The Indianapolis journal. [volume] (Indianapolis [Ind.]) 1867-1904, 1886-06-08


But Mr. Beach declares. though do not see that
1t has much to do with the matter, that this is
the bill of one man. Well, ! am amazed TO hear
my opponents speak as il they had been at my
elbow all day all throughout the winter
MIR. Chamberlain could only speak
edge, and If he said 1t was bill Of
one man he would know no more about it than
opposite. But. sir, long before that
time the leading details of the bill had been
matter OF anxious consideration between me and
my nearest political friends. The noble lords
arithmetic is still more defective. A party of
335 is, | apprehend, by eighty-ive votes. larger
than party of $50 Then, the right honorable
gentleman says that excepting one point, the
customs and excise duties. no change was made
in the bill after it was first submitted 30 the
Cabinet. He has no means OF knowing that If
Il were true and it happens to be entirely un-
true This is a matter of great importance,
though it is one that has never been by
Mr. Chamberlain. He took exception to
certain provisions of the bill without being
acquainted with the whole case That is o fact
Mr. Beach Is entirely wrong, also in one of his
simple facts. Then Mr. Beach says that an
nounced to the House that the bill was NOT TO be
reconstructed. said nothing of the kind.
announced that I had not promised that
st should be reconstructed. and there are
gentlemen opposite who think it matter
of laughter. who see no distinction between
promising that the bill shall not be reconstructed
and not having promised that it shall be recon
Structeu. A person VINO mas promised that q
bill shall be reconstructed is bound to recon
struct: and is that truel A person who has not
promised is free to reconstruct it without
promising. am glad to see that the laughter
OF the opposition has now ceased
Well sir. cannot help observing that was
struck with an observation of Mr.. Beach. He
says the bill will be rejected whatever else hap
pens. by the votes of a majority of the English
and Scotch members, and in that observation he
was cheered by those who teach US that they are,
above all, anxious for the maintenance of the
United Kingdoms Parliament. in which
Irish members are, in all respects. to be
assimilated TO the English and Scotch members.
Well Sir Michael talks about dissolution and
glad to find that upon that point he and
are more nearly associated than upon almost
any other point OF this controversy. After what
Mr. Beach has said. and the acquaintance he has
shown with the history of the BILL and after all
that was said by Mr.. Goschen, must again re.
fer to the exact position in which some of
she members stand with regard to the BILL
In the first place, take 1t to be absolutely be-
yond dispute, upon broad, high parliamentary
grounds, that that which is to be voted upon to-
night is the principle of the bill as distinct from
the particulars of the bill. What may be the
principle of the bill grant that have au-
thOrity to determine. but it is our duty to give
construction of the principle of
the bill. / think drew confirmation of con-
struction from the speech of Mr.. Beach, be-
eause he himself said this was bill for the pur
sose OF establishing legislative body in Ire
and for the management of Irish affairs. l
spprehend it to be beyond all question that
20 members voting for the principle of
sse bill are entirely and absolutely
.fee and that if they think there is
any set of provisions by means Of which
better and fuller effect may be given to the
principles of the BILL they at liberty to dis
place all the details. That does rot admit Of
doubt Well, the government have taken GER
Tain engagements. They have taken an engage
ment as to taxation for the inter-
vention of the Irish, to the terms of
which need not now refer. One more question
has been raised with respect to other
Freedom of members to suggest other amend
znents say nothing. but in reference to
duty there can be no question at all, that
duty, if an interval is granted US, if the crcum-
stances of the present session require the with
drawal of the bill, if it is to DO re-
introduced with amendments at early date
In the autumn, of course 1t is duty
to amend our bill with every real amendment,
every real improvement, and vita whatever is
calculated to make it more effective and accepta-
ble For the attainment of its end we per-
feetly free to deal with them but it would be the
meanest, basest act on the part of the govern
ment to pretend that they have plan of recon
Bsruction ready beforehand Gu. and dried in their
minds at time when, from the very nature of
the cause. it must be obvious that it is perfectly
clear there can be no such thing Sir, so much,
fhen, for the system and freedom of the mem
bers opposite to the bill It is the duty of the
government to consider their amendment, do
everything they can with view to a fuller and
better application of the bill, and to add
70 those grounds which have, on former occa
sion, been so clearly explained, aud from which
there Is no intention, in any sense, to recede.
Mr.. Beach has said that the question of Ulster is
question OF principle, but must say that, with
regard to the sentiments have heard ex-
pressed on the subject 1 cannot say that any
plan for the treatment of Ulster has had any
serious or practical effect upon Major Saunder
son, who is supposed to favor the separation of
Tl-&@ g.. ~ e
MIR. Parnell has entered into careful and
elaborate argument upon the subject of Ulster
and dealing with her as separate part OF Ire
land in the course of this evenings debate. and
must say that that was @ statement which re-
quires an answer
Now. SIR want to say word on the sub
-ct OF Irish loyalty. And in debates of this kind
have, at times to use words and expressions
AT 1t is well should be little better understood
they are. When hear speech from Mr.
hnston and some others, il always appears to
that he is under the conviction that loyalty
- innate in Irish politicians, and dsloyaty innate
10 some other persons. Laughter. l do believe
that Mr.. Johnston is under the impression that
In all times, in long generations of Irish history,
there mas been this difference between persons
who are Professionals and those who are not Prot
estants. NoY Well, it is a charge which has been
made. and ought to be met. Has Mr.. Johnston
inquired what the state of loyalty
In Ireland at the close Of the Eighteenth century9
As regards Roman Catholics. they had then
Eoeu uoru INTO poitlcdl Mo. III MS titn0
Dean Swift spoke of their incapacity for politics.
and it would be absurd to speak of them as being
either loyal dsloya. But as to the condition
OF Catholics at the close of the last century, /
viii read what Burke has said upon the subject.
The date of it is 1876. 1t is taken from letter
TO Wyndham. He speaks on the subject of dis
affection, and writes thus: 'Disaffection has cast
deep roots in the principles and habits Of the ma
5ority of the lower and middle classes
of the whole Protestant part of Ire
land. The Catholics who are intermingIed
with them are more or less, tainted What has
happened sincea The Protestants, not having
grievances to complain of. became loyal These
are words and ideas which show us what is the
way in which We are to promote loyalty, and
what is the way in which we can destroy it.
Another subject, upon which, will only dwell
for moment. is that of federation Many gen