The New York herald., 1879-10-17
THE HOUSE or REFUGE.
Irqurng Into The Charges oi Msnanassnsnt
against lis Officers.
COLONEL CLAYS STATEMENTS FLAILY IRNIRD
The Examination Conducted in Secret
and Counsel Excluded.

Colonel Clay. formerly Assistant Superintendent
pf the House OF Refuge Randalls Island. some
lime since preferred a of very serious
charges against the management of that insti-
tuition. At the very outset. impediments
were, Claimed. thrown in the
way OF the complainant. by some of the House OF
Refuge managers. but finally. the HERALD gave
publicity to the charges which the Colonel made.
under oath, Of outrages which he said he knew TO
have been committed in the institution. and
committee Of the State Board Of Charities, to
which the charges had been presented, are now
in this city prepared to go on with an
investigation. The committee. through their secre-
tary. notified Colonel Clay late on Wednesday even-
Ing that on yesterday morning they would be
In session AT No. 67 Madison avenue. From
mother source it was also ascertained
that the investigation would be conducted
with closed doors and that counsel would
not be permitted to take part in the proceedings
The committee. which consists of William p. Le'ch-
worth of Buffalo, president; J. H. Van Antwerp. of
Albany; Edward c. Donnclly. of New York. and DR..
Charles S. Hoyt of Albany secretary, met ut No. 67
Madison avenue yesterday morning in accordance
with this determination. and will continue to meet
from day to day until the matter is disposed Of On
behalf of the managers of the House Of
Refuge printed answer 10 colonel Clay
charges was submitted. This answer, al
though very long, was only general denial
the allegations 1t is sworn to by Edgar Ketcha.
President of the Society for the Reformation of Ju
veniie Delinquents. under whose direction the
House of Refuge is conducted. and Is signed besides
by william NJ Prichard, Z. Randolph Robinson and
Benjamin ID. Silman. 1t concludes as follows:-
Finally. the managers respectfully submit it is
usual for general charges to be presented to legal r
which the ascaser held aud which may properly
inform the accused In order that he for the
trial Here railing accusation, without time place
Or fe and wns Of the sta x bi
cheerful prompti,ade they respectfully submit that
private whatever intrussd may
well demand that the shal! conform in his pro
ta hold parties before them Such specification would
ties and prompt hearing and determin alton OF the
charges which the and the public alike earnestly
VIEWS OF PARTIES INTERESTED.
Mr. Ketchum was called upon by q HERALD re-
porter at his Office yesterday, when he said that
far hc had only received notification that the
mittee had organized and that when they desired to
hear him they would send for him. Colonel Clay
before the committee yesterday afternoon and the
preliminary steps taken toward sexamination.
In view of the action of the committee in excluding
counsel a HERALD reporter called Mr.. Rastus S.
Ransom. at his Office. No. 157 Broadway yesterday
afternoon to ascertain from HIM the position
which, under the circumstances. Colonel Clay now
intended to assume.
els Colonel Clay prepared to go on under SO sud-
den notice?" inquired the reporter.
Undoubtedly. ordinary courtesy might have
prompted the State Board of Charities to give Colonel
Clay sufficient time to prepare fully to appear before
them to give testimony The testimony he isto give
has been collected and collated during many months
and in fair play he might have had few days
notice as to the day of examination. But, as
his counsel. do not care SO much tor that do
for the spirit the part of the committee which
precludes counsel from the investigation Now YOU
must remember that the managers OF the House Of
Refuge are the accused they charged with gross
mismnnagement of the Institution. Several of these
gentlemen are lawyerss for instance, Mr.. Ketchum
himself, who has been lawyer all his life
"Do you apprehend that those managers of the
House who lawyers will avail themselves Of
their professional skill in conducting their de-
fence?"
'.As to that am unable to say anything just now.
But remember that they are the accused and they
have the right to confront their accuser, il they
should choose to do so. Then say that Colonel
Clay has perfect right to be assisted by his counsel
throughout the Investigation.
SECRECY CONDEMNED.
ssSuppose that the committee would exclude the
OF managers and ali others except the wit
ness under examination, would you be willing to go
on?"
Certainly would But will not consent to
allow Colonel Clay to appear in the hands of
these legal gentlemen. unless he has his
the whole thing from the very beginning
looks like star chamber work. This is a matter OF
the greatest Importance to all well minded citizens
Serious complaints are made against public chari-
table institution. which OF ali institutions should be
conducted with wisdom. With the greatest
difficulty the accusations received. Either
they are true or false. If true. why not
expose them fully and completely and let the proper
remedy be applicd2 II false, why not expose the
falsehood satisfy the public mind that the insti
tuition is wisely managed and that there is
for complaint? Yet l find that the press is to be
excluded. Why should the press excluded IL
the investigation is to be thorough
and fair one? 1 trust tho committee
will see the wisdom of changing the plan they
to have adopted in this At all events if they
permit the accused managers, who are lawyers, or
any one of them, to appear and conduct their own
defence and refuse Colonel Clay the assistance of
counsel. shall advise him to refuse appear
ing before the committee. because obviously
he is entirely incapable of conducting his side
OF the investigation, opposed by a lawyer. whether
acting attorney for the accused or defending him.
self. / sincerely trust Colonel Clay will not be
forced into this unpleasant position out if he s the
responsibility will lie with the committee and in
that Colonel Clay shall present his charges to
the bar OF public opinion
COMMITTEE NOT COURT.
In the evening reporter visited Mr.. Edward G.
Donnelly at his residence at Manhattanville
tain his views in regard to the exclusion OF counsel
from the investigation. Mr.. Donney said that
neither the State Board of Charities nor the
mittee is court. and under the they
thought best to nd the truth in tls matter with
cut being bindered by lawyers. Many witnesses
wil not tell all they know when the evidence Is to
be made public. and in informal investigation
such this counsel be of no use except
to badger witnesses and intcrpose delays by
means or arguments respecting legal evidence.
1t is simply the truth in regard to the
management of the House of Refuge that the
committee desires to ascertain and to do this they
will allow each witness to tell all that he knows in
his own way No person Will be allowed to be pres
the intention OF the ommittee to make the invest
untl a1 OuUbas