New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1905-05-20
REPLIES TO JAMES J. HILL.
MR.. CLEMENTS Il WITNESS.
Says Mr. RockefelIer's Fortune Vas
Built UD bg Rebates.

Washington May 19-Both sides Of the rate
| question were represented at the session of
the Senate Committee on Interstate Commerce
| to-day. Judson c.. Clements, member of the
Interstate Commerce Commission, was the prin-
cipal witness He told of the difficulties the
Commission encountered and defended it against
attacks replying particularly to the criticisms
made by James ]. Hill. Satisfaction with pres
ent conditions was expressed by Frederick L.
Lyster. of Fredonia. Kan. nnseed oil manu-
facturer: E. T KOCH Of Cedar Rapids, Ia.
representing packing houses; Charles II. Brown.
of Mobile Ala representing bagging and cot
ton tie interests: Archibald McGregor, OF SPRING
field Mo- a wholesale hardware dealer; william
s. Pulling. of Philadelphia. representing steel and
iron interests; Robert w. Leslie, of Phlladei-
phia a manufacturer of Portland cement;
Charles A. Painter. of Pittsburg. manufacturer
of iron and steel and cotton ties; F. G. Bush, OF
the Alabama Coal and Iron Company and Rob
ert Gates, immigration and Industrial Agent
of the Louisville and Nashville Railroad.
Commissioner Clements spoke sarcastically of
the assertion that only traffic men had the
knowledge necessary TO make rates. and de-
cared that in the hearings effort had been
made to turn the investigation into criticism OF
the Commission. He said it was not intended
by the proposed legislation to confer general
rate making power on the Commission, and in
cared that the decision in the maximum rate
case. which held that the power attempted to
be exercised would give authority to fix all
rates. went too far. The Commission he said,
would deal with complaints they were made.
Senator Kean asked if it did not take year
to decide certain
4 suppose" retorted the Commissioner, that
the question is to indicate that the Commission
dilatory."
Mr.. Clements then explained that the delay
due to the immense amount of testimony
taken and to pressure of other business. He
told of the issue of S50OO0.OO0 stock by the
Atlantic Coast Line to buy a controlling interest
In the Louisville and Nashville. and insisted
that this issue should be considered in deter
mining what was reasonable rate This adj
ditional stock, he added. was part of the fixed
charges Of the Atlantic Coast Line and borne
by the revenues of the road. He spoke of the
relations of the Pennsylvania Railroad with the
Baltimore and Ohio. the Chesapeake and Ohio
and the Norfolk and Western roads, and said
that several men held drectorships in all of
them, adding that this indicated little proba-
bility of reduction OF rates by competitors under
these conditions.
Commissioner Clements in referring to state
nents of Professor Meyer, Of the University of
Chicago, whom he called "a doCtrinaire,' sug
gested that there AN aristocracy of wealth
which could hire men to advocate the theory of
vested rights against the rights of individuals"
and asserted that the patron saint Of the in
Stltutlcn 10 Wnlcn PROFESSOR Meyer belonged
had colossal fortune built up by rebates ena-
bling him to obtain the property Of competitors
He said that in the press and the colleges were
found the advocates of the superiority of vest
ed rights
Referring TO James J. Hls criticism Of the
Commission for not correcting unjust and extor-
tiOnate terminal charges at New-Y York. Mr.
Clements said that the condition described by
Mr.. Hill did not exist. The only time the Com
mission had any dealings with Mr. Hill was in
the Investigation of the Northern Securities
case, which finally ended with the decision of
the Supreme Court that Mr.. Hill and his asso-
ciates were engaged in conspiracy in restraint
Of trade. The alleged terminal charge of which
Mr. Hill complained part of the through
rate for transportation. He referred to Mr. Hills
rash utterances IN disparagem of the Com
mission" and in connection with the Supreme
Court decision in the Northern Securities cas-
said that, whatever had been said about the
Commission, it never had been restrained from
committing a crime" Regarding the assertion
OF Mr.. Hill about action Of the Commission
preventing him from shipping -four to the
Orient Mr.. Clements declared that the Commits
sion did no more than the law required which
was notification to all roads that the law re-
qured export as well domestic tariffs to be
filed with the Commission This was done after
consulting the carriers and an effort to adjust
the matter, in which time the Commission had
not enforced the law, although Mr.. Hill had told
the committee that the Commission had created
a condition which stopped his exports OF -four