The Detroit times. [volume] (Detroit, Mich.) 1903-1920, 1909-03-09
CITY OWNERSHIP
IS DISCUSSED
PRO AND CON
CHICAGO TRACTION 2 MAoNATE
BATTLES AGAINST r. 3. INGRAM
AND G. w. Moo9E-MAYoR AIRS
VIEWS.

since his election, gave his views. re-
garding street railway settlement In
the meeting OF Detroit Post. e. A. r..
Monday evening. He came from the
city hall, where he had been listen
ing TO addresses on municipal owner
ship, TO talk 10 the veterans. Before
his speech was ended. the mayor had
got into a lively wrangle with some
municipal ownership advocates among
the old soldiers.
IF the people OF Detroit say they
want municipal ownership, there is no
man In the city who will try more
earnestly to bring IL about than ] Will,
said the mayor.
He spoke first OF the obstacles TO
city ownership of car lines. then laid
down his own plan. which would pro-
vide for the purchase OF the lines as
fast as the franchises expire. payment
of them 10 be made by the Issue OF
bonds 10 be subscribed for among the
people of Detroit and secured by
20-year eight-tic kets-for-a-quarter Sc
curity franchise.
In lieu of this, the mayor reverted
to his old plan OF working agree
ment, indefinite as to time. by which
the road should retain sufficient
money TO keep its service up and al
low for depreciation, and then pay
over all profits except 8 per cent on
actual investment to the city treas
ury, TO be used in building up sink
ing fund for the eventual purchase OF
the lines.
Mcvlcar Objects to Mayors Plan.
John McVicar and Alex Blaine OBJ
jected to the mayors plans as too IN
definite and warm debate ensued.
MCVicar declared that no agreement
by which the lines would remain in
private hands would stop corruption.
One of the arguments made by the
mayor against municipal ownership
under the Cleveland plan was that he
did not believe the bonds would sell
outside the city except on franchise
security more liberal To the bond-hold-
ers than the citizens would care TO
give. He declared himself as unWill-
ing TO grant franchise as security
for bonds more liberal than the city
would not grant to the ID. L. X. ana
thus gamble the citys future against
the success OF a municipal ownership
experiment.
The Committee of so session in the
council chamber, which the mayor
first attended, drew goodiy crowd
OF auditors. Chairman Eddy and Sec
rotary Remand had SO arranged II that
there were three advocates of muni-
cipal ownership and three opponents
of that plan. The gallery showed its
sympathy with municipal ownership
but attempts 10 ask questions were
sternly repressed.
Isaac ~ Payne spoke first In favor
OF municipal ownership. Charles V.
Weston. Of the South Side Elevated
railroad, OF Chicago, was the next
speaker and he portrayed the trans
portation business as being In a sad
state. wherein the urban roads must
get REIMBURSEMENT OF fares upward
within a few years or face bankruptcy.
This fear he based OH the fact that re-
ceipts per passenger per mile have
decreased as the hauls grew longer
Weston a Pessimist.
THE ride is not the proper unit Tor
consideration" he declared, and quot
ed statistics TO show that the uniform
fare had failed in Germany and given
way to the zone system, SO tnat re-
ceipts are higher there per passenger
mile, although half as much per ride,
as in the United States. In New
York, he said, the electric railways
could no longer operate at prof1t.
even at a fair capitalization, on ac-
count OF the length OF hauls. His own
road was stated to be undercapitaliZed
and yet to pay but 2.27 per cent, the
cost per passenger per mile being but
$40 cent. Boston lines were steadily
growing less profitable as extensions
were made and the year when divl'
dends would cease could be calculated.
Transportation OF people in large
cities he considered natural monop-
oily, and business in which municip-
al ownership would be within the
realm of speculation and experiment.
Weston's suggestion OF settlement
was one where the rate OF fare was
based on the haul. and where. as in
Chicago, the city gets large share
Of the profits over reasonable inter
est on the capital honestly involved.
r. r. Ingram spoke next, declaring
that people do not get bargains in ex-
perience and that the 80 years war"
In street railway matters had given
unpleasant experiences but valuable
ones. although the fight had been In
politics most OF the time and had
sometimesp roved to cover other
issues.
I'VE are in the position OF man
who made a bad contract, which Is
now about To expire" he said. He add
ed that while the terms of Il franchise
may be fair when passed. they be-
come eXtortionate as the city grows
and transportation costs are reduced
by increased travel and invention.
Creates Privileged Class.
The great question is that of divid-
ing public and private business" he
asserted. Granting special privileges
creates privileged class. II Is sim
ply farming out our governmental
rights.
The street railway question has
never been settled in any city finally
except by municipal ownership. Ii is
far from settled now In Chicago.
have never seen am reason why the
city cannot run cars as cheaply as a
private company. They will be run
by human beings In any event, ana
they will be the same human beings,
except that they will be subject in one
case to the wishes OF the people"
Both Weston ana Ingram quoted
foreign railway statistics freely anu
drew opposite conclusions from them.
Attorney Joseph II. Clark began by
slamming the public lighting commits
sion. He declared that private cor
poration could clean the city hall and
run the elevators for 90 percent of
the present cost, ard said that mum.