New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1893-12-17
DETAILS OF THE DEBATE.
afESSRS CANNON. LACEY AND MORSE DEFEND
TIE UNION OBSERVATION-DISCLOSURES
AKIN ESIOF IN REPLY

NEssEs. CANNON. LACEY AND MORSE DEFEND
TIE UNION soLDIERs-LIvINGsToN
AND ENLOE IN REPLY.
WASHINGTON. Dec 16-The Speaker laid before
the House the House bill with Senate amend
ments to provide for three Assistant Justices
of the Supreme Court Of the Territory OF Ok
lahoma-
Mr.. Culberson (Dem.. Tex). chairman Of the
Judiciary Committee moved that the Senate
amendments. which reduce the number OF
Assistant Judges to two. be concurred In. which
was DONE and the bill was sent to the Presi-
dent for approval.
. Early in the morning hour Mr. Breckin-
ridge Dem, Ky) called UP the Urgent De-
@ficiency bill, and asked that the first reading OF
the bill be dispensed with. to which there was
no objection.
The House then went into Committee OF the
Whole upon the BILL with Mr.. Hatch Dem.
MOI in the chair and Mr.. Cannon Rep. I'D
took the floor and attacked the Administra-
TONS policy Of suspending pensions pending ex-
aminations for fraud. Mr.. Cannon stated that
the Commissioner Of Pensions and various
chiefs Of divisions Of the Pension Office had been
called before the Committee on Appropriations
and asked many questions in regard to the con-
duct of business. The Commissioner Of Pen
sions stated that the actual saving resulting
from the Investigations for fraud since May
/. when that ruling Of Commissioner Lochren
went into effect. something over $1,000
Ooo On crcss-examination it appeared that the
exact amount which was saved during this
period was only $31 900.
Mr.. Dngley Rep, Me- asked whether this
ss1 900 included the reductions well as the
disallowances for fraud.
Certainly" replied Mr.. Cannon. Continuing,
he said that the Commissioner Of Pensions had
stated that in the conduct of the business of his
office. which disburses from s150OoOOO0 to $780,,
900 900 to over 1000 900 persons. there was no
more fraud than In the ordinary conduct Of
business in the courts.
Mr.. Enloe Dem. TENN asked Mr.. Cannon
who had changed the construction Of order
No. 1914
AN ACT AKIN TO CRIME.
Mr.. Cannon replied that it was done by the
present Commissioner of Pensions and the
present Secretary OF the Interior In May.
1s93 with William Lochren. Commissioner Ct
Pensions: Hoke Smith. Secretary OF the In
terror, and Grover Cleveland, President of the
United States the Pension Office made haste
to revoke order No. 164. thus cutting off about
100000 pensioners. and had thus committed an
act which akin to a crime. Mr.. Cannon
believed that soldier seventy-fve years of
age was entitled 10 pension, anu SHouiu NC put
on the list without controversy: he believed
that rs per cent Of the men OF that age who
had gone through the war were physically and
mentally disabled.
- Mr. Morse Rep. Mass) said he had the appli-
cation Of a man eighty-four years of age, which
had been refused by the Pension Office.
Mr. Cannon said he had no doubt Of 1t. but
stated that seventy-fve years did not necessarily
imply physical incapacity. and In support OF
this assertion he pointed to Mr.. Bundy. Rep
resentative from Ohio. who Is seventy-sx years
of age and to Senator Palmer from his own
State Of Illionis seventy-fve years Of age. who
were able to discharge their duties and keep
abreast with the youngest.
Mr. Enloe asked whether man who was
titled to a pension under the law Of 1890 should
take precedence OF one whose disabilities were
OF service origin.
Mr. Cannon replied that the law made no dis
tinction on account of the cause OF disability.
He spoke Of the hardness with which cases
were adjudicated under the present Administra-
ton as compared with the previous Under
the Cleveland Administration $4,000 certificates
had been issued. while during the corresponding
period Of General Raum's administration Of the
Pension Office $4,000 pensions had been granted
nearly three times as many.
COLD PLACE FOR PENSIONERS.
Some one may ask" said Mr.. Cannon. In
conclusion, whether I intend to attack the
Pension once. No. do not but intend to at
tack the atmosphere Of the Pension ONCE which
n now about twenty degrees below normal"
Mr.. Livingston Dem., Ga) defended the policy
Of the Administration In regard to pension mat
ters. He was frequently interrupted by Mr..
Van voorhis Nsp, N. 10 MI. Baker Qsep.