Daily Kennebec journal. [microfilm reel] (Augusta, Me.) 1870-1975, 1903-12-10
WHO'S A LIAR?
Counsel on Both Sides in Ship
building Trust Case
Intimate That The Other Fellow Is
Trifing With the Truth.
The Hearing Grows Spicy and Prom
Uses Rich Revelations.

ANcJ VI IL, bCI. "a t2Atoi = VA NC
tween the counsel eniivened the OPEN
ing OF the Shipbuilding hearing, today.
Mr.. Guthrie characterized a statement
by Mr.. Untermyer as almost indecent
and the later retorted in warm terms.
George W. Perkins of the firm OF j.
p. Morgan & Co., resumed his testi-
mony. 1t was expected that Mr.. Per-
kins would be dismissed, today. Max
Pam and C. NJ. ScnWab, important
witnesses, remain to be heard, but
counsel for the compliments announc-
ed they would not be reached, today.
At the opening, Mr.. Guthrie restored
TO the files in the case, the copy OF the
Morgan, Harjes IL Co., letter which he
took away with him, yesterday, there
by preventing its publication, and
Counsel Untermyer resumed the exam
nation ON this subject. The first ques-
ton showed that this letter enclosed a
copy of letter sent by c. y. Alexander
of Alexander & Green, to Morgan,
Harjes e. Co, and over the iGentifica-
ton and admission of this copy another
Protest was made by Counsel Guthrie
for the defence. Mr.. Guthrie repeated
his protest against this Letter being fur
nished TO the press evoking a warm
reply from Counsel Untermyer who
declared that he did not propose to
submit to any more "dyspeptic behaV-
for' on the part of the counsel and said
that Mr.. Guthrie had himself given out
unintroduced testimony for publication
and made n formal statement before
the examiner in regard to Mr.. Guthrie's
protests about publicity.
Mr. Guthrie characterized this state
ment as almost indecent and the lie
was passed on both sides, Mr.. Guthrie
srcaking CT deliberate f2lsehood'' on,
the part of Mr.. Untermyer who re-
piled in terms equally strong. @a
The copy of the Alexander letter en-
closed in the Morgan. Maries &s Co.
leter WaS marked for Identification.
Mr. Perkins was then asked to tell
in detail how he came to cable to Paris
the message introduced, yesterday, reg
fcrring to the interest of"Mr. Schwab
or his friends in the Shipbuildng Cos
He told of three requests made by Col.
McCook, of Alexander &, Green, the
first time asking that Morgan e Co..
cable TO their Paris house an endorse
mont Of the Shipbuilding Co. This was
refused.
branch be Informed that Messrs.
Schwab. Nixon and Dresser and others
were Interested in the company, that
the properties Were valuable and tho
men Interested We're recommended. Nj
Perkins consented to send n cnblc2ram
on July So to the purport that Mir.
Sohwab and his friends are Interested
in the new shipbuilding plant and
Dt tn no 1rie
horse take as cordial an interest in it
as is consistent
Mr.. Perkins did not recall that Col
McCook told him anything Of the con-
dition Of the French underwriting or
why the recommendation was desired
Mr. Perkins was asked what he knew
of the shipbuilding company at the
time of the sale of the Bethlehem plant
and replied that he knew very little
! about it. but that the contract for the
sale provided that Morgan &, Co. should
I leceive the actual amount OF cash adj
! 9Nancadgfor the Bethlehem company. the
\ S., Coo, GOO stuck being taken in lieu of all
profits ard Interest on the Investment.
Aici'gaf II III Co were also, by this con-
sstra to shaseaa legal opinion on the
/ sSte 4 f4Eatfon of the Shipbuilding Com
1ktly k4ht What information did YOU
II or Moro 6Ss& Go. have of the value of
isthe stock y6nsWere taking in part pay
nent OF of tttsssalue of the plants in
cluded in the Examination AIr. I'M
tclmycr asked.
MI. Perkins rcaNed that so far as he
knew "no Investigation OH this point
was made by MorgMs& CO." but Mr..
J7ntcrnyer was not 7Aatisied with the
word "investigation" and insisted on
an answer in regard to any information
or Knowledge of the shiphuiling plants
ON their Values
Mr.. Perkins insisted that he PERSONAL
" had no knowledge on July 30. when
the cable was sent. of the plants, their
values or ttrir earNiI IS and had 10
concern with the shipbuldin@ tranSac-
ton. nor did he. on August Il, when the
sale OF Bethlehem was closed. have any
such knowledge to give him all idea O.
The value of the securities taken III part
navueat. Asked about Mcssrs. Dress
cr. Nixon and Pam, Mr. Perkins de-
clorcti that he had known them only in
y general way up to the time Of the sale
of bethlehem and that he did not know
thai Pam was representing Schwah
MI, Dresser in asking for the loan was
snoaking as president of the Trust Com
,,a1,y of the Republic. Mr. Perkins ha0
considered but he had not interested
himself in the question of whether thai
trust company was responsible to the
extent of s2.000,000
Mr.. Perkins professed ignorance or
many points. stating THAI the negotiations
had be,a IN the hands OF Mr. steele, an
other of the partaerS
The Paris, Gates & Co. agreement q
August II. 1902. that the sale of the Nor
gan & Schwab stock should rrecede the
sale of the rest. was mentioned by Mr.
Perkins. who said that he had never secl
the agreement. Mr.. Steele had told hin
that there was an agreement hut b.
Perkns) had not discussed il with 9th
ers. nor had he anything to do with it,
negotiation.
]. T. Morgan, he testified. knew nothing
to his knowledge, Of the shipbuilding dea
during its progress. ana was not informed
during his stay in Europe of the ncSotia
tons.
After number of other professions o.
ignorance. Mr.. Perkins was turned ovel
to Mr. Guthrie for cross-eXamination. Mr.