Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1919-08-20

in drafting them, and I respectfully
submit that there is nothing vague
or doubtful in their wording"
OF course. that is your opinion, II
I may say so.
The President: Yes. sir.
Senator Brandegee: But you are IA
miliar with the statements. / have nc
doubt, that ex-senator Root. Justice
Hughes. Mr.. Taft and other able law
yers Of the country have made with re.
spect to the necessity for reservations
if we are to ratify the treaty. are you
net?
The President: Yes, sir.
Senator Brandegee: That is. you ad-
init that there are grave doubts OF
the ablest lawyers of the country as
to the necessity for reservations or
the alternative between reservations
and ratifying the whole treaty, as it
is expressed in the vernacular without
the dotting of an 81 or the crossing
of a It
The President: admit that there
are those difficulties in a great many
minds.
Vote of q. S. Essential.
Senator Brandegee: Now. Of course
it is true, is it not, that if difficulties
arise as to the construction of any
provision of the treaty after we have
passed from the scene, what we
thought the provisions of the treaty
or OF the covenant meant will not
be very powerful in the construction
who then have to determine what 1t
means, will it?
The President: The vote of the
United States will be essential.
Senator Brandegee:- do not mean
that. The fact that you think now
that everything in the treaty is plain
and that there is no doubt about the
fact that think there is grave doubt
about many of the provisions, will
not seriously affect the opinion Of the
council or of the arbitrator that
finally passes upon the true meaning
of the treaty when dispute arises.
The President: No, senator, but the
plain wording Of the treaty will have
a great deal to do, and the meaning
of the wording is plain.
Senator Brandegee: That is simply
another way of stating, is it not
that you are clear in your opinion
that the provisions Of the treaty are
plain. But I am suggesting that there
will be dispute between nations as
to what the treaty means after we
have passed from the scene.
Question Of Being Confident.
The President: No, sir, it il 4 cues.
tion of being confident Of what Ian
guage means, not confident of an
opinion.
Senator Brandegee: I mean we de-
rive our opinions as to the meanings
of the treaty from the language OF
the treaty, do we not?
The President: Yes.
Get Construction From Language.
Senator Brandegee: Now they
would derive their construction of
what the treaty means from the Ian
guage Of it, we not being there?
The President: Yes.
Senator Brandegee: 6S that what
we think about II now will not de-
termine in an international court or
before an arbitrator twenty years
hence in case of a dispute between
two nations as to the meaning of the
treaty?
The President: Certainly not. but
the language will.
. Senator Brandegee: OF course, they
will have the language before them.
but the language which determines
1t is now in dispute between you and
certain lawyers of the country. and
certain senator's, as to it's meaning:
Now what provision 10 there in the
treaty for the determination of a dis
pute as to the Interpretation of a
clause of the treaty If such dispute
arises?
The President: The covenant states
that there are certain questions which
are acknowledged as being so suitable
Tor submission to arbitration. One of
those is the meaning Of the treaty.
Senator Brandegee: What does the
treaty provide about that?
The President: You have it there,
sir.
Senator Erandegee: Yes. sir; !
wondered II you remecbered II.
The President. I think I do SO. Rut
you have the language.
Senator Quotes.
Senator Brandegee: Yes: article II Of
the league provides (reading):
The members Of the LEAGUE aSr.s
that II there should arise between them
any dispute likely to lead to a rupture
they will submit the matter either to
arbitration or to inquiry by the council,
and they agree in no case to resort to
war until three months after the award
by the arbitrators or the report of the
council"
That is. II there is dispute as con-
strue this between members of the
league as to the meaning of the cove
liant or any article thereof it shall be
The President: Only if the parties
agree.
Senator Brandegee: Or to the coun-
ell?
The President: Or to the council,
yes.
Senator Brandegee: That is. the
council is to determine the meaning OF
the covenant
The President: No, senator, I beg
your pardon. There are two processes
If the parties agree to submit to arbi-
tration. of course 1t is submitted to
they think it il a question that they are
not willing to submit to arbitration
then they must submit it to the council
for an expression OF opinion and a rec
cmmendation, but that opinion and rec
ommendation do not bind.
Senator Brandegee: Is there any Dos
sible way authoritatively Of determinine
without war what the treaty means?
True Of Every Treaty.
The President: That is true Of every
treaty, senator. II you re-express it in
the language Of the senators to whom
You refer and there was dispute about
the meaning of that. the same would
apply. You cannot use any language
assume which could not possibly give
rise to some sort of dispute.
Senator Brandegee: / assume that II
it provided that II there should arise
between the members of the league any
dispute in relation to the construction
of any article of the covenant OF the
league of nations, such dispute should
DE referred to an arbitrator and thu
members would agree to be bound BY
it's decision. that would be an agreement
for an authoritative determination o,
what the treaty meant?
The President: Yes.
Senator Brandegee: Now as IL II
they will submit the matter either tt
arbitration or to inquiry by the coun.
Gil. and SO forth. Now you say thai
the opinion of the council to which
the disnufe has heen submitted 4.