The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1879-11-10


sense of independence andI hope which may place
them above fear and induce them to persevere with
the movement for a change or owners in the land is
another step which hope have accomplished.
The tenants now know that there is public opinion
with them and that they are the authors of serious
problem for English statesmen and Irish landlord
ism They know they have raised the greatest tes-
ton of the hour in British politics.
HERALD REPREsESrArrE-Bu suppose the land
lords body maintain their legal rights and 40
evict their non-paying tenantsf
MIR. PAsNELL--lhey will not attempt it, that is my
belief not at all events ON any large scale. III they
did then the crisis OF tho question would all
the sooner, aud We should he much nearer the
solution. There Is one thing upon which the mind
of the tenant class is fully made up. The people
will not and must not be turned off the land. and
they have the feeling of the towns with Thorn.
There will be no more crowbar brigade business in
Irelsnd You may depend that, unless, indeed
the English government should openly undertake
to mako war on tho people in tho interest of the
landlords, and that deem to be too improbable IN
event to be seriously thought of.
HERALD REPREsENTATIvE-There arc no public
signs Of any such action by tho landlords. On the
contrary. they are many of them Offering reductions
in their rents.
Mr.. PAnNELL-That is direct result of this agta-
ton. Before IT obtained public support the land
lords did not reduce their rents When l told the
people to pay NO rents without reduction the land
lords began to reduce and not till then But wish
TO point out that though the reduction of rent is
temporary alienation OF the evil it is not euro
the disease. OF the causes of which is landlord
ism itself. We must get rid OF the cause Of the
system before the cure can come. What want is
to put the people in such position will
enable them, from their own accumulated business,
to bear the strain which may arise from the
sional depression in the business OF farming. That
we can only have by peasant proprietary. by which
q transfer of the ownership of the land
from the class called landlords to the tlers Of the
soil themselves. To accomplish this want
ganzation. for which We nave the material in the
people themselves. and we want money. which
in Ireland have not but the Irish outside of Ireland
will. hopo, help lis in that direction.
THE APPEAL AMERroA.
HERALD REPREsENTArIvE-rhat, may take It, is
IN fha lrisb raca hicb
you and your colleagues have issued, and which was
telegraphed to the HERALD.
Mr.. PAnNELL~-That il the object of the address,
to obtain the financial aid of the Irish America and
elsewhere.
cannot expect the Irish abroad provide the money
to buy the whole Of the land of Ireland. They could
not subscribe the millions required. even If they
would. The amount would be enormous.
Mr.. PARNEIL-We don't ask them to SUBJ
scribe for any such purpose. 1t wonld be very
wild scheme indeed il we proposed to effect the
settlement Of the land question in that way 1 am
told there is notion abroad that want by gem
eral subscription by Irishmen all the world over to
raise the capital ourselves to buy out the land
lords. Now, we not lunstics over here. We
mean to have the land but have 4 practical
method OF getting possession of it.
HERALD ENTHUSIASTICALLY what, then, do you
appeal to the Irish Americans?
MIR. PAnSELI-For money to organize and sustain
the movement over here. We won't get rid Of land
lordism by merely asking for its removal We must
press the subject home and keep at it until it be-
comes the interest of the landlords themselves to
compel the British government to take them out of
their false position. The farmers in Ireland have
not had such opportunity. with the ability
they now possess to ntilize it. The English can
not say now-they never could fairly say it-that
with Alttle over five millions the country is over
populated. They said that in 1S47. you know, but
we are two and half millions less II we were
over-populated then it because the conditions
under which the land held were such as to pre-
vent the proper development Of its products by the
industry OF the people to provide sufficient
ey on SAY ws
conditions are moro indefensible than ever and
altogether unnatural. Belgium support much
denser population than England itself in
condition OF more equally distributed comfort
France. portions OF Austria, portions of Flanders
cumniate capital but they are enabled to do SO be-
the soil Is owned well worked by the
occupiers-because they have got rid Of andlordism
in fact. We say we can do the same thing in
degree under the same conditions, and mean to
obtain those conditions. That is answer to the
over-population fallacy. But must bring our
answer home tangibly-bring it home to every land
lord in the country. For that purpose must
keep up the movement Movement in svery county in every
and on the platform. We must be prepared to
sist the demand for exorbitant rents, generally
and in individual cases, and must resist the de-
mand by sustaining the victim in refusing to pay
them and still keeping him on his land. Conducted
vigorously, we will Thus teach the landlords that
they are not the only class entitled to obtain iv-
ing out OF the land and persevered in the landlords
must learn that they can only remain landlords by
ecnsent ting ~ material reduction OF their in-
comes-in fact. such reduction will make it to
their interest to sell out to the tenants before
HERALD. REpREsENrATTvE-It is generally
planned that with the rents Ut present charged
vacant holdings. How can you put end to that !?
Does 1t not show that the land has higher
value than the landlord at present obtains for it?
Mr.. PARNElL-You are referring to another curse
generated by the land systematic land jobbers. We
must ostracize them socially. and can do II by
public opinion We cannot blame the landlord for
dealing with the land jobber who is generally the
small tradesman Of the town, who has made money
In BUSINESS and has no other outlet for it. and looks
fha fhnpra all
which he take. It gives him interest for his
money-the money which he has made in other BUSH
farmer starting with capital who requires additional
and adjoining land 70 complete his business. But
of things. The land should be the manufacturer of
capital, not an abyss swallowing IL up. What tho
retired tradesman the capitalist Is able to do with
landry the money made in the town the occupier
OF the land should under equitable conditions. be
able to do by the profits of his labor. But instead,
the profits have gone in improving the land for the
landlord who sells tho capital of the tenant sunk in
the improved land to the land jobber thus develop
ing another evil of radically evil system. The
landlord robs the tenant aud sells the plumber to the
land jobber. Is not that an immoral transaction.
conforming by the very fact lsndlordism in Ireland
altogether? The land jobber will go when We get
rid OF the system which has produced him.
LANDIoRDIsM MUST GO.
HERALD REpREsENTATrvE-Wel having ripencd
the question Tor soiotion MS far as making the con-
dition Of things existing longer unbearabe. how do
you propose to get rid Of iandlordism? VIII you
ask the State to evict the landlords?
Mr.. PAENELI-It practically comes to that, and
they may be very glad be evicted from bad bust
ness. 1t may be done in various ways. not of
them smelling even family OF injustice royolu-
ton. Stein did 1t in Russia and the French people
required q revolution to accomplish it.
HERALD REPREsENTATIvE-You would suppose,
ask the State to turn the landlords into renters. to
give them the purchase value of their lands in
sols and then sell to the tenants. extending the in
stanents OF the purchase money over long period
IN the shape of rents to tho State?
Mr.. PAnSEII-No. would not ask tho State to do
even that much. 1t is not necessary. much SIM
pier plan would be 10 pay the landlords twothirds
OF the purchase money down and allow them to
draw the other third by nstalments from tho
number OF years. Why should they receive
ali their capital at once?
HERALD lsEPREsESrATrvE-How would you get tho
State to produce the purchasing capital?
Mr.. PAESELL British government bor-
10 any extent ut four per cont. Taking tho
present purchase value twenty two years rental
the tenants would paw for thrty-fvc years thirty
five instalments ut the rate of two-thirds to the
gsvern ment and paying onethird rental tho land
lord. either through tho government directly.
This would not only pay back the capital to the
crnmont but pay also interest and the working ex-
penses OF the same. AT the end OF thirty years
the tenant his lneal reprcscntatv would become
foa upI all