Daily Kennebec journal. [microfilm reel] (Augusta, Me.) 1870-1975, 1907-02-27

~~-N-
it was done" Mr.. Hartman said that
later in the same year, Mr. Fish mad de-
posted with the Trust Company OF the
Republic large amounts OF Illinois Gen.
trail funds, thus using this money to
pad the Trust Company's statement
Hartman said he personally lent Fish
81 5000 to help him out and so that he
could take up various obligations
Notwithstanding the boards action,
continued Mr.. Hartman in 1904 Mr.. Fish
again began to deposit money OF the ILL
nois Central with certain trust compa-
MES 'in order to pad statements"
1.-The trouble with Mr.. Fish," said Mr..
Hartman. was that he looked upon the
Illinois Central as his personal proper
ty.''
He told how Mr.. Fish had entered into
one contract for the construction of the
| Indianapolis & st. Louis Railroad ana
J committed the company without the con-
sent of the board which had previously
expressed its 1isapproval of this project
AS Mr.. Hartman told the story of Mr..
Fishs overthrow from the Illinois Cen
| trail, everyone leaned forward TO catch
| his explanation of this sensational rail-
way incident. For the first time Harri-
| man spoke with warmth and feeling,
dropping his quiet rather amused air.
Mr.. Kellogg opened the question Of the
| Union Pacific purchases in the Illinois
Central, but it had not proceeded far be-
| fore an objection diverted the hearing
for half an hour. Mr.. Kellogg wanted
to know if Mr.. Hartman was one of a
| pool that sold Illinois Central to Union
Pacific, and Mr.. Milburn objected to it as
not a question affecting interstate COM
merce but purely private one.
Mr.. Hartman said the traffic men know
| nothing of capitalization and paid no at
tention to it. Capitalization cut no figure
in sales. The witness said he could see
that the interstate commerce commission
must consider capitalization in consider
ing dates.
The witness said that the country must
have more liberal laws. We should b.
allowed to consolidate should be as free
as individuals. He declared that the
country traversed by the Southern Pacific
was 10 years ahead of where it would
have beer if the Union Pacific had no-
secured control; the country traversed
| by the Northern Pacific was 10 years be-
| hind whore it would have been if the
Union Pacific had secured control
Mr. Lane wanted to know if 1000 of the
10000 miles of railroads in the country
was truly competitive and the witness
declared that practically all the roads
We're competitive. He said every mile of
| the Union Pacific and Santa Fc wal; COM
petitive.
At this juncture Mr.. Clements turned
| to the witness and asked that in view
Of his statement regarding Mr.. Fish if
! he did not think he had better withdraw
his objection to answering a certain line
| OF questions. Mr.. Milburn was on his
| feet in an instant, but Mr. Hartman
| turned quickly to the bar and, half rising
said:
| - do not. 1t is not q similar case. No
| funds of the Union Pacific were ever used
| by any official for his private better
| ment'
The commissioner finally ruled that the
witness must answer about the pool and
under advice of counsel the witness de-
| cllned. Four other questions about the
| Illinois Central stock were also refused
on the ground of privacy. The witness
said that he would say that there are
| persons ready to pay more than the
| Union Pacific had paid for the Illinois
| Central stock ard that he believed the
| Union Pacific could sell it now for wha-
| he paid for it.
| When the hearing was resumed at
2.l0. Mr.. Harriman's examination pro-
| ceeded.
| MT. kellogg's first question was
| based on Mr.. Harriman's remark at the
| morning session that the Northern Pa
| enc would have been 10 years ahead
| of its present con Iii ion if the Union
| Pacific had retained control Mr.. Har-
| rlman said there would have been q
| vast Improvement in its equipment and
| development Of the great country which
| it reaches.
He commended that the commodities
| handled by the Union Pacific were of a
| higher class than those handled by the
| Northern Pacific and this should be
| taken into consideration when the rel
ativc sales We're under consideration.
| Mr.. Hartman said the Union Pacific
| rates had been reduced about II per
| cent. in the last 10 years. Analysis of
| Il rate table followed. Mr.. Hartman
and Mr.. Kellogg together looking over
a rate chart and the examination pro-
ceeding in running fire of quick ques-
lions and replies.
| The witness was examined as to rates
! on the Union Pacific. Southern Pacific
| and Northern Pacific, Mr.. Kellogg seek
ing to show that while other roads
were reducing rates. the rates on those
roads had remained substantially the
same if indeed, they had not been ad-
vanced. The witness explained that the
figures were affected by character of
commodities and the addition of branch
| lines.
| "Why cannot you get some of that
Puget Sound lumber?" asked Commits
| sioner Lane. eve have no line and we
have always been refused an arrange
ment.
| '"Thcre is power in the commission to
| compel an arrangement and fix a rate,
/ said Mr.. Lane. 81 wish the commission
| would take the matter up and settle
/ it," said Mr.. Hartman.
| Mr.. Hartman said that when class
| of freight is considered. the Union Pa