Northern Ohio journal. [volume] (Painesville, Ohio) 1872-1896, 1880-06-26
Garfield and Credit MobiIier as Shown
by the Record.


by the Record.
The following is the official record of
the testimony taken before the Credit
Mobilier Investigating Committee, SO
far as the same relates to Mr.. Garfield,
the Republican candidate for the Presi-
dency:
oAKEs AMEs' TESTIMONY.
Jan. 22, 1878. Oakes Ames recalled: -
Question. In regard to Mr.. Garfield, state to
the committee details of transactions between
you and him i'll reference to Credit Mobilier
shares of the Credit Mobiier stock, for which
he paid par and interest. e. -, ..t
O. When did you agree with him for that?
A. That agreement was in December, 1881, or
January, 1865; about that time; about that
time had these conversations with all of them;
| it was all about the same time. If
= state ; what grew out OF ~ a; Id Mrt hnds GaT
belonging to his 81. 900 of stock at 81, making
$776: in June received a dividend in cash on
| his stock of 5000, which left BALANCE due him
of 1929, which paid him: that is all the trans
| action between us; did not deliver him any
stock before or since; that is the only transat'-
| Q. The 1929 which you paid him was the sur
10 be paid for it, par value? A. Yes. sir. He
never had either his Credit Mobilier stock or
he a realized % on the s transaction s was the ssas
Q. see in this statement of the account
with General Garfield charge of SAT: that is in
terest from the July previous, is it2 A. Yes,
sir. -. --.L L .!ts
| Q. And the s776 on the credit side of the ac-
count is the so per cent. bond dividend sold at
.. And the $500 on the credit side is the
| money dividend? A. Yes, sir.
Q. And after you had received these two
| sums, they in the aggregate overpaid the price
| of stock and interest $3s9 which you paid him?
Q. How was that paid? A. Paid in money,
Garfield7 A. 1 presume so; l think did with,
all of them; that is my impression. =. 80. -.
| Q. When you paid him this 5 $780, did you ur-
after paying for his stock7 A. I supposed so;
| @. You did not deliver the certificate OF
stock to him? A. No, sir; he said nothing
q. why did he not receive his certiticate7 A.
| do not know.
tween you and him in the adjustment of these
| accounts? A. onot. ls1H :.
Q. You understood you were the holder of
| these ten shares? A. Yes, sir.
| Q. Did he SO understand it? A. presume
| so. 1t seems to have gone from his mind. how
@. Was this the only dealing you had with
him in reference to any stock? A. think SO;
| @. Was it the only transaction of any kind2
i A. The only transaction. z--...s. fs.5-l...
q. Has that s:s9 ever been paid to your A.
Q. Have you any belief that it ever has2 A.
q. Did you ever loan General GARFIELD $500?
A. Not to my knowledge; except that he calls
Q. You do not call 1t a loan? A. did not
at the time. am willing it should go to suit
Q. What we want to get at is the exact
truth. A. have told You the truth in my
statement.
Q. When you paid him 1929 did he under
stand that he borrowed that money from you2
| A. do not suppose so. tas
Q. Have you any belief now that he sup
posed 50? A. No; only from what he said the
other day. 1 do not dispute anybody. ats
Q. We want your Judgment of the transac-
just as told you. There was but one thin g
about it.
you. You did not suppose that you had any
+. right to it, or any claim to it? A. No, sir.
1 @. You regarded that as money belonging
to him after the stock was paid for? A. Yes
4 Q. Did General Garfield ever receive these
bonds? A. No, sir; never has received but
Q. And that he has receive Il as his own moneys
A. / suppose so; it did not belong to me.
should not have given it to him it it had moi
Q. You did'not understand it to belong te
| you as a loan; you never called forit and have
never received it back? A. No, sir. lstla
Q. Has there been any conversation betweeI
you and him in reference to the Pacific stoci
Q. Has he ever called for it? A. No, sir. =
g. Have you ever offered1t to hlmf A No
Q. Has there been any conversation in rela
Q. Has there ever been anything said be
tween you and him about resembling the pur
| chase of the ten shares of Credit Mobiliel
stock? Has there anything been said to you
of its being thrown up or abandoned or surren
1ered? A. No, sir, not until recently.
/ @. How recently2 A. Since this matter came
Q. Since this investigation commenced2 A
o. Did you consider at the commencement
of this investigation that you held these othe
him, in his behalf? Did you regard yourself a
custodian of these dividends for him? A. Yes
sir; he paid for his stock and is entitled to hi
Q. viii the dividends come to him at an.
time on his demands2 A. Yes, sir; as soon a
. o. You say 1923 was paid to him; how wa
it paid? A. presume by check on the Ser
who they were for.
this dividend was paid, with him in regard t.
this mattera A. do not know what matte
= o. IF YOU had any correspondence betwee1
you would like to see it.. A. 1 have no cop.
|, o. Have you the original2 A. No, sir
Mr.. Garfield showed me letter which he sai'
he Intended to inclose with some money sen
i from. He showed me a letter which he said b.
intended to have put in. 1 indOrsed on tn
& tha eep @ Wrote
back of it. and let him have 1t. 4lsl Lad as
@. Your answer indorsed on the back of tn
| letters was published in the newspapers? "A
Yes, sir. He published the letter, l believe. L
Q. AS published did they correspond wit
Yes, sir. 1 wrote it off hastily. He came t
my room and said he had been accused of al
kinds Of crimes and misdemeanors toll
| him had made no such statement as b
. | represented He wanted me to say in writin
that had tnndsd not to took h.I his Letter. which
: money, and wrote ON the back of it that Iha
! made no such statement.
l @. The published correspondence IN tn
, lection Of what occurred2 A. 1t agrees wit
, my recollection, except that he says he left
| letter for me at the Arlington. 7 never re
ceived that letter. only saw the letter O.
!, | which indorsed my answer.
q u0OnPv2 :
8 money came to me inclosed in an envelope
which he said he had sent. gave it back t
him. EsI4-- iii IA tl5Etys .31t5 .sst t.s.j 81
s Q. How much money was in that envelope
r A. Four hundred dollars. f'*' ~ - i5- %
/ The following memorandum referre,
/ / to by witness as statement of his &C
4 count with Mr.. Garfield was placed il
: evidence:
LII LA Gift .O8
To ten shares stock Credit Mobilier of A.s1ot
5naesgs. June is to cash 81
Total. 81 81
By dividend bond Union Pacific Rail-
At teag eighty per cent. less three per cent =
8 June II, by dividend collected for your !.
= account .........s 6l
D The following is General 's'' ~e'D'
GARFIELD's EXPLANATION
n l.
: 1.-The first ever heard of the Credit Mobile
: was in 1866 or 1867. can not fix the date
r when George Francis Train called on me an
!, said he was organizing a company to be know
as the Credit Mobilier of America, TO be form
q ed on the model of the Credit Mobilier Q
. France; that the object of the company was t
;, purchase lands and build houses along tn
line of the Pacific Railroad at points wher
v cities and villages were likely to spring up
. that he had no doubt money thus investe
would double or treble itself each year; tina
J, | subscriptions were limited to $1,000 each, an
n he wished me to subscribe He showed me
long list of subscribers, among them Mr.. Oake
Ames, to whom he referred me for further il
formation concerning the enterprise. 1 al
swered that had not the money to spare, an
b if had would not subscribe without know
!. ing more about the proposed organization
# Mr.. Train left me, saying he would hold n plac
= open for me, and hoped would yet concfud
q to subscribe. The same day asked Mr.. Anne
Y what he thought of the enterprise. He e1
| pressed the opinion that the Investment woul
be safe and profitable.
81 heard nothing further upon the subje6
: for year or more, and it was almost forgo
ten when, some time, should say during tn
;; long session of 1885, Mr.. Ames spoke of
q again; said the company had organized, wa
!, doing well, and he thought would soon pa
large dividends. He said that some of th
L stock had been left or was to be left, in hi
u | hands to sell, and could take the amour
IN