The Wheeling daily intelligencer. [volume] (Wheeling, W. Va.) 1865-1903, 1887-05-19
PUMPING JAY GOULD.
Ills KNOWLEDGE OF PACIFIC DEAL
The Wall Street Kings Little story-He !,
Angry When PRESSED Too Hard How
the big Pool was Worked.
Millions In Rallrond Deals,


Angry When Pressed Too Hard-IIow
the Big Pool was Worked.
| Millions In Rallrond DeaIs.
NEW YoRK, May lS.-The continuatio
oil the investigation before the Pacif
Railway Commission found the vel
known broker, John Pondir, In the atsnt
He went over the old story Of the Cred
Mobiier, in which the names Of Jim Fiul
Jay Gould, Oakes and Oliver Anes, job
B. Alley and others figured prominently
and which has been made familiar to Ii
public by the investigation OF the old Wi
son.Polsnd committee.
Jay Gould was tho next witness. II
has resided in New York since 1868. Du,
Ing the past twenty-five years he has bee,
connected with railroads. His frat con
nection with the Union Pacific was Il
1878. In the spring Of that year he me
Horace F. Clark in Chicsgo. He spok
80 highly Of the property that ho sent al
order to New York to buy at IS, and seal
down. "Mr. CLARK wan sick aud about I,
die, and his etock was sold, my order
catching 1t. The stock began TO 20 down
and | was anxious. | asked Mr.. Ale,
what WAS the matter with Union Pacific
1t went down to 10. He said tnat ii llst
an immense floating iEdeb.edaess and
10000, 600 in funds due. l found tha
Sidney Dillon and Oliver Amcs could bt
relied on among the directors, aud WI
went to work tu fluid this il,stine Jeb.
| had 100, 900 shares in tho stock ut tba
time. l became member Of the board
in 1876, and was member Of the execu
tive committee. Sidney Dillon, Oliver
Ames. aud L. Gordon Dexter continued
to hold Offices as directors. -Aq wa i'm
proved the property the stock went up
| deny emphsticauy that l had any con
nectton with the Union Pacific prior tt
1873.
THE KANSAS PACIFIC PROPERTY,
l never took any stock in the ksnsa:
Pacific until 1878, and recall nothing o.
the proposed consolidation with the Unior
Pacific as early as 1875. Remember moth.
ing OF consultation with Col. Thomas A.
Scott at the Continental Hotel in Phila
delphia concerning proposed consolida.
ton OF the roads in 1875, nor do remem
ber OF any action looking to q unity o
interests between the ksneas Pacific AMI
Colorado Central at that time"
Don't you know, Mr.. Gould, That there
was an agreement in 1875 for q union O.
the Kansas Pacific and Colorado Central
whereby the stock OF the Kansas Pacific
was to be increased to $50 600 OOO?"
Now that you recall it, there was; but
1t vas never consummated. We we're
trying to force u pro rata with the Kansas
Pacific, and this was one OF the attempts
l think | must have seen Colonel Scott il
this connection, for the st. Louis people
had great deal OF confidence in him.
increased my interests in Union Pacific
from 1873 to 1878. owned about 200 .OOC
shares in 1878. The entire issue wa:
So, 600 shares. l keep books Of nv trans
actione. My bookkeeper, | think, was
Mr.. Morosini. He began before 1878
Before that relied on brokers'"
The pool agreement of 1878 was showr
tho witness. He ss;d: 81 recall thai
there was such pool, though l must sa,
that had forgotten it. l signed for ovel
s.. .000.0 900 OF securities. | don't knoEr
what paid for the s., l43. 700 stamped in
come bonds. They sre entered ct 30
probably mora than l paid for them"
POOLING MATTERS.
Il presume that l conferred with the
persons whose names are signed with re
ference to the pooling agreement. pre-
autue that | would lavc the neuralgis
worse than ! have it now il should tel
you OF the questions that led 10 this pool
ing agreement. Tho only way | saw out
Of the difficulty was to take the mass O.
securities in cne man'a hand and iseut
consolidated mortgage bonds rs q prelim
inary step to place the property on its feet
before that oil Was confused, 1t being i'm
possible to tell what the securities repre-
sented. l don't know what lawyer drew
the agreement, or that l ever read it be
fore. l knew what the general idea oI il
was, and signed it. I agreed to accept
thirty ior my pool securities.
led Oft in fixing the price al
that Gum, though a crest many
thought 1t too low. | presume at that
rate | would receive considerably more
than ! paid for them. The unstamped
bond had better lien than the stamped
and the Yalus Of them was Fixed at 80
This agreement WAS got up to be about 0s
fair es, with our knowledge, We could
make. There we're Sl7,000,0OO to be
funded into a 1855 800. IL WAS soon dem.
onstrated that this pool agreement wonld
not carry, aud the consolidated mortgage
WAS determined on hetween April, 1875,
and May, 1879. Idon't remember whether
it Tag before the 81. Louis people were
brought out. l think that Judge Ureher
drew the mortgage. | hRd no correspond.
encs with him. Our arrangements were
all by word OF mouth. The o5jec. OF the
consolidated mortgage Taq 10 consolidate
the Heterogeneous naes Of securities into
one uniform eecnrity. | must have taken
q prominent part in the establishment OF
the rates for refunding. No provision was
made for the payment OF interpa. on ths
funding bonds to save about S5OO, 900 on
ixed charges aud make tue consolidated
mortgsgos as small Gs possible, go We Gu,
oil ourselves.
THE GREAT sCo0r.
"Aiter We had scooped in all the Hecnri.
ties aud the consolidated mortgage had
been executed, the stock was issued to
the holders Of the pool securities. wes
q respectable owner Of tifeae, MIR. Sage
took some Of the 81. Louis purchase.
don't know whether Mr. Dillon or Mr..
Ames took any or not. asked Commo.
Jore Garrison and others 10 take some.
but did not SUCCEED. The ST. Louis peo.
pie came Oh 10 EeT York and lnedo the
offer to me. | made q price, and ,old
them that they could throw in 90 much as
they pleased, but would rather have il
all. think paid l2j cents for it, /
owned $1,000 COO Of Denver and Kama,
Pacific securities in December, 1874. Al
tho time OF the consolidation owned 40 :.
300 shares Of Union Pacific worti,
93!, and y 900 sbhres Of Kapgns
Pacific, worth 9s. The hanBaB raci0t
properly waB an immensely valuable
pronerty intrInsically. Int had brnn ,,ory