New-York tribune., 1907-02-26
HARTMAN ON DEALS.
Continued from first page.

Securities stock, at cost OF about $40 900 Our
annual report, our statements an snow tnal l,g %
Supreme Court unJustiy-it may have been legal
lesser amount Of Northern Fac.nc man We had de-
posted with the Northern Securities, and Ior NAil
time that stock. the Great Northern and the NortE
a market value Of about I5eeee1- aill 30 back
3ust In,P95e :. M m t ae [inS@ s fe ~ s T5ct
had been offered 70 the stockholders, making
Northern Pacific we had about Ss29)o.oo, And
that when We took over the Great @ ths5n IN anu anu
Securities stock, vas worth in the market about
we held II until tie market piee increased in value
10 somewhere near Sl4a.e@ggg or $!Slg.yvy, t.
Rt that value the from the Northern Pacific
ana Great northern were less than per cent on
that it was better 70 sell those stocks and invest vest
Us greater returns So that. following out that
line, had sold enough OF those stocks 10 realize
SIG o0oeD We reinvested that in securities listed
here other than Baltimore Ohio at cost OF about
m Ne e h@5o % Pdn name or tba 6reEon Short
T,na SEort ,,-1 Pacc and Great Northern stock at
the present market value OF about S3o0Jtv,n 80
that that would make. with sl6Gn99 OF the aye
OO0OD0 The Baltimore & Ohio stock purchased has
not TO be paid for urtil March. and september 49,,
stocks sS5 000Gl3 ard $l-6GpoOo0 already realized Is
ap9ut $oIgeeyl ne ssoch oL III {ie -, ~, bsnd If
sold at present prices. would make S6l.o4"V Re,
snG paid for. We have to pay for Baltimore 3
Ohio $i500oOs. So that the proceeds Of t4e NoTf1- Nof
son1ethfng Ike S7o0o 0 in excess Of the cost Of all
fbe securites pnTcissed: and the income from
those securities instead Of being as it in the
Of the Great Northern and Northern ticlitc'
sS9s5 s6se5 S'@o''' OF '5'''''' VIII lpf ''''','.
So that il we had held Great Northern and North ;3r
ern Pacific We would have inYestrIleIt IeL-l1 L-l1is
less than S3.5eoOoe and the market value WoIia Wi
81 6oocS5 or So656oo Witch you refer TO the
difference between the market price OF t3S Sefet
and Sorthefn Nor herr i55t Pacific
EXPECTS PROFITS OF 100000.
o.-Then if Northern Pacific and Great n, North
innate Your profits in that at about s6looo"o?
A-Something like that - . +ro
other stocks that you have bought at c9nLuT Tbat at
f. 6Ssge 6ow y0R Me may are oIS not m nfsbe have made
a1y any mi mistake @ IN g5 Iy Ng our best Judgment We
had this Investment in seeurl ues. me ,IIo M, &c
those investments 10 the best advantage We couLu.
and reinvested in the securities WIlcn We teTsst
We're Of the highest class and OF Inc most I'e'7'
Q@Then The Investment of tae Union Paeiflc IN
stocks depends. Ike any ojhor sI9ch @ ~ anv- ioas
Il not? Al do not think So think y IS Il ~ aT
stei ts or ~ i oyIasrion Of value
Q.-You have been selling stocks OF the Nor5nerh 5
Q-You are selling Northern Pacific stocks noWF
o3You have been this winter, have you not?
Al think We have; Yes We nave + Sotd a. sTae9 Taeq
few months, I don't know Just when. n. Question
Mr. Hartman You have bought according TO this
statement sl67 10000 In round numbers leaving It
about s5a6ls0)o. Is that correct? Al nave no
$50 you bought. since July l. slal.eoo.ooO about
oEThat makes Sls2oi6G0 In addition to that
yog sn4 69qsh5 4dn the a dst 40T ha Sot add
TO sl31oe6g We bought s1nGe & Suy yonr nsTon
Await a minute. Since July we nave @ P,I-
chased SIS 10000 II stock and paid for. ana we nave
sold Sl600epl leaving $3lO00,09 in excess OF the
oYoH have ezglained that once Mr. Hartman
Now IL you Will answer my question: your puIo
Al cannot cencede that MI Kellogg IN the way
'il and You gou bought since July S131 O000oo2 A
Wei, we have issued other securities tnan the
o-I am simply asking You about your Ppr-
chases and sales A.-The other securities Whlcl
we purchased were different from these securities
Q.-Qne moment-if you viii answer i ny n.y. cues
for securities than tie price received for those
0-Assu1ninz he Baltimore { Ohio Is paid for
You mean? A.-lrGat is we paid $ls2eJ9,ogo more
o-For securities. That Is what your statement
fefa TR6t we purcassd . and ali these SECURITIES that
we purchased and 1nancee IJi0c M TO 5S. hctIqlaS lug,
C.-Yes. sir Now. the other statement you hold
down % the present time A-Wel' that is 10
o-Fes. sir That Leaves how much? A.-oh.
see what YOU mean nov ~ m 55 bsS your Parooa a try
ing TO have the whole thing all right there.
Q-That leaves about SAFaeF2 A.--Apogt tna,, tnal,
and paid fc~ it? A-No sS5.s" on
G5.-ln securities. making Sls2.FhNN your pul-
cl-ases exceed your sales? A.-That is the way it
seems ny that statement.
Q.-cAnd YOU claim your prohts on l me e -\orLrer +
PaGic deal If s &C. stocks @ @ are % tkn o1 al fHg ca anv
profit. Now wait minute, Mr.. Kellogg: let me
have my way little bit. ,
Nr. Harriuan-AH those securities. that We pur-
chased prior 10 July We purchased Tor me me prG w
corporation. not to be sold again and have been
an entirely different wa, from the purchase Of the
pgrs s1d
lines from the books Of the other purchases made
Northern Pacific and Great Northern since July
10 the best Of our ability
NOT SPECULATION. HE SAYS.
Mr. Hartman differed with Mr. Kellogg again
as 10 the reasons for the Union Pacific pur-
chases of stocks Of other railways. He said
the Union Pacific was not speculating in stocks
Q-Ther do I understand that the stock Of the
Illinois Central Of the Baltimore q Ohio, Of the
Chicago d Alton. Of the New York Central ana
manent investment or control? A.-They are Ger
therefore. through the reinvestment Of the pro-
Q.-Are they for permanent investment. or for
ceeds, resnvestment Of the proceeds Of the Great
Q.-I know. but are they for permanent invest
znent or do YOU expect 10 sell them again? Al
1sHe 40 eEpscIaL-on anout ~ never IN SI-cqsI t Ul
Q.-rhen you consider that permanent invest
ment? May ! so can II? A.-That is what We con
Q.-Now. you stated q short time ago that you
have outstanding S35 10000 OF the securities OF the
Union Pacific and Short Line. and that you had
purchased stocks in excess Of that amount. You
have also outstanding obligations OF S5 800 for
the purchase Of the Baltimore & Ohio, have you
nor2 A.-Yes, sir; that Is right
d offer in evidence a letter Of September H.
1906 which | desire read TO the commission
TLetter received In evidence and marked Exhibit
& TO Mr. Harriman's testimony
o-Then you have paid So 9,I23,52S cash2 A.-Yes
sir
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