The Indianapolis journal. [volume] (Indianapolis [Ind.]) 1867-1904, 1885-11-03
GRANT DID DEFY JOHNSON.
Senator Chaffee Corroborates the Recol-
lections of Chauncey NJ. Depew.
Johnson Urged Grant To Go to Mexico, and the
Latter Warned the Former Against At
tempting High-Handed Usurpation.
New York Tribune.

some recollections of General Grant and what he
has said to me in regard to public affairs at diff
ferent times during the last four years of his
life. Since the question of the truth of what
has been written by Chauncey NJ. Depew is be
ing discussed in the press of the country, 1 have
concluded to send to you for publication what /
have written upon that subject. did not make
any notes of it at either of the times that Gen.
Grant told the story to me, but it impressed me
viyidly, and am certain I am correct as to the
main points. l many times urged him to write
history of the events from the time Lee sur
rendered at Appomattox to the end of his second
administration, which | claimed would be more
interesting than his Memoirs, because it would
be new, and if he failed to write such book 1t
would be leaf Of history which no other man
could write. If he had lived and had strength
enough after the composition of his Memoirs. !"
he would have written this history covering the
stirring times of this period.
The story of this part of Johnson's scheme
was given to me in much more detail than have
written, and the maiE points, as fixed in my mind
were never changed by any subsequent recital of
the incidents by the General. L have doubt
but that President johnson would have attempt
ed to carry out the scheme could he have de-
pended upon General Grant to aid him in 50 do
ing. He never intmated to me that Seward, nor
any member of the Cabinet, was cognizant of
Johnson's scheme and for all he knew the Cabi-
net was ignorant of all except the attempt to
force him to go upon the mission with L. d.
Campbell to Mexico
Some of these recitals to me of these events
occurred In the still hours of the night, when we
were alone and undisturbed for hours and do
not believe that General Grant said one word
that was not true. He was a man free from
guile and scrupulously careful of what he said
affecting the character of the humblest person.
he believed johnson would have attempted this
scheme with all the power of his high Office, pro.
sided he had given the President encouragement
and his own personal Endorsement and aid to
carry it into effect. thus plungng the country
into anaichy and probably sacrificing. by his
one act, what the blood of hundreds of thou
sands of patriotic had been shed to main
tain ard preserve, and as all had hoped and sup
posed forever made secure. The following is
what had written touching upon the subject:
After the assassination of Lin coin, and during
johnson 8 administration. General Grants head
quarters, as General of the armies of the United
States, was in Washington. He had frequen.
talks with the President regarding the South and
the status of the late rebels. 1t seemed to be
Johnson's desire, if not determination, to arrest
for punishment some Of the most prominent con-
had given, and he had expressed himself decld
eddy to the President that these paroles must
not be disturbed. The conservative character Of
his position, contrasted with that of the Presi-
dents, at that time, General Grant thought, was
what led johnson afterward to hope that he
might find an ally in him to carry out the
policy he had in his mind for the reconstruction
of the rebel States. He had frequent talks
with the President in a general way about the
South. but did not give any opinion about recon
Cfr ant WAC in tn
how far he could depend upon him in case he had
any serious conflict with Congress.
give the following in the Generals language,
as near as can recollect, and the facts were re-
lated to me at least three times within the last
thre years, and impressed me wildly. I abbre-
yiate and give only material points
Zone day President Johnson asked me whose
side l should be on If he should have any diff
Guilty with Congress. l answered that would
depend upon who was on the right. He said
Congress was disposed to encroach upon his pre-
roeative as President, and he would be glad to
know that he could depend upon my power and
influence provided he had any conflict with Con-
gress. l said, if Congress attempted TO usurp
his prerogative as President | certainly would
be on his side; that was not in favor of
ordinate branch of the government usurping the
power of another. and that such condition
would not exist in a republican government.
'He then said the senators and repreSen Ia
tives from the Southern States who had just
been elected or were being elected were right
fully elected, and were legally part of Con
gress and ought to be recognized such and
seated that the States they represented were
States in the Union just as much as they ever
were; that they never had been out of the
Union, and that was the principle upon
which the North fought the Rebellion; that
their right way to settle the reconstruction
question was to recognize these senators and
representatives as duly elected. indicating
that if l would side with him in this view he
would recognize all those senators and represen-
tatires as legally elected. and they with the
Democratic senators and representatives OF the
North, would make majority aud become the
Congress of the United States, and if the rest
did not acquesce and come in they would be re-
garded by him rump' Congress, whose acts
would be illegal and consequently null and void.
II said, Mr.. President that would be en-
croachment on your part upon coordinate
branch OF the government that would amount to
high handed usurpati0n, ii not treason which
could not indorse or tolerate; that would plunge
the country into anarchy at once, and no one
could foresee the end | also said that the ques-
ton of the status of those States belonged to
Congress. and l advised him not to try such an
experiment
'In few DAYS he sent for me- and said he had
appointed L. ID. Campbell. of Ohio minister to
Mexico. aud that he had fitted up vessel es-
pecially, and with everything could wish and
he desired me to go with Campbell to Vera Cruz
and if he was not received by the authorities of
Mexico to come back to the Rio Grarde and pro-
a
yation as TO the contest between Macmillan and
Juarez. thanked him. but said did not " sh
to go. and respectfully declined He said the
trip would be pleasant one, and the rest would
do me good, and urged me to 60 l still declined
In respectful terms, but decidedly.
In few days | received a letter from him
appointing upon this mission Immediately
wrote him letter, and sent it over to the exec
utive mansion. declining the appointment and
referring to our conversation upon this matter
ga IA wa nc
purpose to get me ont of the way, and was de-
ternined to remain in Washington. Short
ly after this l was sent to attend a
Cabinet meeting. l arrived little
after the time of meeting. and after was seated
Mr.. Seward began tn unfold and read a paper
which proved u be my instructions upon this
4 yery mission l arose from my chair and ASK ed
the Secretary to suspend reading when | said
Mr.. President you once. in conversation. said
you desired me to go this expedition, and then
sasnac tfullu daclinad AftarMard me-