The times. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1890-1903, 1902-01-26
HARTMAN IS HEARD
With GREAT interest
Questioned at Length on
Community of Interest.
COURT ROOM CROWDED
Made no Contest for Control of
Northern Pacific.
BLACK THURSDAY ON 'CHANGE
i,r. Hartman Said His People Bought
Northern Pacific Stock That Was
Lying Loose All Over the Coun-
try aud Prior to Any Sup
posed contest for
Control,
BLACK THURSDAY ON CHANGE.
1Er Associated Press \

CHICAGO, ILL, Jan. 25.--When the
second days inquiry by the Interstate
Commerce Commission into the COM
muuity of interests" combination of ths
great railways of the Northwest opened
to-day, great interest was manifested IN
the testimony. The United States Court
room, where the investigation was held.
was crowded with we'll known railway
men.
E. H. Hartman, who organized the
Southern Pacific-Uniou Pacific oombiua-
ton. and who was Mr.. Hills opponent
in the struggle for the Northern Pact
fic-BurIinGton control, was the hrSt Wit
ness. Mr.. Hartman explained the SUI
called contest" in the New York Stock
Exchange. which resulted in the famous
BLACK Thursday.
II don't think there was any contest.
said Mr. Hartman. Somo OF us-tha
Oregon Short Line people-thouSht 1t
would be advantageous to have an IN
terest in Northern Pacific and purchaser
stock that was lying loose all over TINS
country and E.urope-held by five to severn
thousand persons We made no contest
for the contror of the Northern Pacific
we made purchases of capital stock. we
purchased prior to the supposed contest
and no stock WAS acquired In May
NOT THE CASE
Mr.. Day tried to show that the contest
for Northern Pacific stock was the lore
runner of the panic the Exchange,
but Mr.. Hartman insisted that SUCH "ds'
not the case.
..Some of the stock" he continued, 'we
had bought in market all over the world
Some of this was on the way from these
various markets to be delivered. In tho
meantime the sellers borrowed. =
Questions were then put that indicated
that ..jobbing' had been resorted to in
,i,.h hrnrf ,-ht he.
reply:
The stock was purchased in New York
frtm persons who bought from owners.
Then when re so-called contest came and
the stock was demanded, the sellers found
i. difficult to fulfill their contracts. our
interests in every case gave these persons
ell the time they wanted.
The questions as TO just why Mr.. Ilarr-
| man had disposed of his Nrthern Pacific
holdings, what was lost or made by the
transaction and whether Mr.. Hill fal
made some agreement in case the hold
iugs were sold, brought mrof Mr.. Harrt-
man the response that natural conditions
controlled. He said Mr.. Hill had given
no assurances on any division OF trafti;
and that the motive of the original pur-
chase had been that of preserving to tho
Union Pacific the avenues of traffic open
to it.
Mr.. Hartman insisted that the common
inSs were sold, brought from Mr.. Harri
interest of all systems now affiliated
under thc Northern Securities Company
muSt be considered rather than the So
called Community of interests" He saitt
he was (. member OF the Board of D
rcctcrs of tho Securities Company and
Mr.. Till was its president, bus the COM
bnGtion Gs.t!er shat company affected tho
rates III IoNviss.
ONLY TEMPORARY
Tile question whether the formation ot
the Northern Securities Company anil
.he association of so many roads might
influence rates brought = den.:II.
1T may enable as" s&id Mr.. HSrrnan,
when brought so close together to eIrn-
mate the prevailing dlstrust rs TO tlis
various Lures maintaining traffic rates.
Tie complaint has been of TOO high rates.
We may be abio TO stop the discriminate
ton III rates OF ono skipper against an
other.
He stated shat this. however, need not.
have Decit done III .;uci. o company The
suggestion WIS made 10y the commission
that this c5rlPaI.y might also prevent
reduction of published rates ty conpet-
ing roads lie SAID tic cid rot consilier
the company affordea, u power OF cen
tr;tlzatiou fGr pooling. Other iarSer con-
siticrations than stock holdings, he said.
had Influenced rates
If Dir. Hill and myself owned all tn,
roads, the people would get better rates,
| because OF conditions With g frcer hand
we could better regulate the rates TO ans.
point The prevailing movement of cars.
etc, influence He added that he did
not think competition ever reduced rates
more than temporarily
0lr. Hill was not called on to-day.
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