The times dispatch. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1903-1914, 1905-09-29
Vigorous Objection BY B y
lMr. Perkins to Bring lin !.
ing Them III Out.
BIG ADVANCES ~
PAID TO AGENTS
New York Life Shown to Have
Spent Larg@ Sums to Secure
D Services u Good, Equi-
table Men-Clash
With Coun-
NJ sci. sell.
(By yAssociated Press J

(By3 Assocla ated Press.)
Sg NEW YORK, September 2s.-Several
4 Sensational incidents developed at the
i session OF the Legislative Committee on
& Life Insurance investigation to-day. The
first was when George w. Perkins, vice.
y president Of the New York Life m
surance Company and member OF 4 the
II firm OF J. F.. Morgan & Co., objected
TO producing the books OF his firm, show
ling certain transaction OF that firm
b with the New York Life. Mr.. Perkins
offered to present a copy OF the entry
4 in question from the books, but Mr..
y Hughes demanded the books after several
rcfusals on the pnrt OF Mr.. Perkins. The
books Will be produced later. f5s5 3
In the course Of his testimony. Mr.
Perkins when asked concerning the diff
Il ference In the statements Of profits
from securities in the Massachusetts re-
II port Of the company and of met profits
from securities s In the New Y ork re-
port. said Il .,sst
When we get national supervision, we
won't have these conflicts between the
different stntcs.'''5 sE
Mr.. Perkins testified to number OF
A transactions in which, he Y represented
* Morgan & Company as seller. and the
If New York Life Insurance Company as
4 purchaser.
Advance. to Agents.
Another sensation was sprung later In
II the day when Vice President Thomas A.
n Company detailed the advances made to
4 agents. and which were carried in the
report to tho State superintendent Of in-
& surance, I, 4 as 81. committing renewal pre-
nums. 1t was brought out as a matter
IN or fact that these advances were loans
4 to agents. but were not carried as such.
n Mr. Buckner testified that advances
were made to agents sometimes as In
l ducemcnts to leave other companies and
# enter teh employ the New York Life.
a situation OF conflict In Buffalo in 1901
be tween the Equitable and the New York
Z: Life was brought out. and In order to got
agents Of the Equitable away from that
L company, liberal advances and liberal
8 contracts were made by the New York
Il Life. ~
Mr.. Buckner testified that these ad-
yances to agents In the Buffalo branch
OF the New York Life In 1902 alone ex-
ceeded 8s4s, 900 the amount really earned
nv these agents. Later Mr. Buckner
acknowledged this was mostly extrava-
can't. and said in 1903 the amount was
cut down by half and BY half the re-
4 gmnining amount In 1909,
5i5 IA copy OF a contract and a confidential
letter to David II. Desbecker, Of Buffalo.
one .of the agents In question, showing
4hn Inducements held out for him to
enter the employ OF the New York Life
was read. The confidential letter showed
that the New York Life Insurance Com
pany agreed to pay Mr.. Desbecker 2
bonus Of $4,000. and to make certain ad-
yances to him. Any return for these
! advances Mr. Buckner said. were carried
as an asset until the end OF the year..
4 and then they We're charged OF TO profit
and loss.
Clash W;.h Mr.. Hughes.
While Mr.. Perkins was on the stand stand
A during the afternoon there was some
what OF a clash between the witness
md Mr.. Hughes, the first OF anything OF
this nature that has occurred since the
committee began Its sessions. II was
when Mr.. Perkins was testifying 70 the
lie is trustee Mr.. Perkins did not want
q 70 appear on the records that the
4 erents paid part OF their salaries into
s thc Il find under contract unless the
s,vorda ,'and bonuses appeared. He said
\ - M. Hughes that he (Mr. Hughos)
was irving to get away from something
and the counsel hotly retorted that ho
was not, and that II Mr.. Perkins would
answer his question much better pro-
Il grcss would DO made with the lhVos''- es'
CATION, !, ,u,,t,ro,
To- f1,o H.
- the Equitable, while on stand, pre-
santed n. statement OF the transfers Of
I, tbn stock of the Equitable at the time
I ~ Sits change OF management and tne
"a directorate. Most OF the transfers MI,
Winthrop was able to explain, but some
no was not, At the time Of these trans.
+ fers Mr.. winthrop was the holder OF
twenty-five shares. lie thought the
actual owner was James II. Hyde, as ne
tnrncf the checks for, the dividends over
Ito Mr.. Hyde,
Loans Will Be Paid,
Mr. Winthrop was again called to the
stand just before adjournment, Mr.
Y Buckner having given away 70 explain
n trustee account brought UP carrier N
!. the day, Mr., Winthrop presence !.
and said the loans would be paid ofl ~
a few days. and the cola teral entered on
the books Of the company. Before MI,
Buckner RETIRED however, he was asked
to produce a statement OF the expenses
of the Paris office, with a record Of the
real estate held there and the business
that comes under that jurisdiction. vi
& Mr.. Buckner had been questioned most
Of the afternoon on the foreign business
L and It's cost TO the home office d
The committee will resume Its ses-
sions Tomorrow. 3$ IN
he Rest