Warren sheaf. [volume] (Warren, Marshall County, Minn.) 1880-current, 1902-11-06


many inquiries that finally he prepared q
circular letter as an answer, in which he
explained that the Northern Securities
company did not operate and could not
operate railroad, but could only buy
and sell shares Of railroads, and the value
of its stocks dependent upon the profit
made by the railroads the stocks of which
the Northern Securities company might
acquire.
He left each inquirer to act his own
pleasure without giving advice.
The Second pay.
On the second day Of Mr. Hills testi-
mony he was cross examined by the at
torneys for the government. It was de-
veloped by his testimony that Hartman
who represents the Union Pacific's inter-
ests is the largest individual stakeholder
in the Northern Securities company.
This came about by the large purchase of
Northern Pacific stock by the Union Pa
cifc made during the raid in May, 1901
in response. to questions Mr.. Hill said
there was nothing to prevent Mr. Harri-
man from buying more stock Of the
Northern Securities company, if he was
willing to pay the price asked for it by the
owners. He might even buy enough to
have control, but he, Hill, did not think
the owners would be likely to sell it, and
so that though he now has some eighty
or ninety millions Of the four hundred
millions Of stock, he did not consider it
likely he would ever have control
He explained that the organiza ton of
the Northern Securities company was to
prevent any such raids as were made in
1901 and would make it very difficult even
if not substantially impossible for any one
person or syndicate to get control of the
stock Of the roads in the hands of the
holding company. By having the owner
ship of the roads stable and not likely
to be frequently changed, rates could be
reduced. He thought that no more than
10 per cent of the business was COMPETE
tive between the Northern Pacific and the
Great Northern roads; that is, interstate
business.
Mr.. Hill was examined at length re-
garding the Great Northern mileage. He
explained that the Great Northern scarce
| ly absolutely owned any railroad mileage,
but that it operated somewhere from five
to six thousand miles of road under
leases and that it also owned the large
portion of the stock Of the old Manitoba
road and some other corporations.
He also testified relativ to the reduce
ton of rates made on the Great North
ern since the purchase of the Burling-
ton system. In response to the question
| who directed the reduction on the Great
Northern, he said it was matter OF
conference between the officers and him
SELF He said the reduction of rates on
the Great Northern was not new thing,
but was quite frequent and had been for
number Of years. He said the reduc-
ton amounted to 10 or Is per cent. On
grain it was 10 per cent. 1t was nearly
that from all places on the Great North
ern which were grain shipping points and
some places more. He thought the re-
auction was substantially the same on
the Northern Pacific, but was not abso-
luteiy informed on that point. He dis
claimed having personally made the
changes in the traffic rates If freight, but
when they were a matter Of great NOM
ent he had been consulted and advised in
the matter. He did not think that the
rates had been reduced on lumber, pig
IRON or coal since the purchase of the
Burlington, because those rates were
abnormally lower before and much lower
than were charged by the Eastern roads
The gross earnings of the Great North
ern per ton per mile were stated to be
| 1853 and the average of the railroads OF
the United States was .729. He thought
that the Northern Pacific was higher,
probably in the neighborhood Of 800. On
the Atchison it was 1888. M. Hill said
that the rates on the Atch1son were
higher than on the Great Northern and
| Northern Pacific. and thought that if
| they charged the average rate of the
Atchison it would increase their earnings
| IS, 900, 900.
| Referring to the purchase of large
! amount of coal land in Illinois, Mr.. Hill
said the Northern Securities company did
| not own this land at the time the pres
emit suit was begun. He made this ex-
PLANTATION on the coal question.
Coal Supply.
Witness: do not want to be misunder-
stood, and from the questions I think I
have been. The Great Northern Railway
company and the Northern Pacific Rail-
| way company have an interest in this
country and the people living here, and,
! 1naSmuch as our winters are cold it
| would be difficult for them to live here
without fuel, and it is very serious mat
| ter-it is very serious matter for the
| railways. We don't know now that we
would be able to run our trains to the
first day of February, with the lack Of
supply Of coal, without bringing coal
| from Illinois. and we don't know but we
| would have~to give up portion Of our
| supply of steam coal to keep people from
| freezing before spring-and it is not due
| by any means to the anthracite strike,
and I tried to make it plain yesterday
that it was not; but it is due to the in
ability of the railroads between Lake
! Erie and the mines in West Virginia,
| Pennsylvania and Ohio to move the coal.
! They are unable to move the coal up to
! Lake Erie ports, and we are unable to
get a supply. At this time we have not
been able to get one-haH of our purchase
for the year, and navigation will close
some time next month. That is the i'm
| portance of the control for US of access
| to the coal mines of Illinois, which are
the nearest coal mines to this country.
and the Importance of that will be appar-
rent more and more as time goes on.
! Mr.. Hill further testified that when the
Union Pacific desired to get control OF
the Burlington road Mr.. Hartman came
| to him while they were negotiating and
wanted to take a half interest, but the
proposition was declined. The purchase
| of the Northern Pacific by the Union Pa
/ cif1c, he said would have left the Great
| Northern in helpless condition because
| the Great Northern was jointly and sew
! orally responsible for two hundred mil
| lions, that being the purchase price of the
Burlington stock, and ii the Northern
/ Pacific owned joint-intereSt in the deal,
! they would be responsible for one-half
/ OF that amount, but if the Northern Paci-
!! fic was in the hands of rival trans
| continental line with it's interest in San
| Francisco and from Omaha through the
/ Platte Valley to San Francisco they could
/ influence the Burlington to help their
| Southern interests and would be in a
| position to prevent the building up or aid
| ing the development of the Northwest
| that the Great Northern had worked so
| long and hard to establish.
| The gist Of Mr.. Hills testimony during