The Butte inter mountain. [volume] (Butte, Mont.) 1901-1912, 1902-01-24
HILL AND HARTMAN APPEAR
BEFORE THE INTER STATE
COMMERCE COMMISSION.
BOTH TESTIFY THIS AFTERNOON
First Two Witnesses Today Swear That
the Proposed Merger of Interests
Would Make Little or No Differ
ence in Question of Rates.
lBy Associated Press.l

Chicago, Jan. 24.-What is expected to
be one of the most interesting sessions
the inter state commerce commission
ever held began here today.
The promised presence of James ].
Hill and u. II. Hartman, who arc sup
posed to know all about the community
of interest plans of the railroads and
who are expected to enlighten the COM
mission on various points concerning the
plan, brought crowd of curious people,
chiefly traction men, into court.
1t is the expressed purpose Of the COM
mission to discover, II possible, what
changes Il any, have been created be-
tween the general public and the rail-
roads by reason of the associate man
agement" of the latter.
The commissioners desire to find out
II the carrying out of the community of
interest idea has affected the rate situ-
alton in a way contrary to law. or, as
claimed, IL 1t Is likely to affect the sta
bility and non-discrimination of and in
rates for which the commission has long
battled.
Hill and Hartman Present.
Mr.. Hill and Mr.. Hartman both
reached Chicago during the morning,
and Mr.. Hill, accompanied by Mr.. Gro
commission. Chairman Knapp. being
appealed to, stated that Mr.. Hill would
be allowed to testify at time which
would permit him to take a train for
New York tonight.
Mr.. Hill would not talk to reporters
who sought an outline of his testimony.
Darius Miller. first president and
traffic manager of the Chicago, Burling-
ton & Quincy, and former manager of
the Great Northern, was the first wit
ness.
In answer to questions by Mr.. Day,
attorney for the commission, Mr.. Miller
stated that the Burlington was abso-
luteiy independent in "its operations and
In making of rates"
Have you received instructions from
either Mr.. Hill or Mr.. Hartman, in re-
gard to making rates?" Mr.. Day asked.
II have received none the witness
answered.
Commissioner Prouty asked the wit
ness to what extent the Northern Pacific
and Great Northern were competitors,
and Mr.. Miller put the competitive traffic
at about 25 per cent.
He declared that the Burlington was
not competitor of the Great Northern
and Northern Pacific. He said the two
northern roads had made frequent
agreements to maintain rates, but said
he knew Of no penalty having been i'm
posed for violation of agreements.
Stubs on the Stand.
]. c. stubbs, traffic manager of the
Southern Pacific and the Union Pacific,
followed Mr.. Miller. Mr.. Stubbs stated
that u. Fl. Hartman was chairman OF
the board of directors of both roads but
he was appealed to only in extreme
cases.
Mr. Stu1bbs said no such case had
arisen since his appointment, and that
he had proceeded under his general in
structions from Mr.. Hartman.
He said that rates generally had been
fairly well maintained. but that there
had been Generalization in Colorado
and Utah.
He declared that the Southern Pacific
and Atchison were competitors
rs there no agreement between YOU
and the Santa Fe road as to division
of the oil and sugar traffic?" asked Mr.
Day
NO" replied the witness. "There is
division of the orange traffic, but this
Is due to the fact that about 30 per cent
of the crop is tributary to each line"
The witness averred that the Union
Pacific and the Southern Pacific were
competitors. Although he admitted that
ne believed the Union Pacific controlled
the Southern Pacific, he declared that
this control could not have any effect on
rates.
IA look at We map will show you
what this competition is" Mr.. Stubbs
observed parenthetically.
At 12:4O the commission took recess
until 2 p. m.