Savannah morning news. [volume] (Savannah) 1868-1887, 1886-02-09
CALLS FOR INFORMATION.
SHERMAN PRECIPITATES A DE-
BATE IN THE SENATE.


Ball ROlling-Mr. Pugh Gets the Best
of the Gentleman from ohiO-Public
and Confidential Papers.
WASHINGTON, Feb. s.-A lively debate
ensued in the Senate to-day on the Obliga-
tion of the President and Cabinet officers
to reply to any queries touching public
affairs which the Senate might make.
The Senate was discussing the refusal
OF the sub-Treasurer at New Orleans to
receive silver bullion ON deposit.
Mr.. Sherman had made statement
that any Citizen had a right to go to sub
Treasury with his silver dollars and re-
ceive certificates for them. and that it
was not right for the government to re-
fuse to give that accommodation.
Mr.. Morrill, asked, jocularly: Scan he
ask for their reasons il they refuseV
This was greeted with laughter, but Mr..
Sherman Immediately precipitated de-
bate, Notwithstanding the absence of Mr..
Edmunds, who has a large interest in the
question. Mr.. Edmunds, however. has
frequently maintained that the question
at issue was merely a ''moot' question
and not practical one. MIR. Sherman
said:
The question of reasons does not arise here.
we can Cdu IOr reason lOf any OuCldl aCb.
The real question in that matter is that we
cannot call on the President for the reason
why he removed person. believe with the
Senator from Alabama tMr. Pugh) that no
Senator denies that the Senate as legislative
body can call for reason for any act OF the
Executive Department When the question
was raised during President Hayes admins
tration President Hayes did what President
Cleveland has done He said that as a CO.
ordinate branch of the government he was
not to give his reasons for an official act. /
think that is right, but that we have the right
10 seek Information OF any department OF the
government, whether the information be on
paper or by parOl, / do not think there Is
any doubt whatever. But for that we could
not legislate, we could not even by executive
session.
NO DOOR CLOSED.
have just as much right to so to any de-
partment and ask for any papers affecting
that department affecting the legislative
business If so there armed with the power
of the Senate as the Secretary Of the Treas
ury, or any department of the government, or
as tine President of the United States. That
has always from the foundation of the gov
ernment been an established law. President
Washington. IN one of the first cOmmunica-
u0ns that he made to this Senate, complained
OF the Senate that it did not call for lnforma-
ton. In all my experience have never
known case where department or Presi-
dent had refused TO give information con-
tanned in the department upon any act what
ever. whether executive or legislative.
believe, did cOmDlain that the Senate did not
ask him for his reasons for an appointment he
proposed TO make. He did not complain that
IL had not asked him his reasons for removal.
QUIBBLING OVER THE DISTINCTION.
MIR. ShermRn-That is a modern distinction
for which, thInk, the Senator's will find 10
color. If they can show me where that nice
distinction that is contained in the resolution
of the Senator from Alabama Off. Pugh)
was first invented by mortal man
| Rnnnl0 know
origin. What distinction is there? I cannot
see any, Any information that may affect
the judgment or conduct of Senator on any
subject of the public is Information that he
the Presidentl is bound to communicate.
There ought to be no secrets whatever IN this
government Of ours. 1t is a government Of
the people. There is no rule or provision for
keeping secrets.
THE ACT OF 1869.
Mr.. saulsbury-The very act of lso9-a
modified act for the benefit OF Gen. Grant
vested In the President discretion in reference
to suspension from Oaico. Now does the SEN
atOr from Ohio (hir. sherman) insist that we
have anything to do with the discretion OF the
President in reference to removals or suspen-
siOns?
Mr.. sherman-We have no right to say
to anothrr department of the government,
''For what reason did you do this thing"
The President has no right to come 10 Us and
say, 'Why did you pass this lawg" He has no
right to cross-eXamjne us. The departments
are separate and distinct, but all information
contained on the fl es OF any department is
just as much the property of the Senator from
Delaware DIR. Salisbury as of anybody
else. There is no secret in this government
that can be projected from legislative super
vision.
RIGHTS OF TRUSTEES.
Mr.. Saulsbury--I differ from the Senator in
regard TO tais. II we have nomination to
act on we can call for Information as to the
nominee. but when we go behind that and ask
for information as to the suspended officer, en-
tire discretion IS vested In the President. I
would like 60 ask the Senator as a lawyer
whether there is any court in this country,
from the Supreme Court down, that can con-
troll the discretion Of trustee. however hum
bic the trustee may be2
RIGHTS OF DISCRETION.
Mr.. Sherman-Is not that an evasion Of the
whole controversy? We do not claim to ex-
ercse any power whatever over the discre-
tion Of the President. We admit even that
| we do not ask for his reasons, but we have
power to control our own discretiOnB and we
| have right to all the information that we
| can get from the executive department TO
enlighten u. / would like my friend from
| Alabama Or. Pugh) TO point out where In
/ the history Of the past-in any precedent Of
/ the past--he can show this distinction be-
] tween executive information and legislative
information. There Is no distinction. No
| body proposes TO control the exercise OF the
| Presidents discretion. He is as independent
| as we are, but he must not control our dis
| erection. He must not prevent US from having
| the same sources of information that he has.
] lie makes a nomination.
GOING BEHIND THE RETURNS.
Why did be make that nomination. Was
| the old Incumbent an undt man, a corrupt
/ man, a thief, a defaulter, or the like Our
/ discretion must be enlightened by all the in
/ formation that the President has. l say,
/ therefore, that we have a right TO call for
/ that information. Az the same time we
/ should be TO the President always courteous,
/ and II he should give any reason for with
! holding paper, for example, because IL WAS
marked Onhiential," should not object 10
| that. If there are papers not meant for the
public eye and he should choose 10 withhold
/ them As a matter OF confidence. would say
that that was probably a case for the exercise
OF discretion.
PAPERS ON FILE.
Ifhe should say: 81 do not care 10 talk
about that, that came TO me in confidence"
that rs one thing but when hc says that the
papers upon which he acts containing charges
made boldly, and openly controlled his rca-
son and controlled his conduct In making an
appointment aud the paprra are on the public
file, hs has no right 20 withhold those papers
merely because they came TO MIN about an
executive matter. He ought Co give them to
us unless they are In the nature Of a secret,
confidential, papers cOming 70 him privately;
but they ought not to be He'd They ought
not % be there 20 poison The fame Of p man,
or 10 ancct his family IN the future time. N
they are not to De seen by us aud they ought,
possibly. 20 be seen by him, they ought % he
put iu the waste basket without action. This
4. - a..