New-York tribune., 1919-12-12
Swear Captain Told Subordi.
nate Officers to Run Him
OFF, From Camp and Not
to Waste Any Bullets
Tell of Many Beatings
Witness Admits, However,
He Was Thrice Courtmar-
tailed, 'Bobtailed' Once

Witnesses at the general court mar
tial Of Captain Karl w. Detzer at Gov
ernor's Island yesterday testified that
the former commander of the 3O8th
Military Police Company at LIE Mans,
France, ordered two of his subordi-
mates to take a prisoner out to look at
some stolen government property. to
make him run and then "shoot at him
without wasting any bullets" Deter
IS being tried on twenty-eight speci-
tlcations of alleged brutal treatment OF
A. Z. F. prisoners in his charge.
Clarence II. Lacey, a tall, powerfully
built man, was the prisoner who, ac-
cording to his own testimony, was or
dered chased and shot, and his state
ments on the witness stand yesterday
corroborated those made by Thomas
Gossett, of Palestine, Tex, who was
questioned on Wednesday, the first day
yesterday morning.
Testifies to Shooting Order
Gossett testified that he overheard
captain DETER tell Sergeants Hoyt and
Madden to take Lacey out where some
stolen property was stored, make him
run and shoot him.
Lacey's testimony occupied the entire
afternoon. Major William F. Kelly the
judge advocate, and Lieutenant Thomas
L. Hetferman, counsel for Deter,
clashed frequently over points of law.
Lacey, formerly a member of the
olth Division, now a resident of In
dianapolis, went A. W. O. l.. when his
outfit was at Camp Lee, Va. in May,
1913, and was still detached from his
division when it sailed on June Is,
1913 for France. He went abroad
about October 2S, 1918, and joined his
division. Lacey was courtmartaled
three time for icing absent without
leave and testified yesterday that al
together he had been away from mill
tary discipline for about two and one
half months. Previous to his enlistment
in the 37th Division, he was dropped
from the 9th Cavalry for deserton.
Kicked and Beaten, He Says
Lacey testified to brutal treatment in
the provost Office. A gun was stuck
into his stomach, he was kicked and
beaten and called names, he said. He
corroborated Gossetts testimony con-
~Si'iiiiS IiiC SHoOClllS jIlClueuL anu SalQ
he had been three or four days with
out meals, only being allowed bread
and water; that he was not permitted
to sleep, and that he had to stand at
attention from twenty-four to thirty
SIX hours at a stretch, five minutes up
and five minutes down. The witness
also testified that under threat of
death, he signed false confessions,
statements not in his own language
and which had been prepared in ad-
vance.
II was coming out Of cafe with
Harry Yates and Marcellus Gonzales, "
Lacey said, when we met the captain
and Sergeant Madden in a motorcycle
and | went along with the captain
Yates then produced a. gun and told
Captain Deter to move along. He did
So"
Yates to Testify To-day
Yates, who is confined on Governors
Island and is expected to testify to-day
and Lacey escaped, but were arrested
the next morning, February 27, 1919
Lieutenant Hetfernan attempted to
show that Lacey, while in confinement
IN lie Mans, talked with other prison
crs there about "getting" Deter.
Louis Schmitt, formerly private in
liesSuiuc 4 Ill Ncii Pdliy VI lIit ou DlNl-
sion, who was gassed in the Argonne
and who now is a train clerk living at
907 Tenth Avenue Long Island City,
was the first witness yesterday. He
testified he saw Captain Deter order
Private Gonzales to eat cigarette
which he was smoking. Captain Det-
zer, he also said, usually carried g
blackjack and pistol.
Was "Stool Pigeon"
When Schmitt was brought before
Captain Deter for being absent with
out leave, he testified, Captain Detzer
told his men to "handle him with kid
gloves" in order to obtain information
about other soldiers. Schmitt testified
he saw Captain Deter strike drunken
corporal in the face, saw men who
had been beaten in the captains Off ice
and other evidences of assault He
told how information supplied by him
caused the arrest Of other soldiers.
"You were q stool pigeon for Cap
tain Deter, then" asked Lieutenant
= rHeffernan.
eyes, was stool pigeon or dirty
rat" Schmitt replied. II did it to save
myself from beating by Captain Det-
zer"
Schmtt admitted he had a grudge
against Captain Deter because of in
sulting remarks about his mother
passed by the latter when Schmitt first
was arrested.