The sun., 1919-08-20

Secretary Lansing--That cannot
say. g,
Senator Johason--In your opinion
was it,?
Secretary Lansing-I would not want
to say that, because l really have not
the facts on which to form an opinion
along that line
Senator Johnson--Would the Japa-
nese signature to the League Of Ma
lions have been obtained II you had not
made the Shantung agreement?
Secretary lansing think so.
Senator Johnson-You~do?
Secretary lansing think so.
Senator Johnson--So that even
though Shantung had not been delivered
to Japan, the League of Nations would
not haze been injured7
Secretary lansing do not think SO.
Senator Johnson--And you would
have had the same slgnatories that you
have now?
Secretary Lansing-Yes, one more
China.
Senator Johnson-One more-China.
So that the result of the Shantung de-
cislon was simply to lose Chinas sig
nature rather than to gain Japan's?
Secretary Lanslng-No. that is my
personal view, but l may be wrong
about Il.
Senator Johnson-why did you yield
on question on which you thought
you ought not to yield and that you
thought was principle?
Secretary Lansng-Because natu-
rally we were subject to the direction
of the President of the United States.
Senator Johnson-And 1t was solely
because you felt that you were sub
feet to the decision Of the President of
the United States that you yielded?
Secretary Lansing-Yes.
Senator Johnson-The decision is
his?
Secretary Lansing-Necessarily
Now 1 wondered whether Secretary
question or not?
Lansing View Contradicted.
The President-well, my conclusion
Is different from his. sir.
Senator Brandegee-You could not
have got the signature of Japan II you
had not given Japan Shantung.
The President-That is my judgment.
Senator Brandegee-You say you were
notified to that effect
The President-Yes, sir.
Senator Swanson-As I understand.
you were notified that they had instruc-
tons not to sign unless this was in
cluded.
The President-Yes.
Senator Borah--And was 1t your judg-
ment that after the treaty had been
ratified, China's rights would BE- pro-
tected and Japan would surrender to
China what she said she would?
The President-Yes.
Senator Swanson-As I understand II
you consider this verbal agreement-ef-
fective as relating to Shantung, and
you understood that this conveyance
would be followed by az conveyance to
China
The President-Not to supersede 1t.
but the action by Japan is to follow.
Senator Johnson Yes. But, Mr..
President. you would have much pre-
ferred to have a different disposition,
Notwithstanding the promise of Japan.
in the treaty. would. you not?
The President-Yes, sir.
Senator Brandegee-Cnder Article Y
the members of the league undertake
to respect and preserve as against ex-
ternal aggression the territorial integ-
rity and existing political independence
of all members Of the league. That
is contract between the sgnatories.
We say, I'VE undertake to preserve the
territorial integrity of the members
against external aggression" which
means that we contract 10 do II, does
II notc
The President-We engage to do 1t.
Senator Brandegee-It means an in
ternational contract. does It not, a COM
pact, an agreement?
The President-Yes.
Senator NEUTRALITY-SUSPICIOUS. that is
moral or legal obligation. it is an obli-
CATION?
The President-Yes
international Promise Barred.
Senator Prandegee-Of course it is a
moral duty to keep a promise, and this
is an international promise, 81 that the
distinction between a moral obligation
and a legal one seems to me to be not of
great importance because we are obi
gated in any event
The President-Pardon me. l think
II is of the greatest importance. because
the element of Judgment enters into it
as II does not in the other.
Senator Brandegee - You mean that
judgment as to whether or not it is
neral obligation?
The President-No For example, you
submit question of arbitration and
agree that the decision shall be final.
The judgment OF one of the parties 10
the controversy may be that the deci-
sion is 8 very bad one but it has to ac-
cept IT the element of judgment is ex
cluded altogether. But with regard to
the method of fulfilling obligations of
covenant like that there is freedom of
judgment on the part of the individual
members OF the league. 1t seems TO me
that makes very considerable differ
ence.