The Indianapolis journal. [volume] (Indianapolis [Ind.]) 1867-1904, 1885-07-06
SOME ECONOMIC QUESTIONS.
Relation of Labor and Employer-COmbina
tiOn and Monopoly-The Rich and Poor.

Interview with Henry Ward Beecher. in Brooklyn
Union
"Do you think. Mr. Beecher, that there is a
justified feeling of discomfort on the part of the
working people, nowadays, as regards their rela-
tions to their employers and to society in gen.
eral9"
II think there is discomfort amongst many
foreigners. | do not think there is among our
native population. The feeling exists among
foreigners, owing to the way they have been
brought up The workingman who has been
brought up iu our own country, where there is
perfect liberty and freedom, knows that he is
expected to take care of himself and not be taken
care Of by society or any one else. Our Amer
lean idea is that the intention of government is
to defend man against all violence and leave
him perfectly free to develop all that he has in
himself The root of the foreign idea is that the
government is pateInal The government is
asked 10 take care of its people, and the people
grow up with the idea that society ought to take
care of all classes. If there is a scarcity of work
the government must hire people, and pay them,
to make up for the general hard times. If there
is scarcity of food the government must come
in and procure the food But the American idea
to the defense of men in their rights and occu
pations, and that it has nothing to do with the
industrial irregularities of the community
1t is said now in the city that the gov
eminent ought to limit the number of hours in
the day that a man may be obliged to work; and
1t is looking close ON to this, that government
should also determine the wages of men, and we
are running it right into the monarchial chan
nei that the government is bound to do with
having the supervision Of men instead of holding
men secure while they work out their own saliva
ton"
What, Mr.. Beecher, is your opinion of trades
unions?'
Il think very much of the industrial unions
so long as they simply for combinations for
mutual helpfuness; but the moment they go
further thar that, and determine how many
hours day man shall work, at what scale of
wages how many apprentices man may have,
l regard all those efforts the intrusion of the
worst form of monarchy upon our American
IDEAS
ga workingman, thoroughly acquainted with
the trades unions, and an officer In one of Them
told me, lately, Mr.. Beecher. that he did not
know Of an industrial organization in the coun
| try that was not suffering from internal dissen-
sions, growing out of the jealousies and ambi-
lions or It's own members.
''Of course the larger sphere they undertake
to fill the more they will become subject to the
selishness of men and intestine troubles, but
that is incidental to universal human nature"
DO you think workingmen generally are as
we'll Off to day as they were twenty five or thirty
years agoW
Yes, better. Thsy live on a higher grade
They have better clothes. they have better
houses, better furniture. These they have, or
But want to say that 1 have no sympathy at
all with the condition of the work
ingmen, mechanics, day lsborers of
every sort, when they absolutely
refuse to be sef-denying providing today for
the wants of middle life and old age. Men that
now stand high in society have come to be high
because they were economical, industrious,
frugal, until such time as they were able, out of
their amassng, to be above these things. [
stood last week looking at the buildings going
up in my neighborhood and asked the superin-
| tendent about the wages of the men. The
masons receive So a day; The under men receive
from 81 80 to 81 80 for mere manual labor, and
| AS he says, as a general thing, every man spends
the whole of it before the next Monday; having
been paid the Saturday previous he
back Monday morning without cent. With
those that have families it may be supposed
they are living we'll and are good providers, but
the single men spend the whole of their wages.
By what he told me l should judge there isn't
one in twenty that was economizing and care
fully denying himself luxuries and everything
of that kind in order that by and by, he might
have capital of his own. And 1 have asked
the same thing in factories, here, there, ard
elsewhere, with substantially the same repre-
sentation-that the mechanical world are not
rising; that individual men are not rising,
simply because they refuse that close, careful
administration Of their small funds until they
shall amass enough to operate in larger
spheres; they will use as they are earning.
OF course, when sickness, middle life, mis-
fortune old age come, they have nothing
laid up Then society is blamed for the
whole thing, and the poor wages that they get.
We see men every day on low wages that are
saving every year and laying up for themselves
1;{+ uhnCn tt,arc hot
are always without means. We have got to
force the command that they must take care of
themselves and their earnings. A good deal of
religion would be useful in that very spot"
DO you think that much danger to the coun-
try is to be feared from monopoly"
Il do not think there is very much monopoly
in any legitimate sense Of that term. The law
Of combined force is one of the most imperative
and useful of all laws. The law Of partnership
is the law of combination. The Jaw of compa
MES is combination-a combination of capital and
organization, and SO on-and is Of the great
elementary forces OF society. Here and there it
will fall out under such state Of things, that
there will be an injurious form of combination.
bringing power into existence under which the
individual is in danger but at present / do not
apprehend much trouble That is to say, public
sentiment is such that there cannot be very
much oppression on the part of railroads and
manufacturers. The whole atmosphere is in
favor of the rights Of the individual. You can
not get jury in the land hardly, except in the
clearest possible case, that will not go against
the railroad companies, the great factories and
wealthy men. The rights OF the poor, the
rights of the common people, very effect
ually provided for-as nearly perfect as, prob
ably, under human institutions, they can be-"
"a gentleman told me not long ago, Mr..
Beecher, that he opened a small store for his
wife on Court street, Brooklyn, some years ago,
but when the big stores came the receipts be-
came less and less, until finally he had to sell
out to save himself
'You can't help that A man goes down hill
a great deal faster than he comes up HILL there
fore you may say there ought to be some relief
man says / cannot do as much work as this
strong, healthy fellow; he ought to be limited or
not allowed to work We cannot correct such
| things. l think that is adapted to the time and
the community. when in New England shoes
wern made by distributing the nieces al thrnnnh