National Republican., 1883-06-22
THE PHILADELPHIA FRAUDS.
Continuation Of the Search For Them Under
Mr.. MurCh's Guidance.
Chairman New Tells Mr. Coleman How
to Get Up an Interest in the Matter.
Mr.. Murch Sharply OrOss-E1amined as 10 His Long
Delay in Making Complaint
mr.. Hin Under ExaminAtion-The Shutter
Controversy.

1O:3O yesterday morning. Mr.. Coleman asked
to be furnished with all contracts made by
the United States for fire proof shutters.
Chairman Now replied that the requisition
was too general and must be made more spe-
cifc.
Mr.. Coleman. II they will furnish us with all
the coutraots we can readily see what we want
without letting them know in advance just what
we propose 10 do. When the prosecution is COM
PEELED to depend upon the defense for their papers
Is pretty difficult matter to specify in advance
the particular papers that may be required, par
ticularly as in some instances we do not know
what papers are in existence.
Chairman New then adverted to the state
ment of counsel made Wednesday in regard to
the conduct of this investigation, and char
acterZed any statement that the committee
is giving tho investigation half-hearted
support, or is disposed to impede it, as abso-
lutely untrue.
MIR. Coleman. No such statement was made
What said was TO show that the administration
Is not Offering or affOrdng any assistance in the
prosecution of this investigation which is being
carried on at the expense Of private individuals,
and is In great contrast with the spirit shown in
tine prosecution of the star route cascs did not
intend nor do desire to reflect upon this com.
mittee, who are doing all In their power to fur
ther this investigation aud are aiiording us every
facility
Mr.. New You are as familiar as any Of us with
the laws regulating the disbursements of funds by
the Treasury department, and you know that we
have no money either TO pay witness or attorneys
fees. IL you should 30 before the grand jury aud
would have every encouragement from the ad-
ministration TO which you nllude, and the depart
ment of Justice would assume the expense of q
prosecution but in this case 1t is totally different.
Mr.. Murch then took the stand for cross
examination,
Witness was in the habit, while employed
at Philadelphia, Of signing the pay roll just
as others did, but never bad an opportunity
to see the headings. Was paid by the con-
tractor. Witness could not swear as to how
m baVa hpan nrI0
upon any one stone. He was perfectly sure
that under the Is per cent. contracts men
were employed. much longer upon certain
work than was necessary.
@. What do l understand by that "A. l
am unable to say what your understanding
is, but that is what said.
@. When you were foreman and gave in
structions to your men to consume so much
time--as you now say, more than was neces-
sary-upon certain work. were you not aware
that fraud was being committed "A. was
not my business was with the contractor,
and | worked under instructions. | knew
that fine work was to be done and that
liberal amount of time was being given.
q. Were you so innocent that you did not
then understand that some one was being
swindled?-A. ] acknowledge that was in
nocent 1 now know that frauds were being
committed. At that time knew nothing of
the nature of the contracts | was perform
ing my duty, and, as 1 always do. minding
my own business.
O. And you were helping to commit these
frauds, were you IA. Do you mean TO
say If you hire man to do days work and
tell him he need not work hard-do you
think he would be committing fraud?
Mr. Thomas. You are asking the question
yourself; you may answ or it. l am not on
the witness stand.
Witness. Very well, wish you were. /
will answer it myself then. l do not con-
slider 1t fraud.
q. What were the inducements held out by
the contractors to the men to assist them in
perpetrating these frauds PA. No induce
ments. The men themselves were swindled
Q. Who do you represent before this COM
mittee?-A. L. ii. Murch alone. And wish
to say, and have it go on tho minutes, that
the statement attributed to Mr. Hill that
am being paid by the stonecutters is absoss
lutely false.
Q. Then you are here purely to perform q
patriotic duty. When did your conscience
become awakened to tho necessity of expos
ing these frauds "A In 1877, when / becam o
aware of the gross frauds which were being
perpetrated, felt that they should be ex-
posed and am here wholly on my own re-
sponsibility TO perform public duty.
q. lsnot your only reason for attempting
to connect Mr.. Hill with these frauds the fact
that he was n member of the commission be-
fore which you appeared, and that the COM
mission refused to listen to your demands p
A. That is true. The fact that he was men,
ber of the commission, that he was made
aware of the frauds, and still persisted in his
course, is my reason for connecting him with
the frauds.
@. DO you not know that if Mr.. Hill had
acceded to your demands il would have re
suited in breaking all existing contracts, and
would have compelled the government to fin
ish its buildings with totally different kind
of grsniteY-A. 1 know nothing of the kind.
i know that there were twenty quarries on
the coast of Maine, owned and controlled by
separate parties, who were then furnishing
granite, and could and would have furnished
the same quality of granite both in texture
and appearance, as that which was then being
used
Q. You assume that, do QUA. assume
nothing. | know it and affirm IT,
q. III the 10 per cent. contracts had been
abrogatei, would not the government have
been compelled to pay the prices which your
stonecutters would have demanded PA, We
offered to do the work for SO per day, and Mr.
Hill, under the modified contracts, paid $3.50
q. You have been member of congress
have you ever spoken in congress ON this sub,
jeetS have frequently alluded to it. =
Mr.. Thomas Quoting from witness specch) }.
You say am familiar with nearly every
public building In this country from personal
inspection" Now is that strictly true?-
Well, no; not strictly so In the literal sense
in which you wish to take it, am familiar
with many of them.
O. Then you did not tell the truth did you
Mr.. Coleman. Did you ever know II gress
man to make speech that was literally true
Laughter.
Tho cross-examinatiOn was pursued to great
length. Witness sa.d tho greatest frauds upon
the Philadelphia building were perpetrated at.
tor ii III became supervising architect and after
superintendent had been put in charge by
the architects office. This superintendent
was totally incompetent and permitted the
grossest frauds, yet he is in the employ of the
architects office. In reply to question by Mr.
Coleman, witness said his ground of complaint
against Mr. Hill was that after having his at.
tention called to the gross frauds which were
pelng pei putIated AZ. Hill still wept ahead
and made the modified contracts based upon
the fraudulent and excessive rates which had
been paid under the 10 per cent. contracts
This concluded the examination of Mr.
Murch.
Mr.. New submitted the views of the com
mittee as to the scope of the investigation
and said In determining the question sub
mitted at the last meeting of the committee
as TO the Importance and relevancy OF tn,
testimony then offered to be submitted viz
in regard to the st. Louis, Cincinnati, Hart,
ford, and other public buildings-and that OF
the workmen now at Quincy, Mass.-it would
be we'll TO consider the scope and nature o
the inquiry this committee is called upon tC
make.
The foundation of this inquiry was laid in
a speech made by the Hon. r. II. Murch IN
the house of representatives, in which hG