The representative. [volume] (St. Paul, Minn.) 1893-1901, 1895-07-31

millions is out Of the question Two
millions Is just about as bad. There is
not any truth in either statement.
Mr.. Harvey-As to the prosperity Of
| this country between 1879 and 1892, you
could not break down a great nation
like this in one year. 1t has taken a
| short period to bring us to the bitter
| cup Of disappointment and distress.
litical parties have charged each other
with having destroyed the prosperity of
the previous four years. applause
| and laughter.) Continuing, Mr.. Har-
vey asked Mr.. Horn not to refer to the
prosperity" Of the country from 1878
in 1873, and the, United States census
shows that depression has been in
creasing at q disproportionate ratio.
| So has the number of penitentiary con-
victs. persons confined in all classes Of
prisons. insane asylums, and Of suicides
the prosperity that has built up mill
1onaires and multi-millionaires and
| strewed the country with millions of
tramps and paupers, and men that don't
know how they are going to provide for
their families in the coming years. Cap
plause.) A change in relative produc-
ton had no effect as long as the mints
| were open to the two metals. tApplause)
Mr.. Horr-I never said that the cheap
price Of silver was not on account Of its
over production Silver has become
cheap in this world just precisely the
same as wheat and iron have been cheap
ened. just precisely for the same rea-
| son. Applause.) All of these articles
have been cheapened by the natural laws
which govern the production OF every
substance known to the producers in the
world
w. D. Wilcox of Chica go-How about
gold?
Mr.. Horr-Gold the same I am glad
you asked me. Gold has deprecated in
value in less than 100 years so per cent.
1t Is cheaper now than 1t was in 1879.
All articles that can be produced by in
ventions are cheaper than they were be-
fore the invention was made. Every
method which brings machinery into
play and puts less human toll into the
production of any article cheapens that
| article. The whole trend of civil action
is to cheaper human products, gold rs
well as silver and wheat A large num-
Der of the articles today produced in the
world have not been decreased IN value
at all by the decentralization Of silver,
but simply because the laws Of produc-
ton have crowded down the price. I
can get today twice as much gold for a
days work following the pillow as 1 did
in 1849 The people of this country are
paid in gold for their work; so they were
in 1860 Has not gold deprecated then,
| when you measure it with the great com
modify Of human toll? What I find
fault with is that the silver men invari-
ably leave out of their calculation this ar
ticle Of labor, and the article of labor is
the greatest article known in the civil
| lied world. Cut down the pay of day la
Dor and you paralyZe the entire business
of any nation. The men who do the work.
especially in republic like ours, are the
| men who consume. And when you pro-
hot
off with money that compels my children
to go hungry, that compels my family to
deprive themselves of the comforts Of
life, protest.
Mr.. Harvey-Mr. Horn says that ev-
erything has been cheapened, including
gold. To say that gold and products
cheaper simultaneously is financial
contradiction. You buy gold by exchang-
ing other property for it. When it takes
more property to buy gold than formerly
gold has risen. Instead of becoming
cheaper, gold has become dearer That
is the case now. And yet, Mr. Horn, by
sophistry, reasons that it has become
cheaper. He says to the laboring man,
You can buy more with a gold dollar
now than you ever could" and then turns
to you and says that gold is growing
cheaper all the time.
This ended the debate for the day and
questions were submitted from the au-
dience.
Mr.. Horr-This question is put to me
by John J. McGrath, treasurer of the
Brickmakers and Stonemasons Union
Of Chicago. Is Mr.. McGrath here?
do not know that quite understand
his question, but will read it, why
is it that the workingman's opportunity
does not keep pace with his Increased
productiveness? II he produces five
| times what he did 20 years ago, ought he
| not to get five times the pay? In other
M dc hot irrhf hoc
value purchasing power) should be in
creased thereby?" I do not understand
| the last line; I understand the import,
however, Of the general question. The
trouble with the question is that MI
McGrath assumes two or three things
that may not be true. why is it that
the workingman's opportunity does not
keep pace with his increased productive
ness?" I did not know but what it did
IF he produces five times what he did
20 years ago"-well, 1 don't know as
he does. Do you lay five times as MANY
bricks as you used to lay 80 years ago?
Can q man do that? 1t is a fair cues
ton. I did not know as you could DO
that.
Mr.. Harvey-Did you not state in your
| argument the other day that the pro-
ductiveness had increased something
like five times as much?
Mr.. Horr-I don't know; but whether 7
did or not, I would say SO now; but 1
did not say that each laboring man pro-
duced five times as much by any means
I stated before, and 1 will repeat it now
| every invention that is made may in
crease productiveness 20 times, but not
Of the man that works at hand labor I
stated the law this morning, that when
| ever such invention is made, a part of
the profit should go to increase the pay
of the laborer, part of it should go to
the cheapening of the substance for those
who consume it, and part Of it should
go to the inventor or manager to Day
him for his invention and for running
the business. Now, Mr.. McGrath, how
much do you get a day for laying brick !?
Mr.. Harvey-Mr. McGrath handed me
that question Saturday and asked me to
see that it was put to you.
Mr.. Horr-Is there anyone here who
knows what bricklayers get per day for
such work? I would like to know if
any of these men who are cheering ME
or Mr.. Harvey are bricklayers, or if they
know how much bricklayers get now.
My friend here says so cents an hour
That would be at the rate of SIS for 10
hours work. I used to hire bricklayers
for 1925 a day. They were paid in the
currency of the country. They are get
| ting now say 81 day and paid in gold.
Does that show that gold has increased
in price?
Mr.. Harvey-They get it when they get
work.
Adjourned till p m. tomorrow.