The Washington herald. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1906-1939, 1909-01-30

gas from being manufactured a. all,
the 10 per cent limit for carbon m0n0xide
Now. evidence has been put before this
committee that water gas IS Eve or six
times more deadly OF dangerous than
coal gas containing less than 10 per cent
carbon m0noxioe-
Mr. Barker-That Is, / think. you viii
notice, a poor assumption. as the state
ment is mace by the people who made
Il. There Is no question but what carbon
monoxide IS a violent poison. and other
things being equal the more you have OF
IL in a mixture the more poisonous that
mixture might DC. but other things are
not equal when you are comparing
illuminating coal gas and Illuminating
water gas. so that statement does not
apply TO the two things When people
undertake 10 say that it is a certain
number OF times more poisonous because
Of the Increase in the amount. thai is
pure assumption. There is absolutely no
evidence about K; there have never been
any experiments TO support the PROPOSE
ton.
Mr.. slns-what do you have 70 say TO
these experiments when you expose ami
nal life to these gases. coal and water
gas. and ANIMALS exposed to the water
gas de in much less time and are fatally
poisoned in much less time? Do you con-
tend that that proposition IS not tTue7
Mr.. Barker-No. sir; 1 do not. ] think
that is true; that is shown by the ex-
periments Ia Massachusetts 70 was in
Massachusetts that these experiments
were demonstrates. but the fact is that
the exposures 10 Illuminating gas which
are fatal are exposures Tor a sufficient
length Of time. as a rule, so shat death
-
gas was so-called coal gas or water gas
I meaR Tor practical exposures
Mr.. Sims-In other words. the practical
exposures are necessarily fatal. If fatal
at all. in either case; is that what you
mean2
Mr.. BeTkeF-T do not mean 70 say that
they are necessarily fatal, because We
have more cases Of recovery. after ex-
posure, both from coal gas and from
mixed gas. than We have fatalities
Dir. Sims-I understand you 20 state IN
n former part q your testimony that
there vas a greater number Of actual
pois0nings from exposure 10 water gas
or mixed gas, than there are from ex-
posures 20 coal gas. that Oftener the
trouble with coal gas was sufoeation
rather than actual poisoning Am cor
rect in that statement?
Mr Barker-That is right
Mr.. Sims-Now, then, by exposing the
people, BY accident or otherwise. 10 two
gases, one thai almost universally pofs0us
and the other does not always, but Affects
by suTocation. would not the chances FOR
recovery IN exposure be greater where the
trouble would be sufocation rather than
actual poisoning
Mr.. BaTker-The actual cases. many hun
dreds OF them. have been investigated and
considered by Us. and they leave that
proposition, think I might say, inde-
terminate.
Mr.. Sims-Are you a member OF the
board of health Of Massachusetts
Mr. Barker-No sIr, or the Gas ard
Electric Light Commission
Mr.. Sims-Are you a physician?
Mr.. Barker-No sir.
Mr. Sims-I did not remember; I did
not know but what you were.
Mr.. Barker-N0 sir. hope I make my
understanding Of il clear. and that IS.
that In tie Investigation OF q great mum
Der OF these fatal cases. the exposure
was Tor a sufficient length OF time. and
the exposure IS ordinarily. from the ma
ture Of things. for a sufficient length Of
time. 10 cause death. whether il was coal
gas or water gas: that IS 70 say, even
il II we're theoretically prOvable that tbe
coal gas would xiii in a certain number
OF hours. and that the water gas would
kin in a certain less number Of hours.
the exposures q the fatal cases are al
most Invariably sufficiently long to bring
death in either ease
Mr. Sims-Relativeiy what difference Of
time would il require 10 produce fatal re-
suits by the exposure 70 mixed or water
gas and exposure to the other gas2
Ar. Barker 90 not think anybody
could answer that question. except to say
that it would probably be the same result.
Mr. Sims-In water Cas2
Mr. Barker-In water gas
Mr.. Sins-And therefore YOU conce5e
that the length OF exposure 10 produce
fatal or dangerous results IS less in
water gas. or mixed gas. than II would be
in an exclusively coal gas7 lou admit
that as a general prop0Siti0n2
Mr. Barker should think that might
be so.
Mr.. Sims-NoE. admitting that Il is ne
cessarily 50. your contention IS that prac-
tically !, IS not so?
Mr. Barker-That is nv observation.
Mr. Sims-TO the extent Of the cases
you have observed7
Mr. Barker-Xes sir
8Ir- Sims-But no further: I mean. the
literature on the subject does not bear
you out. does it?
Mr.. Barker-The literature upon the
subject Is purely technical. and does not
deal with practical occurrences. OF
course. I think I understand the Iitera-
ture upon the subject. and I am not in
conflict with Il al all
Mr.. Sims-YOu may not be. but from
what / have heard said 70 the committee
you seem % be. I understand the great
difficulty OF laymaR undertaking TO
question sn expert, and I know with
what great facility tho expert can give
an absolutely correct answer 10 the queS-
ton. and yet miss q great deal that the
committee ought TO know.
Mr. Barker am not here particularly
as an expert.
NJ. Sims-I know you are not inter-
ested one way OF the other.
Mr.. Barker have not any personal in
/ terest IN the matter
Mr.. Sims-You are simply a public off,
Ger in Massachusetts doing your duty. as
understand IL
Er Barker-And I hope TO make myself
clear to the committee.
Mr. Sims-You know. when an expert Is
giving testimony to a nonexpert, Il Is a
/ little difficult to make II clear In other
words. We DO not understand II. and con-
seque1tly our questions may seem tedious
I to you; as far as 7 am concerned, they
may be. but simply want 10 get at the
/ facts. II there IS no practical benefit to
/ the people in the way OF saving life and
health IN using coal gas exclusively. I see
no argument for passing the bill before
Us, but If health and life are involved, as
! far as I an concerned. II Il puts gas Up
TO $50 a thousand. 7 am not measuring
the expense Of the gas with the results 10
/ life and health.
Mr Barzer-Our duty has called Us 70
investigate this subject from a practical
standpoint. and that investigation has
baA- made v~ffb q ft7II IruouIafra NJ fhe