New-York tribune., 1912-01-29
'PLEA FOR SOCIALISM
ATTACKED BY CARMODY
Attorney General and Morris
Hi|Iquit in Joint Debate at
Peoples Forum.
DANGER IN CLASS HATRED
People Might Purchase or Con,
fscate All Public Utilities,
Socialist Says-Laughs
at Old Parties.

During n debate between Attorney GEN
eral Thomas carmody and Morris Hlillqmt.
the socialist leader. on 'Indiydualism vs.
Socialism" before the New Rochelle Peo-
pies Forum yesterday afternoon. Mr.. Car
mody said those who seek to build up po-
ltical power by levelIing the courts are the
worst enemies Of the American govern
.ment. John Quinn. a New York attorney
presided. About two thousand persons
among them many capitalists and socialists
were present Emma Goldman was IN the
front row.
Mr.. Carmody spoke for individuasm ard
Mr. Hiliquit for socialism. The meeting
was the tenth anniversary Of the founding
Of the forum by Justice Martin J. keogh
Mr.. Hfllquit said there was great appre-
hcnson that the wealthy and powerful
would gradually get control OF the nauon
and that the development and growth OF
which we boast had been a one-sided de-
velopment which had left the other parts
weak and crippled. He said before there
were combinations and machinery therc
was a time when the workers owned their
own tools and had means Of making Nv
ing. but that under modern individualism
tlp WORKERS nave UP'olit '''i'N'" "'''
losing their independence.
There Is some industrial disturbance
going on every day" he said. The pres
ent unrest is spreading daily ana Is at
tracing all classes but the ruling class
There is one group that IL like the ostrlch
who buries his head in the sand and won
see The prototype of this class IS Mr
Taft. There Is another class like the two
CoIonels-Roosevelt and Bryan. They
throw suowballs at the trusts and make
mighty noise i'm the nation, but accomplish
nothing"
Mr.. Carmody said: "All that Mr.. Hilquit
has said IL not socialism. and all That So
cialsm is he has not said He can have no
quarrel with me on the question OF the
defence Of labor. / am opposed to the IN
dustrial conditions that do injustice To Ia
bor. am opposed TO the laws and the
manner In which they are enforced that
permit the segregation Of great wealth. |
am for the man 10 get what he earns and
to earn what he can.
THE man who draws a sOcialisuc plat
form Is safe I'm using his imagination, be-
cause he will never be called upon to put u
into operation Socialism IS intended 10
arouse class hatred. Go to the legislative
halls I'm Albany and YOU will find that 10
per cent Of the men who arc making the
laws Of the state are poor men who came
from the ranks of labor.
When you say, Mr. Hllquit, that you
are going To take over the railroads, canals
telegraph and telephone want you to tell
this audience how you are going TO do IT.
There are fortunes In them. II you pay for
them. after paying the owners. YOU VIII
start your socialIstc regime with million
aires. You are not going to destroy the
money"
In rcbuttal. Mr.. Hllquit said neither the
Republican nor the Democratic party haa
dane anything TO change conditions IN
which the capitalist holds the tools ot the
workingman lie said the people could
own the trusts II they would. Answering
MIR Carmody's question az 20 how the
public service corporations would be ac-
auircd. ne said they might be acquired by
p,Irchaac. or, perhaps the people might de-
clare civil war and confscate them.