The San Francisco call., 1904-03-08

| Richard Cornelius, president of the
| Garments Union, and ministers of the
Christian church, presided over by DR..
w. M. White. had an interesting. hour
or so yesterday afternoon at the Y.
NJ c. A.
| The representative of the carmen was
introduced by Rev. DR.. Macfarlane, the
object. Of Cornelius being to explain
| the position of the union men especially
with regard to the churches. Cornelius
said:
J i am accustomed to the rough places
/ of life and not the fine element, If you
WILL because l am up against the act
ualities of life. therefore 1t may be pre-
sumptuous. of me to tell you of the re-
| lations between the church and the
working man.
1T is just this, either the workingmen
are deserving better conditions or they
are getting only what they deserve.
DIR. Macfarlane believed that 1 had
message for you, but 1 deem it that
you have message for us. If there
! is anything that | can tell you that will
change you to our side l would be
pleased. though I believe you to be alb
solutely neutral. But If there Is some
thing wrong on one side it is we'll that
{ that side should be considered.
i was brought up in the church of
England and the first lesson from MY
dear old teacher was when 1 was taught
/ to believe that 1 was created in Gods
| image. That teaching was very beau
tiful and / still cling to it, though be-
gan to doubt the justice of God when
had to go into the mines while other
boys wore good clothes and had an
easier time.
| Now, who comes nearest to filling
that passage which l was taught? Does
Morgan? does Rockefeller or the cap
tains or industry or the walking dele
gate?
The teaching of people that they
should strive to become employers at
any cost is wrong, though 1 don't ques-
I tion but that nine-tenths of the men
could make out time table as COM
petently as Manager Chapman in a few
years But how many get to be an
employer? Not one in 10000, for it is
absolutely impossible.
Would it not be better to tell the
men how to improve their present con-
dition?'
DIR. Macfarlane, DR.. Berry, DIR. White,
DR.. Morgan, DR.. Boyer and DR.. Darst
then put a number of questions to
Cornelius regarding the status of labor
unions and their power and ethics.
DIR. Macfarlane protested that the
church was not antagonistic to the
unions and, indeed they courted the
workingmen and would gladly become
more heartily in touch with them and
by that means a better understanding
would prevail toward the church.
Dr. Macfarlane asked if the labor
unions grow to be a power would they
not be worse than employers now?
Cornelius replied that he did not think
So for he knew that at the bottom
of a great body of men there was
good sense and a desire for fair play.
In answer to a question as to the
rights of non-union men, Cornelius
said:
THE non-union man is usually ig
norant and more often rogue. They
are the men the ministers apparently
claim to defend. The quick way would
ne to let the men handle them. How
ever, we don't believe in hurting them,
/ but you can't feel the bitterness we
feel toward that class of men. If you
could feel as we do you wouldn't feel
! so hard against us.
I'VE are a long way from getting
what is coming to US. In the struggle
| upward there is going to be strife, all
of which cannot be charged up to our
side. We are only too eager to receive
little concession
DR.. Morgan asked whether Cornelius
had an opinion that ultimately there
would be conflict such as resulted in
the French revolution.
Cornelius replied:
IT hope not. l don't think 1t Is pos
sible in this country"
DR.. Macfarlane here interjected his
astonishment that Cornelius mind
should have been given up to the idea
that the church opposed the men be-
! longing to unions There was no ground
for such a thought. He asked whether
labor was not cutting it's own throat
by holding an antipathy to the church.
! The lack of moral character. he point
ed out. was a grave danger. The alb
sence of men from the church and the
keeping of their children from relig-
ious service was a neglect of moral
training.
/ Cornelius then continued:
'I am afraid that a certain pastor
who feels that union and non-union
men should work side by side is mis-
/ taken, for that is impossible. There
must be a closed shop. We insist upon
that"
DR.. Boyer asked whether incom-
petent union men did not demand the
same wages that are demanded by
competent union men.
Cornelius replied:
For every poor mechanic out of the
union you can produce I'll find 1000
within that are competent"
Asked about the conduct of unions
| Cornelius said
mo doubt lots of unions are going
the wrong way. The pendulum has
been swinging one way for so long and
now it is swinging another way and
| going too far, but it Will be gradually
rectified am opposed to employers.
7 believe that every man should en-