New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1886-04-06
RELIGION AND THE STATE.
MINISTER'S AND LAYMEN IN CONFERENCE.


was held evening in the paors of James McCreery
in the Madrid, at Seventhave.. aod Ffty-nntb-s 10
| consider the question: Ought the State to that
provision is made for popular instruction in the iunda-
mentas of religion p At previous conference tho
| following propositions tad been agreed to- but
oissened from by many after the conference held:
l. The Dermanence of the State is conditioned by IT.
morality.
| 2 1 he only guarantee of morality is religion.
| 3. Self-presery alton is the states first Law.
4 Therefore 1t il competent 10, and incumbent upon,
the State to that provision IL made for popular
| ligIous instruction.
The discussion last evening was based.upon these
| points.
| The following were among the clergymen present:
Julius H. Seeye, president Of Amherst College;
| George Dana Boardman of Philadelphia; Alfred You-
mans of Orange ~ j.. George Shipman Payson, G. ~.
Parkhurst Wendell Prime, of Tn. Observer"
Charles f. Deems, David Gregg Robert 5. Macarthur
| Charles ) Narrower David Stevenson, A. u. Ruff.
son, c. c. tiffany, David G. wyIe. C. 4. stoddard,
! George L. Shearer and +. Mason North. Among the
! avmen were General Clinton B. Fisk. who prcsided
s Hastings Grant, Robert Harris, w. Van Norden
John McWilams. James McCreery ana Isaac NJ
Dyckman.
| President Serye in opening the debate, SAID there
! never was a time when such interest was taken in
popular education both IN this country and in
Europe or when so much said against religious
control Of it, In the present century there had been
large and steady increase in insanity and this
peciay so where there the largest degree of edu
cation The institutions on which the prosperity Of
nations chiefly depended the family and property
and there bad never been such assaults upon these
| those lately led by of intellect. IN secuiarizng
! education the same mistake made that was mado
in the treatment of the religious views OF the Sepoys
by the British in India, which at fist the Government
did not interfere with. Unless can have come
thing more than instruction in science and letters.'
continued the speaker. we cannot save the Nation
! No nation was saved by ITS INTEL igence. Wo
must have virtue How gong to teach virtue
! By nculcatlng precepts of morality There such
| prece2ts that should be taught; but will that make
men yirtuous Socrates taught such precepts which
had no effect on the moral life of Athens. Ii Is not
! possible by moral teaching to make men moral. 1t
was not for want Of moral teaching that men were
found to take bbes in connection with the Broadway
Railroad This teaching of morality has never urlifted
society no matter how purely Taught in China there
| ia a system of very pure morality thoroughly taught
but wba is the outcome f" DR.. Secye quoted from s.
Well, Wlliamss Middle Kin dom commentary
upon the vcue,s of speech and conduct aad aversion
to truth Of the Chinese Final affection distinguished
tie Chinese he said but the worship Of ancestors was
| aIrlpiou IN China ana this religion accomplished
/ more than the moral precepts of COniucius Ethical
! teaching could not make people moral. The contro-
ling power in mems conduct was personal power and 1t
was Gods personal influence upon the viii OF III that
was so powerful for good where there was religion, in
struction. Any faith better than no faith TOR
people and he must come 10 TIE same conclusion that
! had been formulated by the meeting previously held.
There must he religious instruction. How should il DO
given 1t could not and would not be given suhc
! emily IN the family or 10 the church. Unless the
Church had the u5quy the power of the State it
could not be thorough. The State should give it
whence was the authority of the State There was
meme except in tie Divine will The state had It's a
thorly as the manifestation OF Gods WILL The STATE
should give religious instruction as it gave instruction
in letters the State 10 be preserved only by re-
liglon was it within its province to teach 1t No
wise government would permit its policy to he shaped
by the conscientious convictions of its subjects Tor to
do this would pat a stop to the government.
IN reply to these arguments, the Rev. d.. Crosby
said that no one would dispute that morality ust be
| founded religion. There were some points, how
ever in which he differed with Dr. Seelye. lie could
believe that the increase OF insanity 10 be at
trbuted to the increase secular education The in-
crease of Insanity with tie increase OF cVILa
ton necessarily Wtile civil cation benefited the
immensel " it brought fearful opportunities for The de-
sruction of the mind. lie took issue with Dr. SeeSe
in stating that there more danger to the family
and to property than ever before. In the middie
ages the lnrOads domestic lite much greater
and property hUdred-iod more insecure than IT Is
to-day in tbs city IN 81. Louis Property nor in
danger at all today" continued the ex-cha cellor
. This upri,ng OF the Knights of Labor is but tho
| reaction against the expressions OF capital. lhe
were Le sad here and there Herr Mosts and schTaDs
| in this country. They were mere handicL lhey
could all be put i'll tAat parlor The trouble was NOT
with the Socialists. he trouble was that corporations
DUNG the past twenty years bad treated men as
brutes and the American citizen could not ana No Ia
not stand and in resisting he went to abominable
lengths. there was Do.danger TO property OF 10 tho
family and no detrimen, resulting from s'euiaL eoqeA,
ton He agreed to the three PROPOSITIONS hat had
been adopted. but the conclusion was non-SeqWNe;
hat religious instruction was the state to iarnIshf
The Chinese the A. nostic the Jewish. the Roman
| Catho;cl Why not these How were they 10 take
the inst step in regard TO the religion TO be taught
between one fourth and one-hfth OF the people Of the
United states had no sympathy wh the ioIns OF re-
ligon represented at this 1eetng III the Stte must
furnish reg', it must also logically furnish the n
ausition. la doing this the foundation of Amer can
indepenc ence must be destroyodthe individual Sc
| peGdeuce aud mutual equality OF all. Was not Oet-
Ter that :he atheist should make his children atheists
than To break NJ the country and array men against
each other Ii the impracticLbIity OF the plan
| that most struck Dr. Crosby. The World would De
converted by the government hui DIV hi>tian IN
huence spreading from the family and from the hnch
lie believed at true re gion was the Gully guarantee
of morality but this could not be given by the Gov
crnment he reading OF the Scriptures III the public
schools travesty on religion. They should h'se
| no religion taught In the public Schools but let tho
| family and the church Il ach and disseminate n
The Rev. David Gregg said those who were q !a2ed
in this movement AZ II the movement tor placing tho
name of God in the Constitution were endeavOrng 10
teach men 10 believe in Him. When vast majority
OF the peolc up and belio9ing asked that tne
be i'll the Constitution then would be- PM micro
and he would have il done before. The object was
to get the true faith in the minds OF majority OF the
people that the majority might rule rghieouoly
Tir Rev Dr. C. [. riltanl said Amen 10 everything
that DR. Crosby had said. Thera were MANY thin I'M
| norfaut for the pres ryation OF the state
| witch State was not capable OK FUR
! POmpel was ofel" hc1Deo. ~
| nm eruption or Mount vesuvus. but that did not
| make it Incumbent on its government TO sup
| nress the eruptions of Mount NrsnyU-.
| Were not corrupt Aldermen brought
| up in the teneIs OF tue Roman Catholic
| ar Protestant churches That did not them.
| The teaching of tenets not enough Ho
was for rendering that which Caesars and
| To Cod that which - Gods.
The debate continued until late hour by the Rev.
| Messrs. Henry Baker, David Stevenson. George
= P,ysun. C. ii. Parkhurst and others aud the
ference without the question le
Is not whether another ou"rrnco VIII De held