New-York tribune., 1880-01-11
DIFFERENCE OF OPINION.
CONVERSATIONS WITH SUPERINTENDENT WALIi.,'
AND EXCISE COMMISSIONERS MORTON AN

AND EXCISE COMMISSIONERS MoKloN "
MREKLN.
The characteristic interview with superintendent
Walling which was published IN yesterday iriD
uYE appeared TO give him great satisiact'o'i' o"'
he was still very anxious to deny that any Dia'ne
should be attached to the Police Department -,
card TO the large number of people who are Selling
liouors without license. and repeated to ilubuNH
renorer Yesterday that was the duty OF the EAc'o
Commissioners TO work up the evidence aR"i"''
offenders and the only duty OF the police was ~
arrest them at the Commissioners instance
"Were vour views correctly reported In IhE
TprpuSE this ioorningp the reporter asked.
..Yes. that's pretty much what | said. Bu' you
made a mistake about the Excise Commissioners
furnishing evidence KNEW you would. 'o'"
Won at the time that YOU hadn't got the hang Vi '"o
thing. You asked ME in how many oil these 40 d"
res Is made during the past three mohtns We "'i'
furpished with evidence by the Excise boar",
and SAID not one,' but / corrected
mvseIf and said. perhaps a few, but not many.
Won have made me say Not one-half' As regards
these lists of persons whom the Excise Board tnlhAs
NAV be breaking the Liquor law, they furnish per
hans. \ aood many but they furnish no iniOimatioh
that is 70 saw no cvdence and the ponce nave ~
procure all the evidence themselves"
(Which ourht TO be done by the Excise In
spectOrs"
"Cerfainlv These lists don't mean much MANY
of the persons named i'll them are not IN the DUST
ness at all and others properly licensed perhpS
The inspeetors have come to me in the past with
these lists and said Here are number ot persons
selling without a license; can't you shake them mp
somer They are unwilling to have them arrested
! That is not what the Excise Board wants
"These dlsreputable dens abound; but you nearly
olrovs find in all the low dives along the Bowery
and North Wllliam-st. the license posted mp CON
snicuouslv. as the law directs Then the police can
do nothing. II Is the Excise Board that is TO blame
! for licensing such places and such persons
"Bnt cannot the police close these houses as dis
orderly o1 as the resort OF VIGOROUSLY bad charac-
| ters =
Not unless they can procure absolute evidence
Of it. and that Is very dificut; u fact 1t Is almosi
impossible for the police TO procure such evidence
as will lead to conviction. Ordinary evidence Is no
evidence m such cases, and no judge in the world
would convict upon IT.
Ipspector Murray, i'm whose precinct great num-
her of these disreputabo dens situated entered
the Superintendents room at this point and joined
! in the conversation.
.'Tbe mere fact Of there being number OF girls
in n saloon serving drinks is no evidence he said
| "that the place Is a dsoraefly one. The law only
! prohibits women from acting As water5 III places oi
amusement OF where they have show. II man
has the money and the inclination, hc may have
whole block in tho Bowcry, make 4 iuto q beer gar
den. and employ y thousand women "a carry beer
the police cannot touch them unless they can
prove that II Is n dsorder.y place"
rrp EXCISE SIDE OF THE CASE.
Commissioner Morrison did not attend the meet
ING of the Excise Board yesterday, nor was he to be
fouud at bis Office down town. The two other meni-
bcrs Of the Board Messrs Mcrklo and Morton. were
seated IN the Office, busy engaged IN rejecting
oy eran.iug-prncipaly in Tanting-appli-
cat,ons for licenses. The number of appIi-
cations since TuE TRIBUNF's list Of unlicensed
dealers was published stated hy one Of the clerks
70 have greatly increased. TRIBUNE reporter sent
in his card to Commissioners Mcrkie, and was
shortly afterward ushercd into the Board room.
Mr. Morton expressed his readiness to answer any
onestion which the limited time at his disposal
would admit and at once began statement in OK
planatlOn of IHK IRiBCNko llst Oh 700 unhcc"seu
dealers iu liquor.
.'Haye Won read THE TRBUNEs interview with
superintendent WalngG" asked the reporter in
terrupting Mr.. Morton.
"Well, no; but --"
"e saws il is the duty Of the Excise Board 10 pro-
cure evidence Of offences against The Excise law"
1--WE arc not bound to send men into liquor shops
10 hear and see and induce people to sell iquo' IN
order TO punish them. Our business is TO receive
applications for licenses, and to pass upon
, then according TO the qualifications of tho appli-
conts. | cannot say but that she police
have considerable difficulty in these cases, because
they arc not allowed to enter these drinking places
and. as Mr. Crosby said some time ago, think that
the advertising and displaying of signs IN reference
! to drinks ought 10 be allowed presumptiyc ev-
denee that the people are selling liquor on the prem
ses where such signs are displayed. 1t is required
by law that the license shall be exhibited III con
spicuous place in the room where the drink is sup
pled and whore the officer finds no such license ex
a hibted he would be justified in making an arrest
OH the presumption that the people are selling with
out it,
"Buta a policeman has no right to enter a saloon.
Q Not patrolman. certainly; but detective
. has"
"Do you complain that the police do not co
onerate with YOU in carrying out the law :"
= 81 cannot say as to that. have no wish TO sa!
o ANYTHING against the Police Department, but }
Is anything they are a little lax perhaps"
J. And YOU say it is part of the Excise Commls
e soners duty to that the law Is not violated
IS "Here is the answer to that question. In the re
ysed Statutes Vol l. page 934, ii is set forth tha
the license shall be kept posted In conspicuous pc
siton In the room place where the sales are made
N and shall be exhibited at all times to every sheri
W under-sherif. deputy-sherih, constable, marsha
le policeman or officer of the police IL such iicens
is not so exhibited it shall be deemed presumpty
~ evidence that the dealer has such license. Mo-
r. | think that answers your question con
de pletely. The persons mentioned are thos
provided by the law to make such inspe'
is ton. Again. section 2 page 93s. says: J
b. shall be the duty of every sheriff. under-sherii
to deputy-sheriG. constable marshal policeman,
or officer of the police. to arrest all persons actnal
ID engaged IN the commission of any offence III vlo
y ton Of this act. Now, am not sheriff. deput!
sheriff policeman, or any one oil the persons name
es u, the act nor is any officer Of oar BOard"