The New York herald. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1840-1920, 1878-01-20


and In part to the development OF higher moral sus-
capabilities The preparation Tor this change oil view
has not been any more within the Church than out
side OF IT,. The civilized world has grown In intei-
gence respect to the nature OF man and his rights
as individual and citizen, his necessities and la
pilites The notion OF government has been cleared
from barbarous elements; the conception oil justice
has been purified and elevated The whole framework
OF society has oeen atisast theory, exalted may
be said that, in the sncient days, mankind had
rights that their governors bound respect but
In modern times rulers and presidents have rights
except those which are conferred upon them by the
governed. complete revolution, therefore. has
been established; the divine right is not with the
king out with his subjects The indirect influence OF
this upon theology mas been immense as Il runs
through every department OF thought. Men have un-
OF rcasoning-unbeknown, perhaps, to themselves
has entirely changed. Dogmas that once were full Of
the sap OF iaith have withered and hang upon their
boughs like the last years leaves upon tue oak and
the beech trees. This does not invadate moral gov
ernment. but places It upon higher ground II does
apnhale the doctrine OF retrbution Il Spiritual
IL and ennobes It, II does not take away tho mo-
lives OF discussion from evil and persuasion TO good;
It only renders them tar moro effective There eau
be no greater danger to the rdiu'ous world than
have their faiths 10 the form OF dried up dogmas, and
TO have their real and conscious lite uttering con-
tinual protest against them.
PRIMITIVE BELIEFS.
Q. Do not scholars still insist that the New Testa-
ment teaches rho doctrine oil the endless suffering Of
the finally mpenitentY
Mr. BEEcnxk No; very great change has ,akon
place In tnat respect II has been shown that during
the rst 400 years tho three theories Of restoration
OF annihilaton oil the wicked ana OF the eternal pun
lSnmout
primitive Church, and that no mans orthodoxy was
called In question on that ground Of the nrst SIX
schools Of theology II has been shown tina.
mapkind and 1t has also been shown that these very
schools comprised tho missionary and revival men OF
that age so that the energetic portion OF tho primitive
Church, that spread divine truth were rcstoraonisls
That the men who wrote aud thought In the Greex
language and who lived nearest The times OF the
apostles did not consider the New Testament as
Teaching the hna, conscious suffering Oh the wicked
forms u strong presumption against tho accuracy OF
"A
cxegess also OF the test passages - very much
changed. and, though The battle stu rases around
many Greek phrases, IL Is hardly possible that ono
should not see the direction In which the conflict Is
gong.
O But men say II Is not SO much any single passage
as is tho drit and general spirit OF tho New rcsta
ment
Mr. BEEcHIR-That the general drift Of tho New
Testament is that sinful lilo aud character brings
into terrible peris 10 The future no one Denies or
should wish 10 deny. But that those porils arc pro-
cisely such as men have taught, and that they are
endless respect to each Individual who passes unre
pentant out oil liie cannot DO deduced from the gen
eral spirit Of the New Testament. teach that sin Is
both shame and disgrace in this lie and an ex-
ceediug peril IN tho life 10 come, and that there
clements enough OF fear up The consciences
oil who need the coarse stimuant OF lear to in
duce any moral reflection or reformation.
MATERIAL VS.. SPIRITUAL HEAVEN AND HELL
@ DO you not think u PLAN man, unlettered and
reading Tue Scripture. would derve from II the idea
OF iuture, eternal, conscious misery
Mr. BEKcHER-Yes; just as the old Jews naturally
inferred from the Old lestawe that tho Messiah
u u
ana yet they were wrong; just as the disciples be-
lieved that Jesus would como again their
lifetime and mat snsy SHOULD no. see death
physical ana literal sense. and yet they
wrong; just us many good men still believe in the
second ADVENT into thus world OF Christ, and OF the
transformation OF all society relations by the coercve
power OF HIS omn'potcncc. In short tho universal
tendency has been 10 matertaize tue Scripture; 10
create material nell and material heaven; to bring
to bear upon tho nenabie themes OF spiritual exist
euce the attributes ana laws OF time aud mattcr aud
rh0 q
within us' II Is not physical state; IS condition
OF the soul Tho Kingdom OF darxness asa spiritual
condition, and heaven and he'll are words which cover
the psy cnologc condition OF the universe. Plain
naturally tend to teralizc msteralizc tho figures
Of New testament all the worse Tor tnem, Tor the
Master declared, ''fhc words that speak unto YOU
A DOCTRINE SHOCKING THE MORAL SENSE.
Q Do you think there are great many ministers
who hold 70 the doctrines OF Unlversasn reslora-
tion, or annhation, VINO dare notexpress thens
Mr. BEEcnER-Not exactly 30. l hold that great
number vi most useful minister's arc occupy ing them
selves with the practical education OF their people, and
DO not pcstow great deal OF thought upon technical
theology, or those who Can profoundly concern
themselves there are two casses-nameiy, those who
are building system inc dynaslic thinkers, AMI
those who are studying simply the oducativc inau.
ences that human nature requires Those who hold
rigorous view Of endless punishment ana declare
that II Is fundamental doctrine mean thai u 10
fundamental 10 their SYSTEM that around IT centres
the doctrine Of SIN, OF ITS DESERT OF the necessity OF
an utonemenL l think their mlnds dwell upon IT,
therefore, It's relations to logical system, aud not
IN It's relation to the palptutng human soul. do
not believe that maLy men could calmly measure tho
nature oil single SOUL and us susceptibities 10 sui
icriug, and tho power Of Almighty God 10 create
suffering IN that soui, and OF continued exstonce
only tor the purposes oil suffering through illinablo
ages, forever ana forever, aud then multiply that soul
until there materials left on when inscribe
tho figures, until the swarming myriads dcy all
measurement conception OF the Imagination; then,
overhanging the mighty abyss, contemplate the
writing anguish, the screaming agony, the hdeous
and loaths0mc suffering, the brutal indigpities OF
sulphurous demons, the carnival oil animusm, aud
DO able to turn and utter the first words oil the
E,th Nat has, ,kxl..
aevated by saying that the penalties are not ma
terial anguish, but they tho torments OF
science, CT ANGUISH and despair While VIC revolt
at physical torment, tho refined and cultured
nature learns to estimate mental suffering us even
exquisite and moro horrible than mere bodily
torment; anu to tcach an eternity Of conscious mon
tai suffering, after all chance Or hope OF reformation
Is gone shocks that true moral sense which has been
created and educated Dy the example and tho spirit OF
the Lord Jesus Christ In short tho very nature OF
the atonement as an evolution. Of the interior lovo
nature OF co., condemns and destroys such u VISION
OF future useless eternal punishment nightmare
vision OF barUarsn.
A INDUSTRIOUS THEORY.
can conceive, therefore, how man may believe
IL simply an idea. In part OF system IL Is more
logical abstraction. But how look into tho
face Of dying cDild tho sweet daughter OF his hope
cut OIL without any evidence OF cnange; how one cum
look society aud that nineteen out OF twenty
arc not In those conditions winch his system OF the
oopy requires precedent TO heaven aLd suIvuon and
yet I'VE and be happy, CAT drink sleep laugh, jest,
drink In The light o the sun, the glory Of the spring
tiine walk IN rapture through summer and believe
this doctrine, canno, CONCEIVE. When look at II IN
tho Ugh. OF palptatng human life, II believed In this
doctrine every leaf would walt sigh, tho ground
would trcmble win the Imagined founders OF por-
dItion; | would be clothed IN sackcloth my head
wouId become with tho prophets "a fountain oil
tears;' II would stop all tho processes oil human
society; ~ would say 10 every man VINO entered upon
the marriage state, "fhou art barbarian, 10 bring
lie children under fearful perm risk !"
do believe that the reasou tho industries OF life,
the sanctties oil the household nor anything TINT
Is gracious and good could long survive real belief
IN these hideous doctrines.
EFFECT OF TIE DISCUSSION.
Q. What do you suppose Will be tho effect OF this
outbreak OF discussion?
Mr. BEEcHER-i think there will be o temporary
rousing up aud preaching Of The old iashonoi doc
Urine by many ciergymen and u Judicious silence by
even many more. but IL must DO borne In mind that
system OF questions and letters by religious
newspapers VIII ever be able TO reveal the secret
thoughts OF men. The changes that are going on,
quietly out surely, are not yet ripe think that
failing of from the old doctrines without Sec
ing their way clear 10 replace them with But
that which regard with peculiar Eopclulness Is tho
application oil tue best OF sacred
REORGANIZATION OF the scriptures and 10 an exam