The evening world. [volume] (New York, N.Y.) 1887-1931, 1912-12-19

swer he could make as to his purchase
Of the stock was that he thought II
was the thing TO do"
~ Am ready 70 stand before the
community On that he declared.
Data bearing on the proposed mutual
ization Of the Equitable Company was
presented by Mr.. Morsan's attorneys
and put into the record.
Mr.. Untermyer then offered a state
ment OF securities held by the Equitable.
Mutual, New York and Metropolitan
life companies issued Though Morgan
q %. and now held by the Insurance
companies as part Of their assets.
As to the reason for the formation Of
the First Securities Company. an ad-
junct OF the First National Bank, and
the National City Company OF the Ma
tkonal City Bank, Mr.. Morgan said he
thought they were organized to deal In
| securities the banks themselves could
not handle. In the National City Com
pany. he said. he had n small holding
which he later said was worth, present
value. about s6.0oo,o00.
DO you call that small INTEREST,""
ITS not a controlling interest,"" said
Mr.. Morgan. ut Is not an Investment
that requires constant watching
Mr.. Morgan and the lawyer then went
Into a long discussion about clearing
houses and tho possible benefits OF gov
| eminent supervision.
Mr.. Morgan inclined to the 'oelief tina t
the banks In o, clearing house were en-
titled TO Judge the admissibility OF others
seeking membership.
Mr.. Untsrmysr again took mp "oon-
osntratton Of money"
"Ths control OF credits involves the
control OF money, DOESN'T it9" he
asisd.
"Ho, think not. What I call money
10 the basis Of all banking-gold," re-
Piled Hr. HorGan. Ke said credit WAS
the evidence Of banking'' but not the
basis OF It. Credit was . great part
OF banking everywhere.
"A man or group Of msr who have
the control OF credit have the control
Of money. Isn't that so7" asked the
lawyer. "Not always"
III you had control Of all that rep
rsssnts the assets Of all the banks In
New York, you'd have control OF the
money, wouldn't your"
MONEY CANNOT BE CON.
TRoLLED, HE INSISTS.
"No. I don't think So"
lGr. Morgan said that every oommod-
ity except money could be controlled
but that money absolutely could not
be controlled. On that point the wit
ness was emphatic.
1Gr. Unter1nysr asked II control Of
credit would not carry with IL . CON-
troll OF money. 16r. Morgan said no.
"Dut suppose . man hAd control OF
all the crsdit7 III he had the credit
and I had tho money. his customers
would be badly or" he said, and added
that orsdi. had NO relation TO the oon-
troll OF money. He said he knew many
men with great credit who had NO
money.
II know men who will come into my
ONCE and I'll give them checks for
81. 10000 when they have nothing back
Of them
Mr.. Morgan said he had loaned money
en- the basis of a borrowers charac-
ter.
is that the way you lend money
on the Stock Exchange" asked Mr..
Untermyer. Yes"
DO you know to whom you lend mon
ey when you send It to the loan stand
on the Stock Exchange" Il know very
soon afterward II loan comes In for
Mr.. Smith and I don't trust him. ! say
ri call Off the loan'-even II II was
made on Government bonds"
Mr.. Morgan asked permission to move
up nearer the committee tables. He
took one OF the committee chairs next
to Representative Hayes Of California.
As he took his seat he remarked: I'm
getting a little deaf as get older"
Continuing his testimony he said he
knew very little of operations on the
New York stock Exchange.
Don't you think the quotations on
the Exchange should represent real
| transactions?" ast d Mr.. Untermyer
IT think they do. But I know nothing
az to the facts"
"Do You think manipulation 10 gsnu.
insf~ "Io."
he DOES NOT LIKE SHORT
SALES OF STOCK.
"That it's illsgit1matsf" suggested
the lawyer. "Yes, I think So"
He added that he thought majority