National Republican., 1881-12-10

that he had great desire for publicity.
The Prisoner-That is false. | got along with
Shaw first rate for six or eight months; but after
that, began TO go behind In my rent for six
months, aud he began TO prick up his ut that.
II you owe him $40 he will dog The life out Of you
Alter owed him $50 he thought was an awful
The wituess-Ie said to me once that he was
bound TO be notorious before he died.
The Prisoner-I never said so.
The Wilncss-I asked bin what he meant by
that, and he said II he could not get notorlety for
good he would get IL for evil
The Prisoner-That is false.
Tho Witness-Of course that surprised me, aud
asked him what he meant. He said he would
shoot some of our big men.
The Prisoner-That is a lie, never thought so,
and never said So
Mr. scoyie-I want It tdis,inctly understood that
OIL this evidence Is executed to.
The Witness-IIe said he would initiate wilkes
Booth.
The Prsoner-That is n lie.
The wituess-Sad "and gct hanged for It."
Well" said he, that is an nfler consideration"
did not carry that conversation any further.
-, The Prisoner-1 have not known anythngabout
peats this kind of testimony ! say to him: " You
nre liar low, dirty liar" 1 never had that
know il. You claim to be a a good churchmian,
too. That story is Iulsehood from beginning to
end, aud you are sncaking lior. That is my
opinion of you. | will publish you all over the
world, and when you go back to New York you
will be the laughing stock Of your friends.
like you to State nll about il in detail IL you can
not do that you stand condemned as liar.
The District Attorney-ilave you given the
whole conversation ON that occasion?
The Witncss-So far as recolect.
a DcsIre TO initiate WILKES Booth.
The District Attorney-Wherc did that conyer-
sation occur in which he said he intended to imi-
tate wilkes Booth and become nOtoriouSf
The Witncss-1n my Office. 0fcourse cannot
fix the date.
course, you cannot fix the date. you miserable
lying whelp 1 never said SO, and never thought
The witness--The moment heard of the shoot
ing of President Garfield
Mr. scoyllle (nteIruptingl-wait SIR. How
The PrlsOner-1Ie Is no lawyer; he Is petit.
| fogger. lie gets man about New York TO do all
his jury business. lie has not got brains enough
| all his jury business. Shaw used to lie around
and get Patterson TO try all his jury cases, because
| he hOd not brains enough 10 do II himself
The District Attorney-From your observations
| Of the man and from your conversations with him
| had you any question but that he was sane man
The Witness-l meyer had any doubt OF his
The District Attorney-How did you regard him
The Witness-I did not think much ofhim men
| tally Rt that time.
The Prisoner continuing to rail at the wtnessl
Not after owed you $50 After that you could
see no good in me! / have heard OF you running
with women. My wife told me once in Chicago
that you went aud visited her. l am going TO show
| puppy to come here and lie about me In that way.
The Court Severely to the prisoner)-Silcnce
! The Prisoner-He had no right to come here and
| lie about me. That would make anybody mad.
| The lying whelp
The District Attorney-A!ter the prisoner gets
The PrisonereI never had any talk about wilkes
Booth. The whole thing is absolutely false from
The District Attorney-what was his reply to
| your remark rs to his being hanged2
The Witness-He said that would be an after
consideration and that he would get notoriety
| anyhow.
The Prlsoner--I do not care snap about no;
you lie, That settles you. ! viii not condescend
| to notice you again.
The World owes Him Living.
The District Attorney-In your conversation
with him about the watch did he say anything to
! yon about his being bound to get a living?
| The Witness-les, he said that he was bound TO
| get u living anyhow. That the world owed him n
that conversation was in regard to the watch or in
regard to his borrowing money from DR.. Mac
| Arthur
The Prisoner-I never mentioned DR.. MacAr-
| thurs name TO you In any shape or manner.
Amer he borrowed money from DIR. Macarthur,
did he make any remark,to you about that? re-
Did he say that he had "cheated the dominy?"
| No, think not.
he. said he would initiate Wilkes Booth, that he
| did not care IL he was hanged; that his name
| would go throughout the world2
Objected TO and objection sustained on the
| ground that IL was too leading.
The Prisoner (furiously) Is the most bnzen.
faced lie ! ever heard in my life. will tell you
what kind of man Shaw Is. There was Judge
Hawes, of New York. i went TO his Office on
shaw's recommendation, and will ask Judge
4 Hawes that very question.
| Cross examination
When did this conversation about shooting
some one occur? cannot fix the date. II was In
the fall Of 1872, should think.
The Prlsoner-At that time 1 was olicing with
Judge Hswes. That shows you are lying
| Where? Inmy oAlce-59 Liberty street
| How lOng after Guiteau came to your office? He
came the lst Of November 1871 and stayed until
May 1873 This conversation was during the time
he was at my office, after he had been there about
eight or ten months.
Who was present when the conversation oc-
Cured? do not rccOllect.
DO you remember whether any person was pres
ent besides you two2 ! do not think there WINS.
We're you in the habit of entering into general,
miscellaneous conversation with him at that time?
Sometimes we would SIT down in the afternoon
and talk, five had nothing else to do
Can you state anything else that was said IN that
conversation, either by yourself or the prisoner
Can You state what brought on the converse
tou? No.
How was It ended 1 got up and LEFT him.
Why? did not like that kind oftalk.
NOT the Right Sort Of Man To Have Around.
right sort Of q man to have aroundP l don't know.
(ImpaIientlyl,Did you or noty i was one Of
proper innn to have around.
What occurred after that conversation until
May, 1873, between you and him that led you to
desire that he should leave your office? One
reason was that he did not pay his rent.
Was not that the principal reason? No. The
principal reason was that he had clients coming
there To demand money, OF which they said he
hnd dcfrnpded them,
Is sit true TINT yon gave him o Recommendation
10 Judge llawcsY do not think did.
The Prlsoner-That shows you are q liar. That's
all / want To prove.
Do You know where he went AFTER May?
The Prisoner-I went 10 Hawes Office OH your
recommendation. This is the most extraordinary
statement ever heard from amy man in my life
/ always supposed ,yon were my friend at that
time, but you have showed yourself 70 be a con-
summate inekass and liar and william in every
way. want to get this straight before the coun-
try. II Is going all over the world.
Mr.. Scoyille (nngry)-I would like an oppor-
tunity to cross examine the witness.
The PrisOner-l can examine him in two or
three words better than you can in half an hour.
Who was the trst person to whom you related
anybody until after tho assassination.
The Prisoner-You kept 1t 10 yourself That
shows you are liar, you whelp, you.
You didn't think of IL ia your own mind up Ia
the time that President Garfield was shot? idd
Whom did you first inform of itY Some of my
The Prisoner--I Just want to state about Shaw
that went from his office 10 Judge Hawes' Office
j called around TO see Shnw one day, aud he said,
You have TO thank me for that" us much rs "a
say that got into Judge Hawcs 0lIice on his rec
ommendation. That is sufficient answer TO the
stutf he has been talking about
With the consent of the District Attorney Mr..
scOville called TO the stand Judge Granville II.
Hawes, who had been occupying a seat beside
Judge Cox. He did not Tecollect whether tho
prisoner had come into his Office on Mr.. Shaw't
Recommendation or not His managing clerk, II
Il. Ketcham, could tell that
Colonel COrkhill stated that the business of the
present term of the Criminal Court required inn
mediate attention, and he would ask that the case
now on trial be continued till Monday morning AT
eleven o'clock. The Court assented, and said that
the grand and petit juries would have to DO organ
lied first.
| Scenes aad Hncisleata.
The assassin writhes under the showing up OF
his dealings with clients
Guteau to his sister: "You keep still. l don't
want 10 hear anything more from YOU"