Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1909-02-01
MORE FACTS ON Gas
Experts Continue Testimony
at Capitol Hearing.
CARBON M0NOxIDE OLD
Engineer Forstall Says It Has Long
Been Used.
FULL STENOGRAPHIC REPORT
House Committee Hears Further
Evidence Relative to Qualities
of Coal and Water Gas.
FULL sIENOGRAPHIC REPORT

to limit the amount of carbon monoXide
IN the gas supply of the District of CO.
luInbia to 10 per cent. The witness under
examination was Alfred Forstall, gas en-
gineer of the city OF New York:
Plant Made Useless.
Dir. Sims-Do you assume that the
present plant would be absolutely destroy
ed and worthless?
Mr.. Forstall-Practcaliy, yes. sir. IF
they are only making 70 per cent of coal
gas the coal gas units must be too small
10 form part of an economical plant-that
Is. to manufacture the larger amount of
coal gas that would have to be manu-
featured. and of course the water gas part
would be absolutely thrown away because
it could not be used
MIR. Slms-Do you mean that this $1,000
600 would be spent for the building of a
new plant entirely:
Mr.. ForStall-Yes.
Mr.. Sims-And no more than seven mil
lions?
Mr.. Forstall-I am taking Mr.. McIlhen-
ny's figures. | have taken the lower fig
IRE.
Mr.. SimS-You are not counting that the
present plant would he worth something?
Mr.. Forstall-No: | am merely calculat-
ing how much it would add to the present
cost of the gas. that II cents thousand
would be added to the present cost of the
gas.
Mr.. Sims-Do you contemplate an abso-
ute loss TO the present company of their
present property.
Mr.. Forstal-It would be a loss except
only the land and the scrap value of
what was on the land.
Mr.. SimS-That is what I say. Do you
contemplate an absolute loss, or only such
Joss as they will absolutely actually I'M
dergo?
l.. Mr.. Forstall-I am contemplating that
haI TO 70 Ice
up their supply, and there will BE- no offset
against that.
: Mr.. Sims-It will be net seven mil
lions?
i! Mr.. Forstall-A net s7oOO,O0O. The point
] am making is that it would add 81
cents per thousand feet, irrespective of
any increase in the manufacture; it
would add II cents per thousand feet to
. Mr. Sms-The outlay on the investm Mt?
:. Mr.. Forsall-Yes; d per cent on $1,000
600
Mr. Sims-And if the present price of a
dollar thousand feet is reasonable 1t
would make the cost of gas $1.21?
:. Mr.. Forstall-Yes.
Mr. Sims-And if it is not reasonable it
would be 81 cents on whatever is the
reasonable value?
Mr. ForstaIl-It would be 81 cents more
on what is the reasonable value now
: Mr.. Sims-I have no other questions at
present.
the committee desire to ask any ques-
lions?
Would Have Some Value.
Mr. Murphy-If you could eliminate the
carbon monoxide from the water gas or
the carbureted water gas would that gas
then have any practical commercial value
in the business
Mr.. Forstall-Yes, it would have some
value.
Mr.. Murphy-Some?
Mr.. Forstall-Yes: eliminating il entirely,
what you would lose would be the heat
ing value of the carbon monoXide. But
that is rather an idle speculation, because
it is not possible to eliminate the carbon
monoXide, commercially.
Mr. Murphy understand that.
Mr. Forstal-There have been some
processes patented for doing. il, but they
have never been worked. and it is i'm
possible to work them and still make d
gas that could be distributed.
Mr.. Murphy-If 1t were eliminated
there would then be no advantage in corr-
tinuing the manufacture of carbureted
water gas?
Mr. ForstalI-No: you had just as well
make coal gas, because carbureted water
gas with the carbon monoXide taken
out of it would have the same disad-
vantages that coal gas has. as far as
smokinesS is concerned and other dis
agreeable effects.
Mr.. Murphy-Do you know or can you
state about what proportion of the heat
ing qualities of the water gas is due to
the carbon monoxide?
Mr.. Forstall-I figured that out, but I
have forgotten il. Perhaps. DR.. Love will
have some figures on that. What you
said to me before the hearing began to-
day made me think that you might come
at that. and | have been trying to think
of it, but l have been unable to re-
member.
Mr.. Murphy-Can you state it APP
proXimately?
Mr.. Taylor-He says DR.. Love may have
that.
Mr.. Forstall-I could not state anything
] would be satisfied to give without step
ping and figuring it out again.
Mr.. Murphy-On this heating proposi-
ton?
Reduce Heating Value.
Mr.. Forstall-Yes 1t is quite con-
siderable percentage, but whether it is
20 per cent or 80 per cent do not know
would not want to say. However it
would reduce the heating value of the
gas quite a good deal if it were taken
out; not the heating value per cubic
foot. but starting with thousand cubic
feet Of carbureted water gas and taking
the carbon monoxide out of il. the heat
ing value of what was left OF that
thousand feet would be less than the heat
ing value of the original thousand cubic
feet.
Mr.. Taylor-Can you get the carbon
monoxide out?
Mr.. Forstall-No sir; there is no way
of getting 1t out commercially. 1t can
be done in the laboratory. There are
ways of doing it.
Mr.. Taylcr-I understand.
Mr.. SimS-One question that L forgot
to ask. | would like to put in All gas
companies now furnishing water gas
are they or not indirectly interested in
opposing this bill? Would it not have
moral effect to pass it against them?
Mr. Forstall--I should say that the
pasSa ge of this bill would very seriously
affect the situation of every gas COM
pany furnishing carbureted water gas
Mr.. Sims-Throughout the United
States?
Mr.. Forstall-Throughout the United
States. yes. sir.
Mr.. Sims-And. therefore throughout
the United States the water gas COM
panies are naturally in opposition to
this bill?
Mr.. Forstall-I should think so, if they
know about it.
MIR. Sims-And they are not asleep.
Mr.. Forstall--WelI. / did not know
anything about il until last Saturday.
Mr.. Moore-In answer to Mr.. Sims a
moment ago you indicated that the may
ors of municipalities or the authorities
of municipalities were cogniZant of the
use of carbureted water gas in gas
works in those municipalities.
Matter of Publication.
Mr. Forstall-I do not know that they