Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1905-12-15
HARTMAN TESTIFIED
Told Conversation w ith Ryan
Over Stock Purchase
AT lNSURANCEINQUIRY
CRITICISED LATTER'S PLAN TO
GET CONTROL OF EQUITABLE.
Regarded Ambition as Staggering to
Anybody-other Testimony in
New York Today.

E. H. Hartman. in the insurance invest-
cation in New York, today said that he
was instrumental in preventing bills from
being introduced in the legislature to aid
one faction in the Equitable to get control
Of the society. TT has been openly
charged. said Mr.. Hughes, that you get
your political influence through your rela-
tons with Mr.. Odell."
II should say that Mr.. Odell gets his
political influence through his relations
with me- responded Mr.. Hartman.
Mr.. Hartman said that when move
was foot to give the control of the
Equitable to James w. Alexander and his
friends by means Of legislative action at
Albany he wired certain persons at Albany
to keep him informed as TO the progress
such proceedings might make. Asked who
these persons at Albany were Mr.. Harri-
man requested that he be excused from
answering. He said he did not want to
answer because he did not want to give
occasion for sensational newspaper head
lines. The committee and counsel. Mr..
Hughes, retired for consultation. Mr.. Har-
riman said he would like to consult counsel
before replying.
The committee decided. however, that he
should answer and he did so, saying that
the persons from whom he had requested
the information were Gov. Higgins and the
late Speaker Nixon of the assembly.
After Mr.. Hartman had answered con-
cerning Gov. Higgins and Speaker Nixon,
Senator Armstrong, chairman of the com
mittee. said:
1--WE are sorry you gave such an air of
mystery to this matter, as we all know
such inquiries are regular and common"
Mr.. Hartman then said: II ask the press
to spare them and not bring their names
into the headlines"
NEW YORK, December 15.-E. H. Harri-
man was called to the stand when the
its session today.
Mr.. Hartman said he learned of the sale
OF the Hyde stock on the day that MIR.
Ryan bought 1t. He telephoned to Mr..
Ryan and asked him If he had bought it.
Ryan said the purchase was conditioal,"
said Mr.. Hartman. "and that he wanted
to see me and talk with me and that he
wanted my help 1 criticised his plan and
wanted to know what he meant by 1t. Ten
or fifteen minutes later 1 went to Mr..
Ryan's Office He told me he had decided
to buy the stock and said 1t was time for
him to make name for himself He sad
he had decided to buy Hyde's stock pro-
vided he could get his nominee elected
chairman of the board. He said he had
made a good deal of money and never had
done anything to make a name for him
self. 1 questioned his motive. He had
told me he wanted my help: that l was
the one man in New York whose help he
desired"
What kind of help" asked Mr.. Hughes.
counsel to the investigating committee.
ITO help him get his nominee elected
chairman of the board" replied Mr.. har-
Ryan's Plan Staggering.
Asked upon what ground he had crlu-
cised Mr.. Ryan's plan MIR. Hartman re-
Piled
"wcll, 1t was rather staggering to any
body, that Ryan wanted to control the
Equitable or should have control of IT,
IL told him." continued Mr.. Hartman,
chat if = was satisfied that he was acting
from a pure and unselfish motive In the
interest of the Equitable | would help him.
He told me his plan. | did not tell him
then that | wanted a share in the Hyde
stock l assisted him 10 get his nominee
elected.
''Why did you, if you were not satisfied
as to the purity of his motives?' asked
Mr. Hughes.
81 became satisfied that with Mr.. Morton
in charge, and if Mr.. Ryan were sincere,
the affairs of the Equitable would be SAFE
j was not convinced that Mr.. Ryan was
sincere.
MI Hughes asked how he was consulted.
81 had to do with preventing bills from
being introduced in the legislature by one
faction in the Equitable to get control of
the society,"
'It has been charged that through your
relation with Mr.. Odell you have political
influence; what would you say as to that?'
asked Mr.. Hughes.
Odel1 an Influence.
well, l should think Mr. Odell had politi-
cal influence because of his relations with
me-" replied Mr.. Hartman. Qaughter).
few minutes later in his testimony Mr.
Hartman returned to the subject Of former
Gov. odell and political influence and
said:
Mr.. Hughes. you spoke about Gov. Odell
and my having political influence because
of my relations or affiliation with him. /
would like to say that all last spring dur
ing the Equitable controversy, between its
here, nor was he communicated with about
it. so that he had no hand in 1T what
ever"
And during that period were you in con-
sultatfon with members of the legislature"
asked Mr.. Hughes.
Not specially"
I'm regard to insurance matters?"
l mad the matter watched at Albany to
see what attempts were being made to use
the legislature improperly"
What He Referred To.
when you refer to the possession of no
lltioal influence through relations to you
you mean because of the many important
matters in which you are interested, for
which you stand?'
''Yes, in many ways
Haven't you In the prominent position
referred to great many subjects TINT
come before the legislature?"
No. have no special interest In many
| matters that come before the legislatures"
Well was referring to matters af-
fecttng railroads. banks and trust com
panies.."
NO, 1 never had any hand In that
We'll. don't just understand what YOU
meant by political influence through rela-
ton to YOU said Mr.. Hughes
ANY common citizen has some political
influence" said the witness, ..and If any.
body In politics can get the friendship
and backing of people who have no poIti-
cal end to serve. why. It gives them more
or less standing. Now Governer odelI
might resent such a statement as that
don't know whether he would or not but
think II was in politics would try