Santa Fe new Mexican. [volume] (Santa Fe, N.M.) 1898-1951, 1902-01-25
EXPLAINED WALL
STREET PANIC
<. \. Hartman Gives an Inside Story Of the
Famous Black Thursday Last May.
THE INTERSTATE COMMERCE
Both J. j. Mn and {. Y. Hartman Testify Before TIT
Commission Hartman Said That There Realy
Had Been No Contest Over the
Northern Pacific.

Chicago, Jan. 25.--When the second
days inquiry by the interstate COM
merce commission into the community
of interest" combination of the great
railways of the northwest opened to-
day, great interest was manifested in
Jet..es j. Hills testimony. The United
States court room, where the investiga-
ton Is held, was crowded with we'll
known railway men, Possibly, as much
interest centered around e. H. Harri-
man. who organized the Southern-Pa-
cific-Union Pacific combination, and
who was Hills opponent in the strug-
gle for the Northern Pacific-Burlington
control. Hartman was scheduled to
follow Hill on the stand. Other prom
inent railway men present were c. S.
Mellen president of the Northern Pa
cific, and George B. Harris, president
of the Burlington.
Mr.. Hartman was the first witness.
The line of questioning by W. A. Day,
counsel for the commission, led up to
a statement of the great Wall street
panic last May when Northern Pacific
stock went UP to $1,000 share. 1t was
developed that all this Northern Pacific
stock, which was held in the names of
r. H. Hartman and Winslow Pierce,
was sold last summer. An effort was
made to learn why the purchase had
been made only to sell again, and this
brought from Hartman the statement
that he was glad to explain the So
called contest in the New York stock
exchange which resulted in the famous
"Black Thursday"
IT don't think there was any contest"
said Hartman. "Some of us-the Ore
gon Short Line people-thought it
would be advantageous to have an in
terest in the Northern Pacific, and we
purchased the stock lying loose all over
this country and Europe, and held by
5000 to 1000 persons. We made no con-
test for the control of the Northern
Pacific. We purchased the majority Of
the capital stock. We purchased prior
to the supposed contest, and no stock
was acquired during the panic in May"
Day tried to show that the contest for
the Northern Pacific stock was n fore
runner of the panic, but Hartman in
sisted that such was not the case. Ar
attempt was made by the commission
to draw out statements to the effect
IL oF nif
stock by the Oregon Short Line, as
controlled by the Union Pacific-South-
ern Pacific syndicate, was only after
an understanding or truce with Hill
and the supposed interests that COM
bated for the Northern Pacific in the
panic.
Hartman said that after the pur-
chase was made he and his colleagues
thought the matter over again, an6
concluded to sell again. He implied II
made no difference really who owned
the Northern Pacific.
He said he did not know Of any gair
made except that his interests fount
out they were strong enough to holt
their own in the Pacific traffic. HI
said his impression was that the Ore
gon Short Line had not lost by thu
transfer. He said Hill had been givel
no assurances of any division of traf
fic, and the motive of the origina
purchase had been that Of preserving
to the Union Pacific system the ave
nues Of traffic open to it.
"You wish to represent that no one o
the other half of the Northern Pacifi
interests made any promise in the con
troll
Hartman replied: There is com
mon interest among us all, and we be
lieye that that common interest will b
served regardless Of the holdings. Tha
common interest can be served by nat
ural conditions. Our interests are SO l
common that we cannot iniure other
without injuring ourselves"
Hartman insisted that the commo
interest of all the systems now aff1lia
ted under the Northern Securities Com
pany must be considered rather tina
the so-called Community of interests,
The question that the formation
the Northern Securities Company an
the association of so many roads migf
influence rates, brought q denial.
"If Hill or myself owned all the road
people would get better rates." he sal
He did not think that competition r.
duced rates more than temporarily.
At the conclusion Of his testimon
Hartman and Hill took a special ira
for New York.
George B. Harris, president of Il
old and new Burlington Companie
then testified. 1t was the hope of Il
new company, he said, to reduce rate
but such reduction would follow on
natural conditions.
Charles s. Mellen. president OF 7
Northern Pacific, said there were
agreements between the Northern F
cif1c and either the Great Norther
Union Pacific or Canadian Pacific roa
on allotment of traffic or differentia
The Northern P4eific was Just as ind
pendent in it's management Of affa'
as before January 1, 1902. and the
have been no orders or suggestions
to the management from the Nortne
Securities Company or any of its dire
tors. The commission adjourned un
Wednesday.
The Trial Of Albert T. Patrick.
u.i. Tnn s-Thara was