The Birmingham age-herald., 1913-01-24

were made. / think they were a great
blessing to the country"
Mr. Dawson further said he thought
it was unfortunate for the people of
the entire world" that the courts in
terfered with the trusts "as they have
done"
do you think 1t was wrong for the
courts to interfere?" Mr.. Untermyer
asked.
No" he replied, but I think 1t could
have been approached better in the
other direction, by regulation, not dis
egration."
You cannot any more dissolve those
trusts, in effect, than you can move
this continent across the Atlantic
ocean,"
Mr.. Dawson said he believed law
forcing banks in reserve cities to be
| independent and forbidding combina-
tions through interlocking directors
would "set us back 5 years.
| With the list of proposed witnesses
| cut down to a half dozen of the most
| important, the committee plans to con-
clude oral hearings Friday
Counsel Untermyer said that at least
| half a hundred witnesses whose testi-
mony was desired would not be called
to allow the committee to finish its
work.
Thomas w. Joyce, an employe of J..
r. Morgan, was the first witness eX-
amined
A statement of the deposits of ]. p
Morgan Co. was produced showing g
that the firm on November l, 1912, had
| S1l 600 600 on deposit with Ne York
banks and $500 900 in Boston banks.
Mr.. untermyer endeavored to get from
Mr.. Joyce the holdings of j. p. Nor
gan in the constituent companies which
were combined IN the United States
Steel corporation. Mr. Joyce could not
remember whether any such stock was
| held. S. p. DAWSON testified that he
negotiated the purchase Of the stock
| in the Guaranty Trust company for the
| organizers of the voting trust for the
| Trust company George r. Baker, he
| said, had nothing to do with the ne
sotiations Mr., Baker was at that time
connected with both the Mutual and
| the Guaranty Trust.
| Purchase of 5000 shares from Mrs E.
II. Hartman and eOo0 from the Mutual
Life Insurance company, Mr.. Dawson
said, gave the organizers control of p
| 900 out of the 10000 shares of the COM
pany.
To Form Bankers Trust
Dawson said the Guaranty Trust
| company was acquired by himself and
| his associates with the idea that ii
would be merged into the Bank
Trust company. He made this state
ment as to the voting trust agree
ments:
"We younger men organized the
| Bankers Trust company"
| He said it was organized in 1908, add
| ing:
"The purpose of this voting trust
was to preclude the possibility of the
| purchase of control of the stock by
men active in New York at that time
|
questioned. When we came to plan to
take in the Guaranty company, the vot-
| ing trust had worked so well in the
| Bankers Trust, that we organized the
| Guaranty under the same plan also
| that 1T might easily be taken over
Mr.. Untermyer SAID many of the MEM
bers of the Bankers Trust were widels
known as being so or so years of age
"On this question of voting trusts" said
| Dawson, I'm perfectly willing to recon-
mend that these voting trusts be dis
solv ed. The votiag trusts as such have
| had no more to do v ith the real manage
ment of the business than the Pujo COM
| inittee."
Mr.. untermyer and the witness in
dulged in an argument over the useful
ness of voting trusr arrangements for the
control of financial institutions.
I'VE will be we'll satisfied with your
statements that you will use your infiu-
ence to dissolve these voting trusts said
Mr.. Untermyer.
Voting Trust Not Useful
But / did not say that" Dawson OBJ
jeoted. Il say l see no useful purpose
| TO be subserved by these voting trusts,
| and upon more mature consideration
would probably recommend, so far as my
, otc is concerned, that they he dissolved
! MIR. Untermyer brought out that the
! , otes of two of the trustees OF the Bank
srs' and Guaranty companies could dis
solve the, trusts and that MIR. Dawson
| was a trustee of each company.
| When Mr.. Dawson resumed the stand
after the noon recess, MIR. Untermyer
placed in the record documents from the
| flies of j. F. Morgan & Co. and the New
! York stock exchange to show that in 1908
when the voting trust agreement over the
Southern railway was extended. 174.000
shares Of the former voting trust certih-
Gates that failed to agree to the extension
! we're stricken from the stock exchange.
Mr. Dawson said he was sure no wrong
WAS done to the minority holders.
You think that ]. +, Morgan could do
! no wrong? asked Mr.. untermyer.