The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1878-12-08
Views OF a Survivor CT the
Candy Massacre.
HOW THE MOD0CS WERE iRRITATED
Testimony Of Indian Com
missioner Hayt.
THE QUESTION OF MONEY
Extravaganza of the Military and Economy
of the Indian Bureau.
WASHINGTON, Dec. Z, 1878.

WASHINGTON, Dec. 7, 1878.
The joint commission considering the question Of
transferring the Indian Bureau from the civil to the
military department to-day heard the views of Colonel
A. b. Meacham, at present editor of paper pub
lished in this city under the title of The Council Fire,
and expressly devoted to Indian interests. He
was chairman OF the Modoc Peace Commission and
since that time had given his entire attention to the
question to how the Indians could best be managed,
and is thoroughly convinced from personal observa-
tons that the only solution of the problem is in civil
izng them in order that they may support themselves
In his opinion of the 2G5 900 Indians not over
100000 Of them require the presence of any military
force whatever The Indians. he said. considered tho
military their enemy and would not, in his opinion.
yield to military dctation. If the Indians be
saved at all it must be through the teachings of
civilians rather than Of military men. the tone of
the army very grinding and humiliating to them.
In the past twenty-five years he has not known
where disturbances between whites and Indians have
occurred except through the breaking Of treaties by
the former.
A graduate Of West Point, he said, knew
nothing OF the practical use Of the scythe or of
building fences, &C.. which almost absolutely
necessary for an Indian agent. He
Indian who had friendly feelings toward the mill
tary. II men with practical ideas and good judg-
ment should be appointed to fill the positions of
Indian agents in the Of the transfer of the Blu
he did not consider that the transaction would be
injurious to the Indian race but it did follow that
such Of proceedings would be carried out To
deal successfully with the Indians required agents OF
sober, Industrious and enterprsing habits. In his
Judgment should the public lands be divided into
severalty among the Indians in five years time the
shrewd and greedy whites would have it all away
from them. An Indian cannot possibly hold his own
any time against the whites when the latter
clned to swindc. and such transactions would
tainly follow the settlement of Indians in severalty
under territorial government. He knew it to be
fact that civilized Indians were not DESTROYS Of trying
this experiment.
THE TROUBLE WITH
The trouble with the Indians on the lava beds, in
his opinion, occasioned by the military. The
Indians had agreed to meet General Candy and wit
ness under flag of truce Before the appointed time
arrived. however, company of cavalry drove of
Of the Indian ponies, thereby aggravatng them
and causing the fatal result which followed. Colonel
Meacham received seven bullets in his body at the
time.
VIEWS OF COMMISSIONER HAYT.
At the conclusion of his remarks Commissioner of
Indian Affairs Hayt proceeded to give his views on
the subject.
although" he said Secretary Schurz has fully
expressed my views on the subject. there a few
instances Of detail which desire to lay before the
Commission The first subject he treated was the
cost of army transportation compared with that of
the Indian Bureau. The former, he understood
amounted to $40oO,oOo, while it seemed incredible
that the amount of tonnage transported should cost
that amount. The transportation paid by the Indian
Bureau for the current for 1862 tons of freight
from the Atlantic boast fr 70 the Missouri River
is transported at the rate he thinks it would be
utterly impossible to call up such amount
General Meigs had stated ~ their annual payments
for this service. The whole cost OF transportation
for the Indian Bureau during the preceding year
amounted to $2l9OOO and that for the current wear
ring the purchase of beef said that during the
fiscal year had the army purchased the beef for tho
Indian supply the amount would have exceeded the
actual cost under present management $644 900. On
beef alone. he said. the rates paid by the Indian
81 ~ per 100 pounds less than those paid by
the War Department.
THE REGISTRY or INDIANS
Mr. Hayt then explained to the commission the
method Of asceraining the actual number of Indians
the several reservations. Each agent is required
to forward what is known weekly issue certificate
of the national registry of Indian tribes. Under the
former system II not difficult matter for agent
TO charge mp fslse rationsthat is to say. to make
requistion for greater number of rations than he
actually requred-but under the existing method it
is he says, utterly impossible for agent to defraud
the department. He considered that among tho
scvcnty-four Indian agents in the government
vice there are az many honest and capable men
could be found In the country. He spoke in
complimentary terms OF the military. and said they
had his profound respect: but he did not consider
them adapted to the requirements Of Indian agencies
He did not however, mean to that Indian agents
under the present administration had always been
Efficient but at the present time he felt satisfied that
the service could not be improved. He person
ally that the Indians opposed to the pro-
posed change and should IL be effected he predicted
outbreaks from the existence of general dissatisfaction
among the tribes. He thought il impossible. after
looking into facts. for the commission to conclude
that the transfer would be measure of economy.
He did not mean 10 contend that there
in the army capable Of managing Indian agencies
well as the present agents. but lie did contend that
the rigid military regulations would not permit them
turned over to the military IL would embitter the
whole Indian race against the United States govern
ment.
THE DUAL GOVERNMENT.
So far as he knew with regard to the so-called
dual government no question of authority had
ever arisen. as has been asserted. He detailed
at length accounts and circumstances relating the
various Indian outbreaks which are already matter
of history He recommended that the existing law
permitting military post traders to sell Intoxicating
liquors be annulled. liquor having y very democrat
izing effect the Indians. who to obtain it,
He said army officers allowed to disburse govern
ment funds without giving bonds, while Indian
agents who handled government money were invari-
ably placed under bonds that any loss to the gov
eminent by the misappror of funds by Indian
agents entirely insured and Indian agents. in his
mind. were rs honest M army officers In this con
nection he read statement giving instances where
frauds had occurred by army officers not under bond
thereby causing considerable loss to the govern
mcnt
lie explained at length tho difference between the
two departments War and lncror IN the inspection ut
goods. The cost per diem generally paid by tho Ind
ian Bureau was SlO whereas a high 1926 per
diem had been expended by the War Department for
the same service
INDIAN AGENTS DISMISSED.
In reply to a lengthy cross-cxamination by General
Hooker Mr. Hayt said that during his administration
there had been about fifteen agents dismissed for
Irregularities; about twelve had resigned and ten
or twelve had been removed for incfficiency.
Among those who had resigned he knew Of
none who deficient in their accounts.
Indictments had been found against four five
agents for apprcpriating government property to
their own use But of Indictment had thus
far resulted in conviction. Others awaiting
trial. however. He thought the fact that
army officer had troops NJ ms command had
tendency to make him act the master and the Indian
the slave and il the bureau under military ruling
military methods would necessarily follow. and mil
itary rule is u word and blow, and in many cases
the blow is given first. He thought the idea OF d.
vidng the Indian lands into seyera,ty good
and was Of the opinion that Indians could