The Detroit times., 1914-10-22


Attorney Scallon while Frazer was
struggling with McGurn.
Frazer proceeded TO read other er.
tracts from the report OF July IL.
McGurn was impudent In some or the
answers he made to the prosecutors
questions.
On July IL, NcGurn said. Brennan
was "jollying" Gilman all afternoon.
"You read your copy and Mr.. Sher.
idan's copy In the counsefs ONCE
did that refreshen your memory
MoGuyn made an evasive answer,
finally stating that Q review OF the
reports refreshened his memory In .
general way" but not as to details.
"All I remember on that day" said
McGurn. referring to the CONVEX
sation In room 40s on July 26. is
, the time that Gilman arrived and
the time he. left the once. Also In
a general way the conversation about
Q Job"
McGurn added: sits the usual
practice to read the original reports
into the court records. That Ia the
way It has been done In every other
case ] was ever In. He lprosecutor)
Ii trying TO make me testify to some
thing don't know anything about
and I don't think It's right"
You lost yonr original notesr
asked Frazer.
Yes
You never turned them over?"
Brennan would not take them. He
said the copies were turned into the
Chicago ONCE. but he kept the notes
In his possession"
Recall anything that was said in
room 400 on July 26l"
'Mr. Brennan was talking TO Mr..
Gilman. trying to refresh his mem
Tory, to which Gilman would reply:
III you say so II must be true?"
McGurn took stenographic notes Of
part OF the conversation that oc-
Cured In room 400 after Glinnan's
arrest. The witness remembered
that Gilman said he did not know
how the money got into his pocket
and that he had gone to the once 10
see about o job with the Wabash.
did Gilman tell anyone that the
money was put on him?"
HE said he didn't know how the
money got In his pocket and that he
did not come up there to get money"
The witness could not remember
hearing Burns warn Gilman OF his
rights.
my recollection OF the converse
ton that afternoon is that 1t was to-
force confession from Gilman" said
McGurn.
The witness would not even testify
to seeing Gilman hand over the
money when ordered to do 30 by
Burns.
"The arst saw of the money was
when II was on the window sill be-
ing counted" he said. II had my
back turned to Gilman when he came
In. was working the dictagraph."
ibid you hear Gilman say: That's
the irst dirty money ever tookT"
mo"
"He might have said Il and you not
heard IT."
yes, that's possible"
Frazer fred numerous questions at
McGurn, who finally Jared out.
You're trying to get me into trap,
why don't you ask me direct?"
The Judge, at the request OF the
prosecuting attorney, admonished the
witness. Mr.. Frazer was attempting
to find out how much Of the converse,
ton In the Ford building ONCE imme.
diately following Glinnan's arrest was
heard by the witness. Mediums mem.
DRY was poor.
II don't remember Gilman ac-
knowledging anything during the n.
ternoon," was one OF the witness an
swers to Frazer, who was then at
tempting to interrogate him regard
ing alleged admissions by Gilman In
the graft chamber. Frazer COM
planned to the court because Nc
Namara In an exchange of the usual
courtesies over the table, told the
prosecutor he was not the whole
thing" The court instructed the
stenographer to omit the side talk
OF the opposing counsel.
The prosecutor then questioned the |
witness regarding his connection with |
Smylie, another ex-Burps operative.
McGurn said he worked for Smylie
as an investigator.
When did Smylie nrst talk to you
about this case?
/. why every time we met we won
dered when the case was ever com
ing up" was the witness answer.
In the fall Of 1918, McGurn said
Smylie told him, he was the agent
why did you leave the employ Of
the Burns agency In Toledo?"
McGurn said he had FUSS" with
the manager there and resigned.
Burns or nobody else has got moth
ing on me-" said Mc0urn when Frazer
asked him II he wasn't fired" for
padding his payroll.
Some employees do that--right on
this job too" added the witness. 81
can't start any nickel shows" Nc
Gurn then proceeded to explain him
SELF" because. he said, the prosecu-
tor was casting reflections" at him. |
when Gilman went into room 40s
on July 2e when did the counting |
begin?
"As soon as Gilman came in.
mo counting before that?"
WAS Brennan's attitude violent
toward Mr.. Glinnan3"
His attitude was that Of q man
trying to put something over he
didn't have,
WAS Burns violentf"
HE was pretty serious in his
method OF questioning Mr.. Gilman"
The prosecutor then abruptly an
nounced that he was through with
the witness.
On redirect examination, Attorney
Kennary had the witness make clear