Deseret evening news. [volume] (Great Salt Lake City [Utah]) 1867-1920, 1899-01-23
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$50 O'Clock
II wns found On Friday evening that
the concluding debate would add such
large numbers that the second wari
meeting house would b. inadequate t.
seat or even hold small proportion ~
those who were doHiruus OF hearing the
concluding debate 30 the Opera house
was obtained aud was nlled from pit 20
dome. ana every available foot OF
standing room was occupied. including
the large stage. the boxes and aislca.
The chairman announced the subject
of the concluding debate aH follows
"Wcfoivcd that the ReorHnnikcd church
Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints
over which Jureph Smith now prcrldeS
~ the only icgai successor TO the
church organized on April 9Th. 1850"
Elder y. -. condit TO affirm. and Elder
Melvin j. ballard to deny.
ELDER coNDIT
"Aly friend last evening" said the
speaker. again claimed that Joseph
Smith Jr. was not the man. mighty and
strong who should be called Of God ~
recorded In the revelation, who should
lead Israel even ~ Moses led them.
aud who should set In order the church.
THAT young Joseph had failed In that
he had not nH yei made an at,emp, 20
redeem Zion. etc. isdt my friend has
failed To- show you wherein he has
failed" lie admitted. however. that
he had not yet redeemed Zion. but that
was all In which he had 10 fat failed.
My friend also told you last evening
that We do not pay tithlng or even be-
iicyc In the principle. This .mphnt-
icaiiy deny. We do believe In the rcve-
iation IN tlthing, and We practice IL.
The official records OF our church, ana
the paper which We publish viii show
this to be a fact' II viii also tell you
what II done with our tithlnE; how u II
used. By whom. for what PURPOSE. and
how much each person pay.
Concerning the asking OF Coo how We
should proceed to organize our church,
We had the right to ask Him this im-
Iiortant question, and " was the only
proper way To do when We were IN
doubt ~ to how We should proceed.
There ~ certainly nothing wrong In
this" I,eaHacrted that Joseph had re-
membered his ordination to the prcf.-
dency of the church under the hands
OF his father and ilyrum smith In LIB
erty Jail. clay CO.. Mo.
our position" said Elder condit. lis
that We deny that Jorcph Smith aud
Oliver cowdcry wer" ordained. by lay.
Ing on of hands, by Peter. James and
John. To- the Melchiscdck Priesthood.
They might have appeared and APP
poiutea-thrm to act In this authority
but IL was not necessarily essential
that ordination should b. by laying ON
Of hands" lie here claimed that an
Elder or High Priest could ordain
men 10 the ApostleHhip. because nm FL
der holds the Meichisedek Priesthood.
Upuotcd Dnctrins and Covenants, see.
100. verses To %
claimed that young Joseph had re-
celvcd under the hands OF his father
certain linenl blessings which should be-
conferred upon all his porterity after
him. That Hyrum Smith. the Pntri-
arch. and Don Carlos Smith and others
were not given any such blessings and
that among thehleaAlngh conferred upon
the Prophet Joseph was the blessings
OF Abraham; that through him aud
his seed after him should all the ma
lions OF the earth be blessed. ctc.
These were the main points which
Elder condit chung to all through the
debate: yet n was absolutely impoasi-
bile for him To prove any OF them To the
satisfaction Of the congregations.
ELDER BALLARDs REPLY.
In beginning his reply. Elder Ballard
called attention TO condirH first state
mcnt concerning the zone mighty aud
strong" that tho lic-organized church
claims TO be Joseph. 'lf, ~ my op.
ponent claims. Joseph should be the
one mighty and strong that should
lead the people ana set In order III.
church OF Christ. why did he not dis
play some Of the characteristics ~ that
man, who should he raised M at some
future time. like unto Moses Why
has he not gathered ana led Israeli
Why does he not set about his task2
Why this tagging and uncertainty on
hia part? " he II conversant with the
work required ~ him by the Lord, IL
u not time he was beginning the work.
What IN he doing towards accomplish
ing ~ can any one say mat he has
ever accomplished any great work. II
va, speak up. and tell Us what II II.
We want to know II n he has done any
of the great and marvellous works At
tributed 10 him by my friend on the
other side. That's what we came here
TO learn. to lind out what he has done.
IL now doing. and expects to do In the
future.
The speaker said. II ala not assert
last evening that the Josephlie church
do rot pay tlthlng. but do hold that
they do not live up 20 II as laid down In
the revelations on tlthlng m recorded
In section 10 Doctrine and Covenants"
MY friend told YOU every evening
Of this debate that at the time of the
organization Of their church. they were
Ia doubt as Ia how to proceed, They
went and asked the Lord to Please tell
them how To organize. What d.
lcmmn 20 be placed In and yet the Lord
told tho Prophet Joseph az the time ~
INC bfkhilthtlou Ut iHt 'nuftU w lNau
that this Gospel, this Priesthood, had
been established upon the earth for the
last time. with all It's gifts and bless
ings. yea. even In It's fullneas. never
more 10 be taken away or given "a an
other people, They Were In this pecu-
liar position In 1850 and 1859.
when the question OF succcssorship 10
the original Church was ngltatlng tho
minds OF the people OF his opponent.
Twenty years after the Church had
been organized and revelations given
for It's guidance they. (the JoscphlteD
did not know how to organize. Does
this show that they were guided by tho
spirit of inspiration or by open rovela-
ton? Certainly not. Did Peter. James
and John appear ngain In these years
~ doubt and confusion among these
factions, and confer upon young Jos
eph the Molchiscdek Priesthood az thay
ana In the case Of Joseph the Prophet
Certainly not. then whore did he get
his nuthorltyg'
II deny" said Elder Ballard. "the
right Of an Elder 20 ordaln a High
Priest, or High Priest nm
Apostle. A stream cannot rise
above It's source, and as an Elder
II the nrst step In the higher, or Mel
chisedek priesthood. does IL look rea-
sonable that ns such he could ordain n
man To the Apostleshlp, than which au-
thority there II no higher or greater
In the Gift al Tod to MANI
The speaker, concluding, said the an-
Client Apostles, Peter, Jafnes and John.
did appear unto Joseph Smith and