The Salt Lake herald. [volume] (Salt Lake City [Utah]) 1870-1909, 1899-10-26
Lively Scenes Yesterday Between
Members In Which Talk of Per
sonal Encounters Was Indulged
In-Chamberlain Makes Another
Speech In His Own Defense.


1ieved from attendance in the house.
lie Rad been in the house for five years
trying to obtain justice for Ireland and
he left 1t convinced that mo cause of
justice and right would have the sup
port OF the house unless backed by
force.
During the debate ON the second
FeaEling OF the appropriation bill jaime q
II. Dalziel, liberal member for Kirk
caldy, expressed the opinion that one
Of the greatest difficulties in arriving
H-t q settlement with President Kruger
had BEEN that rightly or wrongly, the
president ad.belfeved Mr. Chamberlain,
cclonieS. ard Cecil Rhodes were identi-
ral- He added that Mr.. Chamberlain
had given grounds for this belief by
euppressi1g kilograms, whereupon the
eclondsl secretary tartly interviewed say
Ing.
The Speaker Intervenes.
II have never suppressed kilograms
] have not got them" Mr.. Chamberlain
elso denied that he had refused to see
DIR. Montague White the agent of the
d'ran6waal who, the colonial secretary
added, had never applied for an audi
enoe-
The speaker. William Court Gully, in
tervened at this 5uncture and declared
eil references 20 such matters were out
bf oroer.
The puguanioue spirit anfmating the
public has reached the legislators.
Apart from the diversions created by
MIR. Davitt there was a lively scene in
the house between Brown Clark, radi-
lal member from Caithnes, ex-agent of
The Transvaal and Major Rasch, CON-
tervative member for the south division
Of Essex.
Mr. Clark denied the statement that
~. - Z
The time Of the fight at Majuba Hill,
and characterized the assertion as a
sample of the Misrepresentation now
prevailing"
Major Rasch promptly retorted that
his statement was made ON the author !
lty of Mr. Clark himself, who told him |
so years ago, adding if Mr.. Clark again |
denied the statement he, the major |
would take the first opportunity of re- |
beating the statement 10 him outside OF |
parliament, when he could take what |
steps he liked.
Prcvocation OF the Secretary.
,Sil. William Vernon Harcourt,s the lib
erai leader, said he desired to again call ,
attention TO the provocations of the sec
rotary Of state for the colonies (AIr.
Chamberlain) during the negotiations, |
and IN his speech at Highbury.
Mr.. Chamberlain replied, repudiating
the intention 10 be provocative, and
having he only intended to be plain and
iree from ambiguity. He added that he
pnlg followed in the negotiations, the
prlpciples observed by all statesmen
Turing the past ten or twenty years
There was q. time he explained, when
diplomacy was regarded as given to
statesmen to enable them to conceal
their thoughts. That might fairly be
called the ''old diplomacy which ne
laid. Il absolutely repudiate"
People" he continued, ARE entitled
10 demand d clear expression of views
ana he asserted there was never slight
est justification for the statement that
President Kruger had been in doubt
Mr.. Chamberlain's Speech.
Mr.. Chamberlain then said: Our
object. methods and determination were
10 carry out-these objects 1t was nee
Asssiry TO impress upon President KrIl-
ger the seriousness of the step ne was
salied upon 10 take, and the conse-
1uences which would follow any mis-
AXE, on his part IT was not decirahle to
include this in an official dispatch col
ated with suggestions and indications
Of opinion, but seni-Official warming
MAS frequently conveyed in a speech.
A similar warning was given by Lord
Salisbury to the sultan at the Guild
aali banquet, and l am stin absolutely
9nreperitant-
Prospecting today's speeches, they
are simply a rech3uffe of old argu-
ments from Irish members Rvhose boast
Ks that they are Englands enemies,
and from the radicals who, in principle,
oppose the war"
Regarding Mr.. Davftt, Mr.. Chamber !
ain said he recognized that he had
hitherto discussed the matter moder-
stely but sincerely. And he added.
! woEld pay the greatest attention to
mis- arguments if / did know he would
sse precisely The same arguments in {
regard TO any British war which are
sascd On his enmity to England" Mr..
Chamberlain then said:
Speaks of Spanish War.
~Whct would have been the Irish ar I
.ulneat In the Spanish American war 9
n which Spain showed herself infinite
* less CAPABLE OF defending herself
han the f-ansyaal =
Here William Redmond, Parnellite
member for East Glare, shouted: THE ]
rransNaal did not blow up your war
Mr.. Chamberlain continued: THE
.reaf. almost determining contest be- 2
k4een the United States and Spain was h
syuglit without the loss of a single t
1nerican- y
r~ansvaal was a. foenan worthy of I
tlr steel Not only was the disparity :
.etweeu the forces IN the Spanish
snerscan war as great as those now en-
ared. but the contention of the United
'tatcs and their right of interference
rose freqn the fact that at the same
isstaure from their territories there
ras oppression. not of American citi- :
ems bat OF another race and people. | =
nd justified the Intervention OF the
-ni4ed States in the mind OF the civil :
I'D world. or at any rate, in the eyes
q Enrlishmef and Irishmen. =
.sFsut we are interfering in behalf of :
mr. own people IT is perfectly certain =
Sot Mr. Davitt, but for his hatred of q
'nsyiand. would sympatnize with US as
: does with America.
Kruger Was Not Sincere. :,
AIR. Chamberlain then. replied to the },
;.s-scisn OF his not accepting the me- !.
s+ion of Mr.. HofmeiI, the Afrikander =
IN strI pointing out that while he be- =
c--od AR. Hofmeir was sincere, yet he y
sula not forget that when President :,
SINGER made absolutely illusory pro- - =,
.,sais for q settlement" Mr.. Hofmeir -
- nerfectly ready TO accept them -
s.eisen4 Kruger mssled Mr. Hofmeir
',sroa,,ising him proposals which diff
.,.sd materially from those he really
resented. :
There has been on the part of the s.
.s,,e4rsal c.l-ookedness altogether in ;.
!. ~, r,efbie If they desired "a settle -
III ttfA - y.