St. Paul daily globe., 1893-07-13
If the Reform Should Cripple
the Fire Department.
INSURANCE MEN UNITE IN THIS,
The Commission at Chicago
Must Be the Judge.
A DISCUSSION I'M cOKFER ERERcE
Difference of View as to How
the Cut Will Work.
ARE CHEMICALS EFFICIENT

AXE CHEMICALS EFfIcLENTs
The conference committee met yes
terday afternoon and conferenced some
more. Over month ago the comptroller
informed the committee that at the gait
assumed by the police, fire and health
departments the amount of money
available for each of the departments
would be overdrawn at the end of the
year. He also submitted figures show
ing that the fire department would be
about $4,000 short, the police depart
ment about $1,000, and the health de-
partment $4,000. The conference I'M
mediately passed a resolution ordering
the health department to cut down ex-
penSes so as to keep within the 80 per
cent limit of their Sl2, 600 estimate. The
hre department finances have been I'M
der discussion of meetings held two and
three times each week since the comp
troller'S report was made, but up to date
nothing definite in the matter of re-
ducIng expenses has been accomplished.
At one of the meetings the mayor
announced that there would be no
change in the manner of conducting the
police department, and that when the
money gave out the blame would fall on
the shoulders of the comptroller. While
this ultimatum has not been publicly
announced in reference to the fire de-
partment, the general tendency of the
talk made by the mayor at the meetings,
and the adjournments from day 10 day
without arriving at any conclusion,
point to the same decision being ar
rived at in this department.
At the last meeting of the committee
Mr.. Wheelock intimated that the threat
of the board of underwriters to raise the
insurance rates in case the department
was reduced as to apparatus or men
might be bluff. In order to have
distinct understanding the insurance
men were invited to attend the meeting
held yesterday. j. Q. Haas, president
of the board of underwriters; w. G.
Strickland and j. G. Shandrew, upon in
vitation of the committee, were present
yesterday.
Mr.. Haas said the statement that six
of the engine houses were to be closed,
and thirtytwo of the firemen let out,
would increase the insurance rates from
Is to 20 per cent. This he could assure
the conference
Was No Bluff;
and in case 1t was done the rates would
surely go up. Since then he had learned
the idea was to cut out only portion Of
the apparatus. which might make some
difference. The heavy losses during
the last three years in Minnesota by the
insurance companies would, he thought,
prevent any reduction in the fire de-
partment without an increase in the
rates. The latest proposition to take
out four of the chemical engines, he
had been told. would not weaken the
department any. The insurance COM
panieS, he said, would feel that this
was the first step toward demoraliza-
tlon In the department.. The question
of reducing salaries in the department
would result in the taking out of the
department most of the good men, and
this would not help matters any. Mr..
Bement said the chemical engines
to be taken out were in districts
where there was no protection
against fire when they were put in.
Since then water mains had been laid
in each of the districts and there
was really no need for this class of ap-
paratus. In view of this he saw no good
reason why the rates should be in
creased at their removal. In talking, he
intimated that the chemicals were of
littIn ucn in tha dano
as the territory which was formerly
covered by them now had water mains,
and fires could be put out by hose carts
with the pressure from the hydrantS to
force the water. One of the firemen
connected with the West side chemical
engine, he said, had informed him that
the pressure in West ST. Paul on the
fire hydrants was so great that it re-
quired two men to hold the stream at a
fire, so that chemical was of no use in
that district. The mayor waxed
chemicals were not much use
and went oD to explain in
detail the fires which had been put out
by chemicals. Mr.. Bement, seeing that
he had stepped on sore spot, ex-
planned that he did not mean that they
were of no use only as it applied to the
districts in which water mains had been
extended. He would say, however,
that an old and experienced fireman had
told him that, while chemicals engines
were all right in their way. it was fire.
quentlY owing to the dependence put
on them that
Large ConfiagratfOns Resulted.
Again the mayor went into a fit and
called on President Freeman to explain
to the necessity of having chemical en-
gines in the department, and also called
attention to the fact that in all large
cities chemicals were considered valu-
able adjuncts in departments.
President Freeman being called on.
said the four chemicals which the board
had decided to cut out we're located at
Conway and Maple, Payne avenue and
York, George street, West st. Paul, and
Victoria and Ashland. Mr.. Haas was
asked what the increase would be by
the cutting out of these four. He said
1re could not tell, but thought it would
have some effect on the rates. The
matter would have to be referred to the
commission at Chicago, and it might
take week before the question could
be answered. 1t being explained that
the water mains having been extended,
and hose carts now being able to cover
the districts the removal of the chemi-