New-York tribune., 1919-01-08
Secret Conferences Urged
to Arrange for City to
Take Over All Systems
Increase i'm Fare Assured
Interborough Head Reveals
How Hylan Planned to
Make Public Stand Raise

Mayor Hylan urged and directed the
series of secret conferences with Presi
cent Shonts and other Interborough
officials. resulting in a tentative agree
ment for the municipal ownership Of
all transportation lines, according to
the testimony of Mr.. Shonts, who ap-
reared yesterday before the Public Ser
vice Commission in an increased fare
hearing.
"The agreement was not our PROPOSE
ton said Mr.. Shonts in explanation.
Eve were simply trying. at Mayor
Hylan's request, to collaboratc in the
working out CT a plan like that in
Boston and make it applicable here
Shonts declared that it was the
Mayors idea for a group OF city off
Gals and another group of Inter
borough officials tc "get around a
table and tackle the problem of taking
over the traction lines in that way.
The Mayor, Shonts testified, assured
him that the lines would get 7-cent
fare under the municipal ownership of
them, as the people would "stand for
If they believed the profits would ac-
crue TO the municipality and not to a
private corporation
Saw Prospect of Fare Raise
Shonts declared that. with the
Mayors assurances in mind, he and
the other Interborough officials were
in "a receptive mood" and that they
started in the series of secret negotia-
tions with Corporation Counsel Burr
and Granville S. Macfarland in the be-
lief that there was hopeful prospect
for increased fare"
Shonts stated that the Mayor had
conplimented him personally on one
occasion, and had intim ated that he
might not be "elimnated.' even when
the city took control of the INTERIOR
ough and other lines Shonts said he
was led to believe that he might be
retained at his post, as similar officials
were in Boston.
Under cross-examination by Com
missioner Travis H. Whitney, Shonts
admitted that, while the Public Service
Commission had not been notified of
the progress of the negotiations, he
had personally communicated every
step in the discussions with the Mayor
TO J. P. Morgan, the lnterborough
banker.
Mr.. Whitney also drew forth the ad-
mission that during the period covered
by the conferences, the Interborough
sold S40,000,0O worth of securities
through certain bankers
Mr.. Shonts was the only witness on
the stand during the morning hearing
of the commission, and was under a
heavy fire for more than two hours,
during which time he went into the
greatest detail of his dealings with
city officials
Commissioners kracke and Hervey
sat with Chairman Whitney. MI
Shonts was examined by Godfrey Gold
mark. counsel for the commission, and
by Corporation Counsel Burr. James
l. Quackenbush, general counsel for
the 1nterborough, took part in the pro-
ceedings.
Further Parleying Expected
Mr.. Shonts, corroborating Quscken-
bush's testimony Of the day before,
told of four meetings with Mayor Hy
Ian, the first at the opening of the
increase was broached a second at
City Hall, when the Mayor introduced
Macfariand as "thc gentleman who
wants TO help you get seven-cent
fare" and others at which quicker &C
ton had been urged on the Mayor in
consummeting the plan.
Although Quaekenbush had taken the
practical negotiations largely in his
hands, Shonts testified that he had
been kept informed Of every move and
expected further negotiations, the re-
suits of which he could not foresee.
He said that he had sent copy OF the
tentative agreement or protocol to
Colonel Timothy S. Williams, president
Of the Brooklyn Rapid Transit, and
had also talked to representative of
the Third Avenue line.
Shonts said that Quackcnbush had
gathered, from conversation with Burr,
that the latter, representing the opin-
ION Of Mayor Hyan, really favored a
receivership fer all the transportation
lines in the city.
Burr Defends Secrecy
Corporation Counsel Burr and
Quackenbush joined in defending the
secrecy of the negotiations, and the
motives of the parties TO them Burr
declared that he did not bring The mat
ter to the attention Of the body be
cause it was still "up in the air" and
that he intended to do so when it had
been whipped into shape for profitable
discussion
They did not, however, convince the
fcommlssioncr' that the right course
rad been taken in leaving it out Of the
conferences. although it was to play a
large part in them
~ was lntimatcd by Commissioner
whitney that the personnel Of the
commission, whose members have been
threatened with removal within a
nontn BY Governor Smith. might have
been the cause of the secrecy. He in
ttmated that a commission or single
commissioner appointed by the Cover
nor might be taken into the confidence
of the negotiators.
1oldmark Examines Shonts
hr. Goldmark, counsel for the com.
mission, began the direct examination
81 President Shonts VIXEN the latter
TOOK the stand at 1890 o'clock
Mr. Shonts's direct testimony. with
reference to negotiations win tho
elty' meetings with Mayor Hvlan.
Granville Macfarland, Hearst's 1awvor
conferences with J. p. Morgan. and
general explanation of the whole tran
az situation, as reported by the com.
missione stenographer, follows. TAX
Ing up the first meeting with the
Mayor, the testimony was, starting
with Mr Shonts's reply:
Ny recollection Of that is of a vcry
general character. During the whole
evening the Mayor and I conyersed
about the necessity for relief Of ali
the transportation lines of the eity
in the way Of increased fares. and
remember at that time there were
rumors that the Federal government
was 10 take over the electric roads the
same az they had taken over the steam
reads. We discussed that phase Of the