The times dispatch. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1903-1914, 1912-12-20


to say is this: The question of control
in this country at least, is personal
that is. in money
Have YOU not seen many instance.
in the history OF this country Of Il
nancial men getting vast control anc
abusing 4 through a long period Of
years before they lost it?'' asked Mr.
/ Untermyer.
Not one particular line. and nobody
that has what you call a money trust
or anything Of that kind" said Mr.
Morgan
You admit. do you not. that mer
may get control OF railroads or bust
ness enterprises and nonopolize them
and so abuse their privilege?'
Yes"
And you say that so Far as the con
troll OF the credit is concerned. they
cannot do the same thing?'
"Of money. no. they cannot control
IT. said Mr. Morgan.
Then the thing goe. back to rhe
question OF the control OF banks and
trust companies in New York" said
Mr.. Cntermyer-
do you think that a competitive
condition in the banks and trust com
panies Of New York IS more or less
preferable than A concentrated contro
over those banks.
II would rather have competition.
said Mr.. Morgan.
After ascertaining that a number OF
voting trusts in various railroad and
Industrial corporations were held by
members Of the firm OF J. 2. Morgan
d Co. Mr.. Untermyer asked:
assuming you were the voting trus'
tee for ali the great systems OF rail-
roads IN the United States. II would
concentrate control in you, would ii
not?"
1t would be a concentration IN my
hands. but the board OF directors are
the ones and you do not put the same
board in every company" said Mr.
Morgan.
sometimes they come pretty near
it." said NJ. Untermyer-
NO. sir. never" said 3lr Morgan
Take the banks or New York: dc
you realize the identity Of directors in
the banks
u do but the number Of Director
a airy'Fs '"'" !" proportion 70 them
I.
dangerous concentration through nav
ing these same directors in various
institutions"
secs No Danger In IL.
NO. sir: 7 do not see any danger in
IL at all" replied the banker
DO you think that competitive in
stitutfons. that ought TO be competi-
tive. should have the same boards?''
Certainly not"
do you think they ought 10 have q
preponderating influence in each
board?''
CT do not" said Mr.. Morgan.
DO YOU see nothing improper in
having the same men looking into one
anothe-'s business in competing insti-
tutions7r asked Mr. Untermyer-
They are not looking into each
Others business" answered the wit
ness.
u Is the duty Of director 10 know
what is going on in his bank Is II
not"
But a general director does not
know He does not see the books.
Mr. Morgan said
NJ Morgan insisted that without
actual control o. n directorate. inter
locked directors had not actual pow
er.
~You take three banks he said
Then take three men and put them
IN each % those hanks In one oanh
tbsv a-e three out Of twenty-five ~
another they are three out OK twenty
IN another they are three out OF ten
Il YOU Ike.
Put suppose sou have named All the
other directors. said Mr.. I1ttTny eI
suppose YOU have a voting trust aan
you have. under tie pDwer given o
that voting trust named the ~noi"
board. as has been done IN these tive
cases OF the Guaranty Trust and the
Bankers Trust
Directors Must Approve
L am not talking about voting trusts
now. ] am passing now upon the queS
ton 81 directors -thrcc directors We
20 into four or ten banks 7 say thai
these three directors. and 4 have beer
IN a good many banks and good many
corporaticns-I defy any mar 20 80
IN any one q these boards. even myself
II will say that FOR the sake OF ths
sreument-I do not believe could
carry any one question through any
one board I was director N agains'
the Views Of the directors
is that all you wanted q say
.Dn the contrary. ] have great
quantity q cases where I could bring
in proofs Of IT, There - 40 question
Of control snl<se yos have got q ma
sorftv u TIRE Directors IN ali hanks.
said Mr.. Morgan. with emphasis.
Early IN his testimony Mr. Morgan
Ia rla.