The New York herald., 1879-09-13
Testimony Before the Legis-
lative Committee.
COST OF PASSENGER AND FREIGHT CARS.
Business OF the Delaware and
Hudson Canal Company.
COAL AND COAL COMBINATIONS.

pres;dent Dickson of the Delaware and Hudson
Canal Company, and Uri Gilbert president Oh the
Troy Car Works. were examined Mr.. Dickson was
represented by Henry Smith as counsel Ihe pro-
ceedings commenced with Counsel Sterne's examlh-
ing Mr. Marcy in regard to oil shipments from the
Erie road. He said the schedule SHOWS tno "hole
amount OF shipments
rt MIR. GIIBERT's TESTIMONY.
Mr. Gilbert was then sworn and testified as fol-
lows
Iresao at Troy: am a car builder; the name of
nv company is the Gilbert l. Bush Car Company;
lam not familiar With the prices OF other car build
ers the average price on box freight cars is S4OO to
S450 those that made three years ago cost Sooo;
the highest price that know to have been paid was
81 200: the reduction made since lo12, that
price prevailed during the war times; milk Car
costs about 500 more than an ordinary box freight
car that is assuming the box is not changed
baggage truck and passenger car truck
are about the same; baggage car costs about twice
as much as box freight car; the usual price of a
baggage car varies from $1,000 to $4,000; have
never been called upon to make car known as
milk car; we make Wagners drawing room cars; we
have made them as low as $4,000; that was cheap
car usual price is So 0OO it includes the chars,
carpets, mirrors. &C.; We manufacture sleeping cars
/ find that we have made drawing room cars Tor the
Delaware and Hudson Canal Company in 1870 for
S11 G00 get Sl3 600; we received that amount
for sleeping for Mr.. Wagner i'll 1874;
We haven't made him any since that price did not
include the sheets. pillows and blankets he has
paid us $4,000 Tor many cars; our cheaper drawing
room cars four wheels. we make Tor Slo,VOo; we
make cattle have sent great many OF these
cars to South America; the ordinary mail cars cost
from 900 to $1,000; the distributing mail cars
cost more; do not make tank cars; the reason we
can't compete with Western manufacturers is that
they are in lumber districts and poorer and
not their material; the prices named are
net; have not built any cars for trust
companies; have built $50 cars for the New York
Elevated road net price for the for the ele
vated road from $4,000 to S3,OOO they have fur
nished wheels and axes; that price covers every
thing; do not know anything about the price of
tank cars; never made any OF them the last ordi-
nary passenger that we built cost 81, ,20o the
last that we built for the Hudson River road cost
5000; that included heater and some other extra
fixtures; have made any large coal cars, the
price of the small car for carrying ore was $500, but
that is no criterion to so by Tor the coal trade
Mr.. Glbert's examination was concluded ut twelve
o'clock
PRESIDENT DIcKsoS's TESTIMONY.
President Dickson was then sworn, and testified
as follows:-
My is Thomas j Dickson am president of
the Delaware and Hudson Canal Company, and have
been for ten years; have been connected with the
road for twenty years they have gravity road and
a canal from the coal regions; We leased the Albany
and Susquehanna Railroad in 1S70 it did not to
our coal mines; 1t ran within fifty miles OF our coal
land; we put in link from Nineveh to the
Jefferson road after bought the Albany and
Susqnehanna road we had contract with the JET
ferson road to run rolling stock that road;
that gave continuous road from the mines under
control; we had no winter connection to North
New York before we obtained the control OF the
Albany and Susquehanna road; the first purchase of
the Delaware and Hudson Canal Company was the
coal lands, the canal after; we move about 100000 or
800 600 tons OF coal year; IN lo!i we leased the
Saratoga division to Whitehall, &c.; in 1873 We
structed the New York and Canada road
that is, furnished the money and leased
the road; the Jefferson road is still under o
lease to the Erie; when furnished the money to
the Jefferson road we received s1500.090 worth of
bonds of the Boston, Hartford and Erie road
curity: they guaranteed by the Erie road; the
reason did that anxious to have
the road built and 1t did not make any difference to
us what bonds we took; arrangements were made
with Gould and Fisk; we use the road; thrty-eight
miles of the road is three-rail road the Jefferson
road does not own any rolling stock the Erie road
claims to own lands near
O. What they worth? A. do not want to an
swer that question, as may not value the property
as highly they do; have no wish to hurt neigh
bor.
TRANSPORTATION COAL
The question not pressed and he continued -
did not know that application had been mado
for receiver to be appointed for the Erie road when
they asked tor the loan that refused them we
pay larger price for coal at local station than
We do at competitive points; the rate rs the
that OF the Erie road when the crcum-
stances are tho same; the coal
the Erie road are furnished by the
Ere it would not be economy tor furnish the
west of our lines; they DON'T the coal cars;
our gravity road is different gauge than the Erie
road; we can't run our cars their road don't
charge the boatmen any toll on the canal for coal; ;
have toll sheet for coal; have for other
freight; we have reduced the rate ourselves for
coal our road since 1872; it used to be two and
one-half per cent mile: it is not one and one
fourth per cent mile now; we make charge of
one and one-half per cent per mile to Saratoga
and per cent to Whitehall to ourselves
Falls, the Branch, &C.; the price OF coal ut
Saratoga is fifty cents less than at Morrisown, ~ Y
they selling coal i'll New York narbor less than
they do at their nines the cost OF transportation
depends upon the amount OF business that we do;
think we could make more money II We did all our
coal business at whitehall than to stop that train ut
Saratoga and switch part of it on side track and
wait three or four days for the cars to be unloaded
and then make the train up again.
BENEVOLENT BUSINESS.
We have been doing benevolent business for tho
past two or three years because compelled
enough pay the cost Of all the roads the railroad
between Whitehall and the Canada line was little
ahead of the times; the ono from Albany to Bing-
hamton is necessity; tho Saratoga road was repre-
sented to be worth great deal more than it
road had assistance from counties along
the road, but it has all been paid back; it has
also had some from the State; pay 81 per
day for common labor; wo have paid as high
81 30 per day; make reports to the State Engi-
neer; have noticed that they (tho State Engineers
reports) do not give much information: they could
be smplhed very much and give better information;
II would hot be very hard work to get the actual cost
or railroad we can give ours at any time without
trouble; the New York and Canada road could be
placed for less money; our other roads could not bc
replaced for less money: make reports a
canal company; make them a railroad com.
pany; we close everything every month in our
counts
floating debt consists OF all adjusted clams-all
claims that are due but which not paid because
We haven't money for them; past coupons also
q floating debt; IL would not be for the rail-
roads TO close up the 3Oh Of September; l would
make 1T the 30th of December; think that the re-
port OuBnt 70 coutaih baiAncc Shcct; Without
balance sheet tho report s very deccyinH; IL is OF
value the State at all in its present form: zee
objection TO asking in the engineers report how
much of the interest bonds is charged to the
construction account; i'll our capital account wo put
the stock first and then all our ixed debts.
Mr.. Dickson then gave what he thought TO be the
Say the State Engineers report should be made 30
hat II would show the true condition OF reporting
railroads. &c.
If we replace engine we do not charge the
cost to the construction account, put IL In tho
expenses account; If sell an old onginc charge
IL TO the equipment account; think that special
rates should prevails there are no two persons the
line of road but that get the same treatment
when tho conditions are alike; We have mover found
man who has done business with our road that has
not made application for special rates; l would
not keep a man after / found he had been
disobeying my orders. and IL found out that my
agents we're giving preferential rates should dis
them a. once; 1t Is for the interest OF
pany 70 build up tho business OF the manufacturers
b roal- nnable them 10