Arizona republican., 1909-03-25

more favorable minimum allowed ter
 minal shippers is based on water
 competition where for the reason giv-
 en in the matter of mixtures the shippers are allowed by sea traffic to receive goods in small or large lots
 as they choose. They choose. of course, the smallest quantity needed. hence the small minimum allowed
 them by the railroads. Mir. Chambers
 said that there was no relation be-
 tween the terminal points and the in
 terior in this respect. Such arrange
 ments as are made are entirely arbi-
 trary, but he said that Phoenix was
 at no disadvantage.
 In the matter of rates. Mir. Cham
 bers said that this territory had suf-
 fered from the operations of the 1 Hepburn act, which had prevented the
 roads from putting in force immedi-
 ately, favorable tariffs which changes elsewhere would have enabled them to ] do. That is the act had interfered with the flexibility of regulations to
 meet ever changing conditions.
 Speaking of these changes, he said
 that the rates at this point were
 more complex than those of any point
 on the Santa Fe system The direct
 rate to Phoenix now was lower than
 the combination.
 One feature of the Arizona traffic.
 said Mir. Chambers, was that the inn
 ports of this territory far exceeded
 the exports and as a result the roads
 had to haul out a great many empty
 cars. The situation was quite diff
 ferent on the coast. Thence. box cars
 and refrigerator cars never go out
 empty. The only empties are some
 fiat cars and coal cars. This is a
 situation that has something to do
 with rate making.
 ? Concerning the matter of the shin
 pers and manufacturers of the middle
 west, which was brought up the day
 before, NIT. Chambers said that when ! the Chicago rate west was lower than
 the New York, it is not constructed on water competition. But he said all that had been already threshed out by the commission. In regard to intermediate rates in the western classification, MT. Chambers said that | the latter are on articles that did not move by water at the time they were made. The intermediate rate when lower than the combination, prevails. Making the statement that all Cal ifOrnia points except the terminals are intermediate points, MT. Cham
 bers revived a subject that has been brought up every day since the be- ginning of the hearing-what is an intermediate pOint2 While MT Chambers was giving the railroad definition, MT. billiard intervened and said that the matter would be made much plainer if the common defini- tion was accepted. An intermediate point was plainly point between two basic points,
 MT. Chambers was asked if rates on west bound freight was higher to points east of Yuma and Barstow than to points west. He replied that they were not This was later referred to in his reply to a question that all intermediate tariffs apply to main line points on west bound freight, though no longer carried in the tariff though they may be lower or higher In reply to another question regard ing water competition he said that every article the railroads can carry can be carried by water and as to water rates he said they vary The steamship lines have no published tariffs.
 The testimony was diverted from the abstract subject of rate making by an inquiry by MT. Norton regard ing the conference of last May in which MT Chambers was asked if he and Mir Luce Of the Southern Pa cific had made any promise concern ing the rate on hides and pelts. He ,f standing with Mir. Jones that a g. rate would be put in. He believed that rate had been suggested by Mir. Jones, but later he informed them that that rate would not be satisfac- tory.
 Mir. Chambers said that his under | standing of the results Of the confer ! ence was that Phoenix and valley l products were to go out on the same | terms as California products, that is, | products of the soil;" California | products were to be brought to Phoe- nix at main line rates. Mir. Cham Ders said that there was no under standing that west hound rates were .o be reduced, but he said that he and Mir. Luce said they would go over he rates to see whether they had got out of relation They had so gone oyer them, but had reduced none ,f them. The rate on cement, he said, lad been previously reduced.
 Concerning the lower rates from the cast to Colorado and eastern points, .ir. Chambers said that the sugar ate was made necessary to meet the ugar market of Colorado and Kan as: so had a lower rate on potatoes ,een made necessary. For market easons. also had the rate on canned -oods been higher west of Colorado joints. This was an arrangement highly satisfactory to California all round.
 The Afternoon.
 Almost all of the afternoon was aken up with the testimony of John !. Stubbs, assistant general freight gent of the Southern Pacific at San francisco. Mir. Stubbs has charge ov- F the traffic of Arizona, New Mex co and California, south of Stockton. Ir. Stubbs took up the subject Of tides which gave him a great deal Of