Birmingham state herald., 1895-12-08
PLATO DISCUSSED
By the Herbart Club at the Meeting Tuesday ohf

the hlgh ScnOOl DullulnB 1uSsudy hSie. A discussion of the theories of Plato and Aristotle was on the programme for the meeting So much interest, however, was developed in the doctrines Of Plato that it was deemed best to postpone the consideration Of Aristotle until the next meeting.
 Prof. A. c. Moore spoke first, review ing some of the main points in Plato's philosophy. He said that Plato intro duced and made use of the method Of analysis and synthesis. He sought to build up a true science and therefore at- tempted to find some fixed and unaltera- ble basis upon which to establish 1t. He found that phenomena were constantly changing and only reason was unalter- able Hence he distinguished between opinion and science the first derived from the testimony of the senses ana therefore untrustworthy; the second from the reason and therefore absolutely true.
 Plato claimed that the soul was or a two-fold nature, or two; the rational soul, experimenting noumena, or real exist ences, and the sensitive soul, apprehend- ing phenomena or appearances. He ad- mitted third element an active prlncl- pie, known as emotion, which serves to bind together sense and reason; the three corresponding to the division, plant, an imal, man; or to the further division, appetite, spirit or courage, reason.
 The soul has existed in a previous state and in this existence in it's assocla- tion with the gods has perceived nou- mena, or real existencies. Failing to per ceive these, or weighed down by voice, it falls to the earth and enters body to dwell for a season. The soul is immor- tal-has always existed and will always exist-it is eternal, one with God
 The starting point of all true philos- ophy is the origin of knowledge. Since ha rIi fhara have been two contending schools-the one attempting to base all knowledge on experience, the other tracing its origin to certain hxed principles which transcend all experl- ence. Plato belonged to the second class. According to him, in forming conceptions the mind is the active agent and sensa- tion is of subordinate importance. Each mind contains the materials of its own development. Education is drawing out' these dormant ideas, which are de- rived from a pre-existent state of the soul, and therefore prior to corporal ex- istence. Sense perception is the joint &C., tion of material body and the soul. No two individuals will experience the same feelings or ideas, and no individual will have the same experience at two d1ffer- ent times, therefore sense knowledge is untrustworthy and unsatisfactory. The senses are not educable; yet Plato reveals a weakness in his theory when he goes on to say that some few individ- ualS by comparison and repetition &C., quire superior skill and power.
 Plato is too radical-takes too little account of the senses and the influence of the external world upon the mind. The result is clearly seen in his Re public" which is a purely ideal creation, never to be realized as long as nature is what 1t is.
 In his theory of perception Plato was an idealist, holding that what we cognize in nf Of neroanfiOn iS not the mate rial object but an idea. The material object has no real existence. Ideas are the only realities; things and events are their shadows.
 Plato makes much of ideas. and here he is hard to understand. General ideas he holds to have real existence He was the first to distinctly affirm thls doc Urine, which has since been denominated realism. The individual Is unimportant in comparison with the general. This led to a serious mistake in his "Repub- lic," by which he subordinates the indi- vidual to the race.
 General ideas are the highest realities. yet particular ideas have an existence, after which they are copied in material image the latter having no real exist ence. Ideas only exist. Things are their shadows. The idea is the true measure of the sensible
 God is the sum of ideas-the highest ida, the most general idea; hence eter- nal, unchangeable, omnipotent' oeneh- cent.
 Plato denied existence to space and time Space he said, is the mother of all thngs-a mere condition of the sensible Matter Is the substratum of sensible qualities. Time is relative to the phe- nomenal world; it came into existence with the world and will be destroyed with it. Time Is the moving image of eternity.
 The discussion was then taken up by Prof. J. B. Cunningham. He said:
 It seems very self-esteemed for any one in this day of enlightenment to rise and cast a casual glance back through the ages and presume to outline for the crit icism of others the conceptions of Plato.
 Out of the darkness of pantheism, through the fogs of mythology, beyond the dense clouds of ignorant supersti- tion Plato cast his vision into the eternal sunlight of truth. He found one God and an eternal soul-the Creator and the creature. Belief has today nothing new CT. To do this, environed as he was, be- speaks the grandest mind.
 l. Plato believed that ideas are the only known. This idea was what the sense stimulated, plus what the mind brought to the sensation To illustrate: painter throws his brush against white wall. At first daub only is seen. Animals and men equally see this daub, but very soon the mind of man sees lines running from spot to spot Next these lines form ge- ometric figures; last the figures result in beauty. Plato says the work of making lines, figures and seeing beauty is that of mind. None of this was in the daub nor did the animal find it.
 g. Plato claimed that universals really exist. Humanity existed before man, i.e.. God had the idea then executed the work So also with mans knowledge. The ideas the soul got in its far pre-human exist cnce when it saw the real, now give 1t knowledge of what the human sees. B. Plato believed In the pre-existence of the rational soul that "enlighteneth every man." How like the belief of Paul! 1. Plato believed that God, soul, idea an- tedate matter. though some have claimed that he believed matter to be eternal B. He believed that matter is evil. Hence the body did the shining, overlooking the so potent fact that the mind sins, such as envy. malice. hatred, etc, are more troublesome than the body sins.
 G. Plato reached the grand conception -one seen by few even today-that vir- tue Uruth) Is the end of living. Pain and pleasure are the means.
 T. Last, he believed In certain ancient traditions which seem to have the core of truth. These he called myths. Two of these myths related to the retributions of 4r.. nd frd toll f,P cVtr