davidaulloa/AmericanStories huggingface dataset:
Richmond dispatch. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1884-1903, 1897-07-20
D = Pr D Richmond, FT8ieTiCES-
Ny l. " l. DuTg 4 Potomac.
Schedule ia Eject April 10, ioo'.
LEAVE BNRD-sTREEr STATION.

Schedule ia Eject April 10, iSo1
LEAVE BNHD-sTREET STATION.
$40 A. NJ, Sunday only. for washing
ton and points North. stops
at Elba. Glen Alien Ash
land. boswell kuther Glen.
Pcn0la. Milford Guinea,
FredercksbUIg Brooke and
s45A. NJ, Daily. except sunday for
Va hiuRtJu ana points
North. stops at E.ba. Ash
land, Fayetteville. boswell
Ruther Glen, Penoit MI
ford Woodslane. Guinea.
Summit, Fredericksburg,
Brooke. and whitewater
1900 n. baiiy except Sunday. for
Washington and points
North. stops az ElPa. .s Gl9n
Allen. Ashland ana ., Rto awe,
Brooke. and Whitewater
ParlOr-car. Also. connects
with Congressional Limited
az Washington
715 p. NJ, Daily. for W9eshinsto.1r l., ana
Ashland. boswell. MILFORD.
Freierlcksburg Brooke, and
Whitewater and other sta
lions Sundays sleeper
Richmond tc New York
ARRIVE BYRD-sTREET sfAIioN'
sac 4. Al. DaIy. 0sop9 @l v, 'u'~ 49,
ford boswell Ashland. and
E!ba. aad other stations
Sundays. sleeper. New YORK
10 Richmond.
245 P. NJ. Daily eHcept sunday; stops
Fredericksburg, Summit,
Guinea. WoOdsiane. Milford
Peu0l3 Rutner Glen. Dos
Well. TayiOrsylNe. Ashland.
Glen Allen ard ElDd. Par
lOr-car from Washington.
no p NJ. Daily. Stops only al frcle-
ricksburg. boswell. and Ash
land. Pullman ears from
New York and Washington.
SAG p. NJ, Daily. Stops az Whitewater.
Brooke, Fredericksburg,
Summit, Guinea WOOdslane.
Milford. penoia, Ruthcr
Glen, boswell Ashland
Glen Allen, and Eiba sleep
lug-car
FREDERICKsB'G ACCOMMODATION.
DAILY except SundayJ
900 p NJ, Leaves Byrd-Street Station.
$50 A. NJ. Arrives ById-Street Station.
ASHLAND TRAINS.
DAILY except Sunday
6.f2 A. NJ, Leaves Elba.
$50 p. NJ, Leaves Elba.
GAO 4. NJ, Arrives Elba.
800 r. NJ, Arrives Elbo.
C. A. TAYLOR. Traffic Manager
F. T. y. MYERS. PRECEDENT. te 2
Richmond dispatch. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1884-1903, 1897-07-20
TRAINS ARRIVE RICHMOND.

ANA NJ. Daily. from JacksOnFli.. $40
Ndnnah. Charleston. At.
Macon Augusta, ana
points South
aka NJ. Daily, except sunday Ai-
o." 80 lauta, Athens. Raleigh h-l-
derson. Bynclhufg. H.i ta'
rs ISL.
sa-A NJ. Daily. Petersburg Io.Il
Son 4 ~. Sunday only lf0u .rH
Athens. RAJ Ign Bond i'
IynchbUrg. end OH. |r
,,.osA NJ. Daily. Norfolk s.tl.t. 4nl
Petersbui
AMP NJ Daily Jacks0nY II. t-
nah. Charleston. H..i'
ton. GoIdsDOrO 900 t
points South
-.Oo y NJ. Daily. Norfolk. Suroik. Mt-
verify, and Peters
s..0 y n Daily Petersburg ltntA-
burg. and n
o.so A NJ. sunday acc0mmll f'ln.
g9. y Nj sunday acror mu..
u. So EMERSON,
p KENNY. Traffic Manager
~ - Campbell.
"a Division paesclgef ht N"
Richmond dispatch. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1884-1903, 1897-07-20

Orders for printing sent 10 tn Dispatch
Company will be given prompt attention.
and the style of work and prizes Will ~
sure to please you.
Richmond dispatch. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1884-1903, 1897-07-20
SASH, noon. AND Box-MAKER.
WRIT A. CHESTERMAN,

SASH. DOOR. AND BoX-FAcToRY.
TAYLOR AND RESERVOIR STREETS
de 2-Tu The Su6m)
Richmond dispatch. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1884-1903, 1897-07-20

orders for printing sent to the Dispatch
Company viii be given prompt attention.
and the style OF work and prices WIN W
sure to please you. -,l .-aB1 SIZE zl,,Sf1
Richmond dispatch. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1884-1903, 1897-07-20
4 n 7 ATLANTlC.COAST
Il, VI L. LINE.
Schedule a. Effect MnS 10, 1897.
TRAINS LEAVE HICHMONi-t MON


o.OOA. NJ. Daily Arrives Petersburg
y.8l a. ~. Norfolk ~ o.
H. stops only 90 lc-cisD .ia'
Naverly. and SunoiN, NJ.
Dos A. NJ, Daily Arrive. fetei.,,,t
$50 A.. NJ. Weldon I ID
A. NJ. Fayetteville il D.
81. Charleston l0D b. SD
Savannah 1850 A. o., Jt.t
Fouyill. $3.50 a. I. BOG.
Tampa GO j.. 81. CON
or Wilson with ESQ. ts
r.ug G0lashOro' ..t .if
Wilmington go f. l tA.-
man sleeper Sew lc.k -
2.55P p. NJ, Daily. Local Arrives Pc.
tersburg gg z. NJ Makes
5aoP N Iai.y.o Arrives Petersburg
6l9 r. ~. Makes 80 Local
stops. Richmond ana Peters,
73OP. NJ. Baiiy. Arrives Petersburg
'"' -'-'' SGi p ST. conre.r with
Norfolk and Western for
Norfolk and inf. mediate
points. Emp0rIa 800 Nlh-
meets with a. and ID fof
stations between otl
and LawreucfFilD. hNl|.
942 b. NJ. Fayetteville
a. d.. Charleston d W. a At
Savannah hO6 A. a.. ja'h-
sonvllio ! p. 81, Fort Iam.'
NEW LINE TO MIDDLE
GEORGIA POINTS Ilf-
Ing AIKEN 7.g3 A. b.. Angus
ta $40 A. NJ Nacln - ~.
NJ. Atlanta 1876 b. ~. PuI'
man Sleepers Sew YORK %
Wilmington. JHoksQntII',
Port Tampa. Aiken. Aus
"a. and Macon.
.I.5O p. NJ. Daily. arrives l.terst ~
1885 A. 81, LyuchbIrb
A NJ. Ronnokc 100 a. 30
Bristol Il5 D. 81 Pullman
Sleeper Richmond 10 Lyncn-
s.59P NJ. Daily. Arrives Petersbur,
gM r. 81. Weldon ll ID b.
NJ Makes local stops BE-
tween Petersburg and Vol
don
7,35A sunday acC9WmOl I0n.
makes an stops Richmond
and Petersburg railroad
AN - NJ. SUM day accommodate.
makes all stops Richmond
and Petersburg railroad
Richmond dispatch. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1884-1903, 1897-07-20
Effective July >, 1897.
TRAINS LEAVE RICHMOND, BROAD
STREET STATION.

$50 A. NJ, Daily, with Parlor car. for
Norfolk. Portsmouth. Ola
Point Newport News, and
local stations.
3 30 z. NJ, Daily, with Pullman for
local stations, Newport
News, Old Po.lt. Norfolk,
and Portsmouth. Connects
daily with Old Dominion
steamship for New York.
D:2O \. NJ, Local train. with par
lor-car. except Sunday
Tor kOnCeVerte. Connects
at Gordonsville for
Orange, Culpeper, Calycr-
to-, Manassas, Alexandra,
and Washington; 40 Union
Station, Charlottesville for
LynchDufg' at Basic FOR ha-
gerstOwn.
2:15 z. NJ, Daily. with Pullmans 90 Cir
cinn3u Louisville. and ST.
Louis. stops only at impor-
t8nl stations. Connects at
CQVngtOn daily for Virginia
Hot Springs Meals served
on Dining cars. 10. :, Local
Train. except Sunday, fol-
lows above train from Cor
louisville 90 Goshen.
: 80 p NJ, Accommodation except Sun
day for Charlottesville
D:sO p. NJ, Daily for Cincinnati. With
L. f. Y. Pullm1ns 10 Hinton. w VA.
and GOrdOnsyille 90 Cnciu-
natl and Louisville. Meals
served on dIuing-Cars. Con-
meets at St3untOg. except
Sunday, for " lchester, Va,
and at CoyinGtOu. Va. daily,
Tor Hot SPRINGS
Richmond dispatch. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1884-1903, 1897-07-20

255 r. NJ,
$50 T. 81
80 r. NJ.
Richmond dispatch. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1884-1903, 1897-07-20
2:15 z. NJ.
53OP NJ.

10 30 L. NJ,
f. f. Y.
The labor world. [volume] (Duluth, Minn.) 1896-current, 1897-11-27
GAS AND WATER.
Wha> Figures Reveal in Con-
noction With the Present
Proposition.

The last price put on the
gas and water plant by the
gentlemen represented by Mr..
Gay was $1,450,O00 in 4 per
cent bonds. The present price
is 81 ,25O,O00 in 5 per cent bonds.
Let us see just what the diff
ference is:
Under the $1,450,0O0 propo-
sition the city of Duluth in 80
years would pay for the pres
ent plants $58,000 per year in
terest, or a total for the whole
period of $1,740,000, plus the
principal, 81, 100000, making a
grand total of So, 10000.
Under the 81, ,250,000 PROPOSE
ton the interest will amount
at 5 per cent to $62,50O, or for
the entire ~ years, to $780,
600; to which add the princi-
pal, 81 ,25O,OOO, and you have a
grand total of $3,125,0OO.
The difference is just $685.
900. When one hears the self
complacent chatter indulged
in by the friends of the present
city administration over the
wonderful success of that Chi
cago embassy of our worthy
mayor, he is irresistably re-
m inded of an old hen that has
just discovered the presence OF
a wooden nest egg.
The labor world. [volume] (Duluth, Minn.) 1896-current, 1897-11-27
that the whole game is one of
cheat and murder? r.

Lock at the millions of play:
ers killed in war. And war is
part of the game. They ever
call it the glorious and heroic
part where good and true
patriots lay down their lives in
defense of the boarded plunder
some greedy and brutal player
has accumulated, while some
other player who has lost his
deal refuses to submit to the
rules and demands new shut
file of the cards. =
Oh, it is a brutal, hellish,
bloody game, and the very soil
is sinking with the blood and
decaying bodies of those who
lost and were slain by the
lucky winners. j
And still you do not want to
change the rules of the game.
You think it is sufficient to go
about and reform one man
here and another one over
there, forgetting that the old
system will drive him back
into the horrible game before
your words have died out of
his ears. &.
You might as we'll attempt
to bail out the sea with, one of
your slippers, pouring the
water into a creek that win,1s
around the hill and emptias
into the same dirty pool from
which you are bailing.
Listen! The game is On
now. Did you hear that re-
port of d pistol? Some poor,
discouraged player has blown
his brains out. Listen again!
Do you hear those groans?
They came up from the hun
cry and the starving and from
those who are trying to leave
the game through the .poiilpn
route.
Oh, it is horrible to those
who can hear all the groans
and sighs and curses and gun
shots coming up from this
gambling hell, and can see the
bloody \ fingermarks every
where.
But it does no good to close
your ears and let the game go
on. You are in the game your
self and must play the cards to
the bitter end.
Shall the system be changed?
Are you not tired and horrifed,
helping to carry out and cover
up the dead?
The labor world. [volume] (Duluth, Minn.) 1896-current, 1897-11-27
Should Stand by the Boys.

Editor Labor World:
Allow me to say a few words and at
the same time congratulate union
labor on it's choice of candidate
in the News Tribune q contest.
This has been con test that has again
brought the workingman to the front
It shows plainly that anything they
take hold of can be accomplished with
favorable results. I believe the late
contest was the most original ever
brought before the public, and was pop
ular with all classes of citizens. 1t
proved a pleasure and pastime for
hundreds, and resulted in victory for
the union workmen of Duluth. The
generous recognition by the News
Tribune of the second candidate has
greatly pleased the numerous friends of
Mr.. Kriz.
But the work of the union men is not
ended at electing their choice to the
Klondyke. They should bear in mind
that they have chosen this man to leave
his home and family for at least year,
or maybe two. Let me suggest that
the union men take up subscription,
or your valuable paper could be used
for tho purpose, to provide fund to
take care of the wife and family of the
union mons choice while he is away on
their errand of inquiry, for upon his
message depends the future of many
union men; if it be favorable many will
go; if it be unfavorable much suffering
and loss of time and money will be
saved. Therefore, stand by your choice
until the last. See that nothing is lost
to this brave man or his family, and by
SO doing you will have nothing to lose
but will gain much.
THos. HANNIBAL.
The labor world. [volume] (Duluth, Minn.) 1896-current, 1897-11-27

This was true even under pri-
vate capitalism, despite the
prodigious waste and friction
of it's methods; but of course
it is a far more important truth
now when the machinery of
cooperation runs with abso-
lutte smoothness and every
ounce of energy is utilized to
the utmost effect. The ele-
ment in the total industrial
product which is due to the
social organism is represented
by the difference between the
value of what one man pro-
duces as worker in connec-
ton with the social organiza-
ton and what he could produce
in a condition of isolation.
Working in concert with his
fellows by and of the social or
ganism, he and they produce
enough to support in all the
highest luxury and refinement.
Toiling in isolation, human ex-
perience has proved that he
would be fortunate if he could
at the utmost produce enough
to keep himself alive. It is es-
tinated, 1 believe, that the
average daily product of a
worker in America today is
some fifty dollars. The pro-
duct of the same man working
in isolation would probably be
highly estimated on the same
basis of calculation if put at a
quarter of a dollar.
I "Now tell me, Julian, to
whom belongs the social or
ganism, this vast machinery
of human association, which
enhances some two hundred
fold the product of every ones
1abor?"
"Manifestly," l replied, lit
can belong to no one in partic-
ular, but to nothing less than
society collectively. Society
collectively can be- the only
heir to the social inheritance
of intellect and discovery, and
it is society collectively which
furnishes the continuous daily
concourse by which alone that
inheritance is made effective"
EXACTLY so. The social or
ganism, with all that it is and
all it makes possible, is the in
divisib1e inheritance of all in
common. To whom, then,
properlyog4 belongs that two
hundred-fold enhancement of
the value of every ones labor
which is owing to the social
organism?" :.
"Manifestly to society collec-
tively-to the general fund" -
From Edward Bellamy's
Equality"
The labor world. [volume] (Duluth, Minn.) 1896-current, 1897-11-27
RULES OF THE GAME.
Poison Thorn in Appeal to
Reason Describes the Game
of Competition.
The He'll That Uph0lders OF
Present Conditions Desire
to Perpetuate.

Often you hear some OF the
plutocratic newspapers pitch
ing into some skinflint for his
barbarous treatment of his
wage slaves, but you never
hear a genuine plute paper
saying a word against the sys-
tenn that makes all this barbar-
ity possible.
All these skinflints who rob
and plunder the poor and re-
duce them to the verge of star
vation are playing the game OF
competition in strict accord
ance with the established rules
of the game.
Pullman, Rockefeller, Carne-
gle, Grover Cleveland, Mark
Hanna, Mckinley, and the
whole whooping horde OF
whining, whiskered, white
livered plunderers of the mis-
erable poor, are playing the
game of civilized robbery ex-
actly in harmony and in ac-
cordance with the accepted
rules laid down by those who
have for years been controlling
the brutal game.
1t is not the men playing,
even though they play the
game so brutal that charitable
people are Mortified, against
whom the fight of socialism is
made. They are not to blame
for the system. It was here
and firmly established long be-
fore, they were born.
The rules governing the
:game of competition are as old
:as history-yes, as old as ami
NAL life. It's laws are the privi-
lege of might, crowning the
1most brutal of the brutes with
authority granted by the great
est of the very meanest on
earth, and no man with spark
of charity or love or justice in
his heart can play a winning
hand.
Those who are "playing to
luck" as the gamblers say, are
men who follow close to the
laws governing the game, and
God help all those who stay in
the game with them.
Unlike all other games we
have all got to show our hand
every day and play to the bit
ter end, no odds how disgust
ing and painful the game
proves to be.
And don't talk about reform
ing the world while this sys-
tenn of plunder goes on. Don't
talk about converting men to
God as a means of reforming
the world and then turn these
new converts out to play the
old barbarous game of compe'
tition for their daily meal.
Don't look shocked when
you hear of statesmen and
judges and private individuals
.betraying a trust, or being de
:tected of cheating.
The game not only allows
cheating, but bestows honors
ON the successful player wh<
cheats and gains by it. It is
only when you cheat and fai
that the rules bar you but fol
a few years.
Don't try to look shocked
over the news that the opera
tors of some mine or factory O.
mill have ground their EN-
ployes down to system o
barbarity where they ca1
scarcely get food enough t.
keep the immortal souls (which
the great God almighty gav'
themselves and family, il
their scrawny bodies. Tn
The labor world. [volume] (Duluth, Minn.) 1896-current, 1897-11-27

rules of the game allow it, and
the government stands ready
with guns and looted players
to 90 out and shoot into tn ese
scrawny bodies of the employees
if they dare to throw down
their hands and demand a new
deal.
And don't be surprised at
the grinding encroachments OF
trusts and combines and your
impotency to stop them. 1t is
part of the game and the
Judges and statesmen who tol-
crate and countenance and en-
courage these combines are
getting part of the Jackpot
when it is raked home.
And the game allows it, too.
Nothing is too mean nor too
brutal, if the player but does it
all according to the orthodox
rule of competition.
There are jails and prisons
to lock up the players who can
not hide their cards after steal
ing them, and poorhouses, and
homes for the old players who
have lost 80 gradually and
slowly that they were not
driven to suicide, like the play
ers who lose all in a single
game and then go out and
blow their brains out.
Don't try to look shocked at
the sight of jails and poor
houses for they are only part
of the game and stand back a
little farther from the cheat
end of the table than those
churches where poor man
cannot enter and find a wei
come from those who have
been "playing to luck
There are houses of prostitu-
ton between these two rows OF
public buildings, but don't con-
denim the women who are
playing at this end of the table.
They are only playing their
best card to win bread, cloth
ing and shelter. This is what
we are all playing for and fol-
lowing lives of the least resist
ance in our efforts to get it.
Don't blame the poor women.
They are only playing their
best card in this damnable
game of competition. The
honorable means of winning
bread and to win it without re-
sorting to slavery or crime are
growing scarcer every year.
The harlot is no worse than
the plunderer of starving chill
dren-no, not half so bad in the
eyes of just God, unless even
the Almighty is playing along
with those who are winning all
the pots.
But don't blame God for all
the barbarous and inhu man
torture brought on through
this awful game. The game is
strictly human-the competi-
tive battle for bread.
And it is being played now
more fierce and cruel than
ever. Those who are "p1aying
to luck" are resorting to all
manner of mechanical devices
to manipulate the cards and to
crowd men away from their
place at the table.
In thousands of places where
you could find a man playing
twenty-five years ago you will
now find a machine or patent
device attached to the table
performing all that a man
could do, giving all the win
nings to the owner of the ma
chine.
And where are the old play
ers who used to occupy these
places? They are forced still
lower down along the blood,
stained table, and are either
harrir,o or stea1ino O or dead
The labor world. [volume] (Duluth, Minn.) 1896-current, 1897-11-27
GREAT ECONOMISTS.
Lawrence GrOnlund and Ed
ward BeIlamy.
The Questions Of Blighted Lives and Col
lectivism Ably Set Forth by These
Leaders Of Thought.

Wherever l go | see hollow
eyed slaves looking out over
the world from their dismal
treadrnills of endless and tor
tuous labor, believing, poor
souls, that through some in
scrutab1e whim of the AL
mighty they have been robbed
of share in the yealth of cre-
alton, and must toll on in con-
tentment and absolute humilia-
ton, or they will even lose the
eternal rest of heaven.
Most of these slaves are lean
and tanned and hollow-eyed,
for their work is SO hard that
even the flesh of their bodies
is sacrificed on the altar of in
humanity. They have no time
for study and recreation, and
their thoughtless faces tell the
pitiab ble story of a plundered
and blighted intellect.
All, God! To think of the
many blighted minds that are
forced to go cropping their way
through the darkness of preju-
dice and superstition, minds
that might have been able to
solve the great throbbing prob.
lens of human progress, and
reach far out into the mystery
that surrounds us, had they
been born under different cir
cumstances, and not robbed of
their natural right to inherit
an equal right to the blessings
on earth.
Shall this hell of inhumanity
continue much longer? Shall
the blighting of intellect go
on? Shall the flesh of slaves
still be sacrificed on the ac-
cursed altar of pious greed?
Shall the treadmills of indus
try continue to grind the hearts
and hopes out of the children
born down among the people
who are threatened with eter-
nal damnation if they dare to
raise their arm against their
numbering, plundering .op-
pressors? 49,
I cannot die until l see the
earth restored to the people.
While this is the condition,
and the feeling of the many
who experience the grinding
and enslaving force of COM
petitive political organization,
in which the competition was
closed many years before the
contest begun, even the victor
is not happy in his gorgeous
state. And in his reflective
moments he is heard to MUIR
muir:
The race is won! AS victor am hailed
With deafening cheers from eager thoughts
and yet
Gladder the victory could forget
The strained, white faces Of the men who failed.
It must be that the same
humanizing force which in the
past has brought mankind
with all their doubts and fears
from the despotic sway of the
monarch to the state where
each has a voice in the govern
nent, will, in time, bring us to
the doctrine of Cali the world
for all the people" ."-Lawrence
Gronlund.
"The main factor in the pro-
duction of wealth among civil
lied men is the social organ
ism, the machinery of asso-
ciated labor and exchange by
which hundreds of millions of
individuals provide the de-
mand for one anothers pro-
duct and mutually complement
one another's labors, thereby
making the productive and dis
tributive systems of anation and
of the world one great machine.
Chicago eagle. [volume] (Chicago, Ill.) 1889-19??, 1897-05-15
A Vegetable Sea Rope.

The largest plant In the world Is be.
lleved to be u gigantic scaweed. the
nereocytls. which frequently grows to
a height of more than 300 feet. The
stem OF the plant Is rs strong rs an or.
rope, ana large quantities Of 1t
are dried ana used as rope by the In.
hubltants OF the South Sea Islands,
where the curious vegetable ropes are
found. This seaweed usually grows at
depth OF from 200 to 300 feet. As
soon rs the plant takes root u pear.
shaped balloon Is formed, which grows
with the stem toward the surface Of
the water. This balloon frequently has
a diameter of six feet or more. 1t has.
of course, an upward tendency, and
therefore keeps the stem growing until
It floats Oh top Of the water. This enOr-
nous weed grows In such quantities
that large meadOw-llke Islands are
formed, which frequently impede navi.
cation. The ropes made from these
stems are used for building purposes
and the balloons, when dried. make
very serviceable vessels.
Chicago eagle. [volume] (Chicago, Ill.) 1889-19??, 1897-05-15
JUDICIARY OF COOK COUNTY.
Superior Court Judges.

6oO. 2. GARY. Chief Justice.
HENRY M. SHEPARD.
THEODORE BRENTANO.
HENRY Y. FREEMAN.
ARTHUR II. CfIETLA1N.
JOHN B. PAYNE.
JOHN A.
Rock Island Argus. (Rock Island, Ill.) 1893-1920, 1897-10-25

PROBABLY the most successful
thing in the way Of fair that has
been given in the state Of Illinois
this year was the Nation street fair.
There was an average attendance
during the four days Of IS, 900 peo-
PIC daily, and it is safe to say that
the visitors in those four days spent
not less than 5000, 900. The railroads
running into Nation gave half fare
rates. and tho handsome little town
was daily crowded. The beauty Of
this kind Of fair. says the Peoria
Herald, 10 that 1t is held right in the
business streets, and that the mer-
chants. the hotel keepers. restaurant
men-all who contribute toward the
entertainment OF a large visiting
population--were the ones to reap
the benefit. The Herald is taking
up tho matter systematically and
laying 1t before its readers with all
its advantages and opportunities.
Who knows but that the street fair
may become an institution In Illi-
nois In the near future? II so, Rock
Island will be in 1t. We want . fair
Of some kind here-that much is
sure.