New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1915-04-22

"'"NS may kV N"'i WV iNSN may
stand.
Q-By Mr.. Bowers YOU have a
subsequent interview with MIR Sulzer
on the subject Of the condition of af-
fairs in the state? A.-Yes. sir.
Q.-When was that? A. That was
in or about June. 1914.
Q.-What happened then? AIR
Sulzer came out to my house and dis
cussed his
Q. Well. did he discuss the rotten
ness Of the states government? A.
He old; discussed among other things,
the rottenness Of the states govern
ment, am not allowed to speak of
anything
The Court No. Just that What did
he say on that subject?
Witness asked me If had seen
his state papers. and told him that
| had. and he asked me TO read GER
tain papers. and he either asked me
if l had seen Mr.. Hcnnessy or If |
would see Mr. Honesty cannot re-
member which. | saw Mr. Hennessy
and paid much more heed to Mr.. Hen
messy than to Mr.. Sulzer.
Mr.. lvins-l object TO that part Of
it, THAT he paid more heed to Mr.
Hennessy than to Mr.. Sulzer."
Hennessy Goes TO Oyster Bay.
Odd you see Hennessy after that?
Al cannot tell whether | saw him
after that or before. II was after our
first conversation in 1913, but whether
it was after or before my conversation
with Mr.. Sulzer in 1914, l have for
gotten.
Odd Mr.. Sulzer hand you a book
called Public Papers of Governor Sui
IL uAN
tion TO it. | had the book already. |
spoke to him Of certain things | had
read in it,
Q.-And now. after your interview
with Mr.. Hennessy what took place
The Court First. when?
Witness Nh Hennessv came down
to see me some time in June, 1914.
Q.-What is his name. John Hen
messy? AIR John A. Hennessy. He
came down to see me some time in
June. 1914. 1t is barely possible that
it was the very end of May or the
very beginning of July, but it was prob
ably certainly in 1914, after
came back from South America, and
before July %.
Hennessy's Description of Corruption.
I had known of Mr.. Hennessy for
some time Mr.. Hennessy told me that
he had been appointed by Mr.. Sulzer
TO q POSITION forgot exactly what
it was-which made il his official duty
10 investigate the running of the state
government, and he told me that the
condition of rottenness in the state
government detied belief that he could
not have imagined. without having
made the official investigation that
he had made, that there could eX
list such corruption ard mismanage-
ment in the state government. That he
had investigated the high roads-speci
flying to me the contracts in certain
counties, executed under what were
called the expedited bills"
These were special bills put through
the Legislature, as he informed me,
during the term of Governor Dix. One
bill was in a county of which the Re-
publican machine had control, and one
bill in the county in which the Demo
cratic machine had control-half a
dozen bills on each side; that the cor
ruption came under some form Of sup
Elementary work where the contract
was not competitive; that there was
also, and had been, frightful corrup-
tion in the prisons, frightful corrup
tion in the canal and in the State
Architects Office, instancinG case after
case, where he would give me the
names cannot pretend to remember
the names that he gave me; of the
padding of the rolls where no-where
the man did not exist, although the
salaries were drawn by somebody else;
of the charging for rock for roads
when it was not rock at all, but just
stone picked up right beside the road
Of the collecting Of assessments on the
salaries.
Mr.. Ivins-I should like to interrupt
the witness to object to the continue
ton of this speech unless Mr.. Barnes
in some way is connected with this
state Of affairs.
The court-The charge is that be-
cause of the corrupt alliance between
the Republican and Democratic parties
there was corruption in the state gov
eminent. Now so far as that is con-
cerned the defendant can do two
things. He can prove in the first place
that there was corruption as part of
their case. Of course, it is not of any
importance - his justification, unless
subsequently connected with Mr..
Barnes. In the same way they can
prove that he thought if he did that
there was corruption in mitigation Of
his damages. l think it is competent
for that purpose.
Mr.. Ivins-So far as he thought this
corruption in the matter of mitigation
l do not object to his continuing
with it.
The courtAI understand he is simply
giving the conversation with Mr.. Hen
messy.
Both Machines Worked Together.
Witness, resuming Hennessy
stated that as regards masses of en-
ployes a regular deduction had been
taken out of their pay envelope often
before they were paid and turned over
to local bosses. He gave me the
names; he said that most Of the Off
Gals who had been guilty of this cor
ruption were Democrats, but a great
many of them were Republicans. He
gave me the names of some of the Re
publcans and the Offices of others,
naming the men, Republican and Dem
ocratic, of officers. Republican or Dem
ocratic, who had been called guilty of
the corruption, and stating that the
corruption had gone on in such fashion
that a man obtaining money from the
public employees would turn it over to
the local Democratic committeeman
under Democratic rule and the same
man turn it over to the local Repub-
lican committeeman under Republican
rule, and that this condition of affairs
could not be remedied until there was
a movement to smash up both of the
machines, and his object in telling it
to me, he informed me
He informed me his object in telling
il to me was so that we might get up
non partisan citizens movement on
state issues and in order TO throw out
both the old party machines, because
= -. oorId not got rid Of tho cor