Daily globe. [volume] (St. Paul, Minn.) 1878-1884, 1882-04-25

Q What actually was written ] have T.
pleasure OF presenting to the committee.
In the Peruvian and Gillian papers VIII;
6 were sent to congress only these papers WEI
sent which seemed pertinent TO the inquiry
and they have been already published, bu
these two envelopes ('ayipg down two larg
{ official envelopes on the tabe) contain every
thing that passed between Hurlbut and my
self. They include all which have, twenty
1 six or twenty-seven In number, and are give
in full, but there are q few of Hnrlbut's whic
we give by very full syllabus, so that the en-
tire correspondence is here, and desire Il
leave It with the committee. Everything tina
ing his mission TO Lima is included in thes
two envelopes. / wrote note to the stat
department. ard got these papers in reply
They are merely as to such trihing matters a
letting Hurlbut know he may have his station
in certain way, or that he may 60 on TIL
"Alaska" from Panama.
Shipherd came and stated to me that he wa
the representative of a very important CLAIM
against Peru, known rs the Cochet claim; o
which at that time 1 had never heard. dlt
not know its name and l asked him how
It was spelled. I had never heard the wore
before In my life.
He went or to state that 1t was very i'm
portant matter. He did not say 1t belonged &c
The Peruvian company. He said he was Il;
chief agent: that Senator Blair was one oil
his active counsel; that ex-senator Boutwell,
whose opinion he had in his pocket, and which
he offered to show me, wa. one OF his active
ex Senator Conkling IN. 7, were OF his cour.
sci; that Scott Lord was one of his counsel;
and think he also mentioned the name of
Mr.. Robertson as one Of his counsel. He Ger
| tainly did mention the name OF ex-senator
Cragin IN. ~
Kssson-Was that at the first interview?
| Baine-The very first. thought 1t was .
very formidable array OF counsel. He stated
| that the men who STOOD behind the claim as
New York. he specified several of them by
name. He specified E D. Morgan, seligman
& Co., and, think, August Belmont. He
mentioned dozen names and made great
display of strength, both SIS to counsel and
for the claim and es to the ownership of it.
mention this er-passant. have been criti-
cised for not Eendibg Shipherd out OF my
house on the first occasion he came there, but
I will say to the committee that gentleman
United States senator, having three
United States ex-senators for coun-
sci, an ex secretary of the treasury for
counsel, and August Belmont, A. D. Morgan
and Seligman & Co., Co partners, Is not man
That I or YOU would naturally kick out of our
house at the first sight of him, [Laughter,1
and so beg to be excused FOR not performing
the duty which, three or four months after
wards, 1practicslly did on further Informal
ton.
He went on and told me of the claim. He
spoke of it's vastness, its value, It's strength
and its integrity. said to him "Mr. Ship
herd after all you disclose OF the claim, of
which know nothing, you make out no case
for the intervention of this government"
We argued this point for some time.
said "your case comes to Tsductto dd GbSur
dim. If you think you can take claim of a
Peruvian citizen and secure the intervention
of the United States government by selling a |
portion Of it to American citiGens, then you |
could go over to England aud sell a portion |
to English subjects; you could go Germany |
and sell portion to German subjects; you |
could go to France and sell portion to |
French citizens; and thus you could get Eng
land, Germany, France and the United States
all to intervene against Peru and probably get
her to do something
He said: "You do not understand this"
told him I did not. He said: "The case
here is not claim at all; it is property. What
would you say if an American citizen owned
/ block of stores IN Lima, or great planta-
ion or hacienda that had been cultivated, and
owned it in fee-aad that an attem t were
n ade to dispossess him of il; would not that
make case for interventiOn?'
l said, "that would alter the ease" II
ecollect, his testimony breaches little on
his very idea. but he does not give 1t in full.
He said: THAT is case which 1 present
o YOU" and he read to me the opinions of
svsris. One Of them he read and one of
hem he quoted, Evarts' opinion being as fol
Ows: "If Cochet was the d.scoverer Of the
yuano his discovery vested in him the title to
'ne-thrd of all the gnano in Peru, and he may
It his option claim one third of each heap or
ny her equitable !. one,shird OF the total
f Chill attempts to resist Cochet's demand
or his own she docs but make herself iimme.
lately and directly liable FOR the whole debt"
He quoted still more strongly an opinion
which he afterwards brought TO light in
etter fiam Camacho to Anzoua. But instead
# that letter being translated from Spanish
nto English, venture TO make the assertion
hat it was Shepherds original composition,
nd that it was translated into Spanish by
;amacbo.
I said "lf this be your case, that you have
ctuai ownership of property in Peru; of
curse that would present different case;
ut don't credit it. This seems TO me to be
claim"
He said: "Ask for report upon it. Do that
or me-" said: "a claim that has such re-
pectable counsel as you have, so strong an
rray of ownership as you have, certainly will
INQUIRE into. have no objection to that. That
lvolves nothing and commits the government
o nothing. That was on the Goth OF July. A {
~ or two afterwards [ called the attention Of
'rescott, who was then assisting IN some {
matters at the department, especially as to |
outh America, to it, We had been before
hat talking about the Landreau claim, with {
'hich l had been familiar from its having {
cen before congress, and requested Prescott !
D prepare a dispatch 10 Hurlbut and to in q
lude an inquiry 10 him for report on the
tstus of the claim called the Cochet claim. J
"Hurlbut, who knows everything In diplo. {
lacy in connection with these South Ameri-
an countries, Will know about the Cochet
aim," and Prescott and 1 have on this sheet
paper with printed extracts pasted on it(
very word that ever passed between the state |
.partment aud Hurlbut about the Coehet 8
aim. :
After an introduction saying the matter has
cen submitted to the department here, / say
urlbut. I'm reference to the Cochet claim s
lere has been no information laid before the +
apartment of sufficient definite character to d
arrant specific instruction, and In The alb c
.nce Of the requisite data here, you will be v
1T to take such steps as may seem expedient v
/ investigating the origin and character of v
le claim. The principal point at issue is Il
neither any AmerlcSu Clti1eu Ut assoCia- |
on Of citizens has acquired any {
terest in the claim in the manner emitting y
i'm or them to good Offices of this govern. t
ent, in making any representation to Peru.
s the American holders of the claim or their
torney's will be be on the ground. lShip-
erd had said that at least two of his counsel c
ould Immediately proceed to Peru.] You a
i'll no doubt be placed in possession of all S
lie facts, but you will take no step commit =
opf 60 ha Nfi Ia |
fces without first reporting in full TO the
.partment for well considered and definite in
ructi6n."
On the 14th OF September Hurlbut re- a
led:
SIR: acknowledge the receipt of your dispatch, y
o 7, dated August =, 1881, in relation to certain
sged claims upon the government of Peru, as to d
Q Coohet claim. This legation has nothing but
que and sweeping statements, better adapted to h
eating a commercial enterprise than to any judi a
Is. II 49, <w-z -aI /