The Indianapolis journal. [volume] (Indianapolis [Ind.]) 1867-1904, 1886-04-09


be questioned that Its condition was one of solid
ity and safety, compared with that Of the time
when Hungary was making war upon her.
THE claim OF Ireland to make laws for her
self was never denied continued Mr.. Gladstone.
until the reign Of George III. The Parliament
of Grattan was as independent in point of au-
thority as it could be- They 1.-THE government)
were not about to propose the repeal of ths
union. 1t was impossible to propose the repeal
OF the union until they had settled what was the
essence OF the union" He defined the essence
OF the union to be the fact that whereas, before
the union there were two separate and independ-
ent pariaments; after the union there was but
one To speak of the dsmemberment of the
empire was. in this century, msnomer and an
absurdity. The fault of the admins
trative system of Ireland was that its
source of action was English. [Cheers.l
The government, therefore, felt that the settle
ment OF the question was to be found by estab
fishing Parliament in Dublin Irish checrsI for
the conduct of business Of both legislative and
an administrative nature The political econ
omy OF the three countries must be reconciled.
There should be an equitable distribution of i'm
perial burdens. Next, there must be reasona-
ole safeguard for the minority And why could
not this minority in Ireland take care of itself
He had no doubt about it's ability to do that
when we have passed through the present crit.
ical period and been disarmed of the jealousies
with which any change was approached. But
for the present there were three classes of people
whom they were bound to consider First the
class connected with the land; second, the civil
servants and officers of the government in Ire
land; third, the Protestant minority.
The speaker could not admit the claim of the
Protestant minority in Ulster or elsewhere to
rule on questions which were for the whole Of
ernment of Ulster had been submitted te
him. One was that Ulster province
should be excluded from the operations
Of the present BILL another was
that separate autonomy should be provided for
Ulster, and third suggested that certain rights
should be reserved and placed under provincial
councils. No one of these proposals had ap,
peared to the government to be 30 completely
justified by its merits or by the weight of public
opinion in its favor as to warrant the govern
deserved fair consideration, and the free discus
sion that would follow the introduction of the
present bill might lead to the discovery of one
plan which had a predominating amount of sup
port, and the government would do their best to
adopt the plan that seemed likely to give general
satisfaction. Referring to the great settlement
of 1882 Mr.. Gladstone said:
ut was not real settlement-a and why? Was
it Ireland that prevented real settlement being
made2 Irish cheers No. it mistaken
policy OF England, listening to the perniciouG
voice and claims of ascendency. The Irish Par
lament labored under great disadvantages. yet
it had In 1t spark of the spirit Of freedom, and
it emancipated the Roman Catholics In Ireland
unemancipated. 1t received Lord Fitz William
with open arms, and when, after a brief career,
he was recalled to England, the Irish Parliament
registered their confidence in him by passing
resolution desiring that he should still admins
ter the government Lord Ftz William had
promoted the admission OF Roman Catholics into
the Irish Parliament, and there was spirit in
that Parliament which, if it had had free scope,
would have done noble work, and probably
would have solved all the Irish problems and
have saved this government infinite trouble
The speaker said he would now pass to plan
how to give Ireland legislature to deal with
Irish as distinguished from imperial affairs. He
was confronted at the outset with what he felt
to be formidable dilemma. Ireland was to
have domestic legislature for Irish affairs.
That was his postulate from which he set out.
We're the Irish members and the Irish repre-
sentative peers in other house to continue to
form part of the representative assemblies The
speaker thought 1t clear that if Ireland was to
have domestic legislature, the Irish peers and
the Irish representatives could not come to Par
lament to control English and Scotch affairs.
lCheersJ Then, with regard to the question
whether Irish representatives should come to
the House of Commons for the settlement of
imperial affairs he thought that could not be
done. He had, therefore, arrived at the conclu-
sion that Irish members and Irish peers ought
not to sit in the palace of Westminster. ["Oh,n
"oh," and cheers. If Irish members were NOT
to sit In the House of Commons, Irish peers
ought not TO sit in the other house Of Parliament
| Hear" near" ana OH How were the
Irish people to be taxed if they had legislators
in both countries9 He believed that Great
Britain would never impose upon Ireland taxa
ton without representation. and added: "H
we were to have taxation without repre-
sentation, then there would be another cues.
ton which would raise a practical difficulty,
and that is, are we to give up the fiscal unity of
the empire?" He did not think that by giving up
the fiscal unity of the empire they were giving
up the unity of the empire He however, stood
mr. anh al hat f0 0uv
fiscal unity of the empire would be public incon-
venience and misfortune 1t would be great
misfortune for Great Britain. and greater mis-
fortune for Ireland. He conceived that one es-
cape from that dilemma would be such an ar
rangement as would give the imperial govern
ment authority TO levy customs duties, and such
excise duties were formerly connected with
the customs. The conditions of such an arrange
msnt were, first that the general power of taxa
ton over and above those particular duties
should pass into the hands of the domestic legis-
lature in Ireland second, that the proceeds OF
the customs and excise duty be held for the ben.
eft of Ireland and for the discharge of the OBJ
legations of Ireland, and the balance, after these
obligations were discharged, should be covered
into the Irish exchequer, and be at the disposal
of the Irish legislative body The governments
bill provided for this. and the bill provided that
representatives of Ireland should not longer sit
in the House of Commons, or Irish peers in the
House of Lords; but at the same time they
would have the right of addressing the crown,
and SO possess all the constitutional rights they
held now [''Oh," and cheers. 1t would, there
FORE relieve Irish members from attendance at
Westminster Mr. Gladstone said he had sew
eral reasons why this should be the case. Even
il it was possible for them to attend as they had
q Parliament of their own it would be very diff
cult to have two classes of members in the
British House-one class who could vote on all
questions connected with the business of the
country, and another which could only vote on
special and particular questions which were
brought before Parliament Again. il would be
very difficult for gentleman in Ireland to decide
who should go to Westminster or who should
remain in Ireland. And. at the same time, TO
maintain the fiscal unity of the nation, there is
another point with regard to the powers of the
legislature. Two courses might have been
taken. One was to endow this legislative body
with particular legislative powers; the other was
to except from the sphere of its actions those
subjects which the government thought ought to