Deseret evening news. [volume] (Great Salt Lake City [Utah]) 1867-1920, 1907-02-27
SIMPLY DECLINED
TO MAKE ANSWER
Commission Ruled That Hartman
Must Reply and He Over
ruled the Commission.
OTTO KAHN TELLS SOMETHING
He and Jacob Schiff Remained on U.
r. Board Because Felt 1t Was
putty to- the Public,

New York, Feb, e7--Just before the
interstate commerce commission con-
Quoting an examination into the flnan-
cIal operations of the Hartman roads
adjourned last evening, Mr.. Kellogg, OF
counsel for the government, said that
he had only lew more questions to put
to MIR. Hartman, but that he would
prefer they go over until today as the
hearing had already been prolonged
until late hour, Mr., Hartman at
first demurred, but OH Mr.. kelloEg's as
surance that he would only be detained
a few minutes today, adjournment was
taken with that understanding.
My Hartman took the witness chair
at little after ] o'clock.
MI Hartman testified that the Union
Pacific had purchased the st, Joseph
aud Grand Island since last year, The
price paid was S2O22 600 and the witness
had owned the property and sold Vt to
the Union Pacific,
Objection was made to questions as
to when he bought the stock of the st
joe, and Grand Island and what he
paid for IT. and the witness declined TO
answer
The commission ruled that he must
answer. ana there was the usual formal
refusal,
The witness said the st, Joe and
Grand island Was not a parallel ana
competing line.
Mr.. Kellogg asked Of whom the Now
York Central stocks acquired by the
Union Pacific were bought. Mr.. Harri-
man said they We're bought in the open
market
Wore you or any Of your associates
interested in the sale at the time OF
the Union Pacific purchase" asked Mi.
Kellogg.
Mr.. Milburn objected and MIR. Harri-
man declined to answer
Mr. Kellogg asked II 1t was not
facS that OF the S2g 000, 900 said to have
been spent upon the Chicago Alton,
$4,000 was made up of car trust GER
tifcateS ana $1,000. 900 from Kuhn.
Loeb & Co. so that the expenditure on
the line out of the new securities sold
were only about $4,000 900.
Mr. Hartman said that possibly the
figures We're correct, He simply knew
that S22 1000 900 had been spent upon the
line,
OTTO KAHN TEsTGFlEs.
The witness was excused aud Otto
Kahn, Of Kuhn Loeb s. Co. took the
stand.
Mr. Severance took UP the eNamlna-
ton OF Mr., Kahn and asked y few lucs-
lions as to the organization of his firm.
The firm Of Kuhn, I4eob & Co, were
bankers TO the reorganization commit
tee, and Mr., Severance asked the wit
ness concerning the stock Issuance,
bonding and general handling OF the
old Union Pacific securities and that is
rued by the re organization.
Mr.. Kahn replied from printed reports
and for some time the proceedings were
confined to a recital of details.
Mr.. Kahn said that both himself and
Jacob Ii, Sehiff remained upon the Union
Pacific board until q year ago. He
said he desired TO say that in going up
on the board they did so because they
felt It a duty TO the public which held
the securities, At the same time they
wished II understood that they did so
as bankers and at no time ceased to he
bankers, and that In dealing with the
Union Pacific they did so at arms
length. At no time had they ever
charged the Union Pacific more than
bankers regular commission and often
rendered valuable services for nothing.
About year ago they felt that the
necessity which caused them to 90 on
the board had passed, and also the de-
mands of their own banking business
lAfih lilCIFElNti, iiit NlFNlA VI lllt Onipil
Pacific had become firmly fixed and
he and Mr.. Schiff resigned from the
beard OF the Union Pacific.
Mr. Kahn said his firm had pur-
chased the Southern Pacific stock con-
troll which aftorward passed to tho
Union Pacific. but he insisted that II
was not bought with the understand
ing that the Union Pacific would take
it, the only understanding being that 1t
was to be offered TO the Union Pacific
Mr. Hartman, he thought, was in
favor of purchasing, but his firm took
a big risk In buying the Southern Pa
clhc stock as the remainder Of the
board might not approve OF II and 1t
would be left on their hands.
While Nh Kahn was upon the stand
MIR. Hartman remained IN the court
room At first he found q vacant
chair among the newspaper men who
occupied the jury box and after re-
naming there about half an hour he
went over and sat between Mr. Sew
erance and the other counsel.
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