Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1909-01-31

under which the exposure takes plase
are such that the length Of the period %
exposure is sufficient TO kill with tho
least dangerous gas. That has been The
result OF all the Investigations, as NJ.
Barker stated yesterday. that the Massa-
chusetts gas commission has made. and
IL seems 10 me that Is borne out by those
statistics from Baltimore and Chicago.
No Rule to Go By.
Mr.. Sims-Is there any hard and fast
rule by which persons who are exposed
10 gas poisoning are all exposed for the
same period Of time?
Mr.. Forstall-No. sir.
Mr.. Sims-Then how do you come to the
conclusion that IL just naturally happens
that the exposure Is always suhic'ent to
produce death in either case?
Mr.. Forstsll-It is not. Any number
OF people who are exposed to gas poison
Ing of both kinds OF gas recover. But
where death occurs Investigation has
shown where the cases have been in
ed in a sufficient number Ct cases 10 give
an average. that exposure has continued
for sufficient length OF time to have
killed with the coal gas. In fact. quite
number Of people are killed by coal
gas under those same conditions. As L
see 1t, you cannot kin man any deader
than killing him, although ] think IL was
stated in some OF these hearings that
they did not wish to Kill some of these
animals. on which they were experiment
ing, entirely" so that they removed
them from the effect OF the gas.
Mr.. Sims--Suppose we have a liquid
containing 10 per cent or alcohol ana
another liquid containing so per cent OF
alcohol: would not that liquid having
80 per cent Of alcohol produce a greater
amount OF intoXication than the same
amount Of liquid containing only 10 per
cent?
Mr.. Fcrstall-Yes
Mr.. Slms-Now. taking a gas containing
10 per cent or not exceeding 10 per cent.
and another having 20 per cent and an
other 70 per cent, Is II your contention
that the same exposure and the same
Inhalation would have no greater effect
in producing poisoning and death IN the
case CT the gas containing 20 per cent
or 30 per cent than with the gas con-
tanning 10 per cent?
Mr.. Forstall--That is not my conien-
ton. The same exposure is more danger
Gus with carburetted water gas than IL
is with coal gas. But as I said. and as
everybody who has investigated this sub
Ject has concluded. practically the length
dangerous gas to produce death. Taking
your smile. q man can drink enough
of the liquid cont aiming 10 per cent OF
alcohol to get just as drunk as he could
possibly get by drinking the liquid contain
ing 90 per cent OF alcohol. He gets
enough of the gas containing 10 per cent
of carbon monoxide to kill him. and tina.
is as far as you can go with a gas con-
tanning 30 per cent
Relative Period Of Exposure.
Mr. Sims-With coal gas containing 5
per cent Of carbon monoxide and then
with water gas containing % per cent
Of carbon monoxide, what would be the
relative periods Of exposure necessary TO
produce death with those gases?
Mr.. Forstall-It would be pretty hard
to say what the relative periods would
be, but there is no question but the man
would be killed by the % per cent carbon
monoxide gas In shorter time than he
would by the ) per cent carbon monoxide
gas.
Mr.. Sims-Then how do you arrive at
the conclusion that as a rule all ex-
posures are practically the same length
OF time, so as to bring about practically
the same result?
Mr. Forstall-I do not think stated
that If did I did not intend to. What
l have tried to express is this: There are
any number of cases that are non-fatal.
do not know whether any record is kept
here I'm the District Of those cases. did
not run across any such record. but such
a record is kept by the Massachusetts
gas and electric commission, and there
gas where the people are made pncon-
scious and are taken out and finally re-
cover, and those cases occur both with
coal gas and with carburetted water gas:
but in the cases that are fatal investiga-
ton has shown that the exposure has
been of sufficient length to have killed
with the coal gas. AS Mr. Murphy said
yesterday-and he supplied me with
smile that I have been looking for for a
week-the difference in the effect OF the
two gases practically is the difference be-
tween being shot with a revolver and be-
ing shot with a rifle. both In the hands
of a good 5narksman, at the distance or
six feet.
Mr.. -Supposing that Washington
cfty-if you could make such suppoei-
tion-was without gas and that you knew
the size OF the city and its requirements,
and there was bill before us to authorize
either the manufacture Of coal gas eS-
clusively or the manufacture OF car
bureted water gas; looking alone to the
possibilities OF injury to health and life,
which would you recommend be adopted
if that was before you as an independent
and original proposition?
Mr.. Forstall-Entil'ely independent OF
any economic considerations?
Mr.. Sims-Yes. from the standpoint OF
exposure and its consequent danger; elm
ina ting all question of the cost of manu-
facture or the cost Of the existing plant?
No Material Difference.
Mr.. Forstall-If1 had not looked into the
subject as much as l have and did not
know as much as I do. think I would
probably recommend the coal gas. but,
having looked into it. l do not think there
is materially any difference.
Mr.. Sims-Speaking from your own
knowledge and what you know about IT,
if it was an original proposition you think
there is practically such little difference
in the evil results that you would not
recommend the one or the other SO far as
accidents to health and life are con-
cernedn
Mr.. Forstall-I do not think / would
make any recommendation against either
under those circumstances.
Mr. Sims-HavinS a water-sas plant in
operation here and considering the pos
sibiities entailed Of increased cost and
increased capitalization, l spprehend You
would certainly not advocate the passage
of the present bill?
Mr. Forstail-Oh. certainly. have
been instrumental In starting several car
bureted water-gas plants myself. you
know / should not have done IL If had
thought there was any increased danger
to the user
Mr.. Sims-There has been tendency in
crease the use Of water gas by the cities
generally?
Mr. Forstali-I think. without there be-
ing anything that can be characterized as
a tendency, that probably in the last ten
years the amount Of coal gas distributed
has increased because l have seen sta
tistics prepared twelve or fifteen years
ago which showed that of the total
amount of gas distributed IN the United
States 20 per cent was carbureted water
gas. while the geological survey returns