New-York tribune., 1919-06-04
Men I'm n. Y.
Have Treaty.
Says Lod ge
Continued from page I

for, Is public to all the people of Eu-
rope, including the enemy with whom
we were lately engaged.
at is also true that this treaty is
now in the possession of certain in
terests in New York City, and while
the Senate is asking for treaty with
WHICH it ultimately will have to deal,
and while the American people are
asking for treaty by which they will
ultimately, in all probability, be bound,
certain interests in the city of New
York have the treaty and are dealing
with it. They are dealing with it and
discussing it while we are deprived
of it."
At this period Senator Swanson, of
Virginia, said he had read in the
newspapers a dispatch describing an
agreement between the parties making
.the treaty that it should not be given
out officially
of Germany or German interests
have broken that promise and given
1t out, the responsibility is with
them" Mr.. Swanson declared. "The
question is WHETHER if that statement
is true, we shall officially ask the
President to break faith and give out
treaty which according to press re-
ports it. is understood will not be
given out I see it stated that the
French Premier has refused to give
ii out and Lloyd George has refused
on account OF this understanding If
there is such an understanding. it is
reasonable to presume that there was
some substantial reason why the
treaty should not be officially given
cut. We had no partisanship in this
NATTER
Lodge Says He Saw Copy
"The treaty is in New York." de-
clared Senator Lodge. IN incisive tones.
Il had copy of it in my hand yes
terday and | heard of several other
copies. l was offered copy to bring
here and show to my colleagues. said
that no copy could come into my hands
without being made public Therefore,
1T was not given to me- but it is there
in New York
Il heard of four copies in existence
in New York. How many more there
may be in the country | do not know,
out so lar as | can make out the only
place where it is now allowed to come
is the Senate of the United States"
81 should like to ask the Senator
from Massachusetts," inquired Senator
New, of Indiana, off he has not seen
newspaper reports to the effect that the
treaty is on sale on the streets in Ger
pnnv al = coo+c oOp,.
Yes, have seen it stated in the pa
pers, and | have no doubt it is quite
true" replied Mr. Lodge.
"The issue is whether" again broke
in Senator Swanson, eve shall officially
ask the President to officially give out
a treaty which it has been stated he
has agreed not to give OUT
''Who stated that he agreed not to
give it out? Senator Lodge demanded.
"rhe Associated Press and reputable
Newspapers said Mr.. Swanson. 81
understand the Premier Of France has
said
Swanson Retorts Holly
"The Senator's understanding, SEN
ator Lodge cut in, "of what the
Premier of France has said is not en-
tircly convincing.'
"Nothing is convincing to the SEN
ator on this or any other question
ap7ertaining to the league of nations"
said Senator Swanson, heatedly "The
only position we have advocated is that
it has been customary on delicate for
eign affairs to refer matters to the
Foreign Relations Committee.
"lf it is true. as stated, that our
representative agreed that it was un-
wise and improper to give us the treaty
officially, why should the Senate ask
the President to do something that he
has agreed not to do? All we ask is
that the Foreign Relations Committee
ascertain the reason why the treaty
has not been given out and to ascer-
tain what is proper in this delicate
situation and report its conclusions to
the Senate. The Democrats do not
control that commttee'
Mr.. Borah at this point called at
tention to an "Associated Press" re-
port that Lloyd George and Clemenceau
had been willing to give the treaty to
the public, but that President Wilson
had "put his veto on it,
II assume" interrupted Senator
Jones, of New Mexico, Democrat, "there
is some information which the Senator
from Massachusetts has that makes it
apparent that somebody allowed this
treaty to get into the hands of other
The implication must be based
on information which he has withheld
from the Senate or else it is un-
founded"
Says Americans Gave 1t Out
"1s it open to me now" Mr. Lodge
replied, "to eXtricate myself from the
extraordinary dilemma which the Sen
ator from New Mexico has presented?
If it is, will say that the copies of
this treaty were given out that | have
referred to, and it was found that
many of them were going to America
and an order was issued from our
headquarters in Paris that no more
were to be permitted. They were given