The New York herald., 1878-08-18

thsv that these votes were degrading TO the
oS.aa,,on o the nouarosy ana he sorsS /. would
be the last vote OF the kind. The Chancellor OF
The Exehequsr had stated that there was
compact between the Crown ana Parliament at tho
bsginuing OF this roign. he should like 10 know
when, where and oy whom IL was made. He did not
tpink there any difference in asking for these
grants asking tor grant TO pay debts with. But
he did think that any Minister would propose to
the House q vote Tor such purpose In these times
GENTS DAY.
The time for proposing This grant was inopportuns
In the highest degree as tns condition oi the work
bad He ventured to say that thousands and tens Of
thousands were struggling to exc out subsistence on
less than twepence day Tor osch head OF tho Iamy.
Hs knew something OF America, and he did not believe
that the sv servants there paid such high saa-
riss as were paid IN thus country.
Colonel North, one OF the conservative members
for Oxierdshrs, followed with truly conservative
those Of the radicals who had preceded him.
AN INSULT TO THE QUEEN.
He said he had been member oil the House during the
time when several votes tor the royal family had
beer proposed and on all those occasions some hall
dozen members had divided the House against them,
had prevented .hose who desired to do SO from
yursng unanimous answer TO Her MsJestys gracious
message. An honorable memoer now had opposed
the vote ana had proposed an anendmsnt which was
little short OF an anront 10 the Queon
Amid cries OF ''Oh, ohl" from ehe liberals, Mr.
Plimsel order and said he knew OF other
way than that which hs had taken OF opposing the
biiI ana that no offence was intended by it, Colonel
North, resumiug, SAID be dissentsd altogether from
the views oil tho honorable nember Tor Stafford he
did believe that CLASS in the country, from
the lowest to the highest, looked at the regal family
otherwise than with love and affection He hoped
that the House would return answer 10 the mes
sage large majority as 1t possibly could on this
roya tawily who was deserving Of the RESPECT and
confidence of the country.
QUEENS CASE.
SirJ McKeDna said that the compact made be-
tween the sovereign and Parliament at the beginning
OF the reign was clear. An act was passed which
lament That act was the and of the Queen, cap.
g and the preamble covered the cntire case, and by
the act Her Majesty unreservedy placed all the Crown
property In trust for nation return grants
by Parliament TO support the honor and dignity o the
Crown.
Mr.. jenkins, of sGiux's Baby' celebrity, followed
with speech In which he said he did not think there
was any indecsncy IN opposing tho oill and hoped
cameo OF this debate. There was excitement In The
country which could not be igDorod, and tnosc who
knew the working classes could say that was deeply
and largely entertained. He congratulated the gov
ornmenI on fading worthy occupation for members
Of The royal family and thou ht ha. nothing would
bo popular than the appointments lately made TO
the governorship oi the Dominion Of Canada, and
that " such appointments could DO moro frequently
there would DO less necessity for resorting 10
Parliament for grants OF money.
THE WORKING GLASSES AND THE ANCIENT MONARCHY.
Mr. Forster, tho liberal member for Bradford. said
he did not pretend 10 speak on behalf of the work.
ingmen, but his experience went 10 show that there
was strong feeng in tho country among ali classes,
and quite as uch among tho working classes any
other, that upon the whole ancient mon.
keep-(checrs THAT there was no desire 10 change It
Tor for what he believed
be u far greater danger, imperialism. (Chesrs.)
With that feeling also another feeling which
naturally belonged generous and sensible people,
viz, that were to have monarchy II should be
kcpt up in state betting it, Hear, hsar!' Tho civil
list aud the allowances to the Queen and the royal
family OF this country were small as compared with
those of the monarcns OF other great count ries--
small as compared with what our former kings and
queens had had and small also IN comparison with
tho great wealth and tho scale OF living 10 this coun
try. rhe present distress that existed had been al
luded TO-
AN rSFiNITEsMAL burden
The House quito OF II and OF tho necessity
Of economy but surely his honorable friend could not
suppose that this sum which they were voting could
have the most inupiesmal effect upon the burdens Of
tho people, IL would be playing with words TO say
that the present commercial depression was a reason
why the asked for should not be granted ii
there were other reasons for grantngit
Sir wilirid Lawson said he aid not know what pub
tic services the Duke OF Connaught had yet rendered.
alnougn he might yet DO many 10 the career that lay
10 vote fl5, 900 year for MIN because no had been
good enough TO come OF age and now they we're asked
to vote 10000 q year moro because he was good
enough to marry 1t must not be supposed that those
objected Inis objected TO the splendor Of
the throne beng maintained. Nobody was attacking
the monarchy; all that they said was that they be-
lsved enough money had been voted 10 maintain the
because the government refused to give them any IN
formation about when II was asked Tor. he did not
think the werkngmen were such good as the
House had old. Tor he astonished 70 the
indifference wD,ch they manifested toward tho mad
and m,schsvOus expenditure OF the present aud even
OF Tho last government. Ho had no sympathy with
right honorable gentlemen who went about the
try and taked-it might be At Bradiord-about ro-
trcnchmo ont aud reform and then came down TO the
House and mide enth usiastic speeches for votes OF
flo,0 900 year to q young man because be was going
TO DO married.
The right honorable member Tor Bradford said u
was oply small sum- No doubt Il was; but how
many branches would II be precedent forf A short
ago the tories could look at these matters Ia
very different way. When the vote was proposed by
almost to = man voted 10 cut down the sum which
proposed Thcre was nothing SAID then about It's
being an afront 10 the throne. This public money
was going TO be voted to n man VINO had given the
country no public service. and he would not be party
to such votc
Sir stafford Northcete the Chancellor Of tho Exche-
quer whom lay the burden OF supporting the vote,
aud said he had waited until every had
hissay The question upon which this matter turned
WAS what nature Of the am that made
Her Majesty had this fSs5 600 allotted 10 her as
It intended TO cover sverythnRS and wss intended
that from that time further allowance should be made
TO any OF the royal familyS In former times tbe
civil list was bascd different arrangement from
that which now prevailed In the early Gays OF the
cvii list there were large hereditary revenues in the
POSSESSION OF the Crown and votes were made to q
separate civil list out OF which the made GER
tain payments. He paid tho judges, the ambas-
sadors ana also other charges which had since been
taken oil tho hands OF tho sovereign and placed
upon those OF Parliament. The annuitcs ana pen
sions granted either TO the royal family to other
persons all fell upon the civil list, and from time 10
time Parliament made grants aid civil list to
enable the Grown TO keep up those pensions and an
nuitics The matter was new, however, upon diff
isrent footing At the beginning OF the reign OF
tered, and It was completed ut the besun ming OF the
reign oi Her Maj esty.
THE BARGAIN
But that settlement did not exclude applications
for other grants Tor within two three years Of that
settonen tho frst OCCASION Tor an application
Tor grant for annuity Tor tho Prince Consort. Ac
cording to the theory OF the honorable oaronet and
others That was perfectly wrong application. Wcl
either the civil list oi f3S5 ,O00 which gwen TO
tho Queen al the beginning of her reign IN exchange
for the hereditary revenues was intended TO support
the dignity and state OF Her Majesty under all
the circumstances oi her reign or It Was not
II IL a bargain and Tor all. and never 10
be altered taen there was no Jusncltiou Tor the ap
plication tor grant OF money Tor Prince Albert The
grant proposed in accordance with what un
derstood TO be reasonable arrangement; and " the
honorable baronet would LOOK back 10 the circum-
stances under which the Queens cvi list was settled
he would 1nd that on reference being made to the
fact that lower establishment proposed Tor Her
M"j'sty than for her predecessor, notice was taken
that she was In different position, because she was
at that time unmarried. When the marriage took
place tho proposal was made by the povernmeLt OF
the day to settle an annuity Of Est, 900 year upon
the Queens husband. The principle not
challenged; II was admitted that there ought