New-York tribune., 1907-06-03
NO TRUTH In CHURCH" :"
DIR. IRVINE ON "ETILS."
Says Pastors Cannot Be Frank
Under Present Conditions.

In a discussion of Problems of To-day and Their
Solution" yesterday the mems meeting of the
West Side Young Mems Christian Association, in
West 57th street DR.. Alexander F. Irvine. former
pastor and author of My Life in Peonage.' said
1t was impossible for pastors. under present con-
ditions, 10 tell the truth, the whole TRUTH He
debating with William p. Guthrie, professor
of history and political economy at the College OF
the City Of New York
In opening the discussion, Professor Guthrie said
that the country should not go too far in establish
ing rules and regulations for the remedy of the
evils of the day, maintaining that one great cause
Of the progress of the country had been lack OF
too much in rules and regulations to bind it.
First of all it is essential" he said, that we
limit to the really possible. The government can
not give a man s. a day for work that is worth
but 81 50 1t should not make firm do
Whether the work is worth that is of course
something that must be looked into so, too, the
government should not compel railroad to draw
me a mile for two cents when two ard a half cents
is what is really needed for the work. The careful
statesman looks into these things.
Again the government cannot compel man to
be moral 1t can. however, surround him with
that environment in conditions which tend to pro-
duce morality.
1--WE must work. too. within the limitations of
our present social syste n. We don't be
carried too much. We want to do walking
ourselves. We don't want the government TO in
terfere so that cannot have Edisons and
our Westinghouse Yes, and am / not right in
saying also Cancgics and our RockefeIlors? 4?
We must leave large sphere for individual en-
deavor And We must also leave it, will say, so
that some can make more than others-and some
less"
Mt Irvine dwelt specifically on the re
lisous aspect of the question He said that under
the system of the present day it absolutely
impossible for democracy-as represented among
the Protestant section of the poor-to share i'm the
work of the Church.
he uoOV-pGrpnia1lZ- lp tar
/ section Of the poor-havc "a function in tn"
Church2' he asked. because nowadays go to
church in the Protestant churches is a question of
clothes And the gathering of people i'm the Protes-
tant churches is to-day largely and but little
else a parade Of clothes.
Before private gathering he1rd Bishop Pot
gown which was worn ny woman That eXpen-
ing number of young animals from their mother.
TINS gown? Because Il was unique. for the reason
/ that nobody else then had IT,
| n woriimsman would not permit NV wife to do
I applause from nearly every man in the han.
ministers
= speak from experience he said. In Puritan
ical New England was pastor and went among
the poor and brought in ~ new members in year,
| gational church I'm that year i'm the country. BUT
/ ! was called down. =, There was big hubbub among
hers Of my congregation impaired the information
that had. perhaps. done q lot of work and good
pockets. But Td rather be "a man than minister
TO act as catspaw for any such assemblaso, and
/ / got out
Il believe that for man 10 ho pastor and
speak the truth-tho whole truths Impossible 90
Professor Guthrie. I'm continuing the discussion,
said that the stories "hared I'm big black type in
the United States in New York ON the East Side.
and he thanked God for IT, lie believed II night
that the man who saved should he allowed to
/ spend.
Whose money and whose earnings" asked Mr.
| Irvine. did Harry *. Thaw spend in Paris And
Mr.. Carnegie-or It may have been Mrs. Carnegie,
/ ii was a family affair anyhoW-said at the recent
/ ceremony the Carnegie Institute in PlttsburG,
Why. 1t reminds one of Aladdin hut here You
/ don't even have touch the lamp, Il seems But
all the great funds i'm the undertaking had poured
from the lahorS of mon who were iU NO way let
/ near the lamp its products Tho evils Will not
! he corrected nnt man gets what he earns. There
/ is no half way solution.
/ The discussion will be continued on Sunday