Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1909-02-01

certain quantity is or Is not poisonous?
Mr. Forstall-I have not tried to pass on
that. l have acknowledged that carbon
monoxide is poisonous.
DIR. Haywood know. but the relative
quantities of water gas and coal gas: you
have said that one will produce death and
one will not. Have you ever carried out
any experiments to prove thatc
Mr.. Forstall-I beg pardon: / did not
say that one would produce death and one
would not
DR.. Haywood-In a certain length of
time.
Mr.. Forstall-Yes. I said that.
DR.. Haywood-Have you ever carried on
any experiments to prove that?
Mr.. Forstall-NO.
DR.. Haywood-Where do you draw your
Mr.. Forstall-From the literature on the
subject
DR.. Haywood-Teil me some of the lit
erature.
Mr. Forstall-This report of the depart
mental committee of the board of trade
has more in it than any other publication.
DR. Haywood-Is that of 1889?
Mr.. Forstall-1S99.
DR.. Haywood-You mean the house Of
commons seasonal papers?
Report of Committee.
Mr.. Forstall-I do not know what they
call it, it is given here as the report of
the departmental committee.
DR.. Haywood-Have you ever read that
through?
Mr.. Forstall-Yes.
Dr. Haywood-Do you know who the
committee is by whom it is signed?
Mr.. Forstall-Yes, / gave their names
yesterday.
Dr. Hayw6od-Were Sir William Ram
say and Haldane two Of the men who
signed it?
Mr.. Forstall-They were.
To frI% CfoYA no
names were read into his statement yes
terday.
Mr.. Sims-The doctor was not here and
did not know that.
Dr. Haywood-Do You remember that
that committee recommended to parlla-
ment that II per cent of carbon monoXide
should be a maximum in the gas?
Mr.. Forstail-I do not
DIR. Haywood-What did item number
say in regard to that?
Mr.. ForStall-1tem number >, II That IS
Mr. Taylor-I may state that that was
read into the record yesterday.
Mr.. Forstall-I read that into the record
yesterday. Item number > says:
THAT power should be conferred upon a
central department to make regulations,
enforceable by adequate penalties. limiting
the proportion of carbonic oxide In the
public gas supply at night to II per cent
or such greater amount as the depart
ment may consider desirable"
Dr. Haywood-That is all l wanted TO
know, if you read that report very care
fully. You quoted some figures there
about the deaths in Chicago being four
and some fraction when coal gas was
used and three and some fraction when
water gas was used, did you not?
Mr.. Forstall-Yes.
DR. Haywood--Have you not left out a
great many figures in that report which
show exactly the opposite-that the
water
Left Out No Figures.
Mr.. Forstall-No. 1 have not in my
statement l stated yesterday-quoted
this table Of DR.. Haldane. by which he
pretends to show that the deaths had
increased greatly with the use of car
bureted water gas. and l gave my rea-
sons why I thought that table was not
worth very much.
Dr. Haywood was not here. l am
very much obliged to you for telling me
that. The other thing ! wanted 10 ask
you about is this: Are you familiar with
the experiments that were carried on III
1884 in Massa chusetts?
Mr.. Forstall-By Drs. Sedgwick and
Nichols?
DR.. Haywood-Yes
Mr.. ForStall.-I am.
Dr. Haywood-Are You aware of the
fact that they put certain animals al
room of about 700 cubic feet. iet a
6-foot burner run in that room. AMI
with coal gas. at the end of eight hours
not single animal was dead; with wa
ter gas. at the end of about three and
a half hours the animals commenced To
die. and at the end of eight hours they
were practically all dead?
Mr. Forstall-I am aware of those eX-
periments. yes.
Dr., Haywood-How do you. then. ex-
plain your contention that you do not
think there would be any more deaths
from water gas than there would from
coal gas?
Mr.. Forstall-I say that investiSa
tions of the actual deaths of human be-
ings from exposure to gas poisoning
have shown. and the gentleman who
has made more of those Investigations
than any other one man in the world.
probably made d statement here yester-
day that personally he was convinced
from his Investigations that the condi-
tions of exposure were such that the
coal gas would have killed in pract;-
cally every case. and that is what
have said that the conditions of expo
sure are such that the gas with the
lower percentage of carbon monoNiIe
would have killed and that is all YOU
can do to anybody.
DR.. Haywood-Can YOU give us Z
reference to any literature that will
prove that point of yours that you have
just made?
MI tHeSe Investigations
to which Commissioner Barker referred
In his statement are published in the
annual reports of the board of gas and
electric light commissioners of Massa-
chusetts. / have tried. after I came
down here. to get those reports, but
the Congressional Library does not
have them
Mr.. Thomas-I have most of them.
Mr.. Forstall-They can be analyzed very
readily.
Dr. Haywood-Have you read the 1902
report of the board of health of Massa-
chuSettS"
Mr.. Forstall-I have not
DIR. Haywood-You did not know then
the thirtE-fourth annual report in regard
to the use of water gas and coal gaSo
No knowledge of Report.
Mr.. Forstall-I did not know; | know
nothing about that report
DIR. Haywood-Suppose / were to tell
you that the House wrote to the board of
health Of Massachusetts and asked them
to answer certain questions i'm regard to
coal and water gas, and l continued tell
ing you that. in answer to that, the whole
board of health of Massachusetts signed
this letter in answer to them and said
that in the thirteen wears before the in
PRODUCTION of water gas into Massachu-
sets there were something like eight
deaths from Illuminating gas poisonin, in
Massachusetts: that in the thirteen wears
after water gas was introduced that rose
to the tremendous number of something
like between four and five hundred
Would you believe such figures as that :?
Do you think that is good authority?