The Indianapolis journal. [volume] (Indianapolis [Ind.]) 1867-1904, 1895-07-23

perity of the previous four years. (Ap-
nlause and laughter.)
not to refer to prosperity OF the country
from 1873 TO 1885, The word tramp was
coined in 1873. and the United States
census shows that depression has been in
creasing at a disproportionate ratio. So
has the number of penitentiary convicts,
persons confined in all classes OF prisons.
prosperity alluded to has built up mil
lfonaires and multf-millionaires and
strewed this country with millions of
tramps and paupers and men that do not
know how they are going TO provide for
their families in the coming year. Jap
plause)
effect as long as the mints were open 10
the two metals. Applause.)
Mr. Horr-I have never said that the
its overproduction. Silver has become
cheap in this world just precisely the
same as wheat and iron and zinc and
lead and other articles have been cheap
ened; just precisely for the same reason.
All of these articles have been cheap
ened by. the natural laws which govern
the production of every substance knows
TO the producers in the world
MR.. WILCOX SPEAKS OUT.
Mr.. W. ID. Wilcox. of chicago-How
about gold?
Mr. Horr-Golc, the same. am glad you
asked me.
Gold has deprecated in value in less
than one hundred years. 80 per cent. II
is cheaper noY than it was in 1873 All
articles that edn be produced by inventions
are cheaper than they were before the
invention was made. Every method which
brings machinery into play and puts less
human toll into the product of any article
cheapens that article. The whole trend
OF civilization is to cheaper human prod
ucts. gold as well as silver and wheat.
duced in the world have not been de-
creased in value at all by the demonetiza-
ton of silver, but simply because the laws
of production have crowded down the price.
l can get to-day twice as much gold for
a days work following the plow as 1 did
/ IN lS49. The people of this country are
paid in gold for their work. so they were
in 1860. Wages are 20 per cent. higher,
paid in gold for the same amount of work
than in 1860. Has not gold deprecated
commodity of human toll? What i find
fault with is that the silver men invariably
leave out of their calculation this article
of labor; and the article of labor is the
greatest article known in the civilized
world. Cut down the pay of labor and
nation. The men who do the work. es-
pecially In republic like ours are the
men who consume.
thing has been cheapened, including gold.
To say that gold and products cheaper
Sv soa by is oisss
erty for II. When it takes more property
to buy gold than formerly. gold has risen.
Instead Of becoming cheaper. gold has be-
come dearer. That is the case now. And
yet Mr.. Horr by sophistry, reasons that Il
has become cheaper. He says to the labor
dollar now than you ever could and then
turns to you and says that gold is growing
cheaper all the time.
This ended the debate for the day and
questions were submitted from the audi
ence.
Mr.. John J. McGrath. treasurer of the
Bricklayers' and Stonemasons' Union Of
Chicago. Is Mr.. McGrath here? / do not
know that ! quite understand his question,
workingman's opportunity does not keep
pace with his increased productiyeness. IL
years ago? Ought he not to get five times
the pay? In other words, what right has
the dollar that its value purchasing power)
should be increased thereby?
/ do not understand the last line l un-
derstand the import, however. of the gen.
eral question. The trouble with that ques-
ton is that Mr. Mc6rath assumes two-c
three things that may not be true. why
is 1t that the workingman's opportunity
does net keep pace with his increased pro-
did. If he produces ave times what he did
twenty years ago-well, do not know as
he does. Do you lay five times as many
Can a man do that? 1t is a fair question.
1 did not know as you could do that
Mr.. Harvey-Did you not state in your
argument the other day that the p-oduc-
tiveness had increased something Ike five
times as much?
Mr.. Horr-I do not know, but whether
did or not, / would say so now, but did
not say that each laboring man produced
five times much. by any means / stated
before. and will repeat it now, every In
vention that is made may increase produc-
tiveness twenty times but not the man who
works with hand labor. / stated the law
this morning. that whenever such Invention
3c do M vf nf hn on ~,
increase the pay Of the laborer. part of ii
should go to the cheapening of the sub
of 1t should go to the inventor or manager
to pay him for his invention and for run
ming the business. Now, Mr.. McGrath, how
hsndsd me that
question Saturday and asked me to see that
it was put to you.
who knows what bricklayers get here to-day
for such work? would like TO know IL any
OF these men who are cheering me or Mr..
Harvey bricklayers, or III they know
how much bricklayers get now. My friend
here says SO cents an hour. That would be
at the rate of IS for ten hours work used
were paid in the currency of the country.
They are getting now, say "a day and
paid in gold. Does that show that gold has
Mr.. Harvey-They get it when they work.
Adjourned till l p. m. tomorrow.
Senator sherman Disputes Harvey.
MANSFIELD, O.. July 22.-In the Har-
vey-Horr debate at Chicago Saturday, Mr.
Horr said there was a provision i'm the act
of 1873 for SS4-grain dollar worth FIVE
francs. which was afterwards struck out
in the Senate before the bill was passed
Mr. Harvey denied that 1t was struck out
by the Senate and said IL tnat was so he
would stop the debate right there. In an
interview to-day Senator Sherman stated
that this provision was added 10 the bill
after 1T reached the House at the instiga-
ton Of the citizens of California, who pro-
struck out when the bill reached the SEN
ate. Mr.. Sherman also displted a number
Of Mr.. Harvey's statements.
fnIIr DREIIMINApX EIcurS