The clarion. [volume] (Jackson, Miss.) 1883-1888, 1884-05-14

r. immersed in some kind Of air, for otlae
D. wise We could not live. But the Apc
II ties were not immersed either in 81
:; filed with water, nor in cold air. 30 f
I, Is we know They were baptized |
p the ont-pouring of the Holy Spirit, az
D there is not one particle Of evidence III;
Is they were buried or even covered owe
III Hoa must, however, have a burial in d
70 vine influence on that occasion, and d
Ie Carson must have "a burial in seiad an
IS IRE" Might | ask why this diiferenc
e between two such prominent leaders!
# nave heard OF other Baptist minister
J. burying them in sound on that da,
. How are we ever to become Baptists b
! such teaching as this? We shall site
5 to the record, aud believe with all GU
t hearts, that there was baptism BY tn
& pouring out of the Holy Spirit, Just a
t there was a-baptism of Elijah's altar b
D pouring upon it twelve buckets of water
5 which 0rigen said were poured upol
e the victim on the altar, because it need
ed to be cleansed. There were othe
learned Greeks that said the same. Blu
: you say the netting of the altar wa
j called baptism by Origen and Basil. I
J was not the .setttRg but the CLEANSING d
the altar that these Greek scholars called
baptism, and that cleansing was by
pouring. Surely, my good brother. you
have not come to the belief that a ,eeftinc
is baptism? If se, why do YOU object
to our sprinkling and pouring?
You now tell me that these men never
used literal meaning if they could fancy
another. Is not this extravaganza
Did these men have good sense or solid
learning? Did they understand their
mother tongue or not? Does Mr.. Gam
brell know more about the Greek Ian
| guage than 0rigen and Basil Magnus i?
If drunken baptism can be effected
by drinking wine, why cannot a cleans,
| ing baptism he effected by pouring
water? This is the very place where
want you to apply what you call the
very heart of the Greek word and show
us a bRgi'g or even an immersion, or
else admit that Origen knew more about
Greek than you do. You say they are
| unreliable as Interpreters, but we are not
consulting them as interpreters, but
whether baptism can be effected by
pouring. and they say it can, and they
give us an example You say it cannot.
Which shall be believed?
We have had baptisms by pouring
and sprinkling ever since the Christian
era began at least The Jews used the
word baptism for all their cleansings
long before that. Now let me ask Mr.
Gambrell if he ever knew of any Greek
scholar from the first, and till near the
middle of the seventeenth century, deny
ing that ritual baptism could be effected
by the sprinkling or pouring of water
upon the subject, because of the meaning
of the Greek word? If this word does |
not admit of such baptisms now it did |
not when the Greek was living Ian
guage. In asking this question | have
the case of Novatiam, and the practices
Of the Greek and Roman Churches be. /
fore me. Mr.. Editor, if you know of /
any such objections solely on dccOuat Of
the meaning Of the word, and you will
kindly point them out, | will be
obliged to you.
s. You are right IN thinking that the
passages in Rom. Ga and Col. PIP may
be interpreted by some as baptism by
the Holy Spirit 1t not only may be-
but is, in fact claimed that Paul speaks
of that which is the only real baptism,
of christianity.
There is not one drop of water men
toned in these passages, rs you will adj
mit. If YOU get it there you will intro
duce it by an Unauthorized inference of
your own. Il is about introducing
water into these passages that Carson
to send the angel Gabriel to
school if he objected to it, And yet he
says, 1T is faith that buries us
truly into Christ's death" and this is
true But is faith burial? 1t must be
if baptism is burial, for the one is a
burial no more than the other.
There are two things remarkable in
your treatment of these passages. One
is that if water is entitled to a place in
hem you did not at once proceed and
supply the ellipeis, thereby giving it
place therein. And now ask you to be
sure to do this in your reply, for if
water ought to be in them by right, you
can show us how it appears. Your
readers will look for this with deep in
terest.
The other remarkable thing is your gar
bled quotation of these passages especially
that in Romans, which is the fuller
statement. l do not charge that you do
this Intentionally. Paul says: "Or
are you ignorant that all we who were
baptized into Christ Jesus were bap
tized into his death? We are buried
therefore with him through bapti sm
into death; that like as Christ was raised
from the dead through the glory of the
Father, SO we also might walk in new
ness of life New Version. The Apos-
tie proceeds then to state that our ''old
man was crucified with him. etc.
On these passages ! make the follow
ing remarkes. /
l. Whoever is baptized into Christ {
into his death, has newness of life. But
many who have been dipped into water I
have no newness of life; therefore dip {
ping into water is not baptism into
Christ, nor baptism into death. Simon I
Magus, you think, was dipped, but he
was not baptized into Christ.
2. Baptism into Christ introduced
into Christ, brings the soul under the
power of the sin-remitting influence of
his death. "If any man be in Christ he
IS a new creature, ETC., 2 Cor, 5 Il.
Whoever is really baptized by the Holy
Spirit is baptized in the sight of God
and no other is. All the oceans
On earth gould not confer the real hap
tism of Christ upon asingle soul no mat
ter in what form water is used.
3. The baptism in this scriptur is
into Christ, into bis death and not into
lOater It is change of condition from
IN unregenerate, into regenerate state
Dr. condition, and dipping cannot do this.
4 In the first six verses of this
chapter the believer is represented as
having been co-cruaified, co-buried and
so-riSen with Christ. The cruciixion
1f the old man is spiritual; the burial
Of the old man is spiritual, for in the
language of Origen, nothing living is
ever buried" But Baptists profess to
bury the living. The resurrection in
this connection is spiritual, for Paul
says it is by faith, Col. 2l2. When
Christ was buried in the Toek-hewn sep
ulcher his neople were buried with him.
8. All real ChTistIans, whether Bap
fist or Pedo baptist, have been crueiied /
with Christ, buried with Christ and
raised with Christ. Now as this is the
case with Christian Pedo-baptists who
have never been dipped in water, din
ping in water Is not burial Nth Christ.
s. 1t Was only when the fathers IN
the third and fourth centuries came to
e0lfound real with ritual baptism, that
they reckoned dipping in water as burial
with Christ. Hence Eyprian said, For
neither can the Spirit operate without
the water, nor the water without The
Spirit Could not wates atfogd dip
ping, a coyetiR3oYeF without the Spirit
ISleny that the fathers ever held that
the baptism of Christ was a dipping or
an immersion Of any sort in mere va
ter. Cyprian held that the water issssf +
had to be baptized before i could bap-
tie anybody. Thetefore Patristic dip
ping was not ratristic baptism. Hence
they universally admitted the validity /
of sprinkling Or pouring a a mode Of /
baptism.
81 And now ast0 the great Iedo- baptists /
whom You profess to array against me,
uravs - xs1.1s n So nj r,f - a IL, fsret ar