The farmer and mechanic. [volume] (Raleigh, N.C.) 18??-19??, 1898-06-21
FOLLY AND OELUS!ON"
80 NECESSITY FOR EMPLOYING
LOBBYISTS OR AGENTS.
MONEY SHOULD BE RETURNED CONGRESS
Notifying 10 a Great Religious Society"
Said Senator, No Arrangement made
for Paying Out a Single Dollar
for Lobbying"

hours to-day the Senate had under dis
ucSsion the resolution Of Mr.. Lodge
t2iass.). directing the claims committee
to make III inquiry as to the disposition
of the money appropriated by Congress
to pay the claim of the Book Concern of
the Methodist Episcopal church, South.
\ heated coiioquay between Nj. Ch&nA-
Ter n. IL, and Mr.. Pasco Cifla.), was
the feature Of the discussion. Mr.. Ha-
con CGa.D, opened the debate. lie said
he had not the rcmotcst suspicion that
anybody who was working for the claim
here had any pccuniary interest i'll its
passage.
He had had a conversation on the
subject with Major Il. Il. Stahlman, who
had received 80 per cent. of the claim
paid. and the impression left upon him
was that not Il dollar Of the money was
to he paid to lobbyists. MIR. Stahlman,
said Mr.. Bacon, stated there was no ar
IanGcment or contract whereby anybody
was to be paid Il single dollar except
possibly a small amount for expenses.
Mr.. Bacon thought the idea that the
Calm was Iobbied through Congress was
absolutely abhorrent to Senators, and to
those who supported it.
lie would not have voted for the claim
had he known that any such amount as
%tO0. 900 was to bc paid to an agent. L
deplorc this matter and / regret it OK
tremely." said Mr.. Bacon. Ion account
OF the modification which must come
TO a great religious society which oh
tanned money under any arrangement
that Sayorcd in the slightest way of false
pretcnSeS.'
Mr.. Lindsay lNy.). related the details
of a conversation which he had had with
Major Stahlman, who had told him that
NO fees were to he paid out Of the APP
preparation except possibly $1,000 or
5000 as necessary expenses.
Mr.. Hoar (Mass.l believed this was
an Opportune time to say to the country
that i'll the presentation Of just claims to
Congress there was never Il necessity
for the employment of agents or lobby
lists. When it was known that Il claim
was being promoted by agents or lob
Twists it was actually endangered. Con-
corning the present matter Mr.. lioar
said he would not declare it Il pure
SWindlC. but 1T was an utter biundcr,
folly and delusion. The church ought
ut once to pay back to the government
the money received under the appro-
r~riation and the man who received the
100000. if he ever expects to have Il
shred of character to his back ought 10
give up the money!
Mr.. Chandler desired it to be under
stood that the present matter could not
ne settled by the disclaimer of false in
tent by those who pushed the claim
through the Senate. He maintained that
the money ought to be returned to Con-
GreSs. If Stahlman should refuse to
relinqui$h his gains, the church ought
to proceed against him to recover the
money. It was perfectly clear. said he,
that as the Book Concern was Il corpo-
ration the mon who had made the con
tract with Stahlman had no authority
to pay tho amount agreed upon. Mr..
Chandler declared that the Senate had
been grossly and ~outragcouslv deceived
and that the Senator. Mr.. rasco. had
been the agent. unwittin-ly. Of the dc
ccDtion.
Mr.. Pasco: "Jhe Senator knows I
ann incapable Of deceiving the Senate"
Mr.. Chandler: '"Thc Senate WAS &c
ceivcd and the Senator from Florida
WIS the agent of the deception, un-
Willingly, ] have no doubt
Mr.. Bacon felt that Mr.. Chandler was
doing an Injustice to Mr.. Pasco. who had
been deceived himself. He protested tina
1t WAS unjust to place Mr.. Pasco in
that kind of position while it was owl
dent he himself had been imposed upor.
Mr.. Chandler replied that he had dis
claimed any unkind or unjust imputation
upon Mr.. PaSco. I'VE nl were dc
ceived.' said he, "and Barhce and Smith
did it,
Il ask the Senator from New Hamp-
shire to retract absolutely those words
which indicated that | was an agent of
deception practiced upon tn" Senate. |
cannot remain patient under such an
imputation,' said Mr.. Pasco.
Il DO not know what the Senator can
do" retorted Mr.. Chandler. IF he can
say or do anything about it | wish he
would DO SO. in order that | may pro-
coed with my speech. ! have stated he
did not willingly or Willingly deceive the
Senate and that ought to be enough"
Il want the Senator's words to ON
body the absolute facts said Mr.. Pas
GO, hotly.
We'll. / d~ecline.' replied Mr.. Chand-
Ter. "to permit the Senator to put words
INTO MY mouth"
i desire to say, then" said Mr.. Pas
60, that any statement that ] WAS an
agent in the deception of the Senate in
this matter is without foundation. and
the Senator from New Hampshire knows.
it."
We'll. Mr.. PRESIDENT declared Mr..
Chandler, the truth is the exact oppo-'
site of that statement
Mr.. Iillman IS. c. did not believe
that the money ought to be returned to
the government as the claim was primal
rily Il just one.
But. | want to say. Mr.. PRESIDENT
he declared. that the Methodist church
ought to make Stallman disgorgc.''
The resolution was further discussed
by Mr.. Teller (Col.), Mr.. Morgan GAln.).
Mr.. Berry CArk.), and Mr.. Wilson
NNaSh.). 1t finally went over until to-
morrow.