The Salt Lake herald-Republican. [volume] (Salt Lake City, Utah) 1909-1918, 1909-09-28
CASE OF HARTMAN LINES
AT RATE HEARING CLOSED
Continued from PAGE 1.


in the same relative position. An in
stance of this was the statement of
Mr.. Jones that the rate on oranges,
slips from California to Salt Lake and
the same to New York, any reduction in
the rate to Utah would necessarily be
followed by a reduction to. all other
points and in this the railroad man was
puzzled for an explanation.
II. F. Bartine, chairman of the Ne
vada Railroad commission, crOss-ex-
amined the witnesses at the morning
session after it was agreed that the
testimony bearing on the Reno hearing
might be used in the records there.
Water competition" was the speciality
in most of the examinations and every
phase Of the favorite railroad defense
was aired in the questioning.
Profit of 25 Per Cent.
The question of what Mr.. Luce re-
garded as a "remunerative rate" was
one which brought several interesting
answers. One statement made by Mr..
Luce was that a Temunerative rate was
one which would give net profit. An
other was that a remunerative rate
was one that depended entirely on what
would move the business, and in this
| he did not believe that % per cent net
profit was too great for the railroad,
provided the traffic would move at such
rate. isn't % per cent on a capitali-
cation of $1OOOO0,O00 a little too great
profit to expect?' asked Mr.. Bartine.
Mr.. Luce said he thought he could find
some industries with that much capital
that were making Is per cent
Mr.. Luce, in reply to questions, said
that the water competition with the
Southern Pacific had increased in the
| last ten years, and this paved the way
for some pertinent questions regarding
the advance of about 10 per cent that
was made by the Southern Pacific on
tTanscOntinental business a few months
ago. It was developed that this advance
was made in the face of the increasing
water competition" and Immediately
/ the water carriers made a correspond
ing advance in their rates.
Officials Did Not Know.
Later, Mr.. Babcock was unable to
prove through the railroad officials that
there was an understanding between the
railroads and water carriers before this
advance in transcOntinental rates was
made, none of the men who took the
stand having any positive knowledge of
any such agreement, although they
| knew or understood that the advance in
rail rates was followed by the shipping
company Immediately.
Mr.. Bartine asked Mr.. Luce If it was
not fact that transcontinental freight
rates by rail were 25 per cent above the
rates by water. Mr.. Luce replied that
| the Hawaiian-American line fixed its
rates at 20 per cent of the carload rates
and so per cent of the less than car
| load rates. He said, however. that at
/ times the ship company, when 1t wanted
/ TO fill a vessel, would go out and get
| the business at rates which the rail-
! roads could not meet, excepting with a
| thirty days notice.
How Nevada Is Hit.
Mr. Luce admitted that all rates were
made in conferences by the railroads
| without consulting the water carriers,
and he also admitted that in the entire
| scheme Of rate making, despite the
water competition the railroads took
/ the initiative in every instance. Then
/ came a discussion as to the proportion
/ Of freight leaving the coast eastbOund
/ on the Southern Pacific which passed
| to or through Ogden. It was brought
/ out that or 1 per cent of the freight
/ which left California, was consigned to
/ Nevada points. When Mr.. Luce was
| asked if it was the practice Of the rail-
] roads to take the transcOntinental bust
! ness at what he termed improbable
] rates anu liltl MAKE up the REVENUE Oh
| other regions, he replied that the rail-
roads certainly did not get their extra
| revenue from the terminals. He ad-
/ mitted that the Southern Pacific for
/ many years carried freight destined to
| Nevada from the east clear through,
| over the Sierras and then back to Ne
| vada. This, he said, was stopped after
/ a court decision which allowed the rail-
| road to charge the rate from New York
/ to San Francisco and then back to Ne
/ vada without performing the service.
Would Not Admit 1t.
you say you receive a remunerative
/ rate for hauling freight from the east to
| Sacramento" said Mr. Bartine. Then, if
| you haul it back to Reno or Ogden you
receive a remunerative rate for that ser
/ vice. Then, if you get the same money
/ for simply hauling the freight from the
! east and dropping it off at Reno. do you
! not get more than remunerative rate2H
/ The dignity of the court was marred by
/ a ripple of laughter when Mr.. Luce an
/ swered NO, sir to this question.
| Commissioner Clark asked if it would
| be a reasonable request of the railroads
/ to file a statement showing what the loss
| in revenue would be if terminal rates
I were applied to all points west Of Denver.
Water Competition.
L. J. Spence, general freight agent for
| the Morgan steamship lines of the HaT-
>
| ter competition by the Gulf and Panama
routes and by the Straits of Magellan be
| tween Atlantic coast points and CalifOr-
mia. He gave the proportions of the bust
| ness delivered at California points from
I the Atlantic seabOard, which showed the
water route tonnage, exclusive of tramp
steamers, amounted to 226,140 tons, and
I the Southern Pacific railroad tonnage
on the same class was 205, 231 tons last
I year.
Mr.. Spence admitted that when the Har-
! riman lines advanced the transcontinental
/ rates approximately 10 per cent, they
{ did it in the face of competition with the
| steamship dimes, simply taking
+ chance" and this competition did not
/ deter the railroads from making the ad-
/ vance without consulting shippers or the
steamship lines.
/ Mr.. Spence said the Morgan lines had
/ a department organized for no other pur-
I pose other than competition with the all
rail lines, but he finally admitted that
I there could be no competition between the
! Southern Pacific Steamship company
and the Southern Pacific railroad
| Mr. Luce said the steamship lines pro-
I