Richmond dispatch. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1884-1903, 1894-02-11
WHAT CARLISLE SAID
The Secretary Of the Treasury Before
Bailey'S Committee.
THE ISSUE OF. BONDS.
lie Hesitsted Long Before Making IT, But
Felt Duly Authorized to Act
as lie Did.

I'diFA bitOIb ANt iIOusE Jul4NthAF NF'''
mites TO give his Views upon the subject
OF the issue OF new bonds. At the time
Of the hearing care was taken that
nothing but the most meagre and gene
raj details OF Mr.. Carllsle's utterances
should be made public. The notes OF the
hearing were transcribed and submitted
% tho Secretary for such revision OF his
remarks as ne might desire TO make. and
to-day the report OF the proceedings was
submitted 10 the House Judiciary Com
mIttee in a printed document
The Bailey resolution WAS before the
committee at the time and was To ascer-
tol ~ the Secretary held that he mad
authority to use the proceeds Of the
bond-salo for other than redemption pur-
poses although the inquiry was broadened
10 take In the seipniorage question and
the expcdicncy Of the bond issue
Touching the first proposition the Score
tary said: II believe Il IL my duty 10
pay pensions and all other public Obliga-
tons, and unless Congress stops me |
shall do so. While / stay here ! shall
cndcavOr 20 maintain the credit OF the
government by paying its Obligations"
Mr. Boatner: "Out Of the proceeds OF
the bonds which you now propose TO SELF"
Secretary Carlisle: ] would not use the
proceeds OF bonds n Il were possible TO
avoid 1t, but | would not let the obliga-
lions Of tho government 20 10 protest and
fail - pay the appropriations made by
Congress for legitimate purposes and for
carrying on the expenses Of the govern
ment az long as there was dollar IN the
Treasury.
Replying TO question by Mr.. Stone
na IN l.f l.r rrpg 20
tho proceeds Of his bond issue
TO redeem United States notes
end Treasury notes and to replenis1
the rcserve-fund. the Secretary said:
That IS my purpose. but / want 10 say
- you. gentlemen, that the Secretary Of the
Treasury may be confronted hereafter
with very serious question as 10 what
nc VIII DO in the event that Congress
fails or refuses to make provision 70 sup
ply q dofc ency
Suppose for instance. Congress passes
q law. which II does every session. making
appropriations for some particular pur-
pose 0he payment Of pensions for Illus
tratiom, and makes 1t the duty OF tho
Secretary ~ the Treasury 10 pay them out
OF any money in the Treasury not other
wise appropriated (which is the language
Of an your appropriation l1ws), and tho
Secretary Of the Interior makes requisi-
ton upon the Treasury Department for
So.t0"D Ia pay pensions.
Tho Secretary Of the Treasury finds no
money in the Treasury not otherwise APP
propri1ted except the money that has been
realized from the sale Of bonds. lie will
be confronted with the question at once
whether h. will stop the payment Of pen
slOns, whether he viii stop the payment
upon public buildings. whether he Will
stop payment for work upon rivers and
harbors, whether he will withhold salaries.
or use the money in the Treasury not
otherwise appropriated"
NECESSITY OF BONDS.
Tho Secretary was questioned ~ 20 tho
necessity for his proposed bond issue, and
stated that ne felt that the necessity was
absolute. He said: Il did ii very Tee
lucantly. ] hcsitated some time. feared
] Was waiting TOO long. But the situ1-
ton at last became so critical that / f,lt
it was my duty especially in vie. 81
what ! regarded rs very uncertain
prospect Of securing any immediate L.
lief by congressional Legislation"
lie emphasized this point by GO ing that
# was a thing he dislikcd As much as
amy gentleman upon this committee. for
he did not want 10 see the public debt
Of the country increased I'm any way what
ever. or for any purpose whatever"
lie favored The idea Of a popular loan
n loW-iutcf,st small-denomnation bond
running for a short time so that the peo-
pie having money I'm the savings banks
might invest These bonds would be
elastic, as they might DC issued 10 meet
Treasury expenditures and redeemed when
there was Il surplus of revenues. Such
an ISSUE he thought. might be necessi-
f4f.1 8. fs..p.rv.lc se,f H. to
alton alone provide the necessary revenues
for this fiscal year.
Mr.. Bailey, Of Texas. the author Of the
resolution which was the subject Of in
qJiry. challenged the Secretary's au-
thority 10 demand gold for the bonds,
and asked If this was not the first time
discrimination had been shown. The Secre-
tary replied: 40 Secretary Sherman
sold bonds for gold coin"
Mr.. Bailey: Il mean IS this the first
time since the act OF 1873 was Passed?
When Mr.. Sherman sold those bonds gold
was the only lega! tender"
Secretary Carlisle. what the Secretary
Of the Treasury says IS substantially
this-'Congress has invested me with au-
thori,y 10 issue bonds and sell them for
coin. | viii not issue bonds and sell
them unless the purchaser will give gold
coin for them. because gold coin is what
is needed to maintain resumption and the
parity Of the two metals"
Mr.. oates: The bonds are made pay
able I'm coin?"
Secretary Carlisle: not gold coin, but
I'm coin. When Congress authorized the
Secretary Of the Treasury and compelled
him by law to buy $l56.0o0.oJO worth Of
silver, II specified in definite terms the
buying OF silver. and he did it,"
.FFk a.
sue Of grcenbacks 10 meet present cmer-
eencics. and said that while ne would use
them II Congress authorized the issue. he
believed IL 10 be unWise because there
was more money in the country now than
was in use lie had no doubt Of his au-
thority TO issue bonds. and declared that
II the Secretary OF the Treasury should
issue these bonds and take the gold and
dump IL into tho middle Of the Atlantic
ocean it would not vitiate the bonds.
CERTIFICATES AGAINST sEIGNIO-
RAGE.
Mr.. Oates endeavored 10 sound the Sec
rotary upon the proposition 20 issue GER
tihcates against the scigniorage. as con-
templated by the pending Bland and other
bills
Secretary Carlisle: "Wcll, the effect Of
IIiil MOAlu ne tlltl iilc SECRETARY Ol liit
Treasury would issue silver certificates
calling for dollars. ] suppose. when there
were no dollars behind them, and If they
came in for redemption as they might
the Secretary Of the Treasury wouli be
compelled. / suppose TO use gold or what
ever else he had, to redeem them"
MIR. Boatner: Could you not coin the
silver and use that?
Secretary Carlisle: Yes in about two
years; 1t would take about that time.
w. \. Stone. OF Pennsylvania: Have
you not got enough silver 10 redeem
them?
Secretary Carlisle: No. sir. Certificates
are outstanding against what We have. eX-
cept about $4,000 or 100000.
Mr.. Stone: What would be the objec-
ton To issuing certificates on account OF
the segniorage?
Secretary Carlisle: / was going TO state
that II We should issue certificates with
nothing behind them but bullion. L. think
they would be greatly discredited in the
public mind.
Mr.. Stone: And, In order TO keep up
the credit of the government you would
have to redeem them in gold?
Secretary Carlisle: They would have 10
be redeemed in something,
In answer to another question, as to how