The Montgomery advertiser., 1905-05-14
FAMED SAW IS PUZZLE
AUTHORSHIP OF NOTED SAYING
 STILL IS DEBATED.
Baruum Also is Credited--William E. Curtis Writes of Controversy That Continues to stir
 Up Interest.
William E. Curtis's Washington Special ta Ghicn ern Rennrd- Herald.

William E. CurtisS Washington Speclal
 to Chicago Record-Herald.
 The inquiry made several weeks ago whether anybody knew the time and place that President Lincoln uttered the famous epigram so often attributed to him-"It is true that you can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time; but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time"-has brought out some interesting information.
 Miss Helen Nicolay, daughter of the late John G. Nicolay, President Lin coins private secretary and biographer, says that her father, when questioned, as he was frequently, told all inquirers that he did not believe MT. Lincoln was the author of the epigram-at least, that he never heard it quoted or attributed to him while he was alive. MT. Nicolay was convinced that P. T. Barnum was the author.
 A. R. Spofford of the Library of Con- gress, who is the highest authority on all such subjects, says: '"The passage quoted about 'fooling the people is not found in any of the authentic writings of Abraham Lincoln, and his biogra- phers believe 1t to be spurious"
 James T. Smith, who has held po- sition in one of the executive depart ments in Washington ever since the CIVIL war, says lHdC lIiC iaIC uSSASN Cartier of the Supreme Court of the District of Columbia told him that MT Lincoln made the remark at the White House to a delegation of citizens from Ohio, who were being introduced by him (Cartter )when he was member of Congress in the early days Of the war The subject of the conversation was the arguments used by the advo- cates of peace in the North in favor oi stopping the war.
 E. F. Swetting of Algoma, Iowa says: 'The remark appears on page 1S4 of a book entitled Lincoln's Yarns and Stories,' published by Henry Nei in 1901. In a conversation with g caller at the White House MT. Lincolr Is alleged to have said: If you once forfeit the confidence of your fellow citizens you can never regain their re. spect and esteem. It Is true that you can fool all of the people, etc."
 Judge George W. Burnell of Osh. kosh, Wis, calls attention to an ad- dress delivered before the Wisconsin Commandery of the Loyal Legion 1T 1896 by Colonel E. A. Calkins, veteran Chicago editor, which may be found ir Vol III, page 10, of War Papers, Wisconsin Com, O. L. l.. It is entitled "Humor of Abraham Lincoln," and 1T 1t Colonel Calkins states that Lincoln was not the author of the famous phrase, but that it appears in one of P T. Barnum's speeches.
 There are several volumes contain ing autobiographies, speeches, maxims and other acts and utterances of MT Barnum, but the phrase in question does not appear in any of them. There are many other epigrams, maxims and bits of philosophy developed from his extraordinary experiences and keen knowledge of human nature. MT. Barnum was fond of making senten- tious remarks, and it Is singular that he did not include that epigram among the rest of his sayings, if he was really its author. Indeed, the fact that it does not appear in any of his books is convincing evidence against the theory of Colonel Calkins.
 The correspondent of The Toledo Blade at Bellevue, O., quotes T. H. Hirst of that city as saying that he heard Mr. Lincoln use the words, You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time," in a speech. MT. Hirst says:
 Tn 1858 I was a resident at Atlanta, IJl, twenty miles south of Blooming ton. MT. Lincoln spoke in Harvey Tur- ner's Grove at Atlanta on July 4, 1858, and used the words referred to the same day.
 sylvester Strong, now buried in At lanta, Ill, gave Lincoln a cane which he (Strong) had cut at the Tippecanoe battle ground. The cane contained enough knots to spell Lincoln's name. In each knot was inserted a silver let ter The cane was sold several months ago for $2SO, I think. Sylvester Strong of Atlanta was Lincoln's most intimate friend The same day Lincoln gave me a 5O-cent piece, coined in 1858, which l still have in my possession"
 Richard P. Morgan, a well-known civil engineer of Dwight, H., whose reputation Is familiar to many public men throughout the country. says that he also heard MT. Lincoln use the same expression in a speech and confirms the recollection of Judge Lawrence Weldon of the Court of Claims, that he used it not only once, but frequently in his political addresses. MT. Morgan gives me some interesting "reminiscences of his relations with MT. Lincoln, with whom he became acquainted in Bloom ing gton in 1853, when he was division engineer building the Chicago and AL ton Railroad. Bloomington was then