The Savannah morning news. (Savannah, Ga.) 1900-current, 1902-01-26
HARTMAN TESTIFIES
THE PACIFIC RAILWAY MAGNATE
FOLLOWS HILL.
ADVOCATES THE SAME IDEAS.
HE TALKS ABOUT THE STOCK Ex-
CHANGE PANIC.

Doesn't Think That the Purchases
Made by His People Caused the
Panic and Evades the Question as
to How He Came Out on the Deaf
with INSTRUMENTATION wouId
Not Affect Rates, He Said-If He
and MIR. HiII Controlled All the
Roads They Could Give the People
better Rates.
Chicago Jan. 25.-When the second
days inquiry by the Interstate Com
merce Commission into the "commu-
nifty of interest" combination of the
great railways of the Northwest open
ed to-day. great interst was mani
tested in the testimony. The United
States court room. where the investi-
cation was held, was crowded with
we'll known railway men.
E. III. Hartman, who organized the
Southern Pacific Union Pacific COM
bination, and who was Mr.. Hills OPP
ponent In the struggle for the North
ern ic-Burlington control was the
first witness.
Mr. Hartman explained the socall-
ed contest" in the New York Stock
Exchange which resulted in the famous
BLACK Thursday"
II don't think there was any con-
test" said Mr.. Hartman. "Some of
us-the Oregon Short Line people
though It would be advantageous to
have an interest in Northern Pacific
and purchased stock that was lying
loose all over this country and Europe
held by five to seven thousand persons.
We made no contest for the control of
the Northern Pacific; we made pur-
chases OF capital stock. We purchased
prior to the supposed contest and no
stock was acquired in May"
Mr.. Day tried to show that the con-
test 1or Northern Pacific stock was the
forerunner of the panic on the Ex-
change, but Mr.. Hartman insisted that
such was not the case.
Some of the stock" he continued.
we had bought in markets all over the
world. Some of this was on the wav
| from these various markets to be de-
livered. In the meantime the sellers
| borrowed"
4 Questions were then put that indi-
Gated "jobbing' had been resorted to
IN the purchase and which Brought the
reply:
The stock was purchased in New
York from persons who bought from
owners Then when the so-called con-
test came and the stock was demand
ed, the sellers found 1t difficult to full
| fill the contracts. Our interests in ev-
| cry case gave these persons all the
! time they wanted.
A smooth Witness.
The questions as to just why Mr.
Hartman had disposed of his North
ern Pacific holdings, what was lost or
made by the transaction and whether
Mr.. Hill had made some agreement In
case the holdings were sold, brought
from Mr. Hartman the response that
natural conditions controlled. He said
that Mr.. Hill had given no assurance
or any division of traffic and that the
motive of the original purchase had
been that of preserving to the Union
Pacific system the avenues of traffic
open to 1t.
Mr.. Hartman insisted that the com
mon interest of all systems now affili-
ated under the Northern Securities
Company must be considered rather
than the so-called Community of in
terests.'
He said he was a member of the
board of directors of the Securities
Company and Mr.. Hill was its presi-
dent, but the combination under that
company affected rates in nowise
The question IL the formation of the
Northern Securities Company and the
association of 50 many roads might In
fiuence rates brought a denial.
Might Regulate Rates.
"It may enable u.s." said Mr.. Harri-
man, when brought so close together,
to eliminate the prevailing distrust as
to the various lines maintaining traffic
rates. The complaint has been of too
high rates-we may be able to stop the
discrimination in rates of one shipper
against another"
He stated that this, however need
not have been done in such a company.
The suggestion was made by the COM
mission that this company might also
prevent reduction Of published rates
by competing roads. He did not con-
slider the company afforded a power of
concentration for pooling. Other large
considerations than stock holdings, he
held, influenced rates.
"If Mr.. Hill or myself owned all the
roads the people would get better
rates because of conditions. With a
freer hand we could the better regulate
the rates to any point. The prevailing
movement of cars, influence. ETC."
He added that he did not think COM
petition ever reduced rates more than
temporarily.
Mr.. Hill was not called on TO testify.