New-York tribune., 1878-12-04
EXTRACTS FROM THE TESTIMONY.
A FEW ILLUSTRATIONS or THE PRESENT DOCbLL-
HEADED SYSTEM.


EXTRACTS FROM THE TESTIMONY
A FEw ILLUSTRATIONS or THE PRESENT DOUBLE
HEADED SYSTEM.
TBY TELEGRAPH TO The TRIBUNE.l
WASHINGTON. Dec. 3.-Ihe Joint CongieSsionai
Committee on the Indian transfer question met this
morning and heard the testimony OF General W. l.
Sherman and Quartermastor-General Mcgs.
General Sherman desired il TO be understood that
he appeared as a witness, duly summoned ana
sworn and that he was not volunteering ms teSu-
monv He did not appear as an advocate OF Tue
transfer of the Indian Bureau to the War Depart
1nent. and could say for the Army that 1t would
Weld ready and cordial support to any
plan that the committee or Congress mighU
adopt The management of Indian AFFAIRS ne
said. was in the hands of the War Department
for a period of sixty years from 1888 to 1919;
since that date for thirty-nne years it has been IN
the hands of the Interior Department each depart
men therefore can be tested by its acts instead Of
by its professions. he himself would not venture
Ia make the comparsOn but would limit himself to
A few examples.
The General had prepared himself with notes, from
which he read and which he submitted to the COM
nittee. an abstract Of which appeared in to-days
TRIBUNE He said:
During the last wear, over 500 cases have passed IN
Yhc usual way through the Office OF tie secretary OF war
relating the care, supply ana protection oI Tue In IN
adjudication Ot irOCblr5 more leos SeEF
0us seven or eight of these were cited as show,
inc their general nature and the roundabout process
of "o iiastTafion is that OF the Indau Agency at
TularOsa. New-MexcO. The agent wrote volunlnous
TO request ne Secretary of War TO order detachment
OF soldiers to put STOP TO the selling Oh Whshey 70 we
request was complied with, anu detachment OF nteeh
men was sent by jOr Dudley from Fort stanton Iof
9lan CommisslonG[ so % orTe yT he same 10 GEN
tD
he to General Pope, who finally ordered MAYOR DanG5 I5
10 send his troops all to put stoptO the sae o ule
whskey in little village IN New-MeXico
The General further cited the Fort Sill Reserva-
sion case as illustrating the necessary conflict IN
the present double-headcd machine of Indian
management" lie said;
Secretary schurz in recent communication concern
iug ths reservation admits that to soil and water
h good reservation, Dut argues tat the water Is gOOu
above but below Fort Sill, GeiuG de-
~ For Sl in ls7l and 1876 and ar botn these dates
the Indians were eucamped above the Iort ana scn has
ALWAYS been the case, as 1 Informed. The agency
Gudings and schooihOuse are few hundred yards be-
low. but the Indians are never there except 10 ara"
ther ratOns, which they carry 10 thelr camp apO'e
The General submitted map, with full descTp-
tions of the soil and climate of the Fort Sill ReSer-
walton, as a part of his testimony.
THE ORIGIN or THE PEACE POLICY.
In reference to General Grants so-called "peace
policy" with the Indians. General Sherman re-
marked that in his discussions of the Indian ques-
ton he was often met with the assertion that Fres-
ident Grant, a military man, who had had some
experience in Indian management, was the author
of this policy. He continued:
That policy, II it meant TO keep the Indians In
peace was wrong one for we nave lad c9nSIan. Tars
with the Indians since 1859. The previous year 0Sn-
throwing out OF active service about o0o e1bede5ceq
was from the officers retained IN service on
the unattached list 10 select all the superlntcndehts
and agents for the Indian tribes Ny understanding
that time was that tins was construed taking the civil
patronage from Senators aud others VINO wanted H. Ior
at the uext session, Congress enacted law which made
The Army officers II sucH positions equVa-
lent resignation The consequence was thai these these
officers mad 10 be Tepaced by civilians ana General
Grant concluded that he would not offer the patronage
70 psres who wanted It but TO distribute II among
This was known as the Quaker policy, because some
five or more agencies, that OF Fort Sill among tue
number were given tue Quaker Society, and the rest
divided among the MetbOdsts EpiScOpailanS CalhOucs
while may have been good politics. 1t was ana Is
The true pohcy Is To mobilize each tribe
possible aud by oEce and persuasion e2n6ipea compel
time already passed when the Indians can 1--we by
hunting
In answer to a.question by General Hooker, the
committee, concerning the recent outbreak of the
Cheycunes, General Sherman replied:
7,sana no personal knowledge Of the facts, but my
imucon from reports and records on file Is this: That
certain NOrthorn Cheyenes mat were Years ago
south Kansas restless. as
all lnaon' usually are asiv anG 'n or C2DtIeu TD and %
tbey dnaliy started to 90 to the region IRON which
they came Those who are familiar with the Western
prairles know how easy 1t is by winding about and
travelling by night 10 escape pursuit. and IN tLelr escape
they reached OF the NlObrara among the sand
hills where they were all captured. Ihey are now
being taken to some point III kansas, ioT
the state authorities TO select TIE murdereTs
from among them Tor punishment q, dor IN
ennes, who found some OF their od oalng grounds oc-
cuped by the MeuuOnItes who PROBABLY Dad never be
IOre Indian and knew little OF Them until they
feit thelr tOmahaWks. They killed tory OF hiy Of
these settlers and for tbs crime the ngleaders nave
would not like my self to sit in Judgment the
widely differing reports as made by the cyl agents
and by the military IN these transactions
They never agree one looking from tne front
ing from totally varying standpoints. The military
officers say that these Indians had Tor years oeen com
would rather 90 out on the war-palh and be Killed
Gsn 70 S Se % Other bSSd assert that thew had as good
provisions those who remained behind.
REASONS FOR THE TRANSFER.
In reply to a question by Mr.. Boone as to what
the result would be if the transfer should be made
to the War Department. and whether under chat
department affairs would be so conducted as to
avoid most of the Indian wars, General Sherman
said:
NV Judgment is that we could foresee the cause OF
war and mn 1t at the bud. that Indian would be
very rare II not entirely at an end on anything like
o1owing to the circuitous route that communca-
tobs take from the Indian agentto get 70 the
Indian office here, hrst going 10 the indian C0mmls-
sODer TO Secretary OF the Interior, thence TO
the War Office thence 20 the Commanding General etc.
II authority should be given 10 the officer in
command even there should oe an outbreak, would ne
not be able comprehend II more clearly and earlier
and thereby stop 1t more readily and efecuallA
General Sherman-Yes. The country is divided into ten
military departments Each military department is CON-
mander by Bfgadier General Of experience, TO whom
would commit absolute power to do whatever might
do IL were personally present, Of course holding him
responsible The nearest post commander seeing trouble
come directly responsible 10 check it. II unable
10 do so by the force his command.
be would call upon his department commander, and
he would bound Dy honor and Dy usage TO every
soldier he had, and generally he would haye enough 10