Arizona republican., 1910-02-18
Howard and Chalmers Arque
 Both Sides of Question CITY CLUBS MONTHLY FEAST
Municipal Electric Business Was the Vital Topic That Made the Dinner One of the Most Interesting Ses. sions Yet Held


 debate at the monthly dinner of the City Club held last night in the k. of P Hall. Former Governor Kibbcy was the presiding officer. The speak CTS of the evening were Attorney Howard. who spoke for municipal ownership; and l.. H. Chalmers. who took the negative side of the qucs- ton.
 Every plate at the two tables was taken. almost every member of the club being present. Judge kibbey announced that the membership of the club now stands at 142, with eight more candidates who have not been heard from. The limit of the mem bership was fixed at l5o at last months meeting.
 Tn introducing the speakers Judge Kibbey limited them to twenty min utes each. and those who desired to take part in the general discussion to five minutes. Judge Kibbey stat ed that as the chief object of the club was free and open discussion of current subjects of interest: and as the club does not take any stand as a whole on either side. of a question. asked the press to refrain from any comment on what is said at the din- ners. printing only the bare state ments of the speakers.
 Mir. Towards speech in part was -ss follows:
 "Twenty-seven years ago the first electric light plants were installed in the cities and villages Of this coun- try. People knew then nothing of
  forward a quarter of century. Every little town wanted it's electric plant Men without means began to promote them. Most of the cspitali- zation was pure atmosphere and franchises were readily granted to anybody.
 "A franchise is permission to charge the public more for a commodity than it is worth. It is that and nothing more. If light were sold at it's cur rent valuation the franchise 10 sell it would be worthless.
 Turn over to an expert accountant the figure given out by this company and he will tell you that the com pany is insolvent and capitalized at s500.000. while the officers of the company value their holdings at s400.- 900 more than ii is worth Why ? They capitalize the privileges of the streets and their franchise to charge what they please
 The question is. Is it better 10 permit them to do this or is it better for you to conduct your own plant, for the city doesn't have to buy its rights and privileges
 Hr rI careful comparison of conditions in Alameda, California, a city that owns it's own electric plant. and Phoenix It was an elaborate comparison. re- plcte with figures down to the last kilowatt. Before he had had time to make his point. his twenty minutes were up and he stopped in the middle of the argument.
 M r. Chalmers said: I'm inclined to think that municipal ownership of waterworks is good thing. Whether 1t can be extended to an electric plant ia d question. Tho capital invested in an electric plant cannot be turned quickly so that i'm prOvements must come from addi- tional funds. To meet the growth of the city the local company expects to spend SS0.0O0 next year. on a cap italization of sT9o.Q0o and more. If you bond this city for s300,000 and the fiIna comes for Improvements to meet new conditions and new growth. you uill not be able to. make the consumer pay for the Improvements. 1t will mean another bond issue"
 NIT. Chalmers then gave the history of the power contract with the gov crnment. The coinp3ny owned cer tain water rights on the Salt River and the reclamation project made it necessary to make changes. The contract was drawn up on a basis of ono and a half cents per kilowatt hour for the power used. He esti- mated that about s60.00O year is paid the government for power all of which goes toward the expense of building the dam. He said that the company used only about one fif- tcenth Of the power that will be pro- duced by the Roosevelt dam.
 Tn regard to meters. Mir. Chalmers said: 'I hardly think any one pres .nt will accuse the people running this company of d desire to steal pennies by means of false meters. | am in favor of the appointment by the city council Of an inspector of meters
 Speaking of the capitalization of
 (Coptinued on paxs n