The Salt Lake herald. [volume] (Salt Lake City [Utah]) 1870-1909, 1903-02-16

! relations were maintained hui there
was 70 new taking on. and therefore
| In time polygamy would appear.
| Now, let me ask the senator another
question Notwithstanding that, and
4 what he thinks viii be the absolute dis
appearance Of polyga-ny as a practice
of the church. ask whether the Nor
mon church organization and its hold
/ over its followers and membership is
| maintained as strongly as eVer2 Not
withstanding the disappearance OF po-
! iygamous marriage as a church prac-
4 tice, do the Mormons still hold that
I kind Of allegiance which in a sense is
| offensive in that ii makes the church
/ higher than the government? What is
! the opinion OF the senator as to that2-
! for am asking actually. for informa-
4 ton.
| Mr.. Dubois-Very much to my regret.
Mr.. President, must answer the SEN
ator's question in the affirmative.
the power of the Mormon church over
its followers in political and temporal
affairs since the disappearance of po-
| lygamy. Polygamy, as the senator
! says, has practically disappeared; it is
no longer a question which bothers any
of US who live in that part of the coun-
| try.
Mr. Hale-But the hierarchy is there?
Mr. Dubois-The hierarchy is there,
! and designing politicians are there, as
| everywhere, and if il were not for those
| politicians. coming from the outside in
a great many instances. / imagine that
| our people IN that western country
would gradually divorce the church
| from the state in politics.
] Mr.. Plat of COnnecticut-Has not the
/ Mormon church. by manifesto or pro-
] clamation. or whatever name you Will
! give to their authoritative utterances,
said that they did not propose to take
part in politics, that their members
were entirely free to join either of the
| political parties, and to have any po-
liticaI associations and affiliations that
they chose?
Mr.. Dubois-They did. That was a
/ part of this very manifesto, and one OF
the strong reasons which impelled US in
that country to cheerfully accept it, as
Stunning that they would carry out that
provision as well as the other.
| Mr.. Hale-But the senator finds that,
so far as the power of the church. the
concentrated power over the individual,
the hierarchy. is concerned, that is as
! strong today as it ever was?
Mr.. Dubois-Well / probably went a
I little too far in saying, if I did make
| such statement. that II was as strong
| as it ever was. I think it Is not. The
younger members Of the Mormon
| church. since they have been given the
right of franchise and have participant
ed in politics, do not take kindly TO the
exercise of this authority by the
| leaders, and great many of them are
breaking away; but the power of the
church is as absolute among most of
the older people as it wasin former
days.
Mr.. Hale-There is no falling to
pieces of that?
Mr. Dubois-There is a falling pieces
among the younger element, who resent
it.
Mr.. Hale-But not in the organization
| of the Mormon church That is main
tanned just as firmly as ever?
Mr.. Dubois-No Mormon holding high
ecclesiastical position can aspire to any
! political Office without first gaining the
! consent of the first presidency of the
| Mormon church.
Mr.. Hale-That is clearly an objec-
| tionable condition. Does not. the SEN
| ator agree with me upon that?
| Mr.. Dubois-Most thoroughly. II is.
-if anything, more objectionable than
polygamy.
Mr.. Hale-More far-reaching in its
result?
Mr.. Dubois-More detrimental to the
state and to the interests of the United
| States.
Mr.. Hale-But that exists today?
! Mr.. Dubois-That exists today That
ruling was made by the first presidency
of the Mormon church some six or
/ ruling
| they destroyed Apostle Thatcher, a
Democrat, who was aspiring to a seat
in this body. He went before a Demo-
| cratic legislature asking to be elected
/ United States senator. and the first
presidency destroyed his ambition be-
cause he had not gained the consent
of the first presidency to make his can
vass.
Mr. Hale-Does the senator think
| and he has large intelligence about this
! and nearby states and territories-that
| a like condition affecting the church and
nearby states and territories that a
! like condition affecting the church and
its sway and its influence and the allie
| glance to it exists today TO any extent
| in New Mexico and Arizona as it does
! in Idaho-not the practice Of polygamy
| by polygamous marriages In the fu-
ture. but the deepseated, overruling law
and control of the Mormon church
which the senator has so we'll described
| in Idaho2 Does he think that condition
exists to a more or less degree in the
two territories which are the subject of
this discussion?
Mr.. Dubois-It exists in those two
territories in exactly the same degree
that it exists in Wyoming. Utah and
Idaho, and every other place where
there are Mormon people.
Mr.. Beveridge-May 1 ask the senator
a question.
Mr.. Dubois-Certainly
| Mr.. BeVeridge-DOeS the senator
know whether or not there is on the
statute books of either of these terri
tories any law in force at present
against pOlygany?
Mr.. Dubois-I do not know, and do
not care.
Mr.. Beveridge-I should be glad to
have the information if the senator has
it. I do care.
Mr.. Dubois-I have stated as plainly
as I can that there is not any polyg-
amy. So what is the use of having a
law against something that does not
exist?
Mr. Beveridge-The question is then.
! What is the use of putting in the bill
a prohibition against poaygamous mar
riages?
Mr.. Dubois-There is not any particu-
lar use. If my statement on that point
ments are true. 1 mean my statement
that polygdmo1s marriages are not
sanctioned or contracted by the Nor
mon church
Mr. Warren-I have no desire TO cor
rect the senator in his statements re-
garding Mormon affairs or the Mormon
people in Idaho, nor do desire to de-
fine conditions in Arizona or New Mex
leo; but wish to say that in my expe-
rience of thirty-five years in Wyoming
I have known no difference between the
Mormon church and any other church
SO far as politics have been concerned.
no mart tho Mormon T1pon1o Fax rr