The Hawaiian gazette., 1887-11-29

/ we DO not so agree. Inc Minister OF FOR
eign Affairs has stated the question from the
standpoint of those who believe that we are
now dealing with the innocent English pub
/ lie. If all believed this there could scarcely
! be two opinions in the house. | have come
/ to believe that this is the correct view. I'm
! less am convinced to the contrary | shall
I support the section as 1t stands. Theirs is no
! serious objection to the amendment offered
by the gentleman from Hamakua. Still it
does give US the appearance of doing justice
to our creditors grudoin9ly. Our Supreme
Court has decided that our agents have over
reached their authority, and | believe our
recourse, then, Is to our agents. If the inter-
probation put upon the law by our Supreme
Court will stand in the English courts, then
there will be no difficulty in our recovering
the 1900 pounds from them. BY all means
let us keep faith with the English public and
maintain the nations honor.
Noble Wilder said he was under cloud.
He had been accused of attempting to build
a railroad on the island of Hawaii. He was
in London five months, from Christmas Eve
of last year, and was within "a hours of sue
cess; and had not the dust been raised here,
about bonds, he would now be building his
railroad. The Hon. Noble asked every mem
Der to dissoclate from his mind every idea of
a personal nature relative to his enterprise.
Mr.. Armstrong had come here and made
fair square statement to the government of
what it would cost to get this loan III London.
The Loan Acts, as they read, state plainly D
per cent for expenses, per cent. commits
sion and . per cent. off. They certainly un-
derstood 1t differently. He was asked in
London about it, and explained to them that
the expense was simply to keep the books
square IN the finance Office, but was asked
In reply why the . per cent. was not put In.
Every loan in London is tloated on two
things, commissions and expenses. The
syndicate came forward and said: we will
float those bonds for per cent. or take them
ourselves. 1t Is a rule of the London Stock
Exchange that the syndicate floating loan is
not to take single bond themselves. The
syndicate did float the loan and twenty times
the required amount was subscribed. They
fulfilled their duties and were discharged.
So fer as be could see, the bonds were
foated honestly. The agents determined to
float 81 100000 at first; get the loan on the
stock board. and boom the bonds up to 10
then they would float the remainder and
clear enough to reduce the expenses of the
first 81, 100000. Had they been let alone they
would have done it. But they got telegram
to sell no more bonds.
He had called on Matheson GJ Co. at their
banking house. Found two old gentlemen
there, not Jews, but Christian men. who
opened the business of their establishment
every morning with prayer. The honorable
Noble remarked that he was no missionary,
except by marriage; he could not but respect
men who carry their religion with them into
their daily business.
Mr.. Armstrong acted fairly and squarely
and above board.
He believed the bonds should be forwar-
ded. If the agents have expended too much,
60 for the agents.
England never interferes between debtor
and creditor, This country is now not in the
position of a common debtor. We have
taken the money from the people, and iR we
decline to give them their bonds, England
will then certainly interfere.
Noble Smith said there we're three views
to be taken of the question, ] the legal,
the moral, expediency.
He did not consider our rights trampled
upon by anyone except our Financial Agents.
Some may say, what difference is it going to
make if we are stricken from the stock board
of the London Exchange. He thought it
would make a great difference. Capital is
very sensitive, and loss of credit in London
may mean loss of credit in San Francisco,
New York and even at home. He thought
that possibly the committee had expressed
themselves in their first report more strongly
than facts subsequently obtained seemed to
warrant.
The honorable Noble moved the sec
ton pass.
Minister Thurston said we may say that
the bonds are not according to the statute
May issue bonds according to the statute
and the subscribers might refuse to take
them and demand their money back. Are
we prepared to pay money back? No,
we are not. Spreckels got $780, 900 of it for
his bonds: 100000 had gone to the Water
Works, and other sums were all round the
country on roads and bridges, and how are
We going to pay it back. 1t behooves US
hpCI IN han 70 fIar-
can bite or not, and if we are not able to
bite, we had better not begin to bark. This
is simply question of what is for our best
business interests.
Persons find every day that it is not for
their business interests to maintain to the
letter their legal rights. Our delivery of
these bonds does not affect in the least our
claims upon our agents for that $4,000. If
we find we have legal right to 90 to the
agents, let US 60 for them for all the law is
worth.
Rep. G. Brown was not in favor of Rep.
amendment nor of the motion for
indefinite postponement. We have now to
deal with the English public who have paid
their money and which we have received, less
the el5,0O0. We have 10 give the people
their bonds and settle with the agents about
the e15,00U afterwards.
Minister Ashford asked: Shall we for e15,-
600 tarnish our credit for the present and
future? Not only will we destroy the credit |
Of the Government by withholding these
bonds. but we will ruin any private enter !
prises now on hand or to be started In future !
for the development of the country. On
this consideration alone, it is worth $4,000 !
to this country to have an established credit |
in London, the cheapest money market in
the world, uGce the borrower is known as a |
safe customer.
I'M
j, Inc motion to Indefinitely postpone
-iT .Tp secll"Tn was put and lost.
'.-,e ayes and noes were called on
Rep. Kinney's amendment, and re-
suited as follows:
For-Thurston, Ashford, Robinson,
Young, Jaeger, Waterhouse, Foster,
Wight, Motley, Bailey, Makee, G. n.
Wilcox, Bertelmann, Dole, Kalaukoa,
Kauhane, Paris, A. S. Will
cox, Nakaleka-20.
Against-G. Brown, Wilder, Dow
sett, ST., Castle, Luhiau, Wall, Town
send, Hitchcock, Baldwin, Richard
son, Campbell, Widemann, Hustace,
Dowsett, jr., Naone, Kauhi, C. Brown,
+. Brown, Deacon, Kamai, Mcguire,
Kamauoha, Nawahine, Daniels, Hele-