The Hawaiian gazette. [volume] (Honolulu [Oahu, Hawaii]) 1865-1918, 1880-08-25
Remarks of Hon S. N. Castle ON the
s10,OOO,OOO Loan Bill.

Mn. PRESIDENT The Honorable member from
Lahaina says that loan may be used with great
advantage often in constructing irrigating canals
and thereby giving fertility to large areas of waste
land in building of railways, telegraphs, ocean
cables, constructing marine railways and other
works of internal improvements, &c.
am happy to agree with the gentleman, that
great benefits may arise from such investments.
nations strength, consists largely in the pros
perlty, happiness, contentment and wealth of its
subjects or citizens-and where such investments
will pay directly indirectly by adding increased
value to property and promoting industry amongst
the people, and giving the elements of strength to
the government, loans by government to accom-
plsh these ends are no doubt often not only just-
Gable but wise.
But the first question prudent business man
asks of himself is-will it pay For instance, the
ocean cable is very expensive, and from our hmi-
ted area and necessarily insufficient population it
cannot be expected to pay directly or indirectly.
1t would be pleasant to enjoy its conveniences and
advantages, but it could not be expected TO pay
either pecuniarily or indirectly by consequential
crease of business TO the island population. Mr..
Field the President, and Col. Harris, the Score
tary, of the Atlantic Cable Company told me that
the cost of cable and placing for use was e3Oo-or
u 900 per mie-that the length of cable required
from San Francisco via Honolulu and Midway Is
land to Japan or Chins-including slsck'-would
not be far from 200 miles. Mr.. Field said he
did not expect it TO pay at present; but with the
vast territory and population at either end and the
increasing commerce it would ultimately pay.
This kingdom has not the territory, and cannot
expect ever to have a population or business to
make any considerable investment justihable in
ocean cables. For the convenience and the incl
dental business of way station it no doubt will
do something, and all that it ought to do.
The gentleman says, no danger to our independ-
ence is to be apprehended from debt. Nations are
sensitive to their honor and the protection of their
subjects or citizens but satisfied to let the sub
ject of debt take its chances in the courts. He
instances the vast debt of Great Britain and the
United States, and speaks of the reputation by
the State of Mississippi of her debt a generation
sgo-largely due to British subjects without inter
ference on the part of the British government.
The illustration between large and powerful and
a small and feeble nation is not just A strong
nation can repudiate its debt, though it may be
wrong to do it, but there is power to enforce
payment. Whilst a weak nation will be compelled
to pay, or if not able willing, its Sovereignty
will be wrested from it, as have too often seen
from history. The British debt is about one-tenth
of all the property in the United Kingdom, and
the United States debt about onetwelfth of all the
property in the United States, but this Bill pro-
poses loan equal to one-half o. all the property
In the Kingdom, single loan at once or author
ity to loan sum five times large IN proportion
to the property in the Kingdom the debt of
Great Britain, and six times as large Il e debt
of the United States. The debt of Great Britain
ID due chilly to its own subjects, and the debt OF
the United States, though more to foreigners, yet
quite largely to its citizens. But this Bill contem
plates borrowing this great sum from abroad, and
IN my view large debt owing to foreigners would
be great element of danger to our Independence.
to the weak. The heavy debts of Great Britain
and the United States not incurred from
choice, but in great national wars for national life
and honor. Great Britain commenced IN the great
European wars of the middle of the last century,
and although in the most successful of her wars,
when Canada was taken, she took about $500, 900,
eco OF prize money, and took and destroyed more
than 100 of her enemies ships-still she COM
menced rolling up her debt-though the greater
part was contracted during the long continued
Napoleonic wars. The British occupation of these
10 30 ,10 Co.
monetary demands claimed to be due to British
subjects, and in default of payment by the govern
ment the Sovereignty passed to the British as
security till other satisfaction could be had After
the restoration early in 184 at the request of the
government, seconded by the personal application
of Sir George Seymour and Consul General Miller,
sat in arbitration on some of these claims many
days with the late Mr. Wyllie then Acting British
Consul. also with Mr.. Suwerkroop the Danish
Consul, and lastly in one of the most important
cases alone.
With these gentlemen / spent several weeks in
listening to the testimony and rendering the
awards The cases acted upon by Mr.. Wyllie and
myself will no doubt be found in the government
archives, and probably the others also.
However safe it may be for great and powerful
nations to incur foreign debt, it certainly is an
element of danger to its independece for feeble
one to do so, and this Bill proposes 10 authorize
the Ministry to borrow, if they can, sum five
times large in proportion to the property of the
Kingdom as the British nation accumulated
through century of time and many years of wide
spread and destructive With these views
Mr.. President, must support the motion for the
indefinite postponement of the Bill.
The Hon. member for Lahaina said that the
British occupation was based on claims for DANA
ges for matters affecting national honor, as was
the claim made by Commodore Jones of the United
States Navy in 1926. The previous question pre-
vented any reply from Mr.. Castle, but he WIS in a
position to know the character of the claims from
the most authentic sources.
1t assumed the form of debt, and if honest, az
some certainly were, the creditor was and would be
justified in resortlng to coercive measures to OBJ
tain his rights if the debtor refuses TO pay. Why
not if civil process for the same purpose is justi-
able between men.
If there is debt there is danger. If there is none
there is no danger from that source The motion
for indefinite postponement was carried by a large
majority.