New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1907-01-21
COLLEGE HEAD DEBATES
OPPOSED By HILLQUIT.
Dr. ScburmaR ArOUSes East ISiders
at NezU Rochelle Meeting.

President Jacob Could Schurman OF Cornell Uni
'~ersity had as his opponent IN a debate "Indi-
v5duaiism Versus Socialism" at the Peoples Forum
A New Rochelle yesterday afternoon. Morris Hill
Quit. the East Side socialist. who for Congress
and was beaten by Henry NJ Cioldfogle by about
s5oO votes. Interest IN the debate a fever
heat ana MI Hiilquit's many friends from the
East Side who accompanied him New Rochelle
showed their appreciation OF nis efforts by fire.
auent and vigorous applause. At times they inter-
Tuptec the debate. and or one occasion, when
President Schurman asked HiIlouit, DO you be-
lieve, that no man can honestly make million
collars there were cries OF No. Mo-" and
misses
No man make SO,Occ' one man shouted
President Schurman's query regarding what Mr..
Hiliqnit proposed 10 do with the captains Of in
dustry. whom he described as monsters. was
answered by half dozen socialists in chorus:
We viii make them work.
Good for your retorted Dr. Schurman. Il like
70 see every man work. but if you adopt socialism
you give these men larger field. If they have
become your bosses now, they viii be worse than
they to-day
The names OF John u. Rockefeller and other
capitalists were greeted with contempt, expressed
:n loud Kisses. from the socialists. Mr.. Hillquit
smiled The hall was crowded. and the audience
closely followed the arguments os the speakers.
Condo b. Pallon. Of The Roman Catholic Ency-
closada," presided. President Schurman spoke
"Individualism.' He described socialism a
dream and illusion Socialism is the ownership
OF all machinery Of public production. he said,
land Is only an idea in mans head" He &C
knowleeged that the government was enlargnG its
functions. but he saw in these changes only an
adoption Of ideas to meet circumstances. which
the OutgroW-th OF the present system
Up TO the last century the main functions OF
government were the protection Of life and prop
srty" said DR.. schurnan "and after that admin
sstrstjon OF Justice. But our nation has now be-
come complex that the government has been
compelled 70 extend fits functions. II anything.
think we are a little too much inclined to extend
these functions. The government now passes laws
protecting the health Of the working people. In
Germany and other countries legislation has pro-
<,dea for a compulsory education and the setting
up OF state banks ana insurance companies No
generation can lay down rules which viii be bind
sng upon succeeding generations. The conditions
ana the evils OF generation must be met by that
generation. SO far the governmental function
So concerned am one OF those that believe that
the less We are governed the better. But every
emergency must be met and settled according 10
she exigencss Of the case. and, above all we must
rec that justice Is done"
GOVERNMENT OWNERSHIP OF RAILROADS
Reverting 20 the subject OF socialism and public
ownership OF utilities President Schurman said
what public ownership was sttn an experiment, and
THAT he was not aware that the experiment in this
country had appreciably advanced the millennium
9Ie said he certainly opposed TO government
ownership OF such utilities the railroads AT this
wanted to see the results in the smaller field Of
snunicpaI ownership. The government, he said,
could not afford invest billions Of dollars in buy
sng all the railroads Of the country, and then sink
other billions in mismanagement and political cor
Eruption. The speaker said his conception Of social
ssm was voluntary combination of labor and
capital -,.,,--.. :. -,,-,oa
which viii appeal TO all English speaking people;
j. appeals to us because rs p@ nr upon and h ind
vidual intelligence Another idea OF soca.1sm con
the idea being 10 confiscate thess fortunes. few
years ago in this country one could count All ths
familiar with milliOnaires, and even win billion
very likely to forget the general prosperity Some
people are too quick TO cry that the few nave been
The truth is that we are an richer and better of
heedqse mere mas peen SSG g SeI "a m
long they invest their money In enterprises
The public only When they squandeT wealth The
danger that see is not in swollen fortunes put in
Il clear that we would ali be better of If our fort
lnes were larger The danger is not il fortunes,
but in the way in which they are made Do you
doFis Oe''S'' 'a' 40 man '4'' -A' "'0'
CAN A MAN MAKE 100000?
Here Is a country he continued. '-of seventy
,nillions OF people Astounding with resources be-
lisve that the who knows what the people
want furnish it 10 them. One who knows how
take advantage of the conditions that exist and
q million dollars, and make il honestly. The
captain OF industry is the man who establishes an
organization; the man who has the ability To get
his goods TO the market. He is entitled 10 a larger
sum % profit than the man who has not these re-
sources
Dr. schurman contendec that capital was no.
alone the creation OF labor. hut vital force which
possessed the power OF creating wealth, Wealth
he said, was not dirt lying around loosely and the
rich have not rushed IN and picked II up merely
because they got there first Il am opposed to
This form OF socialism because II puts govern
1nent infinitely more than government can bear
he said, "One thing we have got TO look at in this
state and that Is that this state is President Roose
Welt, Governor Hughes. Thomas G. Plat. the lead
OF the two political parties, and Tammany Hall
speak OF these men because they are the state
They practically run the state"
The speaker said he wanted 20 know 81 Mr.
hiliquit or any other socialist believed thar a
small coteTie OF men were capable OF managing
the entire private business OF the country in addf
ron 70 their political functions
MR. HILLQUIT REPLIES.
Afr. HiIlQuit, IN reply 20 President schur1nan. de-
med thaf socialism was an impOtent force or an
illusion. he said that the socialist movement OF
to-day embraces 2O0O0oO people all over the world
whose principles are identically the same
The socialism Of to-day" he said '.as under
stood by socialists mentioned only passinelv
by DR. Schurman, when he spoke OF the socialism
or Karl Marx. That socialism calls for the public