The Birmingham age-herald., 1913-03-19
Brickell Asks Questions

Brickell Asks Questions
Attorney General BriclSell asked Mr.
Harold if he did not know that during
the last few years practically no cash
was carried in the state treasury. This
question was asked when Mr. Harold said
Lacy had told him that he was going to
place the money in the state treasury.
Mr.. Harold said he had tried to induce
Mr.. Cakley and Mr.. Lacy to accept checks
from the bank cashier rather than in cur
rency.
Speaking again of the box, he said that
Lacy had taken it from Mr.. curvans
private office under his arm. and that it
was noticeably burden.
Again asked by the attorney general as
to whether he had ever had an agree
ment or understanding with the convict
department with reference to the deposits
of the department He replied that he
had not. This question was asked Mr..
Harold number of times, but he always
insisted that there had never been any
character of agreement.
The amount of the convict department s
funds left on hand in the bank after the
Withdrawal of $4,000 was about $4,000,
according to Mr.. Harold. He said that
this money had since been turned over
to the state treasurer.
Total Deposits
In reply to questions put by Maj. r. +.
Steiner, special counsel employed by the
governor in the convict investigation, Mr..
Harold said that his dealings with the
convict department had extended over a
period of six months, from August 80,
1912, to March s, 1913. during which time
the department had deposited S1s0,540.l5.
He testified that this amount had been
drawn out in four checks. three of which
were payable to the state treasurer and
one to Theodore Lacy, defaulting clerk,
for $4,000
Mr.. Harold said his bank had
arranged with the Montgomery Bank
and Trust company to handle the de-
posits of the convict department.; that
| his bank (Harolds) had to pay ex-
change for all collections made by the
larger bank, and that the cost of these
collections varied from one-eighth per
cent to one per cent
Did Mr.. Oakley or Mr.. Lacy give
! you any reason for wanting the cash
rather than the cashiers check or
draft?"
Lacy told me that the state treas
urer wanted cash. he replied.
you did not ask the treasurer or
examiner about this transaction?"
asked Major Steiner.
mo, sir, I did not. I simply took
the word of Mr. Oakley and honored
this draft
AT 1915 this afternoon the investi-
cation adjourned until O'clock.
Afternoon Session
The convict investigation was re-
sumed at 800 o'clock this afternoon
with Bernard Steiner, cashier for the
Montgomery Bank and Trust company,
on the stand. Mr.. Steiner testified that
his bank acted as a clearing house to
some extent for the Montgomery Saw
ings bank, particularly all of the city
deposits of the latter bank. He said
that he had understood that the five
checks which were brought to his bank
on the Saturday before the defalca-
tions were to be converted into cash,
which money was to be paid back to
the convict department.
Seibels Follows Steiner
r. u. SelueIs. cashier OF the Alabama
Bank and Trust company, followed Mr.
Steiner on the stand. MIR. SeiDels stated
that the convict department. had had
an account with his bank for a num-
Der OF years, beginning in November,
1907, and continuing until 1911 lie
promised to furnish the investigation
committee a statement of the convict
departments account by "Wednesday
morning. He was then dismissed and
w. A. Downing, acting cashier of the
OHleTy SdNluSS Udilh, lOIlONSu
him on the standg
Mr.. Downing said that a negro had
brought most of the deposits from the
convict department to his bank stat
ing that MIR. Oakley had made one or
two deposits and that Lacy had made
one deposit. that of the 100000 on
Saturday, March s. He declared Lacy
had told him that the deposit would
be Withdrawn in a day or so. This
= 1a oh M n
5. He stated that Lacy had explained
that he wished the checks cashed in
order to turn it over to the state treas
urer. Mr.. Downing said that Mr.. Oak
ley had come into the bank after
Lacys disappearance and had asked to
see all the deposit slips of the con-
vict department extending over a pe-
riod of about six months. He stated
that Mr.. Oakley came to the bank three
or four times after the defalcation.
Mr. Downing declared that he did
not know of any arrangement between
Mr. Harold and Mr.. Lacy or between
Mr. Harold and Mr.. oakley by which
the bank was to pay the convict de-
partment for it's account.
He explained that in order to raise
$4,000 in cash to give Mr., Lacy his
bank had secured $4,000 from the
Exchange National bank and $1,000
from the Sullivan Sank and Trust com
pany, both of Montgomery.
Kervin Testifies
Following Mr.. Downing on the stand
was f. ID. KelVin, vice president of
the Montgomery Bank and Trust COM
papy, who paid Lacy the $4,000. He
said he had been connected with the
bank short time and that his bank
had handled some items for the con-
Wet department He declared he had
no arrangements with Mr.. Harold rel
ative to the amount of exchange to be
paid for collecting money on checks
and drafts presented to his bank by
the Montgomery Bank and Trust COM
pany for this money. He said he did
not know Lacy until he came to the
bank to get the money, at which time
he was introduced to him. He de-
scribed how he had counted out the.
$4,000 which he gave Lacy. saying that
it was left in the bank vault over
night and that Lacy came for it the
Following day.
Asked whether he knew for what pur-
pose Lacy wanted the money, Mr. kir-
ven said be had been told that Lacy
wanted the money to turn over to
the state of Alabama. Mr. Kervin said
that when Lacy came for the money