The Washington times. [volume] (Washington [D.C.]) 1902-1939, 1904-04-25
Judge Powers Declares Church of Latter
Day Saints is Much Interested
in Education.
MOSES THATCHER TESTIFIES
REGARDING HIS TROUBLES
Fell Out With the Apostles Because of His
Strong Objections to the Union of
Church and State

| Mormons and said they then unloaded
the property on the Gentiles. when the
| boom was about at an end
Apostle Grants Whereabouts.
Chairman Burrows inquired whether
witness knew Apostle Heber J. Grant.
Witness said he did; that Grant was
reputed to be in England or on the way
10 a kindergarten congress in Berlin.
He was polygamist and had been ap-
pointed by the governor to Utah to rep
resent the State at this foreign meeting.
Witness said Apostle Grant spoke 10
the pupils of the State Agricultural
College a short time ago, on his return
from Japan, and contributed $50 to the
university funds. saying: This IS so
for myself and so for each OF my two
wives; l wish I had more"
Was this in the presence Of the
school children asked Chairman Bur
icws.
Witness said it was.
Further inquiries were made as 10
when Grant left Utah. and under what
circumstances
Il did not assert he got out OF town
in the way he did, because OF the war
rant for his arrest" witness said. but
understand he went In the night
he explained that a warrant for Grants
arrest had been issued. and that his
departure was connected. in the minds
of many people, with that action.
ing between Grant and Governor Wells
He said the goevrncr's sister was
Grants plural wife.
The manner Of conducting the Uni
versity OF Utah, the Utah Agricultural
School, the Brigham Young Academy at
Provo, OF which %enator Smoot is a
trustee. and other institutions and the
officials IN charge of them were brought
persons prominent in sheir direction,
whether Mormon or Gentle, polygamisr
Judge Powers ended his testimony
with a few general statements-
Moses Thatcher Called.
Moses Thatcher, of Logan. Utah, was
the next witness. He said he had
reached Utah in 1S47. following the
pioneers. His parents were Aformons
ana he was born in the Mormon
Church His official positions in the
church have been elder, head of q
quorum of seventy and an apostle.
NlIress became an apostle IN 1915, and
remained such until 1896 he Is now
siXty-tWO years old
A controversy arose between witness
and the nrSt PRESIDENT IN 1880 IN respect
10 his candidacy Tor senator Later
IL became more acute. Witness had
taken an interest IN pOHtlcs, but had not
been especially active IN partisan
sense he na0 considered himself. as
far back as ne could remember, IN har-
mony with the principles or the national
Democratic party. Wien the iAOeral
and Peoples parJies dissolved, and Oe-
lore that time. IN IacJ. he had 1elt an
interest in the DemOcrauc side.
Ia all this time he had been an apostle
in good standing IN the church IN 1913
and 1880 he had been 10 Mexico On 4
church mission and in 1881 10 the Wind
River country. He had been in Mexico
on twenty or twenty-five different times
ana had Travelled on an average ok l5,VS0
ss4f ffa.- f4 Frafh no
ing away from Utah most or the time.
Coming TO 1895, witness had not cOnsid-
cred himself out OF harmony With the
members Of the quorum OF apostles up
70 that time.
Senator Dubois asked whether the dif-
ferences among the apostles were not
just as they are among Senator'S at
Washington and witness answered IN
the Affirmative.
Witness first learned that his brother
apostles took OfIense at his conduct "A
any way on his position on any matter.
imediately subsequent TO q speech ae
made In the Ogden opera house in 1872.
Describing this. witness said:
His Course Attacked.
I was called from the audience. by
the audience, and asked TO speak on
the advancement Of civilization and the
growth Of civilization. / may hssve made
some caustic references to mny Repub-
hcan friends. / have not copy or the
speech. But, at any rate, Il called out
a criticism from the ogden Standard
and an open letter, signed by Joseph
+. and John Henry Smith as republic
cans, published in the same issue OF
that paper Joseph r. Smith was at
that time consuIor 10 President Wood
run and John Henry Smftl was an
apostle
Witness referred 20 . pamphlet issued
December y. 1896. entitled The late
manifesto, practical working 9f 'cOun-
sci, ' by Calvin ReGsOner. Attorney
Tayler was directed by the chainan 10
marx such parts of the book. which is
OF 100 pages. as he desired TO have 90
into the official record OF testimony.
Mr. thatcher then read the newspaper
account of remarks made By him on
July 80 1891. AT request of idr. TayIeT,
witness read the last paragraph OF the
account which said: We trust the
Mormon Democrats and the Gentle
Democratic alike 1 am opposed TO the
upion of church and state
Witness said the statements had been
correctly reported. At this point aa-
lournmeut was taken until 1879 O'Clock
tomorrow morning