New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1915-04-24

A.-There was not. n, -,
Did YOU. then or thereafter down
IN tho time. AZ least, of your return
from Africa. ever publicly attack or
make reference 10 any invisible en-
pire? Aid ever use that phrase
to describe what was attacking 20
Q.-Yos. A.-Not that remember.
Odd you ever make an issue In
any of your campaigns or In any OF
your discourses, speeches or puDlca-
lions. between the time that you en-
tered the Governorship and the time
that YOU retired from the Presidency
and the time that you returned from
Africa, on the existence OF danger OF
an invisible empire?
A.-Yes, but not using the words
%nvisible empire" or invisible govern
ment." But ! attacked the thing not
ably in a message | wrote TO Congress,
| think in the beginning OF the year
1908, and in other messages also, and
in messages in which | advocated the
enactment Of a law making campaign
contributions public. As ! say, when
dwelt upon il il was merely as one
feature, and not the main feature OF
the system against which | was war
ring.
Murphy the real" Leader.
Q.-Now, returning 70 the question
Of the Democratic leadership in New
York State, do you remember when Mr..
Murphy became nominal Democratic
leader? Al don't remember his ever
being nominal leader at all. | under
stood that he was the real leader when
Mr.. Croker-my understanding Is that
after Mr.. Croker went abroad Mr..
Murphy. somewhere about the year
1904 or whereabouts, became the leader
Of the Democratic party in New YORK
City
Q.-Meaning thereby, do you not, the
leader of the Democratic party IN the
state? Any memory is that he was
first the leader of the Democratic party
in New York City, and then gradually
gained such power in the state as TO
become the leader of the Democratic
party in the state. ..
Q.-Can you fix those dates7 Al
can only fix them in general fashion,
and you understand it is as a matter
of common notoriety only that that
can fix them. ! should say that his
dominance in the state began to be
generally admitted in 1906, but am
giving you simply my memory of
thing that l took no particular interest
in.
Q-Isn't it a fact that he really
showed his control in the state at large
in his control of the Buffalo conven-
ton Of 1906? A.-Well, | told you Just
now that this is my memory, but that
| cannot be sure of 1t.
Q.-Do you remember who succeeded
Mr.. Croker in the leadership OF Tam
many Hall? Al have told you that
my belief is it was Mr.. Murphy.
Q.-Can / refresh your memory at
all by reference TO the fact that there
was triumvirate leadership which
succeeded Mr.. Croker, namely, Mr.. Nc
Mahon, Mr.. Nixon and Mr. Sheehan
Al do not know anything about that
Q.-Don't you know how long that
lasted? Al don't know whether II
lasted at ALT may have been a noml-
nal, not a real, leadership. My mem
ory is that Mr.. Murphy had TO do bat
tie with Mr.. McCarren before he got
complete control of New York City,
and then that there was a fight in
which Mr.. "Fingy' COnnors. of Buffalo,
was concerned-but | have forgotten on
which side he was concerned-a that
as a sequel to that fight Mr.. Murphy
grew into dominance in the Democratic
party of the state, but, as ! say, Mr..
Wins, that is merely matter Of com
mon notoriety. | can only give you the
impression that | have.
Machine Combination.
Q-Among other things, am asking
you these questions as a test Of mem
ory Now. did you ever hear or know
of any combination of the kind set out
in the publication of which we com
plain between Democrats and the Re-
publicans in the years 1899 and 1900,
when you were in the Governorship
Al heard Of il and knew Of it.
Q.-Was there such combination
A.-There was. There was such a com
bination agreed to. Whether it went
into effect or not l do not know.
Odd you ever call the attention OF
the people to that combination? Al
did not. | had no proof of it beyond
the statement Of people who would
probably have denied it. II | had made
a statement / should have anticipated
the suit.
Q.-You have always had an ear TO
any statement concerning political mat
ters of this kind, have you not? Al
have had an open ear to receive them,
and then l have tested their proof and
have never repeated them until | was
satisfied that they were true.
Odd you make a test Of the ru-
mors which you heard with regard 10
such an alleged combination in 1899 and
1900? Al did.
Q-What was the result Of your test ?
A.-The result of my test was that
was convinced it did exist.
Q-Then why didn't you tell Il TO
the Legislature and call IL to the atten-
ton of the people if 1t was an evil Of
the kind that you complained of in the
publication of which we now complain ?
Al they had succeeded in blocking
the franchise tax bill and the removal
of Payn as they actually succeeded in
blocking the primary legislation |
would have made the same fight in 1898
that / have made now.
Q.-You refer to primary legisla-
ton. There was no such legislation on
then. A.-The primary legislation
under Mr.. Hughes
Q.-But that had no relation or rel
evancy to the question of 1900 and
1899. A 1t answers your question
exactly as to why ! did not make an
open issue because it did not come to
a head
Q.-You couldn't make an open
issue? At didn't come 10 a head.
Q.-Now, there was no issue in ex-
istence IN regard to primary legisla-
ton? Al could not make an open
issue-but that is not what am talk
ing Of say that if they had put
through effectively the bipartisan
combination, which | had reason TO be-
lleve was contemplated. and had de-
teated the franchise tax bill or re-
moval, or blocked the removal. Of Mr..
Payn, as IL was threatened they would
do, | would have made the same fight
then that ! have actually made in the
case Of the Legislature blocking the
two mcasurca OF NJ uucLna