New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1885-11-02
GRANT AND JOHNSON.
urvp FROM Ex SENATOR CHAFFEE.
,.r GRANT TELLS HIM PRECISELY THE SAME
eh'b oropy THAT HE TOLD Mr.. DEPEW.


r~o' ., ,he truth OF what has been written Dy
su'' NJ Depew is being discussed In the press OF
S,trv have concluded TO send to you Tor paDhca
ino hot hat I have written upon that subject
roh W. cot make any notes of 1t at either of the times
-, Grsnt told the story to me. but IL impressed me
sd,v and / am certain am correct rs 10 tne mann
W. 7 many times urged him TO write history Oh
pon. ,n sbe time Lee surrendered at Appomattot 10
o'e" a, his second Administration. which clsincu
80 no moro interesting TO the puohc tnah ni'
sao,s" because It wOud he new, and IL nc iaiiou ="
nh n hook 1t would DO a leaf OF history when no
man could write. II be had lived and hsd s'rens."
h after the composition OF his MeinoHs ut
MD have written this history covering 'no sU.e
a, this rerod The story OF this part OF Johisou
timcso - r,ven IN me In much more detail than
~ r,,ten and the main points as fixed IN my .in"
-. mayer changed by any subsequent reena Vi .ne
,,ants nv the General. l have no oouo' ""' '""'
,s.,t Johnson would have attempted 10 carr! o''
t..,one could he have depended upon 'ehefa "rant
- "a him in so doing He never intna'eo 10 ine '"a.
seward or any member OF the 0A'il0' was oua
.n,s scheme and for all he knew the CABINET were
johns % ali except the attempt to forcn MIN TO so
w. ,,. ,riss1on with L. ID. CaiuIboll to MEXICO
'oH ,heso recltals to me OF these events occurred
. ,n. s,, hours Of night when We were aioue anu un
,r,od for hours snd do not believe "enerai oran'
"a one word that was not true he was IVA" nv
g., rn,s and scrupulousy careful OF what no sau
tNa oh
,,.rad Johnson would have attempted this scheme
% ~, ,h. mower OF his high Office, provided he had
VIZ" - p,os,isnt encoura cement and his own personal
sr.oment and aid 70 carry 1t into encet-thns Puhsie
A. country into anarchy, and proDaoiy sacrihc''s W
M ono act what the blood OF hundreds OF tnousanus Vi
a,io,o men had been shed to maintain ana preserve
- - al hal boped and supposed forever made secure
rho ,oovIns is what had written touching upon thal
subject: ,, ,,.
.on. Administration. General Grants headquarters as
.,er af all the Armies OF the United states was I'D
washington He had frequent talks with the President
sy.rns the South ana the status OF the late rebels III
se,med 10 JOhnsons DESIRE II not determination 10
srrs,t for punishment some of the most prominent
Conresss without regard to the paroles which he had
s,ran and he had Expressed himself decidedly to the
President that those paroles must not be disturbed The
conservative character OF his position contraSted Win
that Of the Presidents at that time. General Grant
thought was what led Johnson aferward TO nope taI
he might find an ally in him to carry ol the policy he
had In his mind for the reconstruction OF the reOei
states lie had frequent talks with the President In
vsueral way about tho South. but did not give any
opnou about reconstruction, that the President was
in doubt as TO how far the General agreed with hlm ana
how far he could depend upon him in case he had any
serious conflict with Congress.
Give the following in the Generals language as near
a, can rrconert and the tncts related TO me at
pressed me vivdly. l abbreyiate and only give the
material points.
aone day President johnson asked me whose side |
shoad be on If he should have any difficulty with Con-
gress answered that would depend upon who was III
the right He said Congress Was disposed to encroach
upon his prerogative as President and lie woud Dc gad
TO know that he could depend upon my power and in
finance rrovided he had any conflict with Congress
said II Congress ATTEMPTED usurp bis provocative as
President certainly wonld be his side; that was
not in favor of one ordinate branch of the Govern
nent usurping the power OF another and that such
condition could not exist Ia republican government
He then said the senators and Representatives from
the Southern States had Just been elected or were
icing elected were rghtfuly elected and were legally
mart Of Congress- aud ought recognized as SUCH
and seated-that the States they represen ed were
States In the Union Just much they ever WERE that
they FEVER had Of the Uuon and that was the
principle upon which The North fought the Rebellion
that the right way settle the reconstruction question
was to recognize these and Representatives as
duly elected indicating that IL would side with him In
this view he would recognize all those Senators and
Representatives as legally elected and they with the
Democratic Senators and Representatives OF the North
would make majority and would become the Congress
Of the United States and If the rest did not acquesce
and come IN they would be regarded by him as iump
Congress- acts would be illegal and consequently
null and void said MI. President. that wO ula be All
encroachment on yonr part upon coordinate branch OF
:
the Government that would amount TO hish-handed
usurpa ION IL which could not inaOrse or
tolerate that would plunge the country into anarchy
at once anu that could foresee the end also
said gu of the status of those States belonged to
Congress, and [ advised him not TO try such an
experiment
sIn a few days he sent for ma and said lie had
appointed L. D. Campbell of Ohio Minister TO Mexico,
and that he had fitted up vessel especially and With
everything could wish, and he desired me TO 60 with
Campbell to Vera Cruz and II he was not received by
the Authorities Mexico back to the Rio Grande
and proceed up as far Brownsville tour OF obser
vaOr as to the contest between Msxmlan and Juarek
thanked him, but said ! did not wish to 60 and re,
sIectfuly declined. lie said tue trip would be
pleasant and the rest would do me good ana urged
me TO 20. , .,,r
In few days received letter from hin appointing
upon this mission immediately wrote him letter
appointment and referring To our conversation upon this
matter Of few LAY: before ri. ,o.. o. ~. ma a., .,
his way, and determined 10 remain In Washington
meeting arrived little after the time Of meeting,
and after seated Mr.. Seward began To- unfold ana
read a paper which proved to be nv instructions upon
this very mission. arose from my char and asked the
Secretary 10 suspend reading, when L SAID, Mr..
President you once In conversation said You desired
10. go on this expedition, aud then respectfully de-
clined aferward you wrote letter appointing me.
and ans wered YOU 10y letter respectfully but firmly
declining the appointment; and now say " you that
Tant accept the position
Tie President from his chair, and with great
yebenence, bringing his list down on the table, de-
lsadcd Of the Cabinet to know whether he had not
man to this service said MIR President probably
eau answer that question as well or better than any
member Of your Cabinet. This is n civil position, aud
you have power 10 compel me 10 accept any civil
onlce,' then walked out Of the Ioom
In short time he again for and smiling
snd pleasant as ever. He asked nc where General
Sherman was. | replied that he WAS then In New
Mexico lie requested me 10 telegraph him to to
Washington. immediately wired General sherman
that tho President desired him 70 come u Washington
Of once but to stop at 81. Louis ami he would find
letter IRON me. then wrote sherman at st. Louis
about these occurrences, and asked him to come 70 my
house Immediately upon his arrival at Washington.
In due course OF time lac called At my house early
one morning when ] told him what had occur rel and
that Che President would probably ask him go 10
Mexico with Lew Campbell General sherman called
upon the Presi lent and II arranged for HIM ~
ssay-ry shortly aerwaid he and l.. ID. Campbell sailed
1or Vera Graz" j. Ii. CuATPIE
Denpsr. Col, Oct 90, 1885.
JUDGE SEDG WICK AND THE REPUBLICANS