St. Paul daily globe. [volume] (Saint Paul, Minn.) 1884-1896, 1885-03-28
GEN. GRANT TESTIFlES.
The Testimony of the Ex-President
Read in Court at the
Fish Trial.
What He has to Say About His Con-
nectiOn With the Arch
SChemer, Ward.
His Interest in the Firm Of Grant & Ward and
the Profits He Drew Out
Of it,
Fish Testifies Briefly in His Own Behalf
Gen. Grants Condition Much
Improved.

NEW YORK, March 27.-The testimony OF
Gen. Grant, taken in his house yesterday by
James Fl. Fish, official stenographer of the
court in which the trial of ex-President Fish
of the Marine bank, is proceeding, was read
to-day in court.
Gen. Grant testified as follows upon the
examination by the counsel for the defend
ant:
By Mr.. Clarke: Question. You we're a
partner in the firm of Grant & Ward!
Answer. Yes, sir; 1 am informed 1 was
at the time the failure took place. l never
knew was anything else than special part
ner clear to the end. I paid in S5U,0 900 at
first, and then afterward $4,000 more.
l don't remember the dates. l paid in
100000. eF
@. On the LIST of May 1884, what did
you understand you were worth; about what!
A. l supposed that was worth well nigh
to million dollars. / had no suspicion of
any rascality and therefore there was moth
ing to eonfine my mind to any such dates.
Regarding my first acquaintance with Fish,
I suppose it was upon an introduction by my
son and Mr.. Ward. 1 suppose if you should
60 clean back that it was my son who got ac-
quainted with Ferdinand Ward through
Wards brother and that the acquaintance
was led on to in that way. The man was
supposed, so far as l ever knew, to be
REPUTABLE BANKER
until after the failure, and it was not aston
ishing that person should make his &C
ouaintance. I had a dim recollection after
the failure of receiving letter from Fish
while was living at Long Branch. I went
oh fIo ~
don't suppose that I ever saw the one that
was published. 1 have a recollection of re-
ceiving letter and sitting down and writing
an answer at once, and the substance of my
answer was that had good deal to do that
day, aud that it was doubtful when / should
be able to go see him {; that if could I would,
but that l believed the matters his firm were
engaged in were all right. Something like
that.
@. Haven't you any recollection as to
what has become of that letter of Mr.. Fish ?
A. No, sir; l have not. never have been
in the habit of preserving private letters, and
if was to try suppose | should make poor
record My business in life has been such
that somebody else has always
TAKEN CARE OF THE LETTERS
that had to be saved, and the only way have
now of preserving letter that wish to pre-
serve until do something with il is to put it
in my side coat pocket, or put it in
the drawer where l write and then when
want to look for letter it is about the last
one l find. l might state here, although
don't know whether it would have any effect
or not, that at the time | went into the firm
l had very small income, but l had some
money that my son had saved for me while
was gone abroad, some money that l had
left aud which he had so managed that had
saved some of it, and he proposed to let me
have half his interest in the firm, SO | would
have an
INCOME TO LIVE UPON
and there was afterward an income raised
for me, and after that the firm generously
concluded to let me in as a half partner, and
then afterward as q whole partner-specia,
not general-generously as / thought at the
time.
Q. Did you observe that letter which you
received from Mr.. Fish and to which letter,
which has been identified by you
and which is entirely in your handwriting,
was an answer in any reference to govern
ment contracts!
A. No; there was not / had told Mr.
Ward when it was mentioned that there must
never be any government contracts there.
There is nothing wrong in being engaged in
government contracts more than in anything
else unless made wrong by acts of an indi-
vidual, but had been president of the Uni
ted States, and did not think it was suitable
for me 10
HAVE MY NAME CONNECTED
with government contracts, and / knew
there was no large profit in them except by
dishonest measures.
Q. What did you understand to be the re-
ations of the firm of Grant q Ward TO the
Marine bank!
A. Well, knew Ward was director
there and seemed to have great deal TO do
with it, but | never suspected there being
anything wrong about it.
Q. Did you at any time know or under
stand that the firm of Grant u Ward had en-
gagged in government contracts or in
furnishing money 10 be used In carrying out
government contractsl
a. ] never knew Of but one contract |;
that Is, where he said there was a transaction
of that kind, and questioned him about it
and he said he had just been out and bought
$4,000 bushels of oats, | think it
was, and there was quite large
quantity more TO be purchased
in Chicago to be delivered. He told me the
date when it was 10 be delivered; that the
contractor hadn't the money to do 1t with,
and that he was doing it for certain amount
"a stipulated amount; but the contract was
to the other parties. And | said that l did
not see that there was
ANYTHING THE MATTER WITH THAT.
The men had a contract from the govern
10 ~ -
article that could be purchased very
easily on the Chicago market, and
said did not see anything
wrong in that, as we had no coutract Then,
afterward, | began to hear, and that wasn't
long before the failure, whispers around that
he was saying he had government contracts,
and questioned bim about it, and he said
he had no such thing. He said he wouldn It
do anything that was going TO injure me,
or ANYTHING ! requested him not to,
and he said he had no contracts
anywhere. 1t had been said he lad CITY con-
tracts, and be as much as said to me he was
very well
ACQUAINTED WITH CITY OFFICIALS,
and that made it easy for bin to get con-
tracts from the city, and told him didn't
know whether there was much difference
between contracts for New York city and
those made by the government of the United
States, so far as that is concerned and
then he told me be had never
had a contract at ell Of any kind with the
government of the United States or with the
city Of New York; that the way he did was
and he gave me An insianee-he says: "Now
here N a man who has a section Of railroad, -
and don't know what road II was. It was a
road going through Pittsburg, think CON
nected with the Reading road; he said there
was a man who bad section Of that road TO
build, and be said that the man, If he could
have money furnished for his horses and his
tools and
HIS LITTLE STEAM ENGINE
and everything be needed there he could
work TO very much better advantage in his
o-.-.-.n. - .na. ~ f--- II c.. 4 III