The Minneapolis journal. [volume] (Minneapolis, Minn.) 1888-1939, 1902-03-27
MORE FROM MORGAN.
Wanted Northern Pacific Stock to
Be in Safe Hands.
so HE PUT IT IN SECURITIES CO.
Could Work with Hill. hut Closer
Alliance Would Have Been
Unlawful. i

New York, March 27.-J. P. Morgan, on
the stand in the Peter Power case yes
terday said Union Pacific men were put
on the Burlington board in carrying out
a community OF interest plan. They could
fight among themselves, however, if they
wanted to. Harmony was what was de-
sired There was no special object in
putting Mr. Gould on the board. In fur
Their eXplanat ion of the intention and pur-
poses leading UP to the Northern Securi-
ties company, Mr.. Morgan said that as far
as the placing of the Northern Pacific
stock in that organization was concerned,
it was done to have the majority of the
stock placed in safe hands, SO as to insure
continuance of the policy Of the road
and insure the moral control.
No other change was contemplated, the
inancier declared The project of the
holding company of the Mort hern Pacific
common stock had been contemplated for
considerable time. Mr.. Hill had ap-
preached him two years ago about organ
:zing holding company which would
throw the Northern Pacific and Great
Northern interests together.
Il told Mr.. Hill that We could work to-
gether," said the witness, ''but that we
could not form any closer alliance. as
| That was against the law vs..
The idea Of forming the Northern Sc
cur1t1es company was never thought of
previously to May 9, Mr.. Morgan said. and
after the experience Of May he became
more strongly imbued with the idea of
forming holding company for the North
ern Pacific stock.
Wanted Stock In Safe Hands,
"This is what occurred to me-" Mr..
Morgan continued Il might die or the
firm of j. P. Morgan & Co. might be
dissolved. and in such, an event l wanteu
the Mort hern Pacific stock to be in safe
hands. SO that the stockholders might not
/ suffer. did not care who went into
the company so long as the Northern
pscific interests were safe, as they would
be it held majority of the stock
Such majority you could not have
without Mr.. Hill going in with you"
asked Mr.. Lamb. s. -:
II could. Mr.. Hill did not have control
nor did t. r..,..s -
Mr.. Morgan here returned to the time
when he learned of the contest for North
ern Pacific control.
Il was at AK and so was Mr. Kennedy"
he said. "Mr. Kennedy was a large stock-
holder Of Great Northern and also of
Northern Pacific. He came to me at AK
In the beginning of May and said: What
| means all this?'. said: I don't know
He said: I will put my stock into your
office
\ oheoy 1Au nave Deon friends for
| forty years. l explained to him what
had done, and he said anything I sug-
gested he would do. All my friends said
the same. That is the way they treated
| me in the Northern Pacific transactions !"
| said Mr.. Morgan.
Mr.. Morgan later testified he had made
| large sale OF Northern Pacific stock to
j. J. Hill.
How much was it?" asked Mr.. Lamb.
Il can't remember" replied Mr. Nor
gan.
Somebody has testified here that it
was $1,000 900 WORTH" said Mr.. Lamb.
We'll, that may be-" 1859
This seems rather a large transaction.
| Can you not tell us something about the
| TRANSACTIONS" asked Mr. Lamb.
! s1O,OOO,OOO Isn't Much. ~.
"A ten million purchase of stock does
not seem very big transaction to me.
have forgotten the Details said Mr..
Morgan. Hill and I worked together.
! III work with him any time. If it had
| been different I'll tell you an instance of
what could have done. Say that I had
| bought the Union Pacific interests in the
| Great Northern, what would Hill have
| done then?'
He said he did not help to organize the
Northern Securities company, but he ap-
| proved the plan. He thought $50 a share
for Great Northern rather high, and SIZE
| somewhat low for Northern Pacific The
witness wanted to put his Northern Pacific
! stock in company that was so large that
nobody could buy it. If it was deposited
in small company it might be bought
He saw Mr.. Hartman on his return from
Europe, but they did not talk about the
Union Pacific nor about the Northern Pa
citic.
! The witness said J. P. Morgan &, Co.
hold between 100000 and 900 shares of
Northern Securities stock at the present
time. There was a friendly cross exam
ination of Mr.. Morgan by Francis Linde
Stetson. To him the witness said that
the. retirement of the Northern Pacific
preferred stock was no part Of the plan
| which eliminated in the formation of the
| Northern Securities company nor was it
part of plan to allow the Northern Sc
curities company to obtain the majority
Of the Northern Pacific common
No Traffic Agreements
Mr.. Morgan denied that there was any
understanding or agreement in the or
ganization OF the Northern Securities
company looking to the control of rates
or traffic, nor any agreement that would
in any manner obstruct or contemplat e
the obstruction of commerce. He said
that all parties to the agreement had
acted Independently.
Mr.. Morgan said it was never contem-
plated that the holders Of Northern Pa
cifc preferred could change that stock
for common stock. The retirement o.
stock, as early as possible, was part Of
. the reorganization plan Of 1895. The re.
tirement, however was not practicable
until after the common stock sold at pal
or above. The preferred stockholders. the
witness thought, would have changed
their shares for common stock if they
had the opportunity. This closed Mr.
Morgan's testimony.
N0RIEI cApTIIpEn