New-York tribune., 1882-04-09
cUIpHERD'S EXAMINATION


n.nors AGAINST MINISTER HuRlno' -.
WASHINGTON, April Sine eAana ,uu notorc the
% shpherd was resumed this morihns V,ls 49,, oc
Jaeoo =, on Foreign Affairs the char peins
ho"'. - ,ho rcgular chairman. MT "llia - w,
cup'.u "a tho examination being conduo". s,h b,s
So ., Massachusetts,. Mr. Rice pro'e''
examination follows: s..rct,rv Blaine that
N Have you any letters lrou' - -, ,.fore the cou
No, included In the printed volume nordence be-
are ho. '.' Thave not The entire correspondent
mitteef Al N"' r,,no and myself appears 10 10
f"ech ,h;s volume cxcept "' "
prnteo ~ N. which intended as d"
~ On Mr. Blaines letter oi "oooioU -, hin c,v,,
shsN., to Governor Boutwell, 10 oe oS 'i
was sun" ~ ,,me 10 the Secretary OF state eh-oncio'
Of the proper ' ,,,t IN evidence and read 1t is long
'". ,bo wrtt,r tshpherd) from the secretary
anu ro,nst him Of attempting to brbe Minister
Uurlbut. ,.. ., rocomher was
rho vitnes,-Mr Blaine's letter o' Dccc"ioei was
m secretary Of state. This letter was written 10
$50 enrescntatve the Secretary OF eta'e' " 'o '
,, delivered to the Secretary OF state III oue co"so
The chairnan--WIth 'he l"'e"''" '"'' "
communicated to hml
Tho ujtness-Wth the intention that IL shOui' NC
.,a,r, 70 the Secretary of State, whether MT
plaiue or Mr.. Frchnghuysen' or whoever
,nirh, he did not know then who 1t would be.
Mr. Ricc-You have stated in your testimony that you
,d interviews with Mr Blaine october Ia, Novem-
1er
49,, testified 10 I'm July and that those were the only
,,nrv-cws Won had with him You have given US all
,he correspoudence between yourself ana Secre"i!
blame now give the subject OF your cohNeiSa'"n Win
mir, on October H. aud detail that cOnvcrsauoh-"ne'e
,ros II how DID 1t come about and who we're present.
Tho wtuess-I have Intended to state tha' theSe
oo.s were the only dates at which had ntervlewsWt
, secretary Of state but that they were approximate
do,es from the memoranda which preserved
and which are not quite complete iheHe a'o
opproxima,ey the dates at when n"u 'n'o
views. and | think they represent twlth possibly
single cxccptonl all the interviews that had WIN INC
secretary NV impression is that was with MIN on
the evening Of October l3, and that was Win ann
ogaip at the state Department On October ii. lhat
recollection is connected with some data when VIII ap
pear ia due c0nrsc My recollection concerning 'ne III
teryiew OF October seems at he moment TO DC over
laid in my memory with occurrences when TOOK pace
m or about the Sd Of November and about which sha'
endeayor TO be as precise possible just possible
,h some of these two conversations may become inter
,n,xed as 10 date When received General bnrlDuts
letter saving that he had received no sneh dis-
MATCHES as l wrote TO him had Dceh sent
sept at once for Senator Blair. sent Tor
him for This reason After the retainer OF Senator
Hair had been definitely arranged he said to me tua'
ne ,od f and very satisfactory conference with the
Secondary of State and that at that conference the
Secretary had assured him.
Mr. Rice dnterruptng)- 1 call your attennoh 10 the
fact that you are now entering upon conversation
which y0n had with Senator Blair az yourcounseL fon
recognize that If you give details the cohVersa
ton you will open It up for crossexamnation
The vtiness-I propose state what Senator Blair as
my representative did with the Secretary Of State do
not propose 10 enter generally either in direct or ind
rect way. into all that may have passed
between and my, counsel. mean
10 cQnfne myself in testlfying now, as far as pos
tibe what passed between me and the secretary OF
State whether directly or intermediately Ia testify
uhat sscdi
testify that part of it which came within my personal
knowledge The committee will know how TO supple
ment that testimony by calling another witness. Sena-
tor Blair told that the Secretary OF state had assured
hm that nothing going ino' or gong Tu' U or
imght affect our interests. should be withheti
,"% T"nld "p personay communcatS ali the important
facts Senator Blair TO be by him communicated to
The chairman I wonld like TO know when this con
yersaton in relation to your interviews oil october
The witncssI shoud say that this statement of Sem
aor Blair occurred time in the early part OF
August In connection with that, ana thihk at the
interview, lie SAID 20 me that very soon alter
ward within few days Il think four five days. after
my interviews OF july 70 and 20, the secretary sent
for MIN Senator Blair and read to him draft OF "A
cover S5'Ff''" the ground Which the Secretary
Lad promised me should be covered: Senator
aud that Secretary OF State promptly made them He
then reminded the Secretary that had requested that the
substance of the Instructions shOu!d be sent by cable
The Secretary said Certainly, if you wish shat il shall
be doue" Two or three days later as Senator Blair IN
formed e the Secretary again sent for hn aud read TO
hun finished draft, revised according to the amend
ment suggested by senator alr i0r dspA 10 90 Dy
words 20 by cable. Senator B!ars comment to lne
was "Shpherd you had written he dispachcsy yourself
they conld not have petcy covered the ground
than these dispatches covered IT, especially the cable
Dispatch that was more incisivc decisive than the
mail dispatch" This conversation was carly IN August
few days afterwards saw the Senator again (he was
~ The interview in which he reported lis having heard
these drafts read said to him; Now have these been
cent e. "Why, certainly said he, they have been
tcnt" "Weu," said excuse my anxiety, certainly
have question TO the sccrearys good faith. but
these matters are often left TO subordinates
VIII you he good enough 10 ascertain absolutely
whether the dispatches were sent" lie said Ger
tsnly few DAYS iateI be told me that he Secretary
sai to hun that both these dispatches had been sent
~thOut the change Of word. the day that they we're
rcah 10 hin and that DAY was the "a oi August now,
when General llubut wrote 20 me that he bad received
such dispatches had ch1racteZcd IL my letters,
sent immediately for senator Blalr. ! sAld TO MN
" What does this mean have not seen these dis
patches know nothing about them except what you
have told me- He e'inced very hVe% interest III Ihe
matter and said with some warmth: "Ins touches ny
veracty or that Of the Secretary OF state Eltber
have misrepresened 70 yon or he nas msrepreSeGled
y me that the dispatches were as have characterized
Hgrlbut and Will undertake 10 set this matter right
TWO BRIEF INTERVIEWS.
little further on ne suggested that should to
Washington. and that the dispatches should be shown to
BE. Pursuant TO that cOnVersIOn and III that order of
evens came Washington. arriving here the 10Th
OF the 18th of My recollection the
II vague IN relation what may have passed IN the
Nersaion between The Secretary and myself romcm
S.,.-t. .N-''N nuch OccuIcf anu tbdt inc
N'erNiew was rather brief when senator Blair sug
sesied 70 hm that General HurlbJt had written aud
-" he secretary SAID, Why, satisfy Mr. SbIpherd
pn t"S. Pont very readily. Meet me tomorrow 0at |
wa tlnk The ith Al II o'clock state Depart
nin' hr sbipheld and you can see the dispatches that
Mr. iace-Ths vas Substantially al that took place |
tween on al that Interview
is ms cOnSersatiOn took place at the
a. 'y no' eii-rr on the evening Of ths 18Th or on
ie moiinS Of the IAN Of October. Ny present
Iecton s that there two interviews the one in the
o. enlag for perhaps hour and the other In he morn
min
It's f~F' '""'' '""'
Nr Rce-llave yon stated substantially all that took
pace at Tie first interview
Ihe wltuess-NO, Sir. ] win come TO that ia another
eOlucccn Wish merely 10 pursue this topic IN refcr-
elce TO the dispatches went the state Department
next day at II O'clock and found the Secretary there