The times. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1890-1903, 1895-11-16
Mr.. Grace: Yes. sir.
Nr Acrcatfh. Athen was tn1tf

small amounts tSt ana SiV Az" "cN''
ps,o sns mas ma i'm the last twelve months?
@. How long ago was 1T? Since Mr..
Knowles took charge! ., q. ..,,,o
A. Yes. sir | nave borrowed 1t since
o. And previous TO that did you borrow
small sums and not pay anything Tor ~
a. Yes. sir. ~. ,.,..,. son,
O. When you borrowed my uoh''S ~"
pald FOR IT, did you 49,.
Yes SIR Well. | let II go sometimes
three and four months and never pad
any more | paid him for u. ula"
c.ncrt TO get anything for nothlnS.
Nlr. Grimes: Haven't you borrowed
Twenty-Five and thirty dollars from me
and never pad anything Tor II. -, 4,
Mr.. Grace: Yes. sir 1 have onercl !,
a G.. INTEREST," TO you. ana you "ouiph
take IL.
Mir. Grimes: Did ever 80 TO you ana
ask you TO borrow money!
Air. Grace: No. sir. -
Mr.. Grimes: Didn't you always ask me
10 lend IL TO you?
Mr. Grace. Yes, SIR
MIR Meredith. DO you know OF any
orders that YOU gave MI bfiihes on your
pay-(witncss interrupts -.
Sir. Grace: Mighty few orders ever
gave for A.
The rest Of the testimony brought out
that witness had gwen additional orders
on Mr Crimes Tor 80 ana S2.tJ re-
SpCtllNtiS.
MR. JoEDss's .isTiMoNY.
Mr.. Gctwcll Jordan. who had given two
oraers in Lee, mler-$j - X. Butter ana
So TO John X. Grimes was next cail.n.
lie thought the NrSt amount was iOf
,Ioce-ies. the otner was borrowed money
Tor which be PAID ten cents on the doliar
interest for thirty Gays. some months ne
would not pay all he owed nm. In
JANUARY he gave an order for 81 IN favor
Of
have the money run over INTO the next
month. lie was never offered the money
but asked for It. The money FOR the or
dcrs would be taken out Oh pay way
MIR. Grimes then asked witness If he
had not loaned him Si5 at "a t:Te ana y
he had not kept the money Tor t"o OF
three or four months al time before ne
paid anything back
have saved this mans house for him lie
has come to me and | have diven "lm
away from me. and he would come back.
/ think this Is private business.
Mr.. Meredith. No. | beg your pardon
Mr. Grinc,. you were chairman OF nc
Light Committee. and this was Nlola-
ton OF "A c.iy ordinance.
Mr.. Grimes: IT was an act OF Kindness.
! have never asked a man TO borrow
money from me: can lend all the money
Mr.. Meredith. Not at 10 per cent
month
Mr.. Grimes some OF 10 Tor more.
Mr.. Grimes also stated that witness had
never paid him his money back in ono
month and Mr.. Meredith asked witness
n he had made correct statement. ana
had he ever paid 70 per cent. for a thirty-
day loan. Witness answered In the ar
firmative. and he had borrowed money
COINS on for months without paying any
more interest.
Mr.. Grimes. Have You not borrowed
money here I'm the spring. and we're put
lff "a
came back I'm the fall?
Mr.. Jordan. Ncs. sir.
Mr.. Grimes: Haven't I loaned YOU
money when you were out Of work and
had no money?
Mr.. Jordan. Yes. sir.
worY INTERESTING FvID~Vcv.
Mr.. William Timhcriake was the next
witness. ON the December payroll ne
had an order for Sli. IN January FOR So
in February twice. Sil each. every time
in favor of Mr. Grimes | did not know
] was violating "A city ordiulncr at the
tine. ] sometimes borrowed $50 or so
at time and paid II back in several
months. N:r. Grimes used to :cli ms be-
fore We borrowed the money that The
interest would be ten cents on the dol
lar but The time was not stated.
Mr. John r. Smith. who testified next.
had entered orders in december Tor
s2i in January S2J3n. in FEBRUARY S23.ip
and another In the same month for S-2.Gl
all in favor of Mr.. Grimes. Witness did
not know that ne was violating any city
ordinance. When payday came he
would go TO Mr.. Grimes and borrow The
same amount. or more again. and pay
the interest. On several times Mr. Grimes
said 10 me he would stop loaning money.
He refused 70 let him have money when
the High Constable had threatened 10
take the witness things away.
M. GhIM..' -. M ~.
Mr. Grimes then went on the stand
ana said. | VIII state for the benefit or
the committee that these are not orders
These people owed no money: | had these
peoples negotiable notes, and this way
was satisfactory 20 M. Adams-tO take
these papers and copy of my list.
don't know how many. but very few
OF those ever paid out IN month. Some
OF them would not do days work. ana
some of them would work half or
month. They would beg TO be Jet oft.
and l would let them of. j have ,Oj
thousand dollars. out here now with
men who have got into me and ihea
would leave. ! would give my list 80
MIR. adams. and II they made 10 time
he would mark nothing there. But tnesc
lists VIII show that other people we're
dong business besides me. never
sent TO them, they would come 10 me,
and | would drive them away time ana
again. II was a case Of emergency,
gentlemen.
would not want to have anything to
do with them. because l knew thar in
the long run ! would be a loser. j would
give twenty-five or thirty men, ranging
from 500 up To So and $40 and | can't
get anything out Of them.
Mr.. Meredith: What we are after is
the violation of ..ic ordinance and the
chairman Of the committee beng the
enc who participated in it,
Mr. Crimes: l have told them that Il
was a violation of the rules They never
gave me orders. | was anxious TO get
OUT OF It and did get out of - TO a GER
tain extent.
Mr.. Allen: Mr., Grimes you said lust
row that you knew other parties who
cid this business. DO YOU know Of any
member OF the City Council or any Of
fer OF the city who was engaged in THIS
business?
Mr.. Grimes No. sir; don't think
can say that anyboyy in the city CoIn-
ell did. My career in the CITY Council
did not commence this / do this bust
ness and do II all over town. | lost last
year 500 in the Richmond Granite Com
pany. clean lost ! suppose every man
that reads the papers saw where | got
Judgment against the Richmond Granite
Company. and | never got any of the
money. il was a clear loss. / bought the
mems time ana in many cases gave
nearly full pay for II. Anybody in the
city. | think. who is safe. | will lend
money TO and take my risk of losing H.
Mr.. Meredith. But there have been
cases. where you charged men ten per
cent month;
''THEy WORRY NJ TO DTArH.'
Mir. Grimes. | may nave charged him
that much 1t may be though. that il
Tapped over. A man may have borrow
ed so from me and nc might not have
RAID no more than s.. the first time and
tne next monthhe may have squared It zap.
That gentleman. Mr.. Timberlake. has had
as high as So. The other day he came
TO me and wanted some money 10 help
his brother in bus ness and | would not
70; him have II They worry me 10 death.
have had TO go out OF my office and
l..L al. ,ei.. IN kaar, aKaN FROM,