The San Francisco call., 1908-07-04
Reas Fearful Tale Rings With Truth of Bitter Experience

Mr.. Abe Ruef overcame opposition and
elected his ticket, and that gave Abe
Ruef the absolute power. Therefore
Mr.. Herrin had to deal with Mr.. Ruef
or he was out, which he did, to my GER
tain knowledge.
Odd he go to Ruef or did Ruef
go to him?
Ale sent over to Mr.. Ruef and got
Mr. Ruef to come to him; and then it
turned out that Mr.. Ruef didn't want
any money for anything he did from
Mr.. Herrin, but he wanted a square
deal, and said to Mr. Herrin that he
would do anything within his power
without the payment of one dollar that
he could do and not betray the people
who were behind him. Mr.. ~Ruef said
that to Mr. Herrin.
Q.-When was that, do you remem-
ber?
A--That was when Ruef was elected
the first time-when, Ruefs people
were elected the first time, that was
the situation. / was friendly to Mr..
Ruef and believed him, and believed he
was honest. When he was elected the
nrst time he and l went over the en-
tire situation, and 1 said to him: "If
you are crooked all you have got to
do-al Mr.. Herrin has got to dds to
put detective on you and you are in
his hands, and then you have to do
his bidding or you go to state prison.
So you have to be straight; if you don't
you are ruined There is only one way
out OF 1t. Now, you are an attorney
and you will have a whole lot of pat
ronage and prestige that you can make
money out of legitimately without do
ing illegitimate things, and they can
never overthrow you If you are honest
in this CITY," And I believe that Mr..
Ruef was honest the first term, be-
cause Mr.. Herrin told me he was, and
never charged him a cent; and L believe
in his first term he was honest.
NOT MONEY BUT POWER
WAS RUEF'S DESIRE
Q.-What did he call square deal?"
What did he want? He wanted some
thing, didn't he?
A.-No. sir; he didn't want a cent
hat is, if he did I didn't know l.. rrlY
wanted the power.
Q.-Power?
Ale really wanted to be United
States senator. He wanted to be United
States senator, that is what he wanted.
Q.-And he wanted Herrin to assist
him?
A.-And he wanted Herrin to assist
him, and he wanted to be treated right
and put to the front and considered an
derstanding of it. And the second time
that he came out, why, these corpora
tions here put up thousands of dollars
to beat him-thousands of dollars to
beat him, because they couldn't per-
haps control him. And 1 believe he
was honest the first time. But after
they put up all this money and he got
in, why, as he said to me, why, he says
They won't do right. After treating
them the way have look what they
have tried to do to me-" And they did
try to beat him, and 1 then thought
that he tried to make them put UP. And
there are two sides to the story. I
don't think he considered the people
with them. He didn't consider that his
was cinching the corporations. He was
trying to justify himself; and 1 don't
think there was ever any friendship
between Mr. Ruef and the people he
was allied with afterward.
Q.-That is the way that Mr.. Herrin
comes to control the situation, is it?
Ayes. And now he has got Mr.
Ruef and he used him. Later 1 suppose
that Mr.. Ruef was crooked, in fact
Q.-That means that Mr. Herrin gets
hold of the political bosses in every
section of the state in such a manner?
GETS POLITICAL BOSSES
OR FORCES THEM DOWN
Ayes, he gets the political bosses;
and when he can't he puts in OppOsi-
tfOn to them to force them down. Any
man In politics makes enemies, be-
cause there are people who want jobs
and positions and favOrs that can't be
granted, and a political leader is re-
spOnsible owing to the centralized
pOwer-it puts the responsibility all on
one source, in lone quarter, and any
political power can be thrown ont he-
cause the influences are generally
pretty evenly divided-and MIR. Herrin
plays both ends of them. And. of
course, now, everybody, the under fell
lows, are corrupt; they want money,
and of course it takes money, and Mr..
Herrin supplies 1t.
"a majority of every legislature
is corrupt?
A.-No, won't say that.