Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1903-12-09
ON THE STAND
Shipbuilding Hearing Opens
With Sharp Tilt.
DEMURS TO PUBLICITY
DEFENSE CALL STATEMENT
ALMOST INDECENT"
Discussion Becomes Highly Acrimon-
ious and the Lie is Passed Be
tween Opposing Counsel.
DEMURS TO PUBLICITY
ALMOST INDECENT"

tween Opposing Counsel.
NEW YORK, December "a sharp tilt
between counsel enlivened the opening of
the United States shipbuilding hearing to-
day. Mr.. Guthrie characterized state
ment by Mr.. Untermyer as almost in
decent" and the latter retorted in warm
terms.
George w. Perkins of the firm of j. P.
Morgan & Co resumed his testimony, his
presence on the stand renewing the interest
in the case, which had slightly lapsed dur
ing the long drawn out testimony of Lewis
Nixon. 1t was expected that Mr.. Perkins
would be dismissed today. Max Pam and
c. M. Schwab are two important witnesses
remaining to be heard, but counsel for the
complainants announced that they would
not be reached today. Mr.. Pam was pres
ent. he has been nearly every day of
the hearing.
At the opening Mr. Guthrie restored to
the files in the case the copy Of the Morgan,
Harjes & Co. letter which he took away
with him yesterday, thereby preventing its
publication and Counsel Untermyer re-
sumed the examination on this subject.
Defense Demurs to Publication of Let
ter.
The first question showed that this letter
inclosed a copy of letter sent by C. 3.
Alexander, of Alexander & Green, to
Morgan, Harjes & Co., and over the identi-
fcation and admission of this copy another
protest was made by Counsel Guthrie for
the defense. Mr. Guthrie repeat ted his pro-
test against this letter being furnished to
the press, evoking a warm reply from
Counsel t1ntprmVer who declared that he
did not propose to submit to any more
"dyspeptic behavior" on the part of coun-
sci, said that Mr. Guthrie had himself
given out unintroduced testimony for pub
alton, and made a formal statement be-
fore the examiner in regard to Mr.. Guth-
ries protests about publicity.
Mr.. Guthrie characterized this statement
as almost indecent" and the lies passed on
both sides. Mr.. Guthrie speaking of de
liberate falsehood' on the part of Inter
myer, who retorted In terms equally strong.
copy of the Alexander letter inclcsed
in the Morgan, Harjes & Co. letter was
marked for identifica ton.
Asked to Explain Sending Cable.
Mr.. Perkins was then asked to tell in de-
tail how he came to cable to Paris the mes
sage introduced yesterday referring to the
interest of Mr.. Schwab and his frien is
in the shipbuilding company. He told of
three requests made by Col. McCook Ct
AttAanQeT q 1feef, the 1lTSl time dshiHo
that Morgan & Co. cable to their Paris
house an Endorsement of the shipbuilding
company. This was refused. Mr.. McCook
then asked that the Paris branch be in
formed that Messrs. Schwab, Nixon.
Dresser and others were interested in the
company: that the properties we're val
liable, and that the men Interested were
recommended. Mr.. Perkins consented to
send cablegram on July 80 to toe pur-
rcrt that Mr.. Schwab and his friends are
interested in the new shipbuilding plant
and would be very glad to have the Paris
house take as cordial an interest In 1t as
is consistent"
Mr.. Perkins did not recall that Col. Nc
Cook told him anything of the condition OF
the French underwriting or why the recon-
mendation was desired.
What He Knew Of Bethlehem Plant
Sale.
Mr. Perkins was asked what he knew Of
the shipbulding company at the time of
the sale Of the Bethlehem plant, and re-
piled that he knew very little about it, but
that the contract for the sale provided that
Morgan & Co. should receive the actual
amount of cash advanced for the Bethle-
hem company, the 5000, 600 stock being
taken in lieu of all profits and interest on
the investment. Morgan & Co. were Also
by this contract, to have legal opinion
on the organization Of the shipbuilding
company.
"But what information did you or Morgan,
& Co have Of the value of the stock you
were taking in part payment, or of the
value of the plants included in the combi-
nation?" Mr.. Untermyer asked.
Mr. Perkins replied that so far as he
knew mo investigation on this point was
made by Morgan & Co.," but Mr.. Inter
myer was not satisfied with the word in
vestigation" and insisted on an answer In
regard to ANY information or knowledge
of the shipbuilding plants or their values"
knowledge Of All Transactions Poor.
Mr.. Perkins insisted that he personally
had no knowledge on July 80. when the
cable was sent, Of the plants their values
or their earnings, and had no concern with
the shipbuilding transaction nor did he on
August IL, when the sale Of Bethlehem was
closed have any such knowledge to give
him an idea of the value OF the securities
taken In part payment
Asked about Messrs. Dresser Nixon and
pam Mr.. Perkins declared that he had
known them only in a general way up to
the time of the sale of Bethlehem. and that
he did not know that Pam was represent
ing Schwab. Mr.. Dresser, in asking for the
loan. was speaking as president of the
Trust Company of the Republic, Mr.. Per-
kins had considered, but he had not inter-
ested himself in the question Of whether
that trust company was responsible TO the
extent of 1000, COO
Knew Very Little About It.
Mr.. Perkins expressed ignorance on many
points. stating that the negotiations had
been in the hands Of Mr. Steele, another Of
the partners.
The Harris. Gates & Co. agreement of
August II. 1902, that the sale Of the Nor
gan and Schwab stock should precede the
sale of the rest was mentioned. but Mr..
Perkins said that he had never seen the
agreement. Mr.. Steele had told him that
there was an agreement, but he (Perkins)
had not discussed it with others, nor had
he anything to do with its negotiation.
Morgan Also Poorly Informed.
j. P. Morgan he testified, knew nothing,
to witness knowledge, Of the ship building
deal during its progress and was not in
formed during his stay in Europe of the
negotiations. 20
After a number of other professions of
ignorance Mr.. Perkins was turned over to
Mr.. Guthrie for cross-examination. Mr..
Guthrie asked two questions about the
Sheldon syndicate, and on Mr. Perkins
stating his lack of Information. the wit