The Indianapolis journal., 1886-04-23

| had held out" The witness, after remarklng
| that the business Of the Missouri Pacific had
| now been fully resumed, said that for that rea-
| son it did not seem to him that the resolution
under which the investigation is proceeding ap-
| piled to the Missouri Pacific.
In answer to Mr. Burnes, Mr.. Gould said that
| his telegram to Mr.. Hoxie referring to arbitra-
| tion was not even advisory in its nature, he
| meant to leave the entire matter in Mr.. Hoxie's
hands, and hold him responsible for the result
| He remarked that employees Of railroad COM
4 pany were not like those OF manufacturing
| companies or those engaged in any other bust
ness. He had always claimed that every en-
ploye, from the president down. clothed him
self with certain public duties. and it was his
duty to do his part toward operating the road
He MIR. Gouldl found that he had enough to do
to manage the Missouri Pacific railroad, but
his FREUD there (Mr. Powderly) undertook
great deal more; he attempted to regu-
late all the railroads, all the shoe
makers, all the bakers; every trade. That
was .oo broad-shouldered, and he did not won
der that his friend had broken down under it.
As to arbitration, he believed that voluntary
| arbitration would be better, more sought for
than compulsory arbitration.
Mr.. Burnes remarked that the voluntary con-
ference between the witness and Mr.. Powderly
had not resulted in an arbitration, or at least
that the witnesss views did not seem TO have
been executed in st. Louis. The witness replied
that on the contrary the company was always
| ready for arbitration. The point was that they
refused TO recognize the Knights oil Labor.
There were 5000 men employed on the Missouri
Pacific who did not belong to that order.
Mr.. Burnes asked if the witness knew of the
issue of the order of the roadmaster forbiddlng
the employment of knights of Labor. Was that
not a recognition of the order. he asked, and it
SO, why not recognize them for purposes of arbi-
tration2
Mr. Gould replied that it was a matter of pre-
| caution, and. with those threatening proclama-
tions out, be did not wonder that Mr.. Hoxie had
taken the precautionary was his duty.
MIR. Burnes did not think the answer was re-
sponsive, but would not press the question.
At this point a recess was taken.
The committee took recess for a quarter of
an hour and reassembled at 3 P M when the ex-
animation of Mr. Gould was resumed.
He was inquired Of by Mr. Grain as to the
ways Of construction companies in issuing stock
to themselves out OF proportion to the work
done, but Mr.. Gould denied any knowledge of
such dark and questionable transactions. He
was asked his opinion as to the cause of strikes,
and the only reason that occurred to him was
the desire of some of the leaders to gain noto-
riety in consequence He had never heard of
and did not believe in such causes Of complaint
| as Mr.. Powdery alluded to in the first days tes-
timony-such as the cheating of employees in the
! matter of hospital taxation, hornesteads. and
stores belonging to superintendent and fore
men. Such statements were ridiculous, and he
felt positive that there were instances
Of the kind He was inquired of by
Mr. Outhwaite as to stock speculations
knew of nothing of the kind. and that far
he was himself concerned, he had not made
transaction in stocks, either long short, since
the LIST OF January, and had no speculative in
terest in the market. He was sure that none Of
the directors OF the Missouri Pacific had any
dealings in the stock of the road on the days
following his interview with Powderly.
Mr.. Observation-Disclosures would the public
interest or the interests of the company have
suffered by the representatives of the company
q a
Laborf
Mr.. Gould-To arbitrate whatl That was the
question.
Mr.; outhwaite-zYou certainly know what
Mr.. Could do not know that we differed at
ALL read my proposition over to Mr.. Pow
derly, and he said he agreed to every word of it.
Mr. Outhwate-I have referenceto the diff
Guilty which seemed to arise-if it did not arise
on that Monday. First, the men were ordered
to resume work, and were about to do so, and
then the next information the country got was
that the men had not resumed work, and that
the trouble seill existing.
Mr. Gould-They did not pay anysattention to
the order. On the contrary, Martin Irons tele-
graphed to them "to hold the fort" They did
not obey the ORDER, and did not propose to. l
did not understand that there was any agree
ment made with Powdery. There not
when he left my house, did not know what he
was going to do. After he went out had dis
cussion with Mr.. Hopkins. who remained. as to
what Powderly would do. and said he would do
nothing: that he had not the courage. What ne
had said he would do was to issue an order
declaring that the strike without
cause; that the men were in rebellion, and tax
ing away their charter 1t was on that state
ment that gave him a copy of my dispatch to
Hoxie. Next morning when it came out in the
papers, from him that there was an entirely
different thing done, it. was of that l complain
because did not agree to it in that shape and
would not have agreed to it in that shape.
NJ h,.fh De- wl,a<s sxx.. o,,l1 Aux~A
come to the company if it had accepted and
acted upon Mr.. Powderly's view of the caseY
Mr.. Could do'not know what subject their
arbitration would cover. If it covered the ques
tion whether we should discharge men whom we
had employed after the strike, we would not adj
NIT that to be a subject of arbitration.
Mr.. Outhwaite-Then you did not intend or
want to have any arbitration or effort to settle
anv difficulties with Knights of Labor who had
struck, or were out of your employ yment at the
time Was that. the understanding?
Mr.. Gould-That is it. distinctly.
Mr.. Burnes inquired as to the relations of the
Missouri Pacific with the other railroads now in
corporated in the system--as to the amount of
stock and bonds issued, and to other matters
connected with the company, which information
Mr.. Gould promised to furnish hereafter
Mr.. Burnes also inquired as to the general
effectof the pooling system, and Mr. Gould re-
piled that its general effect was beneficial TO the
public. because, without it. most, if not all, the
railroads of the country would be in the hands of
receivers
Mr. Burnes-Why would that be- the results
Mr. Gould-Because Of low rates from excess
i've composition.
Mr. Burnes-Then competition is not the life
of trade?
Mr. Gould-No. sir, and the result would be
that wages would have to be cut down so per
cent. Labor is a very large element in railroad
expenses Directly, it amounts to about 60 per
cent, to say nothing of the labor in steel rails
and other railroad materials
Mr.. Burnes-If pooling is beneficial to the rail
road companies is it also beneficial to the people}
Mr. Could think it is. The public is inter
ested in having strong. able roads, well equipped
have always found that real estate sells higher,
and the people would rather live ON the lines Of
railroads that are financially strong.
Mr.. Burnes inquired as to the general proper
tions between local earnings and through earn
ines of railroads. but Mr.. Gould declared him