The Irish standard., 1912-11-02

, <my life
.c3tEdward carson-what about the
S,1te S.. sceptre? Opposition
Mr.. LSfeI 7ge-The right hon
orable and ed gentleman should
be the last to complain about chaff
of that kind.
Sir Edward Carson-I can bear a
good deal more of it than you can.
Mr.. Lloyd George-No man is fit for
public life unless he can stand lit
tie of that kind of thing. I never
treated the Ulster question as If it
were merely question of jesting.
A Unionist Member - Your party
does so today Opposition cheers).
Mr.. Lloyd George don't think they
do. No man has any right to jest at
the honest convictions of any man
ministerial cheers and derisive Op-
position cries). I belong to small
nationality myself-the smallest ma
tionality in this kingdom. and ma
tionality which, for its smallness-
A Unionist Member-Which pulls
women's hair out.
Mr.. Lloyd George-That is like a
good many things have heard-an
utter falsehood.
Mr.. Harold Smith asked if this was
Parliamentary expression.
Speaker Asked to Rule.
The speaker said he really did not
know what the truth was about this
matter Certain statements were
made in the newspapers. The honor
able gentleman had taken one view.
The right honorable gentleman, who
was present on the occasion referred
to, had taken another ministerial
cheers). He understood the right hon
orable gentleman to refer to the state
ments in the newspapers when he
used the word falsehood.
Mr.. Lloyd George-The whole of
that story is not merely grossly ex-
aggerated, but nine-tenths of 1t is
an unutterable falsehood. was pres
ent, and I saw the whole thing. I
only wanted to say this-that I am
the last man in the House to rilicule
the passions, the feelings, the sympa-
thies, or even the prejudices of small
nationality. Therefore when I ap-
proachr the question of Ulster l Ger
tainly do not question the sincere con-
victions of that corner of Ulster which
opposes Home Rule. The noble lord
dord Hugh CeciD had referred to
the Congress of Vienna as the tearing
up and parcelling out of nationalities.
I ask him is there an Ulster man in
this House who will say that he is
not an 1rishman. 1 never met one. I
have heard the right honorable learn
ed gentleman passionately claim that
he was an Irishman.
Sir Edward Carson-Nobody would
deny it Gaughter).
Mr.. Lloyd George Nobody who
knows the genius of the right honor
able gentleman could possibly chal-
lenge his claim that his is particular
ly Irish (laughter), but the case Civ
en- by the noble lord is the case of
people who are taken out of their
own nationality and put into another.
Does the honorable lord say we are
taking Ulster men out of their ma
tionality? Take the case of my own
nationality. Supposing we had au-
tonomy in Wales for education and
temperance and other things that are
peculiarly our own, does he consider
that any Welshman would cease to
consider himself member of the
British race and of British national
lty? Why, then should there be any
d1rerence In the case of Ulster, and
may I point out that the plea of the
noble lord is very different plea to
that made by the right honorable and
learned member for Dublin Univer-
sity. The noble lords plea is a sep
arate race. separate religion, separ-
ate traditions, separate history.
"Hate the Nationalist Parliament"
Lord Hugh Cecil say they pas
sionately hate the Nationalist Par
Lament in Dublin under which you
are prepared to put them by force.
Mr.. Lloyd GeorSe-The noble lord s
claim is a claim for separate treat
ment for Ulster. That is not the
claim of the right honorable and
learned gentleman.
Lord Hugh Cecil made no claim.
I say that the right honorable gent
leman's own Liberal principles require
him not to force Ulster out of the ma
tionality she wishes to belong to, and
into that she does not wish to belong
to