St. Paul daily globe. [volume] (Saint Paul, Minn.) 1884-1896, 1886-02-09
Senators Pugh, Salisbury and other
Democrats Make n Creditable
Defense.
Representative Weaver Mentions
Four Things This Congress
Must Do.
The President,s Preroxative.


any department and ask for papers affecting |
that department. affecting legislative bust
ness. IL 20 there armed with the power of
the senate, as the secretary OF the treasury,
or any department OF the govern
ment. or as the president of the
United States. That has always, from
the foundation OF the government, been the
established law. Any information that may
effect the judgment or conduct of a senator
or any subject OF public duty is information
that the president is bound TO communicate.
There ought to be no secrets whatever in
this government of ours. IL is a government
OF the people. There is no rule or provision
for keeping secrets. We have no right 10 say
to another department OF the government,
For what reason did you do thisY' The
president has no right 10 come to MS and say,
''Why did you pass this lawf" He has no
right TO cross-examine us. The departments
are separate and distinct: But ali the in
formation contained In the files OF any. de-
partment is just as much the property of a
senator as Of anybody else. There is no Sc
cret In this government that can be protected
from legislative supervision
DIFFERENCE OF OPINION
Mr.. Salisbury Il differ from the senator in
regard 10 this. II we have nomination 70
act on we can call for information as TO the
nominees. but when we 90 behind that and
ask for information as 10 a suspended officer
the entire discretion is vested in the preSi-
dent. ] wOuld like to ask the senator as a
country. from the supreme court down, that
can control the discretion of a trustee, how
ever humble a trustee he may be?
Mr.. Sherman-Is that not an evasion OF the
whole CONTROVERSY We do not claim TO ex-
ercise any power whatever over the discre-
ton of the president. We admit even that
we do not ask for his reasons. but We have
the power TO control our own discretion and
we have the right TO all the information that
we can get from the executive department to
enlighten Us. Nobody proposed TO control
the exercise of the presidents
discretion, nobody. He is as indie
pendent as we are. but be
must not control our discretion. He
must not prevent rs from having the same
sources of information that he has. He
makes the nomination. Why did he make
that nomination.? Was the old incumbent an
unfit man, a corrupt man. thief de-
faulter. or the like. Our discretion must be
enlightened by all the information that the
president has. l say. therefore. that we
have the right TO call for the information.
At the same time We should be To the presi-
dent always courteous. and If he should give
any reason for Withholding paper, for ex-
ample, because IL was marked "confiden-
tial, should not object 10 that II there is
a paper not meant for the public eye. and he
should propose 10 withhold that
NATTER OF CoSFIDEScE,
] would say that was probably case for the
exercise Of discretion. II he should say: 81
don't care to talk about that; that came 10
me In confidence" that is one thing. But
when he says that papers upon which he acts
/ containing charges made boldly and openly
controlled his reason. controlled his conduct,
/ in making an appointment, papers on the
public file, he has no right to withhold
these papers merely because they came
/ to him about an executive matter. He ought
TO give them to us unless they
are in the nature OF secret confidential
papers. coming to him in private, but they
ought not 10 be filed, They ought not to be
| there to poison the fame of man or to af-
| feet his family in future. II they are not 10
be seen by US, as they ought, and possibly 10
be seen bv him, they ought TO be put in the
| waste basket without action. That Is what l
always do with anonymous papers that come
| TO me.
Mr. Pugh-The call that you make upon the
! president or upon any officer OF the cabinet
| is for public documents You do not claim
! that the senate can call upon him for any
other than public documents or public rec
| ords. The character of these documents or
public records determines the right of the
senate 10 their possession; the character OF
! these public documents decides whether the
senate has the right TO call for them. The use
that the senate intends TO make OF them de
termines the right TO make the call.
Who is to be the judge of these documents as
10 whether they are public or privateg Who
is TO be the judge Of whether this informa-
ton or paper in the possession OF the presi-
dent or member of his cabinet should be sent
to the senator Who Is 10 be the judge OF
whether the senate has the right TO call fOI
them? Some one must have the
POWER TO DETERMINE
that question: There can be no improperly
in placing on the president the power TO de
termine what the character OF the document
is, and see whether the senate has the power
TO call for them.
Mr.. sherman-where did the senator from
Alabama (Mr. Pugh) discover that new
tangled ideag Where are the precedents that
enable him TO say that the head of a depart
ment shall say what papers shall be given 20
the legislative department-thRt he shall
say what papers from the files Of q
department shall be given tC
the legislative Department. When, in all the
hundred years of this countrys history was
such a doctrine presented beforel The
senator from Alabama Mr.. Pugh) was Q
| member of the house many years ago. He
will remember that time and time again W,
Investigated the administration of Franklin
Pierce and james Buchanan. We called be
fore US all the papers secured in public in
regard to that administration, and they were
never denied us by tho last two Democratic
presidents. They never commended that they
could withhold one paper and give another
On the contrary, in compliance TO law the sec
rotary of the navy sent 10 the house OF repre-
sentatives a private letter or James Blu
, chanan, which entered into the public rec
Tue idea OF a distinction between papers pub
lie and private never occurred unit
during the present administration. Why
Mr.. President, the law is plain ant
. mandatory. 1 happened to hold the
Office OF secretary OF the treasury at ont
time. and was brought before both house
I OF congress-the senate and house Of repre-
sentafiVes-when they called on me fol
! papers in a certain controverted case. and
! will not refer TO 1t at any length, because 4
= 81.
called on me for the papers, but they calle'
on me TO come in person 10 explain the paper
| and to give reasons
WHY AND WHEREFORE.
e never conceived that / mad q right, as a
s executive officer, 10 put myself on my dignit
and say: 81 will show you such papers q
z will do me no harm, and viii keep back tn
: Others" They say was reckless sometime:
but never was so reckless as that. VIVA
right has the president 10 say for what pui
d pose we shall use paperss IL We have ID
e right to use these papers a. all, W
a have the right to use them for all they az
wo;th. Is the president 10 have the right I
? say: "You shall use those papers for on
I purpose and not for anotherg" There is 4
such distinction. II the papers are on pul
II lie file, we have the right to see them. The
q may be material or useful
MIR. PuEh-Does the senator claim for II
body the right to review the action OF "a
president irsmaking removals.
Mr.. Shermen-lt Is not necessary 70
y into that, but say so without question. b
a cause IL is the law and believe the law Wa
5 constitutional when IL was passed.
D. Mr. Harrfs-Does the senator from Oh
70 claim that he has right to review Il
" grounds on which the president has made
= suspension in vacation which the law leav
u wholly and exclusively TO the discretion
/ the president?
s. Mr.. Sherrnan-1t Is not question of VIII
II we have a right TO review. but what inform
IA ton we have q right TO get from the exec