The Indianapolis journal. [volume] (Indianapolis [Ind.]) 1867-1904, 1902-03-27

the Northern Pacific interests were safe. as
they would be If l held a majority Of the
stock"
such a majority you could not have
without Mr.. Hill going in with your asked
Mr.. Lamb.
Il could. Mr.. Hill did not have control,
nor did L."
Mr.. Morgan here returned to the time
when he learned OF the contest for North
ern Pacific control. Il was at AK. and so
was Mr.. Kennedy" he said. Mr.. Kennedy
was a large holder OF Great Northern
stock and also OF Northern Pacific. He
came TO me at AK I'm the beginning of May
and said. What means all this? / said, 1
6on't know, He 80; 1 will put my stock stock
mates. We have been friends for forty
years. ] explained 20 him what I had done,
and he said anything suggested he would
do. All my friends said the same. That Is
the way they treated me in the Northern
Pacific transaction" said Mr.. Morgan.
Mr.. Morgan later testified that he had
made a large sale of Northern Pacific stock
10 j. J. Hill.
How much was ii " asked Mr.. Lamb.
Il can't remember, " replied Mr.. Morgan.
Somebody has testified here that it was
sl0.000.0O0 worth said Mr.. Lamb.
Well, that may be-
eth seems rather a large transaction.
Can you not tell US something about the
negotiations asked Mr.. Lamb.
a 100000 purchase OF stock does not
seem "A very big transaction 10 me. l have
forgotten the details said Mr.. Morgan.
I'M ant 4 NUA hEu LDHtNIEl 4 II WOl n
with him any time. If ii had been different
I'll tell you an instance of what / could
have done: Say that | had bought the
ern, what would Hill have lone Them
MR.. MORGAN SMILED.
Mr.. Morgan smiled at this suggestion of
what might have happened. He said he did
not help organize the Northern Securities
Company, but he approved the plan. He
thought $3.50 a share for Great Northern
rather. high and Sis somewhat low for
Northern Pacific. Witness wanted to put
his Northern Pacific stock in a COMPANY
that was so large that nobody could buy it.
II it was deposited in a small company it
might be bought. He saw Mr.. Hartman
on his return from Europe. but they did not
talk about Union Pacific, nor about North
ern Pacific. The witness said j. L. Morgan
K Co. hold between 125. 600 and 10000 shares
of Northern Securities stock at the pres
ent time.
There was a friendly cross-examination Of
Mr.. Morgan by Francis Lynde Stetson. To
him the witness said the retirement Of the
Northern Pacific preferred stock was not
part Of the plan which eliminated in the
formation of the Northern Securities Com
pany, nor was 1t part Of a plan TO allow the
Northern. Securities Company TO obtain the
majority of the Northern Pacific common.
Mr.. Morgan denied there was any under
standing or agreement in the organization
of the Northern Securities Company look
ing TO the control Of rates or traffic. or any
agreement that in any manner would OBJ
struet or contemplate the obstruction of
He said that all parties to the
agreement had acted independently.
Mr.. Morgan said IL was never contem-
plated that the holders of Northern Pa
ciic preferred could change that stock for
common stock. The retirement of the pre-
ferred stock as early as possible was part
OF the reorganization plan of 1896. The re-
tirement, however, was not practicable un-
til after the common stock sold at mar or
above. TIL preferred stockholders, the wit
ness thought, would have changed their
shares for common stock if they had had
the opportunity. This closed Mr.. MOrgan's
testimony and the hearing went over until
tomorrow, when George +. Baker will be
called.