New-York tribune., 1879-04-09
TILE PROCEEDINGS.

THE PROCEEDINGS.
The croSS-examnatiOn of the Rev. !. W..
Hathaway was resumed by Dr. Spear. who first read
over the questions prOpOuuded the direct e1amna-
ton the previous day. saying that he had gone over
them a dozen times gain clear idea OF them. In
response to eacn one Mr.. Hathaway replied Yes"
DR. spear then continued wnen did you first learn
that your testimony this matter to be demanded
A.-when Mr.. Crosby told me he should call me as o
witness.
Q-when was thati A.-After the meeting Of the
PTesbytery.
O-Wnal did you say TO him Al told him the
natter was settled ard wished 10 have nothing to do
with t. He said it not for Se TO decide that was
bound to obey the order Of the Presbytery ,
Q.-But the specifications were not framed, ana no
order TO Witnesses WAS issued thenf At was the
o-pld Won visit the Rev Mr. st. John and tell him
tlc whole story A week after seeing Mr crosby
saw 1ir - Joho ana ~ a g,nerM WAY Said flaS W.
talked OF churches iu general.
QDidu't YOU give hlm history Of the case, and al
ALTAR A-No, cir. gave only an outline, and re-
Q-Did you use that word Ayes; have always
used 10 in speaking OF The resolution Of the Session
ODD on converse with MIR. 81. John week ago
Monday on this subiccti A.-Yes; walked home with
~ ~ m % ii, W ,,e rvoIs one cndeaynred 10 sbow
that my relations with Dr. IIimage were friendly and
pleasant up 10 the Winter of 1876. SAID that re-
er.tIed that was involved in this matter, as had
Held o: LABOR III New-Jersey and desired to give my at
Q-Dld yeu say that you were between the upper and
uclhel mi.lstonesi A-No, sir; tmnk not.
Odd YOU say that YOU were DRAGGED into this CON
trOvcr>y by Nj Crosby ana Dr. Van Dyhef A-No;
Mr. ST. John used tuis language.
Oh 10 your opinion that IL was necessary ana
Christian duty to rake up this difficulty after II had
bge4 asn4.I ol Al decline In & 10 eI lIgSs @ an oliUu ]
notamg 30 say in regard 10 the wisdom # others.
TOO BUSY TO RAKE Up OLD DIFFICULTIES.
Q.-Why would you not have done it1 A.-Becauss
: ] had other tA.ugs 20 do which more profit
\ able.
Q.-Doyou think IL czpcdeut for anyone
MIR. NcCulagl untcrrup,ing)-Mr. Moderator, this is
the mcTcst stuff.
Mr. Crosby reminded the witness that he had a right
10 refuse TO answer such questions.
The witness stated that lie student in the Lay
College weeks lie conceived the idea OF becom-
ing minister twenty lie thought that
Influences the Tabernacle were cOntaminatinG and
the influence ot some persons bad. lie made com
plan of Dr. TJlmIgc. He accepted his position
In the Tabernacle in order study tor the ministry and
was going back 20 business lie received about $500
from the Suad, school although he was promised $500
for each OF The two years lie also explained the system
OF renting pews IN me Iabernacie -
%, Won Auow that memheTs took exception TO your
plan % assigning Pews ,A.-IcS knew there was a
Families had left and he said: "GOod riddance; can
get better 10 taEe their pLtces' lLaugGter.l
fuse TO aiop, any system Of auctOniug the pewsl A
Dr. Talulge that he dld abstain from making the an
which be formerly did lle sud that II ever
turn iu his cotiu. l~ensauon.l
O-ls tlrrp q word about the dollar question in the
Vrrb g1, new rr:iIs In tie church It was under
stood that he pews were charged ior Dut1o the world
OBJ Iaimage dii not deceive the people, A.-Thoy
got used 20 u.
TIE ETHICS OF LYING.
Q-Do YOU know that no was consciously lying A
He go- so accustomed TO dealing IN AyperbOle and
trayae,rza that DE didn't know IT, 4 lie so large that
no one believes it is no sin Tie sin lies Ia the decep
ton.
Q-Is there no lying If no deception is meauti A
Yes.
o-Can person speak truth and intend 10 lie at the
same time A.-Yes subiectivey it may be a lie, and
obj,clyryit it may De truth. Is this theological ex
anin1ton9
Odd yOu tell the pew-HU'dcis tGat yOu had per-
ceGttcc on the pew rcntaIs' A.-N0; Kept 1t yefy
qo-isi.a f.c that al this trouble grew ont Of Dr..
Van DYKES letter 10 Tie Presbyterian Al don't
Q'~iiiys you spoIen disparasngly Of Dr.. Talmage
noNb.d You ten Mr.. ST. John tha. Dr. Talmage was
c0aiy .uaii wnO couldn't tell q LEI A.--SO, sir.
Odd you not say tiat Dr. Ialnage was as honest
Q.-As member OF This body. Will you vote on the
ful Issuet Al don't knO" think can do 50 I'M
partially according to the eNdeucc-mIno As well as
Sir Mard hen asked some questions ia reference to
The resolution passed nv che Tabernacle Session 4uy
10 1877 vhicn the witness considered settlement Of
his troH5c with d.. T.lmase. When the counsel said
thai certain things had been testified TO. the witness
broke in With " You have most absurd way OF ttl,
1Bg what he has testified to" lie thought mat
the resolution coutaucd confession that some mem
beTs Of the Session had saEdcFCd MN. Ihc cHCuiAF
which was seat out III ef 10 'pIhc4to"s Ior pe"S
o-Was thst circular truo' A.-Not morally. To al
practical purposes It was fslsenoOd.
Q.-YOu knew 1t TO be 'slso when you sent II ont
Al didn't think anything about It.
O-iavc you aOt sworn today that you thought that
Dr Talmsge ala not mean " tell ialschood II making
That announcement A.-NOt IN that way.
ODD yOu not Say that Dr Talmaee did not con-
sciousy ial taISchOodi Al refer TO the miautes
Q."%sat d. you cay nowl Ar it had been my
own sell, think must have been CONSCIOUS % II.
TALMAGB " BORN Az INNOVATION"
Q-What DO you thiuk about him T. A.-Wcll. he is
made up differently from other men that can't tell
1 thought IL strange hat he could say such n thing
without knowing II 70 be false. But he told me
that ne wa born innovation. and that he had been
an innovation ever since. lLaushterl Maybe that
was an IN novstion lLaughter.I
O-You woro TOO modest you 70 bring the matter
before the Sessions Al didn't say was too modest.
! was never accused Of tn1t.
The Rev. Mr Marlin-I should ike 10 know whether
this master Is relevant Ny time ID not my own, and
can't sit here aud waste ~.
Mr. McCull. gh-Noither can l.
Mr. Mnlard-I don't Ike to suffer strictuces from any
ono about my cunduct here d counsel.
few more questions closed the cross-examination,
snd Mr. McCulagh before questioning the witness,
marked: .Tn. counsel on the other side have raised
good deal O, smoke Let brush away some Of this
0ust and get at the fscts. That is what We want"
Odd you Try 70 get away from yoIe eiedtoIs TIeH men
home 10 DO silil IL BiOOklyn -, A.,
Q-Dd you receive the fuil amount OF the sun 'euseo
10 Won bT tAS Sund1T school A.-Oh, no.
of ths SaBdsy-EcboOl had redeemed It's pledge,
would you have been abe 10 P~I or yTI M nnt rte
thai money vas grsasiy oramPed financially.
pguoRAIIzISG INFLUENCES OF THE TABEgNACLB.
o-Had you "a an elder demonstrated against Things
which YOU Thought tended to iDJnre the punty OF the
ehurcbi Al rnade q remonsiraneo Id reference 10