New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1910-11-17
NO PROFIT ON COMMUTERS
P. R. r. Official Says Even New
Fares Show a Loss.
HEARING BEGINS IN WALDORF
Members Of Leagues Listen
Keenly Despite Technical
Trend of Examination.

heculy DeSp1Ge IeCHulCdl
Trend of Examination.
The cry of commuters over the increased
| rates charged them by the railroads for
their daily trips to New York was met yes
terday with a statement by John G.. Rogers
assistant general manager of the Pennsyl-
vania Railroad. that his road has been
losing seven cents on each commuter under
the old rate. and that. despite the increased
| charges since July. the Pennsylvania
revenue from suburban traffic is not suffi-
Gent to cover the operating expenses of
| that service
| Mr.. Rogers was a witness at the hearing
before Commissioner John NJ. Harlan, who
| began an inquiry yesterday on behalf of
the Interstate Commerce Commission into
| the reasonableness of communication rates
| from New Jersey and Connecticut to New
York. The Myrtle Room of the Waldorf
Astoria was crowded with representatives
! of various commuters leagues and indi-
vidual commuters, to whom the highly
| technical trend of the examination did not
seem tiresome
One of the chief arguments of commuters
has been that the railroads should not look
| for direct profit from commuters traffic
| They advanced the theory that the increase
OF population in the regions surrounding
the metropolis would bring with il a cor
responding development of freight traffic
the revenue from which would not only re-
imbUrse the railroads for their possible loss
on the suburban passenger traffic, but
would make the whole venture a highly
profitable one.
Always a Loss Somewhere.
Mr.. Rogers admitted under questions bv
counsel for the commission that each rail-
road has some service that does not nav,
and still it continues it for the reason that
| the loss may be made up Indirectly.
/ really think that the commuter should
pay his way he said. at least as far as
| the operating expenses of this service go.
1 mean by this that we have not consd-
cred in this the fixed charges and interest
| on the investment, which are charged
against all other kinds of railroad service
MT Rogers first was asked by George S.
Patterson, counsel for the PENNSYLVANIA
Railroad, about the manner in which the
operating expenses of each branch of the
| service We're eSta blished- Mr.. Rogers said
| that the terminal expenses in New York
ana New Jersey and the ferry across the
river amount to a little more than nine
! cents passenger. Under the old rates the
| road received an average of II cents pas
senger for each fourteen mile trip-a net
annual loss of seven cents on each COM
muter
is 1t true then, that your communication
service was conducted at a loss prior To
July &?' asked Attorney General Edmund
| Wilson. Of New Jersey
Yes" answered Mr.. Rogers, our loss
per passenger was seven cents"
Then the $4,000 more that you receive
now through the increase of the rates does
not cover the loss and you are still los
ing?" asked Mr. Wilson
Yes. I think So said Mr. Rogers
DO you think it fair" internosed Com
missioner Harlan. that the commuter
should be charged as much as the through
| passenger on the terminal expenses, though
he uses the station twice daiIy?'
Il think So" said Mr.. Rogers, Eat least
as far as operating expenses go. 1t would
be different if we We're 10 consider fixed
| charges and interest on the capital
Analyses Cost of Traffic.
Mr. Rogers ascribed the higher cost of
commuters traffic to an increased ex-
pense due TO stops. larger train crew and
empty hauls- The passengers. he said. av-
miles. The average expense train mile
in the communication service is 81 %. while
that of the through service is only 81 IS.
excluding terminal expenses and office
charges Yet the revenue from the through
service is s. % a train mile. he said against
81 SO of the commuter service. including
terminal expense. He also testified that
the Pennsylvania increased wages on its
two New Jersey divisions by So, 900 since
1901
Frank Lyon counsel for the commission
asked Mr.. Rogers how the New York &
New Jersey Railroad, whose traffic con-
sists of so per cent of passenger service.
had doubled its profit in nine years. while
the Pennsylvania was performing the same
service at a loss, but Mr. Rogers said he
had no information this point.
James r. Wood, passenger traffic man
ager of the Pennsylvania, was the first
witness called yesterday He admitted that
the question OF a reasonable return on the
investment had not figured in the revision
Of the rates. but that the increase had been
made arbitrarily.
Mr. Wood said that no agreement existed
between the McAdOO tunnel system and the
Pennsylvania as to the carrying Of pas
sengers and that the Pennsylvania paid the
tube five cents for each passenger. which,
he said, should be added TO the loss sus-
tanned by the road its commuters.
In the six months ended October /, Mr.
Wood said. 1893 700 Pennsylvania passen-
gers used the tunnels out Of total of l.
1851. The hearing viii be continued to-
day.