New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1889-08-27
GLADDEN. AND GUNTON.
THE GREAT DEBATE ON TRUSTS AT CHAU.
TAUQUA
AN ATTACK ON THE STANDARD OIL COMPANY
BY THE OHIO SOCIAL IEFoRMER-TpE
POLITICAL ECONOMIST DEFENDS
TIE MONOPOLY.
IBf TELEGRAPH TO THE TaIBCNE.1

IBf TELEGRAPH TO THE TaBCSE.1
Chantauqua, Aug. 26.-The debate on trusts between
IT. washington GLADDEN., of Columbus Ohio the we'll
hhoWn social refOrmer and George Gunt0n, OF New
iorR, tho writer political economy who was sent
here Dy the Standard on Company for this especial
purpose took place this morning the Amphihcatre.
mere are generally but few people left the closing
Jay Oh The Assembly bu. the interest in the debate
was such that several hundred stayed until the
afternoon train including nearly all the visitors from
inc OIL regions with whom the Standard OF Company
anu us dongs are topics OF perennial and vital inter
cs'' ana many newcomers from the nelghboriug re-
Sor'' along the lake. The debatcrs the plat
of precisely at IL O'Clock. by which time the house
was packed The contrast IN their manner and per-
sohai appearance was striking the contras. in
'hef opinion Both bald and bearded, and each has
high full forehead bu. Lr. GLADDEN. Is broad and
heaVy, with large, earnest eyes and deliberate and
ulshihed demeanor, while his opponent Is small and
slender with sharp feriey expression and habit Of
Noen gesticulatiOn and excable and hurried speech
Ihe speakers were introduced by George Vincent who
explained that Dr. GLADDEN. would state his In a
'"ohly minute speech and would then be replied to by
"i' "uhtoh after which each speaker would occupy
an additional ten minutes. The original arrangement
was Tor two hfteen-mnute speeches each SIDE but
,ns was changed at Or. Gladden's request. a black
ooa mad been brought upon the stage and nailed to
'aoie' and this was used for Illustrations.
MI Vincent. having reminded the audience that the
anar was not OF Kilkenny cat
order, Dr. GLADDEN. said that the debate
was simply inquiry after n7th and that II his op
poncht was able to state more truth I'm the allotted
'le IMAM he was, he should have his applause. lie
ooh'nued: My friend devoted much time the other
day 10 proving that concentration OF wealth
DRESSING This had already admitted in previous
lecture and what he said about factories was also
o'Po|d, on the whole to agree with. The dfSad-
Vantages and drawbacks Of the institutions. however,
think he did not adequately state. He forgot to
mat While they preached nter-dcpendence. their ten
uehcy Is 10 eliminate independence. know from
ny own constant acquaintance with the labOrfng
classes for thirty years that the massIng OF labor in
corporations has evil effect. and that the intro
ducng Of the immoral impcrsOnality of combinations
must work for harm in many ways. ! contcnded
also that trusts do not always stop at suppressing
Wholesome competition, but that the contrary. the
OBJECT OF those who organize and conduct them Is
altogether TO suppress competition, wbch they have
already done. Is there any effective competition with
tho Sugar Trust which claims to control eighty five
per cent Of the sugar in the United States Is fifteen
any fair match for eighty five! And Is 1t a wholesome
thing to put elghty-fve per cent Of the production of
necessity Of life into the hands of eleven rresponsi
bic menl
The standard OF claims to control about seventy
five per cent OF the refined oil OF the country. think
IT. can be shown to control ninety per cent Is il safe
TO put that power into the hands OF secret company
Of men who never show us their books, and whose
business we know nothing about7 The table the
first page OF the Standard Oil Company's own PAM
Ihlet shows that the annual percentage of reduction
in the price of oil per cent before the forna-
lion Of any combination and for the next nine years
only seven per cent while since 1881 1t has been only
about two per cent and the whole of this reduction is
due to the reduction in the price Of crude OIL for which
the trust not responsible The cost Of pr0duc
ton and the cost Of refining and transportation has
decreased. Figures have been adduced to show that
there has been reduction. but that IS standard OIL
arithmetic. II the price OF refined oil had been re-
duced in proportion TO the reduction Of the Price OF
crude oil. the price would be today 100 cents
gallon instead of 7o-l0O cents Instead of giving to
the public 300 900 000 their attorney claims, they
have taken ST. 900 900 than they were entitled
to. When tho Sugar Trust was formed certificates
were issued of the stock OF the original
companies. Their purpose is, SO far as possible. to
suppress competition. Tho North American SAILS
Company proposes to take into ito hands at once at
least ,eveneghths OF all OF the salt wells In the United
st ates or the output Of 100 salt wells which they con-
troll What effective competition can be brought
10 bear against such organization ae that! They
have seen and know what power trust possesses 10
eyterminate competition, and multtudes OF reineHes
and laboIerS are idle to-day VINO nave Deen drNen ou'
Of work By these trusts
Mr. Gunton responded to the call of time. lie De-
gan by SAYING: DR.. GLADDEN. asked you, What is the
object of a trustl | ask you, What IS the ehect OF
trust! The object of every business man Is to make
money. lie not considering the connN' anu i1
only object Is to get control and prosper But an
men are subject social laws and influences Wcn 10
legislature can control The question IS nor h 50 nca
what trusts would like TO DO. but What 'ler c,Iro'
will be Dr. GLADDEN. Gays they want to suppress com.
petition and quotes from standard OH RanpnTIeee
and SAYS he can't understand the arithlleuc IT, ino
rrport, of the daily commercial Journals VIII 1--WE 9ou
every day the market prices ana the piouu ', oA
change reports be traced back 10 the ucE,m ~
~ that there IS no need 10 depend on the stanGafu ~
COMPANY The table he quoted to snow lnat 'n9 PIiS
of refined oil had not fallen as much as cruS O'i I
us m auply proportion TO show what the 0ther tu"c
lion should be- Now. friends thai Is thc .lvn h ~,
trade lie made those facts be like darkness Whcn
b@v we're as true 40 daylight lie says the percentage
. .beSH T'I be the same But let's take the PERCENTAGE
on - and the percentage on are they aiho rhat
rule would show that the rise IN "dses HI W. -
guy o dlsbnnest as any statement ever made TO
say that quarter OF twenty is equal to oneour,n
a tour The Journal Of Commerce reports and an
" orcIe have recently published, on which spent
three months labor. viii show that In is9o cruz S
was JIlOO cents per gallon IN is oapcr oda1 than
in ESQ Refined oil Is more than two cents CHEAPER
than in 1880 Now what becomes Of ME HAT cana be-
dealt with either by clergy or aymen which T is snow
that nothing IS equal 10 90 T ena uo oHt OF zero
Can you find II ont Of nothing than than the
have Investigated monopoies other hd ,hsn , ,bo
western Union was organized, IL cost ~ ~ 10
send message from New-iork to Cnicaso' ou IN
Isso IL costs 40 cents. To 81. Louis
It was 81 3D. but Dr. GLADDEN. pleads for fair cont
petition Now the standard OIL COMPANY innS
tlcailv the greatest monopoly In Dr. GLADDEN. senoc
tSa there IS II has kept competition out by sheer
superiority in supplying Inc nceH be capital Of
Europe would have been organized against IT, o ana ass
would either have had to reduce the price or eise
bought out IT'S opponents. I don't believe IL ever
did anything with the object of bonehng sne pTot,
but sheer selhshness has caused It to 90 So co s
sboyy that every trust has learned from deathy COM
petition by the public that tho only thihs ns conn
keen Them alive Is their better service 10 inc Gum
munity What becomes OF the undersold man o't y,
of two things II you keep him IN ms PUSHES Sc "
will cost more 10 sustain him by his faoulous puce
than TO rraintan him pauper; and 10 tsAe ar
OF him Is to put premium Oh inoo"p"'o'i ~
deadlock I'm tho way Of progress. 8, A.o.o, ro,,,,
Dr. Gladden. I'm reply TO Mr. Gunfons neaeu peru, d
ton. asked this question How NAM ~ mcrics for
The sake Of having oil few cents cheaper LIE
a pretty ser,ous thing TO manuiactur pauPtrs anu
av Pden,ir men of their business incentive you prac
tcally make them paupcIs" rms staemon' "''