Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1909-01-31


time, during which this. coal gas had peel
flowing into the room, and from these eH-
periments he deduced. or made up certain
theories. as to how soon peIsoi,
would be killed by the admission OF coal
| gas into a room, and of carbureted water
gas into a room. He did not try 1t: He
simply determined the percentage OF coai
gas that would be In a room after GER
! tain amount of flow into the room.
Mr.. Sims-Do you controvert the fact
that carbureted water gas is more dam
| gerouS than coal gas?
Theory and Fact.
Mr.. Practically I do. Theo-
retically it is. Practically. SO far as
have gone into the statistics. it is not.
Mr. Sims-I just wanted to understand
your position.
| Mr.. Fo-atall-This committee made it's
report in 1899. One of the recommended
| tons of that report is that power should
| be conferred upon a central department to
make regulations enforceable by adequate
penalties limiting the proportion OF car
bonic oxide to II per cent or such per
cent rs the department might consider
desirable. They did not say fiatfoOtedly
! IL per cent. but they said l. per cent o.
such per cent as the department might
consider desirable. That report has been
before parliament and before the authori-
ties in England for nearly ten years, and
no action has ever been taken upon it.
fdI - Tic pOlul "ioIl ~ ihdhC dpOoi
that
Mr.. Sims-Is that intended to be against
action here?
Mr.. Forstall-It shows how much i'm
portance parliament attaches to that re-
port.
Mr.. Sims-They perhaps were not max
ing any carbon monoxide gas.
Mr. FoTstall--Yes; the testimony shows
that Belfast was sending out gas contain
ing carbon monoxide up to Is or 70 per
cent at times.
Mr.. Sims-Perhaps they ascertained that
your contention was right. that practical
ly 1T was not any more dangerous.
Mr.. Forstall-I think that is what they
settled down to. At any rate, they took
no action. and the use of carbureted water
gas has been going on without restriction
ever since this report was made.
Mr.. Murphy-There has been some tes-
timony before us here that would indi-
cate that carbon monoxide gas produces
almost instantaneous death. 1 take 1T
from what YOU give us as contained In
that report that that would not CORE
spond with what Prof. Taldane's ideas
were.
Times When Fatal.
Mr.. Forstall-Carbon monoxide straight
does act in that way. If you go into an
atmosphere that contains 90 per cent of
carbon monoxide you will never get out
unless there is somebody to pull you out.
have seen that in my own experience in
the gas works. I have seen a man so
over almost inside of two or three sec
onds. when he got into very small
space. sixteen or possibly twenty cubic
feet. into which straight carbureted water
gas had flowed in considerable volume.
We got him out and he revived. We
brought him around and he was all right
the next day, but when he got in there
he went down instantly when he got into
it.
Mr. Moore-Nhat was it, asphyxiation
or suffocation?
Mr.. Forstali-Partly asphyxiation and
partly poisoning.
Mr.. Moore-I asked that question here
the other day and was told that it was
not suffocation.
Mr.. Forstall-Of course. this gas flowed
into this small place, only few cubic
feet
Mr.. Murphy-Your explanation makes 1t
clear. 1t was not clear before.
Mr.. Forstall-Coming now to the ques-
ton of the comparative danger between
coal gas and carbureted water gas.
Mr.. Sims-That is the interesting part
of the whole thing.
Based Upon Table.
Mr.. Forstall-Practically the whole or
large part. of the information that has
been given on that subject In the hearings
SO far has been based upon table pre-
po'Su ny IL HI lcpoi hat
table is made up on the assumption that
all the conditions In America and in Eng
land are exactly the same except the
amount of carbon monoxide in the ilIumi-
mating gas distributed in the two coun
tries. On those premises he has calculates
that while the actual deaths by gas
poisoning in England and Wales on the
basis of the amount of gas distributed for
London was three
Mr.. Taylor-Three what?
Mr.. Forstall-Three people: that IS, the
number of deaths per million cubic feet
of gas SO distributed throughout Eng
land and Wa.eS was such that for the
amount of gas distributed in London it
would amount to three per year.
Mr. Sims-Three million feet?
Mr. FOrstall-No. three people to the
whole amount of gas distributed, thirty
two billion feet.
Mr.. Sims-Only three deaths?
Mr.. Forstall-Only three deaths: and
then he goes on to figure that while that
Is the case in England and Wales. if
carbureted water gas was distributed as
In Boston. the deaths would be go. Per-
haps l had better give the Academia
deaths-that is, the total. The accidental
deaths would be AGO. Nobody committed
suicide in England by gas that year ap-
parently. because the total deaths and the
accidental deaths were the same. The
total deaths on the Boston rate would
have been 100, in New York they would
nave Deen l3O. In brooklyn 10, in Chi
cago or rather on the Chicago rate. they
would have been 305. and on the Phila-
delphia rate 100. Now IL seems to me
that that table shows conclusively that
the conditions are not the same, and that
any assumption built upon the idea that
the conditions are the same is very err
roneous, because here Is Boston with
30 per cent water gas showing deaths at
the rate of AGO per year and Chicago with
100 per cent water gas, showing deaths at
the rate of only 800 per year, and Brook
lyn with % per cent Of water gas, show
ing deaths at the rate of only 2l5. If IL
was the water gas that was doing it en-
tirely, the rate should have shown a
much closer agreement than that. DIR.
Haldane gives in his own report the rea
son why the conditions are not the same,
and why you cannot reason from English
conditions TO American conditions or from
American conditions to English condi-
II. He says in speaking of another table:
average, but for unfavorable conditions Of
ventilation. In rooms WITH an open fire
place the average ventilation would. to
Judge from the data given above, be near
L. double that existing under unfavorable
conditions. This, however, would not
apply TO the many small rooms not sup
piled with IL fireplace. and 1t is toward
these rooms that measures of precaution
in connection with the distribution of
water gas should more specially be di-
rected.
Rooms With Fireplaces.
Then he goes on to recommend that
rooms without fireplaces should not have