The sun. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1833-1916, 1915-05-06

and in the very years covering the bic
printing operations.
The testimony was received. therefore.
as in mitigation Of the alleged libel.
MIR Roosevelt" began Mr. Bowers,
twill you state what conversations. II
any. you had with Mr.. Barnes in 1899
and in 1900 as to the proprety and
nature OF bosses and as to the domina-
ton Of the machine?''
II had more than one such conversa-
ton with MIR. Barnes" replied the Colo
mel. turning FIRST toward Justice Andrews
and then toward the jury. THE par
ticular points have in mind were
brought up after the franchise tax mat
tiers and before Mr.. Payn was removed
from office. ! should say land here the
mind Of the witness seemed to be track
ing back with meticulous carel that II
was in the late spring of 1899 and again
at the end OF 1899. or at the beginning
OF 1900.
Necessity for Machine.
The conversations were about the
necessity for the existence of "A machine
in party government. They took place
sometimes at the Executive Mansion in
Albany. in the Governors Chamber, In
the secretary's chamber and in tn.
executive offices at the Capitol At such
times We were entirely alone. There
were other conversations in the ordinary
reception room of the Governors Cham
Der. when other people were In the room.
| remember also that We held one con-
vers,tion on the train from Albany II
New York prior TO the appointment Of
Mr.. payn's successor"
William l.. Barnum between whom
and the Colonel there Is not an atom OF
AVAILABILITY. the same Mr.. Barnum who
questioned the Colonel In the early part
OF the trial in about the same tone and
words he would have addressed to Al
offender In police court. was up al
once with objections lie demanded tina,
the witness fix accurately the time and
place Of the conversations. Justice An
drews reminded Mr.. Barnum that the
Colonel had already said he couldn't
absolutely locallze tho conversations
and permitted the witness to continue
The substance of these converse
TONS said Colonel Roosevelt. was
that Mr.. Barnes told me It was neces.
sary that the head OF the organization
should have complete control OF the or
eanIzation.
Albany County as Example.
HE gave Albany county as an ex.
ample. lie said that II was impossible
that the rifIran could he allowed IA
go on In politics without damage Ia the
Government, unless they had u leader
| do not recall that Mr.. Barnes used
the term boss am inclined TO think
he used the word leader lie said thai
the riffran could not be trusted &c
handle political affairs with propriety
He said they would so misconduct
themselves that the Government coulC
not go on.
He told me mat II wasn't necesssr,
ordinarily for boss to issue orders tc
men in the organization. to legislator,
or to public officials. because organi'
cation men. leg slators and official,
found out for themselves very speedily
and without the boss needing To say q
word, that II WAS Impossible for then
TO get consideration for their bills III
to get examinations for themselves OF
10 get any campaign funds unless they
did what they were expected to do.
He told me that they quickly learned
that IL was to their interests to find on
what the organization wanted and {,
do IL.
..'yn,, kpnw ,ourselS n, pooseya,,
he said to me. that Senator Plat
doesn't bully. lie doesn't have TO. Tn,
man who wants to go ahead for him
self finds out that he cannot do so un
less he does what the boss asks il 4
not necessary 10 give orders 1t n
clearly understood that the men VIII,
organization standing by them II Il
understood that the man who doesn'
do what he is told gets punished"