The Seattle post-intelligencer. [volume] (Seattle, Wash. Terr. [Wash.]) 1888-1914, 1895-08-10
GRONLUND In DEBATE
The Socialist Crosses Swords
With the PopulistS.
NOTA BELIEVER IN FIAT MONEY.
He Opens With Plea for the Fabians
and Then Argues With silver Men
and Single Takers.

Laurence Gfonlund, the socialist. held
the second of his parlor meetings at the
Unitarian church last evening, and was
put TO the question by several Of the To-
cal students of the economic questions
with which he deals as an advocate OF
the Fabian Society. He disagreed with
the Populists on the meney question, and
would not agree with Eugene Way that
the single tax would cure all social ills.
In opening the meeting Mr.. Gronlund
made speech. in the course of which he
said:
Il wish to form society, club, SIM
liar to the noble Fabian Society of En-
gland. Prof. Heron, of Iowa, did
splendid work in California couple of
months ago, and he also formed and lefe
behind him an organization, but one to
learn. not 10 do That is not what con-
template. l want society that will
do Will act. But I am in no hurry. l
do not care for a society, except it is
composed of the right kind of people. l
have now some experience. I formed
these Fabian Societies in California-in
San Francisco, in Los Angeles and in
San Diego. If you read the San Fran
cisco papers you may have seen that the
society is quite active there, but they are
not doing what recommended, and hence
l think they are not nearly so successful
as they might be. There are three clergy
men members of it-extra ordinary clergy
men. for two of them have resigned their
charges, because they would not obey the
will of their congregations to preach as
they were told Undoubtedly tue clergy
and school teachers of our country are
the most dependent classes in the COM
munity.
I'VE must have men and women fit to
be leaders-that is. men and women of
standing in the community-in order to
consolidate the forces of reform. Hence
/ appeal to all who are animated by high,
noble ambition-ambition to serve society.
There must be such men and women in
America, but / assure you they are pretty
difficult to find. Three such persons i'll
city like Seattle-two men and one woman
is all that is required, but they must live
in the same place, for working in concert
is prerequisite to success. Fortunately,
when I come to speak of the first steps,
we shall find that mere political ambition
can accomplish much. I think / can say
that one such man is found When Debs
was tried for contempt in Chicago the
Judge asked what were his views of social
reconstruction. His answer. now on rec
ord. was: 4 believe in the cooperative
commonwealth, as outlined in the book
with that name by Laurence Gronlund.
He is the most promising labor leader we
have; but we need other leaders to move
those classes with whom Debs has no in
are much more important than he is, be-
cause 1t depends on them whether the
change is to be violent or peaceable. From
what / have experienced in Seattle, the
state of Washington promises to be as re-
ceptive as l found Southern California to
be. But between the two lies Oregon, ter
ribly backward. due. think. to the Ore
gonian. This morning paper is an able
one: ii reported me fairly. but attacked
me viciously in its editorial columns, re-
peating over and over its charges that col
lectivism would do the very reverse of
what asserted: that it would abolish pri-
vate property and all motives to effort I
contend that II will do nothing of the kind
tho very reverse"
The speaker then invited those present
to ask questions and he found several
who complied with alacrity. Mr. Gron-
lund does not think the greenback ques-
ton amounted to much as a solution Of
the troubles of mankind but wanted to
socialize the machinery of production. All
that the present generation could do was
to tell what would probably. not what ac-
tually would take place.
Eugene Way, who is now an ardent
advocate OF the single tax system, and
who attends all meetings on industrial
problems remarked that he was a social
list to certain extent, but believed that
land values should be socialized first and
then there would be no necessity OF So
cidnZing the machinery OIL pTOQucliOI.
What the people needed was land for
homes. so that they could learn to sup
port themselves.
Mr.. Gronlund replied that in his mind
1t was a question OF what was to be
done. instead of what was needed.
Richard Winsor the well known Popu-
list leader, wanted TO know II man
made a pair OF boots, say worth s.. and
placed them in the market, was he en-
titled to have money as an evidence of
his production? Mr.. Gronlund replied
that money was a commodity and when
he sold his boots he received gold as
commodity.
Then Mr.. winsor and Mr.. Gronlund
disagreed on the money question. bat
there were no indications of fight. Mr.
Wfnsor wanted TO know what would be
done II the rich boarded all the money
in banks, Mr.. Gronlund having said
that the rich controlled the kind of money
20 be used. Mr.. Gronlund said such a
case would not arise. Mr.. Winsor said
II had arisen, and became quite eloquent
as he told how gold had been boarded
and boarded.
I'VE do not agree in our premises, I
see" said Mr.. Winsor.
Now. any money that Is good the rich
will take" said Mr.. Gronlund. ''The
government cannot, however. force a cit
izen to take any kind Of money. The
government issues a circulating medium.
but does not own the wealth. II the gov
eminent should issue ereenbacks TO the
amount Of s5o per capita. the people would
not have TO take them. in fact. the gov
eminent could not force the people to
take them IL they did not want to-"
Mr.. winsor retorted that history would
not bear ont a theory that the people
would not accept a proclama ton in refer
ence 10 money.
Then Mr. Gronlund and Mr.. wav TAD "A
tilt. the former declaring that land values
and other values were on the same basis.
Notwithstanding Henry George.
Mr. Way could not stand that. so he
iqirnned ND and said he never heard OF a
man who built a mill getting rich unless
he used IT, but many a man had become
rich on enhanced land values.
Il don't see much difference" replied
Mr. Gronlund. If one man doesn't use the
land. re probably allows some one else
20 do So
Then they took up collection and ad-
journed.