Los Angeles herald., 1910-03-05
WRANGLES MAKE
SESSION DRAG
PINCH0T- -BALLINGER CASE CO.
ING SLOWLY
CHARGES SECRETARY DECEIVED
PRESIDENT TAFT
Former Forester Admits His First
Hand knowledge of Ballin-
gers official Acts
Is Limited
Associated Pressl

Associated Press1
WASHINGTON March 4.-The Bal
linger-Pinchot investigation dragged in
two sessions today.
Mr. Vertrees, counsel for Mr.. Balm
ger, continued his ross-examinatlon OF
Mr.. Pinchot He elected some inter-
esting information, but for the most
part the day was taken up with
wrangles between the attorney and the
witness, and sometimes between Mr..
yertrees and counsel for the other
SIDE
Mr.. Pinchot complained to the com
mittee that 1t was difficult to explain
forest service matters to man so
little informed on the subject as Mr..
Vertrees appeared to be.
The members OF the committee
showed considerable impatience during
the day, and Senator Flint repeatedly
urged counsel to stop wrangling and
try to get down to facts.
Senator Flint declared that one letter
had been placed in the record at least
twenty different times.
Knowledge of Acts Limited
Mr.. Pinchot admitted his frst-hand
knowledge of Mr.. Ballinger's acts was
very limited, but he reiterated the
secretary of the interior had deceived
the president concerning the Cunning
ham coal cases and had made state
ment to the president which was OBJ
viously untrue.
Mr. Vertreas in the afternoon ques-
toned Mr.. Pinchot closely regarding
the sending of rangers to agricultural
colleges and brought out that Mr.. Pin
chot was under the impression he had
informed the secretary of agriculture
of what he was doing, but was not
willing TO swear to 1t.
The attorney sought to show that
Mr.. Pinchot and former Secretary Of
the Interior Garfield were in the habit
of doing what they thought best re-
gardless OF the law. and that their an
tagonism to Mr.. Ballinger was brought
about by his determination to proceed
wholly within the law.
Pinchot Resumes Testimony
As soon as Mr.. Pinchot took the
stand this morning Attorney Vertrees
asked him this question:
Mr.. Pinchot, please state one single
fact of your own knowledge that re-
fleets on Mr.. Ballinger's conduct eth
er as commissioner of the land office
or as secretary of the interior-not
hearsay, not what somebody else said
or wrote-of your own knowledge"
The witness hesltated. Then he adj
dressed Senator Nelson:
Mr.. Chairman, in order to answer
that question because of the nice dis
elimination It involves, 1 must ask
your permission TO refer to a list l
have here of the things Mr.. Ballinger
has DONE"
The permission was granted and af-
ter perusal of the list, Mr.. Pinchot
said:
",rhe fact of my own knowledge is
Io1 Iaff n ha
of November Is. with which he en-
closed Ronald's letters. These letters
contain misstatements which / have
already shown and am prepared fur
ther to show"
Mr.. Vertrees-You have testified
here largely by Inference and innu-
endo. Now state what you personally
know Mr. Ballinger said or did.
Mr.. Pinchot-The letter of Novem-
ber 10
what else?"
Never Discussed Cunningham Case
'T never discussed the Cunningham
cases with Mr.. Ballinger The only
knowledge l have at first hand is linn
tied TO writings that are not disputed"
Questioned as to the reprimand he
gave Assistant Law officer Shaw and
Assistant Forester Price, Mr.. Pinchot
admitted that, 'at heart" he approved
of the motives of the two in doing
what they did, but did not approve OF |
their methods of doing 1t. He denied !
that either he or any of his people |
owned stock in the Pocahontas Coal |
"The family has some stock in n coal |
company In Illinois," he added, but L !
have not"
Mr.. Pirehot said that up to the time |
he sent CLAWS to President Taft, the |
relations between himself and Mr.. Bal |
linger had been fairly friendly, not |
more than that"
He was not more friendly because he
knew Ballinger's views as to conser-
vation were different from his own.
Then you were unfriendly?"
mo, distrusted him."
You mean distrusted his policies?"
distrusted his policies and what he
would do"
$50, Mr.. Pinchot." said Vertrees. "af-
Ter all that statement you made to
the committee when you took the
stand, all you can cite against Mr..
ne letter OF November 10 to the pres
dent?"
i said expected to prove some of
ne things charged by other wit
lesses."
49, thNaA A%hhSI VI FFQlSSI n
Referring to his testimony that Bal
niger as commissioner OF the land Of
Ice protested against the creation of
ne Chugach forest in Alaska in which
'ome OF the Cunningham claims are
ocated, Mr.. Pinchot said he had not
cad Ballinger's letter OF protest ano
lid not know what reasons he gave.
Mr.. Vertrees-Don't you think II
would nave been fair to have read 1t
'efore submitting 1t here with the in
erences that might be drawn from
our testimony?
Mr.. Pinchot-My knowledge of Mr..
3allinger's position was based on an
with him in Mr.. Garfield.s
'flce and l understood it to be hostile
O what we have since come to call
Pinchot declared that while the LET
er of protest had been on file with
he committee for some time, a reguia-
ion Of the committee permitting coun-
ell only to examine the documents had
revented his reading ii.
A long discussion ensued as to the
OF the rule, but the mat
er was put over for consideration in
xecutive session. Attorney Brandeis .
emarked that the order OF the com
nittee had worked a great hardship
n counsel.
When Representative DENLY stated
l,o& 1.o ,.loinIx1 1spdarefood oC,,naa1 ~ -