The Birmingham age-herald., 1904-03-13

 ate unless he Is an apostle" Mir. Van colt asked.
 "oh, no; I don't mean that but Mir Shoot could not have done so."
 What Is the basis for that state ment7''
 His relations in Utah were not such as would entitle him to the place."
 Can you name a Mormon, republican, who would have received the support Of the people, or who is more entitled to the place than MT. Smoot?'
 'Yes; Governor Wells"
 'Yes-go ahead"
 T don't know of many Mormons who are republicans; they are Mormons."
 What do you mean by that? Do you mean that they put their Mormonism ahead of republicanism asked Senator Hopkins
 That's what l mean
 Was there any other republican men toned for the senatorship before the se- lection of Shoot as an apostleY'
 Yes; Governor Wells was mentioned, and Governor Thomas. and others"
 Tn answer to other questions, Judge lilies said he believed MT Shoot always had taken an active part in politics, ana had been allied with the republicans but that he never had heard of Shoots hav- Ing made HI duuItSS III aiS SeAfP"'o-A'
 Asked About Non-Mormons. MT. Vancott asked the witness how he accounted in view of the testimony he had given for the Mormons sending non- Mormons to the senate.
 How about Joseph L. Rawlins?' he asked
 Joseph L. Rawlins is a Mormon"
 What Rawlins Mormon?'
 He was born into the church, of pa- rentage Mormons."
 But surely you don't mean to say that because a man is born of Mormon parentage he is always a Mormon?"
 Pretty close to 1t.
 MT. Vancott mentioned the fact that former Senator Rawlins stood against the church in, regard to its principles, and worked against It. Judge lilies correct ed the statement by saying certain prin- ciples," and said that with the qualifi- cation he had made he regarded Rawlins as Mormon. Continuing, he said he heard President Joseph Smith say that Frank J. Cannon was a poor Mormon, but witness counted Cannon a 'good Nor mon," and while 1t may be said that Rawlins was not a good Mormon" new ertheless he was a Mormon. Judge lilies said that both Cannon and Rawlins stood
  in politics. He declared that he once be- lieved in the good faith of the church, but that he did not believe in 1t now.
 Resents the Rawlns Matter.
 MT. vancott attempted to take Judge lilies to task for his statement that Raw lins was a Mormon, and asked as if a matter of fact, his entire testimony was not just as reliable as his statement in regard to Rawllns. The witness stood his he knew what he was talking about, and lins was a Mormon.
 He added with emphasis that there were no qualifications in regard to the remain der of his testimony
 The witness said his basis for believing that polygamy was more fragrant since Utah was admitted as state, was that more polygamous children were born, and that polygamists drove through the streets more openly than before. He could cite only one instance of the latter kind, however. Senator Hopkins asked a num- Der of questions to find out if Judge lilies knew whether there had been any poly gamous marriages since the manifesto, and he said there had not Witness said he ''believed" that such marriages had taken place. One case he had in mind was that of a personal friend and he thought the plural vows had been taken since the manifesto on account of the youth of the woman.
 There being no other witness to examine the committee adjourned subject to the call of the chairman.