Evening star. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1854-1972, 1893-12-11
GRESHAM AND THURsTON,
The Reported Substance of the Thre,
Conferences Between Them.

The Reported Substance of the Three
Conferences Between Them.
A special to the New York Tribune from
this city, dated yesterday, says:
Another interesting chapter in the Ha-
~ailan question has come to light. This
new information relates to what has taken
place at the recent interviews between Sec
retary Gresham and Minister Thurston at
the State Department. There have been
three of these conferences In each case
they We're held at the request of Minister
Thurston. and not at the solicitation of
Secretary Gresham. In fact, there are good
reasons for believing that Secretary Gresh-
am avoided the interviews with Hawaii S
representative.
Although the details of the several con-
ferences are not made public, sufficient is
known of what occurred during their pro-
gresS to show clearly the weakness of the
proposition of the administration and the
strength of the provisional government s
side OF the case.
The First Conference.
In the first conference Minister Thurston
asked TO be informed as to the grounds upon
which the administration based it's conclu-
sions in the case. He said that it might not
be too late to furnish important information
which would have the effect of correcting
the evidently erroneous Impressions which
the Secretary entertained.
In reply to this request Secretary Gresham
said that his mind was fully made up as
to the soundness of his position: that he
had not reached his conclusions without
carefully considering the effect of his ac-
tion, and that no further information on the
Hawaiian question was, therefore, desired.
He told Minister Thurston that he had bas-
ed his conclusion upon the report of Special
Commissioner Blount, which he believed to
contain full and trustworthy information as
to the circumstances and forces which
brought about the dethronement Of Liliuo-
kalani.
At no time during the interviews did the
Secretary intimate what the report of Com
missioner Blount contained. He contented
himself with saying that in his judgment
the testimony furnished the State Depart
ment in rela ton to the causes and incidents
of the Hawaiian revolution was conclusive.
1t will be remembered that Minister Thurs
ton first learned of the contents of Blount' s
report the morning after 1T was given out
to the press.
Failing in his efforts to learn what Blount
had reported to be the facts relating to the
overthrow of Liliuokalani, Mr.. Thurston
asked Mr. Gresham If there were other rea.
sons, of which he could speak, entering into
his decision to overturn republican form
of government and re-establish a monarchy
in Hawaii.
Reasons for Restoring the Queen.
Secretary Gresham replied that there were
two particular reasons which had influenced
his conclusions in the case. In the first
place. he said, according to the terms of its
own proclamation, the existing government
was organized to endure until terms of
union could be negotiated with the United
States. The proposition for union had, Mr.
Gresham said. been thoroughly considered
by the United States. but upon due delibera-
ton Ii was rejected. The result was that
the object for which the existing govern
ment had been organized ceased to exist
and that the government itself, therefore
lapsed.
Minister Thurston's Reply.
Minister Thurston was fully prepared for
such an argument. In answering he said
that as Secretary Gresham's premises were
erroneous his conclusions were faulty and
inapplicable in the present case. The proc
lamation of the provisional government did
say that 1t should endure until terms of
union with the United States were negoti-
ated, but the proclamation set no time in
which such negotiation should take place,
nor did the trainers of the proclamation in.
tend that there should be any fixed period
In which the consummation to be wished
should be carried into execution. Further
more. the existing government properly re-
served to itself the right to determine with
respect to its own side of the case when
eHorts TO secure union with the United
states were unsuccessful. Such a union
might result in one month after negotia tions
were begun. 1t might be years before they
were consummated However short or long
the period during which negotiations to this
emo were pending, the time when they were
10 De regarded as having ended and the
question as to whether or not the provis.
lonal government lapsed in consequence of
dallure TO secure union with the United
neither the United States nor any other
power having no proprietorship in Hawaii
could determine ''''
MI. Thurston here made the point that the
rejection by the United States of the Offer
or annexation from Hawaii put an end 70
any ana all jurisdiction over the islands
MLhister Ihurston called attention to the
Iact tnat the destiny of the existing gov
erHment was not a subject for arbitra tion
by the United States. Even assun,inp tbot
the good offices of Minister Stevens and the
services of the Boston's marines had been
essehtai factors IN the revolution which re-
suited IN the ascendancy to power of the
provisional government, that government
could not rightfully be held Responsible or
De punished for the acts of Minister Stevens
or Capt. Wiltse.
Mr. Gresham's Second ReasOn
Pressed by Minister Thurston for further
Information. Secretary Gresham said that
his second reason for deciding adversely in
the appeal of Hawaii for annexation to the
emitted States was intimately associated
with the one dIreddy given. 1t was that the
abdication of the queen was made under the
condition that she gave up power pending
settlement of questions involved at Wash
ington. Now, Secretary Gresham said. a
settlement at Washington has been made
1t was one which was adverse to the title
OF the provisional government and the prop.
erty involved reverted, consequently To tbs
rightful claimant. To this process of rea-
soning Mr.. ThUrston replied that the pro-
vtsional government had never accepted the
conditions of abdication of the queen as ex-
pressed in her protest upon her forced re-
received, indorsed and filed just as that OF
deposed consul or minister would be dealt
with by Secretary Gresham.
The Second Conference.
The second conference at the State De-
partment was a brief one. 1t related tC
Paramount" Blount's report which had
been published in the press the day before
In a general way Minister Thurston pointed
out the Inconsistencies of the report and
hled with Secretary Gresham a written an
swer to some of the issues raised. At We'd
nesday's interview Mr.. Thurston demanded
70 De informed of the nature of the instruc-
tlCns given and sent to Minister Willis
w nat the reply of Secretary Gresham was
Is sun cause for much speculation. 1t is q
slgnincant fact however. that within a few
nours after the reply was given Minister
InurStOn started by he