The sun. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1833-1916, 1899-10-15

!
be found In pagan literature existing
long before the time Of Christ Now
| ] And that my critic has not affected these
points in the least, but has actually confirmed
| them by his references, as I will soon show Fol
| example he has asserted that the Jews did have
some ideas OF future state. which Is quite true
| and has not been denied by me But insist
that these ideas were very slight and vague, as
have said already. and that the Jews had no clearly
defined ideas on the subject the called pag
all around them had What the Jews or Christians
finally got they seem undoubtedly to have absorbed
from these pagans Indeed, the quotation
from Ecclesiasticus xii T. given by "Scholasticus'
fully sustains my point, as IL Is in itself good
instance OF this very vagueness of the Jewish
belief though II seems to be about the best for his
purpose which the whole Jewish Scripture affords:
"Thc body shall return TO the earth as IL was and
the spirit shall return to & cd who gave it," This
is very vague statement for personal i'm
as IL can be made to 1T the Platonic Buddhistic
conception or even the annihilistic, Just well
as tho Christian or Socratic, ifnot better. Fur
,hermore | will remind "Schoasticus' that this In
an unfortunate reference for him and proves my
case and not his for according TO modern Biblical
critics this Scripture belongs TO later period of
Jewish history about 200 b. C., when they had
been more influenced by pagan beliefs. and not 10
the period Of the Original" Jews; and he will also
please remember that Platos "Phaedo" to which
have referred, antedates Ecclesiasticus by about
200 years. Let any one now read, not only the
verse quoted, but the whole chapter referred to
and then compare IL with tho exposition OF the
Greek doctrine by Socrates in two or three pages
of Plato's "Phaedo," and he will sec that my point
is impregnable beyond questionable jewish
Scripture containing nothing but the vaguest
statement. whereas the Socratc scripture has the
fullest and clcarest possible statement almost II
not identical with the detailed belief Of the ortho-
dox Christian.
For example. contrast the vague phrase Just
quoted from the Hebrew Scripture with these lucid
extracts from the Socratc scripture.
Those also who are remarkable for having led
holy lives released from this earthly prison tho
first state OF the deadl and 60 TO their pure home
which is above and dwell in the purer earth 1.-THE
ond statel: and those who have duly purined them
selves with philosophy wisdom and righteousness
live henceforth altogether without the body in man
sions falrer far than these which may not be de-
scrbed, and OF which the time would fall me to tell.
Therefore say. let man be OF good cheer
about his soul who has cast away the pleasures and
ornaments OF the body as allen to him. and rather
hurtful in their effects. and has followed after the
pleasures OF knowledge in this fe who has adorned
the soul in her own proper Jewels. which temper
and Justice and courage and nobility and truth
In these arayed she Is ready to her Journey to
the world below when her time comes. /"
Then. Cebes. beyond question the soul is immortal
and impcrlshable and souls will truly exist in
another world But then, o my friends, he
said. II the soul is reay immortal what care should
be taken OF her not only In respect OF the portion OF
time. which Is called life. but OF eternity And the
danger OF negectng her from this point OF view does
indeed appear to be awful II death had only been
the end OF all. the wicked would have had good
bargain In dying, for they would have been happily
quit not only OF their body but OF their evil TO-.
gether with their souls But now the soul plainly
appears TO be immortal there is release salvation
from evil except the attainment OF the highest virtue
and wisdom. "-Pldso's Phasdo j psns formulation.
Now, let lis take up the Apostles Creed for a
moment and note some Of the Greek or Socratic
doctrines it contains He descended into hell
the third day He rose again from tho dead: He
assembled into heaven" The Church takes pains
10 explain that the hell" hero referred to is not
the hell Of the damned, but the limbo" or pro
paratory prison In which tho redeemed souls are
held previous TO their release and ascent to heaven
How this corresponds to the earthly prison" of the
Socratc scripture, to which this soul first "des
cends." and to the pure home which is above to
which it afterward "ascends" and to mansions
farer." etc, is obvious and needs no further re-
mark from me. Note also how the seventh
had vision which he could not even describe,
corresponds to what Socrates limited at
My challenge therefore still holds perfectly
good to Jew or Christian to And anywhere in their
own Scriptures so full clear and simple a state
mcnt Of personal immortality and future rewards
and punishments as could be got from the mouth
Of Socrates in Plato's Phaedo, about two hundred
years before Ecclcsiasticus was written, about
four hundred before Christ spoke on earth, and
about five hundred years before a word Of the
Gospel was inscribed.
Now, finally. as to the inconsistency with which
"Scholasticus" charges me in reference to Plato
1t will be noted that stated that Plato's doctrine
to which "Scholasticus" referred for support was
not like the Christian doctrine at all: that yet in
Platos "Phaedo" would be found a better state
ment OF Christian doctrine than can be found in
the Christian Scriptures themselves. Now. these
are simply historic literary facts aud there is no
Inconsistency in the least because the fact il that
Socrates and his pupil Plato taught different doc
trines, and, in the "Phaedo," Plato describes the
teaching of Socrates. which, as ! have shown, is
practically identical with the Christian belief
Plato own belief or doctrine, however as Is shown
at several points in his works is quite different
from this, and seems to be an immortality in which
personality il eItingushed but the essential
elements or substance" OF the soul whatever
they be- are absorbed again in the Infinite. This
is practically the same the doctrine of Buddba.
who preceded Plato only about 100 to 200 years,
and is quite analogous TO the doctrine Of modern
chemistry and physics as regards all matter" or
substance. This is also the kind OF Immortality
which Schopenhauer believed in and not the
Christian kind. as "Scholasticus" seems to think.
Socrates and Plato may indeed be said to be
the greatest opponents Of the doctrine of the soul
and its Immortality. without exception, that ever
existed in ancient times or perhaps in any time,
and between them they seem TO have used
about every argument that has ever been used
anywhere since. Socrates, however favored the
popular personal" conception. such as prevailed
among the ancient Greeks and Romans, and is now
professed by the Christian world; whereas Plato,
who was greater traveller and wider student,
seems to have favored the more subtle "imper-
sonal" conception the more tenable such as
prevails in the Buddhist and Oriental world
BROOKLYN Oct. II. CHAs. NJ. HIGGINS
Hope That the Discussion Will Continue.
To THE EDITOR OF THE SUN,-Sir: 1t is
greatly 10 be wished that there will be no truce
called to this discussion, as suggested in days
SrN. For, as you say in former editorial,