New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1912-06-26
THAW SPENDS DAY
ON WITNESS STAND
SLAYER of Stanford White Thus
Passes Anniversary OF
Shooting.
REHEARSES THE CRIME
Badgered by Jerome's Cues
tions, He Is Indiffer-
ent and Stubborn
by Turns.

by Turns.
On the sixth anniversary Of the shooting
OF Stanford White on the Madison Square
Roof Garden his slayer, Harry K. Thaw'
occupied the witness stand yesterday for
the greater part Of the day at the hearing
before Justice Keogh, in White Plains. at
which Thaw is trying to prove his sanity
and obtain his release from Matteawan
Asylum Thaw stood the test fairly we'll
under the severe examination TO which he
was subjected by former District Attorney
Jerome He maintained a studied self
control most Of the time, but was afforded
frequent resting periods and plenty of time
to deliberate on his answers by the re-
peated and lengthy objections Of his coun-
sci. Clarence J. Shearn.
Mr. Jerome was blocked at every turn
by counsels objections, most Of which
were overruled by Justice Keogh, when he
would attempt TO lead Thaw 10 elaborate
upon his own ideas OF his mental condition
at various times and try TO lead the wit
ness into a discussion Of the subjects of
conspiracy, persecution and other kindred
subjects, which. according TO the alienists,
ere some Of the pet decisions entertained
by paranoiacs Mr.. Shearn was continually
on his feet with objections TO this line Of
Questions--so much so that upon two occa-
sions Thaw suggested from the witness
stand that his counsel should sit down and
take rest.
Thaw vacilated from a recalcitrant and
stubborn witness at times to a happier
mood, when he would actually smile at
Mr.. Jerome and respond with a sheepish
air 10 questions in regard 10 some Of his
escapades which seemed TO amuse him.
The witness often volunteered objections TO
questions on his own account, sometimes
on the ground that he was not testifying
as an expert, but as q lay witness, and at
other times ION the advice Of counsel"
Once he appealed TO Justice Keogh, saying:
You have promised that I should be
guarded like an ordinary witness with Mr..
Jerome Is that fair question:"
Thaw Shows Indifference.
In general the witnesses demeanor was
one Of Indifference. He sat coolly tanning
himself with a palm leaf fan, gazing out
over the heads Of the spectators in the
crowded courtroom, often without heed 70
the questions which were being asked. He
was continually asking the stenographer
10 repeat the questions TO him. He spoke
in short, jerky sentences, when he did
answer, and in such a low tone Of voice that
Mr.. Jerome frequently had 10 ask the
stenographer TO read the answers. 1t was
hard and tiresome work for all concerned,
including the court.
At one point Mr. Jerome had almost
succeeded in leading the witness into a
discussion Of insanity, making the distinc-
ton between medical and legal insanity
Thaw became interested and seemed will
ing TO continue the subject as relevant to
his own state Of mind. when the witness.
all unthinkingly apparently. illustrated his
point with a reference TO his questioner
which created an audible laugh in the
courtroom and broke the strain.
Now Mr. Jerome" Thaw said, If you
We're insane you might be even more posi-
tive that you were sane than you are at
present"
We'll. l may be insane, If this thing
keeps up" remarked Jerome.
Thaw was called to the witness stand by
counsel for the state rather Unexpectedly.
He didn't seem TO understand that he would
be wanted so soon. He arose slowly from
his seat. between his mother and his sister,
Alice, the former Countess OF Yarmouth,
and walked hesitaungly 10 the witness
chair Mr. Shearn smiled and nodded TO
him that It was all right. The state evil
IDENTIFY called him. and made him its own
witness, fearing that Thaw would not take
the stand in his own behalf.
About "NobIesse Obiee."
Mr.. Jerome entered into an abstract dis
cussion Of "noblesse obige" with the wit
ness.
DO you remember my asking you in
White Plains in 1909 about the idea of no
blesse oblige among gentlemen Mr. Je-
rome asked.
Il do" Thaw replied precisely.
II asked you about the idea that though
q gentleman might commit wrong, he
would not lie about It himself nor permit
others TO lie about it for the purpose OF
Shielding him. didn't II" asked Mr. jerome.
Before Thaw replied he said he would
Ike TO know what Mr.. Jerome was doing
rs he calling me as his witness, or just
20 answer general questions" Thaw asked
the court.
Mr.. Jerome volunteered that he was call
ing him for the purposes OF general men
tai examination, and Justice Keogh direct
ed the witness TO answer the questions.
Thaw finally replied that he couldn't an
swer the question, as II involved several
questions in one. Asked If he would allow
his counsel or others TO lie for him. he
said that he could not control his counsels
actions. Mr. shearn interposed lengthy
objection. AS this point Justice Keogh ad-
fourned court for the noon recess.
"Nr. Thaw. will you describe in detail the
killing of Stanford White by you on the
night OF June q, 1862 was the first ques-
zion asked the witness at the opening Of the
afternoon session.
Mr.. Shearn was on his feet in moment
with a long objection. protesting that this
was not a mental examination Of his client
Jerome badgered this witness for four
DAYS in a brutal attempt 10 break down his
good nature at the last hearing" Mr..
shearn shouted. 1T was brutal perform
ance. and don't intend 10 have It repeated.
I have made my offer for a free and full
medical examination Of my client. / ask
your honor TO confne the present examina-
ton TO the facts"
Justice Keogh allowed the question.
Forsetful Of Details.
Thaw replied that he did not think he
would be able 70 describe II now, as he had
forgotten a good many details. Mr.. Jerome
asked Thaw to describe what he could rec
ouect. and Mr.. shearn came forward with
another objection.
lis your memory impaired" asked Mr..
Jerome.
81 think not" Thaw replied.
Have you any present recollection Of the
hllingT'