Deseret evening news. [volume] (Great Salt Lake City [Utah]) 1867-1920, 1906-01-29
TESTIMONY IN
PACKERS CASE.
Taking Of il Begins, Attorneys
Having Failed on Statement
OF Facts.
ADVICE GIVEN TO CLIENTS.
Regarded Power of Commissioner to
Compel Evidence--Meeting With
Garfield Described

| 1nlcaso, Jan. ZJ.-Ali eftOftS by lne
| attorneys in the packers case to reach
| an agreement upon the facts at issue
| having failed, the case was resumed to-
day and the taking of evidence was
| commenced
The first witness was Louis G. Kraut-
| hon of New York, formerly general
counsel for Armour & Co. lie was
| placed on the stand to narrate his in
teryiew with Commissioner OF CorpoT-
atoms Garfield at the Chicago clus.
April 10, 1905, when the packers allege
| Mr.. Garfield said certain things, the
import of which was that, II he received
the information for which he asked,
the packers should never be prosecuted
criminally.
Judge Humphrey ruled that II 1t were
true that the packers had divulged EVIL
dence against themselves under pres
sure from the government II would be
competent to show the nature OF the
legal advice under which the defendants
were acting.
Il then asked him." said Mr. Kraut-
hoff, whether we were to be protect
ed in case Of dishonest special agents
He assured me Of this, and said that
we were protected by the law, the
source of his Information being a Sc
ciet. | asked him about some of this
and even to the department OF justice
He told me to have no apprehension
on that subject. | then asked what
use the president OF the United States
wished TO make of the information. He
answered with emphasis that, OF
course. the president of n great nation
would not allow anything to happen TO
which any one could take exception. He
further said that where figures and
data came from unquestionable sources
the oath was not necessary, but II any
thing came up In regard to the oao1
he would let us know. on his as
surance that all information would be
kept inviolate In the bureau OF corpora
tons, answered some question re-
garding the prices of cattle and similar
matters. We talked something fur
Their but | think that was the sub
stance OF IT,"
What did you say your clients
would do as to the production Of the
eVidence?" asked Atty. Miller.
II said that as understood his po-
sition as to keeping our disclosures con-
fldential, | would alvise my clients TO
do as he asked. He said that he IN
tended to make a report so accurate In
detail that there would be no question
regarding t., and for that reason he
wanted to look into the books and still
reserve the right of an OATH
Mr.. Krauthoff declared that acting on
the statements OF Commissioner Car
field he had advised Swift g. Co, Nell
son Morris & Co., and Armour 4 CO..
to submit their books to the investiga-
ton.
Atty. Miller then asked the witness;
did YOU advise your clients as to
the powers of the commissioner to conn
! pei testimony
Il did, fully
did you advise them to comply with
| his requirements in case he should call
for testimony
That was the principal subject on
which | advised them"
The witness then described his meet
ing with Commissioner Garfield as fol-
lows.
Charles q. Dawes telephoned TO me
and said that Mr., Garfield was In the
city and asked II | desired to meet
him. | said that | would, and in com.
pany with Dr. Samuel McRoberts, |
called to Mr.. Dawes bank and We went
to the Chicago club. | was introduced
by Mr. Dawes to Mr.. Garfield After
some remarks about other matters Mr.,
Garfield opened the matter and IL was
discussed for nearly two hours. Mr..
Garfield stated in formal way, appar-
emily careful of his language, substanti-
ally this:
THAT the Martin resolution imposed
upon him a duty of investigating the
packing industry; that In order to do
this he must have access to the books
Of the packers His purpose in coming
to Chicago was TO gain this access.
He said that he had held a conference
with the president and others in re.
spect to the investigation and that it
was of very great importance. He said
that he was particularly anxious that
the investigation should be fair. ex-
haustive and thorough, so that the use
fulness OF his department would he
shown. l knew the powers of his Office
and produced pamphlet. a report of
the secretary of commerce and labor
and remarked. that, OF course. / knew
OF his power TO get information"
My first remark was that | had had
occasion to look into the law. He
then said that he wished to make a
success and not resort to detective
methodS and wished TO report TO the
president so that he could report to
Congress.
He He again said that he spoke
for the president and that, of course.
we would have the protection neces-
sary under the law creating his depart
ment. ! told him that my clients were
In a very delicate position and that the
newspapers were full of matter per-
taining to them. / told him that II the
law was valid there was no doubt he
could compel the information. told
him that II the results OF this sub
mission to his requirements were TO be
further newspaper notorlety and litiga-
ton, l would OF course. contest the
law. He said that the letter OF the
law protected my clients | called his
attention to the questions OF the valid
lily OF the law He answered that his
department must necessarily be sep
arate from the other departments and
particularly the department OF Justice.
and that II II We're known that his de-
partment was affiliated with the do
partment of justice. OF course, people
would not give him any information.
He said that II / conceded that the law
was valid the matter was divided into
three classes--that 10 which the gov
eminent was entitled. that which was
doubtful. and that to which the gov
eminent was not entitled. He then de-
tailed how Il would be done; his
special agents to go TO one house and
begin the investigation.
II said. In View OF his determination
to acquire this information. | felt
hesitate to continue"
The witness turned to Dist Atty
Morrison and asked:
MIR. Morrison. do YOU wish to oh
jec,
say what you told him." said Judge