Richmond dispatch. [volume] (Richmond, Va.) 1884-1903, 1893-06-03
GET AT THE RUMORS,
The Investigating Committee Striking
at Their Origin and Cause.
STATEMENT BY Mr.. STARKE.
Which He Anerward Denisd-Evi-
denee of Werner and Stokes

Hall contracts heard several important
witnesses last night. Among those pres
ent were nearly every member of the CON-
mittoe. the City Attorney, and Engineer,
Messrs. Waddey, Starke, and Phillips, re-
presenting the bidders, and almost tho
entire Committee on Grounds and Build
ings. Colonel Cutshaw was again placed
on tho stand. and finished his explanations
AS TO the bids. He gated that each meet
ing of the subcommittee TO look into
these bids aud samples was attended by
at least seven out OF the nine members OF
the Committee on Grounds and Build
ings.
BIDDERS AS wITEEssEs.
Mr.. james T.. Phillips, who was given
the contract for the combination gas and
eectric-light fixtures for the new City
Hall, was next to testify. He stated that
he had never agreed 10 anything but his
original bid and claimed that he only
made an approximate estimate as 10
charges. and did not present any modified
bid. Colonel Cutshaw showed the con-
tract which was ready to be signed. The
amount stipulated IN the paper was
S12. $50. 9G. Some time was spent in ex-
amining Mr.. Phillips.
Mr.. Morgan Mills, representing John
Bowers. a competitive bidder of Mr.. Phil
lips. made an explanation Of the details OF
the proposal OF Mr.. Bowers. He stated
that member of the committee had said
that he did not see how Mr.. Bowers could
get his bid down $1,000 below Mr. Phillips
without materially changing the grade OF
fixtures. Such. he assured, was not the
case, as Mr. Bowers did not propose TO put
an inferior fixture in the building.
Mr.. Mills having concluded his testi-
mony, Mr.. Guigon said that Messrs Wad-
dey and Starke should be allowed TO go
upon the stand. Mr.. Murphy did NOT
think IL necessary for these gentlemen to
give large amount of information and
statements which had already been gone
over. He moved that the committee hear
the testimony Of the witnesses summoned
to be present. This motion was with
drawn and Mr.. Waddey said that he had
no statement to make at this pOin.. tie
might ask indulgence at some later time.
SAYS MR.. RPPs DID EXpREss AN OPINION.
When Mr.. Starke was asked if he had
ANYTHING tc say he replied that he wished
to reply TO statement made IN meeting
of the Grounds and Buildings Committee
some time since by Mr.. Epps. that any
ono who had said that he (Epps)
had ever expressed an opinion a5
night when the contract was let was a lar.
Mr.. Starke stated that Mr.. Epps had done
so. and that at least five gentlemen had
heard him. He thought possibly two or
three Others had heard the same remark,
bur would give the names OF four or five
if the committee wished them.
Mr.. Guigon asked what the opinion was
that Mr.. Epps was alleged TO have eN-
pressed. and Mr. Starke replied: 1t was
that the book-fles OF tho Fenton Com
pany, represented by myself, were worth
fully 10 TO 20 per cent. more III point OF
material and workmanship than those OF
the Specially Company. represented by
MIR. Waddey. On the evening that tho
contract was awarded he made Just tho
Opposite statement" The witness sall
that he bad made that statement III regard
to Mr.. Epps and was prepared to sub
stantlate II.
MIR. Starke. upon request of the commit
tee. said that the gentlemen who heard
tins remark were MessrS. III. NJ. Smith. Jr.,
II. NJ. Booze Preston Belyln, hlnself.
and two or three others whose names be
did not then recall.
Just as Sir. StGrko closed his testimony
Mr.. Epps. who had been detained by an
engagement, came III.
Mr. Starke's evidence was read over to
Mr.. Epps. The latter was eager TO contra
diet some parts of 1t and stated that he
had sad that any one who said that he had
EXPRESSED an opinion up TO O'Clock OF
the evening on which tho contracts were
awarded was llar.
wHAT Mr.. CURTIS UNDERSTOOD.
MIR. Curtis, who had been referred 10 by
Mr.. Starke, was asked as to the matter III
connection with himself and Mr.. Epps.
He SAID while he had never heard Mr..
Epps say that the Fenton cases were worth
10 to 20 per cent. more than those or the
Speciality Company from conversations he
Lad had with Mr.. Epps' he (CurtiS) had
drawn the inference that IT was Clearly
tho opinion of MIR. Epps that the Fenton
material was the best.
Mr.. Epps; When did | hive any such
conversations with you, Mr.. Curtis
Mr.. Curtis: Several times. Especially
while on the trip North.
Mr. Epps stated that he had no recOl-
lection Of any such talks, and went on to
say that Mr. Booze, of the Fenton Com
pany Mr.. Starke'sl, had haunted hlm day
and night before that contract was
to him and asked him what I'M
preston be CBoozel had made upon
The COMMITTEES. Mr. Epps SAID that
hs refused to tell him or to
say how he was going to vote.
He was asked 10y Mr., Booze, he remarked
what impression Booze had made upon
Mr.. Carter. His reply was that he had
never seen Mr.. Carter pay more attention
to sny one. MIR. Epps assured the, com;
mittee that the Fenton people had trled
every political pull they could IN order o
get that contract Ii necessary he would
give the names of two men who came and
appealed to him to vote for Mr.. Starke.
Mr.. WERNER on THE STAND.
MIR. Clarence Werner was then placed on
tho stand. He was asked TO tell the COM
mittee what statement he made to Mr..
Guigon in regard to the award OF these
contracts. He said that he could not tell
the exact words, but ne would give the
facts as best he could. He met Messrs.
Guigon and Starke some weeks ago and re-
peated to them what he had been tolu.
The Chair stated that ne could not say
what he had heard. but must tell what he
knew.
MIR. Gulgon thought the witness should
be allowed 10 repeat that statement. Mr..
Kelvin. who was not present, had been
advised of the meeting and asked TO be
present. The investigation should be Just
as tull as possible, and II was perfectly
competent for that evidence TO come IN.
He said there had been rampant rumors
of improper conduct IN THIS matter anu
argued that Mr.. Werner should be
permitted to make the statement ne start
al 10 make. He said he did not Deileve
the rumors spoken of. but he did want
them investigated. The Council OF the
CITY of Richmond could not afford to have
rumors of improper action on their part.
He appealed TO the Chair TO permit the
witness TO proceed.
MIR. Meredith did not exactly agree with
Mr.. Guigon. considering that hearsay evl-
dence should not be moro permisslole III
a church than in court. lie suggested
that course should be followed by whieh
II could be ascertained whether or not the
statement referred to reflected upon any
member or members of the Committee on
Grounds and Buildings, and II so. wnonn.
Then il objections were not raised as 10
hearsay testimony by those persons ahected
by the language IL would be proper ior
the witness TO proceed.
REfLgcrED UPON Mr.. EPPs.
MIR. Werner was then asked il the con;
yersatlon with Mr.. Belyin rejected
upon any member of the Committee.on
Grounds and Buildings. and no repiied
that it reflected upon MIR. Epps.
The latter said that MIR. Belvin, VINO
was out of the city, had stated 10 him tha'
he had told Werner nothing.
At this juncture Mr.. Epps made briet
statement, In which he said that he bad
nothing to conceal. He would be on trial,
but would come ont all right. He did not
want THAT man" to testify as TO the taik
alleged TO have occurred between Mr.. BEL
win and others unless Mr. Belvin were
Mr.. Carter asked the City Attorney II
Mr.. Belvin could be compelled 70 attenu