The sun. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1916-1920, 1919-07-22

overthrow Government or who would
throw bombs 10 kill q man Is not an
anarchist according to your idea?
Might Not he Anarchist.
A. He might not be an anarchist.
q. The man or men who threw the
bombs at the preparedness parade and
killed a good many and wounded great
many more, there was nothing about
overthrowing government in connection
with that, was there7
A. Well. don't know whether they
were anarchists or not.
q. Haven't you heard your counsel say
that those men were murderers as you
have?
Judge Murphy-That is objected TO as
immaterial.
Q. You don't know whether those were
anarchists who killed these men with
bombs or not?
A. / don't know.
Q. You would not call them anar-
chists7
A. don't know whether they were
or not
Q. What is there lacking In your mind
they threw the bombs and killed the
people-what is lacking in THAR
A. They may not have been over
tfic 7boNcInH1tII tHty may
have been excited or cranks.
Q. Were not they excited by the pro-
paganda that you and others like you
have circulated?
Judge Murphy-Now, your Honor. that
seems to me as wholly incompetent.
and
Tho court-How could he state what
they were excited about?
Q. Wasn't that the purpose of your
propaganda, TO excite people against
people who were advocating prepared
ness?
A Cause people to think and open
their eyes
9. Was not the purpose OF your propa-
garida to incite people against those
who were advocating preparedness?
A. Educate people and cause them to
think
Q. Do you think It was necessary to
call them "murderers" to cause them
to think?
A. don't think called anybody
'murderer'
@. Didn't you call people who were
advocating preparedness 'murderers"y
A. People who were advocating over
preparedness.
Q. Yes. over preparedness. were muir
derers7
A. Preparedness for aggression.
Q. People, that, according TO your defi-
milton, were for preparedness for agrees
sion, you characterized as murderers?
A. We felt as though We had a right
to take sides.
Q. You characterized them as murder
ers didn't your
Had Right to Take sides.
A. No, | had a right to choose sides
against over preparedness.
Q. And you chose sides against over
preparedness by calling the people who
were for preparedness or for over pre-
paredness "murderers" and promoters of
murder. didn't you?
Mr.. Lucking-I object to that because
he Is saying something which is not true.
There never was any such thing said,
and counsel cannot produce any such
statement in the record. nor from any
thing which was published
Q. Did you hear what Mr.. Lucking
said?
A. I did not pay much attention TO II.
Question read by the stenographer
as follows And you chose sides against
by calling the people
who were for preparedness or for over
preparedness 'murderers and promoters
of murder" didn't you:)
Mr.. Delavigne put it in the book /:
/ did not say it / said was respons-
ible Cor II.
Q. Then what you mean is that you
are responsible for the public being
informed that according to your views
the men who advocated what you call
over-pr eparedness were murderers ard
promoters OF murder?
A 1t was in the book and I will have
to stand for it
Q. That is what you understood the
people would understand your views
were. wasn't it?
A. Yes.
Q. That the men who advocated over
preparedness, as you have defined It,
were murderers and promoters OF muir
der?
He Avoided Personalities.
A never referred to any personality
OF any kind.
Q. Just few moments ago you said
that Mr.. Delavigne put It in the book
that they were murderers and promoters
Of murder.
Alfred Lucking-I submit that that
book should be produced. your Honor.
We have never seen It yet, or any such
statement in Mr., Delavisne's book.
Mr.. Stevenson; The witness said a
moment ago that he did. and the wit
ness is now being instructed TO say
that he did not. ! say It is entirely and
perfectly outrageous to have this sort
of suggestion to the witness.
Judge Murphy: I say that the wit
ness said "if It was in the book" he
was responsible for II.
The Witness: That is what did say
that Is what intended to say.
Q. Now. then. do you want TO change
that. Mr.. Ford?
A No, / don't want to. OF course I
am posted now; don't know whether
It was In the book or not
Q. Do you want to change from what
you have already said on that subject.
Mr.. Ford?
A. don't want to change anything
that is there.
g. II you don't want TO. don't want
to. We will leave what you said on the
record then.
A. ] cannot change It.
Q. call your attention expressly. Mr..
Ford-you regarded men who were for
overpreparedness as advocating promo
ton OF murder?
A Yes. ... ,-.
Q. DO you want to change that testi-
mony?
A. I cannot change II II 1t is there; /
was against the system for war.
Q. You called Mr.. Joy an apostle OF
murder. didn't you?
Admits Responsibility.
A. didn't; I did not do It. but I am