New-York tribune., 1886-03-11
PUGH'S REPLY TO EDMUNDS.
A LABoRED DEFENCE OF THE PRESIDENT.
LISTENERS DISAPPOINTED IN HIS ARGUMENT ON
THE SUPPRESSED PAPERS.

the Presidents right to suppress ohcial records the
galleries were AGAIN crowded, and many seats on the
floor occupied by members OF the House. There
general expectation that there would he some cross
firing and that Mr. Pugh would finish his speech in time
10 permit OF reply; but such did not prove TO be the
case. Mr. Pugh occupied two hours aud quarter
Before lad spoken thirty minutes the seats on the
floor vacated by such members OF the House rs
present at the beginning and ono half the Seuators
went into the cloak and committee rooms wLiio ho'e
who remained nearly all occupied In reading news
papers ana in writing letters Tho contrast between the
close and undivided attention given TO Mr. Edmunis
yesterday ana the reception given 70 Mr. Prgh to-day
even hy the Democratic mombers, was striking one;
hut not than the contrast IN the style OF delivery
and IL the merits of the tTO arguments MI PuGh Is
large man with powerful lungs ana an unpleasant tWahS
in his voice He spoke with vehomcnce at times raising
his voice to the highest pitch, swinging his arms and
swaying his body IL he we've attempting 10 make up
in manner what he lacked in argument Ills delivery
was the reverse the dlgnncd and dsnassonate way
il, which Mr. Elmunds spoke. He began by personal
alusons Mr.. Edmunds, who was absent at the time
aud who only laughed at them Ehen they were privately
repcaei to him after he came into the chamber.
Apparently apprcciatne the weakness Of any attcmpt
to answer the arguments OF the other siIe, Mr. Pugh
remarked the outset that he bad already expressed
his views fully the minority report o. the Judiciary
ronilnhtee This was borne out by his speech what
be said that was new chiefly made up OF quotations
from various documents. Ic read the Presidents
message. ana when he to the part where the Prcs
dent said that the Attorney General acted undor my
direction" Mr. fush strongly emphasized my and the
Other personal pronOuns used by the President. The
Republicans smiled and one of them heard to
remark my policy" When Mr. Pugh read an extract
from a speech made IT. the Senate In 1869 and said that
il was understood TO have been written by CherJustce
Chase Senator EImurds, for the first time Interrupted
and inquired whose speech it was from which the
extract was made Mr.. Pugh replied that it was from
doll ny u Island, "a
which thoro vas a utter all oror the ciaMl cr
Mr. Puch saw that lie had gone too far In attrbutine
the extract 10 ChicfJustice Chase and added that 1t
dt; matter who wrote it, Mr.. Edmunds would find
it hard to answer.
Mr. Wilson, OF iowa, was recognized at the conclusion
OF Mr.. PngI's Iomarks but way for other business.
lie Will continue the debate Tomorrow and will be
followed by Senator Kenna, OF West Virginia.
3r. Pugh began by saying that the main object he had
in alI rssuc the senate reply to the senator from
Vermont was to prevent Mr.. Elmunds from changing
the OF the question between the Senate and hc
President. lie then reviewed the Duskin case and
declared that the Senate Intended to make o. the
documents and pIpcIs sought from the Attorney
enable the Senate to exercise tho power OF revi5
ing the act OF removal OF Duskin by tine President What
it sought was not public documents, not Official dOCu-
ments not public or Official papers but private docu
ments and private papers relating exclusively to an
Official act tue President in the suspension of Dnskin
as Distuct-Attoin3y. The inquiry proposed by the
Senate he with kuowle lse o. the fact that
moro than four weeks before the resolution offered
to the term of Duskil mad expired II they
had decided hat the removal vas improper or unwIse
what would have been the effect OF the decision Could
it have restored Duskn It moot question merely
and the Senate turned into a moot court to
dscIss a purely lstract proposition. The Senate was
asked to pass "A resolution cOndemnng the Attorney
General for Obeyng tho President, whose adviser he
was and thereby making himself liable to instant dis
mssa from the Cabinet.
Pugh read from the Presidents message the state
ment that there hai been official papers dOcu-
meDts fled in his the Attorney Generals Department
Relating the within the period stated in the
luton. There" said Mr. Pugh is a statement by the
President of matter OF fact within his personal know
edge, aud the Senator from Vermont controvers the
truth OF that statement-havine foundation whatever
for tho DENIAL. Is there anything in tho history OF the
Government 70 support this claim fo the papers The
dstin .uishei Senator from Vermont las presented
long array OF what lie calls precedents 1 undertake
to say-and challenge denial upon the fullest test-tlat
there is the history OF the Government tor
eighty years where any such documents as those called
for in this resolution we're ever transmitted to the
Senate upon an Attorney General or the President.
ud1se all that the senator has 50 well said about Allen
the greatest and wsest and the pures American states
man now living Applause in the galleries. what has
relation to this power OF removal r. Mr.. Pueh read
from Mr. Ihurmans speeches % m IN the debate on the
ex eiusivey residing in the President alone.
Mr.. Pngh then inquired: What is the explanation Of
the opinions the Senator from VemOnt-W here shall
the foundation OF those opinions he found opinions
expressed in his very remarkable speech OF yesterday
The foundation Of that opinion Is that this lower of
removal is not vested III the President by the Consttu
tOu either pressy or by implication, but that 1t Is
legislative power vested alone in Congress and that the
President has no power either or removal or suspension
except such he derives from act Of Congress That
s th v G"nsfntion i'm tSaT vns be nrccIse Hsa
nadeby Mr. Clay ana Mr.. calhoun in the contest with
creature OF law and there is power to make tho law
except the two houses, then we can find the predicate
for the statement OF the Senator from Vermont that
e,her house OF Congress call for the papers Under
that view Of the COnstltuton-un that view Of the
justified in stating that either house by virtue OF the
power it possessed this matter OF removal has a
right to call for this information" Mr.. Pueh read from
speeches OF Nh Edmunds in the debate on the Tenur Of
s 1 o SHow wo sssaT act o I'm That debat"
Mr. Pugh continued there no doubt the beginning
Of this view entertained by tho Senator to-day have
no doubt that it Is the legal opinion OF that
distinguished lawyer Cir. Edmunis that under
removal can be vested in the House OF Representa-
tives alone. or the senate alone. or in the speaker
he vested IN the two houses jonythat 1t is pure
creatur OF law aud under the absolute control of Con
Mr. Pugh read from the speeches OF Mr.. Calhoun and
Mr. Clay to show that the views entertained by those
public men supported the OF Mr. Edmunds that re
mOva legislative function and under the control
OF Congress lie had Senator Walha read for him from
speech OF Senator Sprague in the Senate IN the debate
the Tenure OF Once bill careful statement of the
was knswn to have been written by Che Justice Chase
S5 on Of tine the senate the the involved din in the
discussion merely one OF assent or dissent. and
s5Hnst dE Of was 'ns n s n he
(Nr. Pugh) challenged reply to that paper Mr..
Pugh read from the report OF the minority the opinion
the Supreme Court delivered by Justice Miller in the
OF KibOurn AGAINST Thompson. There was he said.
in that opinion recognition OF the proposition that
coordinate department entrusted with special
powers called upon another coordinate branch for in
formation relation the exercise OF Jurisdiction
powers belonging exclusively to that other department
the duty CT the first 10 inform the other Of the
intended to be made of the Information sot might appear
to the department having 1t In possession whether IT
was duty to transmit the information in order TO
promote exercise of a constitutional function of the
Government That precisely the question involved
IN this ease.
Now" he ,oltinued. "let 1t be that this
q substantial executive power vested by tho COnstu
ton the President alone; let IT be that, ike tho
power Of appointment the Senate shares with the Pres
ident power REMOVAL let be true that the power
an