The Indianapolis journal. [volume] (Indianapolis [Ind.]) 1867-1904, 1888-05-09
HIS MEMORY WAS DEFECTIVE
Sullivan Does Not Try to Remember
Events Like Tally-Sheet Forgeries.
Unpleasant Questions Which the Conspirstors
Had to Face-Conyct Bernhamer Is Sub
dued, and Coy Poses as Martyr.

ance at the conspiracy trial Ia the federal court
yesterday, both morning and afternoon, by far
the largest OF any day yet The announcement
that the trio, Sullivan, Coy and Bernhamer.
would be on the stand at some time during the
day served to attract . good many. the seats be-
ing crowded nearly all the time and large num-
Der of persons standing mp around in the resr
part Of thereon. The spirited examination Of
Mr. Sullivan by the counsel for the prosecution
was resumed soon as she court was opened,
Mr.. Sullivan being on the stand for over two
hours and the examination being of the most
rigid and searching character. The witness
outdid by far any Of his prsdeo essors in con-
veuience of memory. for whenever . difficult
question was asked, in which al answer would
in any way irjure the dsfense the reply was
usually, 81 csnrot remember or ~ do not rec
ollect' these phrases appearing in his testimony
in way that would even discount Perkins him
self To s1ch "a extent did be resort to this
way of evading questions that the court and
jury were evidently at loss to know whether
Mr.. Sullivan he'd any recollection at all that
was worth anything. 1t was on par with his
testimony before the legislative committee
some time ago.
Mr.. Sullivan said: II was present when the
board organized, when the first controversy
srose-about Mr.. Coon's election as clerk. /
think; also when the trouble arose in First
ward. l think that the rule to count from tally.
sheets was not adopted until after the first con-
troversy. / do not remember its having been
made before. When it was adopted. il gave me
the five votes back that had been taken from me
by counting from poll-books."
did you ever testify to there having been
change back in this way in any trials bsforef'
said Judge Claypool.
II do not remember witness replied.
do you remember that the district attorney,
in his opening argument at the last trial, re-
ferred distinctly to this change having been
made. calling attention to the scratching and
correctionsl'
II do not remember having been present
when Mr.. Sellers spoke, and can't remember Of
ever hearing this point mentioned in argument
by any counsel"
Sullivan SO often answered. II cannot re-
member" that Judge Claypool remarked ssr-
casticalIy: ''You have good memory, haven't
you. Mr.. Sullivanl7
''Yes, some things" was the response.
81 thought so-well, give Us your best recol-
lections on all these points, that's what we
want"
Mr.. Sullivan. continuing. said that he hired
Mr.. SpsAn to represent him and spoke to him
about it that morning. 81 did not know" said
papers ffst came up. learned about it from
gentlemen standing there. l did not know that
IL gave Ayres sixteen more and Irwin sixteen
less votes l think there was an effort AZ the
time to have the sealed bag sent
was that wanted IL done. do
not remember whether Spaan advo-
Gated or opposed sending for sealed bags.
/ think, however. he was only reading the law
on the Question. l understood at the time that
Mr.. Elaxh was making an argument in favor OF
sending for the bags, ana that somebody in the
house made a motion for, or was calling for, the
bags. Mr. Spaan followed soon after, but /
don't remember what he said"
''You understood him to be answering Mr..
ElamP Judge Woods asked.
II could not say whether he was supporting
or arguing against Mr.. Elam.'
Don't you know that he was resisting the
motion 20 send for the sealed bagsl" said Judge
ClaypooL
~ do not know. and do not remember" Sui
Ivan continued, 'the character Of the contro-
versy about Hisey's vote only on the point that
1t gave Ayres few more votes and made Irwin
q few less. Span spoke on this controversy,
but do not remember what side he took"
rs your memory bad Mr.. Sullivan" asked
Mr.. Caypool.
mo SIR" replied Sullivan. II have a great
many things to look after, and don't allow
small matters to impress my mind"
How did you instruct your lnwyer when the
controversy came up about the first five votes"
said Mr.. Claypool.
III do not know returned the witness. 'I
conversed with him about 1t, but can't say
what said to him." Then in answer to other
questions Sullivan continued: "Mr. Schmidt
did not give me his papers on tho 4th a. he says.
He did not congratulate me as he sllegea / do
not remember having seen him until
when his papers were counted. did not know
Mr.. Schmidt at the time. He then detailed
very much as on direct examination his meeting
Schmidt the morning after the count was COM
pleted. and said: al heard Mr.. Schmidt say that
his papers were ont Of his hands. and that the
Republican clerk had them"
ssMr. Sullivan, don't you know Judge Clay
pool asked, that Mr.. Schmidt testified that his
papers were never out Of his hands after the
election except when he gave them to . friendl
ever been made IN any OF these trials97
II do not know it, Sullivan replied.
'Are you acquainted with Mr.. Schmidts char
acter for truthfulnesslD
know anything about him, replied Sullivan.
Had you any knowledge, information or be-
lief that Mr.. Schmidt's papers were in bad
condition at that timer
Il 0o0 no kucWleQk0 or impression ABOUT
those papers except what heard at the time"
did you make any attempt to have alleged
wrongs rightedp
II did not, because did not know there were
any. and had other business to look after.
never looked at any Of the changed tally papers;
never saw Schmidts. Counselman's, Hisey's or
any of them until they were brought into court. I"
"YQu never took occasion to look at those
papers. though your Office might have depended
on themr
ssNo, sir; Inever did"
Judge Claypool then presented the letter
which had been shown to Sullivan on the
previous day. and asked him If he now recog-
nized the hand writing. Witness said he did,
and that it was George W. Budds. This re-
ferred to . case in which 1t IL claimed that Mr..
Sullivan induced lady to have Geo. w. Budd
appointed a. guardian Of her mother so that he
tSullivanl could retain possession OF s. 900,
which was In the hands of the clerk that be-
louged to the ward Mr.. Sullivan acknowledged
that the letter discharging Mr. Meyers the at
torney who had fled petition to have Mr.
Harter appointed guardian, was written by
Budd, and that Budd had aftsrward been ap-
pointed guardian.
After introducing some moro Characterised
mony. George W. Budd, one of toe defendants
was called. He testified as he did in the former
trials, and In reference to the Schmidt incident
said: 81 did not see Lorsnz Schmidt until the
trial before Van Buren,. He never gave me his
election returns Twas not introduced to him and
never told him TO say that his papers had not
been out Of his hands. never IN my life spoke
to him. and never had any knowledge of any
ona irving IN commit any fraud y