The sun., 1909-02-21
As TO CITY CROWDING.
Engineer Lewis and John MARTA Debate
subways and . cent Fares.

The chief feature OF the conference on
the prevention OF the city crowding,
which was held last night in the audi.
Association, Sis West Fifty seventh street
under the auspices Of the committee on
con gestion OF population in New York
was a disagreement between Nelson p
Lewis. chief engineer f'the Board of
Estimate and Apportionment,' and John
Martin on the subject Of five cent fares.
MIR. Lewis contended that some persons
in their desire TO benefit the laboring
man by making it possible for him to ride
unlimited distances for FIVE cents failed
20 perceive that 1T was not altogether
fair TO corporations To compel them tc
operate rapid transit roads AZ a loss, II
is even now possible. he declared. 10 ride
much further in New fork city for a
nickel than 1t is In Glasgow and other
foreign cities " here cheap rates are sup.
posed TO prevail.
While il in true that in some ~ the se
places one NAV ride n short distance
for two cents. IL is also true that the con
ductor comes around at frequent inter
walls TO collect more. and ia no place IL
il possible to ride for distance as great
az hat from borough Hall To The PronK
for 80 small Il sum as IL charged on our
subway.
II the " orkingman was obliged to pay
dime for transportation to. some de-
sirabie suburban district. MIR. Lewis
continued his carfsre would cost him
only about $40 a year. The additional
expense would be more than Offset by the
amount he could. save in rent or by the
/ comfort he would get from better facili-
ties for living.
Mr. Martin said that unless more rapid
transit Hines were built within the next
year or two the rents which were already
absorbing an undue proportion Of the in
come of the lower class Of wage earners
would increase at least 20 cents month
for at least 800 .0O0 OF such families, ma king
a sum of 81. 100 900. the interest on s54,-
OOO.0 600. Would 1t not be better. he asked,
for the city TO put that So ,0OO, ON In a sub
way than TO have IL come out OF the
pockets Of poor wretches who already
As for the Ave cent fare. he considered
that the problem before the public now
was 70 provide az quickly NJ possible
more lines OF fast passage with a max Simum
fare Of five cents He agreed with Mr..
could not afford TO build subways on this
basis and he thought therefore that il
was up TO the city to do it.
The question Of rapid transit was not,
he said, primarily "a financial question,
but q fundamental social problem and
should be met as such.
DR.. Morris Loeb and DR.. Edward T.
Devine of the Charity Organization So
ciety suggested that the ongestion prob
lem could be partially solved by the
distribution Of population throughout
the country by means OF industrial en-
ployment bureaus which would find
work for persons who were just able TO
earn baEe living. DIR. Loeb advocated
also the development by the city of the
outlying country. even in New Jersey
so that it might become sufficiently at
tractive TO those who otherwise would
live in the crowded districts south OF
Fourteenth street TO induce them to
take up residence there.
Prof T.. r. Seligman OF Columbia Uni
versity spoke on city planning in foreign
cities