St. Paul daily globe. [volume] (Saint Paul, Minn.) 1884-1896, 1887-05-18
THE PACIFIC INQUIRY. =.
a Well Known Broker and Jay
Gould en- the Witness Stand.

1CUiO ca INC W kCECSS Stslnu.
NEW YORK, May 11.-The continue.
ton of the investigation before the Pa:
cifc railway commission this morning,
found the well-knOwn broker sJohn"
Ponder on the stand. Ponder went
over the same old story of the Credit
MObilier, in which the names of jim
Fisk, Jay Gould, Cakes and Oliver
Ames, John b. Alley and others figured
prominently, and which has been made
Familiar to the public by the inyestiga-
ton of the old Wilson-Poland commit
tee. Ponder took occasion to vind:cata
Cakes Ames, saying that lie was an
honorable man and was killed by the in
famous stories told concerning him.
When asked if John Il. Alley was dead
the witness said he was as good as dead:
that he was poor. Ponder attempted to
show the connection of Mr. Blaine with
the Credit Mobilier. He said that when
Tom Scott was elected president of the
Union Pacific Scott told the witness
that he had eighty-two bonds which be-
lOnged 10 Mr.. Blaine which the Union
Pacific would have to pay. The stock
was shown to witness. 1t was not stock
of that company, but he did not know
what stock it was. hr. Ponder was
dismissed with request to furnish his
books for the use of the commission, and
left the chair to find the king of finances.
Jay Gould, whom he had been abusing
s0undly, sitting directly behind him.
He greeted him with familiarity, and
said he had left little for Mr.. Gould to
explain to the commission. Mr.. Gould
accepted his pat OH the back smilngiy. but
| said nothing, being absorbed in the con-
temptation of lot of figures lie held in
his hand.
JAY GOULD
was the next witness. He had resided
in New York since 1858. During the
past TWENTY-FIVE years he had been con-
nected railroads. His first connec-
ton with the Union Pacific WAS in 1873.
In the spring of that year he met I!or-
ace f. Clark in Chicago. He spoke so
highly of the property that he sent an
order to New York to buy at is and
| scale down. MIR. Clark was sick and
about to die and his stock was sold, my
orders catching it. The stock began TO
go down and l was anxious" cGEt!HlIed
the witness. Il asked Mr.. Alley what
was the matter with Union Pacific. 1t
went down to -. He said that it had an
immense floating Indebtedness ana $40
1000 due. / found that Sidney Dillon
and Oliver Anes could lie relied on
among the directors, and we went to
work to
FUND THIS FLOATING DEBT.
81 had 100000 shares il the stock at
that time. | became q member of the
board in 1874 and was member of the
executive committee. Sidney Dillon,
Oliver Ames and f. Gordon Dexter con-
tinued to hold Office as directors. As we
improved the property the stock went
up. went over the road twice year
while a director. | had 40 interest in
| nf I1n1nS q OF
Union Pacific. l think David Dudley
Field was one OF Mr.. Fisll's lawyers.
He has acted for me. | deny enphat-
ically that | had any connection
with the Union Pacific before 1873. |
never took any interest i'll the Kansas
Pacific until 1873, andnrecall nothing of
the proposed consolidation with the
Union Pacific as early as 1915. There
might have been something in the press
about it, but l am not responsible for
what floats about in the papers. re-
member nothing of consultation with
Col. Thomas Scott at the Continental
hotel in Philadelphia, concerning a pro-
posed consolidation of the roads in 1873.
nor do l remember of any action looking
to unity Of interest between the Kan
SaS Pacific and Colorado Central at that
time. The Colorado Central was a
purely mineral road at that time 1t had
connection with the Union Pacific at
Cheyenne" Mr.. Gould produced a
Union Pacific timetable, with Il map, to
explain the connection of the roads.
Don't you know, Mr.. Gould, that
there was
AN AGREEMENT
in 1875 for a union of the Kansas Pacific
and Colorado Central, whereby the
stock of the Kansas Pacific was to be
increased $40 000, 000?'
Nov that you recall it, there was, but
it was never contaminated. We were
trying to force pro rata with the Kan
sas Pacific, and this was one of the at
tempts. l think 1 must have seen Col
Scott in this connection, for the ST