Evening journal., 1908-04-30
INCREASE NOT
ABNORMAL
CONTINUED from First PaGo.l

Solicitor Townsend asked Mr.. For1
If he would have prepared a fuller
classification of the items submitted
by Engineer Leisen yesterday, which
Mr.. Townsend said we're not satisfac-
tory. Mr.. Ford said it was the atti-
tude Of the Board at all times that
any information desired would be fur
nished. President Shaw agreed with
Mr. Ford in this. Mr.. Ford was ex-
cused from giving further testimony,
but Mr.. Townsend said he would be
recalled later.
Mr.. Leisen Again.
Chief Engineer Leisen was again
called sa a witness. Mr.. Townsend
asked him why he did not include the
years 1905, 1906 and 1907 in his stato-
ment Of the moneys turned over by
the Water Department to Council. Mr..
Leisen said no surplus was turned over
in those years to Council Mr.. Leisen
said he didn't know whether all the
money turned over to Council was cash
or credit, but he thought some Of the
money had been used in the cancella-
ton Of bonds.
'Dr you know that the reports show
an arbitrary charge for water supplied
TO the city?"
"The books show that the city was
charged for water but whether It was
arbitrary or not I don't know"
Mr.. Leisen said he knew that tn d,
figures contained in his statement yes
terday were true to the best of his
knowledge and belief. The figures
were compiled by him and some EN-
ployes of the department Mr. Leisen
was unable to say what amount was
turned over to Council in 1885. He
said Mr.. Grohe would know.
Aren't the books kept in a manner
that anybody could get this informa-
tion," asked Mr.. Townsend.
NO" said Mr.. Leisen.
'"rhen If Mr.. Grohe should die, what
would happen?"
Couldn't Find Record.
Assistant Registrar Charles McIntire
produced the books and found there
was no record Of any money turned
over to Council prior to 1886.
In 1895 Mr.. Leisen. who was recalled
said part of the surplus of the de-
partment was used in the construction
Of new wharf. In that year he said
the departments expenditures exceed
ed the revenues.
Did you recommend those expendl-
tures?
Il went ahead with the work under
orders Of the board"
Mr.. Townsend asked him If he didn'i
know that the Water Department is
required by law to turn owed to Coun.
Gil each year money sufficient to pay
interest on bonds. Mr.. Leisen said he
did not know. and Mr. Townsend told
him to read section IA Of the act Great.
ing the department which require:
the department to fix a rate sufficient
to meet the expenses and to meet in.
terest on water bonds and sinking fund
expenses. and to turn over to Councf
a surplus sufficient to meet this inter.
est.
Did you department turn over sufi.
cient money in 1905. 1905 and 1907 tC
meet this interest?"
Il don't think it did,
He was asked how the receipts from
the bill of the Landlith Improvenien
Company for 1907 whwich was entere,
as paid in 1907 but was not paid unit
, January. 1908. could have been turne,
over to Council in 1907. He said tha
like in other business money is some
times spent that is not in hand. Mr.
Townsend remarked that in one yea
the board spent $4,000 it did not hav,
in hand.
Mr. Townsend asked Mr.. Leisen VIII,
he consolidated the items Of construc
tion and operation in the 1904 Ngxzel
of his statement and asked If he die
not consider that a juggling Of figures
Mr.. Leisen said he did not. and it wal
Inc - NaaNa
merely for purposes of comparison
Mr.. Deisen said he would try to fur
'nish a separation OF the items of dis
tribution and extension by Monday.
Townsend Wanted to Know
What we are trying to find out 4
how a $1,000 increase In distribution
; was caused in 1904" said Mr.. Town
send. He also asked Mr.. Leisen {,
) furnish the number of feet Of pipe lalt
through rock in 1904.
In response TO Mr.. Townsend, Mr.
Leisen said he thought the distributing
of charges for labor should be mad
by the accounting department.
'rhen of what use is that set OF mel
in the operating department, who ar
supposed to know where the charge
are to be distributed?"
"They enter where II is to be charged
on the time sheets, but the accounting
department distributes it."
IT the department expenditures n
1906 exceed the receipts by $4,000
where should the limit stop?"
Il don't know. for II is 1sCt IN IN.
jurisdiction" Mr.. Leisen answered.
Asked About Trips
why are trips to Indianapolis. Mon
? treal and other places charged to pip
laying and renewals to mains?"
"They shouldn't be so charged"
Mr.. Leisen said they were so charg
ed and were approved by Mr.. Leisen
The engineer said he approved the billi
but not the distribution of them. HI
was directed to bring in the bills fol
trips taken in 1905, 1906 and 1907
City Solicitor Townsend took a bill
Il