Evening public ledger. [volume] (Philadelphia [Pa.]) 1914-1942, 1917-07-30
HIGH COURT OF
ENGLISH USAGE
1t Hands Down a Divided Opin-
ion on the Correct Form of an
Evening Ledger Sentence

euitOrS WHO strive 10 Wrlte CorTeCt EHb'
lish.
The other day one of the editoria
writers of the EVENING LEDGER begar
an article with the phrase There are
certain two men," When It was printed
a question arose as to its grammatical
form.
But the phrase was allowed to stand
unchanged in all editions. It was decided
to appeal to the judgment Of experts In
colleges in different parts Of the country
The result indicates that the division oi
opinion among the professors of English
is as great as among those whose bust
ness 1t is to write II.
William II. Crawshaw, A. M, Lift. D..
LID, dean and professor of English
literature in Colgate University, Hamil
ton, N Y, who has written textbook
on English literature and has taught
English composition, decides that the ex
preston is incorrect He writes:
The expression There are certain
two men" seems to me Incorrect although
some Of my friends here think otherwise.
If the article were omitted the expression
might pass muster. though ] should not
think IL happy one. The article, how
ever, distinctly emphasizes the singular
idea, while ARE" and two" are as dis
tinctly plural OF course. there the
analogy of such expressions as There
are a few" and There are good mi NY
There however, few" and many" may
be more easily taken In a collective sense
and regarded as conveying either singu-
lar or a plural idea. Two however,
is more distributive in meaning, and 1t
would be difficult to speak of "a two as
we say "a few" or even as we say "a
thousand" taking the group as a whole.
OF course there still remains the logical
incongruity between ARE" and "a few"
| suspect that the true Justification for
There are few" and There are good
many" is idiomatic usage and not the
possibility Of logically harmonizing the
ideas. You will observe that while we
say There are a good many we do
not say There are n many The for
mcr has become good idiomatic English.
The latter has not justified itself as idom
and is therefore subject to the logical OBJ
lection. The same seems to me to be
true of the expression, There are a
certain two" 1t is bad grammatical logic,
and cannot plead that it is good idiom.
1t may be some day, but I think not yet.
=. S, Your expression involves "A
men" and that is proper only at the end
of a prayer.
The Rev. Francis p. Donnelly S. J..
professor of English in the College of
the Holy Cross. at Worcester, Mass, is
in doubt, but he is inclined to the belief
that the form of words is permissible
He writes:
/ have had some fun with your ques-
ton which | tried on others. Some have
hp iS I1y
and dramatically. Others have de-
clared it defensible Most advise not
using II and 1t may be condemned as
superhuous. There are two men" would
express the idea adequately, especially in
this context. The writer has probably.
working on analogy, made q plural of
There Is a certain man."
The phrase appears awkward to me.
The reason may be that | am expecting
a plural noun after there are" and am
puzzled by "a certain" which commonly
goes with singular noun or a collective
noun. ] start sentence with "a certain
two" and l do not feel the same pause
Another difficulty Is the use of two men
as a collective, especially in the editorial
where the writer takes them at once as
different types 1t seems to me that "a
certain" individualizes and groups. "a
certain two men come every day" sounds
all right to me- but | mean n particular
definite two men whom | do not wish
further to characterize. l seem though
to take them together just as in the ex-
preston ANY two men" These phrases
seem to be extensions of the expression
any two certain two, these two. Gram
marans commonly say that "a" goes
with singular nouns or collective nouns
and they recommend using singular verb,
although they admit that usage justifies
the plural verb. Here, however, the diff
ficulty is rather using "a certain" with
the plural noun where the rule Is to use
certain" with plural and "a certain"
with singular. 1t seems to me that in
this case the rule could be followed,
especially as the writer, as have said,
is not taking them as a pair or couple,
but as separate types. In that case
There are two certain men" might stand
dramatically. Yet, as we do not often
use the phrase, 1t does not come trippingly
on the tongue.
You see that am not dogmatic on this
point but ! would say, II I am forced,
that the phrase, There are a certain
two men," has been defended and so is
defensible, at least by usage and perhaps
also dramatically and logically. Yet
it is awkward and makes close readers
question 1t.
modestly and with Difference to better
heads and to more patient study, that
as the writer is not making a class
of the two men, he is not using "a certain
few, or two. etc." in its accepted meaning.
Josiah H. Penniman, A. B., Phi. D
LID. vice provost and professor @
English literature in the University @
Pennsylvania and author of many article
on literary topics, defends the phras,
which 1t happens was written by ma
who got his education at the Universit,
Professor Penniman, however. did nc
know it. He says:
This sentence is correct grammatically
though 1t seems an awkward way Of con-
veying the idea, whatever the idea was
or is.
Any combination of words may bs
considered and used as the subject OF
a verb, and as such may come under tn,
classification collective noun" II the
meaning warrants 1t. The awkwardness
of the sentence arises from the 'are a.
| combination, which does not in itself
sound right The "a" however. must be
taken with the phase certain two men,
which is equivalent to a collection like
group" A collection may be used with
either singular or plural verb. de
pending on the thought in the writer's
II