The news & observer. [volume] (Raleigh, N.C.) 1894-current, 1898-06-14
{" FOLLY AND OELUSION"
no NECESSITY FOR EMPLOYING
LOBBYISTS OR AGENTS.
MONEY SHOULD BE RETURNED CONGRESS
" Notifying 10 a Great Religious Society"
Said Senator, " No Arrangement made
for Paying Out Single Dollar
for Lobbying"
for Lobbying. -

tOi NoNSJt"S'
Washington. June 13.-For nearly two
hours to-day the Senate had under dis
ucssion the resolution of Mr.. Lodge
CAIass.), directing the claims committee
to make an inquiry as to the disposition
of the money appropriated by Congress
to pay the claim of the Book Concern of
the Methodist Episcopal church, South.
A heated colloquoy between Mr. Chand-
Ter N. H., and Mr.. Pasco lF'la.), was
the feature of the discussion. Mr.. Ba-
con (Ga.), opened the debate. He said
he had not the remotest suspicion that
anybody who was working for the claim
here had any pecuniary interest in its
passage.
He had had a conversation on the
subject with Major +. B. Stahlman, who
had received 81 per cent. of the claim
paid, and the impression left upon him
was that not dollar Of the money was
to be paid to lobbyists. Mr.. Stahlman,
said Mr. Bacon. stated there was no ar
rangemeut or contract whereby anybody
was to be paid a single dollar except
possibly a small amount for expenses
Mr.. Bacon thought the idea that the
Calm was Iobbied through Congress was
absolutely abhorrent to Senators, and TO
those who supported it.
He would not have voted for the claim
had he known that any such amount as
100000 was to be paid to an agent
deplorc this matter and | regret lt eX-
| tremely." sand Mr.. Bacon. ION account
| of the modification which must come
n afrNa Ia
| tanned money under any arrangement
| that savored in the slightest way of false
| pretenseS.
Mr.. Lindsay tRy). related the details
of a conversation which he had had with
Major Stahlman. who had told him that
no fees were To be paid out OF the APP
preparation except possibly $2,oOO or
S.. 500 as necessary expenses.
Mr. Hoar (Mass) believed this was
an opportune time to say to the country
that i'm the presentation of just claims to
Congress there was never Il necessity
for the employment of agents or lobby
lists. When il was known that n claim
was being promoted by agents or lob
byiSts il was actually endangered. Con
cerning the present matter Mr. Hoar
said he would not declare il pure
swindle, but lit was an utter blunder'
folly and delusion. The church ought
at once to pay back 10 the government
the money received under the appro-
priation and the man who received the
100000. if he ever expects to have
shred of character to his back ought to
give up the money"
Mr.. Chandler desired it to be under
stood that the present matter could not
he settled by the disclaimer of false in
tent by those who pushed the claim
through the Senate. He maintained that
the money ought to be returned to Com
gress. If Stahlman should refuse to
relinquish his gains, the church ought
to proceed against him to recover the
money 1t was perfectly clear, said he.
that as the Book Concern was Il corpo-
ration the men who had made the con
tract with Stahlman had no authority
to pay the amount agreed upon. Mr..
Chandler declared that the Senate had
been grossly and outrageously deceived
and that the Senator, Mr.. PascO, had
been the agent, unwttingly of the de-
ception.
Mr.. Pasco: "Thc Senator knows 7
am incapable Of deceving the Senate"
Mr.. Chandler: "Hhe Senate was de-
ceived and the Senator from Florida
was the agent of the deception un-
Wlttngly, L nave no doubt.
Mr. Bacon felt that Mr. Chandler was
doing an injustice to Mr. Pasco. who had
been deceived himself. He protested that
it was unjust to place Mr.. Pasco in
that kind of position while it was eyi-
dent he himself had been imposed upon.
Mr. Chandler replied that he had dis
claimed any unkind or unjust imputation
upon Mr.. Pasco. "We all were de-
ceived" said he, ''and Barbee and Smith
did it,"
II ask the Senator from New Hamp-
shire to retract absolutely those words
which indicated that l was an agent of
deception practiced upon the Senate. |
cannot remain patient under such an
imputation." said Mr.. Pasco.
Il do not know what the Senator can
do" retorted Mr. Chandler. IF he can
say or do anything about it wish he
would do So in order that / may pro-
ceed with my speech. / have stated he
did not willingly or Willingly deceive The
Senate and that ought to be enough"
II want the Senator's words to en-
body the absolute facts, said Mr.. Pas
co, hotly.
"Well. | decline" replied Mr.. Chand-
Ter, 'to permit the Senator to put words
into my mouth"
II desire to say, then" said Mr.. Pas
co. "that any statement that / was an
agent i'm the deception Of the Senate in
this matter is without foundation, and
Continued on Second Page)