The Detroit times. [volume] (Detroit, Mich.) 1903-1920, 1908-01-08
INC RAM BAT TIES
WITH CAMPBELL
ON INITIATIVE
DOES NOT LOOK AS IF PEOPLE
WERE ANY NEARER VESTED
RIGHTS AT CLOSE OF WINDY
SKiRMlsH.
(From a Special Correspondent,

(From a Special Correspondent
LANSING. Mich. Jan. 'S.-The bat
tie ragged all day In the con-con over
the question OF giving the people
| their vested rights OF the initiative
by amendment of the constitution.
After Ingram had finished his speech,
which controverted every argument
advanced by Fl. NJ. Campbell against
the privileges OF initiative. many 9TH
ers followed for and against, but the
debate followed largely the lines laid
down by these champions OF each
side.
Representative hall was filled with
spectators showing deep interest In
the great issues involved. Some new
points were brought out. sand as dis
cussion advanced the speakers gain
ed additional fire, creating passionate
language and intense excitement.
Wilson Starts In Wildly.
When Wilson took up the opposi-
ton fight he started In mildly. but
soon drifted TO the charge that this
reform was not an actually, but only
ia dream, and 10 place II In the con-
stitution was not only unwise, but ex-
tremely dangerous; that 1t would
open the door TO pure democracy,
which, he said. represents anarchy.
Then, as showing the extremes to
which the opponents go, his language
is here quoted:
1T is a failure, as proved by ex-
perience OF the past ages; Its advo-
Gates are the illegitimate children OF
the republic, the people tickle in opin.
ions and willing to take a chance TO
try any fad"
! In trying to smooth over the fact
that President Roosevelt signed the
Oklahoma constitution, WILSON said:
Eyes, he did, but held his nose to
avoid the stencil while doing the
deed"
| Calls instrument Code.
| Wilson declared that the instru-
ment was simply code and vicious
monstrosity. He said he considered
the initiative applied to statute laws
far less dangerous than to amend the
constitution, and that the 20 per cent
on petitions was no check on popular
| impulses, for once 1t had become en-
bodied in the basic laws, the people
would soon change 1t down to even
per cent and chaos would follow.
Wilson spoke Of the argument that
this new constitution would not be
adopted by the people IL the initiative
was not Incorporated as a threat TO
eeefee the delegates and denied It's
truth.
Horton, master OF the State Grange,
maintained that this was govern
ment of, for and by the people to pre-
serve their vested rights without TAX
ing away any legislative powers and
! that this action Is demanded because
the legislature time and again mas
turned down the people after securing
election to stand for specific reforms.
| HAD the last legislature done 1t5
duty" he said, this whole question
would now be already settled, but leg
islators violate their prediction
pledges. hence this reform must be in
! the fundamental law that the people
may hold their representatives up TO
J the line of duty, and as the const'tI'
ton is made by the people. why should
they not be permitted to amend their
own instruments"
4 He put II. NJ. Campbell In the hole
on his questioning the constitutional
| ity OF the initiative. by the asser-
ton that it was simply a
begging of the question, for he nor
any one else knew its constitutional
standing: then he put the matter
souarely to the delegates. saying The
only question for us to determine Is
is this right IL so, then be manly
enough to vote therefor: the initia
tive Is no phantom, but a vital prin'
ciple wanted by the people
Saws the Cities Would Rule.
Mead continued the opposition fight
contending that this would give the
cities great preponderance over the
rural districts, as voters will increase
In the former while decreasing In the
latter. and believed that II labor Or
Plantations understood the question,
they would oppose.
Deuel. Takes Up cudgefs.
Deuel. took up the good fight for the
peoples rights and fayed Wixon for
his admission that President Roose-
welt had signed what Wixon had chos-
on to call "a ridiculous monstrosity'-
the Oklahoma constitution. Then he
read letter from Secretary Bona
parte to the authorities OF Oklahoma.
in which the president expressed fav-
or for the initiative, and as to doing
away with the legislature we can do
Il now. hence that argument Is sense
less. then In hot words he said.
You. gentlemen, stand up here and
say the people don't know enough to
govern themselves; who are yeu that
you are SO high and mighty above the
common folk" sses
He closed with the remark that his
tory fails TO show one instance where
reforms came from legislatures. they
always spring from the common peo-
| pie. Sutherland charged the opposi-
ton with entire lack or faith I'm the
people IN holding their acts as prompt
ed only 10y impulse with lack Of rea-
son and then produced authorities and
decisions upholding the initiative and
enough to overbaiance all produced
against 1t.
AT the evening session talk con-
tinued. but interest relaxed. Post
met II. Nj. Campbell's point, that
republican meant a representative
form Of government by showing that
its real meaning was a government
by the people, anG the Initiative Is one
. a