davidaulloa/AmericanStories huggingface dataset:
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07
FOR SALE

$4OS cash and $50 monthly will buy a 9-room. 2-story house, with 1srge corner lot; house alone worth more than we are asking for house and lot. This house is in first-class condition. new com position shingle roof; in fact, everything Is in flrst-class condi- ton; has bedrooms, Is particu larly suitable for large family or for boarding house, and Is well To- cated for boarding house. This is in North Haven.
 s125 cash and s25 monthly, a neat broom cottage, with hall running through house. fine cabinet man tels. has two lots. on corner near car line and near the fair grounds, South Ensley and North Bessemef cars.
 $200 cash and 80 monthly will se cure a nice Groom cottage; house alone would cost not less than 5000 to build This Is on a lot worth $50 We will sell the house and lot for less than cost of house. This is located in North Haven near the car line. Now is the time to buy home, for you will not live to see the time that you can buy at prices now offered.
 s50o0, small cash payment, will buy a double house of rooms on each side (16 rooms), furnace to each side. This is a bargain for someone who wants to buy for in vestment.
 s70O0, 10-room, 2-story, is suitable for and is being used by two fam lilies, has two bathrooms, etc., is well located on 11th ave-, s.; might take a smaller house as part payment, balance on long time.
 s200 cash and s25 monthly, a neat J5-room cottage with sanitary con nection, Eft front, on beautiful elevation, about three blocks from Tidewater car line, East Lake. $7000-$20O0 cash and 5000 yearly will buy a corner 190x100 feet, with six houses of rooms each and one house of rooms. These are double houses. situated about three blocks from Terminal sta tion The houses cannot be built for less than $6Coo, and the lots are worth $So00 This price for a few days only.
 s35O0, nice Groom cottage, with bath, etc., on lot 100x200 feet, on hill overlooking the city. This is fine place for someone who tants large lot and good garden; on Graymont Heights Graymont. Investment Real Estate Company of Alabama 412-16 American Trust Building.
 Phone 764.
 Harry Lyon, Sales Agent.
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07
LIVE STOCK


 TWENTY THOUSAND mares, horses and mules are for sale in Texas at your price. We invite yuu to our first auc- ton sale in San Antonio, Tex, Octo- be.r Il and F, at F. A. Cooke Live Stock Cos stables. lb2l $. San Marcos st. We guafantee to have 800 head and to sell thein ;la long as any one will buy. They are consigned with orders to sell and there wil Ee bargains here in all classes. Fifteen cars will be sold in car lots. graded according to quality; many War horses and mules that are too thin to so to war by now will be sold, and on this class man with feed can make big dollars double" in 60 days. We will, have good ones. better ones, bad ones and verse ones. young and old. broke and wild, fat and lean. Be sure to be with us, October Il and F. Southern Horse Auction Co. 2. T. Miller, 101 Ranch, Oklahoma, Sales Manager.
 .6.2t
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07

4O-ACRE farms free 23l good Minnesota Farms will be given in exchange for a little work. men or women. Address Box N, K. A. Girard. Kan
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07

FOH SALE-Smith-Prem No. type writer for sale cheap; good condition.
 Call Main 44s6-W 9-30-tf
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07
FARM AND TIMBER LANDS

FARM land for sale by owners; write TOT free lists Ingram Land Co, Bir-
 mingham e-2-30t
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07

WANTED-To W hear from owner of good patent for sale. Northwestern Business Agency. Minneapolis. Minn.
 ESQ., -su
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07

so'OW acres round timber pine and cypress in solid body, g acre in fee; mas six miles water front; plats and cruisers estimate on request; Florida lands of every description; exceptional investment; write me. William I. Phil HpS Miami Fla
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07

FREE-20-acre Wyoming government oil claims; going fast; send $25; $ now, g weekly we file immediately; saves you travelling expenses, etc. adult citizens, either sex no residence required; your opportunity. Burlington Oil Land Agency, Railroad Bldg, Denver, Col FARM FOR SALE-Splendid 30 acres, in high cultivation, half mile graded school, churches, station, plenty feeds seeds, modern implements stock, plenty best water; on highway; daily mail at door, miles city; next crop should half pay for place; owner leaving state. Address X-43, care Age-Herald
 FOR SALE-25-acre farm. 3 miles north of Gadsden,. on Turkeytown road; well improved; broom house; good water; terms. Address J. c. c. Watson, Gads- den, Ala. Phone 542.
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07
HOlstein Cows


 Just arrived at Birmingham Stock Yards, 2 loads Holstein cows and heifers; will come fresh in a few weeks Also a few yearling heifers and bulls. Holsteins and Herefords. Birmingham Stock Yards, 16th st. and Fist ave, north. Phone Main 3734 10-6-2t FOR SALE-Extra fine, highbred saddle horse: 5 years old; color bay; gentle for lady to ride; scared of nothing: will allow trial. Also bay mare, 10 years old; well bred; works anywhere; extra good farm animal. Also bay mule, com ing years old; broke; large for age. Also have three extra highbred coits. } to { years old; pacing stock; broke, and will race next season; fine pros- pect. would make excellent saddle ani-f lnaIs: will sell right. Might trade all stock for something of equal value. Call Main 10e6 or address Horse" care Age Herald 10-5-frl-su-no CHOICE registered Dltroc pigs and giits. Young's Farm, Vernon, Ala
 MIICH cows for sale: carload Of brand new, extra fine. and 4-gallon. high grade Jerseys. with young calves just arrived at Union Stock Yards, corner s3d ave. and 25th st.. North Birmingham car line: will swap for dry cows Phone Main 1Onn
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07
CARPET CLEANING

PARlSIAN RUG AND CARPET CLEAN
 ING CO, mattresses made new, speclai prices. prompt deliveries. work guaram. all
 teed. Phone 1924 Main. Factory z1V1 Ave. F. s-9-- su-mo-tu wed-tf
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07
REAL ESTATE FOR SALE

FOR SALE-By owner, very desirable South Highland home: would take sub urban property in exchange as part payment; eight rooms large sleeping porch. servants house and garage. Call Main S512
 FOR SALE-In Woodlawn. broom home with all conveniences; on elevated lot. facing east Address PIP N 50th st
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07
FOR sALEABR1cK HOME

Two-story, rooms, new and modern to the minute; faces cast on large lot. near tho boulevard in Norwood. An ideal home for less than cost and on good terms.
 WHATLEY & WHATLEY
 1102 Jeff Co. Bank.
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07

WANTED--E two-story. modern homo in Norwood. Will exchange Q beauti- ful Woodlawn cottage and pay cash difference. Whatley & Whatiey, 1101 Jeff Co. Bank
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07

FARM for sale; 679 acres; very easy terms; only 10 per cent cash. Box 72, Greensboro, Ala.
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07
SHOW CASES STORE FIXTURES

See me. Agents Georgia Show Case Co,
 H. c. Goodman, 2024 5d ave. Phone SSS9 Main 10-1-14t-eod
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07

l, iicSot.,le .Cdus rvat Can handle desirable farm loans. Me- connell. Anglin. White. aO26 3d ave.
 1O-29-f f
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07
slo, 600 TO LOAN.

At and per cent, in amounts to suit borrower. on first mortgages, on resi- dence or business city property; rate of interest governed by security off, fered: expense reasonable. WHATLEY & WHATLEY.
 1l02-3 Jefferson County Bank Bldg.
 10-A-Af -thtl- fri .syl -tll
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07

MUNEf- We have several thousand dol- lars to lend Birmingham business and high -ciass residence property, at and per cent. D. F. Allen & Co. 322 Hood bldg 9-7-13t-eod WE have $l.O0o,OuV to lend on Birmingham business and high class residence prop- erty at 51a to per cent owing to lo cation and class of property D. F. A. len 6 Co, BIO Lyric Bldg
 1O-3-15t-we-t thu- fri -su
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07
REAL. ESTATE WANTED


 WANTED-To exchange. Groom. modern bungalow, Fountain Heights. for or ' room bungalow or 2-story home. Nor wood; 30th to 33d st. preferred; Norwooe proprrty not to exceed 5000; will pay difference In cash. Address R-B, care Age-HeraId, or phone Main ,ssl
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07

k ck day IS bargain day at the Secondhand Book Store, s2t N. 18th
 street. t0-3-15t
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07


 terms only 10 per cent cash Box 72, Greensboro, Ala
 ONE hundred acres black prairie lana on pike road; Groom residence, three tenant houses plenty of good water, barn, five acres in hogtght wire, or chard, also gristmill, storehouse, $SO0 stock general merchandise 800 bushels corn, 20 tons hay. IS tons velvet beans, mules, mares, farming implements, wagons. buggy, surrey cattle, 100 head Rhode Island hens three guineas, 15 turkeys, 20 head hogs. Write or come to see me. I can show you bargain. J. B. Fort, Blalock Ala. A CHANGE of lifetime; owner leaving, will sacrifice 110 acres s miles from courthouse, Shades mountain fronting Montgomery highway; has several fine springs; finest proposition for dairy or subdivision. Address P-43 care Age Herald
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07
FOR sALE-MIsCELLANEoUs

THOSE wishing to preserve the Roto- gravure Section of The Age-Herald can get binders by calling at The Age Herald office. Price only s5c.
 1.12tS
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07
REAL ESTATE LOANS


 PROTECTIVE LIFE INSURANCE Go, home office, PIP 1st ave, has money to lend on income earning farms or central city Birmingham property without brokerage, to suit borrower, in amounts not less than 5000.
 10-6 -bt
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07

MUI,IGAtIr. LOA.>S
 We buy first mortgages, or negotiate new loans. on. Birmingham real estate; rates reasonable: call and see US. Title Guar antee Loan and Trust Co.,. Title Bldg, Sd and Fist st lz-6-tf
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07

MORTOA0E LOAN6 on business. residence and farm property; rates to per cent: prompt service. JEMISON CO. 211 2oth St.
 2-fa-tf
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07

neSot.a.- iiUr. .SAse IualS at low
 rates and buy mortgage paper, Leon-
 ard-Riley Co.,. 725 Woodward. S-31-tf
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07

REAL ESTATE LOANS AND PER CENT money to loan on real estate anywhere in Greater Bir- mingham Clark-Malone Realty Co. 404 North 10th st. 6-3-tf
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07

ELEVEN hundred dollars to loan for
 one or two years on mortgage real' estate or acceptable collateral. Ad :
 dress D-44. care Age Herald
The Birmingham age-herald., 1917-10-07

ENGINES. , 5xS-Inch vertical engines. 1 12x9- inch vertical engine. 1 1Sx20-inch balanced valve side crank en- zine. 1 i3x1S-inch side crank engine. isx1S-inch self contained side crank en- zine. l. cx24-inch Corless engine. i6x36-in inch Corless engine. i2xl4-inch Atlas automatic engine. sx10-inch center crank engines. l ss;1O-inch self-contained side crank en- zine.
Honolulu star-bulletin. [volume] (Honolulu [Oahu, Hawaii]) 1912-2010, 1917-05-30
DEMOCRATS DECLINE CHANCE TO MEET
REPUBLICANS IN CAMPAIGN DEBATE
Bryan Bourbon Manager Says Previously Arranged Precinct
Meetings Must Be Kept-G o. P. Endorses Star Bulletin
Suggestion and Challenges But in Vain

Republican campaign managers last
night indorsed and accepted the sug-
gestion in yesterdays Star Bulletin
that the G. o. P. hold joint public
debate with the Democrats. Today
i the Democrats declined the ReFubli-
can challenge sent out by E. p. Fo-
garty, campaign manager.
In declining 10 adoot the suggestion,
W. A. Bryan, The Democratic D'an-
ager, says that the Bourbons have
three meetings scheduled for Friday
evening, the date Of the proposed de-
bate, and that il is absolutely impos-
sible to call off these meetings and en-
gage in the debate.
IF we had received the challenge at
an earlier date We would have been
| able to accept It," he says.
His letter follows:
Mr. Edward Fogarty, Republican cam
paign manager, Honolulu, Hawaii.
Dear Sir:
"At a meeting Of the Democratic
Campaign. Committee held at Demo
cratic headquarters at o'clock LIST
evening, your letter Of the same date
suggesting that a joint political de-
bate be held at the Bijou theater, Fri
day evening, was duly considered.
Owing to the fact that the eommit,
tee has had scheduled and advertised
for more than week, three meetings
for that date fKaneoke. the BanyaD
i - l1aI.1 I.
Honolulu star-bulletin. [volume] (Honolulu [Oahu, Hawaii]) 1912-2010, 1917-05-30
Swiss Deny Food
Resold to Germans

NEW YORK, N. Y, May 3o.-Dr.
Paul Ritter, Swiss minister to the
United States, declared today that the
embargo section In the new espionage
bin "portends disaster" to Switzer.
land.
Under this section the president can
prohibit the expectation Of cemmodi-
ties from the United States which it
IL believed are destined for Germany
through neutral countries, and It has
been limited that large supplies of
toodstuffs now going to neutral coun.
tries Of Europe might be held at
home.
DR.. Ritter says that It is true that
Switzerland imports five times as
much wheat from the United States as
before the war, but declares this Is
because It Is impossible to import the
other tour-fifths, as formerly, from
Russia and Rumania.
Honolulu star-bulletin. [volume] (Honolulu [Oahu, Hawaii]) 1912-2010, 1917-05-30

suggestion contained in your letter.
Saturday all of our candidates win
speak at several meetings in the Koo-
lau and Waialua districts while on
Monday night we have q final rally at
Aala Park. Il /.
Republicans and independent yot-
ers are always welcome at any of our
meetings and am happy to say have
attended many of them in. numbers,
both in the primary and 50 far I'm the
general election campaign. -
I'VE take this opportunity to renew
and extend a cordial invitation to all
who desire to meet the Democratic
candidates and familiariZe themselves
with the position and attitude of the
party and its candidates on the issues
involved in the present campaign, to.
attend any Of our meetings, but can
special attention to the final rally
Monday night at Aala Park, where the
party platform viii be fully presented
by number Of able speakers.
"Regretting that your suggestion
for the debate came at 50 late date
that IT is impossible to accept It, am,
Very truly yours,
Nv. A. BRYAN,
Campaign Manager.
AP. 8. IN view Of the premature pub
licity given to the proposed debate q
this mornings Advertiser shall e.
1..or& ~. A Give S|@|..| -. 49, 1.
Honolulu star-bulletin. [volume] (Honolulu [Oahu, Hawaii]) 1912-2010, 1917-05-30
Russia Shows Some
Fight h RuInania
gAssociassd Press BY Q. 9. Naval oonmnni

Associated Press by q. 8. Naval Oommnnt
cation Seryice) &
NEW YORK, N. X, May 30.-The
Italians have paused in their drive
AGAINST Trieste In order to advance
their heavy artillery and to properly
consolidate the miles OF trenches they
have seized from the Austrians. =
Taking advantage Of this hull on the
southern end OF the line. the Aus
TRANS attempted q major offensive
yesterday towards the north, ON the
Immediate Gorizia front, attacking the
Italian defenses on the Vodice. This
attempt proved to be disastrous. the
Italians crushing the attack and
launching counter that drove the
Anstrians back to their own lines and
then from these In confusion.
An outstanding feature Of yester-
days reports was the news from Rn.
mania, where the Russians have re-
newed their offensive against the
Germans and Bulgars.
This offensive Is supposed TO be due
% the fact that M. Jassy. the French
minister Of munitions, and Kerensky,
the Russian minister Of war, are now
whiting the Russian Rumanian front
A despatch from Petrograd an
nounces that all monks In Russia have
been ordered 70 leave at once for the
front, there TO be engaged In sanitary
work.
Honolulu star-bulletin. [volume] (Honolulu [Oahu, Hawaii]) 1912-2010, 1917-05-30

Nicholson, now on sick leave.
The scene OF the tragedy was be-
yond Maizena, landing. Mr.. Kennedy
believes the Claudine which went. 70
the crews aid must have been on the
other side, Kipahufu way.
insured With Company Funds
The Hamakua was a wooden ship
and It b believed II she was lost BY
fire that no sign now remains Of her.
The metal parts are surely at the bot.
tom beyond salvage, according 70 Ken
neay. The ship was fully insured, but
In the company itself.
This Is the second loss sustained
by the Inter-Island company in the
last three months. In March the Maui
was lost on the rocks off the island OF
Hawaii and several efforts to save
her failed. S..-s>s-,zss
Although President Kennedy could
place no valuation on the Hamakua he
declared that six months ago sister
ship sold for $4,000. Boats are now
worth just about what you ask for
them, he says, and 1t would take q
much larger figure to replace her.
Brought Here from Coast
Formerly lumber boat on the Paci-
fic coast, the Hamakua was purchased
about Is months ago by the Inter
Island. She was laid down in Fair
haven, California, in 1908.
Her dimensions were ITS feet length,
3S-foot beam. She was OF $50 horse.
power, 646 tons draft. She was for.
merly named the Shoshone and burned
fuel OIL Kennedy reports that she
had adequate fire protection including
extinguishers, buckets and hose.
!, Superintendent Mckay, on the Ma.
una Kea, will probably meet the Clau-
dine with the Hamakua's crew at La
haina this evening. The CIaudine Is
expected here with the crew early to-
morrow morning. .s s.s.--- =
Honolulu star-bulletin. [volume] (Honolulu [Oahu, Hawaii]) 1912-2010, 1917-05-30

A brief wireless with first news OF
the sea tragedy was received, this
morning by President James A. Ken
nedyr Of the Inter.IsIand. ...s a /. !
The message was the first intimar
ton In Honoinla % the disaster. i
arrived about 8 o'clock from George
Dunn, the InterIsland agent ct La
hama. Il said: p -
"Aamakua total loss by fire. cres
landed KeoneoIo. Chief officer, one
crew dead. claudine gone for crew Al
request Of captain Hamakua."
William Mckay, general superinten-
dent, left Immediately on the MauIa
Kea at 10 o'clock To- get first-hand in
formation and President Kennedy
wirelessed for more details. r 80
The Hamakua left Honolulu about 4
o'clock yesterday afternoon loaded
with general supplies. Although the
message does not state the exact time
of the tragedy, Mr.. Kennedy believes
it came late last night The ship
carried no passengers but had q COM
plement Of about 45 men, including Of
ficers and crew. =
The Hamakua carries explosives and
although Mr.. Kennedy was not sure
this morning, he thought It Is prob
able there were some on board this
trip. The vessel also carries lime.
President Kennedy heard he rumor
on the street that an explosion figured
In the ships fate. Whether this caus-
ed the fire, or vice versa, he does not
hazard guess. =
The chief officer reported killed is
George Nystrom, who has been with
the company long time. He has q
wife and family here. r-.-
The captain Is John C. Wichert, for.
merry on the Claudine and also an
old-timer with the company. Accord
in; to the message, he Ii safe. He
has been on the Hamakua only few
months taking the place Of Capt d. r.
Honolulu star-bulletin. [volume] (Honolulu [Oahu, Hawaii]) 1912-2010, 1917-05-30
RACE RIOTS STIR
ILLINOIS WORKERS
ASSOCIATED Press by o. 8. Naval commuui
y cation Seryice)

(Associated Press by q. s. Naval oommuui
cation Service)
EAST ST. LOUIS, Ill, May 3d.
Race rioting, precipitated by the i'm
portation, by the various industries
here Of q thousand laborers on Mon.
day, broke out in violent form yester
day, following scattered clashes
throughout Monday afternoon and
evening. The whites and negroes
fought q pitched battle, In which
knives and clubs were used, three
nhites and thsek ocgr0es befns serE
ously wounded IN tEe melee. T
The situation got beyond the con,
troll of the police and the national
guard was called out to restore order.
With this assistance, the police made
hundreds Of arrests last night.
One Of the first orders issued by
the chief OF police yesterday closed
all saloons, while another order issued
last night prohibited citizens from
leaving their homes. The militia,
the town, has orders to ar
rest anyone abroad without permits
sion. All public places are closed.
Honolulu star-bulletin. [volume] (Honolulu [Oahu, Hawaii]) 1912-2010, 1917-05-30
IN DAYS or war PAUSE IS TAKEN
TO PAY TRIBUTE TO HEROIC DEAD
Military Pageant and Appropriate Services at Cemetery Mark
Memorial Day in Honolulu Ten Veterans Civil War in Line

Under the shadow of a mighty war,
Honolulu today turned out in military
parade to do honor to those veterans
who half a century. ago offeredFtheir
lives upon the field Of battle.
Il was Memorial Day, 1917, and the
patriotism which manifested itself
among the banks Of people that
watched the parade was Of the deeper
and quieter sort; that showed in the
lifted hat or the tear-dimmed eye as
the flags, passed.
It was not a holiday crowd, but one
which turned out to .pay respect to the
nations sacred dead. One felt the
thrill of it as the parade unit by unit,
swept by. /. -
Seriousness reflected itself no:
alone in the crowd Of almost silent
watchers, but also in the faces Of those
who marched in the parade, soldiers
from the army, men Of the national
guard, youths and small lads Of mill
tary schools, and grizzled veterans Of
past wars.
= Nature did her best, and over the
military scene there smiled blue Ha-
waiian sky slightly overcast with
clouds.
Not for many years have so many
flags appeared at half mast in the
trade winds as fluttered today over
the streets through which the march
ers passed.
Patriotism and the ominous spirit of
war sounded in the music that the
bandsmen rendered as they marched,
Tramp, Tramp, Tramp, the Boys Are
Marching" and the Battle Cry Of
Freedom" quickening the blood as the
long column began its way up King
street toward Fort.
Regular Army Leads Way
1t was at 1920 o'clock that the pa
rade BEGAN moving off in true mill
tary fashion as the various units
swung into the long column on King
street. Eight members of Honolulu's
mounted police force headed 1t.
Directly back Of these rode Lieut.
Col. William r. DashieI1, infantry,
grand marshal Of the day, together
with his aides. Col. Dashiell was
upon a beautiful dark brown,
almost black steed, that seemed to
sense the martial spirit of the day.
sD0uluu IuIS STOup CdMo Zig 20 III
fantry band Of fully 40 pieces, headed
by Chief Musician Jacobson, playing
and marching in perfect time and
order.
Maj. Guy G. Palmer, commanding
the provisional battalion of infantry
men from Fort Shafter. rode with his
aides behind the bandsmen, and after
him marched four companies IS fol-
lows:
Company A, Capt. Carl A. Martin,
commanding; Company B., Capt.
Charles L. McKain; Company c, Capt
John Randolph, and Company K, Capt.
Thomas l. Crystal. Trim and neat in
their uniforms OF khaki, these Entan-
trynen looked In the pink OF condi-
ton as they swung lightly by with
guns at perfect angles.
They marched in column of pla-
toons, three squads each, filling the
street from side to side.
Band Appears Little Depleted
Came next the LIST Infantry band Of
the National Guard, seemingly little
depleted by the recent discharge or
1r1s noS,1 rIaa<feS<< a, .-<<<E .srts
Honolulu star-bulletin. [volume] (Honolulu [Oahu, Hawaii]) 1912-2010, 1917-05-30
INTERISLAND VESSEL MEETS
DISASTER OFF MAUI; RUMORS
OF EXPLOSION UNCONFIRMEI
Chief Officer Nystrom and Unnamed
Crew Member Reported Dead, IN
Wireless to Comparatively Meager
Details Known----Steamer Believed
Total Loss j.

Two men, the chief officer and member of the crew. dead
vessel worth at least 100000 probably total loss is in
brief the story of the Interand freight steamer Hamakua
morning. q.
The of the fire and details of the disaster yet
unknown Up the time the StarBuletn went to press only
the most meager information had reached the steamship
company
wireless message said that the chief officer, George
Nystrom, and an unnamed member of the dead
Rumors about the city this morning that expos
had occurred but far known there is confirmation
this anything except conjecture for its foundation
The survivors will reach Honolulu by the Claudne early
morning The details of the disaster may not be
known until then.