davidaulloa/AmericanStories huggingface dataset:
The San Francisco call., 1907-06-02


Frank Drum? Al did not, directly
or indirectly, nor did it get in his
hands. It went to channel nothing
to do with this case 1t is a personaI
matter.
Q.-Was there any person drew q.
salary or compensation of any kind
from the Pacific holding company !?
A.-The regular salaries are all drawn
right straight through.
Q.-There is the president draws a
salary? A--Yes, sir; the three mem
bers of the executive committee, Mr..
Drum, Mr.. de Saba and Mr. Martin.
Q.-How much did they draw? A.
have to stop and think a moment
They draw, 1 think, $4,000 apiece.
"a year? A.-Yes. from the Pa
cific company; there are no salaries
drawn from the San Francisco by me.
Q.-Who is president? AIR. Brit
ton.
Q.-How much does he draw? A.
$4,000.
The San Francisco call., 1907-06-02
Heads Of Institution

O-What services was Drum to per-
form? A-Wcll, Drum. Martin and De
Saba were and always have been the
head men of the institution, attending
to finances and looked a1ter detaiis In
various ways.
O-Did that corporation at any time
employ Abraham Ruef? A.-No, sir.
O-Did he ever do anything in a
legal way for the company? A.-No.
o.-Did you hear that he had been
employed? A.-No, sir.
Or that his services were to be
given in the matter of fixing rates?
A--No, sir.
Q.-Did you have any connection
with the Bay counties water company?
A.--None whatever.
Q.-1s Mr.. Will Tevis a stock holder
in the Pacific gas and electric? Al
couldn't say. think he has a few
shares; I am not sure.
Q.-Whom did Mr.. Drum represent
in there, any one other than himself?
AL don't know; what stock he holds
Il In his name OF course whom he
represents I could not say.
Q.-He holds considerable portion
In his name? Al don't remember
Just the exact amount Of shares he
owns; always been a large stock hold
er. however, In all the companies.
Q.-Are De Saba and Martin share
holders in the Pacific gas and electric?
A-Yes, sir.
o.-Are you personally? Ayes.
sir.
Q.-And also Mr.. Pierce, or is Hal
sey. the stock holder? A-Mr. Halsey
is Z stock holder; I think Mr.. Pierce
owns holding share.
Q-And he II supposed to represent
N. W. Halsey9 A-Yes, sir.
o.@Now. to be perfectly frank with
you, Mr.. Drum. who was paying Ruef
from the time that you people organ
tied in December 81 900 . month salary,
ana in February he paid him $4,000
additional for services In liking the
rates; now, do you mean to say that
you have no knowledge that throws
any light on that transaction a. to
The San Francisco call., 1907-06-02
Owns but Few Shares

Q.-Is Mr.. McEnerney a stock holder?
Al think SO to a small extent only,
maybe one or two hundred shares.
Q.-This holding company, just what
is that? Does that hold all the stock of
the operating companies? A-The Pa
cific gas and electric company owns all
the stock of the San Francisco gas and
electric company and all the stock of
the San Francisco gas, except. I think
200 shares.
Q.-Is there no more stock of the San
Francisco gas and electric out? A.
There is little bit out. 1 am glad you
correct me on that; there was bonds
and cash provided for that, the stock
of the San Francisco, and that is all in
turning it in; every share of stock, I
think, probably 1000 shares outstand-
ing.
Q.-What is the idea of having a
holding company? A.-Well, the idea
was to raise the money to buy the San
Francisco stock to issue securities.
Q--High finance? A--Not partic-
ularly; to furnish means to get the
money. You see the holding company
issues its bonds, ten million capital
trust bonds secured by stock of the San
Francisco and California and gave those
bonds and four and half million in
cash to the San Francisco stock holders
in payment of their stock
Q.-Then they distributed these bonds
to banks? A.-No, San Francisco stock
holders got that; each stock holder got
$65 in bonds and SIS in cash and odd
fractions got scrip and got togethers
Q.-It makes two sets of officers get
ting salaries, don't it? A--No.
Q.-The holding company officers and
the operating company's?s A.-The Pa
cifc is really the operating company to
all intents and purposes outside of the
city and county of San Francisco 1t
owns the Fresno plant, the Vallejo
plant and all the California7scentral
plants; it owns those itself and it owns
the stock of the California gas and
electric corporation and that practical
ly operates all the plants out of here.
1t isn't a question of paying two sets
Of salaries but distributing salaries.
Q.-The $4,000 covers the salaries
paid? A.-Total salaries; that was the
understanding when we went In. Mr..
Halsey insisted that Mr.. de Saba and
Mr.. Martin should give a large part of
their time to the company and it wasn't
fair that two should draw salaries and
not the third and that was fixed
Q.-And that was originally fixed be-
fore you formed the company? A.
Yes, sir.
Q.-This Pacific was really a great.
big merger of companies? Alt COW
ers AZ corporations to tell the truth.
The San Francisco call., 1907-06-02
c. w. CONLIsK
c. ". CONLISK, recalled.

Mr.. Heney-You are willing TO con-
tfnue your testimony under the same
conditions? A.-Yes, sir.
Q.-The Pacific gas Improvement
company, is 1t the holding company?
A--No. Pacific gas and electric COM
pany.
Q.-That is the holding company for
the San Francisco Gas and Electric
Company? A.-Yes, SIR. San Francisco
and California
Q.-They hold the majority of the
stock in those companies? A.-Yes.
sir.
Q.-In that company who are the d.
rectors? A-F. B. Anderson. w. H.
Crocker-I can't think of all the men,
Parker, Frank Drum. De Saba, Martin,
Britton, Pierce, Tobin.
Q.-What Tobin is that? Aloe
Tobin, Halsey. F. H. Cutcheon, String
ham, G. W. Weeks. We have so many
companies and there are directors in
some and not in others.
Q.-Are you yourself a director?
A--No.
Q.-Now. do you hold any office in
the Pacific gas and electric company?
A.-Secretary.
Q.-As secretary can you tell US, are
you able to tell US, what salaries are
paid by the Pacific gas and electric to
its officials? Al think so.
Q.-what are they? A-Br1tton
$4,000; Drum $4,000: De Saba $1s,-
900; Martin $4,000; Pierce $4,000; my
salary is $4,000.
Q.-Were these salaries all fixed at
the same time? A--Yes, sir.
Q.-When was that? Al don't re-
member; some time in December be-
fore we Incorporated.
Q-December, 19057 A--Yes, sir,
when we were getting ready for the
new company.
Q-were each Of these parties ex-
pected to perform some service for this
salary? A-Most assuredly.
Q.-What were you to perform? A.
Secretary.
Q.-what was Pierce to perform?
Ale was treasurer.
Q.-What duties were Mr.. Britton to
perform? A-Britton is president. Out
side of our active offices in the COM
pany, we had to do work in all con-
stituary companies, irrespective Of
what they WERE
C.-For the same salary? A.-Yes,
sir, only salary we receive is salary In
the Pacific gas and electric.
Q.-Don't receive any in other COM
The San Francisco call., 1907-06-02
ABRAHAM RUFF
ABRAHAM RUFF, called fswo

ABRAHAM RUFF, called. (Sworn !
Mr.. Heney-I didn't ask-you are
willing to testify in this case here.
your testimony to be used against
yourself, If it has such a tendency.
such an effect?
Mr.. Ruef-This is in reference to the
gas matter?
Mr.. Heney-Yes.
Mr.. Ruef-Oh, yes.
OIL wish you would tell the grand
jury about the fixing Of the rates IN
1906, as to whether they paid you any
money in connection with that? Al
received from Mr.. Frank G. Drum
$4,000 as an attorneys fee, as spoken
of between ourselves, about the time
that the gas rates were being fixed OF
that money, / gave to Mr. Gallagher
for the board OF supervisors about, as
I remember 1t now, $4,000. 1t NAV
have been few hundred dollars more
or less. l think about $4,000. -
Drum spoke to me about employin,s
me in the service Of the company some
month or two before. believe, and en-
gagged me as attorney to represent the
interests. as I understood It from him.
which he represented IN the company,
at $1,000 month, Of which / received
believe, for two or three months. At
the time of the fixing of the gas rates
some of the supervisors, as was In
formed by Supervisor Gallagher, In
sisted upon fixing an extremely low
rate, such rate as would have been
ruinous to the business OF the company,
a rate which neither nor any one one
who had looked up the question woulc
have considered under any circum-
stances to be reasonable, proper or
maintainable. and said they were de-
termined absolutely to reduce those
rates. The matter vas brought up ut
The San Francisco call., 1907-06-02
CYRUS PIERCE

CYRUS PIERCE, called. (Family
Club.
Mr.. Heney: Mr.. Pierce, we are inves-
tigating the matter of alleged bribery
Of supervisors in the matter of fixing
rates for gas and light which was pend
ing in February, 1906, fixing of rates to
commence July 1, 1906, and the evil
dence here tends to show that the su-
pervisors were promised $3.50 apiece
and received that; subsequently, Is su-
pervisors. and that the money came
from Abraham Ruef to them. If you
feel that your testimony might have a
tendency to incriminate yourself, it is
your right and privilege to decline 20
be sworn as a witness and to decline
to answer any question that might
have such a tendency. If you are
willing to testify and your evidence to
be used against yourself, If it has such
you.
A-Mr. Heney, 1 am perfectly will
ing to testify fully and freely.
I have a personal dislike to be sworn;
don't like to be. if necessary, go
ahead and do it,
Q.-You mean because you are a
Quaker Al always dislike It.
(Sworn)
Q.-Are you treasurer of the San
IduClSCO SdS dHu SAcSlliS SOihPdhy :
A.-Yes, sir.
Q.-When did you become treasurer?
Al can't give you the exact date
The new company took over the old
company on the second of January,
1906. and I became treasurer within
a couple of weeks afterward, along in
that time.
Q.-And remaibed treasurer ever
since? A.-Still treasurer.
Q.-You were here along in February,
March? Al left here about the last
week in March for a short trip to New
York and all the time prior to that 1
was here.
Q.-About the last week in March
who took your place, who acted while
you were gone? A.-No one
WHO had authority, If any one,
to pay out money without a voucher?
A-No one.
Q.-What sort of vouchers were re-
quired? A.-What do you mean?
Q.-Were they required to specify
the particular purpose of the expendi-
not particularly, all the bills were sub
mitted; all original bills, all original
statements were submitted to an audit
ing committee
Q.-Were you on the auditing COM
mittee? Al was.
Q.-Was there any voucher or ac-
count that went through for the sum
of $4,000 A.-No, sir, none went; let
me withdraw that-there are many in
that neighborhood
The San Francisco call., 1907-06-02
No Theory to Advance

Q--Then You can't throw any light
on this? Al can not. sir, I have
no theory to advance. no knowledge.
directly or Indirectly of any OF the
matters spoken of then or now.
Juror: Is this the first intimation
you received in regard to matters Mr..
Heney has just mentioned to you A.
No, sir. it is not
Q--From what source did you re-
ceive it? Al received, the source.
from Mayor Schmitz. don't recall
when I went to see him about street
lighting one day and he accused mo
then or the company of having given
some money to Mr.. Ruef and I told him
as far as I knew I knew nothing at
all about it. I gave him my word OF
honor then I knew nothing about 1t.
Q--When was that2 Al can't re-
call Pretty hard for me to nix that
in my mind.
Q--Was it before the fire? A.-No.
no. only possibly three or four or five
months ago
Q.-Was it since these prosecutions
became active? All tell you when
1t was-I couldn't fix that--it was lust
before Mayor Schmitz left for Europe
The fact of his going away and the un-
settled condition of the street lighting
fund caused me to go to the mayor
as TO the certainty of our having suf-
mands for lighting being made and
then he spoke to me about 1t.
Q.-Had you seen the mayor to talk
TO him at any time prior TO that since
the fire? A--No. sir, I didn't see him
after l arrived from the orient after
that time
Q.-Did you see him before the fire?
A--The day the investigation began,
when | asked him what he thought the
supervisors were going to do with US
In regard to the matter Of fixing rates.
Those are the only ones
Q.-He didn't say anything them
about having heard anything about
money being promised? A-He
said he heard that Ruef had got
ten some money from the gas
company and wanted to know what T
knew-what knew about IT, / told him
then. as do now, that knew nothing
absolutely.
Q.-That was in the conversation lust
before he went to Europe? A--Yes,
sir.
Juror-Did his honor. the mayor.
seem to feel aggrieved that he did not
receive it? Ale expressed himself
aggrieved that money had been used, II
it had BEEN
The San Francisco call., 1907-06-02
Has Number of Room

Q.-Did you enter at the regular en-
trance where the clerks are or directly
into the room? A.-The number OF the
room was given me; there was nobody
around but Mr.. Drum: whether reg
ular clerks room or not, i can't say.
Q.--It had large fat top desk be-
hind which he was sitting? A.-Yes,
sir, 1 believe it was the corner room
1 am not sure.
Q-Where was the money paid to
you? AT the same place?
Q.-Was>it paid to you two or three
days after this first talk? Al can
not be accurate about the length of
time; it was paid to me shortly after;
Q-Was that before the rates had
passed? Al think not I think af-
ter the rates had been fixed.
Q-Short time after? A.-Yes, sir.
Q.-What kind of money was 1T,
currency? A-Yes, sir
Q.-Had you said anything about
getting currency? A-Yes, sir.
On this first talk? Al had
said to him-no, 1 think 1t was in the
second talk, when he agreed to pay 1t
to me that / suggested would like
to have it paid in currency, and then
thereafter he paid it to me-
Q-So you went there three times In
this matter? A.-Yes, sir, possibly
four.
Q.-Each time you Went dlrectiy INTO
his room? A.-Yes, sir; 1 telephoned
him or he to me-
Q.-was it large bills? Aft my
memory serves me correctly. it was
bills of about 500.
Q.-Did you give the same particular
money to Gallagher? Al can't
specify whether I did or not. may
have and may not have.
Q.-What did you do with the re-
naming $1,000 or about? Al was
trying to remember just how much 1t
was 1 am inclined to think little
less than $4,000. and of that l retained
one half and I accounted to Mayor
Schmitz for one-half-
Q.-By accounting to him, did you
give him one-half? A.-Yes.
Q.-Where? At his home
Q.-Any one else present? A.--No-
body present.
Q.-Do you know just when 1t was?
A.-Quite considerable time after
ward.
Q.-Had you had any talk with
Schmitz before the passage of the bill
about fees? A.-No, sir.
Q.-When did you first talk with him
about it? A.-After the matter had
DaSSed.
The San Francisco call., 1907-06-02
SAMUEL L. NAPTHALY

SAMUEL L. NAPTHALY G770 Pa
cific avenue). Sworn.
Mr.. Heney: Q.-Mr. Napthaly, were
you employed by the San Francisco gas
and electric company during the year
1902 A.-Hes,s sir
Q.-How long did you work for the
company Al entered their employ
in / sol OF 1900, somewhere along there
Q.-And remained in their employ
until when? A--First of February
this year, February or March practi-
csily. .
o-During the year 1906. at the time
the fixing OF rates by the board of su-
pervisors which were to be put in op-
Grafton July ], 1906, did you have any
talk with any Of the members of the
board Of supervisors IN regard to IT?
A-Only at the inquiry.
Q-At the meetings? A.!Yes, sir.
O-Never talked TO any one alone.
A-Don't think I did, no, sir.
Q.-During the time you were en-
ployed by the company was it part
Of your duty to look after. the oues-
ton Of rates7 A--No, sir.
Q.-You don't have anything to do
with II? A-Not in that year. having
been with the company and the oldest
man with the company, 1 went before
the board TO give the testimony re-
ouired.
Did you know anything about
the employment of Ruef in the matter
as an attorney? A-No, sir.
Q-Didn't hear anything Of that
sort? A--No, sir
Odd you talk with Ruef about
the matter of the rates? A--No, sir.
Odd you talk with Schmitz any?
A.-Oh. no.
Q-Have you any idea about where
the money came from that these su-
pervisors state that they got? Al
couldn't say, Mr.. Heney. L hadn't
ANYTHING to do with any money any
how; I was entirely operating.
Q.-You didn't have any authority TO
experz money for any purpose? A.
No. sir, except with proper vouchers
for the indebtedness incurred
Q.-And those in small amounts7
A-Yes. sir
Q.-You have talked with Super
visor Gallagher. have you not7 Al
don't think so; I may have seen Mr.
Gallagher
Q.-You haven't had any talk? A.
No' sir. Il don't think / ever talked
20 him. think the first
time really had a converse
tion with him met him Christmas
evening Of this year downtown: the
cars were stopped and took him home
IA the automobile, that is the only time,
i remember having anything 70 say TO
him. Say, how do you do, and some
thing like that.
The San Francisco call., 1907-06-02
where that money came from? A
Absolutely not.
Heney Doubts Statement .

Dwell, 1t hardly-of course ii may
be so-it would hardly be probable
that one man would pay the salary reg
ularly to Ruef unless there was some
arrangement by which this man was
to draw the salary without doing any
service himself; did Drum give as
much service as De Saba and Martin?
A.-Yes, sir; always considered that he
had; he was one of the original stock
holders of the California gas, and they
were interested together in all OF its
building and upbuilding and buying in
of other companies and matters of that
sort. We considered that they did
equal service always. / always looked
upon 1T in that light. and all the stock
holders. in fact
Q.-What. in particular, does he do
as a director in this corporation other
than to attend meetings of directors?
Alt would be hard matter to de-
termine just what his services are.
Q.-Does he do anything but attend
meetings of directors? A great
deal to do with financing of companies.
We needed millions of dollars to go
ahead with reconstruction and placing
the corporation on its feet. He has been
very instrumental representing fnan-
ciers and getting them to loan the cor
poration.
Q-From what sources has he Sc
cured money for the corporation?
A-From his own; from the different
banks and Mercantile trust company,
the Bank Of California and different
banks.
Q-Is the Bank of California con-
siderable creditor of the gas company?
Al don't remember exactly; we owe
all the banks money.
(Which banks do you owe the
most to? All alike; we bank with
half a dozen. Mercantile trust company
of California, Union trust company,
Crocker national, Donohoe- Kelly; we
bank with all the banks; that is our
policy.
Q.-Are you indebted to all OF them?
A-Yes. sir.
ON about equal amounts? Al
couldn't state; 1 don't keep in my head;
our policy has been in towns we do
business with to, bank with all the
banks in town
The San Francisco call., 1907-06-02
No Attorneys Voucher

Q-That could have been used for
the purpose of hiring an attorney? A.
No. sir. there were several attorneys
bills specified prior to that time, spe-
cial work 1 know all about. Legal mat
ter in relation to the consolidation.
Odd you have anything to do
withs the holding company? Al am
treasurer in that.
Q.-That is Pacific what? A.-Pa-
cifc gas and electric
Q.-Was there any attorneys fees
paid out in that company? A--Please
specify little clearer what you mean.
Q.-Any attorneys paid for services
in connection with fixing rates? A
No, sir, there was not.
Q.-Was any fee paid out to attor-
neys would you know what attorneys
it was paid to? A--Thef principal fee
was paid to New York attorneys for
drawing the legal papers for the con-
solidation.
Q.-You know that went to them?
Avery dollar of 1t.
Q.-Fee paid to Mr.. Garret McEner-
ney for work prior to January, 1906,
for the same purpose? A.-Yes,
and nothing else, Fee paid to
Mr.. McCutcheon of San Fran
cisco for the same purpose, three
fees; the counsel were associated to-
gether-Hubbell, Brown, Miller & Por-
ter, they represented us. Mr.. McEn-
erney, the California Gas and Electric
and Mr.. McCutcheon was in the San
Francisco company. Those bills were
all paid the first week in January
as soon as we took possession of the
company and all related to that legal
work and nothing else.
Q.-What bills were paid afterward
up to the time you left for the east for
attorneys? A-Not a single attorneys S
bill paid. unless it was some slight
balance for old work.
Q.-Any fee paid TO Mr.. McCutcheon
by the Pacific gas and electric COM
pany? Al don't think there has
been; certainly no extraordinary fee;
counsel for the company right along;
probably small bills; no extraordinary
fee paid to any attorney.
Q.-No fee as large as $4,000? A.
Not since that original work; know
all about that; simply legal work in
connection with forming the company;
that is square; I know that.
Q.-And that fee was fixed and def
mite as early as January, 1906? A.
Yes. sir
The San Francisco call., 1907-06-02

one of the Sunday evening caucuses,
and some of the members of the board
of supervisors insisted that the board
had been pledged by its platform to a
rate of rs cents per 1000 feet; they
thought that was even too much, and
made some strong speeches, and others
maintained the rs cent rate, and they
contemplated fixing%the 75 cent rate
that evening; that is to say, agreeing
to do it at the proper time. which, 1
suppose, was a week thereafter. IN
the meantime the company sustained
a heavy fire loss, not the fire OF April
IS, but the previous fire, which caused
them a great deal of damage, and
told Mr.. Drum that it would De
necessary for me. in order to protect
the interests of the company and the
interests which he represented, to have
an additional attorneys fee. and told
him that I thought it would require
$4,000 He considered the matter and
one day, a day or two afterward, he
agreed to pay me the additional attor-
ney's fee of $4,000, which I thereafter
received.
Q.-where did the conversation take
place in which you told him about the
necessity of having that $4,000? A.
At his office in the Mills building.
Q.-Was any one else present? A.
No
Q.-And whom did you see when You
went in there, going in? Al thiuk
he was there in this particular Office
alone.
Odd you telephone him before
going? A--Either he telephoned me
or I telephoned him and an appoint
ment was made to meet him in this
room.
Q-Was that his regular room there?
Al presume so; 1t was one of a
series of offices belonging, l think, to
4 L. Tlnr-i L. cfof