New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1914-02-22


the word He said in effect: I would
not take the paper out OF the grand
iurv room to consult with my counsel
if that is even TO be held a technical
acceptance Of it
And then he came out and consulted
with me- l don't think Mr.. Carstar-
phen meant anything improper by IT,
but | don't think that when the man
went back into the grand jury room
he had the right to discuss with the
man the advice he received from me-
for the communications between client
and counsel are as privileged as any
communication could re.
Says Curtin Stood Pat.
yet this record shows there were
number of inquiries rs TO what aoNlce
was given by his counsel Mr.. curtin
said. I don't want this paper. and he
said it twenty-five times if he SAID II
once. and he laid it back on the table
MIR. Carstarphen went at nm from
every side and from every angie pe-
cause he desired that there should be
an acceptance of il. and this record
will show how earnestly he stroNe 10
make this man do something that
might he characterized as exercising
dominion over that paper.
And when Curtin started to leave
the Jury room. finally, Mr.. Car
starphen said: Here; take your pardon
with YOU. But Curtin said: l don't
want it: / don't want it, And he stood
pat on that proposition when he came
out of the room.
And they asked him. DO you mean
to leave this paper in the custody of
the grand jury? He said: i don't
leave il in the custody of anybody; |
haven't got anything TO do with it.
There can be one thing settled, and
that is that neither he nor Burdick
took the papers in the sense Of receiv-
ing this act Of grace upon the part of
the President.
Now We have got down to the prop
csition. Can the President of the United
States grant a pardon to a man who
has neither been convicted of crime
nor admits the commission OF crime!
That is proposition No. !.
Proposition No. >: II he can issue
pardon TO such man. can he compel
him to accept it, or does that pardon
! operate regardless OF the fact whether
! the man accepts il or not?
! Nov, these are. as take it, the In
place that the President cannot issue
| pardon for anything except crime
against the United States. Now. then.
must not the President. in order to
grant such pardon, have an offence
TO grant a pardon for? Can the Pres
ident grant a pardon for imaginary
crimes or offences against the United
States? Is a witness. going upon the
witness stand and asked a question,
criminal because he declines to answer
a question because he believes il may
tend TO incrminate him."
You do not need to argue that" the
court interpolated.
Then. if / do not need to argue that
it seems TO me that that is the end of
! this proposition
How the Cases Differ.
Mr.. Wise then took up the case Of
| General Garland cited by Mr.. Carstar-
| phen, as a precedent for the pardons in
the present case.
"These men" he said, have not been
convicted of any crime nor have they
admitted they committed any crime.
and there is where we differ from the
Garland case. General Garland was a
member Of the Supreme Court before
the war, and had cases pending in the
Supreme Court, and after the war he
came back and found himself confront
ed with the necessity OF having a par
don for having participated in this So
called rebellion, and he admitted that
he came within the class debarred from
citizenship on the ground they had
committed treason in bearing arms
against the United States.
He acknowledged that he had done
these things and accepted the pardon:
took it in his hands and carried it in
and handed il TO the tribunal where il
was TO be used and by so accepting
and using it admitted his previous mis-
conduct.
Now, then. we haven't done any
thing of that sort, and don't propose
10; and we don't propose to have the
President do TO us what the Constitu-
ton says shall be done by jury OF our
peers Shall we be convicted of A
crime other than in the manner pre-
scribed by the Constitution?
can the President, by granting me
a pardon and making me accept il.
make me admit that / have been euiItv
of a crime? ! say he cannot. And that
is the whole proposition. 1t has nor
been passed upon by any court. and |
don't think that any OF the authorities
that are cited here are in any way in
point.
Il think YOU are right. Mr. Wise"
said the court, in saying that the par
den will not become effective until II
j. received. But a very different ques-
ton may arise here as TO whether the
tender Of pardon does not offer all
IL.