Evening journal., 1908-04-24
SPENT THOUSANDS
THEN GAVE UP
CONTINUED from First PaEs)
Mr.. Mcintyre Called.

called IN TO assist in distributing the
items OF the 1904 payroll according to
the 1908 form. Mr. McIntire said If
he had the payroll he could do so. but
City Solicitor Townsend declined TO let
him have the payroll, saying that IL was
desired to find out whether any person
could arrive az the same results from
department records now on hand as
are contained In the 1904 payroll.
There was some discussion on this
point, Mr. McIntire demanding the pay
roll as necessary TO proceed. The up
shot of the matter was that Mr.. Nc
Intire was sworn as a witness, and
he and Special Auditor Gleason, under
instructions from Mr.. Townsend, went
over the payroll accotnts and COM
piled the figures under the 1908 pay
roll headings.
While compiling the payroll Mr.. Nc
Intire said he or Mr.. Coleman at any
time could distribute the items to any
body's satisfaction. Special Auditor
Gleason pointed out that II Mr.. Nc
lntire. or Mr. Coleman should leave
the department nobody else would be
able TO make anything out OF the ac-
counts under the system. Mr.. Glea
son said ten system was bad.
Mr.. McIntire distributed each item,
alloting each name as called under
its proper heading.
you have a remarkable memory,
Mr. McIntre." remarked Mr. Gleason.
That's what I rely on" replied Mr..
McIntire.
"Yes, I guess that's the whole thing,
II all relies on your memory" observ-
ed Mr.. Gleason.
Mr.. McIntre said he regarded the
system as sufficient, although that in
stalled by Mr. Gleason he thought IS
better
Mr.. Townsend recalled Mr. Leisen TO
the stand and asked him what a charge OF
$3.50 by Allen Hazen. expert engineer, IN
November. 1904 was for. Mr.. Leisen said
It was for services in connection with a
project suggested by him U.eisen) and
was engaged after Mr.. Leisen recommends
ed him.
"rhen you are not an expert enslneerr
'No"
Where did you get your degree as en-
gineerT'
II have no college degree"
Mr. Leisen explained that a bill OF sss2
Of Charles Brossman was for services as
rdaughtsman.
A bill OF slOis OF Samuel NJ Gray as ex-
pert engineer was contracted under the
same circumstances as Mr.. Hazens bill,
Mr.. Leisen said. Mr.. Leisen said all in
all the experts recommended the Rocxland
or weldin farm sites for reservoirs.
CITY A BIG LOSER.
'Of what practical value IS that to the
city to-dayY'
practically nothing at all"
What did the Rockford Park Water
Tower costT'
"Si05 900.
"of what use is It to-day other than an
ornamentr
"No particular use at the present
time"
How much did the laying OF pipes
across the Brandywine at West street
| costT'
Several thousand dollars"
'Of what us Is II to-dayY'
mot much since the new system Is in
operation"
Gould It have been arranged for lessY"
YES"
Mr. Townsend cited the following OK
penses. charged to RoclSland project:
Allen Hazen. engineer, $3.50; Charles
Brossman. Jr.. draugh;sman, S6S2. .1h;
Samuel N. GRAY, engineer, S1,04s.6S,
Allen Hazen. SiS5.ss; e. X. Turner,
sl1125: r. A. Hale. s7s6 81; junketing
trips. S5s1s0: arbitration, 81 ,655 so;
John II. Murphy, damages, $500: labor,
$2,0s4.0s; drawing materials, $3.50; print
ing. $3.50.
What has the city to show for ali
this to-day?" was asked.
Nothing" replied Mr.. Leisen.
why didn't you recommend that
these expenditures be prevented, or
prevent them.
Because we had every reason to be-
lieve the Rockland project would be
carried out"
Can you produce. or can any em-
ploye produce. a record OF the proof
Of meters?"
"No."
Mr.. Leisen said he didn't know the
cost OF maintenance per year for a
meter. such as reading It, clerical ex-
pense, etc"
Don't you think such a knowledge
is necessary in fixing rates for meters"
mo"
"Then II 1t Is not necessary, do you
take your own judgment"
My own judgment and the judgment
OF others"
Then how do you know the meters
are being operated at proft"
I'VE know they are being operated
at a proht."
What is the expense OF operating
meter2"
1--WE don't know"
"Then how do you know you are not
charging the consumer too much?"
"The question of too much Is
matter for the judgment OF aha hoard. Z"
How do you know you are not over
charging the people for water you con-
sume?"
THAT Is a question OF Judgment"
IF you don't know what you are
making out Of meters how do you
know what you are making out OF fiat
Iratcs?"
1--WE don't know"
'Tf you don't know at what profit
OF loss water is being sold, how DO you
know whether the meter rate has an
advantage over the fat rate?"
I'VE do know in a general way with
out going into those details"
Mr.. Iseisen was asked to estimate or
guess the cost Of the maintenance Of a
meter a year. but he could not do IT,
He said he thought he ought 10 know
It,"
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