davidaulloa/AmericanStories huggingface dataset:
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
YOUNG SCHEDULE READY
UNCLE NICK HAS FURNISHED CON
SENTATIVE LIST OF DATES.

CHICAGO, March 15-Judging from the
schedule which he framed up during his
winter winter soJourn among the everglades of
Florida, the city of Chicago still looks
good to Nick Young. The ex-president
OF the National league has given the
lucKless orphans a choice lot Of dates,
ana from financial point of view
plain. ~
There is a typewritten copy of Mr..
young latest important contribution to
baseball literature in Chicago. and a
caretuI perusal of the precious document
reveals the fact that the West side
team has an excellent assortment Of
oates. The team will open the season
away from home and begin the serious
work of trying to win the championsh
Dy playing a four-game series with the
Clnclnnati Reds. From Cincinnati the
team will travel to Pittsburg, and after
completing their work in the city of
smoke and millionaires the members of
the local aggregation will wind up their
inaugural trip of the season by playing
a series Of games in St. Louis.
They will open on their home grounds
on the West side Cn May 10 with the
Pittsburg champions for their opponents.
turn.
AS regards the big holiday assignments,
the Orphans have no cause to complain
They will be in Pittsburg ON Decoration
day and in New York on July 4. The
choice Sunday dates are also assigned to
Chicago.
This schedule, on which Nick Young
has devoted so much time and thought,
looks good, and will be adopted by the
club owners at their coming meeting
IL IS bullt on conservative lines, and
W. WIN t.,l,oI1t the ldea of promoting peace and
harmony: AS far as possible, there will
be no cIashing of home dates between
the rival teams in Chicago, St Louis,
Ph1ladelphia and Boston. 1t is a good
Schedule, and after few minor change S
are made it will be accepted and ado0t-
ed by the club owners.
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16

tempt. He got the lock, but was too far
forward to make it good and after some
SOU lming, they both got to their feet.
The Turk lost his temper and rushed for
Rooney, but the giant was as cool as ice
and beat the Turk at his own game, pick
ing the Oriental up and throwing him to
the floor The Turk LANDED on his knees
with a swatting thud. The Turk got
half nelson on the gripman but he spun
cut of it cleverly with the Turk on top
trying to get a hammer lock. He got it,
but couldn't make it work. lie then re-
sorted to a half nelson, but again Rooney
broke it. The Turk was getting desperate
by this time and was badly Winded AS
a last resort he tried for a strangle hold
but Rooney sat down. Rooney tken gave
an exhibition of strength by rising to his
feet with the Turk on his back. He then
broke free and slammed the Turk to the
mat, securing a hammer lock in the fall
He showed the Turk along on his face
to the edge of the mat and stopped for
the Turk to give in. The man from
Turkey was silent and Rooney began
working his arm like a grip. The Turk S
face wrinkled with pain and his free hand
clutched the mat convulsively, but
Rooney was merciless.
Shall / do it?" Rooney inquired. Of
Capt. Whitemore, knowing that he could
The referee shook his head and stopped
over the Turk, asking him If he had
enough. The Turk managed to Indicate
that he had a great sufficiency and
Rooney released his hold and went to his
corner
1t took the Turk few seconds to move
and then his arm remained coiled up be-
hind his back When he did get to ris
feet he got into his sweater with some
No. 2 Had IA Sore Arm.
There was a ten-minute intermission
and at the end Of that time Rooney
marched onto the mat evidently as fresh
as ever. The Turk failed to appear, how
ever, and the crowd bgan to scent that
lie had quit. HoOts, cat calls and all
vocal evidences of disapprobation were
generously bestowed upon No. in par
ticular, and tie entire dominion Of the
sultan in general. Rooney did not leave
the ring until the greater number of the
spectators had quilted their seats.
Seen in his dressing room he said:.
~ would sooner lose a match tnan have
one turn out in this fashion and that is
one reason why 1 don't like to wrestle
with any person but white man. Most
of the other KIND are cutters of the wtorst
sort"
The preliminary match was between
Henry Robinson, a South ST. Paul sheep
shearer, and the Young Turk who was
bald headed. The men. wrestled forty
minutes each securing fall. Robinson
was in no condition whatever, and in view
OF that fact the showing he made against
the Turk was good. He got half nelson
crotch on the Turk in 1912 minutes and
got three points down. The Turk got a
half nelson on Robinson in minutes and
threw him with little difficulty. During
the tweIve minutes which remained the
Turk worked hard to get a fall, but the
sheep shearer was clever enough to block
every hold. Inc match ended with the
Turk on top.
Capt. Whitmore read the following
challenge before the Rooney-Turk match:
Chicago, March 5.-Sporting Editor St.
Paul G o e: Challenge winner of Ter
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
WANT TO EXHIBIT TERRY.
McGOvern Is offered Place on Cor
Onaticn Boxing Programme.

NEW YORK March 15.-The profess
sonal boxing programme of the National
Sporting Club of London for H.; pro-
posed athletic carnival is almost com
plete
A twenty-round go between Tommy
Ryan and George Gardiner, of E0weil,
was added to the list of bouts today.
Afterward Ordway met by appointment
Ed Homan, Gardeners manager, eNl the
latter promised to post forfeit tomor-
row.
Messrs Lea and Gavin had a = II to-
night from Sam Harris, manager O. Ter
ry McGovern, and the chances are that
the Brooklyn boxer will be seen for the
first time in an English ring. Harris was
asked by DR.. Ordway whether McGovern
would go abroad, and in reply assured
the promoters from England that Terry
would take the trip, provided t.5 could
arrange matters satisfactorily.
McGovern and Young Corbett are prac-
ticaily matched to box for. the leather
weight title. and the mill, according to
Harris, viii take place in America five
weeks after the signing Of articles of
agreement. This is to be done, Harris
says. on April IS, at. Cincinnati.
If he can defer the date of the combat
unril next fall, Harris declares that Nc
Govern will surely travel to England. IL
the contest is ratified, McGovern will be
asked to clash with Ben Jordan
It seems likely that Bob Armstrong and
Denver Ed Martin will also come to-
getheI during the British carnival
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
BAN JOHNSON is WARNED
GIANT MANAGEMENT PROMISES
TROUBLE If TAYLOR is TAKEN.

NEW YORK. March 15-If Manager
Horace FOgel of the New York club,
speaks with authority his team will be
materially strengthened in case of Pitcher
Luther Taylor jumps to the Cleveland
club Of the American league as reported
Fogel has served formal notice on Presi-
dent Ban johnson that if he countenanccs
Taylor's contract jumping the New York
club will Immediately offer inducements
large enough to cause at least three or
four of the American league stars to
Jump their contracts and join the New
York club
Fogel is reported to have sent Johnson
telegram in which he says:
Two can play at that game, and much
as l detest warfare of that kind | will
not let anyone hit me in the face without
striking back. and the New York club
can better afford to offer sufficient in
ducements to players to jump contracts
than large majority, if not in fact. all
of the clubs in your league can do. Iii
promise to take two or three of your stars
for evSry one of my players, under con-
tract your league entices away from
me-"
Fogel is quoted as saying that one or
the American leagues star pitchers has
for two weeks been almost begging to
sign with New York, and there are 9TH
ers anxious to come to this city.
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
WINFIELD WINS DERBY
FAVORITE IN BIG NEW ORLEANS
EVENT BEATEN IN STRETCH

NEW ORLEANS, March Is. - Nearly
1900 people cheered the faVorite on to
victory in the sixth Crescent City Derby
TO-DAY. A morning threat of rain and a
track whose conditions seemed to presage
the defeat of the Simons colt cut the at
tendance down. Kaftir, generally regard
ed as the principal contender, developed
but lukewarm support, his price length
ening from to to 13 to s. Merry Max
er, who was falsely credited with an ex-
cellent chance in the mud, was backed
from tens to fours. The race was worth
$500 to the winner.
OF the other favOrites Ida Ledford was
the only one beaten. Results:
First race, six furlongS-BraW Lad 1I2
Odom TO 8, won Ida Penzance, los,
Helgeson. to /, second; Tenderloln, 109,
Landry, to J, third. Time, LIS. Palarm.
Coreel, Aaron, Money Back, Beggar Lady,
Brightie B, Ante-Up, Jim w and Torra-
line also ran.
Second race five furlongs-Luralighte
1872 Lindsey to TO- Won Little tedS Giant Iot
Eelgeson, to 10, third. Time, 1905 Liz
zie Brooks ana Examiner also ran.
Third race, selling mile and seventy
won; Banila, 100, doom, II to 5, second;
Chickadee "a, Munro, Is to l, third. Time,
1:49A. DR.. Carrick, Algie NJ, Bean, Pinar
del Rio, Moroni and Lord Howard also
Fourth race, Crescent City Derby, mile
and an eightl:-Lord Quex. 122, j. Wink
field, 13 to 10, won; Vassaldance. no. Otis.
i, tird. Time, 2:O6A St Tammany,
KaftiTr. Duke of Connaught, Cast Iron
and Merry Maker ran.
Fifth race, handicap, mile and a six
teenth-Digby Bell, 81. w. Waldo, Z to /,
won; Ida Ledford, 95, Lindsey, s to 5,
second; Jessie Jarboe 10O Lyme, to /,
third. Time, 1:521a. Eva Rice and Lofter
ran.
Sixth race, handicap, six furlongs-
Death. 12. Slack, to 2, won; Ben HUI
lunl, 80, W. Waldo, s to 1, second; Velma
Clark, 100. Lyme, to /, third. Time,
1:171a. Bob Baker and Divonne ran.
Seventh race, selling, mile and a half
Lou Rey. Ill, Odom, even, won; Little
Tommy Tucker, 9S, Lindsey, to l. Sec
ond; Woodtrice. 100, Minder, to 1, thir6.
| Time, 2:43. Major Mansir, Reflect, Ava
tar, Jackanapes, Joe Doughty and Prince
Zeno ran.
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
ROONEY THE WINNER
TERRIBLE TURK REFUSED TO GO
ON AFTER LOSING ONE
FALL
GRIPMAN TWISTED HIS ARM
Crack Chicago WrestIer's Hammer
LG~k Proved Too Much for the
Busky OttOman-CrOwd Got
Its Moneys Worth.

Rooney, the Giant Gripman got a ham
mer lock on the Terrible Turk No. 2,
after l412 minutes wrestling at the Audi
torium last night, and secured the first
fall. The Turk was so badly injured that
he refused to meet Rooney again. to the
great disgust of the big Irishman.
When Capt. Whitmore made the an
nouncement that the Turk refused to 90
on, there were Kisses and cries from all
sides Of the building Rooney jumped
from his chair in the corner and motioned
for silence.
Bring on both Turks, and I'll throw
them both in twenty minutes, the big
stiffs. They're all cutters"
This was Rooney's speech and it was
enough to satisfy the 600 sports who
braved the weather last night for ,-.e
purpose of helping to build the Coliseum
for St. Paul.
In the dressing room after the match,
Hermann Smith, Of this city. offered to
match an unknown white man against
Rooney, and Rooney accepted the chal-
lenge. The articles of agreement will be
signed at l o'clock this afternoon. 1t is
contemplated pulling off the match next
Friday night. 1t will be under the
auspices of the Coliseum fund.
w nile Rooney and the Turk We're on
for less than a quarter of an nour it
was all fast wrestling. Rooney was up
to every trick of the game, appearing to
have the Turk on the defense ana in an
apprehensive frame of mind all the time.
The Turk, while not showing up so large
as Rooney, is a muscular representative
of the Ottoman country, and was in a
more athletic condition. Rooney used the
Turk roughly all the time and as no
holds were barred, he paid no attention
TO any but the worst.
The men got on the mat at 1929, and
after some preliminary neck pull Rooney
tried for a strangle hold on the Lurk,
but No. broke. Rooney tried the same
trick again, but the Turk was too clever,
and they both went to the mat with the
Turk on top. The Turk tried squeezing
ROoney's stomach, and went for a full
Nelson. Rooney spun over and got on
top.
Rooney ROuEhed 1t Some.
Not at all pleased with the boa con-
strictOr tactics Of the unspeakable,
Rooney started in to rough it. He knelt
down upon the Turks head and drove his
nose into the mat and worried him for a
couple of Rinutes.
Rooney then tried for the scissor lock,
jumping on the Turks finger in the at
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16

ed here tonight Billy Delaney represent
ed Jeffries at the opening. number Of
local clubs submitted bids. The only
outside club to put in a bid was the Cen
tury club of Los Angeles. The bids. with
the exception Of the Los Angeles club,
offered only q straight percentage Of the
gross receipts. The Los Angeles club
submitted three propositions: purse
Of $4,000 70 per cent Of the gross receipts
with a guaranty Of $4,000 and rs per
cent of the receipts. The local bids fol-
low: National Athletic club, 50 per cent;
Yosemite Athletic club, 66 2-3 per cent;
San Francisco. 70 per cent; twentieth
Century, 50 pe~ cent; Bay City. 621z per
cent to the principals and - per cent
to chan Hayes Valley, rs per cent.
Delaney announced that the different
bids would be considered by Jeffries and
Fftzsimmons, who would probably re-
quire some time to determine which is
the best offer
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
FIGHT BIDS ARE OPENED
TWENTIETH CENTURY CLUB OF
FERS BEST PURSE FOR MATCH.

NEW YORK, March 15.-Bids for the
Jeffries- -Fftzsimmons battle for the hea-
vyWelght championship of the world,
which is to take place about the 18th
OF next May, were opened here today in
the presence of Fitzsimmons. Jeffries is
in California
There were three offers from the Yo-
semitic San Francisco and twentieth
Century clubs, all Of San Francisco. The
Yosemite offered 66 2-3 per cent of the
gross receipts, the San Francisco 70 per
cent and the Twentieth Century so per
cent.
All of these clubs stated that they
were ready to post forfeits. F'itzsim-
mons said he would like to talk with
Jetfr1es by telegraph concerning the bids
and an arrangement was made for him
to do so.
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
"Nothing here that's
ETeryichere eLSe."

My ''drummed-sweat" So. 90
Hats = fit instantly = any
shaped head that's the sound
of a voice, not an echo. I"
Monte Carlo came yesterday
swell shapes-suit any face
s-and a dollar saved-ditto
''Togeery shop"
Hotel Ryan.
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
SABIN STILL LEADING.
Eight Games Played Yesterday in
Commercial Club Tourney.

Eight games were played yesterday in
the Commercial club billiard tournament,
McCandless, 80; Blood, so, Onet, 55;
Stock, SO, Wharry, 80: Jewett 60, Blood,
so; Onet, 70, Jewett, 62; Black, $50, Jones,
73; Pruden, 50, Somers, ~; Lyon, ~;
Jones, 80.
The standing of the players, games
won and lost, is as follows:
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16

the race ended he was eighteen miles
ahead Of Fahey, his nearest competitor.
One-half of the gate receipts for the week
will be divided as follows:
Thirty-1ve per cent to the winner, % per
cent to the second man, 15 per cent to the
third, 10 per cent to the fourth, s per cent
to the fifth. per cent to the sixth, four
per cent to the seventh and per cent to
the eighth
The scores Of the first eight men were:
Cavanaugh, 1922 miles: Fahey bl4;
Tracy, sos; Click, sol; Day, 5002; Barnes,
447; Hart, 40613; Nolen 401.
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
MULLIN TELLS HIS SIDE.
Abused Pitcher Declares He Is No
Contract Jumper.

WABASH, Ind, March 15-GeMsa =
Mullin, the baseball pitcher o. tes city,
VINO promises to become as much of a
bone of contention among major league
magnates as Amos Rusie, called Pres
ident Mautner, Of the Fort Wayne team.
to task for the story printed ir Chicago
st. Louis and Cincinnati newspapers
that Mullin had jumped his contact
with Fort Wayne; that he had been re-
served and had accepted advance money
from Mautner and that the latt "a had
an affidavit of Mullin that lie at the
close Of last season was unler no con-
tract. verbal or otherwise, with any
Mautner denies that he paid advance
money to Mullin, or that he has any held
on Mullin. who is under contract with
Brcoklyn, which team he joins next week.
Mulhn says that if there be any legal
objection to his playing with BrooIziyn
ne wants to know it now, and will pav
any reasonable price for his release. Ills
contract with Brooklyn calls for $250 a
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
FIGHTERS MAY MEET AGAIN.
Forbes and Feltz May Clash for
Bantamwefght Championship.

for a second battle between Harry
Forbes and Tommy Feltz for the bantam
weight championship are now in progress
between Mcbride, manager of FeltZ, and
Col. j. D. Hopkins, manager of Forbes.
The hackers of the two men are by no
means satisfied with the result of the
f1fteen-round battle between the men a
short time ago, and are anxious to set
tie the question of superiority in a
longer combat. The match, when con-
Guided, will be a twenty or twenty five
round affair. The date and conditions
of the match are expected to be con-
Guided within a few days.
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
Detroit Driving Club Meet.

DETROIT. Mich. March 15-Entries
for the early closing events Of the Detroit
Driving clubs annual trotting meeting
in July close next Monday, March II.
Entries aready received indicate that the
meeting wi be as high cass as in former
years. Included in the early closing
events are the classic Merchants and
Manufacturers stake Of $4,000 for PA
class trotTA@, and the Chamber Of Com
merce stake Of 5000 for 2:24 - IS PAGERS.
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
FIRST CONFERENCE HELD.
yale and Harvard Representatives
Meet and Discuss Athletic Matters

NEW HAVEN. Conn, March 15.-Tae
hrst OF a series of conferences between
representatives of Yale and of Harvard
70 arrange an agreement on athletic mat
tefs was held today. The Harvard reD-
reSentatiyes are Prof. Hollis j J. St2r-
row ana W. p. Ladd, while the Yale men
a;e Walter Camp, r. g. Guernsey ard
charles Gould. Their meeting Wa Of a
secret nature, but before ii began the
statement was made that today'E+ talk
WCuld probably be in relation 10 a gen
eraI athletic agreement, and tEat at
IateE sessions definite arrangements .e-
garclng the various intercollegiate sports
would be discussed. =
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
CHESS CONTEST DRAWS CROWN
Great Interest Taken in the Inter
national Cable Tournament

LONDON. March 15-The innovation Of
playing across the board a novelty in
International chess contests, drew con-
siderable crowd of British and Ameri-
CLUB: of Conico, this afternoon. when
paying began in the second day Of the
seventh annual cable contest between
Teams representing Great Britain ami the
united states. The Pillsbury- Lawrence
board which was advanta geouslv placed
close to the spectators, was the center Of
attraction The Marshall-Atkins game
was of almost equal interest.
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
o,Rrien to Meet Rxnn.

NEW YORK, March 15-"Jack''
O'Brien, of Philadelphia, champion mid
dleweight and heavyweight pugllist of
England, today signed articles of agree
ment to meet Tommy" Ryan for the
middleweight championship Of the world.
The men will fight before the Southern
Athletic club of Louisville, on NAV 8.
weight to be 16S pounds at ringsids,
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
BEAT THE BRITISH
AMERICANS WIN THE SEVENTH
ANNUAL INTERNATIONAL
CHESS MATCH
ENGLAND LED AT THE START
COIOrs of Marshall Were Lowered
by the Amateur Atkins and
Pillsbury Drew His
Game.

NEW YORK, March 15.-After two
days of hard fighting the American
chess team Vanquished the British team
tonight, this being the seventh of the in
terDatiOnal matches for the Newnes cup.
America won five and one-half games,
and Great Britain four and one-half. The
distinction of achieving the first victory
fell to the Englishmen by virtue Of Tren-
chard's brilliant defeat of Delmar on
board Z. Almost simultaneously came
the news that the amateur, Atkins, had
lowered the colors of Marshall This
was hard blow, as the Brooklyn Chess
club had relied upon Marshall and Pills
hLry winning their respective games. At
that time the outlook was that the match
would be lost. Hymes was then in diff
fculty and Voigt appeared to be beaten.
The former, however, soon eXtricated
himself, and proposed a draw, which
Mills accepted. Voigt also redeemed
himself, the game being eventually
drawn.
Tor i long time afterwards the score
remained at to l III favor of England.
the solitary win for the American side
having ECen achieved later on the last
beard by Helms. Pilisbury was unable
to make any headway against Lawrence.
and had to be finally satisfied with a
draw. Barry made a great effort to win
but could not do So and finally accept
ed the offered draw. After the agreement
of the contendng parties the remaining
games ended Us stated, and the victory
belonged 20 the Americans.
The summary Of the match follows:
Pairings and Results
America Britain Openings.
Pillsbury. 4 Lawrence. II Ruy Lopez.
Barry. -. !a Mason -. q Eng. opening
Marshall 20 Atkins ....1 @ e declined.
Hodges IL Lee .......o @ g declined.
Hymes 49,. Il Mills ...... = Sicilian def
Voigt 49,. y Bellham.. u Q G declined.
Delmar 20 Trench'd. l Dutch def.
Newman. q Blake 49,. u Ruy Lopez.
Howell IL Mitchell % Ruy Lopez.
Helms IL Gird' stoned @ p opening
Total ...512l Total ...412
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
Goodman on the warpath

CHICAGO, March 15-Abe Goodman.
the speedy little Boston bantamweight
who lost a decision to Harry Forbes at
the Pyramid club Thursday night. Is out
on the warpath. Last night AL Dough-
erty. his manager, posted a forfeit OF slCO
in support Of a challenge TO Forbes for
a longer fight.
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16

rible Turk Rooney match for $500 or 81, 600
purse. Charles Norbeck
Rooney accepted the challenge, but Will
not wrestle Norbeck until he has met
Smiths unknown in this city next Fri
day night.
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
WANT UMPIRES TO JUMP.
Sheridan and CantiIIOn Receive Of
fers From National.

CHICAGO, March 15.-Umpires Sheridan
and Cantillon, of the American league
staff. have received tempting offers 70
jump to the National league. 1t is doubt
full if either Of these men, who beyond
dispute, are the two best umpires in the
business, will call balls and strikes In
any league during the coming season.
Sheridan has a chance to break into the
passenger department Of a big Western
railroad system, and Cantillon m@ de-
vote all his time to a new business ven
ture in which he is financially interested.
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
MrKIBBoN AFTER PLAYERS.
Manager of ST. Joseph Team Search.
ing for Fast Talent.

CHICAGO, March 15.-Manager Nc
Ribbon, of the ST. Joseph team. in the
Western league, is in the city, looking
after the interests Of President Whit
fields . ganization here. He has signed
Walter Hickey, of last seasons Denver
team, for the league, and has opened
negotiations with several other playeS&
who are about the city. 'McKibbon IS
securing players for the league as a
whole, without reference to any particular
club. The division of the men will be
made by the magnates after he gAts
them under contract
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
CAvANAUGH GETS THE MONEY.
Wins Walking Match Eichteen
Miles Ahead of SECOND N.n

PHILADELPHIA. March 15.-Tba sly
days walking match ended at 1890 o'clock
tonight with seventeen of the seyanfH
starters g;1i at the finish. Of these only eight
augh, of Trenton, N. J.. who tooI an
lead at the start, maintained his ado
vantage until the end, and although he
retlred from the track early tonight when
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
SEXTON NAMES TWO UMPIREs.
Jack Brennan and POpkay VIII
work In Three Eyes' League.

DAVENPORT Iowa. March 1.-Presi-
dent Sexton, of the Three l" league,
has received a majority of votes in fa-
vor of the new schedule, assuring its
adoption. He has signed as umpires
Black Brennan, of st. Louis, known as
1.-The strong man." Leo Mesmer, of Mo-
line, and F. w. Popkay, of Detroit.
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
Opened in Frisco Also.

SAN FRANCISCO, March 15.-Bids for
the Jeffries Fitzsimmons fight were open
The Saint Paul globe., 1902-03-16
no s ~ !!
Tailor Made Clothes

this result is assured. At our prices, $4,000
to $50. 90 for Suits or Overcoats to order,
there is no reason why 90 per cent of the
clothes worn in this city should be made in
Eastern factories and sweatshops. This is
plain talk, but it is