The Topeka state journal. [volume] (Topeka, Kansas) 1892-1980, 1907-02-27
!. CENT Per CENT.
Hartman Thinks Dollar Profit
on a Dollar Investment
Is Not Too Much for the Rail-
roads to Make.
NO END TO HIS GREED.
He Would Take Over All Roads
in the Country
If the Law Did Not Stand in
His Way.

rlman that Stuyvesant Fish was depos-
ed from the presidency of the Illinois
central railroad because of misconduct
with the funds of the company, and
ending in a remarkable scene where the
government and the man stood con-
fronted, yesterdays session of the in
terstate commerce commission, at
which Mr.. Hartman was the only wit
ness, was memorable one.
The days events gave a vivid and
intimate realization of the problems of
swollen wealth and railway regulation.
it made a notable contribution to the
financial history-light and dark-of the
time.
Mr.. Harriman's explanation was con-
Quoted by Frank R. Kellogg, of St.
Paul, Mimi, special consel for the gov
eminent. The statement as to Stuyves-
ant Fish came when Mr. Kellogg, in
reference to the Illinois Central, spoke
twice of the 'squabbIe" between the
witness and Mr.. Fish.
one minute" exclaimed Mr.. Harri-
man. II will tell you how the presi-
dency of the Illinois Central was
changed If you want to know
Mr.. Kellogg remarked that it was
entirely immaterial, but Mr.. Hartman
was aroused and went ahead.
Says Fish Juggled Funds.
Il wish to prove to you that it had
nothing to do with the Union Pacific
said Mr.. Hartman. That the change
in the president of the Illinois Central
occurred after the acquisition of the
Illinois Central stock by the Union
Pacific was merely coincidence. There
has been no change in the management
of the Illinois Central. If the Union
Pacific had not disposed of a certain
amount of it's holdings of securities and
had money to invest in like securities,
it never would have acquired the Illi-
nois Central
In 1903, he said he was approached
by several influential directors of the
Illinois Central who asked him as to
the ACCESSIBILITY of reporting several of
President Fish's acts to the board with
q view of having the board request his
resignation. Mr.. Hartman said he took
steps to smooth over the difficulty. 1t
he said, that President Fish
had used ahis official position to further
his own interests, but he (Harriman)
prevented any action at that time. Sub
sequently Mr.. Fish repeated acts of the
same character and the board of direc-
tors of its own volition relieved him of
office. s=-.4- 5sNa
Mr.. Kellogg then started to resume
the com mission leaned over and adj
dressed Mr.. HarhfIna.4l 2 IN a lpw tone
His question apparently- related to the
Fish incident, and Mr.. Hartman spun
his chair around in facing the bench
and said:
yves, in 1908 Mr.. Fish deposited
over half a million dollars of Illinois
Central funds with the Trust company
Of the Republic. We. the directors, l
directed the sec
rotary to withdraw this money, and it
was done"
Mr.. Hartman then said that later in
he same year Mr.. Fish deposited with
he Trust company of America large
amounts of Illinois Central funds, thus
using this money ito pad the trust
,Ompany'S statement"
Hartman Lent Him money.
I'm addition to that" Mr.. Hartman
continued "he loaned to himself
arge amount of money during that
without the knowledge, 1 be-
ieve of the board of directors; and 1t
vas based on those matters that the
directors approached me after my re-
urn from Europe. fnterfered in
he interests of Mr.. Fish, loaned him
100000 to take up his obligations
o the Illinois Central, and let 1t re-
main with him for two years, most of
he principal. He paid it back grad |
tally until the securities which he had |
Up appreciated in value and he could |
orange for the matter, somewhere |
Use or dispose of some of it.
p subsequently, in January, 1904, he |
deposited with the Commonwealth !
rust company, successor to the Trust /
of the Republic, additional |
money again to pad the statements of
hat trust company, and continued to |
10 various things of which 1 think I |
ave said enough
THE trouble with Mr.. Fish, said |
1r. Hartman, was that he looked |
pom the Illinois Central as his person.
/ property"
He then told how Mr.. Fish contract
d for the construction of the Indiana
oils & ST Louis railroad and commit
ed the company without the consent |
r action of the board, wnen the board
ad previously expressed it's disap-
rovaI.
Kellogg traced the purchase of
outhern Pacific stock by the Union
'acific and Oregon Short Line, carry
lg it down to the famous sale of 300,-
DO shares to William G. Rockefeller,
reducing the Rockefeller letter al
eady in evidence.
1.-The sale was made on a reciprocal
greement made with Mr.. Rockefeller"
aid the witness, "by which Mr.. Rookie
lay 1, 1904, if he desired at the same
rice, with interest and commission
f five-eighths of 1 per cent, and we
ould take it back. Mr.. Rockefeller
aid Sc, 900, 900 in cash, and gave good
ollaterals. It.was a conditional sale"
1.-The sale to Mr.. Rockefeller said
lie witness, was a protective measure.
ure and simple. There had been
ormed a pool to speculate in the
outhern Pacific stock The pool had
ppealed to the shareholders and
ourts, and tried to get enough proxies
prevent us from continuing in the
of the property. The pool
tanned to sell it's own stock to adj
antage. We feared that they would
ct temporary injunction to prevent
s from voting the stock. In order to
revent this we took this method to
1able us, with other proxies that we
light obtain to secure voters enough
} protect us against this speculative
lterest.'
Attorney Kellogg devoted much Tina
1ring the day to an effort to estab-
sh the propositions that rates on the
Mon and Southern Pacific had re-
aimed fixed if they had not increased
yer period of several years, during
hich time rates generally in the coun-
" had heen reduced: that competf-I