The Birmingham age-herald., 1909-01-12
JACOB SCHIFF ON
 WITNESS STAND Is Member of Kuhn, Loeb &
 Company IN GOVERNMENTS SUIT To Dissolve the Merger of the Harri- man ailroads-Witness Does Not Remember Certain Important
 Details and Incidents.
N GOVERNMENTS SUIT

New York. January 11-Jacob H. .Schiff of Kuhn, Loeb & Co.,. fiscal agents for the Union Pacific railroad was witness today in the hearing in the governments suit to dissolve the merger of the Hartman roads. MT. Schiff Is a co-defendant in the case. He was questioned by Clarence A. Sever ance of counsel for the government. He identified the plan of reorganization of the present Union Pacific company, under which it took over the property and commenced business in 1898.
 MT. Schiff said he was member of the board of directors when the com pany took over the property and that $100,000,0 900 was issued to put the com pany in funds to pay for Southern Pa ciic stock and perhaps the oregon Short line. When the Great Northern purchased the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy railroad, he said, he thought there were one or two discussions be- tween Mr. Hartman, MT. Hill and him self.
 MT. Schiff said that Kuhn, Loeb &
 
 Pacific stock in 1901 and sold it to the Union Pacific and Oregon Short line.
 What was the purpose of the Union Pacific and Great Northern in securing stock of the Northern Pacific?" asked MT. Severance.
 "Mr Hartman can answer that ques- tion better than I could. But I be- fl to int of the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy, a sort of half interest. MT. Hartman did not know what havoc the passage of control of the Burlington to an- other road or roads might work for the Union Pacific"
 You did not want the Northern roads to come in?'
 Things worked out differently, but we wanted to hold on to the situation as it then existed"
 MT Schiff said he knew that the western terminals of the Northern Pa cifc at Portland was the same as that of the Union Pacific and subsidiary lines.
 MT. Severance then questioned the witness about a conference in which MT. Schiff said that MT. Rockefeller, H. H. Rogers, MT. Hartman, James Stillman, MT. Ripley and MT Morretze and himself took part. MT. Schiff said that they wanted representation on the Atchison board of directors be- cause they had made large purchases of common stock of that road and the laws of Arizona gave them the right to have two members on the board. MT. Rogers and Henry c. Prick were chosen.
 MT Severance asked whether MT. Harriman's name was suggested as a director and whether MT. Ripley ob- jected, but MT. Schiff said he did not re- call any such incident.
 MT Hartman has testified that the object of your effort to secure an agreement was to bring about better understanding between the roads so that they would not be working against each other" said MT. Severance.
 "I don't know" said MT. Schiff. Kuhn, Loeb and Co. are not in posi- tion to know all ab out these details.
 Stuyvesant Fish, formerly president of the Illinois Central railroad, was the next witness.
 He said 1t was feasible for the Union Pacific to compete with the Southern Pacific by shipping from Portland to San Francisco by water route. An all water route from New York to San Francisco by way of the Panama canal. he said, would compete with all rail lines or the Sunset line.