The news & observer. [volume] (Raleigh, N.C.) 1894-current, 1905-09-29
PERKINS REFUSES
BOOKS DEMANDED
But Will Have to Pro-
duce Them.
A JUGGLE WITH NAM ES
Committing Renewal Premiums" Be-
fore the State Superintendent Of IN
surance Were in the Eyes of Vice.
President Buckner of the New
York Life Loans to Agents.
(By the Associated Press.)

New York, Sept. 2S.-Several sem
sational incidents developed at the
session of the Legislative Committee
on Life Insurance Investigation today.
The first was when George w. Per-
kns, vice president of the New York |
Life Insurance Company and member
of the firm of j. p. Morgan & Com
pany. objected to probing the books
of his firm showing a certain transac-
ton of that firm with the New York
. Life. Mr.. Perkins offered to present |
n copy of the entry in question from
the books. but Mr.. Hughes demanded
the books after several refuSalS on
the part of Mr.. Perkins. The books
will be produced later.
In the course of his testimony Mr.. t
Perkins, when asked concerning the
difference in the statement of profits
from securities in the Massachusetts
report OF the company and of net
profits from securities in the New
York report said:
when we get national supervision
we won't have these conflicts between
the different States
Mr.. Perkins testified to number /
of transactions in which he represent |
ed Morgan & Company as seller and |
the New York Life Insurance Company |
as purchaser.
Another Sensation.
Another sensation was sprung later
nthe day when Vice-President Thorn |
as A Buckner. of the New York Life
Insurance Company detailed the ad- |
VanceS made to agents and which |
We're carried in the report to the State
Superintendent of Insurance. as 'com-
mutng renewal premiums"
o,,t n tor of
fact that these advances were loans
to agents but were not carried as such.
Mr. Buckner testified that advances
We're made to agetnS sometimes as
inducements to leave other companies
and enter the employ of the New York
Life. A situation of conflict in Buff
falo i'm 1901 between the Equitable
and the New York Life was brought
out, and in order to get agents of the
Equitable away from that company,
liberal advances and liberal contracts
were made by the New York Life.
Mr.. Buckner testified that these ad-
vances to agents In the Buffalo branch
o. the New York Life in 1902 alone
exceeded by 5000 the amount really
earned by those agents. Later Mr.
Buckner acknowledged this was most
ly extravagant and said in 1908 the
amount was cut down by half and by
hall the remaining amount in 1902.
A copy of contract and a conf
dentaI letter to David II. Desbecker.
of Buffalo, one of the agents in ques-
ton, showing the inducements he'd
out for him to entGr the employ of the
y New York Life was read. The conf
Dental letter showed that the New
York Life Insurance Company agreed
to pay Mr.. Desbecker bonus of Sd
600 and to make certain advances to
him. Any returns for these advances
ID "a :
an asset until the end of the year
and then they were charged off to
profit and loss.
Clash With a Witness.
While Mr. Perkins was on the
stand during the afternoon there
was somewhat of Il clash between
the witness and Mr.. Hughes, the first
of anything of this nature that has
occurred since the committee pegah
its sessins 1t was when Mr.. Perkins
was testifying [ the moneys in the
"Nylic" fund of which he is trustee.
Mr.. Perkins did not want it to appear
on the records that the agents paiu
part of their salaries into the fund
under contract. unless the words,
and bonuees." appeared. He said to
Mr. Hughes that he (Mr. HugheS)
was trying to get away from someth-
ing and the counsel hotly retorted
that he was not and that if Mr.. Per-
klns would ansyer his question mucn
better progress would be made with
the investigation.
Earlier in the day Henry r. Win
throp. of the Equitable, while on the
stand, presented a statement of the
transfers of the stock of the EQuita-
BILE at the time of its change of man
agement and the directorate Most
of the transfers Mr.. Winthrop was
able to explain, but somehow he was
not.
At the time of these transfers Mr..
Winthrop was the holder of twenty
five shares. He thought the actual
owner was James H. Hyde. as no
turned the checks for the dividends
over to Mr. Hyde.
Mr. Winthrop was again called to
the stand just before adjournment.
Mr.. Buckner having given away to
explain q trustee account brought up
earlier in the day. Mr.. Winthrop pre-
sented a typewriter statement of the
account and said the loans would be
paid off in a few days and the col
lateral entered on the books of the
company Before Mr.. Buckner retir-
ed however he was asked to pro-
duce a statement of the expenses Of
the Paris office. with a record of the
real estate held there and the bust
ness that comes under that jurisdio-
tion Mr.. Buckner had been oueS-