New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1919-12-14
Russians Too Weak
rom Starvation
For Counter Revolt
Finn, Just Escaped From
Petrograd, Says s'Reds''
Still Are in Saddle; Sees
Small Hope of Change

HELSINGFORS, Finland, Nov. 25.-
(By The Associated Press).-There Is
no likelihood of rising of the peopl.
of Petrograd against the Bolsheviki
this winter, no matter how terribl.
their plight may become, says
Saponen, prominent art dealer of
that city who sacrificed a fortune Of
100000 rubles to escape from Russia.
"The belief Of starving the popula-
ton into starting a revolution is 4
heresy," he declares. $50 far as the
Russians are concerned, they will
simply die.
General Yudenitch, without Fin
lands help, has no chance of taking
Petrograd. for he began his campaign
4 month too soon. If he had waited
until Trotzky's men began to feel the
pinch of the cold, along with in
sufficient food, their lowered morale
might enable the attack to succeed"
Escaped from Reds"
Aided by the wife of Maxim Gorky.
NJ Saponen contriyed, by lavish bribery
of the Bolsheviki, to leave Petrograd
He arrived at Helsingfors q month ago.
To representative Of The Associated
Press he related the first time for
publication his remarkable experiences
from arrest in June while serving as
representative of the Finnish govern
ment in negotiating for the exchange
of war prisoners. NJ Saponen is
native of Finland, who has resided in
Petrograd for the last ten years.
Until March," he said. we for
eigners were never molested." l had
been representing the Danish Red
Cross until took up the exchange of
prisoners on March II.
after securing q written guarantee.
signed by Schlovsky, the Petrograd
commandant, and Tchitcherin Com
missioner of Foreign Affairs that my
life and property would be safe, was
allowed to return to Finland. Never
theless, from April % until May IA I
was kept in detention in my own house,
and was formally arrested on June
2. l was then taken to Moscow. thrown
into a military camp and treated worse
than a dog, simply because l was a
Finn. l was kept in prison until
August 8, when Schlovsky ordered me
released.
"The contents of NY Petrograd
house, consisting OF works of art,
jewels valued by Russian experts at
100000 rubels, were undoubtedly car
ried off and l have no hope of seeing
them again"
Commenting on the conditions in
Russia. NJ. Saponen said:
THE Allies blockade IS destroying
White Russia, for the Bolsheviki natu-
rally feed their own followers first, and
there is little left for the government
enemies, who are pershing.
Il wish TO reiterate that there is no
possibility of counter revolt, for the
Russian peasants are incapable Of act
ing without strong leaders. 1t was the
Germans, and not the people, who
brought about the revolution which
overthrow the Emperor and later Ker-
ensky. Before the revolution people
could obtain two or three pounds OF
bread. Afterwards they were only
allowed e-eighth of pound, but they
were too terrorized to protest.
There are only three to five per
cent real believers in Bolshevism in
Russia, and they, by using drastic
measures, are able to swing the great
masses to their side"
NJ. Saponen said that the central gov
eminent, despite the control of the
army, exercised little power over the
local soviets. but the Bolsheviki have
done considerable constructive work
trade schools. Eager to educate tnc
masses, they have opened nums,ous
kindergartens, and the state takes care
of the children until they reach four
teen years of age.
Allies are Criticized
He criticized the Allies military aid
to the White Russians as ineffective. by
saying that the Allies do not send
supplies regularly and in sufficient
quantities.
THE Finnish troops could themselves
capture Petrograd, as the Bolsheviki
fear them above all others. AS re-
suit of the Bolsheviki propaganda dur
ing the war a Bolshevik officer an
nounced that he would rather fight the
devil himself than the Films, who never
know when they are defeated Seventy
five per cent of the task of conquering
the Bolsheviki would be accomplished
with the capture of Petrograd. as that
is the only way to impair the blind
confidence of the people who are believ-
ing in Bolshevism and in the invinci-
bliity of their leaders,
NJ. Saponen confirmed reports of
appalling conditions in ketrograd
which the winter will make far worse,
and said that all wooden houses had
long since been burned for fuel as well
as the flooring of others.
He asserted, however, that the deple-
ton OF Petrograd's population was not
due so much to starvation as to the
fact that the Bolsheviki had sent away
the bourgeoisie and had removed pris-
oners to the interior.