New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1887-05-20
GoULD's TESTIMONY ENDED.
HE COMMISSION GOING TO BOSTON.

,r.ry. they Kept him waiting, but not long. From
Trinity Church chimes was sounding the call 10 .no
Ascension Day service, and 1t was to this music ma
Mr. Gould entered. Before the clock STRUCK eio'o'
ne was In the wltncss-chair An executive scs
was in progress when he arrived, put inc SCI s,a,
nj, arms promptly Informed the members of mr. "ou'u
coming and in a short time the doors 10 'lo nm
room were opened. There were Out 'e" ep w. 80
tb,s time: later a large crowd congrega'eo III "i
ante-room, and the bright piuh@so III 'N' ""
several young women was visible
Commissioner Anderson resumed the eAainiuauo'
nv taking ND a statement prepared from the union
pacific books showing the transfer Of bonds In CON
pectlon with the consolidation scheme lis oOJo
was evidently to show that the transfers hau ho' ~
fvmed 70 certain sections Of the consolidated 'or"
rares lie asked the witness to explain 0'i
,,,es hint Mr. Gould met every nterrogatOly WIN u,o
remark that he did not know "Ihab s"iu ~,
a Union Pacific Railroad Company ma"or'
exn,a,n IT, You are evidently mixed up In 'hlS oo'
nection but II you will take the consolidation "ooo",
yon will find that they balance with these" sun MI
.,o.soo nersistcd in asking his questions, but al
ro,,, sten was foled in his efforts to secure expiahd
,,or At last il was decided to send for MI. Caiei'
IN order that an Intelligent starting point might po
reached through his guidance Much time was 'hus
spept with no other than tine almost seIeo!Po
renlv OF the witness that the accounts OF the Jus
teos will balance with the mortgage account ITO
exn,ained an entry of g., 600 by saying he pro
sumcd IL represented amount paid him 1or inoIos
advanced. There an entry In the account VI ~"
bonds issued TO Maxwell Graves, for $'o,ooo' lIs'
land grant bonds. He said he presumed the pnucs
acted as brokers for the ST. Louis holders, and mat
the $4,000 represented the market value of inc Sc
,nrItIes first named He said that so far as he was
concerned he only kept track Of the bonds faf enough
70 see that the trustees did not issue the Ill oA'
of the amount Of the mortgage
At the suggestion Of Mr. Anderson MI 0oulu
wrote note to Mr. Calef asking him to bring to The
NAMES interested properly to explain the relative
hearings of the entries contained therein " inc ohoh
Pacific Railroad accounts. Mr.. Caef In due COURSE
of time arrived and NJ. Anderson Ieufed WIN MN W
another room In order 10 famliallZe mulseh n'oio
Thoroughly with the real situation. Thereupon Com
missioner Nttler announced that no had rev que'-
tions 10 nut TO the witness The first question was
with respect to the amount Of the Indebtedness Vi INC
Union Pacific Railroad Company ON Deccmper 49,
1879 To this Mr.. Gould replied that the toIaI III
debtedness of the company on that date was 100
472 3o1 10. made up of the first mortgage te "oN-
eminent lien the sinking fund bonds, the land grant
bonds and tho collateral trust bonds OF tho opaha
Bridge Company. The total outstanding lss Vi 'no
stock of the company at that time he gave as s'o
762 800, which was of course, In addition " "io
bonded debt named The Indebtedness OF inc h'uls@S
Pacific according to his figures was $50, ioI0l9 9u,
ropresented by the first mortgage bonds on INC uN
cast of the 39ith mile, the Government lien on lhas
road the Leave worth branch ROAD inc t"p se tb U
land grant bonds, the Denver Extension Donds, inc
income bonds the funding R9nas ana Pacsc bo said
was SO 500 35O the stock Of the Denver raelnG wa
s4,O00O0O. These were all the outstanding eVioeh'''
of Indebtedness at that date
OIL will ask you give the amount OF your holdings IN
yn0n TaG ,ss stock ieSI ani 81 Of the
bona ny hSdngs n ne Kansas asr ysne h would be
So and forget how many bonds ont tnA ABOUT
Did on the Missouri Pacific absolutely at this
noHow oSg had you in these corporations
Por to your resign19n n ana in the kansas Pacfc since
s nhnGn a nSSiIi is7 i' or ISIS. anu
The witness said the total amount of Kansas Pacific
consolidated bonds outstanding wasSlG,43o'OOo
o-Then you had at that time in your power to tIaRsr
the Kansas p s 10 oIepd The Kansas Pacific ogden
establish competing line NTH me mon racine '0 0So"
Estate numbers the aetna cost OF yo15 hold
s PS1 s Hnnss 5s9i o. ' Which
the stock and in certificates emitting Inc 70 eoH'0A"''u
NM litter remarked that his object see II the
RESPONDED that he did not any but he did not
make any by the consolidation for the securities were
Indebtedness Of the Union Pacific Railway Company
after the consolidation he gave as ed
q isve Of stock ana c c9 90e l'o-1 i'' u
Mr. Litter wanted 70 know me 0pec o. ~ no n
Pacific Railway Company The witness rePIe S nna
was a new child and they did not want 10 mix the names
The commissioner then turned his attention to the tel
erranh company Mr. Gould hesitated as IL he ala not
understand the purport OF the question, when Judge
Dillon interposed with the remark that ne cond zen an
about n the case had In litigation; the subject was
ot,v pvoved and he could explain probably better
than any es e e them 70 read
at considerable length with ncdehtal eN R
nrsedeI to The rights of the original overland lines
Mr. Little read from copy OF me ConUeSS2.ae 80
OF the XLXlXih Congress- showing the rapa crown pS G
The tel graphing business in favor OF the Union rac
Railway Company after the consolidation ana asK9u MI
fonld TO explaln The witness said the western Union
gave them share OF their earnings on their Whoe s9
tem extending all over tie United States "lich "ouu
TSen Mr. Litter switched off from the regular to an
irregular form OF examination, asking MI 1oul9 hIS
in regard to the Interstate Commerce law aud say
ing that he only punc;urng HIN for general ni0
oath Mr. Gould laughed and replied
We'll there good deal Of good in the act and probably
s sD%s Ss MeriSent wait year or two
before giving NY hnal opinion about Una" year passes
Al tbs i8ncture Mr. Calef entered the room with Mr.
Anderson and began long explanation OF the transfer
of securities in order that the record OF the Commission
might be complete on this point: Meanwe NJ T%I f
retained his seat and listened 10 Inc replies % MI
with apparent Indifference One o'clock haylhS arrived
the Commission adjourned unt = az
quesed TO return for rene wal OF ms To- what
Gould examined after recess ~ resaI1 20 t
appeared TO be preferential rate for the securities put
into the consolidation by the formers or he pool 10
each question MI Gould answered that ne couIu
r reist cond explan it lie could not explain
how certain discounts were allowed ana could
but said perhaps Mr. Calef could tell the Commission
Mr. Could could only say that that there had
been overissue of bonds. He knew nothing about
issned to Mr sage differing from MORTGAGE rates
This closed Mr. Goufs examination, but Judge Dllon
asked permission TO put. few questions WIN
The idea probably of putting Mr. Gould
rght ON tie record IN regard TO certain portions OF MS
tasiimonv He first cot off a question about half q col
nmn in length embracing several clauses Of the laws re-
0aling Pacific roads, and Mr.. Gould replied 10 the Des
81 mis- recollection In accordance with tnc leading OF MS
0uestioner. They all what lawyers would tern l
leading questions and transaction treated In UNI
way showed that Mr. Gould had bought from purely
phsnthropic motive and had sold from the same motive
M the price be gave for the properly;
Always alter he had sold the property turned
out to be valuable In regard TO his testimony as 70 t
Soutb PARK and the Utah Northern purchase President
Pattison suggested that he wished 10 impress the Com
mission with the idea that he had made loss MT
Gould answered quickly that he didn't expect to make
any loss great Immigration was going on ali th
time and towns spring ing up along the line .
To Judge Dillon he said that he had now nolnteres