The Indianapolis journal. [volume] (Indianapolis [Ind.]) 1867-1904, 1885-07-11

An Intelligent Member of the Order Believes
All Labor Should Receive the Same Pay.

own moral effort"
I'm what, Doctor, do you consider riches to
consist2r
Il understand by riches what is usually called
capital"
Anything you can exchange for commodities
Tor means of subsistence"
What suggestion would you make in regard
to bringing about a better understanding be-
tween capital and labor"
II would say that the capital should belong to
those who labor, to the workers"
How can that be brought about in the present
state of society,""
Il do not believe it can be brought about all Of
sudden. 1t will be brought about, very likely,
after many preparatory measures"
What, in your opinion, should those meas
ures be-"
"a great many kinds of business now done by
private individuals be carried on by the gov
eminent just in the same way as the postoffice
Is carried on. Railroads may become public
affairs, the telegraph may be public enterprise
just as we'll as the supplying Of water. The sup
plying of general commodities, of bread and
butter and clothing, may as we'll become gov
ornamental enterprises as the supply of water.
OF course the whole public is interested IN get
ting those articles cheap"
'"These changes you think, can be brought
about by legslationW
"Yes, certainly"
500 you think that legislation is alwaysa safe
and eifectual means of remedying the Ills of the
workingmenl"
Those preparatory measures could come
through legislation, but ultimately, | do not
think they will come in that way. They might,
but do not think they will"
"How, then do YOU think they will be brought
about2"
1T is very likely by revolution"
do you think the industrial signs of the
times point to a revolution
Il cannot give a definite answer but L have
no doubt that the final settlement of the social
problem will come by revolution, and, probably,
by more than one revolution"
"What will be the special cause of the revolu-
tion?"
1.-The working classes will insist on getting the
full fruit of their labor, which they do not get
at the present time
''Do yon think that trades unions have been
much benefit to the working peoplel'
II do not think they have done much for the
working people, but think they will do great
deal in the future; expect great deal from
them"
1T is said that socalstic or communistic
revolution is not likely to occur in our country
because many of the wage earnerS themselves
are small property owners"
'Tes, but by and by they will get rid Of that
property. They are getting rid OF 1T now. The
times are getting worse and worse; the small
property-owDers cannot pay off their mortgages
The biggest part of the farmers in the West are
overrun with mortgages. Thousands of the
small working people. taors and so on, are sold
out at auction every week"
"Do you not think that the poor man has had
q better chance in the United States than he
could have had in any foreign countryp
They had a good chance, but they have not
got it row. Their chances are getting poorer
and poorer every year"
when did they have a particularly good
chance in this country!'
Il do not know of any particular time; but at
the time [ came here in 1870 they had a better
chance than they have now. AS soon as the
various industries were undertaken on large
10 rtuxyf hnr,f hnyy 1Oha
at an end
What can be done at the present time to
ameliorate the condition of the workingmen"
1.-THE first thing to be done is to make them
understand their social state; to arouse them
out of their Incidence and apathy and to con-
vince them Of what their interest consists"
''And in what. would you say, Doctor, their in
terest consisted"
'"They must in the first place, understand that
they have right to the biggest part of the real
fruits of their labor, that is now taken from
them by the capitalists, their employers. AS
soon as they understand that they will find
out remedy themselves. The first step toward
the remedy will be organization. Of course the
real remedy will be the abolition of the whole
present social system whereby employers rob
employees of the fruits of their labor. That Is a
point that the laborers do not understand They
believe that getting steady or higher wages
would improve their social state. That is non
sense, and is contradiction in itself, because
wages means that there is an employer who uses
the wage Garner for his own interest. and makes
certain income out of the earnings of that
labor, whereas we understand that the laborer
should have the full earnings Of his labor, SO
that just rate of wages cannot exist"
Mr. Beecher says, in the interview had with
him last week, that the amount of intelligence
or brains man puts in his work should measure
the amount of his compensation
'Al workers should have the same pay. | do
not consider whether it is hand-work or head
work. | consider that there should not be any
difference in giving the means of subsistence to
anyone, whether he is able and willing to do
much or little, whether he is we'll or ilinclined,
whether he is single married whether his
bodily powers are good and strong, OF weak,
whether he is able to do thing another.
1t will be very difficult, in the present state of
society, or even after successful revolution, to
bring the majority of. the people to such an ee-
waited conception of the social state. 1t would
be difficult to explain to the people that such
would be the most moral way of settling the
difficulty So, very likely, after what we may
call successful social revolution, the earnings OF
different individuals would not be adiusted alike;
that the earnings of workers, or what call
wages, would be different.
Il do not see, Doctor. how you can, in Justice
make the earnings of all classes the same Sure
ly the physician, for instance, who scientifically
assists in the elimination of an event of domes-
tic interest having reference to an increase of
the population, is entitled to higher pay than
the man who digs ditch, bricklayer!"
Suppose we want million brick layers, and
we have only 999, 999 we want one more, and
that one cannot be spared, and we want only one
hundred physicians. One of one class is just as
necessary as one of another class. And as
said after the first successful social revolution,
it is very likely that different trades will be
compensated for their labor at different rates of
pay, the same now, but, of course the differ
ence Will not be as great as it is The great
point is that the change will be brought about
by better education of the whole people. And
that will be one of the greatest points n really
social commonwealth-the people will get a
much better education than they do now. All
will be so educated that one man can work in
different ways. All will get sort of scientific
education and all will be compelled to work not
only with their brains, but also with their
muscles And so the brick layer will be able
not only to work in different trades that require
muscular power. but he will also be able to
use his brains in some other branch of industry
lhat will heln GREAT deal 70 enaliza be MANS