New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1887-08-27

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THE DEBATE IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS
LOST BY VOTE OF 272 TO 1914.
JoNDoy. Aug. 26.-'The Government issued to-
day a whip WI ich specially and earnestly requested
the ATTENDANCE OF al its supporters at the SESSION
of the House of Commons tonight to vote upon
Mr. Gladstone's motion regarding the proclama-
hon Of the National League.
The O'Gorman Mahon, Nationalist, the newly
elected member for Carlow County, entered the
House in the afternoon and took his seat. lie
was greeted with cheers by the Parnellitc members.
SIR George O. Trcvelyan resumed the debate
on Nr. ClsdstOnc's motion. He said that the late
Government did not ask the House Of Commons
10 pass their Irish Crimes bill on Ecasy, but
tlat they based their demands on Parliamentary
returns of grave Outrages. There had been COM
mittcd 7,7sS outragcs during tie previous year.
and twcnty-sX agrarian and political murders
during the FIST half of the year Sir George
eOntenlcd that the IOuSe should have tabuatcd
statistics Of crime in Ireland and that to mem
ten one crime here and another crime there was
not sufficient to Justify such action the Gov
eminent werc now taking against the whole
IIi.h people. lie denied that the general opera
tions of the Irish Nasional League increased crime
in ireland or led t. the general non. aymcnt OF
rent. The League existed everywhere in Ireland,
and everywhere agraIan crime was nfnit ST.
Ike tlaec made ty landlords in Great Britain,
they got their rents as easily as the English land
IOr0S. When the speaker went 10 Ireland a Chef
Secretary under tie late Government, il was with
pIcsoiution to wage war against crime and against
that only, and he maintained that policy on the
whole. Let the House understand he con-
tinucd. that if the proclamation of the League
is sanctioned, every lrislman belonging to tie
League who will not leave it al the command of
,hc Government VIII be liable T. b, punished
n common criminal. And that liability viii not
hcpcnd on any judicial proceeding worthy of the
namc, In combustion lie complained that the
statements made l,y Mr. Palfour CLic} Secretary
ior ireland. and only given cut last nicht left
no time for the examination of their chaIa ter
Mr. Bal our had presented series OF alleged facts
IN Justification Of the Governments action. Thcst
alj.catons the House should have a e. ancc TO
coiroboratc rcfUtc before con Ing to a dcOasion
STR. i. Webster, Attorney -OcneraL hed that
tie reason WAY there were not more convictions of
CRIME il Ireland WAS simply because Of terror OF
the League. lie emnAei the 10 Sc that Ear
Spencers Government had repeatedly proc aimed
Land League meetings and that Slr &. .. IlrNel-
van haS supported those prociA cations on the
ground, that the objects OF 4 e Land League were
10 put uowu landlCrisn and to effect . ScphIatlon
between Ireland ami England. The objects Ji the
eXi-tirg League, sad the speaker, were the same
lis AIMS had not been changed. Abundant cVl,
deace hai Treaty been atdnc-t a> 20 tie evil
workings of tie Leagre. The Government would
cow NV tie eXrerTcnt whether the -upPrts .lcn
sf League meetings wonl not lessen the iEtlmida
ZION. llI.si chetrN. T4ey Nete tod thiN would
Be the death struggle. Well, ei'her tie Lealue or
tl G Government would 60 down. Irish curc,luI
lie cid not tear for the rcsu {. The Covrrhm nj
Cpu!d be supported 10y the Consciousness that ,hey
r. Hsrrinc,on said that. rs one largely rcspou-
sble for he League, he desired 10 rrgy 10 he ca
umules that bad been lur ed al its Character lie
read letters from branches OF the League con-
d4mniug the HractlceS vii ca the H"rornneDt
declared tie League promoted The League Ispl-
d 4tcI every form of outrage. The ,ca "a" would
20 on doing what IL had done, in spite OF pTOco ma
toLs, which had 10 terror Tor tAe Irish people.
Mr.. MaeaItney declared that large majority Of
tke rcoplc heartily sick OF he LeaS les
p,.cy. lie sal that the proclamation wa n'ces-
i4rv because the League would never attain ITS
prinary objects by constitutionai means
WI liam hcd .rcUd accused he Orange Society OF
vor.. intimidation than was ever chargeI 10 tie
10 tufcr cert,in G cTcum~t,ncc,. he sal b.. bog
ccfriug VS. ju5 .iEable and necessary. Cheers
from the Ministerial benches
Lord HARRINGTON SAID he d.d not think tie speech
Of Nh Redmond would influence the House n
favor of the constitutional and lrglt m'te cIarac-
teg 90 the League. lie doubted whsther II Slr IT,
D. TirveIvau's views upOn tho Crimes Act h1d
been knOwn ~ Brideoton Ee would have g"t me
suppoIt of the IRISH electors lLaughteEI SIR
George did not dwell on tie object or tie tyranny
Of the LEAGUE. Or the ruin ana i0'S II caused LOr
hi he enter ipon the question whether Lord sails
bury and LaTi Spencer were Jnstl!e et IN t"e io'i-
cies i,.y ,Gop!el. TIE question for prs III de-
hen e., .1cce,.fnl should be 70 lowe by the pres
ent Government If tie tyranny OF tue League,
became more rampant and more orgtnlZ'd no"
As lar il, the action Of an association Was VINO "
UOit.ctl il cond not lie condemned, but II Tie dc-
tion of an association des trOye1 the liberty OF the
peop.e and subveIted order and good government,
ii did not matter wl at the supposed moives Ol thr
sssocist on were. 1t was enongh that - action
was hostile 70 social order. .ChreIs.I lhe mouse
had already decided that lntimidat on prevailed,
preventing. PERSONS from pursuing Their .awin 0c-
cupatiru-. il wa. not the duty OF the Government
III, Du,riia
by the Opposition, Ibe Crm"s Act was now
part # the law. Action was taken hv the Govern
mept as the executive. 1t was net necessary to
produce evidence in support of executive acts lie
eootrAdicie1 the reports that he BAL d'sagierd
with the Government upon the step pIop"'si' ne
believed hat tine Leagues aim was spoua lIoh anI
injusiice apd that it's methods were IN defiance OF
Co"tinping Lord Harrington saIa that re had
some Doubt "a to the course aiOpte :. lie should
have praferreG. # IL had been possible that TIE
Government resort III the first p~t&nce TO me pro,
visions Of the Grimes Act But with heir am and
OF irct he entirely aud earnestly sympaihlzed.
Tfey were justified by tie facts before them IN the
rom,se tbev had taken. He would oppose Mr.. Glad
stones resolution because 1t asked TIE mouse %
in,eri1re nsedlessiy and pretaaturoly with the
Coyernmenfs exercise of the authority which
Parliament had en- .rn-tet 10 tIen and intended
that they should Use. ond cheerT.I ,,.
Sir William Vernon Harcourt sad he Thought
dinsry one from such respon~''e states
man. kDo~ng that the step he was t"H.ns
was f4teful both for and and Tor Eng
land. Instead of aGvlsing the country .under
tines. grave clrcumstanccs LORD Harrington
oolv ende,yorcd 10 show that he had not been
consulted and therefore was not TesponSioIe ior
what had been done. lLaughteTl. II. bad been me
habit OF the lTnlonIsts 70 support the GOVerlmcht
waether they were consulted or NOT, buG
tonight he believed that the Unlonlsts wouId
be resolved into tleir Original atoms.
Some wonld vote for the Government aud some Tor
the resolution Such was the union OF the Unl"n-
ISIS daughter aud cheers Lord harrington
support of the Government was crrialniy n"J ol
the most cordial charac er HIS c0ncud~
ing argument was weak because thls
executive act wOuld have actually peHshed
unless IL had Parliaments approval lCheers.
The Government allowed verdict OF nor
guilty to be entered in several Clauses
Of the Indictment against the League, IOI
they did not dare 20 proclaim IL as