The Salt Lake herald. [volume] (Salt Lake City [Utah]) 1870-1909, 1899-02-23

Mecune he could get it? 1 did not; no.
sir
Did you say anything of that kind to
Mr.. WINS? No. sir.
Didn't you say to Mr.. Chambers that
whenever you could do Mr.. McCune
any good by coming you would come
to him, but you would come to stay:
you didn't like to be shifting about
from one man to another? No: / did
not.
Anything in substance like that? No,
sir; did not.
You say that when Mr.. WINS repeat
ed TO you what purported to be Mr.
Fisher Harris instructions TO him that
You told him it looked like Offering
money for your vote, or something 30
that effect? Words to-that effect, yes.
sir.
You stated that to Mr.. Ivins2 Yes.
sir.
And after a few moments-he said
on second thought it looked like it?
Not after few moments: almost i'm
mediately.
Wen, it was after? It was after, GER
tainly.
1t was after reflection. wasn't it?
Yes, momentary reelection.
And he said he hadn't thought so up
TO that time? Substantially that, yes,
sir.
Then you gathered the idea from him
that from anything Fisher Harris may
have said to him. he had never con-
ceived it meant bribery. but it was only
what you said in connection with what
Fisher Harris had said? 1 don't catch
the drift of that question.
Isn't it true Wait a minute. sir.
I was going to repeat it for you.
Question Tead.)
= Ii
be? | think you had better reword
your question, Mr.. Thurman; the is
said and 'as said" in there-it is very
adroitly wOrded.
You understood Mr.. WINS to say that
up to the time you suggested it he had
not thought it meant bribery, didn't
you? Why, no; I didn't know what Mr..
WINS thoughts We're.
JACKSON SUGGESTED BRIBERY.
Didn't he say? I offered the sugges-
sion.
Didn't he say to you that he had not
thought il meant bribery? Yes; he
said so.
Up to that time? Yes. or practically
that; yes.
And then he there stated to you. in
effect that he had seen no bribery in it
until you made the suggestion that it
might mean that. isn't that true2 If
you wish TO place that construction
on it,
Isn't that the only construction that
you could draw that he had never
thought so until you said what you had
said? 1 might draw my own cOnstrue-
tons; ! am here TO state facts.
Did you draw thats construction
Frankly. I did.
From him? Yes. sir.
That he from anything he had had
to say to Fisher. Harris, or Fisher Har-
ris to him, there was no thought or
conception of bribery in it TO his mind
until after you had made your state
ment? That is my judgment; whatever
he may have to say Will be his judg
ment.
But isn't that what he said? Prac-
tically.
That he hadn't thought so up to that
time2 Practically, yes, sir; l have an
swered that question
You understood that was the frame
of mind he was in. that he hadn't
looked upon it as bribery up to that
time? l don't understand quite, just
his frame of mind
Can't you sometimes determine tina
frame Of mind by what a man says?
Oh. yes.
Didn't you determine the frame of his
mind by what he said? On that occa-
sion I did.
Now then, the frame of mind. as you
determined it, up TO that time, from
what he said. was that he had seen no
bribery in it until you suggested that
it might mean bribery? I have an
swered your question.
Well, is that true? Yes, 10 the best
of my knowledge, if you wish me to
reiterate.
Are you positive now, Mr.. Jackson, as
to the language used by AIR. Wins?
Why. as near positive as man can be,
yes. sir: I think l am as certain of the
terms used as I am certain that l am
here.
Did you make any memorandum of
it? No. sir.
Do you know when it was? Why. /
cannot recall the date; it was on that
Sunday evening thas 1 have related
About how many weeks ago would
you say? Well, two or three.
Might this be something like the Ian
guage: Sea jackson tonight, no mat !
ter what the expense, and secure his /
vote? No; that couldn't be the Ian |
guage he repeated TO me.
1t could not be the language? No.
He repeated to you? No. sir.
Now. you understood that WINS had |
come right from Harris2 He told me So /
Had seen him personality He so in |
formed me.
And what he told you he had got |
from Mr. Harris himself? That was
my understanding.
Can you tell how it was that WINS |
who saw JacksOn-whO saw Harris /
who talked with him. VINO saw the man |
ner Of the man when he talked and i
heard the language. how he did not I
draw any conclusions that it meant /
bribery, and how you could draw it |
when you did not see him at all? No, /
I cannot; 1 am not responsible for Mr.. /
WINS frame of mind.
WAS AGAINST BFCUNE.
Were you unfriendly to Mr. Nc
Cunc? No, sir.
Have a feeling against him? No.
sir.
Desire to injure him? No. sir.
Haven't you been against him? Yes.
sir
At every turn. bitterly, from the be-
ginning to the end of the session. ex-
,ept when you talked to Mr.. Cham
Ders? Why. no; except in a political
way, sir.
In what? In a political way.
But anyway. from the cold language
alone. you thought you could see
bribery. while the man who saw the
nan deliver the words and heard what
ne said and the manner of it could
lot see it at all. until you suggested it?
Oh, I decline to answer that.
Well did you ever stop 20 think how
you could draw such a conclusion when
he man himself could not? I decline
20 answer that question. sir.
You decline to answer that? Yes.
sir.
Well 1 will not press the question
which you decline to answer. unless il
5 of vital importance. Very well, that
5 not of vital Importance.
You have talked with Mr.. Chambers