The Indianapolis journal. [volume] (Indianapolis [Ind.]) 1867-1904, 1885-02-12
POWERS OF THE v1cE-PREsIDENT.
The Duties of the Presiding Officer oz the
Senate in Counting the Votes.

ators returned to the Senate Chamber, and the
President pro tenn. of the body having resumed
the chair, the tellers on the part of the Senate,
Messrs. Hoar and Pendleton, appeared. and ON
their behalf Mr.. Hoar reported the result of the
electoral count When the tellers' report was
completed, the President of the Senate repeat
ed verbatim the closing sentence of the an
n~ouncement made by him in the House Of Rep
resentativesr relating to the declaration of the
vote. That sentence was as follows:
"And the President of the Senate makes this
declaration only as a public statement, in the
presence of the two Houses of Congress. of the
contents OF the papers opened and read on this
occasion, ana not as possessing any authority
In law to declare any egalconclusio whatever
Mr.. Conger said he desired. as one of the men,
bers of the Senate, to say that he entirely dis
scented from the declaration that the President
of the Senate, or the Vice president. had no
other power In announcing that vote than
to announce the fact, and he did not know by
what authority the sentence quoted had been
made part of the declaration.
Mr.. Sherman said: II also wish, for myself,
having put on record my opinion on this question
at other times, to again assert and put on record
my opinion that the declaration made was the
declaration of the gentleman who presided on
that occasion, expressing his own opinion, aud
should not be taken as a precedent, except so
far as 1t may command the judgement of man
kind hereafter. I believe that the Vice presi-
dent of the United States declared and exercised q
constitutional power when he presided over tha
body to-day and counted the vote, and that his
announcement of the vote is conclusive of ali ar
gument upon the question, and that in doing so
he not only gave his own opinion as the result OF
certain papers given to him, but he made the
only constitutional declaration provided for un-
der existing law of who is to be President of the
United States after the 4th of March"
Mr.. Hoar-I conceived it to be my duty. as
one of the %tellers. to report to the Senate only
so much of the proceedings of the houses as
seemed to me to be Of the substance of the as
certainment declaration of the result. L.
did not, the in the report which / made,
communities Ae various declarations on the
statement, me presiding officer, as I supposed
he understood, as has been stated by the sena-
tor from Ohio (Mr. Sherman) that the declara-
ton which had been adverted to was a declara-
ton of his own understanding of the significance
of the official order. and in no way intended it as
giving authority or as a~ffording any precedent
or weight on the future guidance of the repre-
sentativeS of the American people in the two
houses-except so far as the weight-and de-
served weight-that attaches to the opinion OF
so eminent a constitutional lawyer may impress
them hereafter.
Mr.. Ingalls-Without entering upon a discus
sion of a question that is, and probably always
must remain an open one, l wish on this occa'
sion. to express my dissent, absolutely, from the
conclusion contained in the declaration of the
President, pro tenn. of the Senate, and to say
that. in my judgment, it should not be held in
any way as a precedent covering the action Of
k1NO% AiAA 0~ Ah;1 hAINv 1885,, ns-as To-
hereafter.
Mr.. Wilson, merely wish to express my con-
currence in what has been said by the senator
from Kansas, (Mr Ingallsl In my Judgment,
the duty imposed upon the Vice-president of the
United States, in the matter of counting and
announcing the result of the presidential eleo-
tion, is a high Constitutional duty, and the decla-
ration made by the President pro tempore of the
Senate, according to my Judgment, is not in ac-
cordance with the requirements Of the Constitu-
ton.
Mr.. Lapham-I had occasion, eight years ago,
to examine this question. | found, from the
records of the convention that anne the Consti-
tuition, that this clause of the Constitution relat-
ing to counting the electoral votes, as voted upon
and adopted. read. that the president of tho
Senate should 'then and there open all certid-
Gates, and the votes should then be counted In
the presence of the Senate and House of Repre-
sentatives, making the Senate and House Of
Representatives mere witnesses of an act to DO
performed by the presiding officer. Following
| LIldU. III uISU ICSOlut2Ou III IN
was q resolution of the Continental Congress, in
which they recommended that a president protein
pore of the Senate should be appointed for the sole
purpose of receiving, opening and counting the
electoral votes, and that was done, and the fol-
lowing vice president, Mr.. Adams. counted the
vote, declared the result, and announced himself
elected President of the United States. / be-
lieve. sir. it was the intention of the trainers Of
the Constitution, that the presiding officer OF this
body should perform that duty.
A DEFENSE OF MR. EDMuNDa.
Mr.. Hoar-I do not think it very profitable, at
this stage of the session, to reopen the great de-
bate of eight years ago, but I think, as the sug-
~gestions thus far made have been made on ons
side of the question, it Is proper to remind the
Senate and the country that, by a very largo
majority, the Senate of the United States ex.
pressed, eight years ago, on the fullest debate
its dissent from the propositions which have
been advanced by the last senator Mr. Laphamh
and in that concurring with some of the greatest
constitutional authorities we have ever had IN
this country, including, l believe. John Marshall,
Oliver Ellsworth-if my recollection is not at
fault-Daniel Webster, and Abraham Lincoln;
and the late eminent senator from New York.
and in my hearing that every member of the
Senate, but eight had in his hearing
expressed sentiments which were in conflict
with those which have been expressed by the
senator from Ohio (Mr. Shermanh and the sena-
tor from New York (Mr. Lapham). At any
rate, whether that statement was true or not, a
compilation showed that all tie then senator's
of the United States. with eighteen exceptions-a
very small minority of the body-were on record
expressly and distinctly declaring that the presi-
dent of the Senate had not the power to count
the vote under the Constitution in any sense OF
the term. Counting the vote" implies tho
right to decide what votes should or should not
be taken into consideration in ascertaining tho
constitutional result. myself, Mr.. Hoar con-
tinued, believe that the president of the Senate
derived for the count of today an
authority from the concurrent resolu-
ton which the two branches have passed, and
that his declaration of the count which
the two branches witnessed, and which was tho
result of the report of teliers representing tho
two branches, in their presence, without their
dissent, uttered by authority of the two branches,
uras o constitutional daclaration and nroclaraa-