The Salt Lake herald. [volume] (Salt Lake City [Utah]) 1870-1909, 1907-02-27
Refused to Answer.

Of any unusual buying of Union Pacific
stock, but when the question was APP
Piled with direct reference to himself,
Mr. Milburn. his counsel, objected and
Mr. Hartman refused to answer.
Did You or your associates buy any
stock then in anticipation of this divi-
dend?" persisted Mr. kellogg.
Il have always bought Union Pacific
more or less" replied Mr.. Hartman.
Then suddenly he wheeled around and
said:
81 bought Union Pacific stock in 1893
for 50 a share in anticipation Of that
dividend L bought il at the time of the
panic, when one of my associates de-
clared ] had more nerve than any spec
ulator he ever knew. deeming it specu-
lation- l bought il then in anticipation
of that very dividend. I bought il on the
decline all around after the san Fran
cisco fire, in anticipation OF that very
dividend
Commissioner Clement then asked Mr..
Hartman why he objected to telling
whether lie had or had not bought the
stock.
,..on a matter of principle, simply" re
piled Mr.. Hartman.
What is the principle involved the
reason?" Commissioner Clement perse-
vered.
Lawyer Milbprn again put in his OBJ
lection, and Mr.. Hartman remarked
aside: Il haven't any reason. / am in
the hands of my counsel"
Question Of Rates.
Attorney kellogg devoted much time
during the day to an effort To establish
the propositions that rates on the Union
and the Southern Pacific had remained
fixed. IL they had not increased. over a
period of several years, during which time
rates generally in the country had been
reduced; that competition had been de-
stToyed in the territory covered by the
Union Pacific system; that the purchase
of stock in the Santa Fe was a move to-
ward the naturalization of competition by
that line. and that the vast sums devoted
to betterments and dividends by the
Union Pacific had been taken from unfair
rates. The witness was not willing to
make any concessions or any material adj
missions to those contentious. and most
OF the testimony was discussed between
lawyer and witness as to the facts and
conditions involved
Mr. Hartman declared Union Pacific
rates had been reduced Il per cent since
he became president. and fell back on the
assertion that the expenditures for i'm
Drovements had developed the country
and placed the system in condition 10
handle the great traffic that has come in
later years, and that he and his stock
holders were entitled to the benefits their
enterprise had won.
There was an interesting discussion Of
the per ton per mile computation Of rates.
Mr. Hartman said the calculation was
faulty because from the standpoint OF a
low rate it was adversely affected by high
class freight. Mr.. Hartman at first had
remarked that he did not think II would
necessarily be wrong for a road to earn
Is per cent on its capitalization.
Really No Limit.
Where would you fix the limit? asked
the commissioner.
'sNhy 100 per cent if you like" replied
Hartman quickly, and then outlined his
views. He said that as long as a road
was properly conducted and gave proper
facilities and at no higher rate than was
charged by any other road, 1t was entitled
TO its earnings no matter what they were.
There was no reason why the stockhold-
ers should not receive the benefits result
ing from good management.
What are you going TO do with it?' he
asked. Are you going to donate it to the
government or what?
could return 1t to the shippers" remark
ed Mr.. Clements, to the amusement of
the room.
Mr.. Hartman then made a plea for
some form of legislation which would per-
NIT railways to arrange for traffic hand
ling under supervision of some such fed
eral body as the interstate commerce
commission, with proper regulation and
limitations which would enable them 10
handle their business lawfully and intel
ligently. He thought such law permit
ting a combination of roads would pos
sibly result in lower rates,
How the System Spread Out.
Commissioner Lane then began a sketch
of the foremost requirements of the
Union Pacific under Hartman. He be-
gan with the issuance of the 800, 600 600
in bonds and traced its purchases out to
Portland on the coast, to the Orient by
steamship lines back TO San Francisco
a. n,rln