The sun. [volume] (New York [N.Y.]) 1833-1916, 1878-06-30

tthtei 70 me- thAt unuer the new Administration
the NICHOLS Goyernment WIS TO DO recognized.
said TO- him did not see how the President
could could help recognizing and s2staining the
had been chosen by the Same votes and had tho
samc title He said he had been looking into
that. and there was no difficulty about II what
oyer. that he had asceriainCd that while tho
Returning Board cnnvassed the votes for Prcsi-
Dental electors, the votes Tor Governor were
c9nyasscd by ne Legislature So that the
electors and the Governor received their
tito from different sources replied
that all the returns wore tho re-.
turns established by the Returning Board
and there were no other electoral returns in the
state, and that the Legislature had canvHssed
the vote and declared Packard elected from
made any rcply to that ] then suggested an.
other difficulty to him that II Nichols and
Hampton were recOgn zcd. two or three Dom
ocratic senators would be tho result and we
would probably then have a Republican, hd-
ministration coming into power with Demo
craft" Senate. lie replied; there would he no
trouble about that II would be or had been ar
ranged to have Republican Senators from those
States; That IL all the conversation had with
DID You have any convcrsation with
senator Matthew'S after that A. saw him ut
Secretary Robeson's on the Tuesday hetor" the
an ot March and said TO him that | thought
Packard would be sacrificed hy that arrange
mont. and deserted for that policy, saying em-
pnatieally that IL Packard was not sustained |
would nuVcr maintain the honesty NJ the cleo
ton Of Hayes: That is an incorrect statement
however, for have constantly maintained the
honesty II his election, but that WIS my way "
asserting the fact that Il was not honest to take
the Presidency by the vote of Louisiana. and sell
out the Packard government before the ink was
hardly dry upon the electoral decision. which
counted Louisiana for the. Hayes electors. Mr.
Mctormick were present aud heard what |
said. Mr.; kasson tried TO Justify the policy
and Mr.. Evarts and Gen. Garfield said but little
Odd You aftcrward call ca Gen. Gar
heidi A.We told me Of a conference 81
room and I think he sail NJ Iohu EiliS ~
Gratis, aud there was also himself ana senator
sherman present. lie said that the object Of
the eonferenee was 70 see il some arrangement
mcnt could be abandoned. surrendered,
sherman seemed 10 be looking after some
way !, to arrange !, 50 that Packard
did not ask Mr. Garfield II h. bad onterod into
such an agreement, hecaus. did not then think
ii possible he would, hut ! have since become
satisfied that he did aud have said so. have
been informed that Mr. Garfield made some
memoranda concerning that interview and
should Ike very much To- SEQ II. because | may
have done him an injustice.
The Witness attention was then called TO the
telegram sent by G. c. .snifep. private secretary
Packard, saying that the President directed him
to state that he would no longer support the
would be withdrawn. and also stating that IL was
not his. purpose to recognize either claimant,
Q-Whcn did this order first see light? A.
HsL Sherman despatch 10 Gen. Augur. on the
you know whether Coy. Hayes and Gen. Shcr-
man called On President Grant? Al was ut
the Executive Mansion with Gov. Kellogg
Cabinet assembled on that day. and
carriage drove up and Con. sherman
and went into the Executive Mansion. and
wis aiterward informed had an interview with
Gen. Grunt for about half an hour. ! nfvrr
hear that the Snin"n DIES patch was received hy
Packard until the afternoon Of March = and
not until after tho despatch OF sherman 10
Augur wa Revived VIII say that my lny,,s-
order which Mr.. John Young Brown referred
To- when he said that Mr.. Charles Foster told
him that President Grant would issue TO Cen.
Augur instructions rs soon as tho electoral
Con. Thomas C. Anderson. ono ~ tho mem
hers 81 the louisiana Return NJ Board q sii-
fled that he was appointed tho MESSENGER 70
bring the certificates Of the electoral vote to
Washington. lie received the certificates from
Gov. Kellogg or his prlyai" secretary They
were taken out. OF tho safe in the Gov
ernor's Office and handed TO me sealed ON the
Dist of December. and arrived IA Washington
Wth th.m on sunday. the oath. Next morning
] called with the returns on Mr. Perry. the
President NJ the Senate. who told me they were
not ia form AS the certificate Of the electors
was wanting. | started for New Orleans that
night When returned 20 my hotel. thinking
that tho ccrti ncntc might he inside. | took my
Knit" and opened the end II the envelope and
look d 2 and law It was not there; eailed on
returns were not in form. and he referred nae TO
Mr. Clarke. his secretary. to have them cor
rec!ed. | explained the ma''or 10 Mr. Clarke
had r %%e them hem and h. Il then d" leit
me and went up stairs with thcm.. ON
he subsequent day the 2lth, | called on
Mr. Clarke and asked him IL the new certn-
Gates were ready. and he said they would be
rendy IN time. | was too fntigued 10 MAKE the
trip back 20 Washington, and Al my suggestion
Mr. Charles II ill returned 90 Washington with
them, turned over al the payers had and
Q.--You have been informed. suppose. that
some Of the signatures 20 the second certificates
were forged A.-ies SIR; have heard some
Of Mr.. Clarke's testimony on the subject.
The witness was shown the second set Of
certificates by the Chairman. and he stated that
Do y|u swear that you did not Aldo.
most positively none OF the signatures were
written IN my presence.
did forge thcmY A.-Nothing only what have
sr6n in tho newspapers Ia the effect that a coll
Tor Gov. Kellogg. did il: hut | know nothing
whatever about the transaction myself and did
n9t see Kellogg in the room while was there.
Mr.. Butter tuen examined IA" witness in re-
gard To- the manner Of preparing the cons IL
dated returns for the use Of the Returning
Board.
Odd you determine the result as 10 the
Governor before yon determined tho result as
to the Presidential ciecti@nt A.-No. sir We
called out the votes for electors and the votes
Tor Governor from each poll Mt the same time,
in the presence Of the visiting committees.
Q.-ThHn yOd had no knowledge Whatever II
what would be the effect ON the election by
throwing ont this or that parish until they were
all drawn OUT A.-No. sir. Wetook up parish
by parish. and acted on them and sent them 10
the compiling clerks without knowing the result
either Hs To- the Governor or Presidential elect
Ors until they were added m.
Odd none Of the Returning Board have
curiosity enough about the election OF Presi-
dent ~ the United States turning on the result
OF your lnbor- and judgment To make any calcu-
lations or Approximate statement in figures to
show what would he the result A.-Not 10 my
knowledge.
Q.-so that none 4 YOU eyer gave tho slight
est guess ~ 10 how yon were coming out
A.-N0t That ! NJ" aware Of.
Odd il not 'drn ont, in fact that Packard
had a very considerable majority over the Hayes
ciertorsY Al think not
=. Which e-otor had higher number of
vot than Puckard' Al do not recollect the
returns will show.
Mr.. Butler requested the witness to look into
the matter, and without conoludingthe eNdnllna-
l.. G. Dennis u Florida, RECALLED. said he went
Gen. Lew Wallace went with me and introduced
manner aud the President replied that he had
heard ~ me through Gov Noyes and Mr..
Chandler. and remarked that ! was one ot the
few men that this Administration could afford
To- take care Of. and asked me what | wanted.
! told him that ! did not know what | want
ed then. that ! was not prepared Tor that
question, but | would make M my mind
and let him know subsequently. In about
week had mad m nv mind that | Nanfeb the