St. Paul daily globe. [volume] (Saint Paul, Minn.) 1884-1896, 1886-04-23
Gr. Gould Appears Before the Investiga
ton Committee and Gives His Side
of the Case.
The Railroad Magnate Denies That He
Ever Agreed to Arbitrate With the
Knights,
But Says That He Has Always Been
willing to Treat With the Men
Individually.
An Interesting Statement OF the Mat
ter From the Great Ftnancier--
His Views.
Gould On the Stand.

the southwest mad Mr.. could DelOTe IL lnlS
morning. The chairman stated that the
states interested We're Illinois, Missouri,
Kansas, Arkansas and Texas.
Mr. Gould-It is true that the missouri
Pacific runs through some of these states,
but at this time we have no difference with
our men and are not, strictly speaking, within
the rule of that resolution. But l will be
very glad to spend time in talking to the COM
mittee though / hardly think they want TO
spend their valuable time IN talking TO me.
On the 18th of April we had in the
TRANSFORMATION DEPARTMENT,
8,3O7; in the machinery department, 997; in
the engineer and fireman department, 1882;
in the car department SOB; in the road de-
partment 3,556; in the bridge department,
645 and at our terminal facilities 39S men,
total of 10, 737 men, not including our general
officers. The operations of our road, and
speak from thirty years experience, are car
ried on in perfectly regularly and orderly
way. The trains are all run and the business
we were chartered to do is being transacted
regularly.
Mr.. Burues-Please state your residence,
age and occupation.
The Witness-I reside in New York city,
am 49 years of age, am a president OF the
Missouri Pacific and have been since 1879.
Mr.. BurneS-We would like you now to in
form us if there has Geen any interruption to
the commerce passing over the lines of road
you represent in Missouri, Illinois, Kansas,
Arkansas and Texas, and if soswhat Interrupt
tion, and so far as you know the cause of that
interruption.
The Witness-Do you want me to state
simply what know of the facts that came to
my knowledge as president of the corpora
ton? because ought to state to the committee
that l left New York on the 5th of January
with my family on yacht for cruise in the
West Indies / returned to New York on the
23d of March. The strike occurred while l
was away and my knowledge of it comes
from such official information as L received
as president of the company since my return.
MIR. Burnes-We understand that recessar-
ily you will be compelled to give many things
from personal information. You will, of
course, in testifying, discriminate between
that which you know and that which you
have from official information. We would
like you to go over the whole ground and
give US not only what you know but what
you
HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE.
1.-THE first recognition proceeded the wit
ness, (which our company made, as far as 1
know, of the Knights of Labor, came out of
the strike in April of last year. l was away
at the time and until August. In August
Mr. Powderly came to New York with COM
mittee. That was the first had anything to
do with him. He stated their view, which
was that the part of the road that was in the
hands of receivers should reinstate large
number of men who were Knights of Labor
who had left the employ of the company and
whose places had been largely filled. The
impression seemed to be that / had practic-
cally controlled all the railroads in the United
States; that the sun did not rise nor the moon
set without some sanction of mine. 1 had
nothing to DO with the road and explained
that to them. While this interview was going
N my time came to leave. l turned to the
committee and said, Now, gentlemen, has the
Missouri Pacific lived up to her agreement
With you. want to know that. They said,
res, you have. Well, then, said /, want it
low understood that if you have any griev-
mce hereafter against the Missouri Pacific
you shall not strike, but you will come to me
nan fashion and we will talk it over and
settle it. They agreed to that and said good
bye and left had no further communica-
ion with them. l went off on yachting
cruise in January, relying on the good faith
f that arrangement being carried out. This
Jtrike came on while was away. The Texas
Pacific was in the hands of the United
States court and not under our control at all.
In the course of business the receivers dis
charged a man named Hall. do not know
who he is; l never heard of him, but that act
vas taken as the preteXt and the sole preteXt
for the
STRIKE ON OUR ROAD.
Our men told Mr.. Hoxie that they had no
grievance, they were ordered to strike and
that was the only thing they could do. When
the strike occurred, Mr.. Hopkins, our vice
president, who was present at the agreement
in August, naturally took it up with Mr.
Powderly. There was strike on our road
contrary to agreement, and he sent dispatch
to Mr.. Powderly just as cooly as q business
man would do.
The witness then read the dispatch sent
by Mr.. HoXie to Mr.. Powderly on the 9th
of March, in which he informs Powderly of
the strike, states that the men have no
grievance and expressing the wish to talk
the matter over with him. Two days after
wards Powderly telegraphed that he saw
from the public press that the strike was
caused by the discharge of Hall. and asking
If he could be reinStated. Hopkins replied
that Hall was employed by the Texas
Pacific and not by the Missouri Pacific and
that the latter road had no control over the
receivers.
ITO this message" continued the witness,
''no answer was vouchsafed. The Eastern
officers of the great railroads are their tinan-
cial repositories. They have nothing to do
with laber. Mr.. HoXie had control of that,
anyway, but the board, in order to make it
doubly distinct, put it in his hands, and he
managed it from that time on until after nv
return. Let me explain to the committee
what the strike was that took place in March,
and what the effect would have been if it had
been simply strike. We had at the date of
the strike 14,3l5 employees. The Knights of
Labor-the strikers-numbered 9, III. but they
were not the men who were necessary to the
operation of the road. They were the men
In the machine shops, the men
ALONG THE TRACK,
switchmen, who perform the lower duties of
the railroad, so that if these 3,7l7 men had
struck and left the premises We would not
have missed train. Our business would
have gone along as regularly as clockwork;
but following the leaving of our employment
what did they do?
AS he asked this question, for the first
time during the course of the statement,
Mr.. Gould raised his voice and showed
symptoms of excitement. and it was with
energy that he proceeded to answer his own
question:
'"rhey exercised more than the right of
eminent domain. They took st. Louis
Sedalia, Atchison, Kansas City, Parsons, Fort
Worth, Little Rock and Texarkana. They
took forcible possession of them and said mo
man shall run train over that road That
is what they said. What did Hoxie do? he
said: They have taken possession of our
road. We have got no earnings now,' and he
was forced to write an address to all the men,
Buspending payments, and these 10000 men
who were loyal to the company, who could
run our trains every day, were deprived of
their work, of their power to earn their wages.
That was what followed the strilze,th seizure.
you can call it by no other words forcble
seizure-something that the czar of Russia
would hesitate to do with his millions of
soldiers behind him.
Mr.. HoXie's address to the men was then
read by General Swayne and as he was
reading it Mr.. Powderly entered the room
and secured a position opposite Mr. Gould.
The Chairman-What was Mr.. Hall charged
with? What crime had he committed? What
was the reason he was discharged?
In response to these questions Mr..
Swayne at the request of Mr.. Gould read
the statement issued by Receiver Brown
declaring that Hall was an incompetent
man, and that he was discharged for