The Indianapolis journal. [volume] (Indianapolis [Ind.]) 1867-1904, 1895-12-22
A TALK WITH LINCOLN
HE HAD a FIRM BELIEF " UPHOLD
ING THE MONROE DOCTRINE.
ident After Vicksburg's Fail, Tells
OF an Interview with Him.

John NJ. Thayer, in New York Sun.
The surrender Of Vicksburg by Pemberton
July 4, 1863, gave the opportunity to
apply for a leave of absence for twenty
days, that might visit my family in Mas
sachusetts, where they stayed during the
war. The leave being granted I came
North and stopped in Washington, having
business with Secretary Stanton. When
that was concluded the Secretary took me
TO his private room and asked me various
questions about the siege, the condition Of
the army, etc. It was the Army Of the
Tennessee under Grant that won the glory
OF Vicksburg, and there was no difficulty
in the way of my giving the Secretary
favorable report. When I rose to leave he
said:
General, the President would like to talk
with you. and / desire you to call upon
him. You happen to be the first officer
from the siege OF Vicksburg we have met,
and me are glad to get information direct
from one who has personal knowledge
Here was an opportunity to meet the Pres
fdent had not anticipated. To see him was
a very strong desire with me, but it had
seemed to be almost impossible to have that
satisfaction, as the impression had been
made on me that he was continually pressed
with overwhelming cares and perplexities
of every variety; and with almost innumer-
able callers. the prospect OF having an
audience with him seemed very remote. Mr..
Stanton then sent for Mr.. Charles A. Dana,
then Assistant Secretary of War, and re-
quested him TO accompany me to the White
House and present me to the President
Arriving there, we were ushered into the
room OF the private secretary and were re-
quested to be seated for a while as the
President was engaged with some delega-
tion- While sitting there one Of the secre-
taries took my name in to the President.
and added, lust from vicksburg" Soon
the door opened from his Office and there
stood on the threshold the tall, gaunt figure
OF Abraham Lincoln, his head almost touch
ing the top part OF the door frame Stand
ing an instant with a smile upon his face
his first words were:
How does 1t happen that a man OF the
out to Nebraska? / thought all people of
that name were Yankees and lived down
round about Boston"
Thayer is a familiar name I'm New En-
gland, and especially In eastern Massachu-
sets. but II surprised me that Mr.. Lincoln,
being Western man, should know that
the name was peculiar to any section of the
eastern portion of our country. 1t sur
Nebraska, but / found in subsequent con-
versations that he was well posted in re-
gard to all the generals in the field.
hand, and. taking mine in his. he led me
into his office, directing the messenger at
the door to admit no one without further
orders from him; and drawing chair up to
his own big. high-backed armchair. he said;
Now; sit down there and tell me all about
I proceeded TO give him such information
as IL seemed to me would interest him,
which he might not have learned from the
public press, and suggested that he put to
me such questions, and on such points, as
most interested him. He then piled me with
the army, the suffering of the men during
the siege. the sanitary arrangements, the
commissariat. the discipline, and everything
relating TO the comfort and well being of
the army. He said he had watched the
progress of the siege with the intensest
interest, and that when the victory of Get
tysburg was won and on the Fourth of
July when the news of the surrender of
yicksburg came, the hearts of the people
remarkable occurrence that two such vic
tories should have been won on the same
day.
LINCoLNs VIEW OF GRANT.
After he had satisfied himself with ques-
lions regarding the army. Mr.. Lincoln
burned to me and said:
General you have man down there by
the name OF Grant. have you not?'
I replied: Eyes, sir, we have
Fixing on me an earnest and somewhat
quizzical look, Mr.. Lincoln asked: 'Well,
what kind of fellow is hep 1 replied:
General Grant is a man of whom one can
best Judge by considering the results he
has brought to pass. Belmont, Donelson.
Shiloh and vicksburg make pretty strong
record. He certainly has developed the ele-
ments of a successful commander. He is
very popular with the army, which has
full confidence in his military ability.
When he makes his plans he concentrates
all his energies and all his resources upon
their execution. and don't think he ever
entered upon a campaign or into battle
without fixed determination under all cir
cumstances to win, and with a conscious
ness that he would win. He fills the full
measure OF a great commander"
Mr.. Lincoln listened closely to all said,
and then fixing upon me most earnest
and serious look. he put to me the blunt
and startling question:
Does Grant ever get drunk?' I replied
IN most emphatic language:
mo. Mr.. President, Grant does not get
drunk"
us he in the habit of using liquor?"
asked the President quickly. My answer
My observations. depending on having
excellent opportunities for judging, enable
me TO assert with good degree OF posi-
tiveness that he does not use liquor. Those
opportunities have extended over a period
1 have seen him often. sometimes daily, |
and I have never noticed the slightest in
ccation of his having used any kind or |
liquor. On the contrary. | have. time and
again, seen him refuse to touch it,"
There was too much or whisky hospitality |
during the late war for the good Of the |
service or the country. More than once |
did II happen that movement miscarried |
because the officer charged with its execu-
ton had imbibed too freely OF old Ken |
lucky Bourbon.
'In all my intercourse with General |
Grant" I continued. in speaking to Mr.. |
Lincoln. II never saw him taste intoxicat- |
ing. drink. 1t has been charged in Northern |
newspapers that Grant was under the infiu- |
ence OF liquor the fields of Donelson and |
Shiloh. This charge is an atrocious calum- |
ny: wickedly false. | saw him repeatedly |
during the battles of Donelson and Shiloh !
on the field, and If there were any sober |
men on the field Grant was one OF them. |
Nv brigade and myself gave him Fourth |
OF July dinner in Memphis in 1852. He, OF |
course. as guest, sat upon my right and |
as wine and something stronger were |
PASSED around he turned his glass upside |
down. saying: None for me- / am glad |
to bring this testimony TO you in justice |
to a much-maligned man."
cit IL a relief to hear this statement from |
YOU" said the President "for though I have |
not lost confidence in Grant. / have been a |
good deal annoyed by reports which have |
reached me OF his fntemperance. I have |
been restored with appeals to remove him |
from the command OF that army But some |
how I have felt like trusting him. because,
az you say he has accomplished something.
I knew you had been down there with him |
and thought you would give me reliable evil |
dence, for / have desired 10 get the testi- |
mony OF a living witness. Your direct and |