Daily Kennebec journal. [microfilm reel] (Augusta, Me.) 1870-1975, 1878-04-13
Blaine and Thurman.

Senator from ONO while he was speaking; but
there is point upon which befote he leaves his
seat should be glad to have answer from him.
| understood the Senator, as ] did the Senator
from Vermont this morning, TO MAINTAIN that my
anne ndment if adopted would dive.t Congress Of
ali power over the corporations; that the power
| TO amend, alter, and r,pesl would be gone Did
| | so understand the Seuatol'
| Mr.. Thurman. Why. quoad the debt il is gone
Mr.. Blaine. Quodd the debt, but he Senator
| did not limit himself in that way when he was
>pesking OF IT.
Mr.. Thurman. did not. do not intend to
limit myself.
Mr.. Blame. Then, what want TO ask the Sen
ator is, where viii tia power be when the debt Is
| all paid W III the payment of the debt eXtnguish
the poweri Will the power to yer. amend, re-
| peal this charter be exuugulshed when the debt
| to the Government is finally and fully paid
| Mr. Thurman. Not the least bit of It,
Mr. Blaine. Then why where does my
anne udment interfere with the power'
Mr. Thurman. For this reason suppose
Mr. Blaine But the Senator did not make the
| least exception. lie made the assertion broadly
that my anne ndment destroyed the power to re-
| peal alter or amend.
Mr.. Thurman. | certainly spoke secundum sub
Jeetam mdteridn. as the lawyers say.
| Mr.. Blame. | thuk the senator will find that
the language he used does not justify that coLcu
sion.
| Mr. Thurman. The Senator asks me a ques-
| ton, but he will not give me a chance to answer.
| Mr.. Blaine Oh, will sit down and let the
Senator answer at length.
| Mr.. Thurman. | say that the amendment pro-
| posed bv the Senator would take away from Con-
gress all control these roads in aspect OF the
| Government debt for twenty years, except those
provisions which contained III the acts OF 1862
and 1864, and in this act, and that, therefore, no
matter what shall be the condition OF affairs here
| after, no matter how much their revenues should
increase and they might be better able to indem-
| nifty the Government and save their creditors, or
on the other hand, no matter what might be their
misconduct, our hands will be tied. | was speak
| ing of the debit but do not presume TO fol-
low il out to its consequences as the Senator from
| Vermont did this morning; but | do say that
| every word that the Senator from Vermont said
to the scope and effect of the endment, If it
were adopted, il worthy of the most serious
| sderaton of the Senate.
Mr.. Blaine. Then the Senator limits his remark
to that. Now, another thing. When the Senator
went on to describe with minuteness just how this
anne ndmeDt would operate he failed, as think, to
| keep his argument on all foufs. because after he
| had given the table from the expert in the Treas
ury Department showing that there would be
S36 900 600 left at the maturity of the bonds from
both roads he went on to say, "but we all under
rate the immense development of these roads"
| lie gives il as his opinion tha the development
would far outrun any of the calculations submt-
| ted. | agree with him. think myself.
think his bill takes sliding scale Of % per cent
of the net earnings that will far than pay the
debt to the governme nj within the time. A the
gumen ts have made heretofore have been based
upon the Senator's own calculation and his own
| figures. As had time myself to make any cal
| culstions, | was compelled to take those Of the
Judiciary Committee and was very W ing to do
so, because supposed they had been made with
care. But the senator takes occasion himself to
assure us after those calculations were given in the
last remarks he made. that the development of this
road still in its very Infancy he says, is to be so
enormous that il will far outrun any calculation
made upon it. | should like to PROFOUND this
query TO the Senator Suppose that you could lay
down to-day exactly this ground, that this company
shall pay every year enough to absorb the interest
and part of the principal and that right along
from now for the next twenty years there should
be enough paid every year to wipe out the entire
debt before It's maturity, would the Senator agree
to make that conclusive and final 9uodd the pecu-
mary obligation of the road.
Mr.. Thurman. tell the Senator would not
agree under any circumstances to suspend the
power of Congress over these corporations for one
day, snd If he would make the amount to be paid
into the sinking fund S. 600 900 year, or SlO,-
0OO,O year, would not agree to surrender the
power OF Congress.
Mr.. Blaine. Not over the debt
Mr.. Thurman. No, not over anything.
Mr.. Blaine. Then ask the Senator If these
railway companies would bring all the money
here tomorrow that is owed to the government
and offer II in payment, would he still insist on the
powerf
Mr.. Thurman. Certainly. We are talking of
the roads.
Mr. Blaine. Over the debt was speaking
solely of the debt. The Senator says that if they
would agree TO pay $4,000, 900 a year he would
not make a conclusive bargain as respects the
debt. 1t seems to me that weakens Il it does
not destroy the whole position of the Sena.
tor. 1t does seem to me, with entire respect for
the Senator, that he has seemed to place himself
in the position of the man in the story who WAS 80
] all salf IL.
he had mind to. The senator said if the compa.
MES would come here aud offer $40, 900 600 4 wear
he would not put provision in and say 1--WE will
not legslste on that as conclusive on the debt; we
viii not agree that we will not demand 81 | 900 900
next year hat Il the spirit of this legislation.
That IS the whole spirit of the Senator from Ohio
lie brings IN bill here, elaborstelv studied
thoroughly prepared. He demonstrates to us tn at
provisions will pay the debt within the time Nav
more, he says to Us the roads are 10 their very in
fancy, they will ouirun this far and far beyond
hen say TO the Senator do not let us have these
ram DADS here perpetuslly IN Congress. DO not
let us invite the presence of the lobby which so
dlsturbs the dreams Of the Senator from Vermont
Ley u' soy 10 me railroad companies that if you
Will do tins which will in good faith pay the debt
1t shall be final on that point. The Senator from
OHIO declares that there is case where he will
make such conclusion. Lest should have Dos
sby misunderstood him in the original argument
he tells us now that If the railway compapies come
here and offer 10 pay Sl0,000,000 a wear he would
not agree to accept the offer rs final and conclu-
,ve respecting the debt; he would not agree that
we should not Immediately demand ST. 600 900
per annum from the companies, though SIC, 0OO,-
900 per annum would pay the entire de at least
/ twelve years before it Is due.
such, then, Is the spirit in which this meas
ure is offered, and when they have pre-
pared 1t and we were vi ling to make IT a
hnaly II the companies will obey It and faith
fully comply with it, the Senator from
ONO says no. 1t seems to me that the Senator
puts himself in the attitude Of simply not being
willing to make any offer that he thinks Tie com
paniss would agreee 10 and live under A Sena-
! tor MIR Gordon suggests that should address
the Senator fI0m OAio question a, to whether
! $50 100000 year would ss'i,fy him 1t wonld
not Of course, because hat would take away the
immense privilege Of punching and worrying the
raroa d companies next year. Would the Seua
tor from Ohio give up the precious privilege of
punching, and knocking, and bsrrsing and pound-
ing, and twisting a railroad for the pittauce Of
s20 900 900 year to be paid into the II easury of
the Clited States Not he The Senator say. he
would rather lose it all be would rather lose
every dollar Of the debt, he would rather bury il
10 The depths Of the sea. than surrender the pow
erot Overt auling these railroads for a single year
And yet tie Senator told us only five years ago
on ths floor that there ongh to be an end 10 .this
tampenog vi b the subject Let US stop, said be
then. and not cave this thing at loose ends" let
us have hnsli'y with this question, let Us have