Omaha daily bee. (Omaha [Neb.]) 187?-1922, 1905-12-16
HARTMAN GIVES VERSION
Union Pacific President Tells Of Interviews
with Bqui able Propristors
SAYS RYAN ASKED FOR HIS SUPPORT
He Declined TO Give II Unless
Given share in Deal as an
Evidence of Good
Faith.

NEW YORK, Dec. 15.--Before the legis-
lative insurance investigating committee
another chapter was ADDED today to the
chronicles OF what Thomas f. Ryan called
strenuous" interviews between himself
and T. III. Hartman. Mr.. Ryan gave his
version of the conversations TO the COM
mittee few days ago. when he said that
Mr. Hartman, at the time of the acquisi-
ton of the James II. Hyde stock In the
Equitable Life Assurance society demanded
an equal share and threatened TO use his
political influence against him II he did
not SURRENDER it. Today Mr.. Hartman
recited to the committee his version and
added some interesting statements affecting
his relations with former Governor B b.
odel. jr., chairman of the New York state
Republican committee. and also as to
request to watch legislation Affecting the
Equitable society which he had made upon
Governor Francis w. Higgins and the late
S. Fred Nixon, speaker of the New York
state assembly.
Hartman wanted 10 Cooperate.
In substance Mr.. Hartman testified to-
day that when Mr.. Ryan bought the Hyde
stock. carrying control of the Equitable
society. he asked Mr.. Hartman to coop
crate with him In saving the property, that
MT. HARTMAN dSIctu " w ~ a.
that Mr.. Ryan was acting from pure and
unselhsh motives; that Mr.. Ryan did not
satisfy him as to the purity of his motives
and that Mr.. Hartman notified him that
he would use his influence against him.
The test which Mr.. Hartman said he
applied to determine Mr.. Ryan's purity OF
motive was an offer TO take one-half of the
Hyde stock and to name two trustees or
the society.
Mr. Ryan refused to agree to that MIR.
Hartman testified that Mr.. Ryan should
have assumed that he (Harriman) would
use his political influence against him. lie
was not certain whether he said anything
about legislative action as warning TO
Mr.. Ryan, but declared that he had nothing
to do with starting the present insurance
| investigation
Charles f. Hughes. counsel for the COM
mittee. informed Mr. Hartman that 1t has
been charged that he got his political In
euence through his relation with former
Governor B. r. Odell. jr. Mr.. Hartman
| said:
well. ] should think Mr.. Odell had polit-
ical influence because of his relation with
! me-" Laughter followed the remark.
Later Mr.. Hartman said to the Asso-
ciatcd Press that the remark was meant In
a jocular sense.
No Conference with OdelI.
Mr. Hartman declared TO the committee
! that he did not confer with Mr.. odel about
/ the advisability Of legislative action and
! that lao has not yet taken any action to
thwart Mr. Ryan's plans Last spring. Mr..
Hartman said, when the management of
the Equitable Lire Assurance society was
divided into two factions, the one headed by
President Alexander and the other by James
Fl. Hyde, an attempt was made by ting
(, Alexander faction TO induce the iegislature
20 mutualize the society. Mr.. Hartman
said he asked members of the legislature 70
watch out for any legislation favorable to
the Alexander faction and to report to him
II it appeared. He was. averse to disclos-
ing the names OF the men to whom he made
this request and only consented to do so
after repeated urging on the part OF Senator
William W. Armstrong, chairman Of the
committee. and by Mr.. Hughes, and after
he had been allowed TO consult with his
: counsel. He then stated that It was Gov
ernor Higgins and Speaker Nixon whom he
had asked to watch out for the Alexander
legislation. He added that no such legisla-
ton Was introduced and that he took no
steps through Governor Higgins and Mr..
Nixon 10 prevent It.
Harriman's Testimony In Detail.
e H.. Hartman was called to the stand
when the insurance investigating commit
tee opened its session today
I Mr.. Hartman said he learned of the sale
of the Hyde stock on the date that Mr.
Ryan bought IL. He telephoned to MIR
Ryan and asked him NJ he had bought.
Ryan said the purchase was CONDITIONAL
said MIR. Hartman, "and that he wanted
TO see me and talk with me, and that he
wanted my help. | criticised his plan anC
wanted 10 know what he meant by 1t. Ter
or ffteen minutes later / went TO Mr.
Ryan's office, He .old me ne had decided
to buy the stock and said 1t was time foi
him to make a name for himself. lie sal,
he had decided to buy Hydes stock pro
vided he could get his nominee eleete,
chairman of the board. He said he hat
made good deal Of money ana never has
done anything 10 make a name for himself
questioned his motive. He had told mC
he wanted my help, that was the one mar
in New York whose help he desired"
What kind OF help?" asked Mr.. Hughes
counsel for the investigating committee.
, ITO help him get his nominee elected
, ehairIhan of the board replied Mr.. Har
/ riman. yh
SURPRISED By Ryan.
) Asked upon what ground he had criticise,
Mr.. Ryans plan Mr.. Hartman replied:
We'll. Il was rather staggering TO any
/ body, that Ryan wanted to control tn
) Equitable or should have control Of it,"
Il told him." continued Mr.. Hartman
that II L was sstisfied that he was actin,
from a pure and unselhsn motive ia tn
interest Of the Equitable would help him
.. He told me his plan, ! did not tell hin
then that wanted a share in the Hyd
. stock | assisted hirh 70 get his nomine
elected" ffsA
why did you, II iyog were not sstishe'
as TO the purity Of Bis motives?' aske,
Mr. Hughes. sfa
I II became satisfied that with Mr. Mortol
in charge and If Mr. Ryan were SINGER
a the affairs Of the Equitable would be safe
was convinced that Mr.. Ryan was sin
: cere. did not then think Mr.. Ryan woul
share the stock with me-
Assenblyman Rogers Of the commltte
: here. asked when did you resign q
I director OF the Equitable?"
when the Friok committee made Il
: report This was June 2" -n
The next interview With Ryan was tn
4 Monday following the purchase Of IN
Hyde stock" said the witness ''Firs
: however. ! told Mr., Ryan l had helpe
: elect President Morton, and Ryan said h