The National tribune. [volume] (Washington, D.C.) 1877-1917, 1882-07-29

The debate which occurred in the Senate on
the 10Th inst. apropos of an amendment which
Mr.. Beck offered to the Pension bin was one of
the most interesting and instructive that has
ever taken place in that body upon the subject
of PENSIONS and for the information of our
readers we present below a carefully-ptcparcd
digest of the discussion. In erder that the cir
cumstauCcs which led to the debate may be
fully understood, itshould be stated that among
the amendments to the Pension bill as reported
from the Committee on Appropriations was one
requiring the Secretary Of the Interior to trans
nit to Congress, at the beginning of each reg
ular session. classified list of all pensioners on
the rolls, with their post-oficc address, amount
Of pension annually paid to each, and state
ment Of those dropped from the rolls or added
thereto each year. This amendment was agreed
to in Committee chiefly to meet any reasonable
demand that Senator Beck and others of his
way of thinking could make for further safe
guards against fraud, but it failed to satisfy
the Senator from Kentucky, and when it was
reached, in the course Of the regular considera-
tion of the bill, he offered an additional amend
ment, (the full text Of which we printed in our
last issue,) in substance requiring the Commits
sl0ner of Pensions to post at every post office a
list of the pensioners residing in that county,
with the annual and total payments to each,
and a general request for information concern
ing the justice of the same, and, in addition, to
advertise the list at least once year in GER
tain number of newspapers in each locality.
The point of order was made against this, as
against the Committee amendment, that it Was
new legislation, and therefore not germane to
the bill, and both were finally ruled out, but
pending this action Mr.. Beck was permitted to
address the Senate in support Of his proposition
Said he:
I know Of no mode that viii be so efficient in
obtaining positive information concerning
pension frauds as to have lists of the pension
crS presented before the people among whom
they live. | assume further, that no soldier
that the widow of no soldier, that the children
I of no soldier will feel any humiliation, any
degradation, in having a list published such as
] propose; nor viii they imagine that they are
suspected Of any dishonesty by having the fact
that they are pensioners on the Government
or claimants for pensions ayowed in the face of
the world. We publish to-day a Blue Book
which contains the name of every person in
office who draws dollar from the Government.
There is not a man in any county in any
State IN the Union who does the humblest SER
vice for the county court, who when he goes
before the court aud gets his money Kas not his
name published by the county, with a state
ment of the amount paid him and what it is
paid tor. The pensiOner of the Government,
when his name is published and the amount
he receives, and the service he rendered, with
a statement of the honorable wounds that he
bears, or the disease he contracted while en-
deavoring to serve his comntrv that 1nag. '.ts
wife, and his children 4Rtaau,tF Cl
humiliation or degradation -viuaEa done.
* pl Of --a q
seek to avoid publication sea'y ot-cat
the information that we ~ slfi.sll
in the city of Louisville . 2e 9asrrjs
tion from very intelligt I.5--.s 30 3.
to-day drawing pensiOna wa. attlt -4iuafs
of pension, a one-armed man. He was a soldier
who lost an arm in a disreputable brawl in
disreputable place, and the surgeon who cut Off
/ his arm, if my amendment passes, viii tell the
| Commissioner where he lost it, how he lost it,
and that he cut it of in that very PLACE.
Mr. LOGAN. Why does he not tell him now?
Mr. BECK Because he is neither spy nor
an informer. Make it legal to furnish such in
formation, and see what the result will be. L
/ have letters in my possession from men in II
linois and in Ohio and in New Hampshire and
all over the country, asking me for information
as to whether this man, that man. and the
! other is drawing pension, because If they are,
and they believe they are, the proof Is abund-
/ ant that they are not entitled to them. have
a letter in my desk from colonel of one of the
Kentucky regiments, as brave 4 man as was in
the Federal Army
Mr. BLAIR Any one of the Senator's cor
respondents could ascertain that fact by ad-
dressing the Commissioner of Pensions.
Mr.. BECK. ] do not know whether he could
or not, or whether he knows that he could or
not; but if you will publish the lists of the
pensioners and the claimants-fOr they are
quite as important as the men who are draw
ing pensions, and 10000 or 10000 OF them
( have sprung 10 the front since the arrears
ofpensi0n act was passed who never thought
they were entitled TO pensions until that great
sum was given to them-the nelghborS Will
know who is applying, and they will know the
merits Of the case. 1t is as important to stop
fraudulent claims as it is to develop those al
| ready passed Of a fraudulent nature De
pendent relatives" is very wide class. The
widows Of soldiers who have married again and
do not tell of it, because if they did their PEN
siOns would be forfeited, form also largo
class. The ncighbors know, and the neighbors
| will tell, and if you make it the law that they
! shall have the right to tell the Commissioner,
he will know that Sally Jones was married at
. such time and still draws q pension rs q
widow. If pcnsiOner is not in fact n depend
ent relative Of a soldier rs he claims TO be, that
can be told. If any frauds have been perpc-
trated, they will be told. In the face of the
/ present condition of things | am not going to
say a word about the arrears-Of-pension act. l
said some unkind things about that act once,
and was called to task sharply enough by the
Senator from Kansas. Perhaps the language |
then used was not altogether proper; but what
/ want now is a law that Will enable the Com
| missioner to obtain information that will, en-
able him to prevent frauds being perpctrated on
the Government
Mr.. Beck went on to quote from eX-Commis-
sioner Bentley's reports attacking the present
system of proving claims, and then proceeded
to state what he conceived to be the difficulty
about our present legislation. Said he in con-
| clusion:
! desire to say in addition, that from tho
! information | have, no set of men will be rs
earnest and Jealous in giving information to the
| Commissioner of Pensions or to any agent that
| hc may send as the very best soldiers who
| fought IN the Federal Army. | have q letter in
my desk from, think, the brlvcst man in
eastern Kentucky, one Of the most gallant SOL
diers, in which he stated to me that if the
names were given all through his regoin of
! country where he knew them, and from all
! West Virginia, nc could save this Government
| $25O,OO0 year by having fraudulent eases
| looked into that he himself would know about.
This IS cheap and easy way Of going at it.
MR.. PLUME REPLIES.
Senator Plumb, of Kansas, was the first to
reply to Mr.. Beck. His remarks were caustic
and to the point. He began by saying that the
| Senator from Kentucky was interested simply