New-York tribune. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1866-1924, 1879-04-16
TILE PROCEEDINGS.


DR.. Spear.
Odd you have a conversation with Mr.. Crosby last
Summer in reference TO DR.. Tamsgei A-Ies; IL was
on August in the Hudson River Railroad ears. III
the course OF conversation MI Crosby stated thal
Dr. Talmage was disgrace to the ministry and that he
either was or that he believed him to be liar ana
scOundrel
O-What was his temper OF mind A-Much the
same as he has exhibited h ere on this trial.
The witness was then crOss-cxamined by Mi crosby
O.-Do You swear that used those exact words Al
am positive that you used those words ana have beaid
you use similar language in reference to other good
man.
Q-what other good meni A.-The elders OF the
First Presbyterian Church of Brooklyn. You said that
Won would not believe them under oath. told that
you RASH and cCulG only stop you win dhculty
put the two tnngs together and regarded you a
o|Haye You not said to me since that you never
heard or knew ANYTHING my Christian CHAR
acter1 Al said taDtlally that. believe that
YOU Christian man, but that You nave been IN
Q-Have you SHOWN disapprOyal OF my cOnductf
Al have had 10 occasion To do So
Q-lIave you spoken TO others about this A. Yes (;
some members Of this Presbytery-to Dr. Wells. Dr.
Van Dyke, Mr.. Nee 'eland and others.
TO MIR McCullagh the witness said that he he'd known
Mr. Talmage for fifteen years. He had not approved Of
some of ms methods of preaching. Ills memory was
Bv Mr. Northumberland Mr.. Crosby spoke Of the
elders, was he excited that he could be heard by
tending TO their own business. lLaughterI
DIR. SPEAR THREATENS TO LEAVE THE COURT.
Mr.. McCelland-If this is repeated wish the clerk
TO take notice my protest that shall leave the court
Dr. Butler-I am ready to make my motion that the
Presbytery shall sit with closed doors.
Dr. Spear-I mplore the audience not 10 manifest
their feelings in this manner. 1t is a momentary
urmity But if the Presbytery proceeds to this action
which has been suggested give notice that shall
retire too.
The Rev Mr.. Greene-I wish TO know II Or. Spear
intends to hold the lash In this manner What
Tie Moderaior-The statement made by others
before him. think we had better drop tns matter
Mr. MlardI wish to say that the applause 10 not all
DR. ButIer-who said 70 vast
titled became connected with The Chrisftan at
Work IN October. 1875. He first had a conversation
with Mr. Remington at Saratoga 10 regard To Tue mat
ter. He was then in the lie insurance business. He
was not fattcring. In regard to the interview be.
tween Mr. Tamago Mr.. Hallock and himself at his
was Doubt about the continuance of The
Christian at Work. great concern whether or not
lad paid for the year Mr. Talmaec said to Mr.. Hal
lock if he would purchase the paper he would edit
case me Christian at Work should stop he could get out
paper ON hls own !ype at snort nose, ana Suppy
suggestion OF starting rlyai paper Ihat SUBJECT
not mentioned. The thought or leaving out the
new The witness said To the othets mat lie could
supply the OF tue subscribers from the list which
was sent to his week Nothing SAID by
Mr. liza lock about this being according To the law pat
moi according 10 the Gospel The witness never fur
nished list of The Christian at Works Subscribers TO
The Adednce. He read letters from MI. Remington
approving OF his action as publisher.
Ing the paper Al know that no intended TO leave on
wsel DT Tamage aud General Howard in October
when the arrangement with The Adrdnee was MADE.
COMMISSIONS on DIR. TALMAGE's LIFE INSURANCE.
On the crOss-examnation by Mr.. Crosby, Major Cor
win testified in regard Mr. Pearsas retirement from
md ne rafpu of he
trustees minute book He said that he signed the
OF certain persons subscription cards when Mr. Kim
ball made an effort TO raise the debt OF the Tabernacle
on February II. 1873, but he did not do so without
authority subscribed $500 for Captain Lathamiand
81 900 for John II. Cassidy. He authorized to do
so several days These had never been col
ected and he asked these men TO pay their sub
scipons. The witness President OF the Board OF
Trustees OF the Tabernacle at present and held that posi-
tion I'm 1878, 1874 and 1878.
o.-Wnen y gu were IN the Board OF Trustees were
propositions to take out insurance policies On DE- Tai
mage's life discussed. Ayes, sir.
Odd they secure such policies A.-They did,
s2O 900 EACH IN the New-Iork and Equitable Com
Po%Wbo secured themi Al did.
O. Did you get any commission Al always re-
ceiye "a commission on my business.
O.-Iad you not said to the trustees that you would
take no commits -loni A.-Never. don't 40 business
Cor run. Laughterl
O-IIow much dld you receive A.-Thats my bust
ness it's not your buiness. l might have said that
g..
The Moderator ITO Tie Wlthess]-Oohuhe youFbeI 10
the Winrss-I hope the counsel will confne himself
TO the business IN hand.
Mr. Crosby intend TO test the crediblity OF the wit
aud 10 bring witnesses here TO contradict nun on
some OF these points. Mr. COrWln mas Deth intimately
associated with DIR. Tamagc, and he Is affected In feel
ing interest by this trial Our book says that the
credbity witness IS affected by his deep interest
Ia the result or the trlal"
SHALL REBUTTING TESTIMONY BE ALLOwEDf
long and lively debate onsued the question Of
admitting witnesses IN rebutal Of tho testimony intro
dueed by the defence Dr. Spear commended that
according TO the a" Book OF Discipline" witnesses
could be introduced against tile defendant except those
named the citation for him TO appear for trial. and
that witnesses in rebutLa witnesses against the
defendant.
MI Crosby-Then witnesses nj ght be brought forward
to make statements derogatory to the character OF other
witnesses and their statements would be left without any
defence because no witnesses be introdUcodl
The question Of excluding evidence In rebuttal was
never heard OF I'm a secular court.
Mr. Mlard--Fhere is plain rule OF the book, md we
cannot override 1t by any analogy Of the
DE- Spear-Rebuttng testimony relates to facts ger
muuc the issue. ana not 10 Collateral facts. Here
law OF limitation III our book.
DR.. But!eT-I stand by the book The book refers 10
the cTcdiDlitV ni Witnesses. Our system has nothing
u do whit utterly lgnorcs-the civil code.
The ModcTatOr-lbe book knows nothing Of "impeach-
ing a witness. Tho word IS not used; and according
The rules OF cydrncr. wiiLess can be hnpe lched
only when persons declare upon their oaths tAat no s
unworthy OF credit.
MIR McCIelland-It Is assumed that in church court
all the witnesses toll truth. There should be limit
somewhere, on We sall be mere All summer Laughter
Mr. CiOsby-lhe first witness to-day was introduced
show the incOmpeiency OF former witness. II this
IL allowed Oh one side IL must IN fairness, be allowed
on the other.
Mr. Mlllard-Your hands are tied mp by the book
Mr.. Hatha Say inquired II he not To bo allowed 90
bring III witnesses 10 mpcach the twenty Witnesses TO
be brought against him. aud the defence said that
ccptluD would be mndc IN his Gaze.
~ Adl1g tue discussion lht hour OF adjournment