New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1899-05-17
!. j. ....,tr - facts, Al win testify to facts

a. A.
O "Relative 10 his incumbency Of that ONCE! A.
atsu W Before you talked with him ad you not
talk with members OF your or lss ,aihed with
don't recollect whom talked WITH 'a'Ne' VIII"
o-You don't recollect! We'll; ! ia. tax s0 %I,h
smd they complain Of certain ones that they don't
6y t sGp 40 With that
neved that he was not proper man TO be retained
as Chief Of Police, didn't your A'-when ne
s.osa'--wait a moment. A.-when he saidwwhen
Hamilton Consented to tt ..,,
o'~You will get chance to make your speech.
viii come out: but i want an answer to my cues
tion and the Mayor Of NeW TorS ana ask you
to observe the ordinary rules Of proceeding. A.
C."when you talked with Mccullagh you be
ieved that he was net R proper vn m1n AP told
C" o,-You believed it to be true' A-of course II
I told him.
SHOWS HIS TEsTY SPIRIT.
O-They say that lawyers make poor Witnesses
but l would like TO have direct answers. Do 70"
be,isye it7 You might have told him and not nave
believed H. Al never say anything don't De-
lieve.
ODD you believe it? Al never make state
keep tssre' A"That is the reason Told him that
'e e"is that the best way you can answer the
question? Ayes s,s 500, have IN mind any
e. Ss e. XII ;3 $$S ss:
chief SO long az II the right man; that Is
uSs: r,Hasdsn e c ME uarTS M'eNc
Q-About the chieftaincy Of the ioTGe No:
never interfered w.s,.,
al didn't say interfere ,G vo,i saia tTfK talk SO
much that I can't tell you wha' 'nes w" '''"
about 6outii.,, :, fact Any dear sir. they run in
all day. they talk until close the door 10 10 d 10
bed and then once in awhile newspaper ma"
cones Us a1a y y%h' dcay this morning largely be-
no difficulty here this morning. ..o, ,o,, aon.t
Q-You have again and again sara thas yoNS o ' one
f ren r9%em ,s1nffT ALL -" 49, ,,,rs
Qn wa ,rs "a yer position, which it Is hard TO
OF or tn neer ali the deals? Al don't suppose
o9oslo wben po taxed with Mr. McCusgh and con
cded that he was not the right man. da you eSf,
s n1Sfm 80 frO% That you had told him he had
transferred two Officers either sersea"'s u
rne"' Inn rnnw u Al am going TO give you the
arswer.
PROMISED SUPPORT TO MCU1AAGH
o. am going to ask you for that in a moment.
an goirg to ask you for the whole conversation
but the question which you are not answering is
dierent ! will pu. 1T 10 you again. When you
concluded that he was not the proper man for that
pace had you made up your mind from his state
inens only or rom Ine s1a'ene h him, ma FTom
what heard generally. told him 70 go oack ana
atend TO his business and he would nave my sup
'c.-Frcr what you had heard generally. From
on know noS y eyer iySGdSo SaRed 70 him
nas here aiy genera Sompan ,r ao fe y yne
what the complaint was.
Q.--Was there or was there not complaint about S1
lei YOU what the complaint was ,~..., -. ,u.a
Q.-Wait moment. When you formed the judgs
M
oid you a, the same time form a judgment that
the TWO NOT mem 10 be
ala not come TO the conclusion that he was not
pTofep man Manner name nam 70 he enc eonnneS 70 DO
bad done but told him to go and behave himself
"6-Before YOU came TO whatever conclusion you
ala about Mr. MsCuagh which y0p said ,1a y9H t de
Two yfRS epSScas msmSers Of The 9nce
Msre ,Sou she Of i don know about that viii
tel .hy d Sh Ta yS 4s have TO any complaint
that pr0duced an upon your you pTon nq
10 r be eh PDcs an" eommsso o Al made up my
. mind in regard to Mr.. Philips because he had been
H 4asirS as soon as had my convefsaiOn with
with Mr. McCullagh? Al can't recollect that
Q.-wssnt Mr.; Philips indicted considerable I
s sas6 and Of Sm sr that Seek
speedy trial. end Unless he da St %o Se
do II. and removed him.
HIS CONVERSATION WITH HAMILTON
Q.-There was such reason as that in the case
CT Mr. Hamilton. there? A.-Well. Mr.. Hamil-
toni Will give that conversation with Mr.
Hamilton.
Q.-Proceed. Al called Mr.. Hamilton up on the
phone He came down 10 the Mayors Office. told
him that had heard that IL was said that McCul-
member mem a' Of isf the force down to SatrSmen the
Manhattan and the Bronx. unless Mr.; Hamilton
sent unless he had consulted with Mr.. Quigg
asked him II that was So He said It was all true,
tSst he a. sad Senator Plat ' told him that
tom and would have no wrangie in that Board
| wouldn't have II then and won't have 1t now
he'd for the last ten years-and would remove him,
exercising that authority that was conferred upon
oGNow Mr.. Mayor was your sole reason for
removing Mr. phillips the fact that he was oT In,
would not remove man because he was IN
nd but S HI had sa mos Sp So
was not s9ng to let go oyer TO hsn 10 aa
anybody pSSe' without oSt' cause a sem u N '
Q-Wlth reference TO Phillips, the entire cause
was In connection with the Indictment A-Simpy
OF say in connection with the indictment? A.
before Judge a Van WICK over in Brooklyn and he
denied H. and then he vent before snSther Judge
Appeals. and was reversed, and Justice Van Wyck
ee IL a"S a se &c
dicted: would remove no man because he was
indicted. because they indct innocent people
REFERENCE TO PLATT TOO MUCH.
Q.-And with reference TO Mr. Hamilton. the sole
cause would to you to be his control from an
outside source. revealed to YOU In that con-
versa,ion? A-Because he stated 70 me- he would
not consent 10 McCullagh exercising his power
under the charter to transfer any member of the
police force unless he Ham.;on) said So and sc
he Hamiton) would not say until he had con-
suited Senator Platt. and Senator Plat was In
Washington.
Odd you understand that he had any power
10 interfere with the transfers? A-No, he had
not. But he said the chief had said so. and thai
ccnversaton was In the presence of two witnesses
with Mr.. Hamilton.
I've have the exact reasons why these
two men were removed? A-No: thought IT was
for the interest Of the public service.
Q.-What other reasons than you have mentioned
were there that influenced your judgment? A
Because under the charter their Appointments Will