The Birmingham age-herald., 1902-10-21
WITNESSES HEARD
 IN MERGER CASE
Hill Explains His Connection
 With Great Northern R. R.
NEEDED BETTER TERMINALS
Said Ills Company Was Unable to se- cure Enough Coal for It's Own Use at Either Lake Erie or
 Lake Superior Ports.

St Paul, Minn.. October 2o.-speeial- Examiner F. O. Ingersoll today, in the United States circuit court room, con- tinued the examination of witnesses in the case of the United states vs. the Northern Securities company, the first hearing having been adjourned from New York to this city Solicitor General J. K. Richards and w. A Day. attorneys for the interstate commerce committee; ]. M. Beck. representing the government, while the former attorney general. G. w Griggs: David Wilcox of New York, George B. Young, c. W. Bum and M. D. Grover of St. Paul appeared for the defense. The New York hearing sub. stantially completed the governments presentation of its case, and the testi- mony to be given today was on behalf Of the defendants the Northern Securi- ties company. the Northern Pacific com pany, the Great Northern railway, and the principal officers of those companies.
 J. J. TIill. president of the Northern Sc curities and Great Northern Railroad companies, was the first witness. His tes- timony during the forenoon covered his official connection with the Great North ern railroad and the previous companies of which 1t was the outgrowth.
 In answer. to questions, MT. Hill said that on the west end of his line the local supply coal was sufficient for business, but his company was unable to secure a sufficient supply in 1900 for it's own use at either Lake Erie or Lake Superior ports. Coal for domestic use was also un- obtainable, sthe terminals being unable to handle all the cars. The case was even worse this year. less than half of the proper supply being now on hand for the season. It was even worse in the case of coal for domestic use The situation is serious this year and will constantly grow worse.
 Referred to Btumlnous Coal.
 He referred particular to bituminous coal, and spoke of the use of the Bur lington line as means of supplying northwestern needs for fuel. A trunk line to Chicago. St Louis and other centers, he said, makes 1t possible to con trol the return shipments and keep down the rates. All conditions affecting the Great Northern would necessarily affect the Northern Pacific similarly, especial ly so in the matter of coal supply Both roa6s must handle business both ways in order to compete with everything that floats and to compete with the Suez ca- nal route, but they were doing it suc- cessfully. They compete with Germany and Great Britain in transportation; also in a less degree with the Panama route.
 Cotton and machinery, he said showed remarkable increases in Oriental traffic within the last year, while oil and some other commodities decreased. The year ending, 1902, showed about double the Oriental shipments of the previous year
 MT. Hill said that in 1897 the project of securing the Burlington was considered, but the Great Northern was unable to. do this alone and the Northern Pacific had just been organized and was not in a position to join such scheme. He did not know of any Great Northern directors making heavy purchases of Northern Pacific stock In order to con- trol that line. At the time of the fight for control he and his friends held from thirty-three to thirty-five millions of common stock of the Northern Pacific. On the third of May, after the prices were above par and it was evident that attempts to secure control were under way, he called the attention of his as- socates to the matter and more stock was sold by them. The Morgans up to that time had no suspicion of any at tempt to raid the stock. He explained that the Northern Pacific holders men, tioned did not include those of J. P. Morgan and company.
 Wanted to Prevent Raid.
 The purpose, after the purchase of the Of f1a Ioro blocks of Northern Pacific stock in the formation of the Northern Securities company, was to put the stock where 1t could not again be raided, as 1t had been." This was preferably not a rail- road company. Railroad charters almost always do not provide for buying other companies, and the organization of a sep arate holding company would be free from the possibility of raids" intended to destroy or hamper the company.
 Neither the Great Northern company nor it's officers, as such" said MT. Hill. had anything to do with the organiza- ton of the Northern Securities company. It was purely a matter for the share holders and not to exceed eleven out Of eighteen hundred, more or less, took part in the organization.
 .oThe sale by myself and by everybody and as president of the Northern Secur- ties conpany-I know the conditions of stock to the Northern Securities company were absolute and complete, and that company is free to burn the stock or do what it sees fit with it. There was no condition of any kind attached to the sale of the stock and no agreement or conditions were ever contemplated"
 Each sale of stock covered only the salo of the particular stock offered, each stock holder acting entirely for himself. There was no solicitation or pressure to induce shareholders to sell to the Northern &c., curities company.
 MT. Hill will be on the stand tomorrow.