The sun., 1905-12-13
Says That Hartman Wanted
Half the Stock Of the
Equitable.
THREAT OF LEGISLATION.
Demand Also for the Right to
Name Two Extra Trustees.

Buyer of the Hyde stock Acts on Jerome's
Advice and Tells OF His Interviews
Win Hartman Root and Crayath
Present at One Talked OF Legislative
Action" but Didn't Make His Threat
More Definite President Dryden OF
the Prudential Says That His Com
pany Is Largely Controlled by the
Fidelity Trust Company .tdmits
Paying Campaign Contributions and
RetaIners TO Judge Andy Hamilton.
I Thomas F. Ryan, testfying before the
Armstrong insurance committee yesterday.
accused Edward II Hartman of having at
tempted to sandbag him into giving up half
of his holdings in the Equitable society.
threat that he would use his financial
and political influence" against Mr. Ryan
was the club used by Hartman. These
threats, Mr.. Ryan testified were uttered
in the presencs of two of his counsel Elihu
Root and Paul D. Cravath.
Hartman demanded not only half OF
the Equitable stock but also the right to
name two trustees of the Equitable stock
to Mr.. Ryan's three.
Senator John F. Dryden, president of
the Prudential Life Insurance Company OF
New Jersey, also was witness yesterday.
The details of the Prudentials relations
with its subsidiary corporations in New
Jersey we're brought out, and Senator
Dryden admitted that his company con-
tributed s26 600 to the Republican national
committee in the last three campaigns
Thomas I. Ryan's Testimony.
Mr.. Ryan was the first witness called at
the hearing. Near him sat his counsel.
Paul D. Cravath Judge Lovatt, Mr.. Harri-
mans lawyer, also was present.
MIR. Ryan" said Mr.. Hughes, at the
hearing on Friday you testified that Mr..
f. H. Hartman desired to share the pur-
chase of the Equitable stock with you, and
that you refused. The question was then
asked What did Mr.. Hartman say to you
in connection with the matterY That
question l now repeat.
"Mr. Chairman" replied Mr. Ryan, Il
trust the committee will understand rly
motive in not answering the question when
| was on the stand be$Sre. did not wish
the committee to understand | meant any
dsrespect. | wish 70 p.eserre harmony.
| did not wish to answer the question un,
| was satisfied was Obliged to answer it"
81 think we understand that, Mr.. Ryan
said Chairman Armstrong.
The District Attor:ey." continued the
witness, has determined that shall answer
the question, and shall give my best recol-
lection of the conversations.
Yes; that is all we desire, replied Chair
man Armstrong.
The question was read again and Mr..
Hughes added that he would I've glad if Mr..
Ryan would state fully what was said and
done at the meetings bet him and Mr..
Hartman.
Immediately after my purchase of the
EQuitabes stock. Mr.. Hartman" said IL
witness, called upon me and had CON
versation. We had several conversations
during the few days following the purchase
One Of these conversations was in the pres
ence of my counsel, Mr.. Root and Mr. Cra-
vath, Some of the conversations were over
the telephone. Mr.. Hartman as near as
can remember said that as he had devoted
a large amount of time and work to the
Equitable situation should not have come
into the situation without consulting him
That is, | had bought Mr. Hyde's stock;
and as | had bought Mr.. Hyde's stock be
demanded / should share-let him share
in the purchase and have an equal voice
in the management. This declined.
HARTMAN FIXES HIS PRICE,
He also objected to the trustees and
having the stock uusteed He finally
said if | would allow him TO share in the
purchase and in the management and
would allow him to name two trustees,
with Mr.. Cleveland and Judge O'Brien
and Mr.. Westinghouse, that I've would
assent to my plan He also said that he
did not think | could carry out my plans
without his aid. | said that | had deter
mined in the interests Of the policyholders
of the Equitable and in the public good to
divest myself of all control of the Equitable;
that while | desired very much the CO.
operation of Mr. Hartman and all other
large financial interests, the task doubt
less would be a hard one and / regretted
very much to have his opposition, but
that | could not give up my intention to
trustee that stock as | had made up my
mind to do as soon as purchased it, and
that whether | had his opposition or not
! was going to carry out that plan.
Mr.. Ryan said that it was on Friday
night June g. or early the next morning
that the agreement in regard to the pur-
chase was reached with Mr.. Hyde hut
that no papers had been signed He
thought that he had his first conversation
with Mr., Hartman in regard to the stock
on this same Friday. He didn't tell Mr..
Hartman though that he had bought
the stock.
The witness said that he believed that
Mr.. Hartman at that time suspected that
he was in the Equitable situation in some
way or other His conversation with Harr-
man on that day was very brief, The inter-
view took place in Mr.. Ryan's office, and
the talk between them about Equitable
affairs was of general nature.
The next time Mr., Ryan saw Hartman
was on the following Monday or Tuesday,
That meeting also took place in Mr.. Ryan's
Office. Mr.. RYAN couldn't saw exactly