The sun. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1916-1920, 1919-07-18

A. IL was against miiitarism. or II
| was militarism.
Q. asked you that question. not to
embarrass you.
A. No. sir.
Q. But simply to show when you said
the word TRAITOR was used that Urea
son" means something that Is done by
traitors. and when you said treason was
with traitors; you understand that?
A. Yes.
Mr.. Luclsing: I submit that Is mere
use of words. You may say man Ia a
murderer who killed my dog. Now
everybody knows that he In not q muir
derer. That Is shown in this connec-
| ton. Mr.. Ford was speaking about mu-
milton makers who tried to promote war
and describes II as treason. II may be
quoted as such, but II 10 not treason, In
the ordinary meaning of the word. The
context explains itself, and It seems 10
me counsel has no right to say Mr.. Ford
called anybody a traitor. as he did not,
and only referred to Il as treason In the
sense described, viz. that there were
munitlon makers fearing the ending Of
| the war. building large buildings, and
we're trying to promote war. You may
call that anything you like IL you de-
scribe II fully.
@. And this treason, OF patriotism, has
deluded many who have not thought ana
| will not think? What treason did you
refer to?
A. don't know.
Q. Do you know the context that Mr..
Lucking says will show exactly what Il
| means?
Mr.. LuclSing: I submit IL II does not
show all there should be no questions
on It.
O. Do you know what the context is
what It means?
Doesn't Know what Context IL.
A No, do not.
| Q. suppose that It Is something In
connection with It?
A. Yes. sir.
Q. Well, II II is in connection with II,
let us see. (Readlng.) THE munition
makers fear the ending Of the war.
They have built vast additions to their
factories, not temporary structures but
great buildings. as indicating not only
hope but determination that this war
shall continue and other wars shall fol-
low and bring their bloody profits with
| them. II they cannot force war, they
can at least, they believe, tie up this
country for huge munition contracts.
and they and their tools are preaching
fear to get those contracts. And this
treason, masked as patriotism. has de-
luded many who have not thought and
will not think"
A. Does it point out what kind of
treason?
Q. You used the language. What did
you mean?
| A. don't know what II means.
told Mr.. Delayigne 10 get the facts as
| closely as he could
| Q. Is just a garbled misstatement7
A. Possibly so.
| Q. You knew 1t when It went outf
| A. don't know as knew that.
| @. Didn't you read that?
| A. read II. part OF It warned him
to get as many Of the facts together as
he could and cover that. never saw
that before.
| q. Now that you see It going out over
your signature, what do you understand
It was intended to convey to tho pub
lie!
A. Convey to them what militarism
was: yes.
Q. Tina. miiitarism was munitions
makers?
| A. One thing.
O. Munition makers feared the ending
OF the war?
| A. Yes.
Q. They were the traitors In part tina,
| you referred to?
| A. Yes, sir.
| Mr.. Lucking: They should be limited
| to a reasonable amount OF cross-exami-
nation--a reasonable amount
The Court: don't know whore TO put
the peg in and end II, exactly. myself.
| Mr.. Lucking: 1t Is all up to your
Honor. of course.
The Court: I suppose 80.
Mr.. Lucking: How far and how Ions
to permit II.
The Court: will say this, so far ms
that limit Is concerned, that suppose
the counsel has the right to go far
enough with the examination to get a
clear idea of all that Mr.. Ford meant In
the article and what was said In any of
the articles that he put out. That is al
I can say, and in getting at this ques-
ton here It Is difficult to say where the
line ought 20 be drawn.
A I Just said traitors.