The Billings gazette. [volume] (Billings, Mont.) 1896-1919, 1902-01-28

fty of interest combination of the
great railways. opened today great
interest was centered in Jas. ]. Hills
testimony. me united States court
room where Lne investigation. was
held, was crowded with we'll known
railroad men from all over the coun-
try, all eager to learn more of the de-
tails Of the inner workings of the gigan-
tic Northern Securities company from
the master mind that conceived it.
Possibly almost as much interest
centered around e. II. Hartman, who
organized the Southern Pacifc-Union
Pacific combination and who was Mr..
Hills opponent in the struggle for
the Northern Pacific-Burlington con
troll. Mr.. Hartman was the first wit
ness.
Asked as to the contest for North.
ern Pacific stock which led up to the
panic Of last May, Hartman said:
II don't think there was any con-
test. Some of us, the Oregon Short
Line people, thought it would be ad-
vantageous to have an interest in
the Northern Pacific and purchased
stock lying loose all over this coun
try and Europe, held by from five to
seven thousand persons. We made no
contest for the control of the North
ern Pacific, we purchased a majority
of the capital stock. We purchased
prior to the supposed contest and no
stock was acquired during the panic
in May"
Mr.. Day tried to show that the con-
test for Northern Pacific stock was
the forerunner Of the panic on change
but Mr.. Hartman insisted that such
was not the case. -
An attempt was made by the com
mission to draw out statements to the
effect that the final sale Of the North
ern Pacific stocks by the Oregon
Short Line Gas controlled by the I'm
ion Pacifc-Southern Pacific railway
system) was only after an understand
ing or truce with Mr.. Hill and the
supposed interests that combatted for
Northern Pacific in che panic.
Mr.. Hartman said that after the
purchase was made he and his col
leagues thought the matter over again
and thought it better to sell again.
He implied that it made no difference
poo11xy who o1,ro5 +ho Mont orr, Do
cifc.
Commissioner Prouty asked: I'll
you had secured a few more millions
of Northern Pacific it would have
made a difference would it not?"
We could have had it," was the
reply.
The questions as to just why Mr.
Hartman had disposed of his North
ern Pacific holdings, what was lost o,
made by the transaction, and whethe
Mr.. Hill had make some agreement il
case the holdings were sold, brough
from Mr.. Hartman the response tina
natural conditions controlled. H
{ said he did not know of any gain mad
except that his interests found tina
they were strong enough to hold thei
own in Pacific traffic. He said hi
impression was that the Oregon Shor
Line had not lost by the transfer. H
said Mr.. Hill had given no assuranc
: of any division of traffic and that tn
motive of the original purchase ha
been that of preserving to the Unio
+ Pacific n of traffic open to i
"You wish to represent that no on
on behalf of the Northern Pacific il
e terest, made any promise to control.
e Mr.. Hartman rep4.ed: There
a common interest among us all, an
we believe that common interest wi
be served regardless of holdings. Ths
d common interest can be served b
o natural conditions, u interests al
It so in common that we cannot injur
d others without injuring ourselves"
Mr.. Hartman insisted that the con
n mon interest Of all systems now a 81
S lated under the Northern Securitie
If company must be considered ratht
4 than the so-called Community of i
% terests." He said he was a memb'
h Of the board of directors of the Secu
& tiles company and Mr.. Hill was i
president, but the combination und
r that company affected rates in
al way. He told how, shortly after II
le scramble over Northern Pacific stDc
Is he had given Mar. Morgan a proxy
or order to sell the stock again. 1t W;
to understood the sale was to be effectt
in cash and securities-the latt
Northern Securities company if
e. should be organized. Mr.. Harrims
Or eventually controlled about $4,000
Of 900 of the stock of this company.
Tho nueStiOn as to whether Il