The Indianapolis journal. [volume] (Indianapolis [Ind.]) 1867-1904, 1885-02-21
A TALK WITH THURMAN.
Praise OF BIaine's Observation-Disclosures OF
Benton, Clay and Webster.


hours conversation, bat he did not have to co
that at all to make himself a charming speaker.
He grows on one There is about him gente-
ness, a simplicity and homely wisdom that make
one feel near to him as father. 1t does not
take long to discover those traits that make HIM
the idol of the people among whom he has lived
so many years, and before whose eyes he has
built personal character as spotless as any that
shall ever be honored with place on the pages
of American history. His kind -heartedness, his
charity for all men, his appreciation of truth
and honesty and manly worth all draw him
close to every generous heart that knows him.
The men who do not like him are the plotters
and the schemers, who do not show themselves
IN the broad daylight.
fail to call to mind anything he said that
more strikingly illustrated the absolute fairness
of the man than his comments of Mr. BlaineS
Twenty Years of Congress" He was talking
about history, how great consolation he found
in reading it, that he found it moro entertain.
ing than any other branch of literature and
that he often became SO charmed by historical
story that he would sit up till and o'clock in
the morning, and even later. / asked him if he
had read Mr.. Blaines book.
"Oh yes" he replied; II read the first volume
when it first came out"
do you think he will give you fair treatment
when he comes to see you in the second volumel'
81 do. In fact, / have no doubt of it, Blaine,
is not man who carries malice. There are GER.
tain statements in his first volume that are not
strictly correct from our standpoint, but, take it
as whole. it is a remarkably fair book; and not
only very fair book, but an exceedingly we'll
written one. The English is piain vigorous and
we'll sustained. If the second volume is as good
in style and as fair in statement as the first l.
think the work will become classic in our po-
litical history. have just noticed, by the way,
that Cox Is. S. has written book on congress
ional history. | shall be glad to see ith
while speaking of congressional histories,
Mr.. Thurman, may ask you what you think or
Mr.. Bentons Thirty Years ViewP"
ooh, we'll, that hardly ranks as history It
certainly does not rank with book like Blaine's
I happened to know something about how Ben
tons book came to be published. 1t was really
never intended to be history of the Senate
Benton's friends got after him about printing his
speeches He finally hit upon the idea of that
book which is really little moro than running
account of the legislation in the Senate for thirty
years. with his speeches thrown in"
From Mr.. Benton's book the conversatIoH
drifted to the Senate while Benton was there.
There was one thing in particular that struck
me when went into the Senate Chamber the
first time' said Mr.. Thurman, land saw Benton,
Clay, Webster and others of their class They
were nearly all large men. believe two thirds
of the members of the Senate at that time were
six feet or over. 1t was not mere fancy. Mr..
Clay was over six feet so was Mr. Calhoun; so
was Mr. Benton; so was Mr.. Preston
Mr. Semple, of illinois; so was my uncle William
Allen, and SO were many others. Some Of them
were six feet two inches or even six feet three.
l.
neither do they dress with such care. The first
time saw the Senate every member wore a
dress coat. They now go into the Senate cham
Der with ally sort Of suit on, and suppose /
was as bad as any of them. Bayard always
looks neat, hut think ingalls, takes more pains
with his clothes than any of them. The custom
of the Senate in the matterof personalities used
to he much more strict than it now is Once,
while Aaron Burr was Vice president and pre-
siding officer of the Senate member who had
haar ont lin in and hIc txtfh
his boots Burr sent word to him by page
that he would be obliged if he would retire at
once and appear in dress becoming his place in
the Senate chamber
II suppose you remember Webster well, Sem
atorr
II have heard him speak, and have never
heard his equal. Whenever think of Webster
feel that appreciate the remark once made
about him by Sydney Smith. Webster was i'm
England on a visit and somebody asked Sydney
Smith if he had seen the great American. He
said he had Well, what did he think of himg
He is cathedral he said. That is just my
idea of him. never saw such play of ideas
on any mans face while speaking. The cavern
GUS depths of his eyes seemed to be actually on
fire. He had most grave and solemn express
sion of countenance, but Vinton, who knew him
intimately told me he had great fund of humor
and good jokes and that he could tell story al
we'll as Tom Corwin."
Mr. Thurman was in Congress part of tho
time during Folks administration. and has been
pretty we'll acquainted with public men at
Washington since 1910. Since there has been
80 much said recently about the expense of hold
ing the Office of Secretary of State, asked him
if he could tell me anything about the way Web
ster, Buchanan, Calhoun, Marcy and other dis.
tinguished gentlemen had lived while they held
that Office.
us it not true" said |. s.that Webster and
some of the others of the old and so-called
economical regime entertained more extrava-
gantly, according to the time in which they
lived, than men now holding the Office Of Secre-
tary Of Slater $500
So"
did not Webster buy home for the express
purpose Of entertaining people in grand style"
HE may have bought q house." said Mr..
Thurman, slowly, with significant smile, as
though he meant he might have bought it but
never paid for it. Perhaps he thought of the
story about the great Massachusetts statesman
when he made speech at Baltimore once. He
was, according to a conventional but expressive
phrase, ''about three sheets in the wind" and
had made rather a loose talk on finance.
"But what about the national debtW said
somebody in the crowd
Webster looked up and thrust both hands
down into his capacious pockets and said: 'How
much is it, I'll just pay it.
mo" continued Mr. Thurman II believe
every Secretary of State we had up to the war
lived within his salary. Mr.. Calhoun certainly
did. ] think he always, while at Washington
lived in the rooms, near the Capitol where no
died. Mr.. Marcy was very economical man,
and am sure he never exceeded his salary He
was the last Democratic Secretary of State before
the war. Mr. Buchanan was Folks Secretary OK
State and was in Washington much of the
time while he was serving in that position, and
I knew him well He was probably the wealth
lest Democrat who ever held the Office In his
day he was considered a rich man, though
there were no millionaires in pub
lie at Washington in those times Old
Buck, as we used to call him, was bachelor and
a very polite and courtly gentleman, and yet
do lot think that he owned house in Washing
ton He gave an occasional dinner at his hotel,
but never anything extravagant He gave ono
ball, which was then considered the gfandest one
that had ever been given by Secretary of State:
The ladies got about him and told him he would
never marry in the world if he did not give
ball. He finally consented to do so. and it cama
off at place called Carusi's saloon. 1t was not
saloon in the sense of drinking place, but ahall
what in French we would call a salon, If you
please There were over thousand invitations