The Bennington evening banner. (Bennington, Vt.) 19??-1961, 1912-01-31
lNDvlouALIsM OR SOCIALISM
Joint Debate at New Rochelle over
the Question

the Question
New York Jan. SO.-Attorney Gen
eral Thomas Carmody and Morris
Hillquit, the Socialist leader, de-
bated on "Individualism VS.. Social
ism" before the New Rochelle PEG
pies Forum Sunday afternoon. Mr.
Carmody declared that those who
sought to build up political power by
levelng the courts were the worst
enemies of the American govern
ment. 1t was the tenth anniversary
of the founding Of the Forum by Su-
preme Court Justice Martin j. Ke-
ough
Mr. Hillquit spoke first He said
there was great apprehension that the
wealthy and powerful will gradually
get control of the nation, and that
the development and growth, Of
which we boast, has been a one-sided
development. He said that before
there were combinations and machin-
cry there was a time when the work
ers owned their own tools and had
means of earning living, but under
modern individualism the workers
have been losing their independence.
The unrest under the present con
ditons is spreading daily, declared
the speaker, and is attracting all
classes except the ruling class There
is one group like the ostrich, which
buries his head in the sand and won't
see The prototype of this class said
Mr.. Hillquit, is the chief executive
of our nation, Mr.. Taft. There is
another class; the two colonies, Col
Roosevelt and Col. Bryan, who call
themselves conservative Republicans,
conservative Democrats, progressive
Republicans, progressive Democrats,
conservative Radicals or Radical con
servatives. They throw snowballs at
the trusts and make a mighty noise
in the nation, but accomplish nothing.
The trusts were never more prosper
GUS nor grew more powerful than
during the regime of the social refor-
mers, declared the speaker.
The third class, said Mr.. Hillquit,
is the school of social thought, the
Socialist party, which sees the evils
of modern society, analyses them and
finds the remedy All that is re-
quired is sane organization of in
dustry
Mr.. Carmody in opening his ad-
dress said: "All that Mr.. Hillquit has
said is not Socialism, and all that So
cialism is he has not said He can
have no quarrel with me on the ques-
ton of the defense of labor. | too,
am opposed to the industrial condit-
ions that do injustice to labor. ] am
opposed to the laws and the manner
in which they are enforced that per
init the segregation of great wealth
| am for the man to get what he
earns. and TO earn what he can. We
have an acute case Of materialism.
which the Socialists are teaching in
the histories in the schools today. We
find the names Of great materialists
and not individualists'
Turning to Mr. Hillquit, Mr. Car
mody said:
Don't say that you can assail the
sins of humanity because you have
a patent. Don't say these sins are
the result of the laws not being en-
forced. Tho man who draws soc
ialistic platform is safe in using his
Imagination. because he will never
be called upon to put it into opera
ton
THE highest courts OF this coun-
try have rendered decision after de.
cision destructive to the rights of the
workingman that for generations he
has built up. Socialism is intended
TO arouse class hatred. Those who
seek 10 build up political power up
on leveing down the environments
of the courts OF justice by the tumult
of the mob are the worst enemies
that stand beneath the flag.
Go to the legislative halls IN
Albany and you will find that 80 per
cent OF the men who are making the
laws Of the state are poor men who
came from the ranks OF labor. When
YOU say. Mr. Hillquit, that you are
going to take over the railroads. can
ais. telegraph. and telephone want
YOU to tell this audience how you
are going to do ii. There are Tor
tunes in them. II you pay for them
after paying the owners you VIII
start your socialistic regime with
mllionaires You are not going to
destroy the money After dividing
up. are the former millionaires goins
to steal when you call them Social
ists?"
In rebuttal Mr. Hillquit said that
neither the Republican nor the Dem
ocratic party has done anything 20
change the conditions where the cap
italist holds the tools OF the working
man. lie said the people can own
the trusts II they Will Answering
MIR. Carmody's question as to how
the public service corporations would
be acquired. he said they might be
acquired by purchase, or perhaps the
people would declare civil war and
conhscate them.
Mr.. Carmody retorted: IF YOU
stand there and say that you are GO
ing to confscate property you are not
proper exponent OF any theory
LANpGRoVE
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