New-York tribune., 1905-01-31
Warren ST
PAID AT THE RATE OF 1907
ANOTHER MUNROE LOAN.
Firms Transactions tcith r. y. Dare
6 Br0.-Per Cent Called Usury.

George MunrOe
by Samuel Untermyer. counsel for the receiver and
creditors of Munrcs & Munroe. in the bankruptcy
proceedings before United States Commissioner
Alexander. He testified that from November IL
until The failure December Z, 1904, the firm had
been a borrower of $4,000 demand from the
Produce Exchange house of F. V. Dare & BIO, the
loan being renewed daily and interest being paid
on it at the rate of $50 per cent year exclusive
of 1863 commission. 1t was during the eight days
ended with December Z 1t will be remembered, that
the concern obtained from the National City Bank
through a G. Loomis each morning demand
loan of $50 900. which taken before the close
of the day. F V. Dare. who followed Mr.. Munroe
on the witness stand, gave some interesting details
of his FIRMS transactions with Munroe & Munroe
but said that his ledger contained no Munroe q
Munroe account.
At the beginning of the session Mr. Untermyer
Informed the commissioner that Abraham Gruoer
counsel for F. P. Ward. had told him that Ward
had been in court with the books of F. p. Ward
G. Co. but had returned to Ptttsburg. taking the
books with him. Mr.. Gruber interrupted to say
that Mr.. Ward had been told that there had been
an adjournment. 1t was finally agreed that Mr..
Ward should produce the books in court on Thurs
day
Mr. Munroe was first asked about his firms
transactions with F. P Ward & Co. Mr.. inter
nver wanting TO know why the latter firm was
charged with Montreal and Boston stock at s. 30
q share the market price, when they were really
paying only 81 a share.
"They were 10 have credits when they had taken
the full block" answered the witness. Il left it
open until December to make the credits
In answer TO further questions. Munroe said
that he began dealing with F. V Dare Bro.
Produce Exchange house, two or three years ago
on the dav OF the failure, December I, Dare &
Bro had about 720O0 shares of Montreal and Bos
ton stock on November H. Dare & Bro had made
him demand loan of 1881, against which ne had
deposited 1850 shares of Montreal and Boston He
had given demand note for $1,000 The 1853 dif
~. Io,v,
paid Dare & Bro $40 day for the loan, and SIS
to an intermediary.
That's s45 day. or ssI5 week isn't IT," said
the lawyer.
7 never figured it up that way. replied the
witness.
Mr. Munroe endeavored to say the transaction
was for only day but finally admitted that it
lasted up to the day of his failure having been
renewed each morning. The witness admitted that
on November % he got demand loan of s., 900
from Dare &, Bro for which he paid s15 a day to
Dare & Bro, and s. 30 to the intermediary From
November II to December I. he paid Dare & Bro
in all. 5000 for daily interest on the $4,000 demand
loan. in addition to the 1853 taken originally for
commission.
@nHqw So did you esreS. 70 live and do business
daily loan
tionate prices for loans? A.-No. SUI" 0N'O'-
Mr. Munroe said that he had had a s1e coo loan
from Dare & Bro Marconi transactions and
six other transactions. made through Brewer when
he sold Dare Bro. Montreal and Boston stock
agreeing to buy it back at an advanced figure the
transactions being. he declared really one ,orr, =,
a loan The first of these transactions took place
on September 70. He sold Dare g. Bro 10
OOo shares of Montreal and Boston FOR N
cents share. agreeing to buy it back at 80 cents
share and obtained for the stock $4ss7 the ,Iirrer
ence being the commission for the loan When ba
bought the stock back In thirty days at so cents a
share Dare & Bro. made So 121a on each hundred
cha naFa e pro eth
these transactions.
share eontracts and Mr. Dare qp refuse6 rneS9
didn't he Al understand
F. Y. Dare then sworn He said that he had
his ledger with him. The firm had no account on
the book with Munroe. & Munroe. The witness
read from his book of 9 demand loan made hv Mum
roe & Monroe 1850 shares OF Montreal and Bo7
ton stock He produced the $4,000 checx given IN
Munroe K MunrOe. which marked in evidence
He had not received any check for commission
AS to the payment of interest. the witness said
that the firm got daily interest OF $50 and some
times $50 for three days. He did not know OF anv
intermediary. nor that W. s Hanford. in whose
name this demand note kept on the books in
Joint account. got the intermediary money On the
5000 loan the firm got a commission for nine
DAYS interest equal six months Interest at per
cent.
sold hr' Dare told of the loans made bought and
To e M1Dpo Ip shares 81 at 80 cents and sold them back
made $27s in addition to the interest.
9. go has, Is ABOUT 5000 profit on loan Of
SS'eVq' OUTSIDE OF the cent interest ISN'T II
Al guess those igures are correct
fo2 9AnI usHr1 you don dent think that mere coyec
do IT, - ""''' ""4iui
Q.-What about these Two demand ro,as U,ba,
YOU ger $50 and Slo day Is that us;Jrv" A -Noi
on demand loan. | can charge anythine I ca
get on demand loan. I've loaned MONEY 10 Sroet
Exchange houses I got 10 per rsnt ~, ~ , 5I,A Io,A
QmA on .1. ndn think u funny that you were AIy-
ing ana selling stock at 90 cents that had m rls
value OF 81 share? A.-No ~ "eu 'nStNo
A.-No. 'V"" UT usuiS
Q.Decemher s, the day after this ,ou,,r. ~,
bought 10000 shares of W. and n from W.. "1 W
Munroe at IN cents and sold il bacL sn- dunroe q
notice the date. r. ulah
Q.-iiow many shares of the NJ and n o,,, % -.
12O00 you got have you now? ,A-ASa,,' 'f ons tEe
shares We sold part of H. 'NPOht s"p
0-Now tell NE how and when vo,, .6la :. 4,
what price you get for theme There vspa a - an1 40
shares YOU got for 90 cents and you sold To- olpy
deal over a dollar We want that money S529 SssP1
you surrender TO the receiver all YOU got over th
50 cents you were entitled to? Al win not Ne Ne
II I can help II. ~ 1Not
An adjournment was taken at this point f,,v,r
Thursday. ~