The Birmingham age-herald., 1905-12-16
Tells Something of His R,|a- tons With Former Governor
 Ods|| and Late I. Nixon
WITNESS CLAIMS THAT
 HE WAS TESTING RYAN
Offered to Buy Half of Equitable Stock in Order to See If the Pur- chaser Was
 Sincere.

New York, December 15.-Before the legislative insurance investigation com mittee another chapter was added today to the chronicles of what Thomas F. Ryan called strenuous interviews between him self and E. H. Hartman" MT. Ryan gave his version of the conversations to the committee a few days ago, when he said that MT. Hartman at the time of the acquisition of the James H. Hyde stock in the Equitable Life Assurance society, de- manded an equal share, and threatened to use his political influence against him if he did not surrender it. Today MT. Har- riman rected to the committee his yer sion, and added some interesting state ments affecting his relations with former Gov. B. B. Odell, Jr., chairman of the New York state republican committee, and also as to a request to watch legis- lation affecting the Equitable society which he had made on Gov. Francis w. Higgins, and the late S. Fred Nixon. speaker of the New York state assembly. In substance MT. Hartman testified today that when MT. Ryan bought the Hyde stock. carrying control of the Equit- able society, he asked MT. Hartman to cooperate with him in saving the prop ert that Mr. Hartman agreed to do 1t ic satisfied that MT. Ryan was acting from pure and unselfish motives; that MT. Ryan did not satisfy him to the pur- ity of his motives, and that MT. Harri- man notified him that he would use his influence against him. The test which MT. Hartman said he applied to determine MT. Ryan's purity of motives was an of far ta aixa ana-balf the Hyde stock and to name two trustees of the society. MT Ryan refused to agree to that. MT. Hartman testified that MT. Ryan should not have assumed that he Harriman) would use ais political influence against him. He was rot~cerrain whether he said anything about legislative action as a warning to Mr. Ryan, but declared that he had nothing to do with starting the present insurance investigation.
 Charles E. Hughes, counsel for the com mittee, informed MT. Hartman that it had been charged that he got his political in- fuence through his relation with former Gov. B. B. Odell, Jr. MT. Hartman said
 well I should think MT. Odell had political influence because of his relation with me-
 Laughter followed the remark.
 Later MT. Hartman said to the Asso- ciated Press that the remark was meant in jocular sense
 Mr. Hartman declared to the commit tee that he did not confer with MT. Odell about the advisability of legislative action, and that he has not yet taken any ac- ton to thwart mr. Ryan's plans. Last spring MT. Hartman said when the man agement of the Equitable Life Assurance society was divided into two factions the one headed by President James w. Alex ander and the other by James H. Hyde, an attempt was made by the Alexander faction to induce the legislature to mutual ize the society MT. Hartman said he asked members of the legislature to watch out for any legislation favorable to the Alexander faction and to report to him if it appeared He was averSe to disclos- ing the names of the men to whom he made this request, and only consented to do so after repeated urging on the part of Senator William Armstrong, chairman of the committee, and by MT Hughes, and after he had been allowed to consult with his counsel He then stated that 1t was Governor Higgins and Speaker Nixon whom he had asked to watch out for the Alexander legislation. He added that no such legislation was introduced and that he took no steps through Governor Hig- gins and Speaker Nixon to prevent it.
 Hartman on Stand.
 E. H. Hartman was called to the stand when the insurance Investigating com mittee opened It's session today MT. liar riman said he learned of the sale of the Hyde stock on the day that MT. Ryan bought it. He telephoned to MT Ryan and asked him if he had bought it Ryan said the purchase vas conditional" said see me and talk with me, and that he wanted my help I criticized his plan and wanted to know what he meant by it. Ten or fifteen minutes later went to Mir Ryan's office. He told me he decided to buy the stock and said it was time for him to make name for himself. He said he had decided to buy Hyde's stock pro- vided he could get his nominee elected chairman of the board. He said he had made good deal of money and never had done anything to make a name for himself. I questioned his motive. He had told me he wanted my help; that l was the only man in New York whose help he desired"
 What kind of help?" asked Mir Hughes, counsel for the Investigating committee.
 'To help him get his nominee elected chairman of the board,' replied MT. Har- riman.
 Asked on what ground he had criticized MT. Ryan's plan, MT. Hartman replied:
 well. it was rather staggering to any body that Ryan wanted to control the Equitable or should have control of it."
 q told him." continued MT. Hartman, 'that if I was satisfied he was acting from a pure and unselfish motive in the interest of the Equitable. I would help him. He told me his plan. did not tell him that I wanted a share in the Hyde stock I assisted him to get his >omi- nee elected"
 sWhy did you, if you were not satisfied as to the purity of his motives?" asked MT. Hughes.
 'sI became satisfied that with Mir. Nor ton in charge, and if MT Ryan were sin cere, the affairs of the Equitable would be safe. I was not convinced that MT. Ryan was sincere. I did not then think MT. Ryan would share the stock with me-"
 Assemblyman Rogers of the committee here asked:
 "When did you resign as director of the Equitable?"
 When the Prick committee made their report. This was June g."
 'The next interview with Mir. Ryan was the Monday following the purchase of