority.
Senator KnOX-I did not under
stand that he said that
Senator Swanson understand
that the reparation is to be decided
upon a representation made by the
Associated Powers. 1t would seem
that the President under that agree
ment with France, Great Britain and
other nations would have to submit it
to the Senate for ratification. and the
agreement would have 10 be report
ed
The Washington times., 1919-08-19
Wants Congress to Keep
Present Powers Free
CONTINUED from Fourth Page.l

, time to consummate II. II these con-
structions have already been placed
upon it in their conversations with
you.
The President-But an exchange
of notes is quite a different matter
from having it embodied in the reso-
luton of ratification.
Senator Knox-If we embody in
our resolution of ratification a state
ment that we understand section 10
or section Is or section something
else in a particular sense. and this
Government, through its foreign ue-
partment, transmits the proposed
form of ratification to the chancel-
Iors Of the other nations that are
concerned in this treaty, and If those
interpretations are the same as you
have agreed upon with them in your
conversations, 1 do not see how we
would need anything more than a
mere reply to that effect.
The President-It would need con-
firmation.
Senator Knox-Yes, it would need
confirmation in that sense.
The President-My judgment is that
the embodying of that in the terms
Of the resolution Of ratification would
probation, but in the very phraseology
of the Interpretation, because it would
form a part of the contract.
Senator Knox-It might with us,
because we have so much machinery
for dealing with treaties, but in other
countries where il is much more sim
pie, 1 should think il would not be.
The President-It is simple legal
ly, Senator; but, for example, this
treaty has been submitted to legisla-
lures to which the government was
not. by law, obliged to submit it, and
it is everywhere being treated as a
legislative matteT-I mean, so far as
the ratification is concerned.
Senator Knox-You mean in coun-
tries where, under their constitu-
tions. there are provisions that trea-
ties ordinarily are not submitted to
the legislative branch of the govern
ment this treaty is being so submit
ted?
The President-So I understand.
The Washington times., 1919-08-19
BALTIMORE FINANCIER DEAD.

BALTIMORE. Aug. 1s.-Edward
Austin Jenkins. seventy-eight years
old, one of Baltimore's oldest finan
ciers and a director Of the Eutaw
Savings Bank. Western National Bank
and the United States Fidelity and
Guaranty Company, is dead today at
his country estate, Hunting Ridge,
Baltimore county. Death followed n
general brea kdown. He retired about
fifteen years ago as senior member
OF the hrm Of Edward Jenkins & Son.
The Washington times., 1919-08-19

/ Senator Fall-WeIl, Mr. President
/ OF course il is not my purpose to en-
! ter into an argument. but we are here
1 for information. There are provisions
| for the amendment Of the articles
Germany is out OF the league. ANY
amendment proposed by the other
members Of the league prior to her
coming into the league would not be
submitted TO her, would it, she not
/ being a member?
/ The President will admit that
( that point had not occurred to me.
| No, she would not.
! Senator FAll-Then, so far as we
are concerned, we could make a rec
ommendatiOn in the nature OF an
amendment?
Senator Pittman-She has already
agreed by this treaty that she has
Iito
The President-Yes.
EanatOr FalI-PreciseIy. and we
could come in with an amendment.
Senator Hitchcock-Did | under
stand your first reply to Senator Fall
TO be that Germany, under this
treaty, already had a relationship to
the league by reason OF it's interna-
tIonal character. and its participa-
ton IN a number OF questions that
Germany was Interested in?
The President-Yes
Senator HitchcOck-Then il has
relationship TO the League of Nations
even before the time that IL may ap-
ply for membership.
The President-Yes
Senator MCCUmber-Mr. President,
you answered one question that 1
think possibly may need a little
elucidation. II I remember rightly,
in reference to reparation, your
statement was that the commission
would have to decide whether the
The Washington times., 1919-08-19
Argue Over Article Ten.

paper correspondents the chairman OF
/ the committee, Senator Henry Cabot
| Lodge, arrived and was ushered into
/ the Presidents study. All of the
members OF the committee were
prompt and were ready to commence
at 10 o'clock.
Between Lodge and Swanson.
The President took a seat with
Senator Lodge on one side of him
and with Senator Swanson. Of Virgin
ia, on the other. Senator Borah. a
strenuous opponent Of the League OF
Nations covenant, took a seat across
the room but directly in front Of the
President. other members Of the
committee made themselves comfort
able where they could both see and
hear: ''
4. So soon as all were seated the
President began reading his formal
statement. The committee members
listened in silence until he finished.
Then Senator Lodge carefully ex-
planned the reasons for the commit
tees presence. He said that they
were seeking information to guide
them in their work and hoped that
the President would encourage de-
tailed explanations.
The President said that he was
very glad that the committee had
visited him. He said that he wanted
10 give it all of the information that
he possessed. He suggested that he
would appreciate if the entire day
could be devoted 10 the conference
and he asked whether it would be
agreeable for the committee to be
his guests at luncheon, thus conserv-
ing time. This was satisfactory to
the committee. The President then
sent word to Secretary TUmUlty to
call OF the regular Cabinet meeting,
which was done.
Although arrangements had been
made that the stenographiC transcript
OF the proceedings would be available
in installments the work Of getting
II out was delayed for some time be-
cause arrangements had not been
made for revision Of the copies. In
only the formal statement
OF the President was available for a
lon gtime after the conference had be
gun.
Attaches Of the White House de-
scribed the deliberations OF the com
mittee as courteous and slow" At
the outset, il was stated. the Presi-
dent made it plain that he would like
very much TO have the mooted sec
tiOns Of the treaty taken up paragraph
by paragraph and each one fully ex-
hausted before discussion started on
another subject. This he told the
committee would be in the interest Of
time saving.
The Washington times., 1919-08-19

fact that it would depend upon the
approving or disapproving state OF
opinion Of their countries how their
representatives in the council would
vote in matters Of this sort; and il is
inconceivable to me that unless the
opinion Of the United States, the
moral and practical judgments Of the
people Of the United States approved,
the representative of the United
States on the council should vote any
such advice as would lead US into
war.
The Washington times., 1919-08-19

Borah and the President had an
extended argUmentative discussion
regarding Article X. Senator Borah
told the President frankly that In his
opinion the obligation under it was
in every way legal and that il this
obligation were met il must be met
in that way.
THAT is not my opinion" said the
President. Il would not so interpret
the wording Of that article. Under
this provision our attitude is entirely
one Of comradeship and protection, as
it is among all Of the members Of the
league"
Senator BorRh contended that in his
opinion should actual invasion result
against any member Of the league the
obligation Of all Of the members Of
the league would be 10 accept their
legal obligations and hurry to the
assistance Of the threatened member
and that this would work against the
United States in as great a degree as
il would beneht il. The President
did not agree with this interprets-
ton, insisting that our obligation to
help was entirely moral and could
only be carried out through the regu-
lar procedure and by action Of Con-
gress.
The President told the committee
that he had tried hard to persuade
Japan to hx a date for turning back
Shantung to China but he had been
unable to do so. However, he said he
felt confident that Japan will keep
her promise.
Senator Pomerene asked the Presi-
dent whether il the treaty fails Of
ratification there will be any obstacle
to Japan treating ShantUng as she has
ManchUria- The President said there
would not eb as only the league Of
nations can protect China's rights.
AdjOuFn to Cooler Room.
The conference was Degun in the
historic blue room. The President had
caused to be assembled plenty OF COM
Portable arm chairs for his guests
while one end Of the room was taken
up with tables for the stenOgraphers.
However, before the proceedings had
been in progress an hour the blue
room was found TO be too warm and
crowded for personal comfort and the
President invited his guests to ad-
journ to the big east room, the cool
est in the building.
The first OF the committee to arrive !
was Senator Harry s. New, or Indiana /
While he stood chatting with news 4
The Washington times., 1919-08-19
KnOVS Nothing of Secret
ReparatiOn Agreements

Senator McCumber-In every case
IL would have the force Law.
Senator Swanson-If the Senate
wanted to ratify it, it would take an
act Of Congress-
Senator Williams-This question OF
reparation does not in any way af-
The Washington times., 1919-08-19

feet our rights to pre-war indemni-
ties
The President-That is expressly
stated.
Senator Williams-That is expressly
stated. Now, then, one other ques-
tion. Germany has signed this treaty
with the covenant OF the league in IL,
The Washington times., 1919-08-19
Ask About Reservations.

Senators Borah Lodge and McCumber questioned the
President in considerable detail concerning the effect of
ervahons The President asked whether the other
nations could not accept the reservations simply by keeping
silence with regard to them He replied that it would take
months for the United States learn whether their silence
meant acquecece not He stated it his opinion that
affirmative action would be absolutely necessary by the
other nations reservations
Senator Lodge stated that it his impression that
der international law silence constituted acceptance of
ervaons The President replied that there differ
of opinion among experts about that.
Senator Ptman Of Nevada asked if the President knew
whether Germany put the Interpretation upon the
doubtful clauses of the covenant the allied govenens
and the United States The President said he had
cf knowing, but pointed out that if any dispute should
arise in future years reservations accepted by silence
Germany could claim that they constituted matter in
the Treaty to which she had never agreed
The Washington times., 1919-08-19
PRESIDENT SAYS ISLE
IN PACIFIC MAY Be
AWARDED TO AMERICA
Continued from Page One


SHUTS plan had been the basis of the probably
somewhat misleading
Grand Forks herald. [volume] (Grand Forks, N.D.) 1916-1955, 1919-02-26
Mine MEETING
TO BE HELD
IN VANCOUVER
Principal Mining Experts
From Canada and United
States to Attend.

Toronto, Feb. 26.-On March II,
Is and 10 there will be held in Van
u the first International Mining
convention on the Pacific Coast, as
far as the Dominion OF Canada is
concerned. Some few months ago it
was considered by the prominent
mining men who are identified with
the Vancouver Chamber Of Mines
that the holding Of a convention
would give a FLIP to the industry in
the province. and, accordingly, mr.
rangements were made to bring Oft
the gathering in the Terminal city in
January. Several causes led to the
date being set back, but those men
TONED have now been definitely fixed
us the time when the big assemblage
of the mining experts of the North
American continent will foregather in
the city on Burrard Inlet.
The object of this convention is to
give the citizens of British Columbia
who attend. and those resident out
side the province, an idea Of the ire
mendous mineral u of British
Columbia, and in that way to ad-
vance the interests Of the industry as
far as it is possible to do SO. Those
who are interested, financially or 9TH
erwise, in mining are of the opinion
n a there is a bright future ahead
and that the convention will be the
means of making the wealth Of this
province better known in the world.
III order to impress on visitors the
! splendid of British Column
bia in this connection, the greatest
collection of ores ever seen in CANADA
will be brought together, and the me-
.chanical section will be not the least
interesting part Of the display.
The treatment of the different ores
will be demonstrated from the mo-
ment they leave the mine until they
are turned out in the shape of n or
other Of the well-known metals from
gold to iron, and special attention is
committee, which has been appointed
to see to it hat no effort will be
spared to make this the finest exhibit
ton ever placed on view in any part
Of the dominion. In themselves these
exhibits will be a splendid object-les-
son in/the manner in which ores are
being treated.
1t is proposed to invite the most
prominent mining experts n geolo-
gists all over Canada and the United
States, and already invitations have
been sent out and general acceptance
is anticipated. The big men who are
identified with the largest mining
corporations have already COM
menced to make Inquiries regarding
the convention, and this is taken to
mean that they intend being present.
AS a matter of fact, it is expected
that from every district all over the
continent, those who are engaged in
the industry will foregather at Van
couver Oh the dates mentioned. and
all indications point to the attend
ance being of a thoroughly repre-
sentative character.
Meantime the program is being
drawn up including the list Of speak.
ers, the quantity and nature Of the
exhibits and everything that will helr
i thing of it's kind ever attempted in
Canada. All the indications point tc
the gathering being an unqualified