New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1888-02-21
ABB G. TRUST UN )hk FINE.
THE SENATORS BL4s1s vs THE SUGAR MEN.
KsrIMoHY NOT BRISK BEFORE THE L. vEsTIdAT-
INo COMMIITEE-AN UNWILLING MITNEsA

| investigation yesterday with the Sugar Irus
| Chairman Arnold called the committee to ordt
| in the Supreme Court, Part III, shortly after
| o'clock On his left sat the three Democrat
members, Messrs. Langbein, Lnson and Ives, Will
| supporting him on the right were Messrs. Cogg'
shall, O'Connor and Walker Republican member
| From the determ ned appearance of the Senator
il could be readily seen by all OF those presen
that the pryings of the committee into the affair
| Of the trusts and corporations would be withou
| favo. General Ro -er A. Pryor and Colonel Gcorg
Bliss appeared for the representatives Of the State
and John Il. Parsons and Mr. Dos Passos wer
there for the Sugar Truat.
Immediately after the chairman had called tn
committee to order Mr. Parsons arose and aske
if the witnesses would be allowed to have tn
advice of counsel during the Investigation. Sena
tor Arnold replied that his companions and him
self had discussed that matter thoroughly and ha..
SSea un hss sOma HremeT
Witness Witness did iOD not f feel '' competent TT tt
answer without first consulting with his lawyer
Mr.. Parsons said that he appeared for Mr.. IIaver
meyer, tho first witness, and he was allowed {,
remain to instruct his client matters that Mr.
Havermeycr did not like to venture into unaded
Mr.. HAvEMEYER TAKES THE CHAIR.
Henry o. Havemeyer first took the witnes:
chair, and answered the customary questions al
W HOnc anu OCCupdJlOHs Ilc Dtcu Ill UT
sugar refining business for twenty years, is now
refinerics in the combination The first
questions Of any material Importance
asked OF him concerned entirely the formation OF
the combination The word trust" was care
fully excluded from the vocabulary OF both ques
toner and witness. Colonel Bliss put the oues-
tons Here are some OF them:
o.-whss renneres do you own controli Al am
president Of the Havcmeyors Elder the DE Castro
4 Bonner Sugar Refining COmDanps
Q.-How was the combination forrned7 A.-The
stockholders OF the various companies surrendered their
stock TO the board OF trustees and In received
certificates OF stock In the new combination.
Q.-Who the members OF this board A.-Theo-
doro A. Havemeyer president; John F. sesrles, secre
tary; Jules A. Sternberg, a. o. Matthiescn William
Dix Charles Zepp. John L. Parsons j. Il. Shomes and
J. o. Foster.
Q-What corporations outside OF tho State q New York
surrendered stock to this combnaoni Al refuse to
answer.
discussion here followed to whether the
witness should be compelled to answer questions
pertaining TO companies outside OF the State.
The chairman was appealed TO, and he replied that
the committee had also discussed that point at
great length and the unanimous decision was that
all questions likely TO throw any light upon trusts
or combinations should be answered by the wit
ness. The question was however, deferred until
later, when Mr.. llavemeyer was TO be allowed to
have an opportunity to consult with his attorney
on this and other matters that might arise. The
examination continued as follows:
Q.Was the transfer Of stock TO the hands OF the
tees for any money consideration AThero merely
a transfer OF certificates
Q.-Who has the custody OF the certificate book! A
do not know can furnish the certificates
THE VALUE OF CERTIFICATES AND STOCK.
There was here long bubble over the value Of
the shares stock certificates held by the various
stockholders But with all his cunning Colonel
Bliss could not get from the witness the real face
value of the shares. They merely represented
stock held in the combination according TO the
value of the property transferred. But
the witness finally admitted that the certificates
represented three or four times the stock sur
rendered. Colonel Bliss went on:
Q.When member of this combination surrenders the
stock controlled by him to the board could he at time
return the certificates granted to him and regain
sion Of his original stock3 A,-No. sir.
Q.-Under those conditions. Mr.. Havemeycr, did you
not surrender the In this board
in consideration that received certificate that gave
interest in all other rehneries belonging to the
organzationi A.-That Is about the idea.
Odd not all OF the renneries belonging tn this or
surrender the control their q" hiS
boardf A.-No, sir: the corporations conducted their
own business as before. ,
The question, Were there any rcfincries In the
United States that refused to come into the trust
Mr. Havemeyer refused to answer. taking the grount
which he originally held, that the committee had
outside the State. The committee decided TO the
however, and the witness said that the
planters of NewOrle.ns and the st. Louis re-
imeries were still out OF the combination. Their
daily output before the consolidation was about
2, 600 barrels In regard TO the powers OF the
Board Of TT lstees, the witness was not Mt all
clear The agreement uniting the reiineries was
made about November l. There were no meet
ings of representatives Of the various companies
but John T.. Parsons made all the arrangements
and Mr. Havemeyer was the first to sign the con-
tract
o-Can you name any reAneries situated In the City
of New.York that not In the pooli A-Thee were
several practically OF ceeount that did not go into
the pool
o-Is II not true that there several rehneries
that did not then 60 IN but since done So A-No
sr-I beg pardon, there was one. the North River
Company.
COLONEL BLISS APPEALS FOR AUTHORITY.
This point Colonel Bliss referred to the com
mittec, asking to have it passed upon, for Mr..
Havemeyer did not answer it at first. =" The rea-
son that | appeal TO the committee this point
he said " is because l intcnd to make IL the base
Of my examination. The combination has affect,
ed the cost OF the raw material IN the market
and has made the selling price firmer About
32, 600 barrels of the possible daily output are
by the trust and only 5000 by other
Although some G the renefies are
the profits made by the continuation Have
meyer q Elder have reduced the daily manu-
facture by one-fourth Of what It formerly was;
restless and fretful. The sharp questions of the
lawyer had nettled him greatly Colonel Bliss
syer.
Il decline to do so,' said the witness
Q.-On what ground do you base your refusal SIR !
A-On the advice Of my counsel who has Informed me
that you have right to question me at all
Q.-Do you positively refuse 70 answeri Al DO.
PLAIN ANSWER AT LAST.
Colonel Bliss referred to the chairman, who
allowed to the witness and his lawyer ten min
utes for consultation On Dir. Ilavemeyer's re-
turn 10 the witness chair the same question was
put. -,
" 1 refuse to present the agreement the sugar
replied. 1t is III Mr.. Parsons 5
hands, and he refuses to recognize my right to
iemand it from him l base my deciination on
ali those grounds and they entitle me to refuse
i" l now ask the committee to call Mr. Par
sons shouted Colonel Bliss
Have you subpoena for me p asked the at
torney in a sneerng tone.
Yes, that has been provided for" answered
Chairman Arnold.
Before Mr.. Parsons took the chair the Senators
asked Mr.. IIavemeyer a number OF questions as
70 the effect ;vhich the combination had had on