The Ely miner. [volume] (Ely, Minn.) 1895-1986, 1902-10-31

Hill stated that replying to inquiries. he
| told them that it was matter they must
determine for themselves-and he had so
many inquiries that finally he prepared q
circular letter as IN answer, in which he
explained that the Northern Securities
company did not operate and could not
operate a railroad, but could only buy
and sell shares of railroads. and the value
of its stocks dependent upon the profit
made by the railroads the stocks of which
| the Northern Securities company might
acquire.
He left each inquirer to act his own
pleasure without giving advice.
The Second pay.
On the second day of Mr. Hills testi-
mony he was cross examined by the at
torneys for the government. 1t was de-
veloped by his testimony that Hartman,
who represents the Union Pacific's inter-
ests is the largest individual stockholder
in the Northern Securities company.
This came about by the large purchase Of
Northern Pacific stock by the Union Pa
cific made during the raid in May, 1901.
in response to questions Mr.. Hill said
there was nothing to prevent Mr.. Harri-
man from buying more stock of the
Northern Securities company, if he was
willing to pay the price asked for it by the
owners. He might even buy enough to
have control, but he, Hill, did not think
the owners would be likely to sell it, and
so that though he now has some eighty
or ninety millions of the four hundred
millions of stock, he did not consider it
likely he would ever have control.
He explained that the organization OF
the Northern Securities company was to
prevent any such raids as were made in
1901 and would make it very difficult even
if not substantially impossible for any one
person or syndicate to get control of the
stock of the roads in the hands of the
holding company. By having the owner
ship of the roads stable and not likely
to be frequently changed, rates could be
| reduced. He thought that no more than
10 per cent of the business was COMPETE
tive between the Northern Pacific and the
Great Northern roads; that is, interstate
business.
Mr.. Hill was examined at length re-
garding the Great Northern mileage. He
explained that the Great Northern scarce
ly absolutely owned any railroad mileage,
but that 1t operated somewhere from five
to six thousand miles of road under
leases and that it also owned the large
portion of the stock of the old Manitoba
road and some other corporations.
He also testified relative to the reduc-
ton of rates made on the Great North
ern since the purchase of the Burling-
ton system. In response to the question
who directed the reduction on the Great
Northern, he said it was a matter Of
conference between the officers and him
SELF He said the reduction of rates on
the Great Northern was not a new thing,
but was quite frequent and had been for
number of years. He said the reduc-
ton amounted to 10 or Is per cent. On
grain it was 10 per cent. 1t was nearly
that from all places on the Great North
ern which were grain shipping points and
some places more. He thought the re-
duction was substantially the same on
the Northern Pacific, but was not abso-
lutely informed on that point He dis
claimed having personally made the
changes in the traffic rates of freight but
when they were matter of great NOM
ent he had been consulted and advised in
the matter. He did not think that the
rates had been reduced on lumber, pig
iron /or coal since the purchase of the
Burlington, because those rates were
abnormally lower before and much lower
than were charged by the Eastern roads.
The gross earnings of the Great North
ern per ton per mile were stated to be
1853 and the average of the railroads of
the United States was .729. He thought
that the Northern Pacific was higher,
probably in the neighborhood of 900. On
the AtchiSon it was 1888. Mr.. Hill said
that the rates on the Atchison were
higher than on the Great Northern and
Northern Pacific, and thought that if
they charged the average rate of the
Atchison it would increase their earnings
SIS, 900, 900.
Referring to the purchase Of a large
amount of coal land in Illinois, Mr.. Hill
said the Northern Securities company did
not own this land at the time the pres
ent suit was begun. He made this ex-
PLANTATION on the coal question.
Coal Supply.
Witness: do not want to be misunder-
stood, and from the questions 1 think
have been. The Great Northern Railway
company and the Northern Pacific Rail-
way company have an interest in this
country and the people living here, and
lnaSmuch as our winters are cold, it
would be difficult for them to live here
without fuel, and it is very serious mat
ter-it is a very serious matter for the
railways. We don't know now that we
would be able to run our trains to the
first day of February, with the lack of
supply of COAL without bringing coal
from Illinois, and we don't know but we
would have to give up portion of our
supply of steam coal to keep people from
freezing before spring-and it is not due
by any means to the anthracite strike,
and I tried to make it plain yesterday
that it was not; but it is due to the in
ability of the railroads between Lake
Erie and the mines in West Virginia,
Pennsylvania and Ohio to move the coal.
They are unable to move the coal up to
Lake Erie ports, and we are unable to
get supply. At this time we have not
been able to get one-half of our purchase
for the year, and navigation will close
some time next month. That is the i'm
portance of the control for us of access
to the coal mines of Illinois, which are
the nearest coal mines to this country,
and the Importance of that will be appar-
rent more and more as time goes on.
Mr.. Hill further testified that when the
Union Pacific desired to get control of
the Burlington road Mr.. Hartman came
| to him while they were negotiating and
wanted to take a half interest, but the
proposition was declined. The purchase
of the Northern Pacific by the Union Pa
cific, he said would have left the Great
Northern in a helpless condition because
the Great Northern was Jointly and sew
orally responsible for two hundred mil
lions, that being the purchase price of the
Burlington stock, and if the Northern
Pacific owned joint interest in the deal,
they would be responsible for one-half
of that amount, but if the Northern Paci-
fic was in the hands of a rival trans
continental line with its interest in San
Francisco and from Omaha through the
Platte Valley to San Francisco they could
influence the Burlington to help their
Southern interests and would be in
position to prevent the building up or aid
ing the development of the Northwest
hot bo had