davidaulloa/AmericanStories huggingface dataset:
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28
WOMEN MUST FIGHT ON
One Says Sufragists Must Not Rest
with What Is Won.

10 the Editor II The Tribune.
sIr Miss Chitterden's appeal to sur
,ragists 10 rest content with the rights
they nave already obtained and to cease
asking for political equality is III VAIN
II ls the daughters ana grahuda"s"
t.rs OF the women who asked Tor tht
r.ght to their own wages. demahdeo
higher education and the guardianship
Of their children who are lighting IoF tue
,,o,s to-day. The same blood tnat ran IN
their veins runs in ours. on the othe'
hand. the same type OF mind that. Salu
Tho st,idy OF mathematics would unseN
woman now SAYS that the vote VIII nave
The Same effect. The Same type or nina
that argued that a husband cou.d spenu
a viCe's wages more wisely IMAM Sho
could herself now maintains that man
can Iesislate better for the industrial
woman than she can FOR herself.
n the snti-suffragists are SO sure that
the vote is a bad thing for women as
we'll as for tie state, surely their most
hopeful fell OF action Is the woman SUI
Croqs state. Then, II what they claim IL
TINE they would not have 70 speak OF
far AWAY ChtdSklOphNS' 49,
out the bad effects OF suffrage to eye"lt-
witnesses Instead, what do we ma!
There are no anti-surrage clubs In those
states at all and no auti-sunraGe bllls
presented to the legislatures
There Is one place where Miss Chitten-
den might succeed and that is in Turkey.
There she would find the women In
nice, passive state in the harems. unde-
sirous OF the vote or OF higher education.
But 1 S,ar that Miss Chittenden would
appear SO emanclpated Ia their eyes that
she would prejudice her cause, and be-
sides. she must hurry. for the Turks have
deteriorated TO such an extent, owing 10
the limitation OF the activities Of their
women, that, apparently, they will be
swept into the Bosporus.
NORA BLATCH DE FOREST,
Member Executive Board Womens Polltl-
cal Union.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

that those who do teach their pupils
right enunciation, will have to struggle
against the hostile influences Of the
home. the street. the shop, the theatre
and almost every other place where
English is spoken. II will not be easy
10 induce a boy to say bird instead or
bold" and three" instead Of tree,
and my" instead Of "meh,' and raw
instead Of "rawr." when TO do so will
make him seem singular among his
family and associates and bring upon
him bantering, if not ridicule and re-
proof Yet we know Of nothing in the
present day teaching Of English that
needs much more urgently 10 be done.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28
PRACTICAL THANKS.

Reasons for thanksgiving today
both public and private, are plenty as
Falstaff's proverbial blaCkberrleS, or
would be found so II people would
only look for them instead Of brooding
over their imaginary misfortuneS anu
blinking at spots on the sun. Ana
since gratitude is both subjective ana
objective. each cause will present
different and special aspect TO each
different observer. Here in the United
States, If not elsewhere, there is one
cause which IS almost universal and
which directly appeals to all. More
over. it involves as much OF assured
promise as Of present realization.
That cause for gratefulness is the
substantial renewal Of business actiV-
ity and industrial prosperity. After
years OF drifting in the doldrums, the
business world has resumed It's course
with favoring trade winds. Confidence
and enterprise are revived, and the
beginning Of winter, season when
under other circumstances would be
regarded with dread, finds labor al
most everywhere prOftably employed
and capital so confident as to give
promise OF the continuance Of such
h conditions.
There is no occasion for making the
Drcproach of sOrdidness or unitarian
ism against such a reason for national
thanksgiving. There is none more
valid and worthy. Nor Is there any
which suggests more strongly the
practical lesson Of the possibility and
the desirability Of our maintaining TINS
cause for gratitude in perpetuity by
our own efforts and policies. For while
men give thanks for gifts which come
IN them unsought and without effort
If their own. they are even better JUS
tilted i'm being grateful for those things
which have been secured largely
through their own we'll directed labors.
There are natural conditions and oc-
currencps which are beyond our con
troll and which affect the prosperity
of tbe nation. though we have already
learned to overcome many influences
which once seemed irresistible. But
certainly our political, economic and
social progress should by this time
have led us to a point at which we
could guard against artificial and I'M
necessary depressions and disturbances
of business, and in a country of such
vast and varied resources maintain
with increasing constancy a general
average Of common prosperity Per-
hans to-day's thanksgiving could take
no more practical and useful form
than a consideration of the ways ana
means by which the favorable condi-
tons which now exist are to be con
frmpd and prolonged.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28
IN THE BERKSHIRes.
rBy Telegraph 70 The Tribune. J

Ienox. Nov. 27.-Mrs. j. Frederick
schenck is entertaining house party ~
Valley Head for the holiday. Her guests
include Mrs Joseph s. Lowering, OF Dos
ton: Miss Edith Morgan, Of New lorh,
Frederick Schenck, of Cambridge, ana
Fulton Cutting and Chester G. Burden OF
New York.
Miss Heloise Never will entertain
dozen friends at luncheon tomorrow Al
Overlee.
Mrs. John H. Livingston is a guest or
her daughter, Mrs. Charles X. Mellen, at
Council Hill I'm Stockbridge Mr.. ana
Mrs. Mellen will keen their villa open
until mid-December
Francis Billiard, Of Boston, Is guest
OF Grenville L. Winthrop.
John A. Spoor. who has been in Pitts
field. has returned to Chicago.
Mrs. Alden Sampson is at the White
Tree Inn, Pittsfeld. for the winter. Mrs.
sampson has been in California for sew
eral months.
Mrs. John J. Staples has arrived at cur
tis Hotel, from New York.
The will of Mrs. Birdseye Brakeman, OK
New York. filed here, bedueathes Oro-
nodue, the residence OF the testator. to
Mrs. Anna Brakeman Vesey, a grand
daughter Mrs. Vesey also receives Mrs
BIakemans pew i'm st. Bartholomew's
New York: silver and gold ware. and
horses, carriages and a stable In New
York
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28
THE DIPLOMATIC CORPS.
From The Tribune Bureau.


Washington. Nov 27-The German AM
bassador and Countess Won Bernstorfr en-
tertained at dinner tonight I'm compliment
10 the "e'i-ng British Ambassador and
Mrs. James Bryce. Their other guests
were the Secretary OF the Navy and Slrs.
George Won l.. Meyer. Mr. Bru. the
Danish Minister: Mrs Richard II. Town
send. Mrs. H. X. Laughlin, the Assist
ant Secretary OF state. and Mrs. Chandler
Hale. the Second Spanish Secretary and
Schora de Canongo, Mr.. and Mrs George
Howard. Major Won Herwath and lieu
tenant Colonel and Mrs Charles L. Nc
Cawley
The Gillian Minister and Sonora Dona
I.eonor Orrego de Suarez entertained a
dinner comp my at the legation IN 10Th
street tonight.
The Belgian Legation has been placed
in official mourning by the death on Tues
day morning OF the Countess Of Flanders,
Princess Marie Of Belgium, mother OF
King Albert OF Belgium. The munster
and Nine Havenith are already In unof-
fetal mourning FOR the death OF the broth
er OF Nine Havenith.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

The report OF investigators that down
in the pine barrens" OF Southern New
Jersey wives and children are some
times sold for liquor is shocking but
not incredible 10 those who are familiar
with conditions there. In some parts
Of that neglected territory. remote
from railroads or considerable centres
of population. where all the conditions
Of life are primitive and poverty
stricken, many families have become
degenerate. like the poor whites OF
some parts OF the South and some OF
the Tennessee mountaineers, and there
prevail an ignorance and a moral deg
radiation scarcely surpassed In any pro-
fesscdly civilized land. There is as
much need OF missionary work in some
spots within "A hundred miles OF New
York "a there is in the heart Of Africa,
or in "Helrs Kitch n
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28
A KILL 10Y COMMITTEE.

1T is mere play for them, say the
Gamers OF the preparation Of yegeta-
bles by children in their factories
That is IL. Boys will be boys. Con
front them with the opportunity oil
taking part in that fayorite sport oi
youth shipping" beans. and YOU can
not hold them back. They rise al q"
a. IN. to begin their play and cannot
be driven away from the beans uhlll
10 or - o'clock at night. what does
it signify that inspectors found thelI
fingers cracked open and tied III pan
dageS as they were occupied with theH
sport? You cannot put old heads on
young shoulders. All childish sports
have their dangers. Are fingers never
smashed in duck on the rock or IN
baseball or legs and arms never dam
aged in football? And as for whiting,
its wounds are many. The chlld IS
father to the man. The risk adds TO
the fun. That is why you cannot keep
them away from shipping beans.
To be sure. stodgy Mr.. Wagner. head
Of the committee which is invesu-
eating factories, couldn't see the 1un
in shipping" beans all day long and
most Of the night. He talks Of passing
a law TO put an end TO the sport. NO
wonder the Gamers told him solemnly
that II was Impossible TO legislate
humanity into heaven We believe ne
replied that he did not want TO legls-
late any one into heaven; he wanted 10
legislate some out Of heaven, for he
thought they were getting there too
soon. The old kill JOY!
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28
THE UNFAilING WEAPON.
or OF The Tribune.

To the Editor OF The Tribune.
Sir: The editorial I'VE Are the People"
puts the case fairly. Take the ego
tism, the Hypocrisy, the arrogant assump-
ton and the conceit out Of the selfstyled
Progressive" crew and there would be-
little left,-ln fact, nothing left but fatuous
devotion TO a picturesque, swashbuckling
personality.
That is point worth playing up
Ridicule Is a weapon that will pierce and
slay conceit. W. e. TAYLOR.
New York, Nov. 20. 1912.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28
AT NEWPORT.

by telegraph 20 The Tribune
Newport, Nov. I.-lIrs. French Wander
blt went TO Boston to-day.
Mr. and Mrs. Henry A. c. Taylor ana
Mr. and Mrs. George Il. de Forest will
spend Thanksgiving Day I'm New York
They closed their season here to-day.
Mrs. Vanderbilt will be dinner enter
tainer at The Breakers tomorrow.
Mrs. Amos Tuck French and MIS-
stuyvesant lie Roy have gone to Ne"
York for the winter.
Miss Mary Ward McAllister left hero
for New York to-day. Her house mere
will not be closed for "A while.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28
FOR WHITMAN AND MOSS.

To the Editor OF The Tribune.
Sir: Your correspondent the other day
felicitated himself on having voted for
Whitman for District Attorney, and adj
ded that he hoped TO vote for him for
Mayor. "Them's my sentiments, too"
and | will add that would also like an
opportunity to vote for Frank Moss for
District Attorney. Here are two men
who have fought shoulder to shoulder
with their backs against the wall and
shown us that there is q God In Israel"
Yours truly, f. w. SNIFFEN.
New York, Nov 27. 1912.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28
FALSE LEADERSHIP.

When EttOr the Industrial WORKERS
of the World leader thanked the court
and jury that acquitted him for the
fair trial he received he spoke tue
truth. He did owe his release 10 the
fairness Of the court and the jury
When later he told the crowd at Law
renee that he owed it to "the solidar-
.ity of the industrial classes through
cont the world" he said what was not
so. Class influence had nothing to DO
with his acquittal If he had got free
simply because he was a leader Ol
workingmen he would not have had a
fair trial. There would be no such
thing as justice where that was pos
Sible.
The evil Of such an assertion as
that of Ettor TO the Lawrence crowd IS
that it implies to the minds or the
ignorant. unfortunate foreign born
working people to whom he addressed
himself that they cannot obtain justice
from American courts except by or
sanization. threats and "demonstra-
lions" It teaches them that the gov
eminent is their enemy and must be
made to fear them by a show OF
strength. Nothing could be falSer'
Nothing could he more injurious to the
interests Of the workingmen them
selves. Nothing could make II more
difficult for them to obtain fair hear
Ing before the public. And Ettor mas
no longer the excuse Of ignorance. lie
knows from experience that the insti'
tutlons Of the country are not in the
possession of enemies Of the working
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

l am sorry for the man but the lost ana
stolen idea has been used 80 industriousiy
for advertising purposes that my fun
sympathy halts until l am convinced that
the actress or the singer is not jeweller
this time"
de man dat can't trust nobody, SAID
Uncle Eben, is generally man dat you
wants to look out fol-. cause his sus-
picions is liable to come mostly FUN hg-
germ on what he'd do II he was In do
other feler's place" Washington star
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28
What would the ode. luxe" book pub
Usher do without fools?

Mayor Grant welded an axe agaihS'
obstructive telegraph poles in the
streets OF Manhattan, and Mayor Glea-
son dealt likewise with railroad gates
in the fragrant precincts Of Long Island
CITY. but the fame Of both wanes pale
beside that Of President McAneny, who'
through multitudinous deputies, YIELDS
axe and adze, crosscut and ripsaw'
crowbar and battering ram, and a
whole variegated arsenal OF destructive
enginery against the distractions OF
our sidewalks.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28
PeODJe and Social Incidents

the church rehearsal OF the Souteli- I4add
wedding tonight the bride-to-be and IN.
br.degroom-elect and the bridal party
were entertained at supper by NJ. and
Mrs. Roger Boutell.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28
THE TALK OF THE DAY.

The gold bar OF Menes. stolen from
the Haskell Oriental Museum at the Uni
versity OF Chicago last February, has
been recovered through n private detcc-
tive. by whom 1t is reported 10 have
been discovered buried on 5Gth street,
lust north OF Marshall Field, the athletic
grounds OF the university Menes was
the first Pharaoh ~ United Egypt and
began TO reign about 800 y. 9. The bar
bore the name OF Menes beautifully on
graved in clear cut hleroglyphlcs, al
though as an ornament its exact purpose
IL unknown. When returned TO the unit
versity, the inscription had been com
pletely hacked out largely destroying the
value OF the ancient relic 1t was tho
Oldest piece OF dated and inscribed jewelry
In the world. The thief was convicted on
finger print evidence.
Dyer-Dld the doctors give Higgins up?
Ryrr-NeS, but not soon enOugh.-Lif
THANKSGIVING
| thank the Lord that have health
Which lets me fight my worldly fray :;
That scant, though ample, earthly wealth
Permits my living day from day;
That I've n mind from passion free
That petty spites ! do not hoard
And that the sweet sun reaches me
] thank the Lord.
l thank the Lord for faults I've known
(They have. corrected. lit the lane)
That tween the sunbursts I've been shown
III. IprUnpan NTH Ito a
That I've been dismal with despair,
That tears in tender torrents poured !;
But that rye fought the battle fair
thank the Lord.
I thank the Lord that lie has sent
Me eyes with which to look around
To witness Natures calm content
And 10y: and ears 10 catch the sound
OF birds that sing their CHEEKY glee;
The plural senses in me stored
For what has been, is or will be,
| thank the Lord.
The teacher. after telling the Christmas
story, was questioning the Infant class.
Now, who can tell me what the wise
mon brought to the baby Jesus she
asked.
SiXyear-old Alexanoer WaNeu chupDy
hand
"Gold an Lincoln cents and myrrh! he
announced. YOUTHS Companion.
Actresses. singers and notorlety seek
ing women are not the only ones to lose
pearl necklaces" says Vienna letter
in the "Morgen Post" Berlin. when
ever a bereavement Of that nature is re-
ported, feel how heartless I am because
my tear ducts are not taxed beyond their
normal functions. Any one whose for
tune is such that he can indulge in the
luxury can also afford to be robbed. But
one must sympathize with the clerk who
carries a string OF sixty-fve perfectly
matched pearls wrapped I'm a piece Of
tissue paper In his coat pocket along
with a letter. The letter was registered
at postoffice sub-station and then the
package OF pearls disappeared. or course
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Move TO Enace G. W. Perkins
saws a headline describing the Progress
sive party's plans. What! Is not the
harvester going TO be permitted to reap
where he has sown so abundantly?
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Perhaps an official or the Department
OF Agriculture is right in saying that
turkey is not mature At Thanksgiving
time and therefore lacks the proper
favor. His experience must have been
s!ngularly fortunate. II he had ever
encountered the cold storage turkey he
would know that II has both maturity
and flavor in high degree.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Every year the subway manages TO
carry more passengers. Every year the
management gravely assures the public
that It's equipment is doing its maxi
mum duty. Yet every subway trav-
eller knows there is no limit to the
compressiblity OF the human frame at
rush hours.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Shapiro. the chauffeur OF the muir
der car" Is no longer 10 have a license.
Yet he surely demonstrated his ability
TO run q car with uncommon care and
skill.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

nority. More and more the old align
ment Of parties is likely to be re-estaD-
1Shpd
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Pity the poor woman who has lost
her $4,000 fur coat. To he left I'M
protected from the cold at this holiday
season is sad.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

our readers will confer favor by advlslns
ne when they are unable to procure a COPY
~ The Tribune from their newsletter
Address: Tribune, Circulation Department
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Mr.. and Mrs. Thomas J. Preston will
give reception on December at their
house. No. l5t Trvington avenue. Orange
n. J.. for Mrs. Grover Cleveland and her
fiance. Professor Thomas ]. Preston. u.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28
Nrtu i)ork Tribmne:'
THURSDAY. NOVEMBER %, 1912.

owned and published daily by the IT nD'l I'm
ASSOCIATION New York corporal 2;.r ~ ~.
NJ peid President: Come Hamllh' SCI 49, 80
-t,r,s NJ Barrett Treasurer. Address IiiUu"s
ErWdiug 80 l54 Nassau street. New ho'A'
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Robert 3. Van Cortlandt sailed FOR
Europe yesterday on board ths Maure-
tania.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Mr.. and Mrs. George F.. Turnure re
turned 10 the city yesterday from LenoN.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Mrs. Harry $. Lehr. who arrived from
Europe on Tuesday is at the st. Regis
for a few days.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

John Ellis Roosevelt, Miss Gladys Rooss-
Welt and Miss Jean s Roosevelt will sail
for Europe to-day 10 spend the winter
abroad.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Entered at the Posoflce AZ New YORK as
Second Glass Mail Matter.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Mr. and Mrs. n. Henry Sabin and Miss
Sabln are booked 70 sail for Europe TO-
day 10 spend the winter abroad.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Mrs. Pierre Mall, wife Of the Belgian
Consul General in New York, gave re-
ception yesterday afternoon at her house in
Fifth avenue for the debut of her daugh.
ter. Miss Gertrude Mall. Mrs Mall will
give dance December 49, Previous TO
the dance dinners will be given by Mrs.
Henry L. Coe, Mrs. j. Herbert Johnston
and Mrs. Robert w. de Forest. aunts OF
the debutante. Among those who assisted
In receiving yesterday afternoon were
Miss Pauline Clarkson, Miss Louisa A..
Johnson and Miss Fisher.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Mrs. Walter F. Chappeil gave a rocep-
ton yesterday afternoon at her house in
East 55th street to introduce her daugh.
ter. Miss Louise Chappell Mrs. Chappel
was I'm a gown of mauve charmeuse and
the debutante was in white. They we're
assisted in receiving by Miss Priscilla
Bull, Miss Susanna Warren, Miss Kate
Gordon Willis, Miss Gertrude Hoyt, Miss
May Baker and others.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Mrs. Charles Elliott Warren gave the
second Of her series Of luncheons for
debutantes yesterday at her house In
West seth street. Her guests, numbering
fourteen, included among others her de-
butante daughter, Miss Susanne Warren:
Miss Louise Chappell. Miss Wallace and
Miss Elise Francke.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Mr.. and Mrs. Hamilton Fish VIII re
turn to town early next week from their
country place az Garrison, y. Y.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

/ Mrs. c. Grosveuor Wyeth VIII give
dinner on Tuesday at her house. im East
| 18TH street, and viii aftorwald take h'.
guests 10 the Junior CotilioH az SnerTys.
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Mr. and Mrs. Pembroke Jones will re-
turn to the city from their place AT Alr'e'
wilmington, y. c.. on Monday
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28
.,.nern1nr1oN RArrs.-By Nal. Postage

Foreign subscriptions 10 all countries IN inc
Universal Postal Union. including postage
DAILY AND SUNDAY:
one r,onth......Si.55 one year.,...' 'SleAo
SUNDAY ONLY.
Six months.....S3O7 one year....'..'' IL
DAILY ONLY:
one month....S1 OF one year. 'NlZ'-o
New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-11-28

Colonel and Mrs. Archibald Oracle will
give reception this afternoon at tho
Hotel Gotham to introduce their daughter
Miss Edith Temple Oracle.
The Redwood gazette. [volume] (Redwood Falls, Minn.) 1873-1940, 1912-01-30
HONOR Mr.. AND MRS. DRIPPS
Milroy WOodmen Give Them A Farewell
Reception

A reception was given at the
Woodmen Hall Thursday evening in
honor of Mr.. and Mrs. C. G. Dripps
who are to remove from Milroy after
having made their home here for the
past eight years. during which time
they made many friends, who are
sorry to see them leave and of
whom they too, will always have
pleasant memories.
Mr.. Dripps has successfully man.
aged the lumber yards at this place
for 8 years. while Mrs. Dripps has
been a faithful assistant.
The evening was spent in playing
games and was thoroughly enjoyed
by all. The latter part of the even
The Redwood gazette. [volume] (Redwood Falls, Minn.) 1873-1940, 1912-01-30

ing was spent in dancing, which the
majority enjoyed, although it
brought no little embarrassment to
those who do not approve of dane
ing.
All brought their portion of sup
per and there was plenty and some
to spare The honored guests were
presented with a handsome casserole
and gravy ladle. which they will hold
as token of remembrance from
their Milroy friends. In behalf of
our readers we wish them happy
and prosperous times in their future
home. For few weeks they will
visit at the home of their parents at
Clements and Redwood Falls. Mil
roy Echo.