davidaulloa/AmericanStories huggingface dataset:
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
POSTOFFICERUS
DOUBLETHIS YEAR
Postmaster English Has 100
Extra Men Clearing Up
Holiday Mail
ALL TO BE HANDED
OUT BY CHRISTMAS

According TO Postmaster English.
who IS official representative OF Old
Santa Claus, In many transactions, the
volume OF business done at the local
postofllce so far. during the holiday
rush. has been 400 per cent. larger than
last year, when a new record was es-
labllshed
An increase OF that percentage
means much 20 the postal employees"
he said. 1T means. practically speak
ing. that we must handle at least eight
packages where we have handled four
during previous seasons. As early as
September we began increasing our
forces for the Christmas campaign, but
we soon found that the extra men must
be augmented by extra special men. So
far the clerks, carriers and executives
have been working together at top
speed and are handling the situation
nicely"
Mr.. English today said that the par
Gel post employees yesterday delivered
1000 more packages than they did on
the same date last year In addition,
where it only required four windows i'm
the pOstOflce corridor last year to han
die the parcel post business, seven win
dows are in use today.
In add ton 100 extra clerks and car
riers have been added to the force and
the delivery service has bcen increased
with the addition OF automobiles and
hOrse-drawn vehicles.
Postmaster English said this morning
that one thing was noticeable, that be-
ing the cooperation on the part Of the
public through the newspaper articles
Continued on Page Sixteen.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
NATION SEEMS
ON THRESHOLD
Of R. R. STRIKE
Workers Again Restless, Will
Press Wage Demand
This Week
GREAT UNAUTHORIZED
WALK-0UT FEARED

WASHINGTON. Dec. 99. United
Press Having withstood the steel and
coal strike crisis without being thrown
into a condition Of industrial chaos as
was freely predicted, the country today
stood on the threshold Of a railroad
strike crisis.
Lead by representatives or 6OOOOO
railway shopmen, heads Of railway un-
ions planned to press their wage de-
mands this week. They are determined
90 get a decision before the lines go
back 20 private ownership. which may
occur anytime after January 1.
Rail Director Hines has armed him
self with a detailed report from the
Department Of Justice which aims 60
demonstrate that the price trend is
downward and that living costs have
decreased since the Government started
its campaign TO reduce them.
The shopmens' leaders gave the Gov
ernment ninety days in which to show
a substantial decrease in living costs
or else face the menace Of a strike II no
higher wages were forthcoming.
Leaders Of the railroad brOtherhOOds
and unions declare the 100000 mem
bers OF their organizations are very
restive. 70 has been dlnlcult to hold
them In check. according to their chiefs
and there Is The constant menace or a
Continued on Page sixteen.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
HIGH SCHOOL
XMAS PROGRAM
Happy Yuletide Exercises to
Be Held on Wednesday
Afternoon
rs SANTA FRAUD?"
TO BE PLAYLET

Christmas will be greeted in merry
mood by the Wilmington High school
at the exercise 40 i2.ij o'clock on Wed
nesday, just prior TO the dismissal OF
the school for The holidays. The pro-
gram VIII be IN charge OF the senior
class.
The order Of exercises viii be as fol-
lows:
March, orchestra: "Ye Olde Carols"
school; ,a). 1T Came Upon the Mid
night Clear" d., Holy Night" cl,
"The First Noel" selection, orchestra;
presidents greeting. Howard I. Boyd;
la Christmas play, rs santa Claus a
Fraud" Senior Glass; director Of or
chestra, Prof. John d. Taylor: director
Of music, Mrs. Nellie X. Anderson; ac-
companiest, Miss Edna NJ. strong.
Mrs. Charles F. Wentz Is director OF
The Christmas play, rs Santa Claus a
Fraud?"
The characters are: "Santa Claus" ="
Prisoner at the Bar, Clifford Smith (;
"Judge," Young America" Ralph s.
Slegrist; Counsel for the Prosecution. g"
Frank Braverman; History" Louise C..
Jackson; Father Time" Warren c.
Idhulu-s ne CduhIldut AtdIl r. lta-
ger; 'Pierrette." Sadie Jacoby: 'PO-
etry." Helen T. Deemer; Tradition" q"
Maggie Talley: "Folk-lore," Mildred
wilkins; Dame Rumor sophia Roth
msn: Usher" Harvey p. Bllllngsley;
'Nflstletoe." Howard F. Hedger; eDoll," e"
Elizabeth z Thomas: "Sa'1t Valentine" &"
Albert Seller; Holly" Edwin J. Nor
timer; Counsel for the Defendant" W.
Ralph Stats; Mother Goose Annie
Macieiewski; Fairy" Pauline Buck (;
"Jack-o-Lantern." Jacob shapiro: May
Queen" Norma L. Bowen; "Crier." Mel
son II. Fritz: Goddess OF Liberty" ="
Jechebet Topkis; April Fool" Harry
w. Malone: Jack Frost" John Lentz
Waits-Helen B. Tilghman, Ethel w.
Lynch, Florence Workman. Mildred Via
gofsky. Robert p. Triblt. Howard l..
Boyd. Frank w. Newlin, Harold Cliff.
Children-Evelyn NJ. Seller. Alice j..
Marst0n, Francis Worihlngt0n, Beatrice
Peters, Ethel Fisher. Frank F. Pierson,
Albert q. II. Gricr, Joseph Breuer, Fran
els Y. Roemer, Dauglas w. Ball.
The Senior Literary Society OF the
High school, enjoyed a delightful
Christmas tree entertainment last We'd
rcSday afternoon Each member Of che
society received an appropriate present
with a cleverly amusing jingle attached.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
BULLET near
HEART WILL
KILL WOMAN
Mrs. Anna McCafferty Tells
Police, II Don't Know
Why / Did It.
Is SEPARATED
FROM HUSBAND

Shooting herself In the left breast
a few inches above her heart early yes
terday afternoon, Mrs. Anna McCanerly.
aged 80 years, Is al the Chester. Pa.
hospital in serious condition. Ply
slclans there today said her condition
Is so critical that there is no chance
OF her recovery. Mrs McCafIerty lived
with her sister, Miss Lucille stone at
Naaman's, a short distance north Of
Cstmont. and according 10 her state
ment TO Detective McNeal OF the Ches-
ter Pa. police, who interviewed the
Injured woman at the hospital. she adj
mittod shooting herself while alone in
her home.
According TO the Chester police Mrs.
McCafferty said: q don't know why
did 90 ! was. so nervous. / did not
think.
when she was asked about her sep
aration from her husband who lives
az No 81 South sixteenth street, phil
adelphla. she said: 81 am 90 blame, we
Continued on page Sixteen
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
THRIFT PRIZES
ARE awarded
Wilmington Public School
Students Fail to Win in
Essay Contest
SUSSEX GETS SIX
OF TWELVE GIFTS

Wilmington public schools failed to
gain a nrst-honor award today when
the awards in the schools OF the entire
state were announced. Twelve prizes
in thrift stamps, TO the amount OF $780,
were offered by Pierre s. dupont to the
winners. Not a pupil OF the Whining
ton Public Schools won, but pupils OF
the Ursuline Academy, a Catholic
school, carried of two prizes.
OF the twelve prizes. Sussex County
schools won six: New Castle County gd
three; Kent County got two, and Kent
and Sussex split one in the consolidated
school at Milford. The awards which
were made by The department Of Eng
lish at Delaware College were as fol-
lows:
iith and 10Th Grades.
First prize, Bessie NJ Warren,
Georgetown, nth grade; second prize
Pauline Pryor, Smyrna, 18th grade :;
third prize. Mary J. Kruger, Ursulinc
Academy, Wilmington, iith grade.
9th and 10th Grades,
First prize. Delerna Corey, Lewes. 9th
grade: second prize, Sarah O'Hara, Ur-
suljne Academy. Wilmington. 10Th
CONTINUED on Page Seven.)
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
ALSO INSISTS
THAT BANDITS
BE PUNISHED
Washington State Department In.
sfrucfs IFS Embassy TO Inform
Gorrdmza That OufrGges Must
Cease. Also ReneiUS Request for
Arrest OfOutlaiUS Who Kidnapped
HUGO, American Ranch Gunner

Mexico received Today Dy governmeu
officials.
Obregon Is the strongest contendei
Tor the presidency. Carranza, these dis
patches said, Is dote mined 90 retait
control even II he has 10 indenniie,
postpone the national election sched'
uled for July. Obregon apparently a
ready 10 take the field and start hos.
Hlitios as soon as Carranza shows ht
hand. Just now. the advices said, ths
two leaders are playing a waiting gama
each ready 10 strike after The other hai
made the FIRST move.
(Followina is the first Of a series Of
comprehensive stOr.es on the situation
in Mexico, written by the first Ameri
can newspaper correspondent TO come
out OF that country since the --latest
"crisis" The correspondent made 4
special trip from the border 10 NeNice
City TO obtain first hand information.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
BELLEF0NTE CHURCH
OPENED FOR WORSHIP

Bellefonte NJ. z. Church was opened
for services yesterday when Sunday
school was held in the afternoon and
the Rev. II. B. Kelso preached to con-
eregation that nlled the new edince.
The formal dedication will take place
on Sunday, January Z. District Super
intendent Robert Watt will preach the
dedicatory sermon at 1870 O'Clock in the
morning. There will be Sunday school
at go o'clock. with a platform meeting
i'm charge Of the Rev. II. B. Kelso. In
The evening the Rev. ]. II. Beauchamp,
secretary Of the City Missionary So
ciety. will preach. The new church is
a frame structure with handsome win
dows and electric lights. 1t Will seat
2J0 persons.
The Ladies" Aid Society Of the church
will meet at the home OF Mrs. Folsom
tomorrow afternoon, and the Christiana
entertainment will be held the night Of
January 2.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
WAGE RAISE
FOR Miners
ISOPPOSED
Operators May Not Comply
With Commissions Order,
II Made
NOT CONSULTED in
PLAN, THEY DECLARE

WASHINGTON. Dec. 22 United
Press) Coal operators here today sat
tight" and waited for Attorney General
Palmer 10 answer their assertion that
they had not subscribed TO President
Wilson's plan for settlement OF the coal
strike.
Palmer Is on record as having said
the operators were consulted and
agreed to the plan, which called for
creation Of a three-man commission 10
Investigate the mining situation and
recommend increased wages II they are
Justified. The Operators deny q.
Apparently the operators are taking
this attitude in order 10 lay a founda-
tiop for refusal TO raise wages II in
creases are recommended by Wilson S
commission composed Of John p. WhitG
former president OF the miners union
Rembrandt Peale, a Pennsylvania coal
operator and Henry w Robinson, OF
Pasadena. representing the public
The government. 70 was learned,
thinks 70 strange that the operators did
not protest Wilson's agreement with
the miners Immediately 10 was entered
into. instead Of waiting until the min
ers were back at. work and the whole
affair apparently satisfactorily settled.
The operators are 10 meet In Cleve-
land tomorrow, and at that session may
decide 10 have nothing 10 do with VII
sons wage commission Operators now
say they want 20 have Former Fuel
Administrator Garneld's plan put into
operation and it was The only PROPOSE
ton they ever agreed to. objection 10
Wilson's plan Is based on the fact that
his commission has mandatory pow
ers; that its work. as outlined, would
be endless and that its orders as 90
wages, are too retroactive.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
WILLIAM P. SEAL
DIES AT R0SELLE

William p. Seal, OF ROselle. died IN
his Seth year at o'clock yesterday
morning. Death came as the result Of
a stroke. Mr.. Seal was well known In
Wilmington.
Mr.. Seal is survived by his wife, Mrs.
Annie Seal. his son. Frank Seal, for
merly Of Seal and Aschenbach, and by
two daughters. Mrs. George Swain and
Mrs. Harry Lowe.
Mr.. Seal was formerly a farmer. liv-
ing near Centreville, for the greater
portion OF his life. He had been retired
for many years. He was a member Of
the Friends Meeting House, Fourth and
West streets. all OF his life.
The funeral will take place tomorrow
afternoon from his late residence In
terment viii be in Riverview Cemetery.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
PROF. GRANTHAM
QUITSDELAWARE
Will Become Manager of
Richmond Chemical Co.
Plant February I
DEAN BEGINS
HIS WORK TO-DAY
speclnl 70 the Evening Journal.

Special 10 the Evening Journal.
NEWARK. Del. Dec. 22-Professos
Arthur E. Grantham. for ~ years head
OF the Department OF Agronomy at Del
aware College, announced his reslgno-
tion today. Professor Grantham stated
that his resignation was sent 30 the
college trustees on November Il, but
hut had not been made public until
this time
Professor Grantham had been men,
toned as possible successor 30 Harry
Hayward, as dean Of the department OF
agriculture OF the college, and It IL
thought The announcement Of his res
ignetiOn was withheld by the college
officials In hopes Of getting him to re-
consider his action. His resignation
will take effect February l. when he
Will go TO Richmond. Va, % become
manager Of the agricultural service bu-
Continued on Page Sixteen.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
CARS PILE UP,
BLOCKING PElNSY

When the mechanism Of freight car,
on a special freight train. northbound,
on the Maryland division Of the Penn
sylvania railroad, between Elkt0n and
Iron Hill station, went wrong, about
40 o'clock this morning. four cars OF
coal were thrown from the track and
overturned No one was hurt.
The wreck caused traffic on the north
bound track TO be held up until $50
O'Clock this morning. Traffic on the
southbound track also was suspended
until $50 o'clock
The deysilsd cars were In the middle
OF the train.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22

Rupert specifically attacks the Vol
stead law in its definition OF intoXlcat-
ing liquor, claiming beer with as much
alcohol as 2.a5 is not intoxicating The
liquor interests lost in The lower court.
The two other appeals are from
Baltimore and New Orleans where the
question is whether 275 beer could De
sold during war time prohibition be
fore The Volstead law became effective
on October %, 1919 Lower court de-
clsions in these cases favored the brew
ers.
The legal nsht against constitutional
prohibition Is also expected 10 Start In
earnest today. Requests Of the state Of
Rhode Island and the New Jersey re-
tail liquor dealers 90 bring original
proceedings 10 test the validity OF the
constitutional amendment probably will
be passed upon by the court today.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22

WASHINGTON, Dec. % tUniicd Press
The stale Department instructed the
American embassy at MeXica city to-
day TO insist 10 the Mexican govern
ment that "outrages' against Ameri-
can citizens IN Mexico be stopped.
AZ the same time the department
ordered the embassy 90 renew It's re-
quest that every possible step be taken
10 arrest the bandits who kidnapped
Frederick Hugo, manager OF a ranch
near Muzquiz, In Coahuila recently.
Hugo was captured by Nilllstas and
was later reported released without
ransom. With later reports, however,
the department announces that Hugo
was released upon agreement that
within twelve days De would pay a
ransom Of $500. The department was
also Informed that The Nillistas took
from the Amerlcan-0wned ranch ap-
proximately $4,000, "A horses and a
large supply Of food during their re-
cent operations In Ooahuila.
The department has been advised
said an announcement today that while
there were only 500 bandits engaged in
The attack on MuZquiZ. tae NcXi-
can Federal forces have about 80 men
and six machine guns located within
less than 40 miles distance. took no
slcrs TO relieve Muzquiz.
AZ the same time that it announced
instructions 90 make urgent representa-
ti9us 10 he Mexican government had
been sent 10 the American embassy
the state Department received wor,
that five trains on the railroads be-
tween san paisosi ard Tamp.co ha,
been attacked and crews and passenger
msiesled by bandits during lhe bas
I've weeks.
WASHINGTON. Dec. p United PGess)
open warfare between Carranza and
General Alyaro Obregon. Is threatened
according 10 unofficial adyices from
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
BY SAW rREED

United Press stan Correspondent
Copyright, 1919, by the United Pressl
LAREDO. Tex. Dec. .22.-Mexico pass
ed through the latest diplomatic crisis
with the United States in state OF
apathy, and today is confident there ID
not The slightest dansrr OF Intervention.
During the height 0f the Jenkins
Wallace-Fall case Mexican officials prl-
vately expressed themselves as accus-
toned" 10 crisis with the United States
The average Mexican citizen was moi
even Interested enough 10 express any
opinion. The public was FAR more
c0nce ned with the sunday bull fights,
the latest actress from spain or the
Obreg0n-G Gonzales presidential cam
paim than with American diplomatic
relations.
Possibility OF Intervention did not
frlghten Mexican ollcialdom. This does
not mean they desired war. on The
contrary, they wOuiu go t0 any length
Continued on Page sixteen.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
DEATH COMES TO
W. ATWOOD WILSON

William Atwood Wilson. aged 60
years, one Of the best known residents
OF Christina hundred, died late on Fri
day at his home at Guyencourt. lie had
followed farming for many years, but
retired from that vocation year or
two ago. For many years he served
milk in Wilmington. Mr.. Wilson was
a lifelong resident Of Chrlstiana hun
dred, and was active in Republican poll
tics. He had served as tax collector in
his district His funeral will be held
tomorrow afternoon, with services at
his late home, at i.30 o'clock. lnterment
will be at Mt. Lebanon cemetery.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
LEAKING GAS PIPE
NEARLY KILLS WALLS

Failing to turn off the gas 10 the eel
lar Of his home while he connected a
gas stove to a feed pipe, Edward Walls
OF No. 42O Jefferson street nearly lost
his life late yesterday afternoon. lie
was overcome by the fumes and fell
TO the floor where he was found by
members OF his family who called the
police ambulance.
The ambulance crew turned on the
flow Of gas and found that several
others in the house had been affected
by the deadly fumes, but none Of them
had 20 be sent to the hospital.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
MOTHER OF REVENUE
COLLECTOR DIES

After an Illness lasting six weeks,
Mrs Ellen NJ. Graham. widow OF Henry
Graham, died yesterday at her homo No.
1905 West street, OF congestion Of the
lungs. Mrs. Graham was - years old.
Two daughters an1 one son SURVIVE.
The daughters are Mss Mary ). Grl-
ham. and Miss Matilda p Grahem. The
latter principal Of No School, and one
son. Harry T Graham, collector Of in
ternal revenue for the Wilmington dis
trict.
Requiem mass will be said ut St Pat
rick's Church, on "Wednesday morn
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
XMAS ACTIVITIES AT FRIENDS.

The several departments OF Frlcnds
School will give their Christmas pro-
grams tomorrow. the primary school a;
30 a. m, and ihe intermediate and high
at HIS a. m.
The winter vacation will begin at
noon tomorrow, school re-assemblins
on January >.
Friends school basketball season will
open at o'clock ton 'ght with a game
against the alumni in the school gym
nasium. The second team will also play
the alumni second team. Several play
ers who have formerly starred with
Friends will be in the alumni llne-up.
Among these are Taylor, Kniffen. speak
man and Richardson
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
TWO INJURED IN
COASTnNG ACCIDENT

Coasting accidents were numerous
yesterday. Only two Of the accidents
were Of a serious nature. however.
Those injured were: Walter Deverell'
aged &c years. Of No. COZ West Twenty
nfih street, leg fractured when he col
lided with a telephone pole. Removed
TO the Delaware Hospital in the police
ambulance.
Harry simon. aged 30 years Of No COZ
West Fourth street. leg fractured late
last night when knocked down by a
sled at NinTl and Adams streets. Re
moved TO the Homeopathic Hospital in
the police ambulance.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
sIINnAY sING AT sCmOOL.

A community sing led by irving Gas
Ter, was held az school No. p yester-
day afternoon. Miss Charlotte SloiNe.
principal Of the school, presided. H. D..
Hlnson assisted Mr. easier in directing
the singing. William l.. Lee James II.
FurOuth and Mr. Curbins sang solos.
The Diamond state Quartet led by
John n. Bell. sang a Christmas song.
Tile Rev J. W Brown made an address,
telling OF ihe good that community
work was doing in Wilmington.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
DROVE WIFE FROM
HOME in "NIGHTIES''

Pulling his wife from her bed, Will
liam Brostek beat her, put her out in
me cold with nothing on but a night
gown early this morning, It was
brought out in Municipal Court this
morning. when William was given a
hearing on a charge Of assault and bat
terry and nOn-suppOrt.
lie was fined $50 and Costs on the flrst
charge and was ordered TO pay $40 a
week for the support Of his wife.
Mrs. BrOstek testified that she has
been compelled 30 work for her own
living ever since her marriage.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
MASKED BALL AT NEWPORT.

4 masked bal VIII De gwen ln the
Masonic f.dll, Newport, on Christmas
night, Eider the auspices OF the Fun
Club. The committee consists OF Clar-
ence s. Scarborough. chairman; Warren
Garrett and George Kype.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
BOYS JUST COULDN'T
KEEP OUT OF SCHOOL.

Detective Benson this morning ar
rested Carl Gross and Shirley Brown,
two colored lads, aged II years, who
are alleged to have broken into Pub
lie school No. % yesterday and
marked the blackboards with chalk.
They were turned over 10 the Ju-
venile Court
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
pAINTING TIRE HYDRANTs.

The city fire hydrants are receiving
heir annual coat Of paint. The painters
are experimenting. some OF the hy-
drants being painted green with white
tops. while others boast Of red and
grnen cOVcrs.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
GOLD PIECES FOR WORKERS.

Each employe OF The Joseph Ban
croft and Sons Company ives presented
with 50 in gold as a Christmas present
on Saturday. The company remem-
bered its employees in a similar manner
last Christmas.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
LOST AND FOUND.

OST - WRIST WATCH SUNDAY
IL night. between Jackson and Adams
streets. on Fourth, or from Fourth to
Third, on Jackson st. Reward II returned
70 1904 W. Third st. dec22-3t.
Continued on Page Fourteen.l
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
Tie SAFE WAY

To treat colds ana coughs is to take
Father Johns Medicine because IL con
tains no alcohol or dangerous drugs.
ADV
Evening journal., 1919-12-22

Certified NIB for lnfants-Clovsr
Dairy Co-Adv.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
]. S. INSISTS THAT MEXICO PROTECT AMERICANS
THIS CHRISTMAS
TO BE BEERLESS;
NOCOURT DECREE

VOlSfead LaW Stands for Present.
Meanwhile Supreme Trib ii n a l
Orders Government to File Briefs
in TlUO More Suits, That Question
of Validity of Constitutional Pro-
hibiiiOn May be. Touched Upon
Evening journal., 1919-12-22

The safe, Sensible Drink. CLOVER
DAIRY QUALITY MLK.-Adv.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
WEATHER

Generally fair tonight and
tuesday. warmer tonight;
fresh north winds on the
coast.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22
TEMPERATuRE.
Mouth OF Christiana.

SUN AND TIDE.
Evening journal., 1919-12-22

WASHINGTON. Dec. % UNITED P9ess)
open warfare between Carranza and
General Alyaro Obregon. Is threatened
according 30 unofficial advices from
Maryland independent. [volume] (Port Tobacco, Md.) 1874-current, 1919-12-26
states Employees Want Pay oftener.

Waiting a month for their salaries is
growing tiresome to employees OF the
State government, and It is understood
that il the State Comptroller and the
State Treasurer do aot get togetNsr
and. Of their own yoiition. decide to
pay of twice MONTH she next Legis-
lature win be asked u make such
semi-monthly payments Compulsory.
State employees have long been com
planning about the old system, and
these complaints have lately become
more audible because of the increased
cost Of living. Two payments a month
instead OF one will not provide any
more money, as everyone knows, but
when employees are not getting exces-
slye pay and find themselves broke
nearly all the time, they come to the
conclusion that it will be more pleas.
ant to be flush twice a month than to
be flush only once.
So at a meeting Of the employees
OF the State Industrial Accident Com
mission. where matters pertaining to
the good Of the service were discussed
with the members Of the commission,
the matter was brought up, and Chair.
man Robert e. Lee, after the meeting,
said he saw qualification for the com.
plant. He is expected to take the
question up with Governorelect
Richie and see II anything can be
done without legislation
Maryland independent. [volume] (Port Tobacco, Md.) 1874-current, 1919-12-26

ciav pinsA n are back in the MARKET
for the ars,Nsms since before the
sss y