St. Paul daily globe. [volume] (Saint Paul, Minn.) 1884-1896, 1885-10-24

impossible barrier, warning both sides to
keep the peace. 1t was well known that
about the time President Johnson asked
Gen. Grant the important question above
described, and confidential letters were sent
by the secretary of the navy to leading
naval officers. several of whom are still liv-
ing. The letters asked for have much the
same information"
Grant Refers TO the Matter.
New YORK, Oct. 23.-Concerning the
Grant-Johnson matter Hugh McCulloch,
in an interview, said: This is all new.
never heard anything of the kind before.
1t is a complete surprise and challenges my
credulity without argument. What makes
me doubt the correctness of the statement is
that the personal relations between Presi-
dent johnson and Grant We're of the most
friendly character up to the time at which
Gen. Grant as acting secretary of war
yielded his chair to Secretary Stanton, and
that was a year or more after these occur
rences are reported to have taken place. 1t
is not possible for Inc to deny the correct
ness of MI DepewS narrative because it
may have happened just as he alleges.
Gen. Grant said it did. [ can only repeat
that it is the first time | ever heard of it,
and a proposition involving so much | really
think would have been spoken of and
talked about and hardly kept a secret these
nineteen years" Mr. McCulloch regretted
that he had 10 memoranda from which to
speak positively, but others had and he did
not doubt that the charge would be utterly
disproved. Mr.. Depew said: Gen. Grant
talked to me nearly two hours and his speech
was so graphic that few men would forget
what he said. The story impressed me
very much at the time and my memory Of
it is quite clear and reliable" He told me
the story about Johnson in great detail. [
said to him, General, this is more
INTERESTING AND IMPORTANT
than any OF the recorded events happening
since the war. You ought to write out the
facts. The general replied that for years
he had desired to make written record of
that part of American history, but that he
found no time for the task. I urged that
these facts proved that the country had
been on the verge of another great revOlu
ton, perhaps greater than the other, and
that the people ought to know it." The
general said that he hoped in time to write
the story. 1.-TWO or three days before he
went to Mt McGregor had talk with
him. General said [, do you remember
the story you told me some years ago about
President .Johnson'S extraordinary effort at
the period of reconstruction?"'
Il remember it WE'LL" he replied.
''Have you included it in your memoirs
of the war?" / asked.
mo" he said, - have never written it,
/ suppose Gen. Grant did not want to make
the matter public at that time, not being
willing to provoke controversy. He said
that he was a dying man. He told me
nothing more than what lie told johnson,
that he would drive the illegal congress out
of the capital at the point of the bayonet.
Grant was very earnest in his conversation.
Y ou see if Johnson's proposition had been
carried out the enemies of the North would
probably have controlled congress and such
measures as the fifteenth amendment to the
constitution might have been defeated"
Another Johnson Defender.
Special to the Globe.
WASHINGTON, Oct. 23.-Gen. Rofe S.
Saunders of Tennessee who has been prom
inent in the politics of that state for many
years, declared in strongest terms his dis
belief in Chauncey NJ. Depew'S account OF
Gen. Grants recollections of certain inter
| views between himself and President An
drew johnson.
why" said Gen. Saunders, Grant
| Now. it should be remembered that at the
! time Grant related his version of the affair
| to Depew. he was different man from
what he became later. After his afflictions
and misfortunes he grew penitenI, but
when he talked with Depew he was full of
vindictive hatred Of johnson. In 1871 |
was sitting in eX-President Johnson's IL
| brary with him, in Greenville, Tenn. He
was talking of his experiences as president,
and remarked: I'll show you some un.
written history He reached up to the
book shelves and took down very large
volume, larger than the ordinary ledger OF
business house. There were number OF
these volumes arranged alongside each
other. He laid before me the one he had
taken down, and opened it at place which
was marked by torn piece of newspaper.
1t was detailed record of what had oc.
CURED at memorable cabinet meeting
These volumes contained minutes of al
cabinet meetings of JohnSon's adminiStra
ton. The proceedings were set forth in
clear hand. l read the record of the meet
ing to which he had called my attention
1t contained expressions OF opinions OF
cabinet members concerning Grants
course with regard to the secretaryship o
war; He had, as is well known, consented
|
aiding the administration to get Stantol
out. In that very meeting he was accused
by the president and cabinet ministers of
TREACHERY AND DOUBLE DEALING.
"Gideon Welles employed the stronges
language in denouncing Grants conduct
and | never read such an eXecration as tn
president gave Grant in language as forci
bic as johnson could employ, and he kney
how to employ vigorous English. He de
nounced Grant for his deception and trick
cry. He charged him with having playe
the spy upon the administration and tn
cabinet. After having read the denuncia
ton l asked Mr.. johnson where Gran
was at the time. He replied with grea
earnestness, AS close to ne as you are, an
during the delivery of my remarks l shoe
my finger right in his face He Grant
, continued Gen. Saunders. neither looked u
nor replied. so President Johnson told me
Now. it is plain to be seen that Grant wa
moved by vindictive spite in telling wha
he did. 1t is absurd; Mr.. johnson was nc
. tabooed. 1t is true there were people VIII
didn't like him, but he was governor of th
state. United States senator, etc.. and ha
+ as high a social position as anybody
| Again, there We're very few Southern me
here in Washington at the time Grant re
, fers to. l was elected to congress fror