The Seattle post-intelligencer. [volume] (Seattle, Wash. Terr. [Wash.]) 1888-1914, 1893-01-31
WAR OF POLEMICS.
Religionist Braden Versus
Skeptic Charleswortk.
SIX woRDY BATTLES TO BE HAD.
Opening 1t the Armory Between Repre-
sentatives OF the Ministers and
the Sec al ariats.


civ. began at the Armory last night. By
the terms of the agreement these gentle
men are TO consume six days in this de-
bate. The first three nights Mr.. Braden
and Mr. Char!esworth take the affirmative
and negative respectively on the following
proposition:
Re.o.red, That the idea and principles incul-
catcI In the language OF the Bible, and that the
acts uttersnces and language Of divine beings
and inspired men ascr bed to them by the BIZ
bic harmonic with ripht use of human rea-
son aud that mankind, acting in obedience to
divine command may secure all the happiness
and progress OF which man is capable.
The last three nights will be taken up
in the discussion of the following, Mr..
Charleswortn on the affirmative and Mr..
Braden on the negative:
Resolued That the ideas and principles incul.
cated By modern secuiarism harmonise with q
night use OF human reason, that they will secure
the highest use OF human reason and that they
are sufficient-entirely ignoring all ideas OF
God. spirit and future life and all ideas neces-
sa.iiy based on those ideas-to secure to man.
kind all happiness and progress OF which man
Il capable.
Under the terms of the agreement each
side chose a moderator. the Rev. X. T..
Dunlap appearing tor the ministers and
ton. These two united in the choice OF
Mayor J. T. Ronald TO preside.
The meeting of last night opened the
series. The moders,ors chosen occupied
the stage. Mr.. Braden began at $3.50. He
started out with saying that the first step
in this discussion was TO get at the very
basic idea of our existence, to lind the
truth and to live up to it. Belief
was first aud most important. The as
sumption so co mmonly set forth that be-
lief was OF no consequence if one did
right, he said, was the same as saying that
Ii did not matter what one ate If he di-
gested properly. Our highest motive
to right must proceed from rea-.
son, since that faculty was the
highest in us. This is not any individual
reason, but the highest collective reason
of the race. To this resort to reason, the
speaker said he was willing to submit
every question, such as ''Is there God ?"
ais the Christian God the real one?"
"What is the true revelation why
not treat the Bible and the Messiah as the
bibles and messiahs of other reiigions2"
The speaker said he accepted the Bible
as containing the truth and not the con-
tents of the book as true because it was
in the Bible. He concluded his halt hour
with the statement that no ideas
were generally accepted by the higeest
reason of the race nor so universal as the
Biblical ideas of revelation of divine lead
ership. incarnation, forgiveness of sins,
miracles, etc. II can count on the fingers
of my two hands all the atheists who
have gone down in history as truly great
men,"
Mr. Charlesworth began his side by an
utter denial of his opponents last state
ment: If the signs of the times proved
l anything they proved the wide
/ spread of theological decay. How
could his antagonist dogmatize about
First Great Cause. why affirm
its necessity before he had found
1 out all of natures causes and effects?
i Everything Mr.. Braden had said was one
/ Of an endless train of causes and effects.
/ Where was the chain to be broken to per-
| init the introduction of the First Great
Cause? Man, Mr.. Braden might say. was
Q religious animal; yet. as a matter of
i fact, as man acquired religion he
became lying animal. Tell me any ami
NAL that ever lied to you" said Mr..
Charleworth. tAppIause.l AS to the
alleged universally of religion, Mr..
Charesworth tiatly denied il, and quoted
Sir John Lubbock's prehistoric Man"
and the Rev. T. Dove, a clergyman, as
showing that the Tasmanians for one
! were entirely devoid OF thought of such
| thing as God. a future state, or the like.
Il The same was true of the Andamman
Islanders the Australian aborigines, the
samoans and the Esquimaux. If his rev.
efend antagonist were to take a child
and rear it in perfect solitude. its mind
would be a perfect blank as to such things.
These ideas come only by being impaired.
81 To Mr.. Braden's alleged universally of
| the belief in miracles he again took
exceptions. There never was such a
thing as a miracle. A miracle
J vas thing which presupposed
the suspension OF the laws of nature, and
Il that were possible no fact of science
could stand, no experiment III the chem
lists laboratory be certainly successful.
D1d any man really believe that Christ
) lad fed 5000 persons with two biscuits
anu five sardines and had twelve baskets of
crumbs beside. The Christians tried 10
explain this by saying that God could per-
FORM anything he chose: could God make
sciock 10 strike less than one, two hills
5 without valley between them, >
= year-old colt IN two minutes? Re-
ierFiag to the doctrine Of the atonement
he said he did no, think any man could
'ake away from another the responsibility
o. his acts. that any number of Christs
icyiGg Il thousand deaths each could not
&aae any one of his wrong acts any less
: wrong. Mr.. Charlesworth was applauded
lssood deal during his remarks and fire.
eaent!y raised laughter
NJ. Braden began his reioinder with
Tie remark that he desired no ap-
pause, as the truth should stand on It's
can merits. His remarks we're addressed.
&c said, 20 those with brains in their
READ and no, in their heels. He
$50 referred TO his antagonist as a
'oTelGneE'' The greater part of his
scond half hour was given over to phil
iosphical attempt TO prove that if law gov
ened the universe, as Mr.. Charlesworth
maintained, there must Be something ike
supreme reason back of it.
Mr.. Charlesworih got up at 10 &C cordine
programme II reply finally for the
nthlns. lie began by saying that Mr.
Hfaaens request that no annlauss ha
gwen was case OF sour grapes He also
@hs'dered that Mr.. Braden's reference =,
a@lhs III the feet vas an Insult.to The in.
*.Asence of his audience.
IL ~Ss trUe that be was born abroad
WI lie was 3 better American than his
iAAsOniSt. He the sneaker v,as ,,...h