, 1889-07-18

Mr. GrlfnttS gave IlOtlce OF desire 10
debate, and claimed that this notice,
under the rules, carried the matter over
till tomorrow.
The chair said those rules were not
applicable to the committee of the
whole.
Mr.. Suksdorf submitted substitute
for the committees report, providing for
the constitution of a legislature, the
style of its enactments, It's powers, the
number Of senator's (1s7 and representa-
tives (5i), for an increase IN the future,
and the house 90, and that this same
ratio of three to one should always be
maintained; also provisions for district
ing the state into election and senatorial
districts.
Mr.. Warner, referring to the last de.
cision Of the chair, claimed that the
rules were TO be observed in committee
of the whole $50 far as. applicable"
The chair ruled In this case that they
Mr.. Dunbar inquired If there was any
question or motion before the conven-
ton.
The Chair-Yes; the motion of Mr..
Comegys.
Mr. Dyer quoted rule 81 to sustain his
point of order that the introduction OF
Mr.. Suksdorf's substitute was out OF
order.
The chair sustained the point, and
ruled Mr.. Suksdorfs proposed substi-
tute out,
Mr. Turner-I move to amend by pro-
viding that the senate shall consist OF
not less than 33 nor.
Mr. Sulivan--I call the gentleman to
order. An amendment is already before
the committee.
Mr.. Turner-This is an amendment to
that amendment, which have the right
to move. Then proceeding) g)-nor more
than so, and the house not less than 90
nor more than $50, and the first egisla.
house of 90, and SO remain until other.
wise ordered. In support of his motion,
JUDGE TURNER
said that experience had shown that
very small legislative bodies were more
open to corrupt influences than large
ones when corporate influences or other
influences prcJudicial TO the peoples in
tercsts sought 10 obtain legislative con
troll, and as to the expense, that was but
a small item; and as 20 the larger maxi.
mum numbers stated the state was to
grow SO great, populous and wealthy
that this larger number will soon be-
come necessary,
Mr.. J. u. Moore said the legislative
committee had recommended that the
senate be not less than 80 and the house
not less than "a. Their idea was to es.
tablish q ratio of TO ., for this greatly
facilitated apportionment, and he pre-.
ferred that rates to the one proposed by
Mr.. Turner viz One to three, several
new states had come into the Union
with small legislatures and seemed 10
thrive with the lesser number. We are
informed that the state is to have a
smaller judiciary force than the bar had
contemplated, on the score of economy,
and yet the chairman of the judiciary
committee proposes TO burden the state
with AN extra expense of about $l44 pet
day, to say nothing of mileage and con
tingent expenses which would probably
run the expenses to ut least $3.50 per
day. As TO the
CORRUPT MANIPULATioY
OF legislative bodies, he recalled some
scandals in the United States house OF
escntatives-notably the Credit Mo.
bilier which had been manipulated
when the house had about 1875 members
In a council of twelve members there is a
weight of responsibility which is more
easily lodged or excused in a body OF
100.
Mr.. Comeggs said his own preferences
would have been for senate of 25 sand
a house of 50, but he had made the fig
ures 80 and 80 In his amendment, as q
sort of compromise, which is more than
treble the number of the present legisla.
ture.. He purposely omitted TO fix any
maximum number
He believed that nipsty men We're fully
enough to manage the legislative affair:
of the state; that larger bodies were slow
in handling the public business; that
there was very little difference in the
matter of manipulation, and that on tn,
score of economy smaller number was
preferable, as IL would save the stat,
about 800 to $500 per day. He there
fore opposed Judge Turner'S amend
ment.
Mr.. Kinnonr expressed similar views
and thought IL unnecessary to make the
house three times as large as the senate
II corporations desire TO
INFLUENCE LEGISLATION
they invariably attacked the smaller
branch, and so nothing was gained bN
making the house three times as large
He approved of making the house twic,
the size of the senate and leaving tn,
maximum unfixed.
Mr.. Warner coincided with Judg,
Turner as to the size of the legislature
As n new state there would be many i'm
portaut subjects to deal with, and tn,
legislature should be large. But he op
posed the ratio of three to one; and n,
would have the two branches nearer al
equality in the matter of numbers. Cor
ruptions always seek the smaller mum
ber anyhow, and when II Is so small "a.
In legislature of eighty-four, IL was i'm
possible to get corporate legislature
because the number was so small tha
the corporations could influence them.
Mr.. Browne agreed that the legisla
ture should be large, but thought tn,
senate should be little larger and tn,
house little smaller than the figure.
named He thought the convention
might agree on some number that vii
still leave that matter open for futur,
discussion. He favored the figures thirty
three and nincty-nine as being multi
pies of each other and of three also. ant
thus more convenient in settling ques
tions of apportionment, and referred I,
the importance of this matter when tn,
question of minority representation
came to be considered, as II must be
before the work Of the convention was
done.
Mr.. Convey believed in the idea that
small bodies were more easily manipu
lated, but said that wisdom would moi
die with this convention and that future
amendments could be made to fit future
circumstances. He favored fixing q
minimum and maximum number, the
apportionment commission TO fix the
rest, and made motion to that effect in
the nature of a substitute.
Judge Turner raised point of order
that this could not be done, as there was
already pending an amendment to an
amendment, which was ns far as the
matter of amendment could go.
Several voices were heard saying
"This was n substitute and not an
amendment" but Judge Turner claimed
that il all came to the same thing.
Judge Hoyt said the calling an amend
ment Il substitute did not alter 1t any
that IL was an amendment just the
same, and clearly cut of order.
The rboir-Ou surb