The San Francisco call., 1903-12-10
LIE IS PASSED
BY ATTORNEYS
Sharp Tits Between Counsel
Enliven Proceedings in the
Shipyards Trust Investigation
PERKINS AGAIN ON GRILL
Defense Repeats Its Protest
Against the Introduction of
the Morgan Harjes Letter


of the United States Shipbuiiding Com
pany hearing to-day. Guthrie charac-
terized a statement by Untermyer as
almost indecent" and the latter re-
torted in warm terms.
George w. Perkins OF the firm Of ].
P. Morgan & Co. resumed his testi-
mony his presence on the stand renew
ing the interest in the case. At the
opening Guthrie restored to the files in
the case the copy of the Morgan,
Harjes & Co. letter which he took
away with him yesterday, thereby pre-
venting its publication, and Counsel
Untermyer re sumed the examination on
this subject.
The first question showed that this
letter inclosed a copy of a letter sent
by c. B. Alexander of Alexander s,
Green to Morgan, Harjes & Co., and
over the Identification and admission
Of this copy another protest was made
by Counsel Guthrie for the defense.
Guthrie repeated this protest against
this letter being given to the press,
evoking a warm reply from Counsel
Untermyer. who declared that he did
not propose to submit to any more
"dyspeptic behavior" on the part of
counsel, saying Guthrie had himself
given out Inintroduced testimony for
publication and making a formal
statement before the examiner in re-
gard to Guthrie's protests about public
ity.
Guthrie characterized this statement
as almost indecent" and the lie was
passed on both sides Guthrie speaking
of deliberate falsehood" on the part
Of Untermyer, who rstorted in terms
equally strong.
A copy Of the Alexander letter in
closed in the Morgan, Harjes & Co. let
ter was marked for Identification.
Perkins was then asked to tell in de-
tail how he came TO cable to Paris the
message introduced yesterday, refer
ring to the interest of Mr.. Schwab and
his friends in the shipbuilding COM
pany. He told of three requests made
by Colonel McCook OF Alexander &,
Green. the first asking that Morgan &
Co. cable 20 their Paris house an in
dorsement Of the shipbuilding company.
This was refused.
MC0OOh lllGll dShCh eAoN eiAI - -
branch be informed that Schwab, Nix
on. Dresser and others were interested
in the company, that the properties
were valuable, and that the men in
terested were recommended. Perkins
consented to send a cablegram on July
30, to the purport that "Mr. Schwab
and his friends are interested in the
new shipbuilding plant and would De
very glad" to have the Paris house
take as cordial an interest in it as is
consistent.
Perkins did not recall that Colonel
McCook told him anything of the con-
dition of the French underwriting or
why the recommendation was desired
Perkins was asked what he knew of
the shipbuilding company at the time
Of the sale of the Bethlehem plant, and
replied that he knew very little about
il. but the contract for the sale pro-
vided that Morgan & Co. would receive
the actual amount of cash advanced
for the Bethlehem company, the $o,000,
600 stock being taken in lieu of all
profits and interest on the investment
Morgan &. Co. were by this contract
also to have legal option on the or
ganization of the shipbuilding com
pany
But what information did you or
Morgan G. Co. have of the value of the
stock you were taking in part payment
or of the value of the plants included
in the combination? Untermyer asked.
Perkins replied that, so far as he
knew, mo investigation on this point
was made by Morgan & Co."
Untermyer was not. satisfied with the
word investigation" and insisted on
an answer in regard to 'any informa-
tion or knowledge of the shipbuildlng
plants or their values"
Perkins insisted that he personally
had no knowledge on July 30, when the
cable was sent, of the plants, their
value or their earnings, and had no
concern with the shipbuilding transac-
tion, nor did he. on August u, when
the sale of Bethlehem was closed, have
any such knowledge to give him an
idea of the value of the securities taken
in part payment.
Asked about Dresser, Nixon and
Pam, Perkins declared that he had
known them only in a general way up
to the time of the sale of the Bethlehem
plant and that he did not know that
du1 was OSUWdU DIGS-
ser, in asking for the loan, was speak
ing as president of the Trust Company
of the Republic. Perkins had consid-
cred, but he had not interested himself
in the question of whether that trust
company was responsible to the extent
of $2.Oo0.O00.
Perkins professed ignorance on many
points, saying that the negotiations
had been in the hands of Steele, an
other of the partners.
The Harris, Gates & Co agreement
of August II, 1902, that the sale of the
Morgan and Schwab stock should pre-
cede the sale of the rest, was men
toned, but Perkins said that he had
never seen the agreement. Steele had
told him that there was an agreement,
but he (Perkins) had not discussed it
with. others, nor had he anything to do
with it's negotiation.
]. p Morgan. he testified, knew moth
ing, to witness knowledge, of the ship
building deal during its progress, and
was not informed of the negotiations