The sun. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1833-1916, 1879-04-09
READY FOR A NEW WITNESS
MR. HATHAWAY'S TESTIMONY AGAINST
TALMdGE CONCLUDED

The Tabernacle Pastor. Advice to the Wit
ness ConcernIng his Entering the Ministry.
and the Witness's OpinIon OF the Pastor.
There were only ten members OF the
Brooklyn Presbytery in their sents yesterday Mt
2 =. NJ. when the twelfth session Of the trial OF
DIR. Talmage was begun. The cross examina-
ton Of the Rev. Israel W. Hathaway was re-
sumed by Dr. Samuel Spear Of DIR. Talmages
counsel who rehearsed Mr.. Hathaway's testi-
mony Of Friday last. putting II in the form OF
questions TO the witness and nj the end Of every
question asking. Ia that eo7" Mr.. Hathaway
rea1lrmed the truth OF every averment he had
previously made. DIR. Spear asked tho quca-
tons no rs to bring before the minde OF the
Presbytery the facts In narrative form. Speak
ing Of his studying for the ministry, the witness
said: " | conceived the idea Of becoming min
lister twenty years ago but never carried 1t
into effect until recently because had not the
opportunity. | was for six weeks in the lay
college Of the Tabernacle. My percentages on
pew rentals in the Tabernacle amounted to
about 1000 a year When spoke to DR.. Tai
mage about going to Princeton to prepare for
the ministry. he said: Wade right in now up
to your chin; I'll get you place told him
that wanted to study: that his plan might do
for him. but II would not do for me.
There were some who left the church because
they were pressed too hard for their pew rents.
I told DR.. Talmage OF this He thought that 1t
was good riddance. and that we would soon
have new persona in their places. DR.. Talmaee
SAID that II after he was dead there was an auc
ton OF pews IN that house. he would turn over
In his grave when the mnllct fell"
Q-Do you think DIR. TAmaRe thought. in
max ing his announcement, that the pews were
not let with reference to tho dollar question
Al think DR.. Tnlmage got 80 accustomed To
dealing in hyperbole and extravaganza that he
WAS not conscious when he was not saying Just
exactly the truth.
Q.-Then II man isn't conscious Of lying
does h. hep A.-You must have some older
thcologian answer that question. think man
can tell u lie 40 big that nobody will believe him.
and that he does not sin. man may deceive
MIR Hathaway was closely questioned about
the circumstances attending his election ms
President Of the Young Peoples Association
and he admitted that several persons accused
him Of having acting dshOnOrably in connec-
ton with that election. He said. however. that
there WIS as much excitement attending one OF
their elections rs the election OF Mayor. In
response To nscries OF questions from Dr. Spenr,
Mr. Hathaway said that he did not know that
| DR.. Van Dyke had attempted to force back upon
| the church an eXpel led member. and threatened
| DR.. Talmagr with Presbyterian action II he did
not take him hack: that Dr. Yam Dyke had
| threatened the Tabernacle with Prrsbyterial ac-
| ton in connection with the old Lay College. and
| that DR.. Van Dyke had threatened the Taber-
nacle with Prcshyterial action because they had
| gold their old chapel on the ground that the
| TABERNACLE was wasting property OF the church.
DIR: VIM Dyke Laughed at the questions.
=
fed that you can vote impartially at the conclu-
| sion OF this trial on DR.. Talmagc's guilt or
| innUccnceY Al think ae n Christian man /
can vote impartially on the evidence
| Q.-Why did You write from Princeton to
hay" furious applause made Tor you when you
| spoke at the anniversary OF your association ?
| Al didn't write the letter from Princeton to
| get up furious applause" in q serious vein.
| Q-Now, isn't that dishonest praStice to
| make an audience applaud furiously. Al
have described that all l will. l wrote in a
| purely lOcOsp vein.
| On the redirect examination Mr.. Hathaway
| said that he had not demonstrated with DIR. Tai
mage for making false averments from the pull
pit because he tHathawnyl WIS young man.
| Odd you ever call Mr.. Corwn u hypocrite 2
| Al may have. | don't remember.
| Q.-Was that time you accepted present OF n
| bill from Mr. Barnum. for flowers the only
| time that YOU ever took any present in conncc-
| ton with the pew business2 A.-Ies, sir. am
| free 10 say That that was an indiscrction.
| Nothing was ever uttered against my moral
| DR.. Spear-Do you know that the trustees told
| DIR. Talmage that IL he would come over to
| their system Of renting the pews they would
| pay him f2O. 600 sanry. Al don't know that.
| rent the pews they could pay him more salary
Q.-Dont you know that DIR. Talmage said
| that he would rather have only $1,000 n year
| and have his church freoY Alt would be lust
| like him to say that.
On the subject of Mr. Hathaway's debts h,
| was asked IL any one had come to the trial with
bills but he refused To- testify on the subject
H. admitted that after he had heard DR.. Tai
| mage tell falschoods he had accepted com
| munion from his hands. and said that he had
| enjoyed IL.
Mr.. II .thaway was then dismissed as n wit
| ness. and the PR stytrry adjourned until T.
| NJ. to-day, at which hour. Il Is expected DIR. Van
| Dyke will bee called To- the stand.