New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1907-02-27

whose election 4
been directors of the Union Pacific. and he eX
pected that they would continue 70 be director
by which the directors OF the santa pe w ''0o
The Chairman-so that in point OF fact up Z
this time there IS officer OF director Of me SAM.
Fe who IS also director or the mon racine liz
s2q T HsI Ph62 iF t TIM Ai n0
were directors OF the Union Pacific? Al believe
toSctler with YOU, a large amount of Santa T!
stock? A-Mr Ripley probably knew better than
question because do not think you have any righ
interest IA Atchison or Union Pacific with me.
ARRANGEMENT WITH SANTA FE
o-I-nder that arrangement. instead of the, Santa
Fe building into and having railroad into the tef-
I made an arrangeInent with tho santa Fe Com
pany for a joint alternate shuttlecocdng manage
are inventing another phrase. There is no shuttle
cock ABOUT r. II IS pH {e o ana imnortanf roPertes
and for the DEVELOPMENT Of important properties peri
and for the development OF territory tributary -
OF is a Joint ownership? At IS a Joint own
ership of the Santa Fe and Southern Pacific north
OF san Francisco. leading into Meudosino County.
a. Under fbat orr3ngenent there is an alternate
might call it a Joint management, -
eliminated? A-There never was any. The Santa
Fe had interests up IN Mendosino COUNTY, some one
the California 3 Northwestern road, which vas Is
owned
not question Of construction OF pariIvi ines
much it q question of traffic or trackaG,e
nus Of the California & Northwestern and That
road itself, whether joint owngTsnlp was not De'-
Q.-There is a CONTRACT for the Joint controi OF
am quite proud of it. We made great sacrifices to
o fIr is one railroad which is Jointly operated
by the Santa Fe and the Union Pacific: Alt Is
ODWeIi it IS to be? A-so far as the California
& Northwestern is concerned it IS now under JOINT
Q-And when constructed It is TO remain under
Joint control? Al hope, so: .o,., ca,+ Ta,,o IN
California, also under joint control between I!e
Union Pacific and Mr. Clark? Ayes; put we
O-JontIy with him. You sold him 5l2 miles be-
Ione F - 6e prpose Of enabling the line between
Salt Lake and Los Angeles TO be completed quicker
than it otherwise could have been; ,,,,. - r,t,
QThat is you contributed to that Inc 3d }'i
road 5l2 miles; is that correct a lHa
railroad that he had been building? A-Hes some
o%And You put into 1t a railroad, and the Union
Pacific or the Short Line and Mr.. Clark owned the
oMYo9 provided for Joint management? A
Yes; developed new railroad; 7,,,,eo ,+o
that with a contract? A.-And opened new avenues
Q@Yes. hut they all lead to the same place. the
Union Pacific? Al hope SO. The Union Pacific
is quite capable Of doing 1t.
THE ATTACK on STUYVESANT FISH.
Mr.. Hartman was led to say that the Union
Pacific had acquired large interest IN the
Illinois Central Railroad. He said the Union
Pacific had not exerted any influence on &C
count of that interest. and Mr. kellogg paved
the way for an attack on Stuyvesant Fish, the
former president of the Illinois Central, by ask
ing:
O-Weu. some influence was exerted 70 change
the president. it not. after the acquisition OF
the illinois Central BY the Union Pacific! ADO
you want ms TO tell YOU about that?
Oh just want that question answered a.!
WI tell y9gp how the Illinois cenra's president
81 donSt care anything about that squabble.
ask you what influence changed H. A-lieFe was
Nj MibIrnNIt is not fair TO open up question
OIL am perfectly willing he should explain It.
Of the ' Illinois Central took place In September
1903 after had been abroad about three months;
arriving here, was approached by several o.
the influential directors Of the Illinois Central ask
Mr. Lovett-,Wait moment Mr. Hartman
(Pause) All right.
to know when the change was made. ASKING
directors, with a view of having them request the
6Sow to FsSEa 5aaI I al want to prove
to you that II had nothing to do with the Union
Pacihc-that change in the management or change
Q.-Go ahead If you want, to. have no ob3ec-
ton. A.-And at that time I took steps 10 smooth
over the difficulty which had arisen, ana which
had been using his position as president 10 further
his own personal interests. 1 prevented action by
OF tho president. and retained him in Office bat
subsequent to that he continued to act IN the
Central, purely and simply from the interests OF
position II you Want the detail Of it. cam give give
Il TO YOU.
- Q-The change, in the management OF the Illinois
Central occurred A.-There hasn't been any
change in the management OF the Illinois Central
after the acquisition OF the Illinois Central stock
by the Union Pacific company? A.-That was only
Q.-Wen, 1t preceded that, did it not? At was
only Il coincidence. If the Union Pacific had not
disposed or = certain amount OF It's holdings OF
curites and had money TO invest in Ike securities
Commissioner Lane-in what manner was The
president Of the Illinois Central using his position
AIr. HarrimsnI-Well; ~ the spring Of 1903 he de
posted more than $4,000 with the Trust Company
small company-and then went OF TO Europe I
came home from a trip 10 California and found
the directors who conVersant with that fact
We directed the secretary Of the conna, S' t III,
Ger of the Trust Company Of the Republic and was
frankly told that IL We demanded return Of rbat
ruptcy. So we gradually drew that money down
until got it all back, some time during the sI,n
mer OF 1893. That was after went to F;1r0na hat
we got It all out but, notwithstanding chat fact
On June ~ 1903 the president again deposited a
large amount OF money with the Trust COMPANY
OF the Republic and then had 1t returned about
illinois Central Railway Company to pad the an
counts I 81 me Trust Company Of the Republic
. ~ t.uIttoh 10 that he loaned to himself large
amount OF money during that summer without
"a - yieuSS 3eHeVe or the board of directors
anu Al was based on those matters that the al
Fe est who had become conversant with those
Iacts approached me after my return from Eurone
with the request that ] join with them to- take
me me matter before the board Of directors Of the
1ILLols Central with the intention OF having Mr.
Fish deposed; I interfered in the interests OF Mr.
tlsi loaned him $500 900 to take up his obligations
TO the Illinois Central, and let II remain with hx1
Tor two years, most Of the principal lie paid 1t
back gradually until the securities which he had
up appreciated in value, and he could arrange for
tha matter somewhere else or dispose Of some of it,
subsequent to that, he again. in January 1904
deposited with tho CommOnw ealth Trust Company
TIE successor OF the Trust Company Of the Re
public, additional money, again pad the state
i!.ents OF that trust company and continued 90
various things OF which think / have said
enough. They are all matters OF record. and can
be taken 10. They indicated that he looked upon