The San Francisco call., 1896-02-28

nave Done as fairly and honorably as a man
could do.
lie reviewed briefly what he had en-
ueaVored to prove on the three preceding
nights, and continued:
Tonight shall take proposition No. 8, and
.iien' IL the court pleaSes, l shall summarize
w .he sanent points OF the evidence submitted to
me me court. snail now submit the proofs on
me .eTi rhlrq proposition, which is es follows:
Ihe Roman church and her ecclesiastics
nave right to Immunity from civil law"
After paying tribute to the faithfulness
OF the press reporters and the papers they
represented for what he termed their
arduous and careful WORK, he said:
| say that the Roman Catholic church
teaches and holds dogma that she, the
organization, and her priests, bishops, arch
plshops and cardinals, teaches and holds as
doctrine that they ought to have immunity
rom CIVIL law. Remember, [ do not say that
the Catholic church holds as a dogma that you,
a layman, ought to have immunity from civil
law, but that the priests and bishops and the
Pope ought to have immunity from civil law;
mat they ought not to be amenable to civil
law at all.
I am not fighting the Roman Catholic
ehurch. | am not saying that the Roman
Ca atholic church is wrong in holding that and
will go further and say that if l were tonight
priest of the Catholic church l would not
deny 1t. as he does; and furthermore, from the
standpoint of a truthful and honorable Chris
tian man or woman believe there is no right
position TO take but that. And say that as
Roman Catholic l would not and could not be-
leve otherwise from the standpoint OF the
Roman Catholic church. and l am not even
saying that the standpoint is wrong.
III the Catholic church is right, If 1t is the
kingdom OF God on earth, don't you believe
II there be a God in heaven that he is greater
than any man or king or president, and don't
you believe that his laws are above the laws
of man, and if the Catholic church be the
kingdom OF God on earth then her ecclesiasLics,
being Gods representatives, ought to be free
from being called before any court on the face
of the earth.
l am not saying that the Roman Catholic
church is wrong; | am not saying that it is
right. am simply going tonight to stick to
my text. All that l have to do tonight is TO
show to you out OF Roman Catholic publica-
tlons that Rome does believe and teach that
the priests ought not 10 be .amenable to the
civil laws.
Now, am going to resort TO citation am
going to summons witness-competent wit
nesses-out of the ecclesiastics, and they ought
TO know. | have tonight brought the mass
OF books and works that | have got to lead me
into the light or into the woods, and. If any of
you doubt II, kindly, when read the book and
page, name man to come up here and read
1t Tor himself and see IL l am right not.
Applause l now quote from volume l, page
IL, of the elements OF Ecclesiastical Law:
"Civil laws derive all their forces, SO far as
they are applicable to ecclesiastical matters,
solely from the authority OF the church"
Now, II the civil laws nave no force on mat
ters pertaining to the church exec pt from the
authority of the church, is it not true that
these laws are, so far the church is con-
cerned, as though they had never been? If
the civil law has no force in matters pertain
ing to the church except from the authority of
the church, all matters there are not emena-
bic to laws that have not its consent.
In volume l, page 229, OF the same work we
find:
According to the declaration of the sacred
congress of January %, 1886, approved by
Pope Leo XIII, ecclesiastics and others
must always obtain leave from the Holy See
before they can have recourse TO the secular
court against q Bishop, even though it be in
temporal matters"
My friends, ii you have to ask my consent
before You have me arrested, don't you think
am pretty free OF the law?
Father Yorke cannot sue Archbishop Rior-
dan. Ecclesiastics and others must always OBJ
tain leave from the Holy See before they can
have recourse to the secular court against
Bishop,even though it be in temporal matters.
Ii he won pay his beer bill he can't be sued
On page 443, volume 4, OF this work there is
this:
Church property is, both by ecclesiastical
and divine right, exempt from the iurisdic-
ton OF the civil government Hence laws en-
acted-e. g., by Legislatures in the United
States incapacitating church corporations from
acquiring more than specified amount OF
property-are null and void"
And You can pass an act in the Legislature
of California so that Father Nugent shall not
hold more property than that bill calls for,
and he says: "You GO down below and will
do just what | like. Your laws are null and
void" Fortunately have been trained in
the law so that understand its construction
In volume /, page 80, occurs the following:
'fThus, according TO the common law OF the
church ecclesiastics are not amenable to the
jurisdiction OF civil courts; the Bishop is the
only competent judge in all their causes
Did l do wrong in accepting mis- challenge.
even when the words were put in my MOUTH
lCries of "Nov ''Nor'l Volume l, page 100,
provides thus:
Criminal charges, charges against the Bish-
ops in the United States and missionary coun-
tres in general, are adtudicated upon by the
propaganda
When somebody will say that is all right
they can be adjudicated by the propaganda.
l would like my opponent to stand up, throw
away the question of forger and throw away
the question OF lie, take the books and the
quotations from them, have them reproduced
in the press and then defeat me. But man is
not defeated by being called a liar and
forger. [Shout from some one in the audi
ence. ''He is dirty liarp'l
1.-THE Life OF Pope Plus IX," a Roman Catho-
lie work which is here, contains these words:
The 265 Bishops, In their address to Plus
TX of June 8, 1862, at Rome, said:
ave condemn the errors which you have
condemned; we denounce and condemn the
sacrileges spoiations and violations of ec-
clesiastical immunities and other outrages
which have been committed against the
church"
Well, then, does not the church claim i'm
munities according TO this? Here is another
from an authorized work in German and
Latin:
''Die immunitat der klrche und der kirch-
liehen perso1nen hattie ti ihren Ursprung nicEt
church and of ecclesiastical persons have not
their origin in civil right
Here is another from the elements of Eccle-
siastical Law" 1 want you to know it is not
mine. But l tell you, my friends, regret as
much as any Roman Catholic in San Francisco
that this is found in the ecclesiastical law:
"Q.-Is it allowed to transfer priests of bad
morals from one parish 10 another instead of
deposing them
daft the character of such priest is un-
known in the new parish, and if there is q rea-
sonable hope that by the change they viii re-
form, it is unquestionably lawful to transfer
them"
This concluded the consideration of the
third proposition and Mr.. Ross began his
review of the other three, taking up the
first proposition. In support of his con-
tention he quoted as follows:
'eNow, it is evident that the church insti-
tuted by Christ is a society complete ana inde-
pendent, because it has been formed by Gods
self, from whom it received its own authority;
and to this authority alone does it belong to
prescribe the means by which, in accordance
with the law given by Christ, its end is to be
attained No civil rover whatever has a right
to interfere with the legislation and govern
ment of the church, because on the one hand
the commission to teach was not conferred by
Christ on kings, princes or magistrates, but on
the apostles and their successors. On the
other hand, the church being Catholic, her
power extends over the whole world, while the
jurisdiction OF the state is confined TO the
lirnito Of that ~