The New York herald., 1879-11-25

| tell Now do not understand how ne can make an
| acid pie without using acid
| .How could the sub-acetate of copper (which you
say you suppose the poison to have been) have been
| formed."
"By the contact of almost any acid with copper, or
by the copper vessel in which Mr. Schinkel says ne
made the pies being allowed 10 remain without
being cleaned after it had been used"
would any other substance than an acid cause
the formationT
might. But Mr.. Schinke expressly denied that acid
of any kind was used. and declared that his oske
shop was kept scrupulously Clean was unable
to learn from the conversation. though tried hard
how the verdigrs was found.
WHO ATE NO PIE.
Mr.. McGuinness keeps a small grocery store in the
basement of No. 321 West Forty-second street.
When asked about his visit to the Muivays week OK
Mrs. Mulvay to be true. He said that they pressed
take the balance of the pie, and out or con-
sideration Tor their feelings he consented He
wrapped it up in piece OF paper and
carried it home. but when he asot there he found
company, and so he put the pie aside. On the fol-
lowing morning he found that it had got nussed up
and did not look fit to eat, and subsequently 1t was
thrown out He reiterated that he had not partaken
of any OF the pie nor had any member OF the family
Shure Isuppose woulc have been sick. too like the
rest of them if had" he said While he was talking
his wife came in from another apartment and said
the piece of pie had been "thrown into the ash
barrel long ago." Mr.. McGuinness also stated that
he had been ut the home of the Mulvays the
morning after he had taken the pie home and called
the doctor them. This contradlcts Mr.. Mulvay's
statement however, that he had not seen McGuinness
for four days.
Mr.. Schnkel refused to talk to a HERALD reporter.
Aside from his conversation with Dr. O'Rielly, how
ever which is related above, he did talk to other
person. who questioned him closely about the way
in which the pies made. To this person Mr..
Schinkel told u different story from that which he
told DIR. OReilly. saying that he had used vanilla
extract in havoring the pies, and that they
lemon MES at all Mr. Schinkel is not Considered
bamable in the matter by any of the sufferers.
cepting for Ignorance or carelessness. No malicious
intent is imputed to him. nor could any reasonably
be imputed, but he himself 1T is evident from his
manner and appearance, suffers intensely. He de-
clares that he will fully TO all questions put
to him by the proper authorities when he Is sum-
HOW THE PIES WERE MADE.
He said that dozen or more Of the meringue pies
were baked on the Saturday on which Mrs. Wheeler
and Mrs. Mulvay bought theirs, and that they had
been made in the same way in which he
had been IN the habit Of making pies of
that kind for two years past. Milk and butter
were boiled together in copper kettle and
a mixture Of cornstarch, eggs and sugar was after
ward added and tho whole boiled together. The
whole then favored with extract OF vanilla and
the pies were made of this custard. There was no
lemon in them, he said distinctly, and they were
baked in tin pans. He said further that since Mr..
Wheelers death he had discontinued the use Of
copper utensils entirely
Inquiry was made yesterday at r. D. Gilmor's
bakery in Greenwich street as to the of copper
of the danger of the practice. Mr. Glmor said that
he presumed nearly all bakers used copper vessels OF
some kind. although he did not use any his
bakery. If they properly used and kept clean,
however considered that there danger in the
use of them. Unquestionably. however the Of
acids in them would produce verdigris and certain
other substances would also affect the copper Care
ought always to be taken above all things he said
to keep copper perfectly clean if it was used at all
care bakers generally careful about this?" asked
the reporter
II suppose so," said Mr.. Gilmor.
"How is copper ceanedY
.'It may be washed with clean water, or with soap
and water. or it may be secured with brick dust.
Some bakers clean it with oxalc acid, but should
consider that dangerous, unless the greatest care
was taken to wash out the acid atterward."
A REMARKABLE CASE OF POISONING.
Mr.. Gilmor then called on one of his veteran work
men for an experts opinion.
''rhere is no doubt at all OF the great danger of
using "copper"" said the latter, "uniess the person
using it Understands the danger and proper
care. I remember case when there were about
twenty men poisoned in establishment where
worked from the use Of a copper KETTLE A piece
of corned beef which was to be cooked for
our. dinner was brought in in copper
kettle which had been used to carry out
some ice cream. The beef was only in the kettle a
few minutes. but every one who ate any Of 1t was
green liquor in the bottom of the kettle told the
boss and he sent at for doctor, but, luckily.
the meu had taken such quantity of the poison
that it acted emetc. and they vomited it up.
so that none OF them were seriously ill.
Hotel used to have to make pound cake and other
things In q copper kettle, because we hadn't many
utensils to used to take out the cake
all green. The cream Of meringue. as it is called,
might be mixed in copper safely, because there
nothing in it but eggs and sugar. and neither Of
them would form verdigris. The lemon custard of
pie could not, however, be safely made copper.
since the acid and the milk were both dangerous.
Butter or any other greasy substance would cer-
tainly form verdigris.
OFFICIAL ACTION.
Coroner Elinger yesterday swore in the following
jurors at tho residence Of deceased No. Alb West
Forty-third street-Dr. A. Hugart, No. 354 West
Forty-second street; DIR. H. Boldt, Jr No. 537 Ninth
avenue; DIR. Joseph G. Miller, No. 353 West Forty
second street; DR.. John II. Nesbitt No. $50 West
Forty second street; DIR. James L. Wilson,
No. 36l West Forty second street; Joseph
Primer. druggist No. 622 Ninth avenue.
The jury merely went through the form Of looking
the body. and then adjourned subject to the call
or the Coroner, who yesterday applied to the Dis
trict Attorney, and the District Attorney will apply
to Judge of the Supreme Court for order direct
ing analysis to be made by expert in order to
defni tely determine the cause of DEATH 1t will take
at least three four weeks to make analysis of
the stomach although an analysis of the remaining
piece OF pie could probably be made sooner.