The news & observer. [volume] (Raleigh, N.C.) 1894-current, 1902-01-26
so SAYS Mr. HARTMAN
Inquiry Into the Community of In
terest Combinations.
RAILROAD MEN CROWD THE COURTROOM
Hartman Explains the So.CaIled Contest on The
New York Stock Exchange Which
Resulted In The Famous
''BIack Thursday"
(By the Associated Press.)


Chicago. Jan. 25.-When the second
days inquiry by the Interstate Com
mission into the community of interest
combination of the great railways of the
Northwest opened today great interest
was manifested in the testimony The
United States court ROOM where the in
vestigation was held. was crowded with
well known railay men.
E. H. Hartman, who organized the
Southern Pacific Union Pacific corpora
ton, and who was Mr.. Hills opponent
in the struggle for the Northern Pacific
Burlington control. was the first witness.
Mr.. Hartman eXplaine dthe so-called
contest" in the New York Stock Ex-
change which resulted in the famous
"black Thursday"
II don't think there was any contest"
said Mr.. Hartman. Some of us-the
Oregon short line people-thought it
would be advantageous to have an in
terest in the Northern Pacific and pur-
chased stock that was lying loose all
over this country and Europe-held by
five to seven thousand persons. We
made no contest for the control of the
Northern Paclfc-we made purchases of
capital stock. We purchased prior to
the supposed contest and no stock was
acquired in May
Mr.. Day tried to show that the contest
for Northern Pacific stock was the fore y
runner of the panic on the exchange, but
Mr.. Hartman insisted that such was not
the case.
Some of the stock he continued, I'VE
had bought in markets all over the world.
Some of this was on the way from these
various markets to be delivered. In the
meantime the sellers borrowed"
Questions We're then put that indi-
Gated "iobbing' had been resorted to
in the purchase. and which brought the
reply:
THE stock was purchased in New
y FORK from persons who bought from the
owners. Then when the so-called con-
test came and the stock was demanded,
the sellers found it difficult to fulfill the
contracts. Our interests in every case
gave these persons all the time they
wanted"
The questions as to just why Mr.. Har-
riman had disposed of his Northern Pa
cifc holdings, what was lost or made by
the transaction and whether Mr.. Hill
had made some agreement in case the
holdings were sold, brought from Mr..
Hartman the response that natural con-
d;tions controlled. He said Mr.. Hill had
given no assurances of any division of
lIaffic and that the motive of the or
iginaI purchase had been that of pre-
Sc rving to the Union Pacific system the
avenues of ira ffic omen to il.
Mr.. Hartman insisted that the COM
mon interest of all systems now aifil-
lated under the Northern Securities Com
pany must be considered rather than the
so-callcd community of interests" He
said he was a member of the board of
directors of the securities company and
Mr.. Hill was its president but the COM
bination under the company affected
| rates in no wise
The question of the formation of the
Northern Securities Coan and the asso-
| oiation of so many roads might influence
| rates brought a denial.
"It may enable us" said Mr. Harri-
| man. when brought so close together,
| to eliminate the prevailing distrust as to
| the various lines maintaining traffic
| rates. The complaint has been of too
| high rates-we may be able to stop the
| discrimination in rates of one shipper
| against another"
He stated that this, however need not
| have been done in such a company. The
| suggestion was made by the commission
! that this company might also prevent re-
| duction of published rates by competing
reads. He did not consider the company
| afforded a power OF concentration for
| pooling. Other larger considerations than
| stockhOldings. he held, influenced rates
'If Mr. Hill or myself, owned all tn
| roads the people would get better rate
because of conditions. With free
hand we could the better regulate TIL
rates to any point. The prevailing move
ment of cars. etc. influence.
| He added that he did not think com
petition ever reduced rates more thai
| temporarily.
| Mr.. Hill was not called on tOcay
A report has reached Panama tnat to