The Hawaiian gazette., 1886-08-31
Legs 1ATfvE ASSEMBLY.
Sc isIoN OF 1885.
Continned f,,om "a paqe.


would not complain of that. He mid say enough
now to satisfy himself aud he hoped also tue mem.
bers. The late Government in this matter had
been following precedent III what seemed to be
purely public requirement former Ministry,
on au occasion of exieency, or danger of public
distress, had not borrowed, but loaned the sun of
S2J0,00O out of the Treasury to a bank at per
cent. who reissued 1t to another party at II per
cent. Ihere Is no question AS TO Rep. DJle'5 posi-
ton, that the pc Yer of borrowing money was not
vested in the Ministers Al1ne. Whether it was &C
cording To law or not one thing but 1t was
necessary Ia some Uses for the Government to
secure temp ,rarv loins. During Temporary
deficiency IN the IRE isury to carry on im NJ !r l.
ton, ETC.. Messrs. w. q. Irwin d Co., the Guv
ernmeuts financial agents, had adv Inced money
to meet the req1irem sntS. While the rate for
peru Inent sans WAS fixed at five or SIX per cent,
these amounts neither important nor per-
manent lJaus. He could show frOm time t. time
where there had been a temporary accommo1-
alton. The Government had made temporary
loans frouI time to time according to its needs,
and had repaid them, sometimes with cash aud
sometimes by the tr insfer of lands. The business
of the Government i'll the IN itters of immigration
and public buildings tn ~ have b-en little over
dole. There had been a shortage, but 1t had
been met at a fixed rate of interest. Whatever
irregularity had existed there had been ample
precedent for but the Assembly bv their vote
might pat on record the legal standing of the
question. There W - no occ tslOl for auy speciti
censure either of this Ministry or the speaker i
late colleagues.
Hon. c. T. Bishop said there was an old aging
that two Rr pngS did not IKE Que rig 1t. h W -
rather surprised that the Minister should establish
a precedent i'll matter of d different nature,
which he had previously taken great pains to con-
denim. The action referred to WAS not of public
interest. The Munster had often made use or
that trans Iction in itic VI discussion. bnt only
to hold 1t up to cJuden nation. At one time there
was gre It financial strIugeucy, and tue Govern
meut h4d-xhat he would like I'd nJw-a
large surplus 10 the Treasury. But that did not
seem likely while His Exc die ICY wa Connected
with tbs Government. Tne u Ivernm-nt OF TN 1t
day had rec IgniZsd the striugency existing, aud
which was likely to lead t. great public distress.
Money then plentiful with tue Government
and taxes were 'ming ia. Such a strl lgetcI had
not occurred before aud had not hippsned Since
Good care taken to obt iin s1perabundant
security. aud most of the nUuey was returned to
the Treasury a ;ouo time before it WAS due.
r presentltive KInlukou-' Was tht assist
ance then rendered by the u ivernneut legal?
Hon. G. X. Bishop" No, it was not"
Represent tive K1ulukou-" Then, how does
the Hon. Jble acc unt for MS action Ill asserting
to that which not law ~
Hon. g. Z. Bishop" Bsc iuSe it was matter of
great public necessity and action was warranted"
Tue Minister of the Interior said 1t seemed AS If
Mr.. Bishop accused him of having censured that
transaction. lie hId approved of the action.
Circumst Inces reg Tired 1t, and 1t WAS necessity
at the time, and nis report, rs Charm IN of tn,
Finance Committee in 1881, SoIld 50 show.
Hon. Q. r. Bishop said, the occurrence has been
held ; time after ii Ne ii cenlare aud IS rehsc-
ton on himself and as excuse for any irregular
financial actions of the Government. The loan
that Mr.. Gregg made SIN Ill aud for
short 80 lson. No. this Government is reported to
be owing about $2O0,OOO.
The Minister of Interior "Mr. Gregg borrowed
100000 mt nine per cent" Hon. G. X. Bishop.
That 10 ay be but this present loan is not for Ia
Dor nor for any public works this simply borrow
ing money with ut limit AS to tune"
Representative fhurston said he considered the
IN Dflp nf IN tSt
before the Assembly during the session. aud would
establish tue right to borrow money and show
where the power existed whether IN the Cabinet or
in the Assembly. Ii the h Inss wiShe II preserve
its integrity it should absolutely coutrUl the
peudture of money aud the source wue.'ce 1t oIme.
If there WIS anything well recognized 10y laws 1t
was the right of the Legislature to authorize The
of money and control the expenditure
of This is shown III the closing sections OF the
Appropriation Bill and the several Loan Bills.
section the Appropriation Bill also diSallOws the
transfer of appropri alton tn another: that has
been done frequentlv illegally This question. Dot
of tho Ministry but of the right wrong practice
The Attorney General argued that the laws Ot
this Kingdom did MT prolibit the b proving OF
money. without legislative authority, by the Min
istry, in certain emergencies. Article 10 of the
Constitution placed il in the power of the -gsla
ture to regulate the disbursement of public fuld',
and prohibited the Ministry from taking IN Iney
out of the Ire lsury except IN ctse OF emergency.
But in Section Al of the Compiled LIws the MN
In Cabinet Council, WAS authorized to borrow
money to the amount of $4,000 for public works.
He did not consider that t'ere had been any
of the law. In fact he desired to
draw attention to there being no law OF pro-
1ihitory utture.
Representative Castle considered that the pro-
position adv lnced b. the Attorney General WAS
Incorrect There is no power that can properly
deal With the finances of the Crown except the
Legislature. Taking the statement of the AttOr-
ney-Cieneral that the Ministers are authorized to
Dv. wv $4,000. then he Is convicted out of HIS
1wu mouth, Rs the amount obtained exceeds three
Zines that amount. The principle involved re-
Zardiug borrowing Of the gre Itest imp tlnce,
and ohS which the House should ctrefully watch
snd qua d. ANY future borrowing will seem to be
,utlIned by the action of tue House to-day.
Represent alive K4ulukou again moved linden
1ite postpnne nent, aud ~ the hour Wa i2:o5, he
moved adjourn Deut until 100 .. IN. Carried, the
asst motion, and the Assembly rose.
AFTERNOON.
The Assembly convened at ne srly the time set 1t
icing LBS o oIDck whea tue Presidents RAvel fell
thu presence of quorum.
Representative D.ckey took tue hoJr and spoke
Il length Rgaint the measure saying Ia substance
hat he WAS astonished at che theory advanced by
he Attorney General that as there WAS no con-
,titutionAl clause absolutely forbidting tue MIN
stry from borrowing therefore they had the right
o borrow. The Government hid wasted large
lums in various ways and If ordinary &C Inomy
aad been used not the slightest necessity for
oan would have risen. Where Was ths necessity
Tor a Loan Bill If, the Cabinet. according I" the
theory, of the Attorney General, could borrow
MONEYS without any special laws?
After argument by Rep. sulukou. Kiuhane and
Dole the ayes and noes were taken on the question
The result being that the resolution was inoenni
IeIy postponed by the folio zing v'te:
Ayes-rhe Ministers ~, Kuinelaui, Mactarlane,
Hayselden. Keau. LiIikalani, Baker, Am tra. 4 an
liza, sulukou, Pahia. Ksunamano. NAhale, Nahi-
IN. Aholo, Kaukau, KAai, Palohan-2l.
Noes-Bishop. Wilder, Bush, Kaao, Martin, s.
Parker, Brown, Wright, Kauhane. Kaiui, Rich
arj~on, Castle, Dickey, Thurston, Paehaole' Dole
-l6.
OBJECTION was made to the Ministers voting on
the question as the 4tter to y great extent was
with and affected their actions but the
obisction WAS not sustained and the MINISTER'S
gladly av4ilei themselves of the opportunity To
vote 10 favor of the indefinite pOstponemsnt.