Albuquerque morning journal., 1907-02-28

o
was applied with direct reference 20
himself. Mr.. Milburn. his counsel OBJ
jected. and Mr. Hartman refused 60
answer.
Did you or your associates buy
any stock then In anticipation OF this
dividend?" persisted Mr.. kellogg.
Il have always bought Union Pa
cific more or less" replied Mr.. Harri-
man. Then suddenly he wheeled
around and said:
81 bought Union Pacific stock in
1898 for S25 a share in anticipation
of that dividend. I bought It at the
time of the panic when one of my as
sociates declared | had more nerve
than any speculator he ever knew.
not deeming IL speculation l bought
1t in anticipation of that very divi-
dend. | bought 1t on the decline all
around after the san Francisco fire
/ in anticipation of that very dividend" p"
Commissioner Clement then asked
Mr.. Hartman why he objected to tell
ing Whether he had or had not bought
the stock
ION a matter of principle simply"
replied Mr.. Hartman.
What is the principle involved in
, the reason - Commissioner Clement
perserered
Lawyer Milburn again put In his
! objection. and Mr.. Hartman re-
marked aside: II have not any reason.
am in the hands of my counsel"
Attorney kellogg devoted much
time during the day to an effort to es-
tablish the proposition that rates on
the Union and the Southern Pacific
had remained fixed. If they had not
Increased over a period of several
years. during which time rates gener-
ally in the country had been reduced;
that competition had been destroyed
in the territory covered by the Union
Pacific: that the purchase of stock in
the Santa Fe was a move toward the
naturalization of competition by that
line and that the vast sums devoted
to betterments and dividends by the
Union Pacific had been taken from
unfair rates. The witness was not
willing to make any concessions or
any material admissions to those con-
tentions. and most Of the testimony
was discussed between lawyer and
witness as to the facts and conditions
involved.
Mr.. Hartman declared Union Pa
cific rates had been reduced II per
cent since he became president, and
fell back on the assertion that the eX-
penditures for improvements had de-
veloped the country and placed the
system in condition to handle the
great traffic that has come in later
years. and that he and his stockhold-
ers were entitled to the benefits their
enterprise had won,
There was an interesting discussion
of the per ton per mile compilation
of rates. Mr.. Hartman said the cal
culation was faulty because from the
standpoint of a low rate it was ad-
versely affected by high class freight
and favorably by low class freight.
Mr.. Hartman had remarked that
he did not think it was necessarily
wrong for Il road to earn so per cent
on its capitalization.
Where would YOU fix the limit?"
asked the, commissioner.
why. 100 per cent if you like"
replied Hartman quickly. and then
outlined his views. He said that as
long as a road was properly conducted
and gave proper facilities and charged
no higher rates than was charged by
any other road. It was entitled to its
earnings no matter what they We're.
There was no reason why the stock
holders should not received the hene-
fits resulting from good management.
What are you going to do with
it?" he asked. Are you going to do
nate it to the government or WHAT"
"There are several ways by which
you could returnfit to the shippers. :"
remarked Mr. elements, to the
amusement o. the room
Mr.. Harripan then made a plea for
some form Of legislation which would
permit railways to arrange for traffic
handling under supervision of some
such federal body as the interstate
commerce commission, with proper
regulation and limitations which
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