The Jersey City news. (Jersey City [N.J.]) 1889-1906, 1900-02-05

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Witness. and examined, being an integral
part of that court at that ume; ana %
avoid any question 1t was finally deter
mined that it was better NOT 20 can an, me- t,s
dicated. | also recall that If 1t was not
tried then it had to go over to some fu-
should not be examined.
o. Do you recollect what toog place
then, when Mr.. Manning and Mr. Noonan
were before you?
ment to the Court for the purpose OF nav
ing the plea Withdrawn and reconsidereu
and a plea of not guilty entered on the
grounds that ne then advanced; Tile FIST
of them was that his client did not under
stand the English language, ana hau
counsel who were not present, and that ne
was the counsel.
say to that or in reply to that?
A. Mr.. Noonan opposed the motion,
stating the defendant must have @ un- m
derstood what he pleaded to, DSca use
there has been an interpreter; ana Issfe
was, as matter of fact, an interpreter,
one Mr.. Simansk.
when Mr.. Manning and also Mr. Simpson
appeared before you, presiding IN the
Quarter Sessions, to make the arguIre enl
Withdraw his plea of guilty to the lndict-
ment of larceny?
A. Yes
o. Do you recoliect whether or not Mr..
Noonan was there that day?
A. Well, what day do you refer 10!
A. The day that Manning and Simpson
were arguing before you the. motion mads
by them, or either of them, to the elece q
that the prisoner should be permitted TO
withdraw his plea of Guilty" to the IN
dictment of larceny?
O. In open court, do you mean?
0. In open court.
A. / think Mr. Noonan was present.
Yes in fact, know he was present.
Q. Do you recollect that that was on
the 10th of December? no+
A. Well, my recollection is-but CANNOT
state positively
d. Your recollection is that it was
the 10th?
10th / can tell better if could recall
when the Grand Jury was discharged lor
q. Was it the same day that the Grand
Jury for that term was discharged!
A. The day before.
q, It was the day before the Grand
Jury was discharged for that term?<
8. You say that during most of the
argument made by Manning and Simpson
in behalf of that motion that morning,
the day the Grand Jury for that term
was discharged, Mr.. Noonan occupied one
of the seats in the petit jury box-where
else, if you recollect. specially in the court
room was he during part OF that argu-
ment?
specially any place during that argument
1 recall that he was there some time dur
ing the argument and he may have been
there all the time.
O. Do you reeollect whether or not MIR.
Noonan said anything to you that morn
ing while Manning and Simpson were
making their argument, or between times,
on the question of whether or not You
should allow the prisoner, BoczkoWsk1,
to withdraw his plea of .Guilty'' to the
Indictment of larceny, and if SO, what?
A. Mr.. Noonan, recall, on the occasion
of motion being made by Manning ana
Simpson, in the connection you speak Of,
stepped up to the corner of the bench,
and said to me, during the course of the
argument by those gentlemen, You nave
got this man. why don't you hold him Z,
or why do you want to bother about it,
something to that effect; and he stood
there then for some little time at the
bench Now, what morning that was,
Manning and Simpson, am not very clear
about.
@. Do you recollect that whatever he
said of that matter was said by him on
son were arguing their motion in court
when ne stepped up to you and stood at
the end of the bench as you were sitting
at the bench? What is your best recol-
A I remember, during the course of the
argument, when Mr. Simpson and Mr..
Manning were present, that Mr.. Manning
or Mr.. Simpson insisted that their client
was guilty of anything, and he could not
be convicted of grand larceny, Mr..
Noonan Heretofore had told me that
there were several charges against the
man of similar import to that upon
which he had been convicted by his own
plea; and / avs very anxious to hold the
man. but I was inclined to open the plea
upon the ground advanced by Mr.. Man
ming that he was counsel, that he had not
been present and that his client did not
understand what he had pleaded to, but
my greatest desire was, in view of what
Mr.. Noonan had told me, to hold him, if
possible, SO that during this argument
intimated to Mr.. Manning and Mr.. Simp-
son, well, if this is opened by the court
upon the technical objection that you
make and upon the meritorious argument
that you have advanced, that counsel was
not here, will you plead guilty or will
your client plead guilty to the charge of
that they intimated they would. And I
think at that time Mr.. Noonan said that
he could not be held, however,, upon any
such charge.
@. As embezzlement?
A. AS embezzleme ent-that that was
repetition of what he had already said on
the first day.
@. Now, Judge. you say that Mr.. Moo
you also once or twice afterward, that
the crime that the man could be held on
was that of larceny, to which he pleaded
guilty. and that he could not very well
ment-did he ever afterwards say word
to you to change that in any way?
A. i don't know what you mean.
@. Did he ever afterwards say anything
whatever in that respect-did he ever af-
terwards say that the man could be held
for embezzlement, and that he ought to-
be allowed to withdraw his plea, or any
thing to that effect?
A. No; he never urged me to consent
to this plea being withdrawn. recall
that Mr. Manning challenged him there
that morning as to the fact as to wheth-
er or not the man had been represented
by counsel when he pleaded, and whether
or not he, Manning, was not absent at
that time, and Noonan said to the Court,
THAT is true, Mr.. Manning was not pres
ent, and he had no counsel" 1 remember
that.
Q. Well, that was true, was it, to your
knowledge?
when he pleaded guilty he was not repre-
sented by counsel.
@. And was It in response to the chal-
lenge by Mr.. Manning to affirm or deny
that, that Mr.. Noonan admitted it?
A. Yes.
Examined by Joseph M. Noonan:-
@. Now, you have testified here that
on some occasion in which this matter
was up in court said to you, not ad-
dressing myself so as to be heard by
counsel for the prisoner, but addressing
myself ito you privately, that you 'thad
him on this plea that he had entered, and
why not hold him on that plea''-can you.
fix the date on which that statement was
made to you?
a / cannot fix the date, but recollect
y.
@. Can you fix 1t with reference to the
day of the discharge of the Grand Jury
was 1t on that day or the day before the
discharge?