The Indianapolis journal. [volume] (Indianapolis [Ind.]) 1867-1904, 1887-04-13
The Debate on the Crimes Act.

To the Western Associated Press
LoNIDN. April 12.-The House of Commons
resumed its sittlngs this afternoon. After
Speaker Peel had thanked the House for its in
dule snce during his illness, Attorney general
Hol mes reopened the debate OF the government
side in favor of the Irish crimes-ac amend
nIent bill. He cortended that the measure was
fair and reasonable one, and that none of its
provisions would interfere with constitutional or
public rights. The House should remember
Mr. Holm argued. that society in Ireland was
in state OF disorganizaton; that crime went
undetected, and that the people seemed to sym
pathize with the criminals and thwarted at
tempts to obtain evidence. In cases where the evil
dence was clear against prisoners, the iuries re-
fused TO convict, SO that the system of trial by
jury had absolutely broken down in Ireland. 1t
absurd to say that crime Ireland sho uld
90 unpunished rather than that such effec tual
means as the changing of venue should
be taken to secure the due administration of the
law. Mr.. Holmes hoped it would not be. neces-
sary, If the bill passed. to have frequent recourse
to change of venue. lDerisIve Parneltf, cheers.
Referring TO the question CT summary iurisdic-
tion. the Attorney general said this was not the
hrst time such provision had been made to deal
with offenses Under summary process the
resident magistrates in Ireland would be no
more executive officers than the Justices of the
peace IN England. while every po ssbe safeguard
would De taken to prevent the magistrates from
interfar lng unless the laws of the country were
set at defiance. AS to the provision enabling the
Nlceroy to suppress dangerous associations the
bill eft the exercise of the Viceroys power
der the veto of Parliamept. The government
adj ered to the proposal to make the bill perpet-
uaI. The misfortune in the enactment of the
past measures of the kind that they were
Lot made perpetual Parliament could. of
course, repeal the present law whenever neces-
sarv; hut SO long its power to sustain the law
n
1 The Right Hon. Hugh c. Chders said that
| although he supported the amendment to the
bill. he admitted that Some of the bills provis-
ions would not be Objectionable if they were
made part of general law for both Ireland and
| England; but those features of the proposed law
which the government especially intended to ap-
| ply to Ireland were unwarranted. and would be
| found to evoke disorder instead of remedying
| existing evils Why propose coercion when
| there was no increase of crime shown in Ireandg
| Before the last election at least ninety Con-
| servatlve members of Parliament declared
against any further coercion The MARQUIS of
Salisbury himself stated that it was imprac iica-
| bic and impossible 70 reimpose on Ireland any
/ measure like the former crimes act. The gov
| ernment would soon learn, should the Ilresent
bill become law, how disastrous was their re-
course to the old and bad system of repression
worse than ever now, when the repre- sen tatives
| of fvesixths of the Irish people opposed the
measure. Mr. Chllders protested strongly
against giving the proposed powers to the resi-
dent magistrate, who he knew t4e said would
be unfit, by reason of their lack of legal train
ing to properly exercise them, especially in cases
involving the application of the extreme pg ovis
ions of the Whiteboy acts and the legal con
struction of the word Conspiracy" The pro
posal to try Irish prisoners U, England was
amongst the worst features OF the bill. Wha
would have been said If ever it had been pro
posed to send Engishrnen to trial out of the
own country for crimes conr atted in it, Tn,
speaker ridiculed the loosene SIS of the definition
contained in the bill, ard warned the govern
ment that for this rease a alone a number of it
clauses would prove IN oneratve.
There were not fiff y members in the House O
Commons tonight The debate the crime
bill will go on for nally until Thursday, wbe
the House will iii op again. Mr.. Gladstone vii
revive interest n Parliament by speaking o
Friday The F.overnment is anxious to reae
the second re- ding of the crimes bill withou
resorting to osure, and will not insist upon
division beff re the 22d inst. Speaker Peel la
lntimated 10 Mr Gladstone that if the head O
the COVER nment demands closure alter a rea
sona5ie period of debate he will always deem
his du',y to acqulesce. and that this rule wi
apply to any government
N.r. Henry Matthews said that while the bl
m .eht not be based upon an abnormal amour
IF crime. he would still advise the opposition
refrain from pressing the argument of the con
parative scarcity of crime Ireland too ia
| The present bill, he declared, the milde
measure by all odds, that had been propose
for Ireland in the last seventeen years, and.