The news & observer. [volume] (Raleigh, N.C.) 1894-current, 1905-06-15

plaintiff would admit that he had said
he acted without malice.
Il admit nothing but the truth. ;"
said Mr. Watson.
Il can't do anything with man
who is better than George Washing
ton" said the Governor. HE said he
couldn't tell lie; Mr.. Watson saws he
can't even admit one!"
IT finally developer that the uues-
ton had been asked Mr. Ballard by
the defense and ruled out on the OBJ
lection of plaintiff.
The Court sustained the objection.
The witness. continuing, said that
the first time he knew the
speech had been made was On
Sunday morning. 1t was not true as
charged that he had furnished names
evidence He had heard no evidence
that there had been unchristian Cos
sip in his store. The witness told of
his first interview with Judge Clark
meeting him on a slow train going TO
Durham. over objection, the witness
stated that Judge Clark asked him If
he knew DR.. Kilgo's reputation in
South Carolina as to being a manipu-
lator and wire-puller. He told him
that owing to his delicate relations
with the Conferences he preferred not
told Judge Clark, however, that DR.
Kilgo's reputation in South Carolina
was that he manipulated, that he un-
dermined others to get place for him
self: that he controlled preachers ap-
pointments, and appointments of col
lege professors. etc. Over objection
plaintiff stated that he had heard
these reports in Blacksburg, Columbia
and other places in South Carolina.
Witness stated that he left at the close
Of the first mornings session of the
board of trustees.
Witness was asked to state whether
the defendant at the time of the state
ment of DR.. Kilgo had the opportunity
to know that the statements were un-
true.
The defendants objected on the
ground that the question asked not
for facts but for the conclusion of the
witness, the point being argued by
Judge Graham and by Judge Winston,
Judge Graham holding the question
to be competent as showing malice by
facts within the knowledge of the
plaintiff. he also attacking the express
sion Of the Supreme Court to the con-
trary as dictum and an attempted
finding of fact.
After Judge Moore had ruled with
the defendant Judge Graham again
went on to argue the point saying
that DR. Kilgo had gone on to bring
in extraneous matter where there was
no chance of reply. etc, but the
Judge again ruled out the question
and plaintiff excepted.
The witness. continuing, stated that
his store was situated on Main Street
in Durham, and, over objection, stated
that some of his clerks were ladies.
ln;1ao,,, rastfGn-
Mr.. L. w Grissom was called and
stated that he was three years i'm Mr..
Gattis's Book Store as a clerk; that he
conducted himself as a Christian gem
tleman: that there was no unchristian
gossip in the store. that Mr.. Gattis's
conversation was always pure and
chaste; that nothing indecent occurred
during his connection with the store.
On cross examination, the witness
stated that Mr.. Gattis talked a great
deal but did not speak disparaging1y
of preacheNs: that he did not speak
unkindly of preachers. Witness was
asked If he did not say to Mr.. Bishop
that there was a great deal of gossip
in the store and that it was of such a
character as would cause a sensation
II .o,d eth
Witness stated that he could re-
member no such conversation, but
would not further deny it. Asked as
to a definition of unchristian gossip,
witness stated that he thought it
would be unchristian for one preach
er to talk Of another when what he
said was not true. Being pressed, he
stated that he would consider promis-
cuous talk unchristian gossip even if
true.
ON redirect the Bishop converse
ton was taken up and witness said that
he never heard any unchristian CON
versation; if he had, he had forgot
ten l..
on further cross examination, wit
ness stated that he was in the store
during the years 1891, 80, '93 or
whereabouts while Mr. Bishop was in
Durham.
Rev. Gtatis on Cross Examination.
On the converting of court at three
O'Clock counsel for the defense,
through Judge Winston. entered upon
the eross-eXamination of the plaintiff
Gattis.
The first point taken up was the tes-
timony of Mr.. Grisson as to his con-
versation with Mr.. Bishop. He went
to Mr.. Bishop and spoke to him about
the matter Was a witness at the
Trinity investigation and was cross
examined by Dr. Ki1go.
In reply to a question as to whether
he had stated before the board Of
trustees that he did not remember
informing Judge Clark as to his South
Carolina reputation: that he said that
he was not able to remember single
sentence; the witness said that
ii was true that he had said
this morning that he remembered
the conversation with Judge Clark. IT
had been called to his mind by the
trials. AS TO his statement on the in
vestgation that he refused to give
names of others with whom he had
talked. he admitted having declined,
also admitted refusing to state whether
parties with whom he had talked were
connected with the trustees; also that
he had not talked when he could help
it; that he had stated that he had
tried to avoid talking about him: that
he had stated that he did not consider
DR.. Kilgo of sufficient Importance to
talk about him all the time; he had de-
clined to say whether he had told
these things to other people; had de-
clined to testify as to Judge Clark's
visit and had responded because !
don't think you have any right to ask
those questions" Witness admitted
the truth of DIR. Kilgo's statement that