The Indianapolis journal. [volume] (Indianapolis [Ind.]) 1867-1904, 1886-04-14
must be passed. They were indeed told
hat hacausa the alghtv-six Irish mem.

should Parliament De equally Douna 20 conceue
it9 If they accepted this doctrine, and Wales
and Scotland asked for separation, in what posi-
ton would England be2 What. under this sys-
tenn Of the voice of hostile majority holding
sway, becomes of the voice Of Ulster3 The
Premier had spoken of the foreign garb in which
the laws were placed before the Irish people as
being the whole basis of the mis-
! chief Would the Irish people have
been satisfied if this identical law
were placed before them in native dress TCries
of "No."l There was the fearful agrarian prob
lem which had hitherto bafled the efforts of all
statesmen. The real basis of the mischief was
that the views of a majority of the Irish people
on some of the chief principles of legislation
were different from those held in England and
Scotland-from those current in every civilized
country. [Parnellite cries of mo, no. The at
titude of the crisis on agrarian laws and ques-
tions OF contract held sacred in other
countries was hostile attitude. Never had a
"No rent manifesto found acceptance in
any other country in Europe lParnellite cries
of 1T was necessary That's just it" con-
tinued the speaker. '',I'he Irish party are con-
of Ireland which would make those laws differ
ent from those of every other civilized country"
[Cheers.l Mr. Goschen next contended that
there was no analogy between the position OF
Ireland and England ard that of Norway and
Sweden, or Austria ana Hungary Irish and
English interests, he said, were so interlaced
that when they came to the finance question
they would find it difficult to de-
Wu0Lu6E
was English or Irish. Their interests
could not be disassociated. It was now proposed
to admit portion of the Irish members to the
imperial Parliament; but could the Irish claim
that they should be here voting, on English and
Scotch Affairs, while the English Parliament
would have no control over Irish mattersl The
fact was, they could not treat Ireland differently
from England or Scotland and the only possible
conclusion was that If they gave national Par
lament to Ireland they must also grant the same
To England and Scotland TCheers
The speaker then argued that the presence of
an Irish contingent in Parliament would again
place English affairs at the mercy of the Irish
members; that new Dublin Parliament would
speedily reduce the qualification for Ireland of
the first order, making the basis probably judicial
rent; that the imperial Parliament did not know,
whether it would have any vote at all, and That
the bill. if passed. would effect an entire change
in the Irish executive, involving every institu-
ton of Ireland, judges, magistrates, and the
civil service change without parallel.
except that effected by the French revo,
luton, when even all the old criminal
laws were revised. Such revolution would not
be merely political, but would also be social
one. Even if the laws for Ireland were made
here the execution of those laws would be intrust-
ed to revolutionized executive Loud Opposi-
tion cheers Further England would be respor-
sible to foreign countries for the conduct of
Ireland. If the latter caused any breach of
neutrality or by neglect of municipal laws in
ficted damage on other countries, England
would not contribute penny toward the ex-
penses Of the war If an Alabama escaped
from Ireland, or an Irishman enlisted to succor
Roman Catholic country in war on the Con-
tinent, England would be responsible, while the
Irish executive over which the English would
have no control, would alone be to blame Con-
spirators, Nihilists and dynamiters might flock to
Dublin. [Cries of ''Oh." "Oh." and cheers It
dynamite allies from the other side of the At
lantic On behalf of the Irish loyalists, he pro-
tested against their abandonment. Countries
humiliated by defeat had seen portion of their
subjects, relying on their protection handed over
to the enemy, but for . nation In the plenitude
of power to hand over its loyal adherents was an
act never before recorded in the annals of
nations. A central political body in Dublin
would sap the foundations, of local
life. So he would sooner build up in
ireland system of government, through local
and municipal bodies, than establish central
body which must from the essence of its nature,
be political. In conclusion, he denied that firm
ness could be called coercion, and said there
would be no repression if there was no crime.
He could not foresee any outbreak of crime.
The United States had had difficulty twenty
years ago, and Europe had advised the North
that it could not manage the South. If the
United States had accepted that opinion there
would now be two American nations instead of one.
If we were to listen to the voice Of America
now, not q unanimous voice-because many
Americans thought it madness to concede homo
two nations instead of one The responsibility
for weakening those ties rested with the Premier
and his followers. Those resisting the breakup
of the empire must close up their ranks and,
shoulder to shoulder, resist the bill. Enthusi-
astic cheering.
Mr. Joseph Arch, Radical, said he had no fear
whatever of the consequences of the adoption of
the measure. If Parliament feared to do Justice
to Ireland it was unworthy of the confidence of
the country.
Sir Michael Hicks Beach said it was no light
matter that, at q time when other countries
were consolidating their forces and the English
colonies were seeking to draw closer to the
mother country, Parliament was trying to split
up the kingdom round which they clune. Did
the Parneites themselves regard the bill as a
settlement of the question:
Mr. William OBrien--Every man of them.
sThen," asked the speaker, why have not the
Mr.. Dillon-They have got up to say SO half
dozen times
"At any rate" said Sir Michael. members
speaking in behalf of Ireland intimate that the
bill requires much amendment"
Continuing, he said that even the Premier's
proposed safeguards and checks were evidences
of distrust of the measure as final settlement
These checks, when the Irish Parliament was in
full power, would be speedily disregarded and
got rid Of The bill would make the life of the
Loyalists in Ireland intolerable. It's general
effect would be to make England ridiculous in
the eyes of mankind, cr;ppling her power of con-
ferring the benefits of practical legislation upon
sister country.
Mr. Gladstone. amid cheers from the ministe-
rial benches and the Parnellites, rose to reply
He denied that the safeguards provided in the
bill were dictated by distrust of the Irish peoples
on the contrary, they were inserted in conse-
quence of the mistrust that was felt no doubt
honestly, by others. 1t was said that there had
been no formulated demand from Ireland, but
the government recognized the wisdom of WELD
log to reason what it would be better not TO have
to yield to necessity. He recapitulated the con-
dition he had in mind in forming opinions when
he laid down the principles of the pro-
| posed legislation, adding that he had no inten-
| ton to put the control OF the customs
| and excise and the absence of Irish members
| from the House as vital principles of the bill
| Since then it had been suggested that the Irish
| members might come with limited powers or