New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1905-09-16

undoubtedly said 10 the finance committee. We . VII
furnish the money and carry it out. bond Interest
just give that as an illustration OF a principe
Mr.. Hughes here asked:
Q-Now let us take the transaction NOT SO IN "ih
M R enasn TO the be nature Of the transaction
itself In the frst place In tn's od ao bonds You
do that with the idea of having the greater par
Of them resod? Al beg your PARDON ho' Always
o. ann talking OF the Erie convertibles? A
QYo sas marketed sTse 10 them as soon you could
A-No. sir beg your pardon we itb ' nIr
handsome profit on those bonds, and we take It as
part of our duty to sell Just as much as TO ne oes
sarily. We might have kept them for twenty
o-Yes. YOU were keeping them for joint &C
S Sonnt? A,No sir until our juagment was con-
s6d took them and when they were sold tneg
the privilege to Withdraw or purchase if we wish to-
Q-Whatever the fact was, You bought for joint
account? A.-And withdrew for joint account for
o-withdrew. what was left for your own
count count You didn't WITHDRAW what yoU didn't want
by that hat that We commanded the situation; NOBODY
lust wanted to say that
nrot IN n you in this way expect to make oe,
which YOU are willing TO divide with somebody else?
ferent. ' '''s case may 0e e''" one Is '''
account. and before you withdraw, they kept
for sale with an option to you to withdraw when
eeet 10 40 SCI Arhet is about IT, hes sir
on the sale for Joint account are shared equally
ana the other party to the joint account? A-Not
o.-Well. were they in the case Of Erie convert
bleE Al presume they were, but sometimes II Is
make.
SALE OF BONDS TO HIMSELF.
An example of the relationship between Mr..
Perkins in the insurance company and in the
banking house was given in long discussion
about the SS00.0oO in the navigation syndicate.
which Mr.. Perkins sold off the books of the
New-York Life on December 81 1902, and
bought back on January .. the purchaser and
subsequent seller being himself as a member
Of the firm of ]. P. Morgan x Co. on this point
there was much discussion, after which Assem-
blyman Rogers said:
was going to ask one more question. That
is. whether there has been any other occasion
on the purchase or sale--I treat this transaction
as seeming purchase and sale-whether there
had been any other in which you had both acted
for j. P. Morgan & Co and the New-York Life?
Mr.. Perkins replied: Z recall no such other
transaction"
Mr.. Hughes then asked:
s 96f 1 Of 5hs
Then in effect you acted alone for ]. P. Nor
York Life? wei = There eS was S' no transac-
ton in the sense that there could have been any
this matter myself. for the best interests of the
J. Mosa tbeS S?sa
the syndicate people; they were the ones from
to take loss of 100000 and in this sense I did
Taesa Gf RRen yo9 bought back those
bonds did you have any conversation ton with any
back? Al don't recollect; I don't know.
Odd any one know of this transaction? Al
presume some in the Office did 1t passed
through the office. Our check of J. P. Morgan
went to the New-York Life.
Mr.. Armstrong then took up the examination;
Odd you carry certificate for this stock from
the Morgan FI co.? At never make any
of their deliveries, although have authority under
have been chairman. Mr.. Randolph has signed our
oEWas the stock certificate actually delivered
on December 81? Al asked during recess about
Q.-It was actually delivered? A.-You'd better ask
the custodian Of the securities, perhaps
order OF by Mr.. Randolph's order. just probably in
the order Of business. The point is, it was de-
o.NWhen you determined to make this transac-
committee as vice-president? Ayes, sir.
to J. P Morgan? Al did the initial work; yes
sir: was responsible for that transaction.
stock certificate carry over the draft? Al really
d9nf kn4 9e New i ERt k"0" got the
DID YOU then direct J. P: Morgan 8 Co. to
Of the sFf5 Ge % graft
hvered to J. P. Morgan & Co for $4,000 on the
Q-Yes. well. now. when in that relation did
the line of defnarcation come between Mr. PERKINS
as an officer of the New-YorlS Life and M, Perkins
a member of j. P. Morgan & Co Just what point
In that transaction? Al don't know that quite
get your point
QUESTION OF WHICH CAPACITY.
Dwell as the New York Life and you deter
mined to sell the ceruhcateS or STOCK TO MI MOI
gan's company. and gave directions to deliver the
certificate direct to Morgan & Co. now, Mr.. Per
Morgan & Co. to draw draft TO the New-York
Life for SsOOO00, and deliver it to the messenger
who brings that certificate TO the office. Now that
all might have been done while you had been
sitting desk in five munites, and when in that
you cease acting partner of Morgan. and
where was the line OF demarcation in the trans
A.-The whole transaction was made for
the benefit, the transaction shows, of the New
York Life Insurance Comnany 1t was done by
people If this had been some other firm, | would
have gone the same way to some other firm. | dId
Morgan Co, because it was clearly in my judg-
ment the to do.
in your Judgment. were you acting for the New
York Life? An the time. ,,-e
Q.-And when you acting for J. +. Morgan 4
Co? At depends what the case is.
Q.-Were you acting ali the time for the New
AIR. Chairman know no division OF time when
transaction comes to me WheIher TO }; r. Nor
Corporation whoever it may be. take up that
question and I dispose Of it as ] see my duty to
&c oredit bnt Know TnvseIf have done right
O-Whether concurrent acts separate ones?
A.-That doesn't enter my mind, sir do what
think is right myself.
is at the present moment involved? Any loyalty
being where think my duty lies
Assemb1yman Rogers then said
o.-The Senator is thinking of the Bible; which