New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1907-02-27
Says He Looked Upon Illinois Central as His Per
sonal Property"
PERSONALLY LOANED 81 100000 TO HIM.
Wants Law That Would Enable Corporations Make
selves" Same individuals

should have done, the Northern Pacidc's deveI-
op'rart would have been hastened ten years. and
that the Southern Pacific was ten years ahead
of what It would have been If tho Union Pacific
had no; become Interested In il When James J.
Hill, president Of the Great Northern. read that
part Of Mr.. Harriman's testimony ne chuckled.
Ny" h. said, Mr.. Hartman has got con-
troll of time, tco. has hep
Mr.. Hartman told OF the temporary sale OF
10000 shares OF Southern Pacific stock to
William Rockefeller in 1903 20 checkmate James
r. Keene, Who had formed q pool of the stock
and was trying to get the courts to order dis
tribution OF Southern Pacific earnings 70 the
stockholders. III. Hartman explained that he
was afraid Of an injunction TO prevent the
Union Pacific from voting 900,0OO shares OF the
Southern Pacific stock.
We wanted" he said, 10 get 10000 shares
of stock in the ownership Of somebody who
would act against the attempt of this specula-
tive Peol 70 control the property
NJ. Kellogg insisted that the rates on the
Union and Southern Pacific roads are higher
Uow than they we're in 1896, and wanted to
know II the increase was net due TO the con-
soliGaticn of the two roads SIr Hartman
denied that this was true, and added that there
woud be no decreas. in rates He said If rates
were lowered a panic would follow
At one point in the inquiry Commissioner
Lane appealed 10 Mr.. Hartman as a railroad
man of experience to tell Why one railroad cor
poration should have the right 70 buy up stocks
of other railway corporations, and Mr.. Harri-
man replied: L believe under proper regula-
tions and proper statutes. which would enable
railroads to combine and establish lines upon
which traffic could be moved at the least cost
we could reduce our rates; but so long as We
are prohibited by law from agreeing among our
SsI,- Of
prison, ycu have this chaos that now exists
In testimony which took the form OF pleasant
conversation with members Of the commission
late in the afternoon Mr.. Hartman talked
further the subject, asserting that the rail-
roads had themselves TO blame tor traffic re-
strictions which had been imposed on them. and
expressed the belief that The railroads should
be restricted by Law in freight rates while they
should be permitted TO combine their operations
in saving cost Of transportation.
Mr.. Hartman told of the delay last August In
announcing the increased dividend Of the Union
Pacific and the first dividend Of the Southern
Pacific. saying the announcement had been held
over 10 let the New York market have the bene-
Mt Of it, the decision 70 declare the dividend hav-
ing been reached after the market hour in this
city. He denied knowledge Of any pool to specu-
late on the increase in the price OF the stocks af-
feCted
Several times yesterday Mr.. Hartman de-
Clinad To answer questions about his private
stock transactions following the advice Of Coun-
sci. Il is not expected that an effort viii be
made 70 have him punished for contempt. al
though the c5mmssion ruled in each case that
he should answer. He was the only witness
heard by the commission yesterday. and he Will
give a little more testimony this morning.
The next witness to-day viii be otto II Kahn.
of Kuhn Loeb & CO. 1t is said that George J.
Gould will be witness, but counsel for the
commission would not say yesterday when they
expected 20 call Mr.. Gould.