The Wheeling daily intelligencer. [volume] (Wheeling, W. Va.) 1865-1903, 1879-07-11
AN INrERylEw


Mr.. Egbert F. Cleave, the gentleman
who was advertised to deliver free lee.
ture in City Hall on his conversion to
Catholicism, is stopping with Mr.. Sherry
on Belmont street. He is an Englisman
by birth; but now lives in Columbus.
Starting as preacher in the High Church
portion ofthe Church Of England, he be.
came alarmed at the closeness with which
that denomination approached the Ro-
man Catholic Church, and left It. He be-
came a member Of the Reformed Episco-
pal Church, but found that church utter
ly dead. As On Eplscopalian minister he
preached in denunciation Of sectarianism,
till he became convinced that the true
course was to leave all sects, which he did,
becoming q Union Evangelist. Preach.
ing the truth, with prayers for guidance,
not putting himself or his beliefs in the
way, he claims, led him to preaching Ro-
man Catholic doctrines before he knew
that he was doing so, and without ever
having studied Catholic theology.
To the question whether he did not con-
clude, when he found himself safe in the
bosom OF the Catholic Church, that the
High Church in which he first started was
the nearest after all to that in which he
had ended, he said emphatically "So, sir,
II Is farther from the true doctrine, from
the Catholic Church, than Methodism or
Presby yterianish,n ,..,-.,
Hisgreat objectiye point Is sectariauism,
whfcffhe thinks must submit to the one
only true church, the Roman Catholic
Church. AS to tolerating other sects, he
thinks that it is absurd 10 expect the true
faithS to tolerate error. Right cannot
agree with wrong. But at the same time
he thinks the Roman Catholic Church her
self does not show intolerance, except by
using its moral power to'remove and con-
:art to itself all that differ from her.
The governments themselves sometimes
do assume the right to prohibit aud to
establish iu All arbitrary manner; but
that, he thinks, is only political, for polit.
ical ends and by politicians. The Span.
ISL Inouiaition he asserts was carried on
by the Spuuish government itself for po.
litical ends, and was no more bla;nable on
the Churcl, Of Rome than was the Court
of High Commission and the outrages
that tribunal perpetrated in England.
The Popes and Councils OF the Church
always irowned on prosecutions Of the
kind and disavowed them. The inQuisi-
ton established by Calvin, the founder
Iof the Presbyterian Church, he regards,
on the contrary, as differing from these
and as, being a aNpurely religious affair,
during the continuance Of which one man
at least was burned to death for bis heresy,
Ifor his disbelief in the doctrines OF Calvin
and the sect he had raised.
Concerning the connection OF Church
and State, Mr.. CleaVe would not say that
we must have a State religion, but he
thinks both should work together. Where
weihaye so many sects this is impossible,
and all must be unitedin onet let Church
and State work in any sense together, and
the one sect into which allmust go, accord
ing TO Mr.. Cleave, is the Roman Catholic.
The future OF this church he thinks is
pro mising. ut Is true great deal Of
power has been taken from u.s." he said,
hand the fope's temporal power is gone,
but that has happened before.l To the
suggestion that this true the Pope is de-
prived Of his power in different way
from the other cases, in being not driven
out but allowed to remain In Rome in his
own palace, he said he thought the power
would still be given back TO him, not by
his own struggles SO much as by the peo-
pls'sio%n act. '1.ook at Bismarck" he
said, "his power is Rome's greatest obsta-
Gle; but he is declining rapidly, both phys
icaily and in political power"
In England, too, he looks for change.
In fifty years, lie says. he looks for the
Anglican Church, with its millions, to be-
come Catholic and England to be enrolled
among the true Catholics, It's sovereigns
really "deienders ofthe faith" "Why,"
he says, "our ancestors were all at one
time, q few hundred years ago, in the
Catholic Church."
This claim OF the probability OF such a
change in England hardly agrees with his
assertion, that he made to your reporter,
that the high church party Of the Church
Of England is arther from the true Catho'
lie Church than Is the Methodist Church.
He rested this on the fact that more Meth.
odists, in proportion to their numbers, are
converted to the Catholic belief than men,
beis Of the Church OF England. In the
opinion Of your reporter this argument
does not have so much meaning as this for
the English Church Is already so nearly
the same as the Catholic that conversions
are not necessary; its members would
have little to change, perhaps.
The Anglican Church, he thinks, lacks
much. No apostolic succession, only
holding two OF the sacramento, with no
head but woman! The Popes, he thinks,
have retained the apostolic succession and
the present Pope Is the. direct successor
OF ST, Peter, whose power has come down
|. to him through an unbroken line OF pom
tiffS.
To the reporters humble suggestion
that there were once two Popes at once,
and it might be difficult TO tsll which was
: the genuine, he replied that that happened
In troublesome times, when errors and dis
putes had sway, but the apostolic success
sion survived.
Mr., Cleaye thinks the education OF the
Young eryimportant. III you send yoll
lchild 10 q Catholic school, said he; ut will
be taught religion and will become q
Catholic, while Il you send 1t TO one OF oul
public schools II will learn to read and
: write tolorably, learn little arithmetic
and q smatterllg OF several other things
: together with some Sunday school talk;
When told that there were several CATHOLIC
+ children attending the higher rooms o.
S our Bellaire schools, he shook his heac
h rather deprecatingly.
a Inasmuch as the reverend gentlemen i
billed for lecture here, and inasmueh q
a | expect 10 send you report OF his re-
'. marks / do not suppose that It Is WORT
a while for me 10 enlarge upon this outline
OF conversation with him. have giveI
you above meFa summary OF our inter
8 view.
! He Nus. Have started q papsh
: Iowa State Register.
Y Tho 'deposedl Khediye Of Egypt owe
}, sl0,0 700, 600. He must have started new
q morning daily to Gil long felt want.