Daily globe. [volume] (St. Paul, Minn.) 1878-1884, 1879-06-10

C8l1eO lQOIudS murray COAOGcus 81
BY Mr. Merrick: @. On Saturday you stat
ed that you had not been promised money, but
you told De Lacy that you could make %. 5000.
forgot to ask You how you were going to
make money. A. By coming. here to tell the
truth and make reputation with my people.
1t would be worth $4,000 to have the good
people of my community with me.
@. Your people have bad reputation and
you wanted to build up good reputation for
yourself? A. Yes.
By Mr.. Schellabarger. How did You get
81, 500; you thought your reputation was worth
$2,5OO. A. No; thought I could make
$40, 900 out of it.
De Lacy was recalled and questioned about
the signature to his affidavit, and the commit
tee compared the signature to the affidavit with
the name written on q separate piece of paper
Saturday, but conclusions differed. MIR. Mer-
rick then offered in evidence De Lacy's affida-
Wit to abide the disposition of other afidavits.
The sergeant-at-arms reported eight witnesses
on each side had been subpmnaed. The chair
man suggested the examination be limited to
that number. rs it might be considered proper
to sen subcommittee to New Orleans to ex-
anime witnesses in order to save expense.
JULES sEvEIGNEs.
member of the Packard legislature in 1877,
and present in the joint convention that elect
ed Kellogg to the Senate, was examined. Mr..
Merrick exhibited the affidavit of the witness
who he said, made it, and it bore his signature,
An affidavit was read stating that the witness
was not present in the legislature in January.
1877, when Kellogg was elected for the long
term, but voted for him the next day.
By Mr.. Nj rrick-Is that true? A. It is not
true.
@. Tell us who lied. A. The very parties
who induced me to make the affidavit knew it
to be lie.
Merriok-I insist on knowing the name. A.
can't tell
BY MIR. Herman of the committee-You
ought to answer the question. A. can't an
swer because it would implicate other parties
not interested.
Mr.. Kernan-We can't help that.
Mr.. Schallabarger suggested that the witness
be told the consequences of not answering.
The witness said that Cavanac was posted on
the subject.
Mr.. Kernan-As it is not secret you must
answer.
The witness then gave the name of Drouette.
Mr.. Merrick-We want all the names of
those who induced You to swear to what they
knew was lie. A. There was another party
and am sorry gave his name.
MIR. Merrick-And you refuse to name the
others.
Mr.. Kernan-Did you say they knew it was q
falsehood when you made the affidavit? A.
They knew it. be false.
Q. Who were they? A. That's what l de-
cline to answer.
Q. What reason can you give for not letting
the world know who those men are? The wit
ness, after hesitating, said: Cavanao is an
other.
Mr.. Kernan-Who else? A.. Others wanted
me to swear to lies; they did not induce me;
Thomas Murray and j. w. Elder we're among
them.
In reply to Mr.. Hill the witness said: Cav
anac was present; when he wrote the affidavit
nobody offered to write it; he wrote it by him
self.
@, What were the inducements made to you
previous to writing the affidavit? A. Cavanac
said should have everything wanted, as Kel-
logg was tobe put out of the Senate anyhow.
Murray said there was sugar in it, but did not
AK me to swear falsely.
A. Drouette told me to stand by my affidavit.
9. How was it known that you had made an
affidavit? A. It was the talk for two months.
Drouette said my testimony was more impor-
tant for Spofford than the testimony of the
Others.
Q. You made the affidavit to get sugar. A.
| No, but to ascertain how all afidavits were
manufactured. I did not believe what they
! said.
@. You made the affidavit voluntarily. A.
| Yes, of my own motion. made three afidavits.
| Iaughter).
O. Do you not think it was immoral to
swear to lie? A. That depends on the cir
cumstances. 1t Is not when men want to BRING
Iabout how afidavits are obtained.
| The witness in reply to Senator Bailey said
he had held position in the New Orleans Gus
tom house, but resigned Is BOON as he became
| witness; that ho made the affidavit for the
benefit of the public, to expose fraud. Murray
said he wanted witness to 20 to Cavanac to
testify in behalf of Spofford that he (witness)
was not present on the day Kellogg was gen
orally voted for. It was not a lie, the witness
said, because he told it purposely to show how
things were done.
Merrick then cross-examined witness, who
said he made second affidavit for Elder, who
said he would not pay anything. he told
Cavanac he was not present at the election OF
Kellogg, but was locked up in q room.
@. That was lie, blunt, straightforward
lie. A. Yes.
| Q. Was what you did superinduced by thu
I never was bribed, and the parties themselve,
know it, because they had again and AGAR
offered me brides and refused them.
@. WHO were the parties. A. decline t.
state.
Senator Hill-You must answer. A. Mr.
Drouette told me that if recorded my vot
for Spofford could get what wanted il
money. l answered that could not. Viii
you not he asked, do it as favor for me.
J replied no, cannot because it would not b
consistent to vote for two men for the sa1u
Office. This was in the Nichols legislature.
Senator Kellogg interrupted witness, WHIT
J said he was "a years old, white man and wa
descended from an old French family. 81
called at the Senator's room on his arrival a
Washington. Merely shook hands with hir
and did not remain ten minutes. The Senate
did not talk about the case, and said to witnes
: here now, but after you testif
I should be glad to see you. The witness sal
he saw Elder for the first time in New Orlean
on the I'd of May. Elder said he was fro1
9 Washington. getting up testimony for Spoford
{ Elder had room in the custom house. III
because Elder had not previously believed wit
T ness was for Spofford. By this means witnei
y was posted as to how the parties were maxim
up af6davits. Elder told him Cavanac was gel
ting up affdavlts for Spofford to show thel
was no quorum in the Packard legislature til,
q elected kellogg. Elder said he wanted onl
five to break quorum, and there was the p}al
and further, if they could succeed in breakir
the quorum Kellogg would be unseated befo
!. this session was over. Murray sa
that by testifying for Spofford they could G
= all they wanted. Cavanac said that spoffo,
1t those who stuck to him. [Laughter.l CAV
st nae wanted an affidavit similar to the one wi
f. ness gave Elder. The witness gave the nam
4, of four men with whom to break the quoru1
TT including Murray and himself.
ut @. Was there not another man? A. Y,
IL but they did not have 80 much confidence
d him. laughter. They were depending
Id the fat hat Thomas was not there. Watts
e. was to personate Thomas. The witness did 4
know whether or not Thomas was present