New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1893-12-11
GRESHAM AND THURSTON.
PLAIN WORDS TO THE FORMER.
WHAT OCCURRED AT THE INTERVIEWS
BETWEEN TIE TWO.

THE HAWAIIAN MINISTER BOLDLY TOLD TIM
SECRETARY OF STATE THAT THIS GOVERN.
MENT. HAD NO AUTHORITY FOR MED.
DLING IN THE AFFAIRS OF THE
IsLANDs-GREsHAW WEAK
POSITION
rBY TELEGRAPH THE TRBrxE.1
Washington, Dec. 10.-Another interesting
chapter in the Hawaiian question came 70 hsns
to-day This new information relates 10 wnat
has taken place at the recent interviews De-
tween Secretary Gresham and Minister Thurs
ton at the State Department. There nave
been three of these conferences. In each case
they were held at the request Of Minister Tnurs-
ton, and not at the solicitation OF Secretary
Gresham In fact there good reasons for
believing that Secretary Gresham avoided the
interviews with Hawaiis representative.
The first interview took place Immediately
after the return of Minister Thurston from Chi
cago a few days after the publication In the
newspapers Of the country Of Secretary Gresh-
ANS astounding recommendations to the Pres
dent as to the course to be pursued In settling
the Hawaiian question About week later Q
second conference was held. Last wednesday
the final interview, for the present at least
took place Either Wednesday night or early
Thursday morning Minister Thurston Iets
Washington for San Francisco. intent upon
catching the Alameda, which sails for Honolulu
on Thursday OF this week. and urging vis@'
orous resistance to all demands whatsoever from
the United States.
Mr. THURsToN's BOLD STAND.
Although the details OF the several conferences
are not made public, sufficient is known OF what
occurred during their progress to show clearly
the weakness Of the proposition OF the Al
ministration and the strength OF the PROVISIONAL
Governments side of the case 1t also shows
that while Minister Thurston has refrained from
publicly criticising the Administrations policy,
toward Hawaii. he has displayed commendabis
courage and ability In asserting the dignity and
rights OF Hawaii in his private conferences
with Secretary Gresham
The first conference between the Secretary o(
State and the Hawaiian Minister was long ana
earnest In a manner showing that he was con-
scous of the justice of his cause Minister Thurs
ton began the interview by expressing his great
surprise at the announced policy OF the Admin
istration toward Hawaii. He called the atten-
ton Of Secretary Gresham to the fact that as''
surances from the State Department to attaches
of the Hawaiian Legation had led him to believe
that no action in the case In which ne was soa
greatly interested would be taken without MS
previous knowledge. He said that such assur.
ances had been given only few days before the
appearance in the newspapers Of the country OF
Secretary Gresham's communication recommend
ing to the President the course to be pursued
with respect to the tender Of annexation from the
existing Government Of Hawaii Minister Thurs
ton then asked to be informed,as to the grounds
upon which the Administration based Its con-
clusions in the case. He said that 1t might not
be too late to furnish important Information
which would have the effect of correcting the evi-
IDENTIFY erroneous impressions which the Secretary
entertained.
TIE SECRETARY OF STATES REPLY.
In reply to this request Secretary Gresham sala
that his mind was fully made up az to the SOUND
ness OF his position; that he had not reacned nls
conclusions without carefully considering the
effect OF his ,t.on and that no further informa-
ton on the Hawaiian question was therefore oe-
sired He told Minister Thurston that he had
based his conclusion upon the report OF Specia1
Commissioner Blount. which he believed to con-
tain full and trustworthy information as to tho
circumstances and forces which brought about
the dethronement Of Liliuolsaani.
The Secretary had nothing to say with respect
70 assurances given that Minister Thurstou
would be informed to the conclusions OF the
Administration in the Hawaiian case before the
announcement of its policy. Apparently the
Secretary did not regard assurances OF the State
Department to foreign diplomatic representatives
as a proper subject for discussion. In the pres
ent instance he dismissed the point by ignoring
It, To recur to II would have been undipio-
matte Minister Thurston evidently thought. and
the matter of individual discourtesy gave way
to the international points at issue. Nor did
Secretary Gresham make Minister Thurston IA
miliar with the nature Of the evidence upon
which he based his recommendations TO the
President At no time during the interviews did
the Secretary intimate what the report OF Com
missioner Blount contained He contented him.
self with saying that in his judgment the testi-
mony furnished the State Department In rela-
ton to the causes and Incidents OF the Ha-
waiian revolution was conclusive. 1t will be re-
membered that Minister Thurston first learned
of the contents Of Blount's report the morning
after 1t was given out to the press.
Failing in his efforts to learn what Bount had
reported to be the facts relating to the over.
throw Of Luokalani. Mr. Thurston directed the
conversation into other channels. He asked Mr..
Gresham IL there We're other reasons. OF which
he could speak entering into his decision to
overturn a Republican form Of Government and
re-establlsh a monarchy in Hawaii.
REASONS FOR RESTORING THE QUEEN.
Secretary Gresham replied that there were two
particular reasons which had Influenced his con.
clusions in the case. In the first place, no
said according to the terms Of its own proclamac
ton. the existing Government was organized to
endure until terms Of union could be negotiated
with the United States The proposition for
union had Mr. Gresham said, been thoroughly
considered by the United States. but upon due
deliberation 1t was rejected. The result was
that the object for which the existing Govern
ment had been organized ceased to exist, ana
that the Government itself therefore. lapsed
The Secretary placed particular emphasis upon
his words and endeavored to impress upon MINI
lister Thurston the force of the argument that