New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1907-02-27

control OF the Southern Pacific, Mr. Hartman
said in reply TO a question by Commissioner
Lane. that it possible then to extend the
credit Of the Union Pacific He added:
It might have jeopardized the dividends on the
Union Pacific stock itself That Is we sHn ~
gated The stock TO the bonds II the Northern
turns from their stock. dividends, the income
Of the Union Pacific would have had to Pe V t54
| extent It would have had to be deducted from the
Commissoner fane|Hut as a matter Of fact that
/ event did not transpre?
Mr. Harriman-That event did not transpire in
Commissioner I.ane-You did take the slooOooooo
Pacific, competing line?
Q-Yoq object to the word competing? Al
Q.-You bought the Southern Pacific Now it
was, by virtue Of the Union Paclhcs revenue and
of the Union Pacific based on its earnings
81 2Its earnings were based in turn upon its re-
SO that by the raising Of rates You could in
crease the returns Of the Ualion Pacific? A.-But
t9 r0r by the lowering Of rates you might lower
had s2o0Oo0Ooo Of stock behind these bonds. on
ANN |,5o COM M1 were PAVING DIVIDENDS preferred stock
IL so IdF as we issued those bonds. jeopardized
OENow If Won i IL5br pc P4da on nose STOCKS
nlgh "a, and get large return from tho Union Pacific
4d f PV virtue OF that large return from the Union
more money B9n H the Union Pacific and borrow
then }nnds 10 LTaSm out and buy other railroads:
! basis o
refirrs it II Is also the basis of the
rates the Union Pacine y o1l ,attogetheE the
Is going become Of the Six ana S bIS Wat
mems Ic tt which We receive from the Invest
fnGW N, and WHICH goes into the treasury OF the
OF I ,CiitG; II doesn't come from fits traffic
Tqn Why should the Union upon sc fRis NT H 4a
credit as Isroa5 or or have the right out of
~ - uei 7Tias upon what that other railroad is
Hartman in the railroad world and w Saah iit r
Inc i'i rs 5uasment on that proposition AIR
20 answer II ofhand. It would require great deal
Of deep bought If had not had the power to
I2a Faelhe the territory Of the Southern Pacific
II We had hcqulred the Northern Pacific the NoFtS
ebaad a os TERRITORY would have been ten years
Santa IFcn v5 y9I 5,l h9k also i you acquired
very different question. ] believe we could I
ufl.e'e qhuer proper regulation and proper stat
at the least cost we could rdce I"%tI gg obTG
agreeing among ourselves without the danger OF
that now exists. Just rs soon as We can get laws
mat VIII enable us 10 combine and establish these
ines SO that we can conduct the traffic Oh the
lines OF least resistance at the least cost will
increase wages or to stand tho increase IN wages
Do I understand your reasoning to be this.
that lHasmuch as there IS some law which pre-
vents your combining with other railroads. YOU
VIII extend and buy other railroads? Al didn't
say We couldn't combine. We could not have con
curing all It's stock, snd there might have been
without acquiring all its stock. We had 70 have
the action of the stockholders.
Q..What f. tho law that you would want that
would bring about tAIs beneficial result? "A
ia" lHet would enable corporations TO make con-
tracts between themselves under proper regllla-
cons. Just ne same as individuals have the RICH,
70 make contracts-cOntracts that would be stand
ng ana enforceable FOR long term OF years. so
lines upon which traffic could be- moved nj LEAST
COSY, ak!us various parts OF the lines az they now
OF the burlington By the Northern Pacific ana tbs
- eat = oItLeih might not have taken place.
by the Union Pacific have taken place? At
between tho Southern Pacidc and t pon P6
doF Inc use OF the Southern Pacific lines so far
- l!T NJ, %sls NECESSARY and absolutely necessary
,r,5 " PAX competition would there then be be
Nv, 9t , w. Gdu me AvAs said IL should he
advantage Of The business interests of mis- coUnt
downb Iinne Ground upon improydGnt ana
more NOR economical line be used do not mean TO
oV" that line. because there are other condIto1eS
sometimes whom tho less fortunate uo ra oi as
business 10 better advantage ana at less cos can GQ
some lav"4nd f,il I , buJ there should be
Iness.oc Ia az ii,aL IN ms mind when he sent his
undaP SOM r~De laLg uafo-th&t there should DO
WI,icb w"Iid p r controi change in the laws
railroads ''''''''S 10 be made between
4-As a matter Of fact there are norbans oao 600
1000 miles that you know Of that arc 9,, aIf mere
QYou know ali the rates are na aie is, is
o ,.itfr computation with each other? At don't
the Ta anagers Of the ie r sfpSgs for
ar Tho h, rams ana they take the business
to do that That is true even in Your I6cni b
point on the Union Pacific Railroad that il so 1op
that is situated u1 n4nt On the Atchison road
lhoush they may be 200 or 300 miles apart IF We
along our transportation nea we have ye go l4dEstTss
me same service that exists at similar points ON
whether it ia local or not ~ i'o matter
a. QLrhere 9re two points in your examination TO
W tif WISH 70 refer one Is that capitalization
fxng u of hot control ana should not in the
,Q-The second proposition is the question Of ,bo
IEa' Gy rfoad TO use its profits. after it has
railroads Al don't think that is Gui]. o' tbc
Q-That is the question AT do n.y. tb,r,, a.,
railroads ought 10 use their profits to that extent
OF improving the lines they already have or else
they mghf ac9uro tb HSheSs OF railroad which
is 10 devro ! ib tle business OF the other.
tory. no matter what line you put it On For IN
stance I mo acquisition o. the Southern Pacific by
Pacific at tina: time enabled the Union Pacidc ~
nfrI Inc o0T'Il,rl fhGlHG $ZWOG0 or thereabouts
you are interested IN 1t. would like to show Won
the improvements in the Union Pacific We're " drsf
h,arl f ana inc maps that were submitted to the
nttiu oI directors or me Southern Pacific when K
MAS was first ,s started think it would be quite an
begun ana what they end in.
LONG CONFERENCE ON RATES
After recess Mr.. Hartman had a long CON
troversy with Mr.. Kellogg about rates Of tho
Union Pacific and other lines reaching the Pa
CHIC Coast. Mr.. Hartman kept insisting that
the Union Pacific had decreased its freight rates
IL per cent in ten years. while Mr.. KeIIoeq
produced long ARRAY Of figures from official
statements TO show that ra4ae b,a 49,.