The Indianapolis journal. [volume] (Indianapolis [Ind.]) 1867-1904, 1885-03-28
GRANT AS A BUSINESS MAN.
The General Tells the Story of His Con-
ap nectiOn with Grant 4 Ward.
He Put 100000 in the Firm, and Insisted
that the Concern Should Have Nothing
To Do with Government Contracts.

General Grant, taken in his house, yesterday, by
James H. Fish, official stenographer of the court
in which the trial of ex- President Fish, of the
Marine Bank, is proceeding was read to-day in
court General Grant testified as follows, upon
examination by counsel for defendants
BY Mr. Clarke-You were a partner in the
firm Of Grant & Wards
Ayes sir; am informed was at the time
the failure took place. l never knew / was any
| paid in $50, 900 first, and then, afterward.
500, 600 more. | don't remember the dates.
paid in 100000
Q.--On the 1st of May, 1884, what did you I'M
derstand you were worth; about WHAT
Al supposed that was worth we'll nigh
million dollars. / had no suspicion of any ras-
cality, and therefore there was nothing to confne
my mind to any such dates Regarding my first
acquaintance with Fish, l suppose it was upon
introduction by my son and Mr. Ward / sup
my son who got acquainted with Ferdinand
Ward through Wards brother, and that ac-
quaintance was led on to in that way. The man
was supposed, so far as l ever knew,
to be reputable banker, until after
that person should make his acquaintance.
had dim recollection. after the failure, of
ceiving letter from Fish while was living at
Long Branch. l went down there about the
middle of June. don't suppose that ever saw
ton of receiving letter and sitting down and
writing an answer at once, and the substance of
my answer was that had a good deal to do
that day, and that it was doubtful when ! should
be able to go and see him; that i'll could would,
but that believed the matters that his firm
were engaged in were all right-something like
that
Q--Haven't you any recollection as to what
has become of that letter.
A.-No. sir, have not have never been in
n
was to try suppose | should make poor
record My business in life has been such that
somebody else has always taken care of the
letters that had to be saved, and the only way
have now of preserving letter that | wish to
preserve until do something with it, is to put
it in my side-coat pocket or put it in the drawer
where l write, and then, when / want to look
for the letter. it is about the last one | find.
| might state here that, although don't know
whether it would have any effect or net, at the
time went into the firm, had very small
income but had some money that my son had
saved for me while / gone abroad some
money that / had left, and which he had so
managed that l had saved some of it, and he
proposed to let me have half his interest in the
firm, so / would have an income to live upon;
and there was afterward an income raised for
nae, and after that the firm generously con-
Guided to let me in as half partner and then
afterwards as whole partner, special, not gen.
era-generously as l thought at the time.
The General then cross examined by
counsel for the government, Mr.. Root.
Q.--General Grant, what was the hour at
which you were accustomed to reach your office
in the morning. when you were staying at Long
Branch, in the summer OF 1881
A.-Ten o'clock was about my arriving time at
the Office.
Odd you Observe in the letter which you
received from Mr. Fish, any reference to govern
ment contractsl
A.-No, there was not. I had told Mr. Ward.
when it was mentioned, that there never must
be any government contracts there. There is
nothing wrong in being engaged in government
contracts more than In anything else, unless
made wrong by acts Of the individual; but / had
been President of the United States, and did
not think it was suitable to have my name con-
rooted with government contracts, and
them, except by dishonest measures. There
are some men who got government contracts
year in and year out, and whether they managed
their affairs dishonesty, to make profit not,
they are sometimes supposed to, and | did not
think it was any place for ME,
Q.-And you did not find in that letter you
received any reference to any thing Of that sort?
Al did not find anything OF that sort, or
should have stopped; but, as a matter of fact,
may never have seen that letter. Mr. Ward
may have just simply have given me a state
ment of the contents of that letter.
Q.-What did you understand to be the rela-
tons of the firm Of Grant & Ward to the Marine
Bank2
A-Wel, knew Ward was director
there and seemed to have a great deal to do
with it, but never suspected there being any
thing wrong about it,
ABOUT GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS.
Odd you, at any time, know or understand
that the firm of Grant & Ward had engaged in
government contracts, or in furnishing money to
be used in carrying out government contracts?
Al never knew of but one contract that is,
10, -.
kind, and questioned him. and he said that he
had just been out and bought $50, 900 bushels
of oats, 1 think it was and there was
quite large quantity more to be
eersse tod ID me oh'ag ge date % be when aey
was to be delivered--and that the contractor had
not the money to do it with, and that he was
doing it for a certain amount, stipulated
amount But the contract was let to other
parties. l said did not see that there was any
thing the matter with that. The man had con
tract from the government for quantity of
oats, and oats was an article that could be pur
chased very easily the Chicago market.
said L didn't see anything wrong in that, we
had no contract. Then, afterward, began to
hear-and that wasn't long before the failure =
whispers around that he was say
ing ne had government contracts, and l
questioned him about it, and he said he had no
such thing. He said he wouldn't do anything
tnal was going 10 lnJure me OF anytnlng re-
quested him not to, and said he had no contracts
anywhere. It had been said he had city con-
tracts and he as much as said to me that he was
very we'll acquainted with city officials. and that
made it easy for him to get contracts from the
city, and told him did not know whether there
much difference between contracts for New
York city and those made by the government of
the United States, so far as that is concerned
and then he told me he had never had contract
at all of any kind with the government of the
United States or with the CITY of New York
That the way he did, and he
gave me an instance. He said: Now
here is man who has section
of railroad, and / don't know what road it Isl it
was a road going through Pittsburg, I think,
and connected with the Reading road He said
there was man who had section of that road
to build, and he said that man, if he could have
money furnished for his expenses and his tools
and his little steam engine, and every thing he
needed there, he could work it to very much