Evening star., 1919-08-19
voled movement OF aggression" an
they at once acQuiesced in that.
Calls Difference One Of Form.

Calls Difference One Of Form
Senator McCumber: Mr.. President.
there are q number. Of senators who
sincerely believe that under the con-
struction Of Article X, taken in connec-
ton: with other clauses and other art
gest what we should do-of course.
while they admit the council can only
advise and suggest, that 1t Is neverthe-
less our moral duty to Immediately obey
the ciuncE., without exercising our own
Judgment as to whether we shall go to
war or otherwise. Now. the public, the
American people. great proportion Of
them. have that same conviction. which
is contrary to. your View. DO you not
think. therefore, that it would be well
resolution that shall SO construe that
section as to make 1t clear. not only to
! the Ameitcafa people. but to the world.
! that Conkress may use its own tud1-
,nert as to what It win do. and; that its
failure to. follow the Judgment Of the
council will not be considered a breach
The President: We difrer! ssnanor.
only as to the. form Of action. I
think It would be a very serious
resolution Of ratiication, hut I do
hope that we are at liberty, CO.
| ltempor8neously with our acceptance
i of THE treaty. to interpret our moral
| obligation; under that article.
]: Explains Proedure.
Senator Pitman: Mr.. President, I
! understand that under the. former
/ method, in your opinion, it would
have to go back to Germany and
| the other countries; while under the
| latter method it would not be re-
| quired to go back for ratification.
/ The President: Yes, sir: that is
my judgment.
Senator Knox: Mr.. President, is
it not true that such matters are
| ordinarily covered by mere ex-
change Of notes between powers.
| stating that they understand in this
or that sense, or do not 50 unaer-
| stand?
l. The President: Yes. sir; ordinarily.
| Senator Knox: That would be q
| matter that would require very little
time to consummate. II these con-
structions have already been placed
upon it in their conversations with
/ you.
The President But an exchange
| of notes is quite a different matter
from having it embodied in the reso-
luton of ratification.
|. Interpretation Of Article K.
| Senator Knox: If We embody in our
resolution Of ratification a statement
l GnaI we uu0cISI6uo S6CIuOh ~ OT SCC~
tion XVI or section somethfpg-elSe in
a particular sense, and this govern
nlent, through It's foreign department.,
transmits ths proposed form OF ratf-
i flcation to the chancellors Of the other
nations that are concerned In this
treaty. and II those Interpretations arc
the same aS yon have agreed upon
with them in you- conversations. I do
i not see how we would need anything
more than a mere reply to that effect.
/ The President: It would need con-
irmation.
Senator Knox: Yes, tt would need
confirmation in that sense.
The President: My Judgment Is that
the embodyins Of that IN the terms OF
the resolution Of ratification would be
Iacquiescence not only In the intorpre-
tation. but in the very phraseolcgy Of
4 the Interpretation. because 1t would
form part OF the contract.
| Senator Knox: IT might with us.
because we have SO much machinery
for dealing with treaties, but In other
|countries where it is much more SIM
pie should think it would not be.
Looked on as, Lsgislation~
l The President: It is simple Legality,
senator. but, for example, this treaty
which tho government Yves not. BY
law. obliged to submit 1t, and 1t Is
everywhere being treated a. q legis-
lative. matt6r-I mean 80 Tar as the
ratification In conceEnad =.
! Senator Knox: You mean in coun-
i tries where, under their constitutions,
there are provisions that treaties or
linarily are not submitted to the leg
islative branch Of tho government,
this treaty 10 being so submitted?
The President: So understand.
Senator Knox: Where there are two
branches of the legislative depart
ment-an upper and q lower branch
do you know whether 1t b being sub
mitted to both?
The President: think not. SIR. I
am not certain aboat that, but my
memory Is 1t is not
Senator Fall: Mr.. President, the idea
| has struck me and I have entertained
tbs view. since reading the treaty and
| the league, that Germany. having
/ signed the treaty. but not being yet
tions which we might make here
] would BE- met by Gsrmany's either
I joining the League or refusing to Join
the league. II would not be subnpitted
| to her at all now. because she is not
q member Of the league? You catch
the point?
Binding Germany in Advance.
The President: Yes. 1 diffe. with
| yOu IuSIS, SCudkVI. OHS Oh INC IGas
! sons for putting the league in the
| treaty was that Germany was not
| going to be admitted to the league
Immediately, and We felt that 1t vas
very necessary that we should get her
OBSERVATION-DISCLOSURES Of the
league as an international authority
partly because we were excluding her,
/ SO that she would thereafter have no
| ground for questioning such authority
as the league might exercise under its
| covenants.
| Senator Fall: Precisely.
I The President: Therefore, I think IL
would be necessary for her to ac-
quiesce in league. the powers of
which were differently construed.
Senator Fall: Precisely, but her ac-
quiescence would be by her accepting
1 the invitation. when extended. either
| to join the league or not to join the
league. In other words upon ratifica-
tion by. three of the powers, a status
of peace is established, and as to
those three powers and Germany all
In the theaty Of peace become opera
tive. AS to the other nations which
have not ratified, the status of peace
exists: that Is, war has terminated.
Now. that being the case. and Ger
many being. out of the league-not
having been invited to Join the league
IL in ratifying the treaty we ratify
it with certain explanations or reser-
! vations. even in the ratifying resolu-
tion, when the times comes and Ger
many is invited to become a member
Of the league. or when she applies.
under the admission clause Of tho
league, for membership therein. IL she
enters she, of course. accepts our
reservations. II she makes . qualified
application, then it is for the league
ttseif~to consider whether she will be
admitted?