davidaulloa/AmericanStories huggingface dataset:
The Washington times., 1915-02-14
Scott Questioned
on COnley's Story.

Q. You asked him about that. about
the screams? A. Yes. sir; ne said he
ala not hear any one scream while he
was sitting on the box down stairs.
He said he didn't hear anything at all
that day.
Q. What was the first he said he
knew about any body-about being a
dead body UP there? A. He said that
Frank whistled for him to come up
there, and he went
=. Did he tell you that Mr. Frank
SAID he had hit her too hard and her
head hit against something and killed
her. and that be had dropped her back
there" A. My memory is not clear on
that.
.. Read IT over right there Glands
Cenley's final affidavit to ScotD. What
ala he say? Didn't he say that Frank
said he took up a little girl back
there, and had let her fall and her
head had hit against something; he
didn't know what II was? A. Yes, sir
= He did not say anything about
The Washington times., 1915-02-14

talked to Mr.. Frank on Tuesday (after
the murder), on the steps, or middle
way Of the third or fourth floor, or aid
he say he talked with him on the
fourth floor? A. The fourth moor. /
think. ..l
Q. Did he tell you that Mr.. FRANK
said In that conversation: "If you had
come back on Saturday and done what
] told you to do with II there wouldn't
have been any trouble? A. No. SIR.
=. Mr.. Scott, describe to me a. nearly
e you can the scene between you and
Conley when you undertook to convince
MIN that you knew he could write.
A. called him up to Chief Lanford's
once and told him to sit down at q
table. l gave him pencil and a tablet
ana told him we underwood he had
told Detective Black that he couldn't
write. but that now we knew he could.
although We were not going to tell him
the source OF our information, and we
wanted him to write as we told him.
He sat there and looked at us While we
were talking. We told him that We had
full Information Of the fact that he could
write and that II he hesitated we would
produce that evidence. So I told him
now to write as I dictated. to write. and
he picked up the pencil and wrote i'm
mediately.
O. You convinced him that you knew
he could write. and then he wrote?
A. Yes. sir.
O. He denied that very morning that
ne could write? A. Yes. sir.
The Washington times., 1915-02-14

@. Did you ever try to get him to tel
about that little mesh bag? A. did
yes, sir; went after him pretty strong
q. Did he always deny he knew any.
thing about that? A. Denied ever hav.
ing seen It.
Q. He did not intimate to you at that
time that he saw II in Franks Office
and that he saw Frank put It in the
safe? A. No. sir.
@. Did you ask him about the para.
sol? A. Yes, sir.
@. Did he say he had seen it. or deny
that he had seen It? A. He didn't tell
me anything about It,
The reader will recall that Con-
ley. when he went on the stand.
said he saw the Phagan girls
mesh bag on Franks desk and
saw Frank put 1t in the safe
Why, after he had accused Frank
OF the crime and involved himself
as accessory. he denied seeinE the
purse-if he did see twas one
Of the most inexplicable features
OF his strange string Of af1dav,ts.
O. In this last statement, he didn t
say he wrote two notes or four notes?
A. No. sir.
a. He said that he wrote only one
note? A. Yes, sir.
@. When did you cease communicat-
ing with Conley? a. On May 10
Q. And you did not see him after
that? A. No, sir.
@. This was the first time he said
anything to you about money? A. That
last statement was when he said some
thing about two hundred dollars
Q In speaking about this unfortunate
little girl. Mary Phagan. did he tell you
he thought her name was Mary Per-
kins? A. No. sir.
@. Did he say anything 'about Mary
Perkins? a. No. sir.
.. Did he ever say to YOU tnat he
saw little girl that he called Mary
Perkins 60 up stairs and that he heard
The Washington times., 1915-02-14
Solicitor Asks if
Girl Ever Was in Jail.
Direct examination by Soil.

DUett eTumfnot0n 0y Solicitor D0rSeU,
Q. How many times have you been
In jail? A. I never have been there.
.. You have never been in Jail at
all? A. No. sir.
Q. Did you 'ver see this man right
mere .:nS:ca;:3i, ,spu'v saerif At
:achad - - --,nc.:. r.. ..Eo.>- We.
sir.
y Didn't ne .et YOU out Of ,aili
a. No. sir; he iidrr
". fhts nan "Sht tere. ". A. Gar
ner? How about that?
Mr. Arnold: Tell ii you did. Admit
anything II 1t is true.
A. He did not; he WAS not the one
that did IT.
@. Who did get you out of Jail? A.
Mr.. Smith.
Q. What were you in Jail for? A. Jus,
somebody told tale on me-
Q. Now. Miss Daisy, what tail wa.
II you were in? A. don't know, sir:
1t was one UP here.
.. You don't know what Jail you wers
IN? All right; come down.
Redirect examination BY Mr.. Arnold
@. You were put in jail, were you? A,
Yes, sir.
Q. Were you tried? A. No. sir, I never
was tried.
@. What did they ever do with Won,
A. l don't know: my lawyer got me out.
@. Did YOU have to pay ANYTHING,
A. paid my lawyer.
Q. Did YOU pay anything besides your
lawyer? a. No. sir.
Q. Did you ever come In any court
about 1t or not' A. No sir.
The Washington times., 1915-02-14
The Mesh Bag Story.

her footsteps goinG to the ONCE? A.
No. sir u
Or the stand Coney said he
saw little girl go up stairs
whom he had known as Mary
Perkins" and that this proved TO
be the dead girl.
u Did you press him as to whether he
saw Mary Phagan that day or not?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Finally he did tell you that he
saw her up stairs. dead, but did not
see her go up stairs? A. That he saw
her dead body.
.. Did he ever tell you that he heard
lady scream In that factory? A. No,
sir.
Q. Did you ask him about that?
A. Yes, sir.
The Washington times., 1915-02-14
Says Negro Told
of Meeting Frank.

O.. He said after he bought the
whisky and started for the Capital City
Laundry that he met Mr.. Frank at the
corner OF Nelson and Forsyth streets? ?
A. Yes. sir.
Q. He told you that was the frst tlmc
he had seen Mr.. Frank that morning ?
A. Yes. sir.
Q. Did he tell you anything about
Frank making an arrangement to stamp
for him. and for him to lock the door I?
A. No. sir.
Q. Did he tell you anything about
seeing little Monteen Slower? A. No,
sir.
Q. He told you the folks he did see.
but did not tell you about little Monteen
Slower? A. No. sir.
Q. He did not tell you about seeing
Mary phagan that day? A. No, sir.
.. He told you he did not see her,
didn't he? A. Yes. sir.
O. He didn't say he saw Lemmie
Quinn? A. No. sir.
Q. He told you ne did not see Mrs.
White? A. Yes. sir.
y. He said Mr.. Frank whistled for
Eim and as soon as he got up stairs
FRANK took him by the arm, like he
was escortng a lady, and escorted him
ipto his office? A. Yes. sir.
.. Then he told about writing the
notes! A. Yes. sir.
V. How many notes did he say he
wrote? A. believe he said he wrote
on white paper three different times.
T. At that time he still denied that he
had anything to do with Mary Phagan
or knew anything about her death?| A.
Yes, sir.
.. He denied seeing her body or know
ing anything about It? A. Yes, sir.
.. He told YOU that the reason he
washed his shirt WAS because he had
Yes, sir.
9, On May 20 you had another talk
with him? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long did you talk with him ?
A. Most all day. guess.
O. You gave him mathis and vesner.
both that day; talked to him ali day?
A. Yes, sir.
q. Didn't you point out the things in
ms story that were improbable. and tell
A. Yes, sir.
The Washington times., 1915-02-14

Frank having hit her and hit her too
hard? A. No. sir.
@. Did he tell you that while he
was sitting there on the box. on the
hrst floor he heard somebody runnins n
from the metal department on tiptoes
20 Franks ONCE? A. No. sir.
y. And then some one running back
to the metal department on tiptoas?
A. No. sir.
q. i believe you said he did not s.y
anything about Mr.. Frank stampinr =
on the hoor? A. He said he did not
hear any stamping.
Q. Did he tell that Mr.. Frank
stamped; that he heard Mr.. Frank
stamp INST and he sort Of went OF 10
sleep again, and then that the next
thing he heard was the whistlinr? /?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did he tell you anything about
Mr.. Frank telling him how to lock
the door, instructing him how to lock
IT. and on . signal to open 1t again;
ala he tell you anything about that?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did he tell you that Frank. wh.n
he Got to the top Of the stem. h.
found Frank there with a cord in his
hands? A. No, sir.
q: Mr.. Scott. did you find any cord
In the factory? A. ! saw il. hut 7
never picked 1t up; I saw plenty Of It
around.
.. 1t was not restricted to any one
place: In the factory? A. No, sir
.. Yon saw one piece In the base
ment? A, Yes. sir.
.. Did he tell you when he went In
to see Mr.. Frank anything about his
eyes being funny, and about him
stamping around when he nrst went
UP the steps" A. No. sir.
his face being red? A. No, sir.
Q. Let me call your attention IN
these statements, and ! wish you 10
state II he told you any such thlnxs-
did he tell you: After I rot 10 the
The Washington times., 1915-02-14

her alive at all, denied that he
saw her until he was sent back
to where her dead body lay IN the
metal room.
But. Jim. II you were watch
ing there on the first floor for
Mr.. Frank. as you say you were,
you must have seen the little girl
go up the stairs" you can almost
hear the detectives and Solicitor
Dorsey telling him.
So 1t comes that at the trial
Jim declares he did see the little
PhaSan girl go up stairs.
Scott again testifies that they
questioned him about Monteen
Stover. No. he did not see her 60
into the pencil factory, he told
them emphatically. He had not
seen her at all. He did not know
her. Once more there is need to
revise his story SO 1t will At the
States theory of the crime. II
jim did not see any OF those peo-
pie go up there. the jury will be
inclined to believe that Jim
wasn't there watching for Frank,
after all. and that he is fully as
sra ceful a liar on the stand AZ
when appending his signature to
affidavits.
Of course, when Jim IL called
to testify he tells the court he
saw little Monteen enter the fac
tory. 90 UP stairs and come back
down. He could not be mistaken.
He remembers her tennis shoes
and raincoat. He is particularly
illuminating when he remarks
that "she was up there quite a
while--not very long while.
ether" That was as near to the
tine as he could be persuaded to
approach.
Scott went after Conley stronx
about MARY Phagans missing
mesh bag. the detective testines.
Conley declared he never had seen
1t: didn't see Frank with It and
'!idn't know what had become of
~ All this is after Conley has
branded Frank as the murderer,
remember. II Conley was telling
the truth and had seen the mesh
bag In the place he later described
there was no reason under Heaven
why he should not have told the
detectives at this time. when they
grilled him for nearly a full day.
The Mesh Bag Story.
What did Conley testify when he
went on the stand? One almost
could guess II he had followed the
negro In his preceding series OF
lies. When Solicitor Dorsey asked
him II he ever had seen the mesh
bag Conley answered. sure, he had
seen 1t OIL Mr.. Franks desk and
had seen Mr.. Frank take 1t and
put 1t in the safe. That mesh bag
testimony"~as the fnal dramatic
. touch to Jim Conley's testimony.
1t had been held in reserve by the
solicitor to spring on the Jurors
The Washington times., 1915-02-14

going to get OUT. and he decided TO tell
You the whole truth? A. Yes. sir.
u. In that conversation he still stuck
10 the proposition that he went from
ieters street by way OF Nelson street? :?
A. Yes. sir.
=, And that he did not 70 to the
FACTORY about or 7.3O or 8 O'Clock ?
A. No. sir.
Q. And In that statement he said
nothihg about Frank asking hin, to
Wa'ch on the nrst floor. about closing
Not that ! recall.
q, In this last statement, did he saw
aNything about seeing little Monteen
stover go up the steps? a. He denied
seeing her then.
~ lie did not say he saw Mary
Phasan go up-he denied that? A. Yes,
sir.
The Washington times., 1915-02-14

q. Did a little girl get on your car at
that place on that day? A. Yes, sir.
9. Was she Mary Phagan? A. Yes,
sir.
.. About what is the distance, would
YOU say, by the way the car runs. the
turns and the crooks In the street from
Lindsay up to Broad street? A, About
mile. and half or two miles, /
reckon.
9. And you made frequent stops. of
course? \. Yes, sir.
@. What time did you get to the CEN
tire Of the city--Marietta and Broad
streets? A. Why, it was-the schedule
was l2.07ia.
=. Were you about on time? A. We
The Washington times., 1915-02-14
Tells HON. Conley Stuck to False State
ments in Story Told Police
on Nav "a.
on Nav "a.

notes on Friday for Frank would not
90 down. that that showed prsmedita-
ton, and that that could not be &C.
cepted. he changed that? A. Yes. sir.
Q. He put 1t on Saturday instead OF
Friday? A. Yes, sir.
Q. He told you he was going to make
his second and last affidavit, didn't he?
A. Yes sir.
@ He told you he had made up his
mind to tell the whole truth. didn't he?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. But in that statement he still re-
peated that he got up at home between
D and $50 and ate breakfast about D.3O.
washed his face after ne got up, ate
some steak and liver and then went to
Peters street? A. Yes. sir
Q. And told about buying the beer at
different saloons and shooting dice and
buying whisky from a man? A. Yes,
The Washington times., 1915-02-14
Mary Phagan Didn't Leave Car at Point
Young Epps Said, w. M. Mat
theWs, M0torman, SWears.

Direct examination by Mr.. Arnold.
Q. What is your name? A. W. NJ.
Matthews.
Q. Mr.. Matthews. where do you work ?
A. am notorman on the English ave-
nue. car line.
Q. On the 2sth of April of this year,
on the English avenue line.
Q. On that morning do you recall
passing Lindsay street about 10 min
utes before II. ! believe? 4. Yes, sir,
about 10 minutes to T.
q. How did that compare with your
schedule time? 4. The schedule is due
along there about that time. We were
running about on schedule all day.
The Washington times., 1915-02-14
fCsatlnuea from Precedins PAGE,

uEUuo Kfece01n4 PnIeD
Detectives? A. Yes, sir. y"
=. Mr.. Frank gave You that informa
Yes, sir. W ''''' "a
,.0. Mr. Scott, did you make inquiry a
ing pencil factory as to whether Conle,
co1ld write? A. No. sir.
iou never inquired OF Frank or
n"oody ut the pencil factory whsther
ne could write or not? A. No. sir,
oion dos that personally.
". When did you hrst discover that
ne could write? A. On Sunday, May IL.
Q. hand you sheet Of paper pur-
porting to be signed by James Conley
and dated May IL. 1913. and / will get
you to examine that. (Hands paper to
witness) Were you present when that
statement was taken? A. Yes, sir, I
wrote 1t myself
q! Who furnished you the Sllesed
Facts In this statement? A. Conley.
Q. Now, In that statement he con-
landed that he did not go to the pencil
factory at all on the day Of the mur-
der? A. Yes. sir.
ment about his acts during the whole
dsy! a. His movements that day.
g. Which didn't involve him being at
the factory at ALL? A. No, sir,
9. He told you he rot up between o
and $50 and left home about 10. 30 and
went to Peters street and into some
saoons ana drank beer? A. Yes, sir.
-. Ana bought some whisky at II
q. m? A. Yes, sir.
g. And went into the Butt-In saloon
ana played dice and won 10 cents, and
went into the Early saloon and bought
some more beer and wine, and then
went home at $50? A. Yes. sir.
9. And that he stayed at home with
out returning to town again? A. Yes,
Q. wish you would. look--I will get
You to refresh your memory as to
whether Schiff and barley, at the fac
tory. told YOU Conley could write, by
reading that A. I was out of town at
the time and didn't get back until that
sunday morning, and they told me when
I got back.
Q. They told you at the pencil fac
tory! A. Yes. sir.
O. You knew that the information
came from the pencil factory that he
could write? A. Yes. sir, on May 49,
Seeks to Overthrow
Prosecutions Contention.
Q. That is what I really was trying
TO 6ot out Of you. A. Yes, SIR
+ Solicitor Dorsey sough to show
BY q previous witness that Frank
The Washington times., 1915-02-14
and the pencil factory people know
ing that the negro could write,
had tried to keep this information

\ ana the pencil FACTORY people know
ing that the negro could write,
had tried to keep this information
from the detectives. ........-
Q. On May IL. you dictated to Conley7
A. Yes, cir.
Q. You made him write these words.
THAT long. tall. black negro did Il BY
himself'? A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long did 1t take him to write
| that? A. dictated each word sinsly
and separately, OF course, and I should
Judge 1t took more than six or seven
minutes.
~ The reader will recall that Con-
| ley swore he wrote the entire four
! notes at franks dictation in about
! two and a half minutes.
70. You gave him each word sepa.
| rately and he wrote It? A. Yes, sir.
Q. You were present when ne was
brought before Mrs. White. when Mrs.
White was seeking to identify Conley?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was his behavior at that
time? A. At that time we had Mrs.
White look over q bunch Of twelve
negroes, among whom was Copley. He
was chewing his lips as though he were
cigarette In his fingers. He seemed
to be very excited At the time. He
could not keep bis feet still. and his
cigarette he didn't seem to know how
to hold onto 1t.
@. Didn't he again on May 1s utterly
deny to you that he had any connection
whatever with the murder Of Mary
Phagan. and stated positively that he
was not at the pencil factory Saturday,
April 28! A. Yes, sir.
Q. What effort At that time did you
make to get him to make a statement
to you? A. We talked very stronx to
him and tried even to get confession
that he was responsible for the murder.
l remember I was hamaering at him.
@. When you and Black were after
him that day one Of you would curse
him and the other would pretend to be
his friend? Didn't one Of you wheedls
him and the other abuse and curse him7
A. We used little profanity.
Q. Cursed him out? A. Yes. cir.
Q. You didn't get anything from him,
did you? A. No. sir.
Q. He made you a clear statement
that he was not at the pencil factory !
and knew nothing about the murder7 |
A. Yes, sir.
@. He did that after you knew se |
could write? A. Yes. sir.
@. How long a seance or sitting did
you give him Sunday. you and Black J
both7 A. About two hours.
@. You had another conversation with /!
this negro on May "a? A. Yes, sir.
The Washington times., 1915-02-14
Defense Brings Out Further Discrep.
ancies Between Negro's Statements
and Testimony.

G. You would look over the story and
anything that would look to you out
Of place, you would tell him that tina t
wouldn't do, or that that was not true
a. Yes, sir.
.. Then he made you that last state
ment and, after having looked it over,
YOU didn't wish to make any further
suggestion about 1t? a. No, sir. not at
that time.
Q. You stayed with Conley that day
until q p m? \. Yes, sir.
g. You started early and plowed
with him the whole day? a. Yes, sir,
q. He then made you the statement
Of May 20? a. Yes, sir.
Q. Now this last talk you had with
HIM. he said he did not tell YOU the
truth up to that time because he was
eApecting Mr.. Frank to get out and
help him. and he found he was not
The Washington times., 1915-02-14
Solicitor Dorsey
Examines Detective.

EIdmtnattos by Solicitor Dorsey
9. Did you get any information about
this man being able to write from
the National Pencil Company people
A. Personally, no.
q. Did you or not get your own In
formation from entirely outside sources
and wholly disconnected from the Ma.
tfonal Pencil Company? A. Yes. sir.
O. To whom did you-to what city
onic!al did you first communicate any
thing about Mrs. Whites statemen,
about seeing a negro down there on the
drst floor Of the factory? A. My Inn
preston is that I told 1t In my many
conversations with Black and Chief
Rosser.
Q. Wasn't it .on May or before
you ever told Bass Rosser? A. could
not state the specific date; It was q
short time after April 2S.
@. How long was 1t before the prose-
cution knew about this big stick
proposition?
The objection Of Attorney Ros-
ser was sustained by the Court.
Solicitor Dorsey here is referring
to the club found on the first floor
near the elevator by Detective L.
p. Whitfield. one Of Scotts opera
ttVe, ABOUT TWO weeks after
Scott and other detectives had
searched the same area. 1t was
the solicitors contention that the
club was plant" by friends Of
Frank. who hoped to throw sus-
picion on Conley.
Q. Around IN that area where this
stiok was found on May IS. did you
make search around in there? A.
Yes. sir.
Q. Did you make Z thorough sea rch /?
A. made q very thorough search.
Q. Were you ever denied access to
Frank. or did you have access to him?
A. ] saw him in Jail last on May g.
Later / was denied access to him by
Sheriff Mangum.
Q. Mr.. Scott. want to ask you
about the length Of time Jim Conley
took to- write this note when you die
tated II right out to him without CIV.
ing 1t q word At . time. after ne de-
cided to write. A. 1t took him about
two or three minutes then.
Conley testified on the stand
that II took him only about two
and half minues to write all
four notes.
The Washington times., 1915-02-14
Ssys Negro Didn't
Tell About Body.

Q; pa you question him closely
| q. Did he tell you he had told h.
whole truth? A. Yes. sir.
Q. He told you II was his last and
anal statement and that nobody could
get him to add anything to It. because
there was nothing to add! A. Yes
cir.
q. He didn't tell tia. hs went back
there and ne found the little girl
ana that she had = rope around her
nsckf 4. No. cir.
| Q. He didn't tell you that she had
. niecs Of underolothing around her
neck? A. No, sir.
q. Dia he tell you absut wrsppins
her In . place Of cloth? A. He said
Frank told him to get a piece OF
crocus sacking.
q. Did he tell you whom he came
back and told Mr.. Frank the girl
was dead that Mr. Frank said:
that undicating)? A. No. sir, not In
that statement.
@. will get you to state II he sal
anything to you about slipper being
up stairs by ths body. Of 4 ribbon and
her hat. A. believe he mentioned the
slipper and hat, but not the ribbon.
Q. He never mentioned the ribbon d?
4. No, sir.
Q. DID you ask him what became
! Of the ribbon around the hat? A. He
said he didn't know and didn't see it.
q. Did you ask him whether or not
there was any thought Of burning the
about that? a. Yes, sir. and he said
mo" he did not know anything about
that.
@. He said that was not true? The n
did he or not tell you this: After
. while Mr.. Frank looked at me and
said: I will tell you the best way:
60 down there in the basement and
see that package there In front Of the
furnace, and you take 4 lot Of trash
and mako . hre and burn it'"? A.
No. sir.
that he promised to come back in about
forty minutes and burn the body, ana
he went to sleep and forgot It? A. No.
| sir.
Q. Did he tell you ne was afraid to
90 down there and tried to get Mr..
Frank to 80 down with him. and Frank
said there wasn't any use for both OF
them to 20? A. No. sir.
Q. Did he tell YOU he said to Mr..
Frank: "YotI are a white man and you
done It. and I'm not going down there
and burn It myself? A. No. sir.
Q. He didn't say anything to you
about the burning7 A. No. sir.
q. Did he tell you that Mr.. Frank
had arranged to give his bond and run
him away? A.. No. sir.
Q. Did he say anything to you about
Frank wanting to know for certain, II
he was going to come back and burn
the body, and n he was not he was
going to take those things (referrtnS to
the notes) and 20 down there and put
them by the body? A. No, sir.
@. whereabouts did he tell you ne
The Washington times., 1915-02-14
ULES MEDICAL EXPERT FOR TEEE-D DEFENSE

top Of the steps, he asked me: Did
you see that little girl that passed
Aionr hsre = while sgor and I told
she come back again, and then saw
another come along there and she
hasn't como sack down, and he says: I:
We'll, that one you say didn't come
back down, she come into my ONCE a
while ago and wanted to know son,e-
thiAE about her work, and I went
back thsSe I'd see II the little girrs
work had come ana struck
her. and 1usss I bit her too hard.
ana she fell ana hit her head against
something: don't know how bad
she got hurt: Of course. you know I
amt built like other men?' A. No, sir
q Did he ever tell you anything
about that? A. No, sir