New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1908-11-21
ROCKEFELLER NOT
so SURE OF FACTS
FREQUENTLY RESORTS TO
II CANNOT SAY"
Prosecutor Goes Beyond Limit of
Direct Testimony-Disagree on
Immunity Question.

and one-half hours yesterday before Franklin
Ferris the referee. answering rapid FIRE of
questions asked by Frank 3. Kellogg. repre-
senting the Departments OF Justice. in the effort
to dissolve the Standard OH Company On
charges of violating the Sherman antitrust
Law backed by z. Dana Durand. Deputy Com
missioner OF Corporations IN his crOss-exani-
nation Of the witness Mr. Kellogg darted from
one question TO another.
From the rebate agreement with the Penn
syIvania Railroad he went to the purchase OF
rehnerfes; thence TO the acquisition OF terminals
on the seaboard then 70 the assertion Of ths
Standards president that his business was a
hazardous one. as an explanation OF immense
earnings
The urbanity Of Mr. Rockefeller never de-
serted him for minute. With gentle voice and
manner he denied knowledge Of reoaring -
other railroads: acceptance Of a drawback ot
% cents a barrel on shipments Of other re
fners; exclusive terminal acquisitions 70 smut
out rivals or cripple them. and Of a dominating
influence in the South Improvement Company
II was early IN the session that Mr. kellogg
departed from the careful path laid out N tne
direct examination by John G. Mnburn and
Moritz RosenthaI the Standards counsel. and
there was clash at once
Mr. Kellogg had induced the witness 70 admit
that while his company had capital OF SfV.-
OOoOOO the value os the property appraised and
he went further. wishing 20 ascertain whether
trust certificates thereafter issued for S13.31e.-
600 were for stock dividends OF for addittona4
property. Mr.. Rockefeller said ne dld not
understand the question. and as Mr. kellogg
started TO explain Mr. MiIburn quickly checked
him with:
OBJECTIONS TO QUESTIONS
II object to that question the ground that
the subject to which it relates is outside OF tns
direct examination and not covered by il IN any
way
Mr. Rockefeller said he had no objection 70
replying il the question was proper
Il believe the question to be a proper cross
examination" Mr. Kellogg declared not only
as Iaving foundation TO show that the risks OF
the business have not been great showing the
amount Of the investment and the income there
from. but also as a foundation for showing
whether these properties have all been ralrly ae-
quired or under duress and in restraint OF trade
II Nj Rockefeller has any personal objection 70
answering the question shall desire MIN ID
state il II not wish him 20 answer the ques-
tfon."
Mr. Rockefeller was instructed by Mr. Mil
hYrn TO answer. Not unless the counsel insists
,pon it and then I Will answer it. The wit
ness with a quizzicaI look repeated the answer
and then the government counsel asked MI
Rockefeller please TO answer, and he did Sc n
three words: L suppose SO
This objection was repeated again and again
In the course OF the day. with the addirion oy
Mr. MiIburn that whenever Mr. Kellogg went
outside Of the direct examination Mr RocAs-
feuer would have 20 be looked upon as a gov
ernn1ent witness
Counsel for the Standard OIL Company at the
noon recess said that to compel their witness ID
answer general questions was 20 make him i'm
r,,,ne from prosecution should the governnenr
decide to attack the individual officers OF the
company The government counsel scofred al
this He said that II Mr.. Rockefeller or tns
other officers could be made immune this nad
been done by the serving OF the su0ponas oy 4
government Official But he denied that his course
z-onId have that result II that question should
come up in the courts. he said he was ready
for it
IMMENSE EARNING POWER
= ratt,,g the admission that the property
valuation was S55. HOSES - when the capital
yxas S7OOOOOOO. Mr. Kellogg presented for
Identification evidences OF the immense earning
power OF the Standard From 1913 10 Janu-
arv 1 1907. the earnings. according to his fig
ures were S551 922 9O4 80. the amount OF the
dividends paid. and in 1907 SS0O0oooO. OF which
about half was paid out in dividends When AZ
error Of 81 OOOOOO was made at one time in TIA
statement OF figures. Mr.. Rockefeller said with
mock seriousness: another million for the poor
standard - and there was a general laugh
The Standard OIL president did not answer q
question apparently. unless he was sure OF Ms
knowledge. Mr. kellogg attributed this 70
serious loss Of memory. Throughout the morn
ing and afternoon the answers. I could not
state That / could say 1t may be so. I
cannot state Il cannot recall ard on. were
frequent When Mr.. Rockefeller being
asked about figures in the Pennsylvania rebate
agreement he would seemingly answer Questions
in the Affirmative. saying. so II says IN this
book or The figures are 50 given here" Re
frequently had the government brief a guide.
and never agreed 10 any reference 70 il without
the most careful scrutiny
REPROACHED BY Mr. KELLOGG
When reproached by Mr Kellogg with faiIura
TO recouect. when he had answered freely the
day before when examined by his counsel.
the Standards president said cOuTteousiy, "This
is another phase of a matter that occurred. you
say. nearly forty years ago The other facts
were brought to my attention only recently
That is why / remembered
Mr. kellogg dwelt at length on the statement
Of the witness that the OIL business was extra
hazardous He tried TO break down his insist
ence that this a fact. but without success.
He said at time. when Mr. Rockefeller had
remarked that they didn't know what morning
they might awake and hnd all the oil gone:
But you have walked up a great many years
and found il increasing. haven't youg-
The witness leaned far forward and answered
with most solemn intonation-
And we are very grateful for that assure
you"
Mr. Kellogg wished by this line q questions
to discredft the assertion OF the Standard thar
many Of its competitors gladly sold OUT 10 GET