The sun. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1833-1916, 1915-12-28
Most Representative Gathering of Sportsmen Ever As
sembled Struggles to Find Way of Defining an
Amateur-Ideas Widely Divergent.
CONFERENCE MAY BECOME ANNUAL AFFAIR
Summer Baseball, Summer Camp Coaching and Capt.
t~ahzation of Athletic Fame Denounced-To Meet
Again Thursday and Also Month Later.

As a result OF the conference yesterday
afternoon Of the most representative COL
lection OF amateur rportsmen ever as
seinbled for an exchange Of views. there
Il hope that the large question Of what
constitutes an AMATEUR will be solved
and the governing bodies Of the coun-
try will fall in line with a national
definition that eventually may extend
throughout the world.
In answer to the call Of the executive
committee of the Intercollegiate Asso-
c!a,ion Of Amateur Athletes Of America
delegates from the ruling associations
attended the session at the Hotel Astor
TO consider suggestions framed by the
collegians as to what should be consid-
cred infractions OF the amateur rules.
the penalty hitting for such attractions
and the opportunities for reinstatement
10 good standing.
Positive views were expressed by most
Of those present and included In the
roster were men authorized to speak for
the following sports and pastimes: Golf,
lawn tennis, fencing. skating. revolver
shooting. Playground. Boy Scouts. bas-
kethall, soccer. football and track ath-
btcs.
All Expectations Surpassed.
That the meeting was a success be-
yond the dreams Of the promoters was
the sentiment of Chairman Gustavus T.
Kirby. Romeyn Berry. W. F.. Garcelon.
Barlow $. Weeks and others who have
been Identified with amateur sport for
years. 1t was not expected that anything
concrete would come out Of the meeting
Yesterday blt hpfpre tho pnaetinp al
,ourned TO meet next Thursday after
noon an open discussion had proved the
need of some solid ground OF estimating
an amateur and the willingness OF the
leading organizations to accept any rea-
sonable definition that the present con-
gress may suggest. Thu prevailing idea
was that the matter was too big a one to
settle offhand and that the meeting next
Thursday would be followed by one II
month later at which the suggestions
offered by the I. c. A.. A. A. A. would
BE- adopted with very few changes.
Perhaps the most remarkable part Of
the proceedings was that the leaders In
three sports confessed that they were
not satisfied with the amateur conditions
that prevailed under their adininistra-
tons. 1t was plainly expressed that
cases were known In which well known
amateurs had capitalized their prowess
So pc 1870 tS 49,
had still remained amateurs. IN the
other hand. there WAS a sentiment that
many innocent parties had become VIC
Tins Of the agitation against ummer
baseball n summer camps and that
careful discrimination was necessary to
prevent injustice to the young collegian
in drafting a new law Of amateurism
for keeps.
With so many sports represented 1t
may we'll be imagined that widely di-
vergent views were presented. DIR. Reg
inald II. Sayre. speaking on behalf of
the mite states Revolver Association.
frankly admitted that men In good stand
ing in his association competed regularly
for money. L. l.. Mockler defended the
rlaying Of amateurs and professionals
together on soccer teams, while DR..
Graeme NJ. Hammond, On behalf of the
Amateur Fencers League Of America.
was strongly against money in any form
and declared that the amateur definition
could not be made too strict to be
adopted by his league.
One side Quixsed by Another.
Under such conditions II was rather
amusing to see the speakers for one
sport put on the grill by advocates OF
another. The pet weakness Of any one
organization was chosen for a series OF
AbtCAl'lis, u ttt'S iiikSA ",AS
conducted with the best of humor. and
In some instances those questioned
freely admitted the need of reform and
asked the advice OF the conference to
bring about a change.
Perhaps the length to which the pres
ent conference will go was Indicated by
W. 7. Garcelon Of Harvard, who spoke
for the National Collegiate Association.
which has acted as an advisory body
on college baseball. football and bas-
ketball. His address came near the
end of the proceedings. after many con-
fct!ng views of amateurism had been
expressed and battled over 10 a certain
degree. Mr.. Garcelon pointed out the
varying needs of different sports and
suggested that the matter In hand was
TOO weighty 10 be disposed of entirely
by next Thursday. BY that time IT
might be possible to agree on a general
plan and he considered 1t wise that af-
Ter such preliminary agreement the dele
gates went back to their associations,
talked the matter over and met again.
say in a months time. TO evolve a gen.
oral definition OF an amateur.
Even when that had been done. MT.
oarcelon minated that II would be nee
'ssary for every sport to make It's
special exceptions to the general rule.
lie made a specific illustration OF soccer
football. "A game which he said would
b. II great value to his country but
witch at the present time would not be
able 20 withstand the same rule with
regard 20 team competition as could
otacJ established sports.
All agreed on Many Things.
NJ. Garcelon pointed out that much
zoo would he lone by the establish
ment ~ "a general rule for an amateur.
Srd hat II would be wise for a confer
enoc similar 10 that at which they were
present TO be held every year for an
interchange OF Views. One governing
NOdy might learn from another and
eventually a definition might be obtained
Wat would be satisfactory to all. He
tod the delegates that there were GER
tan offences that all were agreed in
lm.-al to amateur sport, such as COM
tetirg under an assumed name or COM
Ie'irg for profit.
T0cre were differences OF opinion as
r. the danger OF playing with profess
sona.s. speaking on the subject will
which he Is most intimately acquainted
NJ iarcelon said that there were prob
lem, peculiar TO the colleges that would
haN" 20 be worked out by the colleges
Ne.selycs. In some instances he said
WH' mo line bet een a professional and
amateur was so faint that at times II
~af atrI to distinguish II. For instance
ne quoted the case OF boys who under
Ne present agitation do moi fare TO
IaY summer baseball. even In their
mon" town, though good players and
tfF '. for sport In the holiday season,
Mrfr "nvs had been tried 10 allow these
"Ys 70 follow their inclination~. and