New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1905-09-22

know anything about it until it came up mere.
was 5stWeeT Was our no Se 9e snd Morsan Co
have never known Il untl y you 6o1 me gave the
voucher for that check? Alt does not appear
QHsome one must have-that would not be made
by the New-York Life simply because AUS so1 s 1.is
oIWhat authorization was there for that pay
ment? Al will get that If you wish, Mr. Hughes.
ANOTHER YEAR END DEAL"
Mr.. Hughes then took up another transaction
between ]. p Morgan & Co. and the New-York
Life. He continued:
find in 1902 in the list OF purchases ny the New
York Life Insurance Company. the following
Dseember 81 Chicago g;lqstsSsn and 9niney
SS yfbnqoP p S N6SIhern Pacific P L. Is
s. 5GoOoo 1O2, cost $1.5S9ooo, vendor. J. P Morgan
DECEMBER 81 1902 Cincinnati gleyssn9 GO gR ss S
vendor. J. p Morgan & Co.
Q-Do you recall those transactions? Al viii
refer to my memorandum | have here, and viii will
see how they-now, may ask-that was nineteen
DO You recall anything about that? A.-No;
would like to look those up Mr. Hughes .,u,-.
this sale to J. P, Morgan & Co? Do you find any
thing referring TO this. Mr. Perkins? Mr. KINGS
Q.-see if You have any record whatever of the
the purchase by J. P. Morgan & Co on December
Q.-Those securities went into your annual report
as securities held by you on December 81, 1902? A
Q.-Now, on February Is 1908. find this: Chi
2 6 BaTnston and 9uncy Illinois Diy Wis ion a
back TO j. P. Morgan & Co at the same price at
mG@ SIR the e ch Eoa e& Burngon
and Quincy bonds also seem to be held about the
Q-Yes. those are the ones refer to The point
these on December 81 1902, and sold them back to
J T: Morgan s Co. at the same price, Februarry,
IS, 1903? Al haven't any data on that. would
be glad to look that
Q-You haven't any data on that? A.-No, sir
than to show in your list of securities Of December
81. 1872? Al really don't know. I will look it
Q-Now, I find in the list of collateral loans that
sPy f 5u to Io6n Heg gem Has$ 6 S and the
interest is stated 10 be IL cent 1t would ap-
1892. TO date on demand at IL per cent interest;
think thai 5Tobbiy comes nder left over bnsi
ness, as you stated this morning from Friday,
the Hartman and Hegeman loans.
Q-Confne yourself TO Hegeman A.-May I
Q.-Gnterruptingl No: 1 would rather keep these
Of 5000 Which was ~q part of the $4,000 that we
showed on December 81, 1904. and the Hegeman loan
a. $1,000 Minneag0lis Street RaiIwsy cg }iSb,
and Power 6s-all bonds-ieaving a margin OF ABOUT
my point is. in the first place. that that loan
was loan of January 2 1902, wasn't it? A.-Aes'
o3Carried since nee that time? A.-weu, the rate
Of here r per on bss bse T f Ff ds
Q-You have given me here statement of col;
hae m5Ged G5 fs IN 'S that
an na oia to Of 1882 T. at IL p cent? on
demand, which was paid December 80, 1901. On
of $1,000 at IL per cent interest, payable on de
mand. That. 1 understand is the loan of $4,000
Decenber 81 1e59? AmThe same amount. AS to
the securities I know what the securities are now
QEYour list Of collateral loans shows that open
g. - 49, has mt ha
to date? A.-This collateral is up to date. is it?
Vel loud Hat IKE 50 6e t bfou up before the
finance committed? Alt might and might not
treasurer has right to make loans with proper
gn-cail loans.wth proper margin gin on bonds; bA
treasurer undoubtedly made it. but / remember of
o,@Weli we have the minutes here. / would like
to have whatever minutes there are on that Hese
your company who knew q the 4;n, making Of me
R l2a n9o Randoph Would Know We '''9
Tsef RaTsy ne an6 de S bonus City
Q--Do you know what those are worth? A-No'
on 6 what s5s q tfO5e securities were worth
PURCHASES FROM ]. P. MORGAN & CO.
Mr.. Hughes then passed to the consideration
Of Morgan transactions He said:
IN s TRGh made g5B YOU Eeud
from our annual statements, to try and show that
gI,sP Morgan & Co have sold TO the Hew-Y a,o1
9696do worth Of securities, i IS not true v-'
that this purported 10 show that sis2ooo had
been invested in securities which had been brought
sTa,Triy that they had sold these to the New-York
,omThey may have REACHED the New-YorkZ Life
through other sources What wanted to ask you
own these securities? Al would have to
Q-Are those securities which have been put on
f the m ba9 ba by o5 N I ne
Morgan u Co? Al have been member of that
that OF all the securities. aggregatng about 81 400
TS sgs+ that IT, j. p Morgan Co have put the
huRdFed reds and hundreds of millions more in the
COMPANY have large amount Of tbe ke any other
- l asked you to give statement # you would
Morgan & Co. Ayes. sir. 1 o.
vQ-Have you detailed statement there7 A
g I Is this a complete statement? Al think
mat IS a complete statement OF all transactions
Mr.. PERKINS, PROFITS TURNED BACK
Q;.,This is q statement of purchases made Of J
ber Of FIAT firm o s h, iF Perkns became mem
value Of quantities still held market V plSe cost
Der 20 1906 of bonds still he'd If sbo
IN par value of $50 2s6075 il shows total in cost
sod Of the thereof thas is q thoso
SIS as Of the e cost fV Value Of Bonds Of h R RrGe
ESQ 81 the market value, September 20 1906 Of the
a net total realized bonds sold cost Of sane,
F bo0g the 5a profit d of ~ q %, mare value
s7S4664 90. 1 put that on the record Now. have
you also produced the statement OF YOUR own
profits that you have covered over to the New
York Life Insurance Company? A.-Yes, sir
Q.-Proht from your connection with the firm
OF J. + Morgan & Co on transa ctions between that
firm and the insurance company? Al have that
here.
Mr.. Perkins testified that he had returned TO the
New-York Life Insurance Company So 400 Al since
he became a member Of the firm Of J. p Morgan
& Co, which amount he said might have been
considered as profit resulting from his dual con-
nection.