New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1915-05-06

! can't locslize il. but one converse
tlon took place few weeks prior 20
the appointment OF succession to Mr..
Payn."
The Colonel started TO say that he
had gone TO Mr.. Barnes after a con-
versation with Senator Plat and told
him what the Senator had said. Be
cause this had been testified 10 before
he was not allowed to proceed along
that line. Continuing. he said:
The substance of the conversation
was this. and it took place on more
than one occasion: Mr.. Barnes said IL
was necessary that the head Of the
organization should have complete CON
troll Of the organization. He instanced
Albany County as an example Of one
in which II was impossible that the
ii'fraiI could 20 on in politics without
doing damage 20 the community unless
there should be a responsible organl-
ration. The rifraf could not be trust
cd 20 handle political affairs with pro-
priety. They would misconduct them
selves so at the expense of property
that the government couldn't go on.
He said, either on his own initia-
tive or repeating a conversation with
Senator Plat. that il was not neces-
sary ordinarily for the boss 10 issue
orders in the organization or 10 legis-
lators or public officials. They found
out speedily without the organization
leaders saying anything. They found
out that if they didn't support the or
ganization they were not renominated,
thev didn't get their bills through.
they didn't get funds for their de-
partments and had no funds given 70
them for their campaigns II they were
renomina'ed In most cases they
found out that il was for their own in,
forests TO discover what the orSaniza-
tion wanted and TO do il.
"Thcy didn't need TO he told. think
he said: You know, Mr.. Roosevelt, the
Senator doesn't bully: he doesn't have
to- He went on 10 say that the man
who went into politics and wanted to
90 ahead found he, couldn't if he did
not do what the boss wished. II was
not necessary TO give orders, because
he knew that if ne didn't stand with
the organization he got punished. II
he declined TO learn he was not able
to make a record. he was dropped, his
work didn't succeed and he was elimi-
mated
Repeated by Barnes.
"Did YOU say" asked Mr. Bowers,
that a similar conversation took place
after you became President"
at was more direct said the Colo
mel. leaning out of the witness chair:
Have | testified that Mr.. Barnes said
II was not necessary to ask business
men for campaign contributions ??
The witness was told he had testified
to that effect before and continued:
81 had a more specific conversation
with Mr.. Barnes when | was President.
II was after Governor Hughes was
elected and was either at the White
House or, possibly, Oyster Bay. II was
TO the effect that the organization had
complete control of the Legislature;
that on certain questions the primary
bills were what | had in mind
On objection by counsel for the
plaintiff the court ruled that the state
ment about the primary bills might go
out. but the Colonel went on:
"Tbe primary bills were mentioned,
and Mr.. Barnes said the organization
had complete control Of the Legislat-
ure; that the effort TO pass the primary
bills represented a general effort to
break down party government; that we
couldn't have party government with
out bosses. And he said that on such
an occasion the Democratic organiza-
ton would make common cause with
the Republican organization and it had
been agreed that they would make such
common cause against the primary leg
islstion. The legislation could not be
allowed to pass: it would mean the de-
struction of the party organization. /
think this one OF the occasions when
Mr. Barnes said that the people could
not be trusted to govern themselves
ain the answer you gave as to the
actions and the powers of the organi-
zation, did you use the word 'legis-
lators'?" asked Mr.. Bowers.
"Yes. Legislators or executive off,
GERS" replied the witness. That re-
ferred to when was Governor. When
was President the conversation re-
lated exclusively to legislators"
Quotes Newspaper Articles.
Mr.. Van Benschoten, for the defence,
after having Colonel Roosevelt identify
articles from "The World of May 3
and Nav 1919. nut them in evidence