The Dallas daily herald. [volume] (Dallas, Tex.) 1873-1887, 1885-10-24
MORE SLUSH
ABOUT GRANT AND JOHNSON.
Mccullough, Butler and Others Tell
what they Know, and Frank burr
Gets His Book Largely Adver-
tised--ihe Weight Of Evil
dence Against Depaw.

NEW YORK, Oct. 2S.--The Herald this
morning has further details of the
Grsnt'Johnson matter comprised in ar
Interview with Hugh MCCULLOUGH at
his Maryland homo.
MIR. M'cULLoUau SAID:
"This In all new to mo. never heard
anything of the kind before. Itisa
complete surprise aud challenges
my credulity without arga.
ment. What makes mo doubt the
correctness of the statement il that
the personal rslations between Pros,-
dent johnson and General Grant were
Of the most friendly character up 10
the time ofwhich General Grant, as
acting secretary of war, yielded hiA
chair to secretary Stanton, and that
was year or more after these occur-
rences are reported to have taken
place. 1t IL no. possible for me to deny
The correctness OF Mr.. Dapsw's nara
tive, because 1t may have happened
Just as he alleges Geueral Grant said it
did. can only repeat that 1t is the
first time ever hesrd OF it, and a pro-
position involving SO much really
think would have been spoken of and
talked about, and hardly kept q secret
these 10 years"
Mr.. Mccullough regretted that he
had not memoranda from which no
could speak positively, but said others
had, and he did net doubt but that tho
chafge would be utterly Ciisproved.
MIR. DEPEW,
III speaking OF tho Iaatter to a re-
porter said; "Genersl Grant talked 10
me Tor nearly two hours, and his
speech was so graphic that few mon
would forget what he said, The story
impressed u9 very mucf c5 the time,
ana my memory Of 'cis quite clear aud
reiiabia. EO told me TIE story gbout
johnson In great dc all, Isaid to him: !:
'General, this iR moro Interesting and
important taan any oe the recorded
events happening sinca the war. You
ought 10 write onb the faets'
"Th0 general replied. that for wears
no mad wished 10 make q writton
record OF that part Of American his
tory, but that ho found no time for the
task. urged that these facts proved
that the country had been ON the verge
OF another great revolution, perhaps
graver IN IN the other, and that the
people on ght to know it. The general
said he hoped ia time to write tho
story.
"Two or three days before ho went TO
Moust McGregor, l had talk with
him.
"'Geueral,' said do you remember
Tho story you told rue some years ago
about President Johuson's extrao,di-
nary effort st the period OF reconsSruc-
tion.'
"'I remember 1t well,' he replied,
"'hays you included IL in your me :
moirS OF the warp / asked.
"'No,' ho said, Il have never written
it,
II suppose General Grant did not
want TO rake the matter public at that
time, not being willing to provoke q
controversy, SO he realized that he was
a dying man. He told me nothing
more than Whist he told Johuson, that
he would drive the Illegal Congress .
out OF the capitol a, tho pcint OF tho
bayonet. Grant waA veSy earnest in
his conversation. You see ii John
sons proposition hnd been carried out,
the enemies OF the North would proba.
bly, have controlled Congress-, and
such measures as the fifteenth amend
ment tn the cnnstitution might havo
beon defeated"
roborative facts, Depaw replied:
swell, ses thGt General Sherman
says he knows all about it, aud Gen
| eral Horace Porter was acquainted
with the matter. Besides, Vice. Presi-
don't Frank Thompson, of tho Penn
sylvanla railroad, told me Yesterday
that years ago, ex.Judge Jeremiah
Black informed him of Johnson,sinlen-
tion. Johnson sent for Black and laid
before him tho plan which he had laid
before Grant. He asked Black for his
aid IN carrying out the scheme. You
know that Black had been attorney
general in Buchanan's cabinet, and
was vary warm advocate OF John.
sons side. Black heard all that john
son had to say, and when the whole
plan was revealed, he said,
"Hou have left one important factor
OF your calculation, Mr.. President
"'WhaS is thatY johnson asked,
"'Hell,' WAS Blacks reply.O
The Boston Transcript priats an In
terview with
GEORGE II. GORDON,
VINO commanded the district of East
ern Virginia In 1865. General Gordon
says that tho history OF the change o.
policy OF Johnson's administration is
still - secret. He givos the names of
ovor36 rebel leaders, including Hamp-
ton, Early, Wise, Ould, Longstreet,
Prior and Hunter, who were
Indicted for high tregsop bv
iho grand jury OF the United
States district court at Norfolk, at the
Instance OF tho government, and SAYS
that on Juno 8, 1866, the government
made inquiry of him, through General
ord, now the proceedings against tho
surrendered oiilcers wore progressing.
it is evident that tho terms capitu-
lation OF General Lea coul,. not bo
made to cover the casos of Seddon,
VINO was tho rebel secretary of war up
10 the early part Of 1865, orof Faulkner
or Wlso. for they We're not surron-
dered officers OF the Confederate army
OF Northern Virginia. General Cor
uon says no never knew why or now
what changed President tJohnson'spur-
pose, but IL confident that IL was not
the argument OF q broken down, ruined
aristooracy to take him up ana mako
him ono OF themselves.
nEN DUTLER's BUDGET.
The Commercial Advertiser pub
lishos an interview with General Bat.
lor by Its Boston correspondent
on the GrantJohnson contro.
versy. Genoral Butler says thore arc
many reasons why tho charge that
Johnson desired 60 revolutionzo tho
government wnS moo brought up
IN the Impeachment trial. Tho
chief reason, and tho conclusive
ono, was that tho oironse was
not charged In tho articles OF i'm nesch.
ment, aud he (Butlor), M council In
the case, did not caro- TO oifir incompe.
tont testimony. Tho charge was
nct embodied In tho articles
OF Impeachment because II could not
be proved. Tho talk between General
Grant aud johnson, his commander in.
cniet, was IN tho nature of q
Privileged communication, aud that
General Grant no hold was shown by
The fact that ho did hot declare IL until
long alter Johnson's death, TIL
Uihopo vuu onnyts~ ....t..s - tp.a,-