The sun., 1919-08-20

stand in this or that sense. or do not so
| understand?
The Presldent-Yes. sir ordinarily.
Senator Knox-That would be a mat
ter that would require very little time to
consummate 1t II these constructions
have already been placed upon 1t in their
conversations with you?
The President-But an exchange of
notes is quite a different matter from
having It embodied in the resolution of
ratification.
Senator Knox-If we embody In our
resolution of ratification a statement that
we understand section 10 or section 16
or section something else in q particular
sense, and this Government, through Its
Foreign Department, transmits the pro-
posed form OF ratification to the chan
cellors OF the other nations that are con-
cerned in this treaty, and II those inter-
pretations are the same as you have
agreed upon with them in your CONVEX
sations, do not see how we would need
anything more than a mere reply to that
effect. ....
The President--It would need conir-
nation.
Senator Knox-Yes, it would need con-
firmation in that sense.
The President--My judgment Is that
the embodying of that in the terms of
acquiescenoe not only In the interpreta-
ton, but in the very phraseology Of the
Interpretation, because 1t would form a
part of the contract.
Senator .Knox--It might with us, be-
cause we have so much machinery for
dealing with treaties, but In other coun-
tries where it is much more simple i
think it would no! be.
rro.x.a -. IogtsIaft Maffer
The President--It Is simple legally,
Senator, but, for example, this treaty
has been submitted to legislatures to
which the Government was not by law
obliged to submit It, and II IL every
where being treated as a legislative mat
teri taaan, so far as the ratification
IL concerned.
Senator Knox-You mean in countries
where under their constitutions there
are provisions that treaties ordinarily are
not submitted to the legislative branches
of the Government this treaty is being
so submitted?
The President-so understand.
Senator Knox--Where there are two
branches Of the legislative department.
an upper and lower branch-do you
know whether 1t is being submitted to
both?
The PRESIDENT think not. sir. I
am not certain about that, but my mem
ory is II Is not.
Senator Fall-Mr. President. the idea
has struck me, and I have entertained
the view since reading the treaty and
the league, that Germany. having signed
the treaty, but not being yet member
OF the league, any reservations which We
might make here would be met by Ger
many's either joining the league or re-
fuslng to join the league. 1t would not
be submitted to her at all now, because
she 10 not a member OF the league. You
catch tho point?
The President-Yes, l differ with you
there, Senator. One OF the reasons for
putting the league in the treaty was that
Germany was not going to be admitted
to the league Immediately, and wo felt
that it was very necessary that we
should get her acknowledgements
ceptance of the league as an interna-
tional authority-partlyb because we were
excluding her, so that she would there
after have no ground for questioning
such authority as the league might en-
ercise under its covenants.
Senator Fall-Precisely.
The Observation-Disclosures ! think Il
would be necessary for her to acquiesce
III a league the powers of which were
differently construed.
course il is not my purpose to enter into
an argument, but we are here for in
formation. There are provisions for the
amendment of the articles. Germany is
out of the league. Any amendment pro-
posed by the other members OF the
league prior to her coming into the
league would not be submitted to her,
would it. she not being a member?
The PRESIDENT will admit that that
afRf lad nf IN N he
would not.
Senator Fall-Then so far as we are
concerned we could make a recommended
ton in the nature of an amendment.
Senator Pittman-She has already
agreed by this treaty that she has signed
that the members may amend it.
The President-Yes.
Senator Fall-Precisely, and we could
ccme in with any amendment.
Senator Hitchcock-Did / understand
your first reply to Senator Fall TO be
that Germany under this treaty already
had relationship to the league by rea-