The Cairo bulletin. (Cairo, Ill.) 1???-1928, 1907-02-28
MORTCAGEO
BEFORE BUILDING.
FISH MAY REPLY
ROADS CONTROLLER TELLS OF
FINANCING METHODS OF
HARTMAN GROUP.
MACNATE STILL SILENT
On Matters Of Personal Transactions
Member Of Banking Firm
Defends Alton Deal---Fish
Expected to Answer.

1 New York, Feb. 27-Counse. for the
government renewed their attack up.
ION the financial me hods of the Har
Eriman group In the Alton railroad be-
| fore the interstate commerce commits
ion this afternoon when they called
Charles W. HiIllard, controller of tie
road. as a witness.
Under examination by Frank v
Kellogg, HiI.tard testified that he he
came controller October last. wher
under the JOINT arrangement for thu
management of the property, the Rocf
Island took It's turn.
| Hilliard said his first task was to
find money TO carry on improvements
under way. There was money In the
treasury for cGrrenr expenses but NOT
enough to carry on improvements,
which included a cut on Of 34h niles
of road between Murrayville and
| Springfield. There was not monev
enough to complete the building of
this line, said the witness.
Mortgsged Before Butt.
Il looked into the ques, ION Of rais
ing money by mortgaging ~ con
tinued, and | discovered 1t Lad a.
ready been morgaged
DO | understand that this road was
mortgaged before it was built?" asked
Commissioner Lane.
Yes, was told II was covered by
the mortgage of 1900, and there was
nothing that could be done cxcep.
to put a second mortgage on 1t, which
would have been poor security" said
HiIliard
kellogg read the mortgage to show
that the line bad been covered by II.
and resuming, the witness said:
Millions Never Paid Over.
'All the bonds were gone I
found from the books that The $4,000
900 had never been paid for the
bonds; that the $40 100000 had never
been paid TO Stanton for the stock,
that the $4,000 900 had never been
pad to Stanton for the road, but thu:
22,000 900 in bonds had been turned
over to the syndicate who delivered
the stock and the road through The
Intermediary, Mr.. Stanton.
The commission wanted ~ know
what the books showed had actually
been expended in connection with The
Etndliug CT rhe property. bit While
She witness was searching for reco'ds
tho session adjoGined until tomorrow.
Hilliard win be recalled tomorrow.
Edward II. Hartman concluded his
testimony at the morning session. His
examination brought fortn nothing OF
special importance He vas succeed
eo on the stand by Ot'o II. Kuhn
one of the leading members of the
firm of Kuhn. Loeb end Company
which has financed many important
deals of the Hartman party. and
former director fthe Union Pacific
There vas special inquiry as to com
missions paid Kuhn. Loeb and Com
pany and interrelations OF the firm.
the witness and Jacob Schiff with the
Union Pacific.
The witne said the firm had re-
ceived commission equal 10 > per
cent which was divided with other uu-
derwiilers on the issue OF Union Pa
cifc controyertible bends at re
duciion of per cent.
Banker Defends Big Deals.
The witness spiritedly def nded the
acts OF his firm and cited instances
where it has sold stocks to the Union
Pacific at a figure below the curren-
market Before leaving the stand
Kuhn made an txtended defense 81
The Alton transaction based on meth
pds and conditions Of the time.
Before he lef- the stand Hartman
again Invoked the question Of privsto
business a. agains, the interstate
commerce commits lou aud refused to
answer iuterrogations a. TO his iu-
Ilvidual stock transaction aud Kuhn
refused 20 disulge anything spcciic
as 70 business transactions uudcr
aiken by his firm IN behalf ~ client
n or outside Of the Union Pacific di
-cctorate
He and his counsel urged the dmc
'biection. made by the attorney IN be-
lalf Of Hartman and added the spec
al plea of confidential privileges X
sting between a banker and bis
.lients
Commission Overrules Objections
The comm ssion ruled asainsi at
objections and the record was in each
Instance prop riy completed Tor ref
renee 10 the courts.
William r. Moore and PANIED g.
seid. directors Of the Rcck Island
e. tilted as 70 contracts With Hsrri-
1an and his associates for Joint con