The Saint Paul globe. (St. Paul, Minn.) 1896-1905, 1902-10-21

myself and friends held at that time, and
what Morgan & Co. held, we would have
somewhere oa lew in the neighborhood Of $685.
total of $155,000,O0O, which was larger
than is usually held in any of the large
companies. did not think at the time
mat IT was at all likely that anybody
control of $155. 600, 900 Of Stock.
O., At the time in April Mr.. Hill, how
much common stock did you and your
immediate I'm, associates hold in the North
A. should think on the list Of April
mat is. however, an estimate, and !
think reasonably close one.
o. Is that common stock?
A. Common stock.
9; And about how much Of that was
neid on the 21st Of April?
all held then: I know that on the Sth of
May. after there had been a struggle, or
we Will say up to the Sd Of May, after
prices had been put up to above par, ITO
that there was an attempt to buy the
Northern Pacific, sent word to a few of
my associates who were large stockhold-
ers, and they sold no more of their stock
from that time. Some of them had parted
with large amounts of the stock. know
that Morgan & Company. for fund they
had labout million and a half on the
20 of May sold over a million dollars.
OF the stock. They thought that the mar
ket price was quite high and did not be-
ileve that anybody was trying to raid
the property.
@. In your statement as to the hold
ings on the LIST of April, putting it, I
think, at $35, 600, 600. did you include the
holding of Morgan & Company?
Hated to Sell Stock.
A. No, sir. recollect one gentleman
who think held three and half mill
ms b. ~
ceived a telegram from me. He said he
would rather have burned it than to have
sold 1t. There were others who held
large amounts, and when l speak of large
amounts | mean anywhere from $3.50, 900
up to 81, coo, 900 or SO, DOC 900.
T. What was the purpose of the pur-
chase of the Burlington company. and
after the very large purchases of North
ern Pacific stock made in the Union Pa
cific interests, what was the purpose after
that time Of you gentlemen who promoted
the Northern Securities company in form
ing that company and putting into it
majority Of the stock of the Northern
Pacific company?
Wanted to Be Free From Raids.
A. Were particularly anxious to put
majority Of that stock where it could not
be raided again as it had been. We
wanted to put 1t In a corporation that was
would hold it as an investment, and the
larger the company the more difficult it
would be to secure majority of it. Then,
again, a reason why we. preferred an in
think l may say almost entirely, are
drawn or granted on terms that do not
permit railroad companies to buy the
shares or own the shares of inves TIM nt
certain conditions, can buy the shares of
other railways, as means Of conSolida-
ton, or they might buy the shares of a
road that they would otherwise build.
a hof VIC yxynl1 hn -0f ar
with the shares held by an investment
company, the stock of which could only
be held by individuals or by corporations
that were not railway companies, and to
such raids by interests that were anxious
to destroy or restrict the growth of this
country, such raids as had been made by
the Union Pacific interests, so-called.
Q. What injury did you consider was
likely to result to the stockholders of the
Great Northern Company or the stock
holders of the Northern Pacific company:
or to those corporations, If a majority of
the stock of the Northern Pacific or a
controlling interest in that company
should be obtained by hostile railway
interest?
A. With the Northern Pacific as half
owner in the shares of the Burlington and
responsibility for one-half Of the purchase
price Of these shares, the transfers OF the
shares Of the Northern Pacific or the con-
troll of the Northern Pacific to an interest
that was adverse or an interest that had
greater investments in other directions,
the control being in the hands of COM
by the growth and development Of this
country, would. of courses put the Great
Northern In position where 1t would be
almost helpless, because we would be, as
it were, fenced out of the territory south
which produces the tonnage. we want to
take west and consumes the tonnage
we want to bring east, and the Great
Northern would be in a position where
+xro1 off h9 tO a fight
either survive or perish, or else sell out
to the other interests. The latter would
be the most business-like proceeding.
@. What would be the effect of such
an acquisition by a hostile interest on the
minority shareholders in the Northern
Pacific?
control of the Northern Pacific interest in
the hands Of people hostile to its growth.
Q. Was there any other motive. Mr..
HILL in having the Northern Securities
of the Northern Pacific company-was
there any other motive in that than the
intention to defend and protect the In
terests Of the stockholders and this en-
terprise which you had undertaken?
A. The object and the intent was to de-
fend the property that otherwise would be
destroyed, both of the Northern Pacific
and the Great Northern. When say de-
the main plan would be destroyed; there
would be something left but the prop
erty would be incapacitated from doing
what it was intended to do and what 1t
was quite able to do.
O. Was there any intention or purpose
on your part or on the part of anyone else,
so far as you know, in forming the North
ern Securities company, to restrain trade
or commerce among the states or with
foreign nations, or at all?
A. There was absolutely none whatev-
er, and that view Of the case never oc-
Cured to us; on the contrary it was con-
afJu in Ind ms
to be the most effective way of develop
ing and increasing commerce between the
states and international commerce.
Q. Mr.. Hill, at the time of the forma-
ton of the Northern Securities company
or in the planning or making of it, did
you have any intention or purpose of de-
stroying or lessening the competition be-
tween the Northern Pacific and the Great
Northern Railway companies or did any
of the other persons or companies have
any such intention. so far as you know?
Mo Idea of Lessenina Competition.
A. The idea never occurred to me, and
never heard it discussed-and all mat
tiers in connection with the transaction
never heard that attitude of 1t presented.
@. In point Of fact has the formation
of the Northern Securities company caused
or resulted in any lessening of competi--
Northern Pacific Railway companies?
A. don't know that it has affected
it in the least. Take the interstate bust
ness of the two roads. the Northern Pa
ciffc and the Great Northern. from one
end to the other and there is very little
of that business that could be affected by
the two companies in any way without
the cooperation of other companies. The
amount of business is very small that is
not affected directly by various carriers
and conditions. So that if the Northern
Pacific and the Great Northern should
set their minds and exercise all the in
f.
feet the business. I am quite sure that
they could not affect 10 per cent of it.
think it would be very much less
than that. But I am quite sure they
could not affect in any way 10 per cent
of 1t.
O As a matter Of fact. Mr. Hill. has